And some of us have to weigh up "costing extra but 100% getting what I ordered" vs "getting a 20% discount but also having to track down random stock from multiple different stores including paying shipping from multiple different locations with no guarantee that you'll ever find what you need".
All of which is to say: There's value in convenience.
Vehicles aren't new, they have been around forever in metal and are still widely available from new to used.
BT has a secondhand market that rivals GW secondhand and it's more centralized.
Battletech is FAR more friendly to proxies and 3d printing.
The amount of new fans (since the last KS) is probably outnumbered 2 to 1 by long time players. Sure, I pulled that out my ass, but who do you think carried the last KS? Long time fans/players.
I'm a psycho like HBMC and have triple digit numbers of BT vehicles.
Ahhhh, gotcha, it is based on your personal situation. That makes a lot of sense now.
Yeah, I've got a 3d printers and currently I have 1 plastic mech for every 3 resin mechs in my collection and will look to boost my vehicles with printed versions as well but I have absolutely no desire to go through the second hand markets and the proxying isnt really relevant beyond it is cool that they are happy enough to have card standees being used.
I have my answer so thanks for taking the time to respond.
I couldn't do it. Canceled my pledge. When I read the FAQ question that said "Catalyst tries hard not to undercut retailers. So if you are asking yourself why is the value of the ForcePacks basically MSRP, if you don't care about the swag, that is by design. If you wish to wait and purchase them from your local game store, awesome. We love you supporting your local store," it was all over for me. Don't need to tell me twice you don't care if I pledge.
The 4 and 5m goals seem a Bit anaemic for such a big funding jump.
I have two sides in my head just now. The generous side is thinking that all their senior staff will be busy with the launch parties and adepticon, and it is entirely plausible that they thought they would have a few days to finalise another set of post-2m goals.
The cynical side of me is thinking they are just drip feeding tiny slivers to see very carefully at what point the player base becomes mostly mollified.
Time will tell in a few days when everyone has had time to absorb the current situation and the honeymoon period has worn off.
I said my bit in the comments. Hopefully they'll listen if there's enough of this. #Justice4Kodiak worked, so maybe this will as well.
Wasn't #Justice4Kodiak what got my beloved Berserker cut from the first KS? Lame ass clan crap.
I couldn't do it. Canceled my pledge. When I read the FAQ question that said "Catalyst tries hard not to undercut retailers. So if you are asking yourself why is the value of the ForcePacks basically MSRP, if you don't care about the swag, that is by design. If you wish to wait and purchase them from your local game store, awesome. We love you supporting your local store," it was all over for me. Don't need to tell me twice you don't care if I pledge.
I reduced mine to $1 so I could post. They are making money hand over fist. I don't see them going back on that.
Justyn wrote: Wasn't #Justice4Kodiak what got my beloved Berserker cut from the first KS? Lame ass clan crap.
They cut a bunch of Clan stuff as well, not just the 'Zerker. #Justice4Kodiak managed to get those missing 'Mechs back.
The 'Zerker did not get invited to the party, sadly.
Justyn wrote: I reduced mine to $1 so I could post. They are making money hand over fist. I don't see them going back on that.
I have to do what I did last time and make my comparison Excel sheet comparing the two possible tiers (the $500 one and whatever the lower one is). I'm getting one of all the force packs (plus an extra one for a friend as the Black Python/Viper is one of his fav 'Mechs), but I'm going to do so in the way that costs me the least amount for the most amount, and "amount" doesn't include useless swag gak (no seriously: What the feth is a 'challenge coin' anyway?).
I'd be less annoyed if T-Shirts were a part of this. I wanted to get Davion and ComStar shirts, and a Wobbie shirt for a friend.
[EDIT]: The (entirely predictable) backlash to the backlash has started. Sometimes I'm not sure people understand what the word "entitled" really means...
They said that t-shirts were a headache on the last KS, and that was the reason they wouldn't be included in this one. so don't hold your breath.
I also hoped that plushies would be an add on, but my wish was squashed.
M.
Edit: Also supporting retailers seems like a joke to me. AFAIK there are no retailers in or near Osaka (maybe Tokyo????) and last time I went to Spain shops were permanently out of boxes due to restocks not happening.
I understand their reasoning, but their solutions to the problems they've discussed just create other problems.
"Having T-Shirts was a headache in the last process, so now they're on our website. Also, feth everywhere that isn't America, I guess! Anyway, back to 'protecting retailers'..."
Anyone have a picture of the 28mm Marauder next to anything so I can get a feel for its size? I'd like to know if it really is in scale to my Armorcast Atlas.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (no seriously: What the feth is a 'challenge coin' anyway?)
Generally a coin with military unit markings on it, used for things like picking up the tab at a bar- the challenge is called, and anyone who doesn't have their coin with them loses and has to pay.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (no seriously: What the feth is a 'challenge coin' anyway?)
Generally a coin with military unit markings on it, used for things like picking up the tab at a bar- the challenge is called, and anyone who doesn't have their coin with them loses and has to pay.
And if every does have a coin, the lowest rank loses, IIRC? Think they came up in NCIS at some point.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And some of us have to weigh up "costing extra but 100% getting what I ordered" vs "getting a 20% discount but also having to track down random stock from multiple different stores including paying shipping from multiple different locations with no guarantee that you'll ever find what you need".
All of which is to say: There's value in convenience.
Except that is demonstrably false.
Here is the quote from the Mercenaries Kickstarter:
Risks and challenges
Every campaign we hold a serious post-mortem to create a "lessons learned" document for future campaigns. Building off previous campaigns, we have hired a Community and Marketing Specialist to increase the quality of our communications. Other than that, the greatest risks we face are delays in China. However, after fighting our way through a pandemic and still delivering an amazing array of products in our last BattleTech campaign, we feel very confident that this one will fulfill as good or better!
This is required as legal text, and in the pledge it points out in EVERY Kickstarter the following information:
Backing isn't buying.
You're supporting ambitious creative work.
Kickstarter isn’t a store. We don’t guarantee projects or investigate a creator’s ability to complete them. It’s the responsibility of the creator to complete their project as promised, and the claims of the project are theirs alone.
So I don't know where the 100% comes from, you can't be promised 100% of what you ordered, you are promised up to 100% of what you ordered and unlike retail you get no compensation if you don't. You have no consumer rights on Kickstarter.
We need to hold Catalyst to the fire over same price, same product, but earlier than retail mantra. It is not the same sale if it is not under the same sales conditions.
I got every 'Mech I ordered. It's not false at all.
Orlanth wrote: So I don't know where the 100% comes from, you can't be promised 100% of what you ordered, you are promised up to 100% of what you ordered and unlike retail you get no compensation if you don't. You have no consumer rights on Kickstarter.
You're missing the point entirely. This is about comparison.
With the exception of one (Prodos' Aliens KS) everything I've ever done through Kickstarter has arrived - delayed as it might be in some extreme cases, even to the point where I swore off ordering anything from the companies involved ever again - and I have no reason to suspect that the Force Packs in this KS won't arrive.
When I talk about 100% getting them, I mean that they're all in stock, coming from the same source, at the same time, ready to go. These are already produced/in production. These aren't concept sketches and lofty hopes, with a wing and a prayer that they'll be able to produce what they say. These thing exist.
It's the other side of the KS coin - one side is a dynamic KS where things get added all the time, but this causes delays, and the other side is a KS where everything is set in stone from the word go, with stretch goals that unlock things that were going to be part of the KS anyway, and with no surprises or any real incentive to increase pledges... which is what thisKS currently is.
Compare to that to stores in my area, where one has two force packs in stock, another has 6 (different ones as well), and another stocks almost the whole range yet everything is out of stock with no ETA on new stock.
This is what I mean by value in convenience.
You can quote Kickstarter's rules all you like, but game companies use it as a malleable pre-order system, and it's been that way for years.
If the KS concept for this one would have been visible a day in advance, before pledging was possible, they wouldn't have made half the amount.
All the money was made from hype and FOMO and now that 90% of the people realise they are being ripped off, they begrudgingly cling to their pledges. Me included.
He'll, give me a trashbag with 50 random mechs and I'd be satisfied.
I went in big on the previous KS, so I'm sitting on a lot of mechs these days.
New KS? Sure, sign me up right away! More stuff, please!
But, I think that I've had an epiphany... I might have enough mechs, already...
Sure, there's new stuff that I'd like, but it looks like there's only one mech per forcepack that I'd want. I'm trying to be sensible, so it's not making sense for me to go crazy on this one - I'm dropping down to the base box; if I get that and a retail copy of the AS boxed set then I think that I'm done for my BT purchasing for the next 10 years.
Well, except for the Camacho's Cabelleros swag, I mean, that's totally cool!
So I'm not a huge battletech guy but after starting to play mechwarrior 5 last year I picked up a couple of Lance box sets to paint.
Looking at this kickstarter I don't see anything that makes me want to jump in. If I'm going to drop $80 on battletech right now I'd go buy the alpha strike starter set, and any of this new stuff will wait until its released at retail. I don't see the benefit of paying for it a year or more in advance.
Also the kickstarter page doesn't do a great job of showcasing the models, its really hard to see whats in those packs.
I got every 'Mech I ordered. It's not false at all.
I see where you are coming from but I disagree.
That was past tense, and anecdotal.
If you didn't get your mechs from a retailer, you can get your money back via the bank.
If Catalyst didn't deliver for any reason, you cannot.
The if remains because this is an investment, not a purchase.
Beyond that I will say that you are flat out wrong, because legally neither Kickstarter nor any content creator on the platform can legally compare their products to retail as if comperable. Kickstarter claims for its own legal protection that were are not purchasers but investors and forces each and every content creator to make similar commentary in their own words.
Now matter how you cut it, we cannot compare with retail especially on surity of delivery and consumer rights.
It is entirely valid to say that there is no 100% guarantee of product delivery via Kickstarter, Catalyst may make promises, but ultimately will be forced to agree with this statement because Kickstarter themselves want legal cover against any losses, which will not occur if projects are seen as store fronts.
Orlanth wrote: So I don't know where the 100% comes from, you can't be promised 100% of what you ordered, you are promised up to 100% of what you ordered and unlike retail you get no compensation if you don't. You have no consumer rights on Kickstarter.
You're missing the point entirely. This is about comparison.
Before we begin I will make the point that you are reiterating the argument of others, and appear to be in broad agreement that Catalyst should offer more.
we agree (correct me if I misinterpret you) that Catalyst are offering a poor deal compared to retail because it offsets 'convenience' of pre-purchase against lower prices. I am in agreement with your opinion on this, but also (as opoosed to instead) argue that the backing to retail purchase comparison is invalid anyway for other reasons
With the exception of one (Prodos' Aliens KS) everything I've ever done through Kickstarter has arrived - delayed as it might be in some extreme cases, even to the point where I swore off ordering anything from the companies involved ever again - and I have no reason to suspect that the Force Packs in this KS won't arrive.
I have been stung twice, and backed out of another games product before completion and avoided a scam. Once I backed a set of 6x4 game boards that fell apart. I got one of two sets of boards, there was an honst attempt at implementation. The second time I got burned backing a company making 3d printers. They made one update a month after completion than ran off with the money and closed the company. The company was ten years old and had existing product, so it looked (and technically was) legit. But they saw the writing on the wall so made a bullgak claim for a new 3d printer and ran the campaign just before folding the company. This must have been deliberate.
For the record Prodos is Archon Studio, though they like to deny it. There are two lessons for this. Prodos was not a scam company, they just fethed up the Kickstarter and dropped it, and their backers. Archon got wise and have not made the same mistakes. Same people though, so I have no doubt that if they did feth up big enough they would drop backers.
Hence this continued risk as there is no recourse if they do.
When I talk about 100% getting them, I mean that they're all in stock, coming from the same source, at the same time, ready to go. These are already produced/in production. These aren't concept sketches and lofty hopes, with a wing and a prayer that they'll be able to produce what they say. These thing exist.
