Oh good, yet another game set in the sodbuggering Horus Heresy - they've beaten that horse so much that it's nothing but glue. A glaring example of 'be careful what you wish for' if this turns out to be true; you get Epic back, but lose all but one (two at a stretch) faction.
MalusCalibur wrote: Oh good, yet another game set in the sodbuggering Horus Heresy - they've beaten that horse so much that it's nothing but glue. A glaring example of 'be careful what you wish for' if this turns out to be true; you get Epic back, but lose all but one (two at a stretch) faction.
HH started in epic, the 1st edition kicked that off when GW wanted a game but only wanted a single plastic sprue
it grew later, it could grow again, it will almost certainly get unauthorised expansions if GW don't provide them
what will likely kill it this time round is either apathy or GW seeing it cannibalise 40k sales in 28mm if this is seen as a cheaper/better game
Imperial Army sounds strange at first but in the teaser trailer there where two units with a different symbol on the Imperial Fists side which could be an Imperial Eagle so that supports this at least
Leopard - I have a feeling a strong Epic boxset could surprise GW with sales volumes. There was a good reason it was one of the 'main games' for many years, as it scratches a lot of itches; massive campaigns, mixed arms combat and huge scale. People with existing AT or AI collections will be encouraged to jump in too. And actually very simple/fast to paint (assuming they don't go silly with scale and detail on the infantry). People these days are using contrast paints and you can easily get through an infantry company in an evening, and in many ways it replicates the scale of battle much better than the 28mm game in Age of Darkness.
I did always think Apocalypse was a massively cynical re-release to attempt the scale of Epic, but completely unachievable for most gamers, and with a worse rules set.
MalusCalibur wrote: Oh good, yet another game set in the sodbuggering Horus Heresy - they've beaten that horse so much that it's nothing but glue.
Regardless of anything else, this is the best comment this thread has seen for at least a dozen pages
Pacific wrote: Leopard - I have a feeling a strong Epic boxset could surprise GW with sales volumes. There was a good reason it was one of the 'main games' for many years, as it scratches a lot of itches; massive campaigns, mixed arms combat and huge scale. People with existing AT or AI collections will be encouraged to jump in too.
Will they be, though? Probably the only AI players who can use a couple models toward this new game will be SM players. And with AT players, it's unlikely that they'll be able to field full maniples. It'll be maybe a Titan or two, and then they'll be on the hook for all the infantry, tanks and planes. I also think some folks may be underestimating the price point, but we'll have to wait and see on that.
Pacific wrote: Leopard - I have a feeling a strong Epic boxset could surprise GW with sales volumes. There was a good reason it was one of the 'main games' for many years, as it scratches a lot of itches; massive campaigns, mixed arms combat and huge scale. People with existing AT or AI collections will be encouraged to jump in too. And actually very simple/fast to paint (assuming they don't go silly with scale and detail on the infantry). People these days are using contrast paints and you can easily get through an infantry company in an evening, and in many ways it replicates the scale of battle much better than the 28mm game in Age of Darkness.
I did always think Apocalypse was a massively cynical re-release to attempt the scale of Epic, but completely unachievable for most gamers, and with a worse rules set.
MalusCalibur wrote: Oh good, yet another game set in the sodbuggering Horus Heresy - they've beaten that horse so much that it's nothing but glue.
Regardless of anything else, this is the best comment this thread has seen for at least a dozen pages
Space Marine was easily my main game for several years, my Imperial Guard was an army I was very fond of, won a local painting competition at a GW store with them, not so much because they were well painted, but because they were all painted to a decent standard when many had very quick paint jobs. I much preferred the earlier models when there was some attempt at a scale - e.g. compare the Capitol Imperialis, & Hellbore, neither of which I managed to own to some of the stuff that came later
even then painting marines to a decent standard wasn't hard, with scope to go made on them but they could look good pretty easily, and you had the impression of commanding (ok only a basic command and control mechanic with the orders) an actual army, transport vehicles mattered, the ability to re-deploy mattered, it was possible to get out of range of stuff, control board areas etc.
it worked, I think it worked well - even the long/short range stuff was good - splitting into 'soft' and 'hard' targets with weapons profiles varying by the target type was a stroke of genius
I just think its going to be limited in case it hurts more valuable 28mm sales
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Kiiroitori wrote: And what if....war in a new scale means....all huge? Like figures dread size and dreads knight size haha
The Legends of the Paintymen podcast was joking about that on their most recent podcast, the end point is shop manikins being dressed up in armour and fighting, was really funny.