Its a low risk investment that is true. Catalyst has been riding high since Harmony Gold got a well deserved kurbstomp, most of thoer problems are behind them, but the economy is unstable, and we dont know Catalysts true financial position.
Catalyst are in the same legal position as Prodos found itself, if forced to choose between supplying backers and other legally bound commitments we will be dropped. That is the advantage of Kickstarter, it bypasses the normal pitfalls of commercial borrowing. We can hope that Catalyst is not in the same financial position so the consequences of the same legal poistion do not raise thier heads.
I think this is the case, but I can never say 100%. In fact if we look back to Catalysts earlier attempts at miniatures releases when the 25th anniversaruy sey became the 30th anniversary set, can you honestly say that nothing can go wrong.
It's the other side of the KS coin - one side is a dynamic KS where things get added all the time, but this causes delays, and the other side is a KS where everything is set in stone from the word go, with stretch goals that unlock things that were going to be part of the KS anyway, and with no surprises or any real incentive to increase pledges... which is what thisKS currently is.
I agree. I made a similar point earlier, which has since been made untrue. It appears that Catalyst preloaded all their sculpts before the campaign launched, but have made so much money that they will be adding a new Support Pack at 4 million. They are keeping the new add-ons, the first genuine stretchgoal yet encountered, modest so sculpt and tooling time will be kept to a managable minimum, I read this to mean that fulfilment will not be delayed.
This is looking to be a very safe Kickstarter, but not 100% by any stretch not only because one should never say never but because third party problems with China and the US economy may flatten Catalyst indirectly. Now these third party problems which are coming (just shy of that 100%) could cause such problems that missing mechs will be the least of our worries. But if it doesnt we don't know which companies are exposed, it doesnt even have to be Catalyst, if the shipper goes under, after accepting payment, or the factory, or the materials supplier.
Compare to that to stores in my area, where one has two force packs in stock, another has 6 (different ones as well), and another stocks almost the whole range yet everything is out of stock with no ETA on new stock.
This is what I mean by value in convenience.
Ok, time for a bit of blunt.
I will in a round about way concede your point on 'convenience'.
But....
If convenenient means "retailing" your mechs a year and a half in advance, in this current climate, with zero refunds if the transaction fails, because it is better than trying to order them from a FLGS, that cant get stock because of serial incompetence somewhere in the distribution claim for even longer; well I would hate to see what 'inconvenient' means.
You can quote Kickstarter's rules all you like, but game companies use it as a malleable pre-order system, and it's been that way for years.
I will, you know and I know its a store front, but we do run a genuine risk. I got my Aliens vs Predator from retail, it is a reasonable game, though the aliens were feeble, inferior to colonial marines 1v1 in melee, yet die in droves to get there. I wonder if you ever got yours.
Kickstarter means: we can afford to be mostly bullish, but some days the bear gets you.
With the added risk should come reward, and rewards does not in my mind mean, or at least should not be limited to, bypassing the failed logistical network for retail product.
FWIW I went with the $150 backer since I am not greedy, I do not really need much to keep me happy and now I co own a store I can get whatever I need direct when it all drops, using the store card though we backed the $275 store deal which is actually pretty good for us, all 6 boxes will fly off the shelves.
Alright, so, having run the numbers for the Battalion and Regiment pledges, I come to a US$35-$40 difference between the two (in favour of the Battalion pledge) once everything is added on, factoring in all current achieved stretch goals. And also factors in getting two of the Clan Cavalry star.
It makes the assumption that the Objectives box is the same cost as the other vehicle boxes (of course I'm using free slots for all the vehicle boxes). It also assumes that the Legendary Mechwarrior II is the same cost as a Clan Star, and the Legendary Mechwarrior III costs as much as a vehicle box (again, using free slots, so kind of a moot point).
It does not take into account the fact that the Regiment pledge would net me an extra 4 Salvage boxes, as there are 4 IS Lances in the free slots.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (no seriously: What the feth is a 'challenge coin' anyway?)
Generally a coin with military unit markings on it, used for things like picking up the tab at a bar- the challenge is called, and anyone who doesn't have their coin with them loses and has to pay.
And if every does have a coin, the lowest rank loses, IIRC? Think they came up in NCIS at some point.
If everyone has one, the person who called it loses.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (no seriously: What the feth is a 'challenge coin' anyway?)
Generally a coin with military unit markings on it, used for things like picking up the tab at a bar- the challenge is called, and anyone who doesn't have their coin with them loses and has to pay.
And if every does have a coin, the lowest rank loses, IIRC? Think they came up in NCIS at some point.
If everyone has one, the person who called it loses.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mercenaries KS Salvage boxes are an US dollar more expensive than those on the CGL webstore. That makes this KS a even poorer value. I did pledge at Veteran, but that can be cancelled.
@ Platuan4th. Thanks for the CC link. I did read up on CCs before when a different KS I backed offered them as a bonus, but it did not stick. {Also, I've no idea where I put the damn thing. It's in the house somewhere ... Maybe in a boardgame as a first player token. But this is why I want functional KS bonuses, and not swag.}
H.B.M.C. wrote: I literally didn't realise Challenge Coins were a real thing.
I thought they were some Clanner bull gak.
A gentleman from my church passed away a few years back, he had some physical disabilities, but worked for the US government and had earned some Presidential challenge coins, which were displayed at his funeral. They can be awarded to individuals for exceptional performances in their jobs, it’s not just about who buys the drinks, but can be seen almost like service medals. Lots of different challenge coins.
Ancestral Hamster wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mercenaries KS Salvage boxes are an US dollar more expensive than those on the CGL webstore. That makes this KS a even poorer value. I did pledge at Veteran, but that can be cancelled
It's called inflation. The new Mercenaries Salvage Boxes will cost $8 when they hit retail. It's the same reason if you go into your account where it says 'Configure reward' you will see the add-ons they have Clan Invasion ForcePacks at $25/$30 and the Mercenaries ForcePacks are at $30/$35. Prices have gone up for the new products.
Ancestral Hamster wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mercenaries KS Salvage boxes are an US dollar more expensive than those on the CGL webstore. That makes this KS a even poorer value. I did pledge at Veteran, but that can be cancelled
It's called inflation. The new Mercenaries Salvage Boxes will cost $8 when they hit retail. It's the same reason if you go into your account where it says 'Configure reward' you will see the add-ons they have Clan Invasion ForcePacks at $25/$30 and the Mercenaries ForcePacks are at $30/$35. Prices have gone up for the new products.
It's called Recession.
They're asking people to drop big money in a time they SHOULD be saving it and they aren't offering value for that money.
The newest update is every 2 million the KS goes up, they will put in another ADD ON Forcepack, nothing FREE to increase Value.
They haven't raised prices on the older product. They're not doing a GW raising all of their prices, even if the old ForcePacks now cost more to produce but I guess that's not good enough.
So here's our new plan. Every $2 million starting at $4 million we are going to unlock a new ForcePack for add-on. We have 2 ForcePacks that are 70% designed, but each one will extend the time of fulfillment to put the work in. All said and done, we're talking 2-3 more months for up to $8 million on the Kickstarter. ($8 million is going to be REALLY special, but we're ironing out some final details before I can announce what is in each of the ForcePacks).
Additionally, every $2 million starting at $3 million means more plastic for you. More Salvage Boxes and ForcePacks.
So I'm here to fill you in on the next couple of stretch goals, and we've got some bigger plans I'll be releasing within the next few days.
$4 Million: a new Battlefield Support Forcepack will be unlocked for Add-Ons AND all backers will receive the "Tales of the Bounty Hunter" digital shortstory anthology.
$5 Million: Veteran level backers and above get a free Salvage Box. Battalion level backers and above get a free salvage box and a free ForcePack. ALL backers will receive free audiobook files of a novella (to be decided soon).
These are a baseline - we might add more to these or our higher levels over the next few days (we have some calls to make to vendors to see if they can bring these ideas to life, and we have to see what Anthony can actually sculpt for us in a reasonable amount of time to fulfill).
Ghaz wrote: They haven't raised prices on the older product. They're not doing a GW raising all of their prices, even if the old ForcePacks now cost more to produce but I guess that's not good enough.
I keep hearing this cost more to produce but the just released Mercenary Forcepacks can be purchased right now for 22.49 USD from online US retailers; like how much mark up is going on to get to the "new" $30 MSRP? I assume retailers with the recently released packs are making a profit selling them at 22.49 still, so what is the actual cost to produce I wonder? Like 15 bucks a force pack? 20? With the numbers of the packs needed for the huge KS, doesn't the price per unit to produce go down not up typically?
Just curious and following along with the KS to see where it goes before I make a final decision on backing....
Ghaz wrote: They haven't raised prices on the older product. They're not doing a GW raising all of their prices, even if the old ForcePacks now cost more to produce but I guess that's not good enough.
I keep hearing this cost more to produce but the just released Mercenary Forcepacks can be purchased right now for 22.49 USD from online US retailers; like how much mark up is going on to get to the "new" $30 MSRP? I assume retailers with the recently released packs are making a profit selling them at 22.49 still, so what is the actual cost to produce I wonder? Like 15 bucks a force pack? 20? With the numbers of the packs needed for the huge KS, doesn't the price per unit to produce go down not up typically?
Just curious and following along with the KS to see where it goes before I make a final decision on backing....
ACD Distribution has the Northwind Highlander's ForcePack at $29.99 while Barnes & Noble has the Eridani Light Horse ForcePack at $29.99 as well. If an online retailer wants to sell them for a lower price (and profit margin) then that's their right and a common modus operandi for them.
EDIT: Prices for the upcoming Proliferation Pack ($44.99), UrbanMech Lance ($29.99) and Snord's Irregulars Assault Lance ($29.99)
Ghaz wrote: They haven't raised prices on the older product. They're not doing a GW raising all of their prices, even if the old ForcePacks now cost more to produce but I guess that's not good enough.
I keep hearing this cost more to produce but the just released Mercenary Forcepacks can be purchased right now for 22.49 USD from online US retailers; like how much mark up is going on to get to the "new" $30 MSRP? I assume retailers with the recently released packs are making a profit selling them at 22.49 still, so what is the actual cost to produce I wonder? Like 15 bucks a force pack? 20? With the numbers of the packs needed for the huge KS, doesn't the price per unit to produce go down not up typically?
Just curious and following along with the KS to see where it goes before I make a final decision on backing....
Don't let Ghaz bs you too much. The IS Pack are 24.99 MSRP and the Clan are 29.99 and yes, the newest ones are all 29.99. Vehicles are 34.99 MSRP.
So technically only a small handful of the IS packs are technically raising in price, the rest are not.
Typically the discount from Manufacturer (CGL) down to Retailer (your FLGS) shake out to between 43% and 47% of MSRP. So your FLGS pays, on average, @13.50 for a 29.99 MSRP pack.
The Distributor takes their piece out of the remaining 16.49 and the Manufacturer gets the rest. So if you buy them from CGL through the KS, like they want (because Randall Bills cares about your FLGS), CGL will get almost double what they would if you waited for Retail.
CGL will get almost double what they would if you waited for Retail.
This is a far more likely reason they are running the KS the way they are. It is win win for them. They get to claim the moral high ground, and make more money. Given Catalysts track record where money is concerned I know which one of those two reasons I believe is the more motivating one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I literally didn't realise Challenge Coins were a real thing.
I thought they were some Clanner bull gak.
A gentleman from my church passed away a few years back, he had some physical disabilities, but worked for the US government and had earned some Presidential challenge coins, which were displayed at his funeral. They can be awarded to individuals for exceptional performances in their jobs, it’s not just about who buys the drinks, but can be seen almost like service medals. Lots of different challenge coins.
The tradition started with the drinks, but a collector's community built up around them(I have a number my self). Being given one by the president or superior officers isn't so much seen like service medals, but as personal recognition by that person. In fact, the whole giving of a coin is specifically meant to be hidden in a handshake and not as a public thing like a service medal. If you read through the various etiquette guides available, that's mentioned.