It would definitely be a shock if anything other than CM was used! Every edition of Epic has used Metric.
^ I think there was a rumour somewhere of a games day or event possibly late June or July that normally includes info about specialist games. If true that's not too far away.
The rumours on epic coming did say end of year. I guess anytime from October to December could be possible.
I could definitely see them pushing The Old World in August just before AOS Sigmar and the first 40k codexes, then release Epic after them in late October/November.
"Beginning of 2024"
"Middle of 2024"
"End of 2024"
Add +1 to the year when it's obvious it won't come out at the time you said in the "rumors".
Better stop clicking on clickbait videos and wait for the only source of truth : Warhammer Community.
The rumor monger who predicted the teaser trailer did so not because he had been told the teaser was coming, but because he'd been told a release schedule, and knew that a teaser would need to show up to match that schedule. And we got the teaser.
Maybe, just maybe, in this instance the clickbsit video guy knew what he was talking about.
"Beginning of 2024"
"Middle of 2024"
"End of 2024"
Add +1 to the year when it's obvious it won't come out at the time you said in the "rumors".
Better stop clicking on clickbait videos and wait for the only source of truth : Warhammer Community.
The rumor monger who predicted the teaser trailer did so not because he had been told the teaser was coming, but because he'd been told a release schedule, and knew that a teaser would need to show up to match that schedule. And we got the teaser.
Maybe, just maybe, in this instance the clickbsit video guy knew what he was talking about.
What, you mean like for almost every single claim that person attributed to their trusted sources, dozen of times, for months now? Quit talking nonsense, that's absolutely impossible
Just being HH is a big no for me, I loved epic and titanicus but am sick to death of HH stuff, they have ruined that fluff and killed any interest I had in it. Epic needs gargants. End of.
I agree, but the only mitigating factor for that is if they use an existing ruleset like Epic Space Marine or Armageddon as the template for the new rules.
Then we can just sub in the rules from NetEpic, Net Armageddon etc.
Maybe, just maybe, in this instance the clickbsit video guy knew what he was talking about.
No he doesn't. The point of a clickbait video is to make content that you will want to see. Talking about about a schedule is as old as there are Epic rumors. Everytime someone tells them they were wrong and just pushed the dates later in the future. Then one day their "prediction" gets right and they will say "I told you" for that time - and hope you forget all the times they were wrong before.
Just stop hyping for nothing, that's my advice. When there is a confirmation on Warhammer Community is the only time you can begin to be enthousiast...and even so, I now tend to be only when the pre-orders are officially on. That stupid trailer we got at the Fest preview is not enough for me to believe, honestly. I got disappointed so many times in the past about "Epic return" topics I can't be bothered for this one.
Pacific wrote: I agree, but the only mitigating factor for that is if they use an existing ruleset like Epic Space Marine or Armageddon as the template for the new rules.
Then we can just sub in the rules from NetEpic, Net Armageddon etc.
True, we got some of that with AI and Titanicus - even though the significant difference in model size is showing when put next to the old models. But I wonder if it's really the majority or if it's more an exception. I mean, people using old systems already have 3D printing for a lot of their needs. Why bother with GW's expensive products ? You know that if Epic returns, prices for the models will be revolting. Just look at AI and Titanicus (not even talking about FW models...and we know that's where all Specialist Games will end up anyway ).
So, not to read into things too much, but a friend who owns a pretty large/successful game store, that traditionally sells a good amount of Adeptust Titanicus, just told me that when asking his distributors about restocks of the starter box, they were told the item was "no longer available".
That could mean absolutely nothing, it could mean some reboxing or sku changes... could be absolutely anything... but it is one more curiosity in the realm of "where there's smoke there's fire..."
What, you mean like for almost every single claim that person attributed to their trusted sources, dozen of times, for months now? Quit talking nonsense, that's absolutely impossible
There's a big difference between "MY SOURCE SAID THAT EPIC IS COMING OUT SOON(tm)!" and "Based on the timetable my source has given me, I predict that there will be a teaser trailer for it at the GW event next week."
Particularly when it turns out that there actually *was* what looks like a teaser trailer for Epic at the GW event the next week.
The former is the usual vague stuff that will be forgotten when it's finally time to call the rumor monger on it. The latter was a prediction with a firm and immediate expiration date, without time to be forgotten if the rumor monger was making up stuff just to grab clicks.
I've no idea what Valrak's usual hit or miss ratio on rumors is. But based on the accurate prediction of the teaser trailer, he does appear to know something about the release timetable for the upcoming game. That doesn't mean that all of his rumors should be given the same weight. As I said in a previous post, he seems to be less confident about the "Marines vs Army" prediction that he made for the starter box set.
What, you mean like for almost every single claim that person attributed to their trusted sources, dozen of times, for months now? Quit talking nonsense, that's absolutely impossible
There's a big difference between "MY SOURCE SAID THAT EPIC IS COMING OUT SOON(tm)!" and "Based on the timetable my source has given me, I predict that there will be a teaser trailer for it at the GW event next week."
Particularly when it turns out that there actually *was* what looks like a teaser trailer for Epic at the GW event the next week.
The former is the usual vague stuff that will be forgotten when it's finally time to call the rumor monger on it. The latter was a prediction with a firm and immediate expiration date, without time to be forgotten if the rumor monger was making up stuff just to grab clicks.
I've no idea what Valrak's usual hit or miss ratio on rumors is. But based on the accurate prediction of the teaser trailer, he does appear to know something about the release timetable for the upcoming game. That doesn't mean that all of his rumors should be given the same weight. As I said in a previous post, he seems to be less confident about the "Marines vs Army" prediction that he made for the starter box set.
1. Adjust your sarcasm detector, i was agreeing with you
2. I do believe in the accuracy of Valraks rumours because
3. I am literally the person running a tracker of Valrak's accuracy for some months now, and do actually know how reliable his trusted sources are (spoiler: very)
Another video, this time with rumours for a bunch of stuff: https://youtu.be/pou10BZl6tU - Jump Assault Marines are coming with the launch of the SM codex
- Jump Assault Intercessors, to be specific
- Jump Assault Captain
- Terminator Chaplain (most repeated rumour ever )
- Terminator Ancient
- Brand new Biovore for Tyranids
- New Genestealers
- Killteam/Spacehulk ambiguous mumblings
- Horus Heresy: Legion Imperialis based on Epic, but not 'officially Epic'
- Release date: at the end of summer, around same time as SM/Tyranid Stuff (doubtful)
- Warhammer: TOW
- Advises huge amount of salt: TOW launch box set is the last release of this year
- Early next year books and stuff for the non-starter ranges
Nothing really new in that video but over on Bolter&Chainsword he also said in a comment that he heard about a plastic Malcador tank for this which is interesting
Itāll be a shame if that proposed timeline is accurate.
Sandwiching epic between 10th Ed and ToW is going to squeeze available production and hit sales hard, especially with epic and ToW sharing the retro game niche.
twentypence wrote: Itāll be a shame if that proposed timeline is accurate.
Sandwiching epic between 10th Ed and ToW is going to squeeze available production and hit sales hard, especially with epic and ToW sharing the retro game niche.
They're very different games, though, aimed at very different audiences.
I just hope it won't be too long until we actually hear anything official about it.
It would probably be two different reveals, one to actually show what it is and another to show the full box. Also since it will be a new gamesystem I don't think they would only do this via a community post but in actual reveal shows.
If the rumour about end of summer (so probably September?) is true, those could be Nova and Gencon in August or maybe we'll get another summer reveal show like last year at the beginning of July?
MaxT wrote: Ok, so after all the āEpic is coming!!!1!ā statements, the latest rumour is that it isnāt in fact coming š
Although that 'not officially epic' could mean anything, from a radically different game, to something that is close but not a match to what Epic was when it stopped being released previously.
I think if it's an Epic system like for example Armageddon, but in a 30k setting, that would be very reasonable to me to call that 'Epic' especially as, as Malika pointed out, the very first edition of the game had the 30k setting.
keep in mind when Adeptus Titanicus was re-released its a table top game using dice and titans, as was the 1st edition, the games don't have much else in common
it could be that, something is coming, but it will be very different to what was Epic
I think it's probably because the marketing folks at GW understand that slapping the 'Epic" label on a game will create a lot of expectations that in this case will go unmet. It feels like this is going to be a limited-scope game compared to proper Epic, and aimed at the existing 30K community rather than the wider 40K audience.
And maybe the reason it can get squeezed between two large releases is because it isn't an overly large release itself.
gorgon wrote: I think it's probably because the marketing folks at GW understand that slapping the 'Epic" label on a game will create a lot of expectations that in this case will go unmet. It feels like this is going to be a limited-scope game compared to proper Epic, and aimed at the existing 30K community rather than the wider 40K audience.