CGL will get almost double what they would if you waited for Retail.
This is a far more likely reason they are running the KS the way they are. It is win win for them. They get to claim the moral high ground, and make more money. Given Catalysts track record where money is concerned I know which one of those two reasons I believe is the more motivating one.
We don't live under communism, no problems with Catalyst making money, its how they make money. This campaign is so greedy it leaves a bad taste.
Update number 10 doesn't look right. So the answer to people asking for more free stuff is that if we give them more money they will grciously allow us to buy unfinished prodcut, but that due to the need to finish it delivery time will be pushed from 2nd quarter of 2024 to 4th quarter (possible delays not accounted for).
Do they want more money, or not? I dread to think what will happen if we reach 8 million and get the special surprise. Do they take split the pledge in 3, and send it at a random time then?
Seriously this update looks more like discouragement to keep pledging than anything else.
Miguelsan wrote: Update number 10 doesn't look right. So the answer to people asking for more free stuff is that if we give them more money they will grciously allow us to buy unfinished prodcut, but that due to the need to finish it delivery time will be pushed from 2nd quarter of 2024 to 4th quarter (possible delays not accounted for).
Do they want more money, or not? I dread to think what will happen if we reach 8 million and get the special surprise. Do they take split the pledge in 3, and send it at a random time then?
Seriously this update looks more like discouragement to keep pledging than anything else.
M.
You did read the next paragraph?
Additionally, every $2 million starting at $3 million means more plastic for you. More Salvage Boxes and ForcePacks.
So at $3 million, $5 million, etc. Veteran level backers and above get a free Salvage Box while Battalion level backers and above get a free salvage box and a free ForcePack.
The 3 million extra pack/box was already in place, and the 5 million freebie is from update number 9. The only change is that the 7 million mark now copies the 5 million one. So nothing new, or relevant to me.
What's relevant, and why I wrote my post above, is that if we give them more money we are looking at a delay on fullfillment. A delay for backers, and a delay for stores. I, for one, do not want my new toy to be delayed to Xmas 2024 or even 2025.
So here's our new plan. Every $2 million starting at $4 million we are going to unlock a new ForcePack for add-on. We have 2 ForcePacks that are 70% designed, but each one will extend the time of fulfillment to put the work in. All said and done, we're talking 2-3 more months for up to $8 million on the Kickstarter. ($8 million is going to be REALLY special, but we're ironing out some final details before I can announce what is in each of the ForcePacks).
I will grant you that I misread the 2-3 months part as in for each additional force pack. But delays will happen, I don't want extra delays due to something that I'm 80% sure won't benefit me as the packs I'm interested are already in the pipeline.
zend wrote: Clan Invasion's $150 tier gave you all of them, plus a shirt and custom dice to match your faction choice.
Shirts are in the Catalyst Game Labs store so no need to waith for a Kickstarter if you need a new shirt, as are dice which can actually be used as dice (unlike the misshapen so-called 'dice' from the CI Kickstarter).
Just finished watching the interview with Anthony Scroggins. They will be moving directly into working on the faction-specific ForcePacks to be released alongside the corresponding Force Manuals. It also sounds like each faction may have era-specific ForcePacks (e.g., Davion would have Clan Invasion and ilClan ForcePacks, etc.).
Ghaz wrote: Just finished watching the interview with Anthony Scroggins. They will be moving directly into working on the faction-specific ForcePacks to be released alongside the corresponding Force Manuals. It also sounds like each faction may have era-specific ForcePacks (e.g., Davion would have Clan Invasion and ilClan ForcePacks, etc.).
I think we should consider that delivery will invariably be delayed whether they add stuff or not, but this at least gives them an excuse.
It'll be cool if it hits $5 million and I get another Salvage Box, and then perhaps have everyone start asking if we still get to keep it when the total threatens to fall back below that.
zend wrote: Clan Invasion's $150 tier gave you all of them, plus a shirt and custom dice to match your faction choice.
Shirts are in the Catalyst Game Labs store so no need to waith for a Kickstarter if you need a new shirt, as are dice which can actually be used as dice (unlike the misshapen so-called 'dice' from the CI Kickstarter).
So long as you're from the USA, you're right. Otherwise, buying from the Catalyst store is a non-starter. They wanted $150 to send me a premium mini to Europe.
zend wrote: Clan Invasion's $150 tier gave you all of them, plus a shirt and custom dice to match your faction choice.
Shirts are in the Catalyst Game Labs store so no need to waith for a Kickstarter if you need a new shirt, as are dice which can actually be used as dice (unlike the misshapen so-called 'dice' from the CI Kickstarter).
So long as you're from the USA, you're right. Otherwise, buying from the Catalyst store is a non-starter. They wanted $150 to send me a premium mini to Europe.
So actually, yes, there IS a need.
Plus 21% VAT, and whatever Correos decides to extort from you for the priviledge of paying the VAT. Catalyst is totally a no go outside the US. (Same to Japan is 110$, just checked)
I don't mind the delay, it seems like a hollow threat on KS, as pretty much any KS ever was delayed by several month or years. I don't expect timely delivery anymore. So 2-3 months more seems neglectable.
The extra force packs are direly needed, that was a good move.
Right now, at batallion level I get around 260€ retail price worth of minis for 275$ plus about 100$ of VAT and shipping. As I don't care about stickers and posters, the free forcepacks and salvage boxes make all the difference.
No idea how this works out for our friends in the US that get stuff for very low retail prices anyway. Seems like a pretty bad deal for them especially...
Hmm. Seems to be going in The right direct though. On the main page, the 5m stretch gives out a free forcepack to Company and 2 forcepacks to battalion. Update 11 seems a bit less sure on that though.
The names don't really mean anything to me - aside from the Hetzer, in historical/WoT context - but the Von Luckner name amuses me
They are all classics from 3025 and 3026, which with the original 3050 clan mechs are by far the most memorable assets in BattleTech.
Von Luckner was in the original 3025 book as a sample advanced heavy tank, it has a well rounded arsenal and weighs 75 tons. In requires a fusion engine so is expensive.
The other three are from 3026
Bulldog is the standard 'laser tank', in the Inner Sphere tankls follow two patterns, simple cheap tanks powered by oil burning engines, they tend to only mount auotcannon and missile racks. If they do has a olaser as the Bulldog does they need to carry a lot of gadgetry to support it, so overall the tech is crude cheap and mass inefficient.
The Hetzer resembles the WW2 tank of the same name, is a wheeled assault gun with a long history of being manufactured with the cheapest materials and the most shortcuts. This does not effect its functionality in the rules, but in the background a crew assigned to a new Hetzer will spend the first few months getting the vehicle servicable. It has decent armour and is equipped only with an AC20 in the front. It is unpopular with crews being a deathtrap, but popular with players because it is the perfect ambush piece and is a very memorable design.
The StrumFeur is a heavy missile tank, it is heavier than the LRM carrier and has fewer missile racks, but makes up for this with armour, lots and lots of armour. It was a 'recent design' in 3026 and was intentded as a survivalbel missile support vehicle. It is frankly overinsured as vehicles die to crits not armour loss. We dont see it often and while remembered it didnt make the shortlist of vehicles to add to computer games, it is a good addition as its armour values are wildly high, offering a change in gameplay.
Overall it is a good force pack. I will be wanting at least one. I would however have preferred a swap out for the Hetzer, including another 'quality tank' like the Patton/Rommel instead. The Hetzer deserves to go into a militia support pack for cheap vehicles like J Edgars, Scimitars, Saladins, Savannah Masters, Scorpions or Strikers.
Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Flinty wrote: Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Typo ? 9 total ForcePacks (6 standard + 3, if we hit 5M)..
Watch the pledge levels please and the stretchgoal lists.
The physical copy of Sun Tzu, Art of War, which presumably is the actual book with in character forward, was listed as Battalion or above unlock for $500K.
Now it is only included in the updated lists for Regiment.
These 'mistakes' happen.
Flinty wrote: Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Typo ? 9 total ForcePacks (6 standard + 3, if we hit 5M)..
The updates are very ambiguous. The only thing they have locked in is a second bonus Force Pack at $5M, I don't see a third at that pledge level. Still it is not a kick in the teeth, just rather cheap for our commitment..
Also bonus Force Packs might be exactly that, Support Packs are not guaranteed beyond the initial pledge, and they tried to wiggle out of even that.
Flinty wrote: Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Typo ? 9 total ForcePacks (6 standard + 3, if we hit 5M)..
Sorry, yes, I meant 9 in total. Personally I dont think the double forcepacks offer is necessary, but 50% extra seems to bring it into a reasonable position.
@Orlanth - the update text is ambiguous, but the 5m stretch goal on the mail page says 2.
Flinty wrote: Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Typo ? 9 total ForcePacks (6 standard + 3, if we hit 5M)..
Sorry, yes, I meant 9 in total. Personally I don't think the double forcepacks offer is necessary, but 50% extra seems to bring it into a reasonable position.
@Orlanth - the update text is ambiguous, but the 5m stretch goal on the mail page says 2.
I have a strong feeling that that is a running total. I would like to be wrong, but Catalyst love to max the sales hype too much in this campaign, and have not rally been ethical so far. Once we reach 5 million, which i did not think we would get to frankly, then 'my bad' and 'sorry about the misunderstanding' and a vague promise appears for 6 mil that offers more than it does.
One inconsistency I have noticed is that Catalyst are very careful with their wording. They offers us 'more plastic' it means more marketing, but it isn't a lie. They parsed out months of pre project content into 'unlocks'. They inflate values of .pdf and 4" mechs to pad out deal sizes, yet they are suddenly sloppy over future rewards. I am not buying it.
That being said if it is true and we do get 9 Forcepacks for Battalion, then that pledge is looking reasonably solid now. It's Regiment that gets the kick, and Full Kerensky of course, but anyone backing that is lost to reason.
zend wrote: Clan Invasion's $150 tier gave you all of them, plus a shirt and custom dice to match your faction choice.
Shirts are in the Catalyst Game Labs store so no need to waith for a Kickstarter if you need a new shirt, as are dice which can actually be used as dice (unlike the misshapen so-called 'dice' from the CI Kickstarter).
So long as you're from the USA, you're right. Otherwise, buying from the Catalyst store is a non-starter. They wanted $150 to send me a premium mini to Europe.
So actually, yes, there IS a need.
Ping them an Email about that and they reduce the shipping massively, for my last order direct from them was an Alpha strike box and 3 mech packs, postage was £16 ish
Orlanth wrote: Watch the pledge levels please and the stretchgoal lists.
The physical copy of Sun Tzu, Art of War, which presumably is the actual book with in character forward, was listed as Battalion or above unlock for $500K.
Now it is only included in the updated lists for Regiment.
These 'mistakes' happen.
Flinty wrote: Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Typo ? 9 total ForcePacks (6 standard + 3, if we hit 5M)..
The updates are very ambiguous. The only thing they have locked in is a second bonus Force Pack at $5M, I don't see a third at that pledge level. Still it is not a kick in the teeth, just rather cheap for our commitment..
Also bonus Force Packs might be exactly that, Support Packs are not guaranteed beyond the initial pledge, and they tried to wiggle out of even that.
Apologies, should have been clearer : Battalion base pledge : 6FP, 5M stretch goal adds +2FP, another earlier stretch goal added another FP = 9 total.
Currently at Veteran and staying there until the 5M is reached (some 800k to go, averaging 31k/day.. possible).
I'm not expecting the other levels (6M, 8M) to be attained (unless they drop some superlative value/money and all the backers go bananas).
Orlanth wrote: Watch the pledge levels please and the stretchgoal lists.
The physical copy of Sun Tzu, Art of War, which presumably is the actual book with in character forward, was listed as Battalion or above unlock for $500K.
Now it is only included in the updated lists for Regiment.