And maybe the reason it can get squeezed between two large releases is because it isn't an overly large release itself.
Disturbingly possible, it may end up as an unsupported one-shot like e.g. Dreadfleet.
To my mind the marine vs marine rumours for a box set feel more likely than marine vs guard simply because it involves fewer sprues and less support from GW.
twentypence wrote: To my mind the marine vs marine rumours for a box set feel more likely than marine vs guard simply because it involves fewer sprues and less support from GW.
that and it fits in with the Heresy era its likely aimed at alongside the Titans
guard could, like most other factions, get what they had in 1st edition days, a plastic frame for all the "non-vehicle" stuff, though hopefully a slightly larger frame with more variations, and then another for the primary vehicles (say for IG a chimera or three, a Leman Russ, maybe an artillery chassis with a few drop on tops for it as options etc)
they are then very easy, and quite small, releases in terms of boxes later, plus the associated book
Disturbingly possible, it may end up as an unsupported one-shot like e.g. Dreadfleet.
While it's possible, I would be surprised. GW has made a point to make the titans and fliers the same scale with each other. That would suggest that they're keeping an eye toward forward compatibility with a combined arms game. While we don't know for sure what the scale will be on the new game, it would seem an awful waste on GW's part to release it at a different scale. And if they do release it at the same scale and it's a one-shot, it would be a very clear case of wasted potential. At the very least, they'd have to know that if they did just release a self-contained one-shot, players would almost immediately create house rules for adding the titans and fliers, and start demanding more product.
In short, a one-shot release would leave it in a very odd spot. That doesn't make it impossible, by any means. But it does make it less likely, imo.
Of course, the whole thing could still be moot because we're completely misreading things. We won't know until GW finally gives us more than a teaser about what it is.
schoon wrote: Just because the title of the game has changed doesn't mean that it's not based on the same system as "Epic." Not really concerned about that.
AT18 hit the shelves in August, and I'd expect this to be similar (or later).
August/September is likely when the new starter sets for 40k and new nid and marine codices come out
The Phazer wrote: Epic hasn't had Epic in the name on the box for most of its existence.
Yeah...no
Adeptus Titanicus (1988)
Space Marine: Epic Battles in the Age of Heresy (1989)
Space Marine: Epic conflict in the war-torn universe of the 41st Millennium
Epic 40,000 (1997)
Epic Armageddon (2003)
so Epic has been around for 35 years, and for checks notes...34 of those, it has had Epic "in the name on the box"
Now my maths is a little rusty but I think 34 is a bigger part of 35 than 1 is
gorgon wrote: I think it's probably because the marketing folks at GW understand that slapping the 'Epic" label on a game will create a lot of expectations that in this case will go unmet. It feels like this is going to be a limited-scope game compared to proper Epic, and aimed at the existing 30K community rather than the wider 40K audience.
Yeah I think this is the right answer. Epic was Heresy-only for a very short period, with the rest of it acting as the foundation for many of the xenos & chaos units currently seen in 40k.
GW may want to spend a while building up Heresy-era Imperial & Chaos content (and seeing how well that sells) before investing into xenos stuff under the Epic brand.
I can totally see Legiones Imperialis being just a one off box to start with, kind of like Space Hulk reissues, this would be a reissue of the original Space Marine game
Of course, it the one off does better than expected, GW will create more stuff.. but this way, they'd take minimal risk (og Space Marine game owners will autobuy just for nostalghia value) while giving more incentive for people to invest into AT18 & AI. I know I'd buy into Adeptus Titanicus if I could also field infantry and tanks, this kind of one off box would "open the floodgates"
Well, it doesn't matter what they name it, if it's 5 little guys to a base and tiny rhinos Epic is what everyone will call it.
Limited release of the sort of AT or AI, core box and then some accompanying packs with some plastics, is absolutely fine by me. Whole bunch of extra people playing Epic, and providing the rules use one of the old systems as a template (which I am optimistically taking as a given) there is a whole extra world of 3rd party and 3D print support just waiting to expand that limited official pack. And I think a lot of people will be fine with that.
I suspect that there will be a lot of NetEpic regardless since this will just be Imperium vs Imperium. Players will want to run their filthy xenos armies. But hopefully the rules will be good enough to make fun games of human interfighting, at least
The question now is how long after Leviathan we'll need to wait for the next news on this game.
Eumerin wrote: The question now is how long after Leviathan we'll need to wait for the next news on this game.
Both AT and AI had a 2-3 month quiet period after their announcement, then ramped up coverage in the month before, so Iām not expecting to hear any more until July / August.
Titanicus had an odd release, since it was initially rumored as a resin game, but interest was so high they retooled it to be plastic and thus delayed when it actually came out.
RazorEdge wrote: Someone from a german Warhammer Forum is reporting.
"Ordered a Warlord Titan for AT; got it in a white Box without AT Logo"
Interesting, they switched to boxes with a printed desing on it some time ago, there's weird stuff going on then. We also had reports of SKU numbers getting changed some time ago, it all points towards $things happening.
Ok its not probable but what if they expand legiones to include Great Crusade xenos races. So instead of getting lets say Eldar we would get Rangdan.
Not gonna happen maybe but it would be great for GW to try something different.
I think introducing a new race in a new system is generally risky - better to first do some known armies, to establish how different types of forces play and feel, before branching off into new stuff and unknown territory. Any system set in the Heresy that does not cover at least the majority of the principal factions involved (i.e. the various Imperial and Heretic factions of SM, Guard, Mechanicum and Custodes at least) does just leave money on the table in favour of risky experiments.
That being said, i could see such an approach in an (eventual) 30k Battlefleet Gothic remake - the must-dos could be completed relatively soon in that system, and leave room for juicy stuff like the Rangdan wormships or whatever.
Kanluwen wrote: The standard Warlord Titan is a Direct Only product, that's likely all that is going on.
Very likely just that but if it was the plasma warlord it could be that they will get repackaged with epic branding in a few months and they already ran out of old boxes
Kanluwen wrote: The standard Warlord Titan is a Direct Only product, that's likely all that is going on.
Very likely just that but if it was the plasma warlord it could be that they will get repackaged with epic branding in a few months and they already ran out of old boxes
I might be misremembering, but didn't they switch to black boxes with artwork on them for direct only stuff some months ago?
Ok its not probable but what if they expand legiones to include Great Crusade xenos races. So instead of getting lets say Eldar we would get Rangdan.
Not gonna happen maybe but it would be great for GW to try something different.
Xenos players will raze Nottingham to the ground if GW releases a footnote faction ahead of the staples.
If 30k Epic lands well enough, I'm sure GW would be more than willing to release a 40k version down the line and happily re-sell a fresh wave of 8mm Primaris to the Marine players while catering to everyone else along the way.
why s everyone expecting 40k when they maybe expand that new Epc Game with Xenos. They will surely expand it into the Great Crusade IF they do this. Why release Imperial Forces a second time and make the first one completely obsolete.
With that Setting, they can do much more that with the 40k Setting.
why s everyone expecting 40k when they maybe expand that new Epc Game with Xenos. They will surely expand it into the Great Crusade IF they do this. Why release Imperial Forces a second time and make the first one completely obsolete.
With that Setting, they can do much more that with the 40k Setting.
Hmm. Why's everyone expecting 40k? Good question. What could possibly lead anyone to that conclusion?
1) 40k is GW's most popular and profitable IP, while great crusade-era Xenos are a completely unknown quantity
2) There's a whole bunch of legacy Epic players with vested interests in Epic Xenos armies coming back, if they don't do it they're leaving money on the table gambling that there's enough interest in GC-era Xenos armies, Vs the proven popularity of 40k Xenos
3) They did this exact thing before. Epic(Space Marine) was a HH game, and then it transitioned to a 40k-era game the very next edition.
4) There are already designs for all the 40k Xenos races' epic-scale units. Takes a bunch of lead time off making the models if you can just go "Take this 40k unit and make it 1/4 the size" or "take this Epic unit and make it 1/3 bigger" vs starting from scratch with "What's the Laer version of a titan?" or "How to Jorgall counter armoured batallions?"
5) "We will make an obscene amount of money" beats "what if we did something new and interesting?" 99% of the time
there are many, many good reasons to assume any Epic expansion will move to 40k, and basically no good reasons to assume it'll use Great Crusade xenos races
I think 40K will naturally come up in conversation because 1) Epic has been set in the 40K universe for most of its existence, and 2) there are many more customers already attached to/familiar with the 40K factions. I also think it's clear that the lack of xenos factions has held AT back a bit.
why s everyone expecting 40k when they maybe expand that new Epc Game with Xenos. They will surely expand it into the Great Crusade IF they do this. Why release Imperial Forces a second time and make the first one completely obsolete.