These 'mistakes' happen.
Flinty wrote: Hmm. If it gets to the 5m then I might be tempted to bump up to battalion actually. 9 extra forcepacks bring the ppm down to about 3.50, and it comes with a map pack as well.
Typo ? 9 total ForcePacks (6 standard + 3, if we hit 5M)..
The updates are very ambiguous. The only thing they have locked in is a second bonus Force Pack at $5M, I don't see a third at that pledge level. Still it is not a kick in the teeth, just rather cheap for our commitment..
Also bonus Force Packs might be exactly that, Support Packs are not guaranteed beyond the initial pledge, and they tried to wiggle out of even that.
Apologies, should have been clearer : Battalion base pledge : 6FP, 5M stretch goal adds +2FP, another earlier stretch goal added another FP = 9 total.
Currently at Veteran and staying there until the 5M is reached (some 800k to go, averaging 31k/day.. possible).
I'm not expecting the other levels (6M, 8M) to be attained (unless they drop some superlative value/money and all the backers go bananas).
No apology needed, you did not read this wrong. It is just inconsistent with the wording on Update 9, and I suspect is a running total to make it appear to offer more than it does.
Stretchgoals are to get people to pledge, they cant be backtracked on but that can be 'clarified', Catalyst has got what they wanted, and people have chased a bonus with extra pledge that might not actually be there.
I would be happy to be wrong but lets wait and see, we might get some mileage on holding their feet to the fire if it is a 'mistake' after all Update 9 does not offer a Force pack to pledged at Company, and the Stretchgoal list does. This would give a strong case to indicate that the Update 9 text has been superceded and the 5 million unlock is not accumulative.
Catalyst may not listen, but Kickstarter might. Stretchgoals are funding lures, and I know from talking to other developers they are not allowed to backtrack on unlocked stretchgoals once the backers have unlocked them. If KS allowed bait and switch they themselves could be in legal hot water.
Ghaz wrote: Just finished watching the interview with Anthony Scroggins. They will be moving directly into working on the faction-specific ForcePacks to be released alongside the corresponding Force Manuals. It also sounds like each faction may have era-specific ForcePacks (e.g., Davion would have Clan Invasion and ilClan ForcePacks, etc.).
Where was the interview?
On the livestream mentioned HERE. Unfortunately I don't see a way and go back and play yesterday's stream.
zend wrote: Clan Invasion's $150 tier gave you all of them, plus a shirt and custom dice to match your faction choice.
Shirts are in the Catalyst Game Labs store so no need to waith for a Kickstarter if you need a new shirt, as are dice which can actually be used as dice (unlike the misshapen so-called 'dice' from the CI Kickstarter).
So long as you're from the USA, you're right. Otherwise, buying from the Catalyst store is a non-starter. They wanted $150 to send me a premium mini to Europe.
So actually, yes, there IS a need.
Ping them an Email about that and they reduce the shipping massively, for my last order direct from them was an Alpha strike box and 3 mech packs, postage was £16 ish
Was that just to their customer support, with what you were looking to order but the shipping cost put you off?
CGL just clarified in the 'Comments' that Veteran backers DO receive a Salvage Box at the $5M mark per Update #10 despite not being noted on the $5M Stretch Goal graphic.
Flinty wrote: Another comment indicated that they are updating the main page with renders of the mechs and vehicles in each box. Sounds like a good idea
I get the feeling that the smoothness of the first couple of days of the campaign has been rather stymied by the Adepticon shenanigans
I'm surprised they seemed to have been caught on the hop not having graphics and descriptions of the boxes or a add ons list ready for the KS launch.
Yeah that's a pretty major oversight considering that's a huge part of what interests people in backing the KS.
I think its because they distributed all that media on other sites and kind of thought fans would keep clicking and following links to find the info elsewhere.
Kind of like how some of their marketing was "buy this £0 product from our store to get the marketing".
I get the impression Catalyst was a guy who scrapped up enough to get the license for books and tabletop to a largely bygone property, and over a decade later the company has managed to grow the property back beyond their own size and expertise because a dedicated fanbase was just waiting for anyone to do it. They clearly didn't do any homework for the campaign and didn't make basic preparations like graphics, which are just things we've come to expect from companies doing Kickstarters of nearly any size, let alone one this big.
Which is nothing terrible against them, it's just obvious no one you would ever hire to run a Kickstarter campaign can be found among their staff. The changes they've been making are good though, but again I'm wondering what happens when this campaign hits a wall, which it will, and moreover what if it does so BEFORE we hit 5 million.
Flinty wrote: Another comment indicated that they are updating the main page with renders of the mechs and vehicles in each box. Sounds like a good idea
Looks like all bar one of the ForcePack images are now on there - Legendary MechWarriors II is missing, but the campaign page does detail what will be in it.
There does seem to be a lot of Marauders in the Legendary boxes.
I'm dipping my toes in the water with BattleTech with this KS - backed at Company, picked up the core box locally today, and found one of the old BattleTech novels I've owned for 20+ years at this point. Not sure how things will be painted just yet, though.
Flinty wrote: Another comment indicated that they are updating the main page with renders of the mechs and vehicles in each box. Sounds like a good idea
Looks like all bar one of the ForcePack images are now on there - Legendary MechWarriors II is missing, but the campaign page does detail what will be in it.
There does seem to be a lot of Marauders in the Legendary boxes.
I'm dipping my toes in the water with BattleTech with this KS - backed at Company, picked up the core box locally today, and found one of the old BattleTech novels I've owned for 20+ years at this point. Not sure how things will be painted just yet, though.
There is a reason Marauders are piloted by so many legendary pilots, and this is that is a darn good mech. When designed it was revolutionary, was the mech of choice for the Gunslinger Program, and ALL of the Black Watch cut their teeth on one.
It is a fantastic mech in lore, a great command platform, and a design that has maintained relevancy for hundreds of years due to being good from the get go.
Hmmm, I've already got five marauders, and after the Legendary boxes I'll have seven. It's a popular 'Mech, but also a rare one in the Random Assignment Table book. I wish they'd make a 'Super Common Medium and Light 'Mech Company' box and sell it on their website.
Form a collector's pov so many Marauders in the boxes is a real downside. But the players like me can never have too many Marauders. (I only have 1 metal, 1 new plastic, and a 1/72 scale Macross kit )
Miguelsan wrote: Form a collector's pov so many Marauders in the boxes is a real downside. But the players like me can never have too many Marauders. (I only have 1 metal, 1 new plastic, and a 1/72 scale Macross kit )
M.
If they made a premium Marauder, or a CGL resculpt Marauder from IWM... my ENTIRE gaming group has agreed they will max out any limitations for premium minis to get me as many as I could ever want.
Absolutely my favorite mech, and an absolute obsession of mine.
Miguelsan wrote: Form a collector's pov so many Marauders in the boxes is a real downside. But the players like me can never have too many Marauders. (I only have 1 metal, 1 new plastic, and a 1/72 scale Macross kit )
M.
I was commenting on it more from a "Why so many duplicates?" POV, more than anything else.
+ + +
Out of interest, which of the ForcePacks are people looking to get, assuming you've pledged to get some of them? I'm thinking the Clan Direct Fire Star for one, but not sure about the other yet.
I'm kind of on the fence. I'm an Inner Sphere enthusiast, and have been since the '80's, but I'm not particularly enthused about the Mechs being offered. I suppose I'll have to go with vehicles, but I'm not really familiar with how any of them play, so I'll just have to get the coolest ones.
I want to get at least two each of the IS lances. Maybe 3 or 4 of the pure light and medium lances, but those extras would be at retail. I'd be down for getting one of the Clan Stars too, but I don't have any interest in vehicles. I can 3d print vehicles for next to nothing, and official model or proxy seems the same to me for tanks and stuff like that.
Option 2 Company Pledge (150) :
Mercenaries Box - 8 Mechs + 4 vees
+3 Salvage Boxes - another 3 Mechs
Battle & Fire + Security Lance as pledge rewards - 8 vehicles + 5 Mechs (because another Salvage Box for the IS Lance reward)
+ possibly another ForcePack if we hit the 5M stretch goal
150 USD (ex-shipping & VAT) for 16 Mechs + 12 vees (with possibly another ForcePack)
Dysartes wrote: Out of interest, which of the ForcePacks are people looking to get, assuming you've pledged to get some of them? I'm thinking the Clan Direct Fire Star for one, but not sure about the other yet.
I'll wait for retail. It will be IS, not those dezgra surat Clanners. Most likely light and medium cavalry mechs, since that's what I like to play in CBT. Since Alpha Strike is new to me, I'm not sure how many lights and mediums are optimum for AS, but at the very least it will give more flexibility in meeting the points limit.
The beefy Phoenix Hawk makes the direct fire star quite tempting, but the rest aren’t that interesting for me. I almost bumped up from company to battalion, but then Realised I’d end up with over 70 models that I’d never get to paint or use on the board!
With all that in mind, I’m thinking the battle armour Lance, the LRM/SRM carrier vehicle pack and the Legendary 2 pack as the 3 forcepacks at the pledge level, assuming it will hit 5m. Depending on the price of the battle armour, I might go for the legendary 3 pack instead and just buy the infantry.
Momentum has well and truly been lost. Ho hum. Still should be able to make the 5m mark by the end of the campaign at this rate, but I suppose it’s just Monday after the launch weekend, so something impressive might be pulled out over the next couple of days.
Flinty wrote: Momentum has well and truly been lost. Ho hum. Still should be able to make the 5m mark by the end of the campaign at this rate, but I suppose it’s just Monday after the launch weekend, so something impressive might be pulled out over the next couple of days.
The whole campaign has the issue of not being very good from a value perspective for overseas backers (or well, at least EU ones I guess), given that you have to pay VAT on top of shipping (which will be more expensive, just by being overseas). Having to pay 18-21% extra (from the full cost, including shipping cost, because that's how they do it) makes it more expensive than buying retail even with the swag thrown in.
And then the limited edition book is $200, and it's suddenly waaaaaaay too rich for my blood.
Dropping momentum is to be expected when they aren't unlocking lots of new models.
Reaper Bones always maintained fairly good momentum but that was often because every so often they'd unlock a new bunch of models and everyone who was already backing was encouraged to pledge more on the new unlocks which would bump the money up and keep things going.
The "dead"zone between the first few and last few days is why a lot of GW are now only 2 weeks instead of 4 weeks/1month long. Because that long period in the middle generates very little money overall and can run the risk of slipping backwards or just stalling growth.
Indeed. I backed Zombiecide Invader and they very deliberately kept unlocks going all the way through with mid-campaign set of add ons to get people to bump their pledge even just a little bit.
Just about to go through the five million Dollar mark. I'm delighted with progress.
Not sure how posters thought the first few days pledges would continue until the end. That would make this Kickstarter nearly unique in not having a barren spell in the middle.
Still one of the biggest tabletop kicstarters of all time - and for a 1980s game that 'died' twenty years ago. Not bad at all.
I think its helped that B-Tech never fully died, it just went very niche. It's also been bolstered a lot by the video games like Mech Warrior that kept alive the interest in the general public.
Overread wrote: I think its helped that B-Tech never fully died, it just went very niche. It's also been bolstered a lot by the video games like Mech Warrior that kept alive the interest in the general public.
It wasn't so much that the game went 'niche', but with the history of the game after FASA closed their doors.
The momentum does continue to be going, if not at quite the crazy rate of the first couple of days.
An audiobook is a nice little bonus - after all, this wasn't a pre-announced stretch goal to try to unlock, it was only announced after that mark was hit.
Dare we ask how you expressed yourself over there, that caused your comment to get flagged as breaking KS guidelines?
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
Dysartes wrote: The momentum does continue to be going, if not at quite the crazy rate of the first couple of days.
An audiobook is a nice little bonus - after all, this wasn't a pre-announced stretch goal to try to unlock, it was only announced after that mark was hit.