With that Setting, they can do much more that with the 40k Setting.
Hmm. Why's everyone expecting 40k? Good question. What could possibly lead anyone to that conclusion?
1) 40k is GW's most popular and profitable IP, while great crusade-era Xenos are a completely unknown quantity
2) There's a whole bunch of legacy Epic players with vested interests in Epic Xenos armies coming back, if they don't do it they're leaving money on the table gambling that there's enough interest in GC-era Xenos armies, Vs the proven popularity of 40k Xenos
3) They did this exact thing before. Epic(Space Marine) was a HH game, and then it transitioned to a 40k-era game the very next edition.
4) There are already designs for all the 40k Xenos races' epic-scale units. Takes a bunch of lead time off making the models if you can just go "Take this 40k unit and make it 1/4 the size" or "take this Epic unit and make it 1/3 bigger" vs starting from scratch with "What's the Laer version of a titan?" or "How to Jorgall counter armoured batallions?"
5) "We will make an obscene amount of money" beats "what if we did something new and interesting?" 99% of the time
there are many, many good reasons to assume any Epic expansion will move to 40k, and basically no good reasons to assume it'll use Great Crusade xenos races
IMHO, if we see any 'Great Crusade' era Xenos it will be the ones that can do double duty for 40k, meaning mostly Orks for a start, possibly some Eldar, and maybe Squats/Votann before we see anything else. It's just a matter of economical viability, and designs already existing, just like you noted.
Kiiroitori wrote: Becouse we want mini carnifex and mini crisis suits and mini necron obelisks and mini defilers and mini battle sisters and mini all 40k
Just because we want these doesn't mean FW will make them. 3d printer go brrrrrrrrrr...
Pacific wrote: Yes right, I don't think many in the existing community will care that much if it doesn't get a massive range. We have several decades worth of proxies and now 3D print alternatives.
This is similar now to the amount of 'new' blood bowl players complaining about the lack of an official new Vampire team box. Everyone else that played during the years when the game was unsupported just shrugs and chooses one of the 15 different teams you have available on Comixinios or a 3D print
SamusDrake wrote: Apparently there will be news of an upcoming online preview this week, so fingers crossed...
I'd guess the new 10th ed starters and marine and nid codices as a reveal right now.
Maybe as a pre-announcement, but they have this whole thing with the 'special preview' for the winner of the Leviathan release event thingy going, i don't think we'll see substantial stuff for either SM or 'nids before that. It might just be some sort of announcement of their usual GenCon or NovaOpen preview shows, both of these are not that far off.
SamusDrake wrote: Apparently there will be news of an upcoming online preview this week, so fingers crossed...
I'd guess the new 10th ed starters and marine and nid codices as a reveal right now.
Maybe as a pre-announcement, but they have this whole thing with the 'special preview' for the winner of the Leviathan release event thingy going, i don't think we'll see substantial stuff for either SM or 'nids before that. It might just be some sort of announcement of their usual GenCon or NovaOpen preview shows, both of these are not that far off.
Yeah that doesn't end until July 9th and any preview being announced before that probably won't include much SM or Tyranid content.
At most we're likely to see the long term 40k starter set. Then there's possible previews for other game systems like AOS Cities of Sigmar, The Old World, the next KT set, aaaaaand hopefully a followup on that 'Epic' teaser.
Well, there are those who do refer to me that way!
Massively excited for a new Warcry starter set, and I'm guessing that whatever "Command Legions" is it will fall under the 30K reveals. If its a new game - Epic, for arguements sake - then they'll just do a "and finally...".
I'm as excited as that time when Jenny served up the sandwiches, in Commando!
I was screaming with excitement at the thought of Epic making a return. However, the notion of it being HH makes it a lot less appealing to me. I understand why GW would make it HH only, but I think it's the wrong call. At this point, I'm hoping that it's just HH:Apocalypse so I can ignore it and not care about it.
Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.
And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.
SamusDrake wrote: ...and I'm guessing that whatever "Command Legions" is it will fall under the 30K reveals. If its a new game - Epic, for arguements sake - then they'll just do a "and finally...".