Dare we ask how you expressed yourself over there, that caused your comment to get flagged as breaking KS guidelines?
I said: "Way to work on keeping the momentum going forward with that newest reward...... LMAO!"
So clearly their butt is sore.
I guess some people enjoy crumbs more than others.
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
This is the case with a large amount of people.
You can see it in the comments on KS, here, Facebook groups, etc.....
Any when they get shouted down, they go silent.
That's never good.
Although the shills seem to like it and claim the moral victory.
I was in at $500, pulled to $80 and sat, as have many. Others are just sitting and waiting their time out.
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
This is the case with a large amount of people.
You can see it in the comments on KS, here, Facebook groups, etc.....
Any when they get shouted down, they go silent.
That's never good.
Although the shills seem to like it and claim the moral victory.
I was in at $500, pulled to $80 and sat, as have many. Others are just sitting and waiting their time out.
Hey Talon,
I'm in the same boat, currently sitting at Veteran level and waiting what further miniature stretch goals will be unlocked.
That being said, I'm a EU-resident and I already prepared for and factored in VAT payment for my pledge.
For my understanding, what additional costs would apply to CONUS residents (your location states York, New England) ?
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.
TalonZahn wrote: If I was *not* in the U.S. there's almost zero chance I would back this KS.
Being in the EU... yup, pretty much. I'll hold on to the pledge until the last couple days just in case, but I'll probably drop it altogether then, if it doesn't change a whole lot.
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.
Old Timey Americans were lazy with naming cities and depending where you are in the U.S. they don't even pronounce the stolen names correctly!
Not just lazy, probably sucking up to their sponsors as well. Although it wasn't limited to English colonists; look at Louisiana, for example.
As for my pledge, I too am at Veteran, though I tossed in +$8 before they added Mercs Salvage boxes. Like others, I'm waiting to see what miniatures will be added, if any. Can always drop. Probably should since despite my initial enthusiasm for Alpha Strike, I've gotten distracted again, and am not painting my mechs. Why add to the pile? [Although I probably will. If not this KS, another one, like Gangs of Rome or the latest Kensei one with onna bugeshia, that's 'female/women warriors' in Japanese.]
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.
My understanding is that people are concerned because the graphic on the website specifically calls out backers being responsible for VAT, whereas in the Clan Invasion Kickstarter however it was imported/shipped did not incur a VAT payment.
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.
My understanding is that people are concerned because the graphic on the website specifically calls out backers being responsible for VAT, whereas in the Clan Invasion Kickstarter however it was imported/shipped did not incur a VAT payment.
The post I replied to specifically said "shipping to the UK", as well as VAT - I'd seen something about the former, so commented on it; unaware of anything about VAT, so didn't comment on that.
And given shipping from the US to the UK is a spicy meat-a-ball, not having to pay that if you thought you did is a good thing, no?
Indeed, we have to pay local shipping from hub to home not to the hub, even so i expect based on recent KS that to be in the $25+ if not more range, that makes the $275 level pledge $360ish to the UK ((275+25)1.2) as you have to pay VAT on shipping too.
If i ignore the swag which i have no interest in, I can get equivalent content (force packs, salvage boxes , map packs etc) for about 80% of that cost, the only issue being it can be hard to track down due to CGL distribution issues in UK.
Ghaz wrote: Check the FAQ. Its very clear who is responsible for the VAT.
The rules governning VAT in the EU have been ammended since the Clan KS. Before July 2021 non EU packages when shipped from a hub within the EU didn't have to pay VAT unless those packages exceeded a failry high amount of money. Now every package is due to pay the tax. (And lowest VAT in the EU starts at 19% iirc)
M.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Here, we added an in between stretch goal."
"Is it more minis? More maps? More anything related to the game."
"It's another PDF story."
"Great."
You have a point there. I don't think I bothered claiming the fiction from the last KS. But if that PDFs were old FASA books I'd be pretty interested as I had a punch of FASA era PDFs in an old laptop that went belly up.
I'm becoming resigned to the idea of low value that may be partially overcome by people just not caring that much and still throwing money at this. An advantage of having an audience of a lot of people who probably haven't done many Kickstarters before to have expectations. And I do have to hand it to them, they did quickly respond to the fact that their campaign has no value, not necessarily by fixing it, but by laying out huge stretch goal levels that could partially fix it. So now people don't have any reason to get upset mid-campaign the way they do every time CMON pulls this kind of thing.
Ghaz wrote: Check the FAQ. Its very clear who is responsible for the VAT.
The rules governning VAT in the EU have been ammended since the Clan KS. Before July 2021 non EU packages when shipped from a hub within the EU didn't have to pay VAT unless those packages exceeded a failry high amount of money. Now every package is due to pay the tax. (And lowest VAT in the EU starts at 19% iirc)
M..
Yes, which is why the FAQ for the Mercenaries Kickstarter says the following:
Catalyst will cover all freight, import duties, and handling fees. Backers will be responsible for local delivery and VAT.
I was a $500 right off the bat. Finding out it wasnt shipping for a year (after reading somewhere where it would be a much fastester campaign in and out, almost ready, etc LAST year, I'll be cutting my pledge at least in half.
The stretch goals have been insulting. The 500 tier is crappy. They've killed my hype. I hope it does really well still but I'm not feeling this preorder scheme.
I don't know if you don't get it, you don't want to get it, or if it's something else. When EU customers complain about the lack of value due to VAT is not that they don't know that the FAQ says that they are responsible for the VAT, it's that previous to July 2021 unless you went in for a huge amount of money the VAT was effectively 0, no matter if it was shipped from Germany, the US, or Australia.
So during the Clan KS a Star Captain pledge was 95$ + shipping to the EU + 0% VAT.
Now a Veteran pledge is going to be 80$ + shipping + 21% VAT on the basic pledge and the shipping.
It's up to Catalyst to decide to be more, or less generous with the rewards, but it's also true that non-US supporters got the short straw this time, and they are right to complain that the value is not there.
As a further example a Clan star add-on in the Mercs KS is going to be 30$ +21% VAT = 36.3$ shipping not included. In Goblin Trader (Spanish shop) the same star costs 37.84$
Dysartes wrote: The momentum does continue to be going, if not at quite the crazy rate of the first couple of days.
An audiobook is a nice little bonus - after all, this wasn't a pre-announced stretch goal to try to unlock, it was only announced after that mark was hit.
Dare we ask how you expressed yourself over there, that caused your comment to get flagged as breaking KS guidelines?
I said: "Way to work on keeping the momentum going forward with that newest reward...... LMAO!"
So clearly their butt is sore.
I guess some people enjoy crumbs more than others.
Censorship is good for you. It keeps you from high expectations and unfounded optimism.
Either/Or wrote: I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.
I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.
Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.
There is a UK hub, so no customs, but we will pay 20% extra VAT.
It is still keeping pace with retail if you get support packs of level IIs with your forcepack allowance. This is what I will be doing for the most part.
The saving grace is that you pay VAT later so the payment is spread out and manageable.
The other thing that argues for getting stuff is that the packs will hit retail in a year or so, and inflation is currently running pretty hot. So as long as it’s not much worse than retail at the moment, then it might be worth it in the long run.
I was looking through a few past big hitters in Kicktraq, and this one is similar in terms of the nominal daily uplift, I.e. about $50-100k per day. The difference is that this one got there after just 2 days, rather than 5 or 6. However, this one also made more in that first day, so I think the dynamics are a bit different here.
Out of interest, which of the ForcePacks are people looking to get, assuming you've pledged to get some of them? I'm thinking the Clan Direct Fire Star for one, but not sure about the other yet.
One pack each of all the tanks and IS Battle Armor. If there are still packs I can get from my Battalion pledge, I will start chasing Ost mechs and then other IS packs.
Dysartes wrote: Out of interest, which of the ForcePacks are people looking to get, assuming you've pledged to get some of them? I'm thinking the Clan Direct Fire Star for one, but not sure about the other yet.
Right now, definitely at least one Assault & Cavalry and one Battle & Fire, the Clan Direct Fire Star (need me that Highlander IIC), and both Legendary packs (excuse for more Marauders and an extra Devastator). May end up getting some battle armour as well, though I have a ton of metal stands of the stuff, so not certain on that. Might also grab the IS Assault Lance as I have a soft spot for the Goliath (and it can keep my metal Barghests company). Any extras will probably go to double-up on some of the vehicle packs so I can field pure lances of some of the vehicles.
1. There are now "brown box/Retaliation boxes" planned at this stage. I'm am insistently asking them to reconsider.
2. The Salvage Boxes do not contain any vehicles.
3. Any non-exclusive force packs, as well as things like the UrbanMech Lance and Proliferation Lance will be available as add-ons (no confirmation if available as included lance packs though).
The names don't really mean anything to me - aside from the Hetzer, in historical/WoT context - but the Von Luckner name amuses me
Overall it is a good force pack. I will be wanting at least one. I would however have preferred a swap out for the Hetzer, including another 'quality tank' like the Patton/Rommel instead. The Hetzer deserves to go into a militia support pack for cheap vehicles like J Edgars, Scimitars, Saladins, Savannah Masters, Scorpions or Strikers.
I think I saw somewhere that they would never do a Rommel (at least by that name) due to historical associations.
Note that Catalyst does not own the BattleTech intellectual property. That would be owned by Topps. As such, they could be responsible for the removal of the Rommel tank. We really don’t have enough information to know who’s responsible and its not worth dragging this thread off-topic.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it's only because of a bit of sudden onset brain-dead "presentism" that caused Catalyst to suddenly balk at the name after 40 fething years.
Has someone from CGL actually said something about this? Because it seems that in-setting Defiance is "refocusing the two designs into distinct roles", which would seem to mean both are still canon and in production.
It's just CGl hopping on the woke train. Fair enough, it's not as bad as other franchises that completely obliterate the lore and alienate the fans. Stackpole openly claimed that BT always was woke and that is a good thing. They also created lgbt+ characters and furries.
The Rommel has been purged, one can hope they don't find out who Kurita was...
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it's only because of a bit of sudden onset brain-dead "presentism" that caused Catalyst to suddenly balk at the name after 40 fething years.
Has someone from CGL actually said something about this? Because it seems that in-setting Defiance is "refocusing the two designs into distinct roles", which would seem to mean both are still canon and in production.
I recall reading someone from Catalyst commenting on the forums that the order had come from above. Probably Topps in that case because Randall and Co had a long time to erase Rommel, and never did.
I'm very interested to see what else they have planned in terms of stretch goals as mentioned in the update. I do appreciate they reversed course on what they explicitly said early on in terms of value, and not having any. If we hit 5 million, which seems likely to be soon, the Battalion pledge will be alright, and if we hit 7 million it might be down right acceptable. The Regiment pledge is no good, though considering how many people over there are saying they'll just have to buy two Battalions if they don't improve it, it probably doesn't worry them.
I don’t think they have any plans and are just randomly reacting to being shouted at. I’m not getting any real excitement from this campaign after the first few hours. They have made their money and are basically done. That’s fine, as long as the 5m mark gets met, but it feels like a bit of a shame as this could have been a much more interesting event over all.
Almost makes you wonder if they are stuck with a delivery time they can still meet, but if they get too much bigger, then they will have to start pushing back dates, which will lose them credibility.
Flinty wrote: I don’t think they have any plans and are just randomly reacting to being shouted at. I’m not getting any real excitement from this campaign after the first few hours. They have made their money and are basically done. That’s fine, as long as the 5m mark gets met, but it feels like a bit of a shame as this could have been a much more interesting event over all.
It really comes across like a Kickstarter planned by a group of grandpas, which probably it was. When they said they were expecting to get about the same amount of money as last time one has to wonder how they didn't notice 22,000 people signed up to their pre-launch page, or be able to connect the dots. And the fact that they made it a month long also was just a clear sign that they probably need somebody younger and more connected to the current day market working there. With the way it's still making money I'd now say $7 million doesn't sound out of reach though, their reactions to being shouted at seemed to be satisfactory for most.
I will say, this has put all the people saying BT is going to compete with 40K before long into perspective. This is a small company, and it's probably always going to be a small company. The game will grow as large as the act of just throwing miniatures at the market will make it, there's not going to be stewardship that takes advantage of the hype during the "new hotness" phase to borrow a phrase from the forum's founder. With all the 'Mechs from the Succession Wars and Clan Invasion made, and maybe big chunks of TRO 3058 and 3055, they'll have an evergreen miniature line even if they're not on the ICv2 list's top 5 for a decade, which will still be great and bring them a lot of success, but I think like basically every other game that isn't by GW it'll shine for a short while and then fade back down.
The initial launch had some great hype and build up, and now there is little excitement happening. Three more weeks of this followed by a couple days of geeing up the laggards?
Flinty wrote: The initial launch had some great hype and build up, and now there is little excitement happening. Three more weeks of this followed by a couple days of geeing up the laggards?
Super exciting, so much wow!
Sadly, the Golden Age of KS is over. These days, when I back a KS, I pledge for what I want, and ignore stretch goals and add-ons until the inevitable Pledge Manager.
Flinty wrote: The initial launch had some great hype and build up, and now there is little excitement happening. Three more weeks of this followed by a couple days of geeing up the laggards?
Super exciting, so much wow!
Sadly, the Golden Age of KS is over. These days, when I back a KS, I pledge for what I want, and ignore stretch goals and add-ons until the inevitable Pledge Manager.
I always found trying to follow stretch goals tedious, and my fav ks haven’t been ones that gave tons of goals. But a product I wanted and some extra in the box when it comes.
So I am happy with my place in this one.
Garfield666 wrote: It's just CGl hopping on the woke train. Fair enough, it's not as bad as other franchises that completely obliterate the lore and alienate the fans. Stackpole openly claimed that BT always was woke and that is a good thing. They also created lgbt+ characters and furries.
The Rommel has been purged, one can hope they don't find out who Kurita was...
Rommel has long been an acceptable person. He wasn't as clean as post war propaganda made him out to be, but the post war reconstruction needed a 'good Nazi' and Rommel was a solid choice. As for any dirt on him, no more than on most allied commanders of the time, he was less than perfect, but that is not an acceptable benchmark.
If people in the 1950's didn't have any problems with Rommel, we have no excuse, very few if any of us are WW2 veterans, and only they had cause to complain, not wokesters.
As for Stackpole, he was always proto-woke, but he wasn't indoctrinated to get where he is, unlike the average purple haired millenial who doesn't know any better. Credit where credit is due though, Stackpole's wokeness doesn't show though in his contributions to Battletech lore, he was professional enough to keep to the character of the series. But is seen in some of his other writings.
I dislike Stackpole intensely as a writer, but only because he cannot write credible intelligent heroes; but Mary Sues who take advantage of their opponents being force fed vast numbers of stupid pills, then gloat about being smarter than them while taking them down. He offsets that by being reliable, churning out stories on time and relevant to the franchise, he is also a good technical writer which is important when writing secondary fiction as the main character is always the setting. Stackpole is at his best when describing a technology in its time and place, whether it is an advanced bullet in slow mo, or a communications technology, or a bomb. I can see why he is the primary go to for Battletech fiction.
Flinty wrote: The initial launch had some great hype and build up, and now there is little excitement happening. Three more weeks of this followed by a couple days of geeing up the laggards?
Super exciting, so much wow!
Sadly, the Golden Age of KS is over. These days, when I back a KS, I pledge for what I want, and ignore stretch goals and add-ons until the inevitable Pledge Manager.
I always found trying to follow stretch goals tedious, and my fav ks haven’t been ones that gave tons of goals. But a product I wanted and some extra in the box when it comes.
So I am happy with my place in this one.
It is long over. Star Citizen saw to that. And other overhyped products, maybe it is too much to hate on Star Citizen, but it is the nail that sticks out longest.
When a project becomes too successful there is a temptation to piss away the money.
KS is also a hotbed of scams, make a promise, flash up some good graphics, take the money and disappear after one update. Kickstarter will do nothing, they had their 5% already.
Fair points. I am just recalling my experience in Zombicide:Invader that kept my interest piqued to go back frequently and see how things were getting along. They had a clear engagement plan and I think it worked pretty well: they got the community involved and that helped keep the positivity flowing. It was nice, with the added frisson of excitement of how many extra models might be possible, and what pop culture reference would be next.
It’s not a hugely generous plan on the plastic front, but it’s something at least. As always I’m entertained by the fact that there is a J Edgar hover tank
Now let’s see if this drives some actual engagement.
It’s not a hugely generous plan on the plastic front, but it’s something at least. As always I’m entertained by the fact that there is a J Edgar hover tank
Now let’s see if this drives some actual engagement.
I dunno ; if we hit the 7M stretch goal, a Battalion pledge should get an extra 5 ForcePacks on top of the 6 pledge ForcePacks, if I'm not mistaken.
So that's almost as good as the "doubles" we had for the Clan Invasion KS..
Aye, the J Edgar is a nice little bit of wordplay.
I was a little confused by the comment on the update from someone claiming that... something makes Regiment worse. Is it just the fact that Battalion is getting the same bonus ForcePacks, so the gap between the two is shrinking a little?
I wonder what the complaint would've been if only Regiment and More Money Than Sense had gotten two bonus ForcePacks instead of Battalion getting them to.
Also, it seems a little odd we've not seen addition swag picks as bonuses for passing certain goals - I know it doesn't mean much to some, but I'm a sucker for a nice pin badge, and you'd think they'd be an easy win compared to designing & releasing a new ForcePack earlier than scheduled.
Dysartes wrote: Also, it seems a little odd we've not seen addition swag picks as bonuses for passing certain goals - I know it doesn't mean much to some, but I'm a sucker for a nice pin badge, and you'd think they'd be an easy win compared to designing & releasing a new ForcePack earlier than scheduled.
There was an awful lot of pushback on the swag with people wanting MOAR MECHS!!1!
True, but there's also been a fair bit of pushback on the audiobooks - it'd've been interesting to see what the reaction were if one of the $.5million audiobook goals had been replaced with a +1 Swag pick one instead.
petrov27 wrote: Nice they added some goals, feels sorta unlikely this would hit 7mil but I guess we shall see!
Kickstarters usually have a majority of their pledges made in the first and last two to three days of the campaign as can be seen in the Clan Invasion Kickstarter stats. $7m is doable, but $8m may be out of reach.
Dysartes wrote: Also, it seems a little odd we've not seen addition swag picks as bonuses for passing certain goals - I know it doesn't mean much to some, but I'm a sucker for a nice pin badge, and you'd think they'd be an easy win compared to designing & releasing a new ForcePack earlier than scheduled.
There was an awful lot of pushback on the swag with people wanting MOAR MECHS!!1!
Those people are silly. We need more support vehicles and battle armor.
It's something I guess. Last time around I didn't bother claiming all the digital books maybe this time the novelty of the audio books will make me care about it a bit more.
Anybody knows where I could find a list of what mechs are available in new plastic ordered by TRO? 3055 is my favorite, and I'd like to know the status.
Maybe if we keep agitating for Retaliation packs they'll add them on. It seems that the daily funding is not bottoming out, likely meaning the promised stretch goals have appeased potential backers, we could have 1.5 million or less to go to 7 million with three days left. Given how many people probably low balled their pledge or just clicked remind me given the eye rolling initial value, there could be a decent reserve of cash out there.
Also for TRO 3055 I know with the Inner Sphere the Nightsky, Wraith, Penetrator, and Gunslinger are the only ones done so far. I don't think I've seen anyone do official lists matching Mechs with TROs though. Catalyst seems to like 3058 more honestly.
Miguelsan wrote: Anybody knows where I could find a list of what mechs are available in new plastic ordered by TRO? 3055 is my favorite, and I'd like to know the status.
M.
The only 'Mechs in the Kickstarter from TRO: 3055 are Clan 'Mechs. The Inner Sphere 'Mechs are either from TRO: 3050 or Star League designs from TRO: 3058.
"I think they should add in some more optional buys, like Retaliation boxes of 'Mechs, as that would help us get to the stretch goals."
"Why are you still whining about getting extra free boxes???"
"Wha... I... I didn't say anything about free boxes?"
I hope they add some things worth buying. I mean, I was even fine to pay extra for the two upcoming map packs, but they made them part of the pledge level, and I'm not adding useless swag.
Retaliation boxes, shirts besides the 40th anniversary (there’s no reason not to when they already have the designs for all of the Clans), a build your own Star/Lance where you pick what mechs you get, dropship models, terrain packs for Alpha Strike, the premium models they already have….
There’s much better things they could offer for millions of dollars, but I guess some are happy with PDFs and audiobooks.
zend wrote: Retaliation boxes, shirts besides the 40th anniversary (there’s no reason not to when they already have the designs for all of the Clans), a build your own Star/Lance where you pick what mechs you get, dropship models, terrain packs for Alpha Strike, the premium models they already have….
There’s much better things they could offer for millions of dollars, but I guess some are happy with PDFs and audiobooks.
Sounds great until you realize the nightmare of the logistics. The shirts alone, 30 different variations with5 sizes and different sizes meaning different things in different geographical areas. Build your own lances…maybe out of a selection of 10models.
zend wrote: Retaliation boxes, shirts besides the 40th anniversary (there’s no reason not to when they already have the designs for all of the Clans), a build your own Star/Lance where you pick what mechs you get, dropship models, terrain packs for Alpha Strike, the premium models they already have….
There’s much better things they could offer for millions of dollars, but I guess some are happy with PDFs and audiobooks.
Sounds great until you realize the nightmare of the logistics. The shirts alone, 30 different variations with5 sizes and different sizes meaning different things in different geographical areas. Build your own lances…maybe out of a selection of 10models.
All of it is doable with planning. The shirt argument is invalid, because they’ve already done them, and all they have to do is say is “US sizing based on this specific manufacturer’s shirt measurements, here’s a size conversion chart if you’re not in the US”. In fact most companies do this when releasing a product with shirts bundled in.
There’s no reason they can’t offer the Premium minis? They did drop ships for the higher tier backers in Clan Invasion. Terrain is brain dead simple.
Yeah, pick a Mech would be kinda hard.. But they already produce them individually to do the blind boxes so…. Why can’t they take a mech you specifically purchased out of the batch, stick it in a plastic baggie and ship it? Oh because they want you to buy the blind boxes or the packs, and they’ll never offer say…. A Kurita horde Lance pack when they can get you to gamble or buy multiple force packs to build a horde Lance.
Vain wrote: I keep seeing "Retaliation Packs" being mentioned. Can anyone give me a heads up as to what they are?
For awhile they sold a relatively cheap retaliation pack which was just a bundle of the Beginner/GoAC Mechs together without any of the other box contents. Nothing fancy, but it was convenient if you wanted duplicates of those mechs. I’d definitely grab one now that I’m building Comguard.
I hope they add some things worth buying. I mean, I was even fine to pay extra for the two upcoming map packs, but they made them part of the pledge level, and I'm not adding useless swag.
I plan to pick up the hardcover Warrior Trilogy of books, reading through them right now and love them enough to buy hardcovers of them.
zend wrote: All of it is doable with planning. The shirt argument is invalid, because they’ve already done them, and all they have to do is say is “US sizing based on this specific manufacturer’s shirt measurements, here’s a size conversion chart if you’re not in the US”. In fact most companies do this when releasing a product with shirts bundled in.
zend wrote: There’s no reason they can’t offer the Premium minis? They did drop ships for the higher tier backers in Clan Invasion. Terrain is brain dead simple.