Yeah, I'm guessing this is how it will pan out. Another tiny tease, though I'm sure it will fuel another few weeks of debate
Too much time has passed from the initial teaser, I feel like they have to show us some specifics this time around.. Either we see new models, or at least we will get a clarification of what exactly Legiones Astartes will be
given by how much time passed between first teaser of TOW until something relevant was shown, just don't expect anything as it may be years away or released in 2 months
kodos wrote: given by how much time passed between first teaser of TOW until something relevant was shown, just don't expect anything as it may be years away or released in 2 months
TOW was different to any other release in that they announced it very early.
Rumours are saying that Legion Imperialis will release at the end of summer which would be end of August/start of September. The full reveal will probably be at Gencon so its not unlikely they at least show what it is at this reveal show
given they have an 8mm terrain range and the titans I suspect there isn't much to do for a 8mm Epic release for HH, and with the tooling etc in house its not a hard one to throw at the wall and see if it sticks
it will be a weird one though for "success criteria", it needs to sell, but it needs to not be seen as something people buy instead of 28mm but in addition to
Stormonu wrote: Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.
And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.
I kinda disagree... infantry can be unassuming, but there's place for everything that comes from regular 40k and for a lot of things that are there but aren't really feasible at the scale. Yes, titans, but aircraft, big tanks, big monsters... IMHO they shine much more in Epic scale, and are easier to carry and store, to boot!
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leopard wrote: given they have an 8mm terrain range and the titans I suspect there isn't much to do for a 8mm Epic release for HH, and with the tooling etc in house its not a hard one to throw at the wall and see if it sticks
it will be a weird one though for "success criteria", it needs to sell, but it needs to not be seen as something people buy instead of 28mm but in addition to
It's funny how "space marines would be 8mm high, at the scale" has morphed into "8mm scale" >_>
Stormonu wrote: Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.
And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.
I kinda disagree... infantry can be unassuming, but there's place for everything that comes from regular 40k and for a lot of things that are there but aren't really feasible at the scale. Yes, titans, but aircraft, big tanks, big monsters... IMHO they shine much more in Epic scale, and are easier to carry and store, to boot!
Also:
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leopard wrote: given they have an 8mm terrain range and the titans I suspect there isn't much to do for a 8mm Epic release for HH, and with the tooling etc in house its not a hard one to throw at the wall and see if it sticks
it will be a weird one though for "success criteria", it needs to sell, but it needs to not be seen as something people buy instead of 28mm but in addition to
It's funny how "space marines would be 8mm high, at the scale" has morphed into "8mm scale" >_>
Great paintjob and execution, but i just hate these Imperator Titans...
But i have to agree on your take on Infantry: there's threads in this very forum where you can see what current-day miniature technology and painting techniques can deliver in Epic scale, and it's just tremendous, to the point where you can clearly recognize different armour marks, see individual rounds in ammo feeds for larger weapons, and so on.
Tsagualsa - I get what you are saying, but there are different schools of thought on that one.
Stuff like the classic Epic and some proxies these days (Vanguard and Onslaught etc) are popular because they have just a little detail. This means a) you don't need a magnifying glass to paint the super detail b) they are mega fast to paint, usually just base coat, wash, a drybrush if you are feeling adventurous.
Some of the 3D prints I think go too far with having stuff like belt buckles and teeth on Orks. Yes it's incredible how they can fit the detail on, but you'll risk going blind painting it, it makes painting in volume a chore as you're basically doing tiny 40k minis, and then the funny thing is none of that detail is visible at arm's length on a tabletop and outside of a macro lense.
My personal take is, I am sure GW will be tempted with the crazy-detail route, but I hope they resist and keep some abstraction.
Pacific wrote: Tsagualsa - I get what you are saying, but there are different schools of thought on that one.
Stuff like the classic Epic and some proxies these days (Vanguard and Onslaught etc) are popular because they have just a little detail. This means a) you don't need a magnifying glass to paint the super detail b) they are mega fast to paint, usually just base coat, wash, a drybrush if you are feeling adventurous.
Some of the 3D prints I think go too far with having stuff like belt buckles and teeth on Orks. Yes it's incredible how they can fit the detail on, but you'll risk going blind painting it, it makes painting in volume a chore as you're basically doing tiny 40k minis, and then the funny thing is none of that detail is visible at arm's length on a tabletop and outside of a macro lense.
My personal take is, I am sure GW will be tempted with the crazy-detail route, but I hope they resist and keep some abstraction.
Unfortunately I don't think they will be able to resist. If the detail is not crazy then why not just 3d print them? Also have you seen titanicus the detail is crazy.