Catalyst doesn't make the premium miniatures, Monster Fight Club does and it's unknown if have the capacity to provide premium 'Mechs for a Kickstarter and their own products at the same time.
zend wrote: Yeah, pick a Mech would be kinda hard.. But they already produce them individually to do the blind boxes so…. Why can’t they take a mech you specifically purchased out of the batch, stick it in a plastic baggie and ship it? Oh because they want you to buy the blind boxes or the packs, and they’ll never offer say…. A Kurita horde Lance pack when they can get you to gamble or buy multiple force packs to build a horde Lance.
You would need to know what's in the box to do that and I believe they're packed in China. So Catalyst would have to unseal each box, sort those boxes into 38 different piles and then go and pick from the correct pile instead of just bringing up a pallet of Salvage boxes and picking the number you would need for the order. It would definitely slow down fulfillment.
Going on an earlier post, now that we have seen the Patton and J.Edgar in the 6mil Battlefield Support Pack, which of these would folks expect out of the 8 mil Battlefield Support Pack?
Scimitars, Saladins, Savannah Masters, Scorpions or Strikers
legionaires wrote: Going on an earlier post, now that we have seen the Patton and J.Edgar in the 6mil Battlefield Support Pack, which of these would folks expect out of the 8 mil Battlefield Support Pack?
Scimitars, Saladins, Savannah Masters, Scorpions or Strikers
I don't believe any of those have been worked on, so none of the above.
The real question - how many million does it take to upgrade the molds and materials being used for these models? The molds or the material just look like crap on half the sculpts. It's a shame with how good the 3d models are. If they could just make sure there's less weird pinching at the mold lines, I'd throw em a mil or two. In my dreams.
Excited to share this special release with you! Catalyst contracted Rem Alternis Productions to create a Crescent Hawks training video, educating new recruits about the types of 'Mechs & Mercs they may face in the field.
This video covers notable events, persons, and dates of the Kell Hounds mercenary unit.
We hope you all enjoy it! Give us a like, a subscribe, and tell us what you think, especially if you'd like to see more content like this in the future!
Vain wrote: I keep seeing "Retaliation Packs" being mentioned. Can anyone give me a heads up as to what they are?
Box set minis without the rulebook and maps.
Theophony wrote: The shirts alone, 30 different variations with5 sizes and different sizes meaning different things in different geographical areas.
I was surprised to find out how big my CJF shirt from the previous Kickstarter was, American XL seems to be the same size as European XXXL or at least close to it. I might have bought an L sized CJF shirt from this Kickstarter.
Here's the relevant part: Instead of fixing the value of the Regiment Pledge Level, to stop you from getting 2 Battalion Level Pledges for more stuff, CGL says "feth YOU! YOU ONLY GET 1 SET OF BONUSES FOR YOUR PLEDGE!".
I see great things coming for the KS after that move.
M.
Edit: I'll be charitable and think they probably said it thinking about the logistics issues, rather than trying to push more people to pledge at regiment level instead of the cheaper double bat.
There seem to be some good positives in There alongside a couple of downsides. The retaliation packs seem to have been a really big thing for a lot of people so hopefully that will give a nice mid-campaign bump and make it more likely for fence sitters to come down. Gotta reach the cookbook! (Or something)
The best retaliation box was the one that combined AGoAC and the Beginner Box for $40, I don't know if we can agitate for that one too. Being in the US, I just bought a AGoAC for $36 and the Alpha Strike box for $55, it's not hard to wait for a discount on the full box better than what you'll get on the KS for just the models.
But I am very glad they listened and did something smart, even if they continued to grandpa things by saying they didn't know if they could successfully do double pledges. I'm sure this will add tens of thousands more dollars toward getting us to $7 million.
No double pledges?
And I was so looking forward to get double the PDFs...
They grossly overestimate the perceived value of everything besides the minis. The plastic is what draws 95% of the people. If this was an all minis BTKS, I guess everyone would have been happy.
Note that Catalyst is not using CrowdOx as the Pledge Manager for the Mercenaries Kickstarter, they're using GameFound. I would imagine they want to make sure that they CAN do double pledges before they tell everyone that they can just to find out they can't. They're holding another livestream this Saturday IIRC and it may be covered there.
And Retaliation packs for Mercs and Alpha Strike are there!
What are the contents for Alpha Strike?
Also are they doing Mk1 Retaliation boxes also, preferably with Vindicator swap in?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: Note that Catalyst is not using CrowdOx as the Pledge Manager for the Mercenaries Kickstarter, they're using GameFound. I would imagine they want to make sure that they CAN do double pledges before they tell everyone that they can just to find out they can't. They're holding another livestream this Saturday IIRC and it may be covered there.
You can get double pledges anyway by opening a second account. A lot of people already have second accounts to take advantage of other Kickstarters with better stretchgoals. I had a long dormant second account I reopened for more Dungeons & Lasers.
A second account also means you're paying separate shipping for each account.
Livestream with Randall Bills right now at https://www.twitch.tv/GenConTV An interesting fact provided by Randall is that at $5m it is the 45th most successful Kickstarter of all time (all categories) and there's still two weeks to go.
Sarna wrote:13 high-quality, fully assembled (unpainted) miniatures; including two new redesigned miniatures, the Wraith and Pouncer, and seven all-new variants, in new poses.
Archer
Atlas
Blackjack
Fire Moth
Locust
Nova
Phoenix Hawk
Pouncer
Timber Wolf
Warhammer
Warhawk
Wasp
Wraith
Well yesterdays total was up close to $100k again, so more than double recent days. If that keeps up for a few days it will bring the nice $7m extra boxes that much closer
[sarcasm] The Mercenaries Kickstarter must be close to shipping since ACD Distribution already has the boxed set up for pre-order. [/sarcasm]
Automatically Appended Next Post: New FAQ in Update #22 in the OP. Answers the question that if you back multiple reward tiers do you get the stretch goals for each reward? (YES!) and amswers few other questions.
Ghaz wrote: Note that Catalyst is not using CrowdOx as the Pledge Manager for the Mercenaries Kickstarter, they're using GameFound. I would imagine they want to make sure that they CAN do double pledges before they tell everyone that they can just to find out they can't. They're holding another livestream this Saturday IIRC and it may be covered there.
Shock and horror… update 22 confirms that they can do the thing that pledge managers are set up to do
D’oh. Missed Ghaz’s update… that’s, like not even ninjaing. That’s just me not seeing stuff…
An update from the BattleTech Forums on the big surprise stretch goal that was to be posted for the $8 million mark:
shivanworm wrote:Gideon/Ray posted in discord that the 8 million surprise is being pushed back to 10 million. A new thing will take its place at 8.
Sounds to me like the $8 million stretch goal was something they thought was out of reach and now they've decided to change it now that $8 million might actually occur (however slim of a chance that is).
Ghaz wrote: An update from the BattleTech Forums on the big surprise stretch goal that was to be posted for the $8 million mark:
shivanworm wrote:Gideon/Ray posted in discord that the 8 million surprise is being pushed back to 10 million. A new thing will take its place at 8.
Sounds to me like the $8 million stretch goal was something they thought was out of reach and now they've decided to change it now that $8 million might actually occur (however slim of a chance that is).
I haven't even seen an announcement on the $8mil goal is so I think they still might be able to change it, lol
Ghaz wrote: An update from the BattleTech Forums on the big surprise stretch goal that was to be posted for the $8 million mark:
shivanworm wrote:Gideon/Ray posted in discord that the 8 million surprise is being pushed back to 10 million. A new thing will take its place at 8.
Sounds to me like the $8 million stretch goal was something they thought was out of reach and now they've decided to change it now that $8 million might actually occur (however slim of a chance that is).
I haven't even seen an announcement on the $8mil goal is so I think they still might be able to change it, lol
They haven't shown it. That is why they can (and are) changing it to the $10 million stretch goal and replacing it with a different stretch goal.
The Easter bump from the retaliation packs seems to have dissipated. Looks like they need another hook out there if they want to get to 6m before the final 48 hour bell rings.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the 8/10m thing, quite often the final goal is set out as a proper stretch but it happens anyway even if the target isn’t quite reached. That may be what they are aiming for to end with a really uplifting final feeling for everyone.
Why yes I am feeling very optimistic tonight, thanks
I'd be surprised if they hit $7m, so really they may as well be offering solid gold bars and free blow jobs if they reach $10m 'cause we're never getting there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd be surprised if they hit $7m, so really they may as well be offering solid gold bars and free blow jobs if they reach $10m 'cause we're never getting there.
I think 7M is probably pretty safe, considering the last minute push these Kickstarters have. I wouldn't be surprised if they raise another mil in the last 48 hours. 10 million? Yeah, pretty much no chance.
I think 1.5 million in the last 48 is definitely possible, so $7 million can happen. Especially because we get value worth pledging for if we hit $7 million.
To get another 4m, they basically need everyone currently pledged to add another $200. This is only a bit smaller than the average pledge, so it does seem a bit unlikely.
They apparently have another 10k people following the campaign. If they can convert half of them to go on average pledge it’s 1.3m.
So yeah, I think 7m is achievable, but probably not much more than that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cool. More add-ons that might entice people to stump up a bit more
The metal LosTech dice and the neoprene map bundles are probably the outstanding lures there.
Miguelsan wrote: Somebody on the comments is pointing that the mech is not just another Centurion but Yen Lu Wang. Renegades, and traitors box incoming?
M.
Yen Lo Wang? And that's in the Mercenaries box? If that's so, that's great news for me. Was thinking of getting an Iron Wind Metal one, but the prices discouraged me.
If it's not in the Mercs box, any word on what box or ForcePack it will be in?
Miguelsan wrote: Somebody on the comments is pointing that the mech is not just another Centurion but Yen Lu Wang. Renegades, and traitors box incoming?
M.
Yen Lo Wang? And that's in the Mercenaries box? If that's so, that's great news for me. Was thinking of getting an Iron Wind Metal one, but the prices discouraged me.
If it's not in the Mercs box, any word on what box or ForcePack it will be in?
IMO, since the model is shown in an assembly video (as in currently being produced), I think it won't be part of the KS.
Here's a video from Adepticon where Randall, Ray, Anthony and Brent (CGL) talk about miniature design.
Thanks for the link, Old-Four-Arms. Randall mentions a Legends of Solaris Forcepack (in the future), and that is a logical place for them to sell Yen Lo Wang.
Definitely getting tempted to upgrade from Company to Battalion - $125 to get the Savannah map pack and 6 ForcePacks (ignoring the record sheets and physical Art of War) doesn't seem bad at all.
If you can afford it, the value goes up massively. Going from company with a map pack up to battalion is basically about 60% increase in cost to get 100% extra models.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cool. Blood asp is in the mix!
The 8m goal is looking pretty good, and evens out Regiment a bit.
TalonZahn wrote: Yes, yes.... give us another 2 million dollars and we'll reward you with an $8 box and the chance to give us more money in Add-On purchases.
Regiment getting more of a benefit from the 8m goal than Batallion? I'd've thought you'd've been happy about that, given you keep harping on about it, but I'm definitely getting the impression there's nothing Catalyst can do that's going to make you happy with the campaign.
To those not saltier than the Dead Sea, I take it the Somerset Strikers are a featured unit in the background, possibly in some of the novels?
Dysartes wrote: To those not saltier than the Dead Sea, I take it the Somerset Strikers are a featured unit in the background, possibly in some of the novels?
TalonZahn wrote: Yes, yes.... give us another 2 million dollars and we'll reward you with an $8 box and the chance to give us more money in Add-On purchases.
Regiment getting more of a benefit from the 8m goal than Batallion? I'd've thought you'd've been happy about that, given you keep harping on about it, but I'm definitely getting the impression there's nothing Catalyst can do that's going to make you happy with the campaign.
To those not saltier than the Dead Sea, I take it the Somerset Strikers are a featured unit in the background, possibly in some of the novels?
I can't believe you think a Salvage Box is a worthy reward for an extra $2mil
Some people will be happy lapping crumbs I guess.
Yes, it does separate Regiment a bit more, but this stretch goal doesn't exactly goad the masses into pledging another $2mil.
Staying at double Batt, you can still get the same stuff and 2 Asps for free.
I need that Mauler to get made! I have spent way to many years looking at the cover of mechwarrior 2 mercenaries not to get an updated sculpt for that mech now!
lurch wrote: I need that Mauler to get made! I have spent way to many years looking at the cover of mechwarrior 2 mercenaries not to get an updated sculpt for that mech now!
It's not like they're just going to throw away all of the hard work on the ForcePack just because they don't make the $8 million goal. It will be made, it might just take a little while longer.
TalonZahn wrote: Yes, yes.... give us another 2 million dollars and we'll reward you with an $8 box and the chance to give us more money in Add-On purchases.
I think I'm resigned to the fact that the plastic will not really get much better than retail, especially in the UK/EU. I'll take crumbs
H.B.M.C. wrote: A-hah. Another avenue to somehow not get a Blood Asp.
I've had bad luck obtaining Blood Asp minis over the years.
What's been the problem? There's been a few releases of the thing over the past 20 years... every single one of them was a flawless masterpiece that absolutely did not make me want to gouge my eyes out.
lurch wrote: I need that Mauler to get made! I have spent way to many years looking at the cover of mechwarrior 2 mercenaries not to get an updated sculpt for that mech now!
It's not like they're just going to throw away all of the hard work on the ForcePack just because they don't make the $8 million goal. It will be made, it might just take a little while longer.
oh I know, I'm just being over dramatic about it for fun.
Chillreaper wrote: What's been the problem? There's been a few releases of the thing over the past 20 years... every single one of them was a flawless masterpiece that absolutely did not make me want to gouge my eyes out.
I never bought the first Blood Asp mini because it looks like the legs are from a different scale game. Unfortunately looking thing.
I got the second Blood Asp minis but failed to put it together. Had a friend of mine try to put it together and he gave up in frustration. Horrid thing.
I ordered the third Blood Asp mini quite a while ago - my last big order to IWM - but it never arrived. Everything else did, but not the Blood Asp. But there was so long between the order arriving and me getting around to building them that I was never bothered to chase it up.
And now we have a fourth Blood Asp mini, and it's tied to a stretch goal I don't believe we'll reach, so, as I said, yet another opportunity for the Captain of Gondor to show his quality to somehow not end up with a Blood Asp miniature.
I'm not very impressed with the announcement. I guess that if you are a Clan lover, or H.B.M.C a Blood Asp is a great thing to have around, but to me it's a bit of a is this all? moment. At 8 million I was looking forward to something way more special like a dropship, or some other center piece.
Drop ships seem to be something that is getting sorted out in the background, but seem unlikely to hit in time for this Kickstarter.
I’m just back in the comments trying to calm the frothing loonies from being judgemental about people who dare to have a dissenting voice…
Every time I bring up the VAT issue people start shouting that it’s the government’s fault and CGL can’t do anything about that… except like not charging as much or something…
The problem is the announcement comes with nothing to make people add more to their pledges.
If you're going to announce something big for a high stretch goal, you've got to pair it with something that entices those who have already pledged to put more $$$ in, otherwise you won't reach your fancy new goal.
Miguelsan wrote: ... or H.B.M.C., a Blood Asp is a great thing to have around...
Wouldn't know. Despite all my efforts I still don't have one.
Flinty wrote: Drop ships seem to be something that is getting sorted out in the background, but seem unlikely to hit in time for this Kickstarter.
I’m just back in the comments trying to calm the frothing loonies from being judgemental about people who dare to have a dissenting voice…
Every time I bring up the VAT issue people start shouting that it’s the government’s fault and CGL can’t do anything about that… except like not charging as much or something…
I think it mostly come from US backers that won't have to pay taxes, or at least not a 20%+.
Flinty wrote: Drop ships seem to be something that is getting sorted out in the background, but seem unlikely to hit in time for this Kickstarter.
I’m just back in the comments trying to calm the frothing loonies from being judgemental about people who dare to have a dissenting voice…
Every time I bring up the VAT issue people start shouting that it’s the government’s fault and CGL can’t do anything about that… except like not charging as much or something…
I think it mostly come from US backers that won't have to pay taxes, or at least not a 20%+.
M.
The US does pay state sales taxes, up to 7.25% depending on the state and with the possibility of additional local sales taxes.
Ghaz wrote: The US does pay state sales taxes, up to 7.25% depending on the state and with the possibility of additional local sales taxes.
Oh, I'd love to pay only 7.25%! I'm in Los Angeles County, and after State, County and City, sales tax is 10.25%. I don't even remember when we last had 7.25%.
As for Pledge value, can't people see that value added is only meaningful if you would buy said items normally. As I've posted before, I dislike swag, and I have unread BT novels on my Kindle already. I'll concede that at some point I will read them, and may want more, but right now, no. Since 2nd ed. did not have minis, and the cardboard standees were horrible, even by 80's standards, it's the minis that I value. CGL saying a given pledge is a $400 retail value is just marketing puffery if you only are going to use $100 of it. So at least right now I've no incentive to up my pledge, and I will wait for retail for the Forcepacks.
TalonZahn wrote: But DUUUUUDE, those Digital Graphic Novels are valued at $20 each!
Much Value.
Yes, all of the non-mini items in the pledges have value, especially the fiction and game content. I realize you've made your whole identity for the past month whinging about this KS, but it's really not helpful.
Prometheum5 wrote: Yes, all of the non-mini items in the pledges have value, especially the fiction and game content. I realize you've made your whole identity for the past month whinging about this KS, but it's really not helpful.
He's not wrong though.
"Here's a free poster, and give us some more money and we'll make it double-sided!" doesn't engender much good will, and it certainly doesn't provide reason nor opportunity to add further funds for the chance at more rewards that aren't held with much value.
Flinty wrote: Drop ships seem to be something that is getting sorted out in the background, but seem unlikely to hit in time for this Kickstarter.
I’m just back in the comments trying to calm the frothing loonies from being judgemental about people who dare to have a dissenting voice…
Every time I bring up the VAT issue people start shouting that it’s the government’s fault and CGL can’t do anything about that… except like not charging as much or something…
I'm not sure why would it matter that it's the government's fault instead of CGL's when the end result is exactly the same, though...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Miguelsan wrote: I think it mostly come from US backers that won't have to pay taxes, or at least not a 20%+.M.
Ah, the infamous "got mine, don't care" situation, then? Makes kind of sense I guess. Or it might be a "true believers" situation, too, where fans feel like "attacks" to a company are attacks to themselves/their self worht/their decisions, instead of rightful critiques.
TalonZahn wrote: But DUUUUUDE, those Digital Graphic Novels are valued at $20 each!
Much Value.
Yes, all of the non-mini items in the pledges have value, especially the fiction and game content. I realize you've made your whole identity for the past month whinging about this KS, but it's really not helpful.
Would it be more helpful to just shut it and suck it up, buttercup? I mean, when, exactly, do you think it would be a good time to talk about issues with the Kickstarter rather than when it is running?
TalonZahn wrote: But DUUUUUDE, those Digital Graphic Novels are valued at $20 each!
Much Value.
Yes, all of the non-mini items in the pledges have value, especially the fiction and game content. I realize you've made your whole identity for the past month whinging about this KS, but it's really not helpful.
Here are some other things that would have value: Gucci purses, sandalwood planks, Montecristos, cast iron pans, and Japanese Kit-Kats.
Call me crazy, but I spent months being excited for this Kickstarter because I thought it was going to be about miniatures, and the two Battletech game systems I already play.
I read adult books, wear adult clothes, and have adult decorations, so no amount of back catalogue and shabby trinkets were ever going to be an enticement.
Next up, please explain who or what entity our posts in this thread are meant to be "helpful" to, and why they should be helpful? I personally don't mind seeing people gripe about the continually-disappointing announcements, because it reminds me that I'm not alone in my disappointment for this fundraising campaign that I spent so long looking forward to. I'm still on the fence, vacillating between FOMO and knowing it's still a pretty dull deal to partake of, and if somebody's complaining ends up encouraging me to save money I probably won't resent them for it lol
I will add that there is a difference between reasonable criticism: "if we add shipping, and VAT the KS is not such a good deal for non-US supporters compared to the Clan KS" to whining: "I didn't get moar miniatures."
I've been seeing more of the former than of the later.
Also Ghaz corrected me above, and said that sales tax will be added within the US. Point taken I thought interstate online sales where tax free still.
Miguelsan wrote: I will add that there is a difference between reasonable criticism: "if we add shipping, and VAT the KS is not such a good deal for non-US supporters compared to the Clan KS" to whining: "I didn't get moar miniatures."
I've been seeing more of the former than of the later.
That's a distinction without a difference. The solution to both complaints is identical, and both the "criticizers" and the "whiners" are hoping for the same thing, which is clear value for the money they invest.
Miguelsan wrote: I will add that there is a difference between reasonable criticism: "if we add shipping, and VAT the KS is not such a good deal for non-US supporters compared to the Clan KS" to whining: "I didn't get moar miniatures."
I've been seeing more of the former than of the later.
That's a distinction without a difference. The solution to both complaints is identical, and both the "criticizers" and the "whiners" are hoping for the same thing, which is clear value for the money they invest.
Actually the solution to both can be different. The former group could be resolved by the company eating part or all of the shipping costs without increasing the amount of models on offer. They could also lower shipping costs by finding a more affordable provider/partner/system. The latter group would be appeased only by increasing the number of models included.
Whilst both are after more value for money, the reasoning and motivation behind them means that there are differences in how the company could respond to resolve the issue for both.
You might also find that the former groups are more likely to cancel or not back because of that barrier, whilst more in the latter group might complain just as loudly, but will still actually back at the current state anyway. Therefore there could be more to gain in resolving issues for the former group over resolving issues for the latter group.
Actually the solution to both can be different. The former group could be resolved by the company eating part or all of the shipping costs without increasing the amount of models on offer. They could also lower shipping costs by finding a more affordable provider/partner/system. The latter group would be appeased only by increasing the number of models included.
Why would they do that? Eating inflexible costs that they're paying to a 3rd party would be more expensive than eating part of their own margin.
There's no magic courier that ships stuff for 50% of what competitors charge.
And both of those "solutions", especially the first one, would risk incensing some number of US backers who would also feel entitled to Catalyst-subsidized shipping.
Overread wrote: You might also find that the former groups are more likely to cancel or not back because of that barrier, whilst more in the latter group might complain just as loudly, but will still actually back at the current state anyway. Therefore there could be more to gain in resolving issues for the former group over resolving issues for the latter group.
I notice you had to preface those sentences with "might" (because they're weird, unsupported hypotheticals that don't hold up to logic).
In fact, I'd suggest the inverse of what you claim actually makes more sense. Many of the potential backers dealing with overseas shipping+VAT live in markets that aren't thoroughly serviced by Catalyst. One of the upsides for those backers is getting these new products hassle-free, without having to source local vendors who might deal with limited/finite inventory and probably don't slash MSRP (and ordering direct from Catalyst is a non-starter, since the default S+H in their store is insane). Meanwhile, US-based backers will eventually be able to order from domestic webstores with deep inventory who offer free shipping and a discount on MSRP. US-based backers know they'll have the sweetest deal through regular channels however long they wait, whereas many ROW backers have to consider this a one-time opportunity.
I'm evaluating this on what its offering and how much they're asking, and whether I really want or need these particular minis. That's it. I don't expect Catalyst to throw more plastic at me just because I backed, or because I feel its 'bad value'.
Is there any good breakdown for the value of the Kickstarter out there by pledge level depending on the funding end level? Like something that would show how much we would be paying per mini? I know there were spreadsheets out there but having trouble finding...
petrov27 wrote: Is there any good breakdown for the value of the Kickstarter out there by pledge level depending on the funding end level? Like something that would show how much we would be paying per mini? I know there were spreadsheets out there but having trouble finding...