Pacific wrote: Tsagualsa - I get what you are saying, but there are different schools of thought on that one.
Stuff like the classic Epic and some proxies these days (Vanguard and Onslaught etc) are popular because they have just a little detail. This means a) you don't need a magnifying glass to paint the super detail b) they are mega fast to paint, usually just base coat, wash, a drybrush if you are feeling adventurous.
Some of the 3D prints I think go too far with having stuff like belt buckles and teeth on Orks. Yes it's incredible how they can fit the detail on, but you'll risk going blind painting it, it makes painting in volume a chore as you're basically doing tiny 40k minis, and then the funny thing is none of that detail is visible at arm's length on a tabletop and outside of a macro lense.
My personal take is, I am sure GW will be tempted with the crazy-detail route, but I hope they resist and keep some abstraction.
Unfortunately I don't think they will be able to resist. If the detail is not crazy then why not just 3d print them? Also have you seen titanicus the detail is crazy.
You can print crazy detail no problem. More than you can do with a plastic mold, actually, if you want.
Thing is, then you have to... you know, paint it. And on infantry, over, and over, and over again, five times a base.
artific3r wrote: I just wish print lines weren't so pronounced at small scales.
AT level of detail would be ideal. I can't get over how nice those kits are.
They... aren't?
Honestly, the only print lines I can see (on the waaaaay zoomed in image, not to speak of in real life) are the ones on the base, which is printed, yeah, but separately on an fdm machine. The minis are resin printed at 20 microns per layer.
Yeah no print lines with modern AA / high res printers (the lines as stated are only on the base - you don't have to print those with FDM.)
Frankly the Aeronautica kits won me over - even over the titans, they had SO much character and were a joy to build and paint. Stunning at this scale. Old Epic scale wasn't as attractive at all to me. This is the right balance.
Why is it whenever I become interested in a game system GW has to edition up?
Jeesh!
I'm mixed about this, if it turns out to have some credibility. On one hand having a new model line would be lovely, on the other I don't want GW to have an excuse to go after the creators who have been supplying the fanbase with excellent products.
Just a thought on why a focus on Horus Heresy vs 40k as a setting. GW has been working relatively recently on a large number of 30k Astartes vehicles in CAD to make the plastic versions of the 40k kits, while a large number of the core vehicles for xenos armies are far older or even possibly pre CAD, so would require a lot more work to make, while there is a process and experience from Titan8cus in how to modify full scale kits into mini versions.
The lines were definitely a thing at one time. But a few of the modern prints I've received are as smooth as anything, if they were primed you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and plastic.
It really depends on the model I suppose. Very detailed and/or organic shapes tend to do a better job hiding lines. Tanks, bases and other large flat surfaces, not so much.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Just a thought on why a focus on Horus Heresy vs 40k as a setting. GW has been working relatively recently on a large number of 30k Astartes vehicles in CAD to make the plastic versions of the 40k kits, while a large number of the core vehicles for xenos armies are far older or even possibly pre CAD, so would require a lot more work to make, while there is a process and experience from Titan8cus in how to modify full scale kits into mini versions.
Also HH 2.0 is only a year old at this point, they probably worked on the 32mm and 8mm versions at the same time which should be even faster than scaling them down afterwards.
Pacific wrote: The lines were definitely a thing at one time. But a few of the modern prints I've received are as smooth as anything, if they were primed you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and plastic.
Its a fact that layer lines are getting way better as 3d printers got better but at the same time its also dependent on the user. Is it possible to get no noticeable layer lines on prints at that size? Yes, for sure. Is it as easy as just throwing the file into the printer and hoping for the best. Not even close.
Personally I had a resin printer for while but I have limited time and even thought I know I could reach the results I wanted from the prints, at some point the time I would need to invest into 3d printing just cut to far into my actual hobby time, you know the part that's actually fun for me.
So even thought you can print all the models yourself and you can probably get results that will be on paar with what GW will offer, the time saved and ease of use is worth it for me to buy them instead. So I'm really happy we are getting Epic back even if you could just print the stuff yourself.
And just in case GW is going completely crazy with their prices, I can still use a printing service
In absolute honesty - every time I'm post processing resin prints I wish they were plastic models instead... and then every time I'm scraping plastic mold lines I wish they were prints instead
As for layer lines, this year's printer generation is pushing 20 micron pixels even on 10" build plates. That's not gonna be visible to the naked eye even before we add antialiasing.
But you might need a gaming rig PC to slice a Baneblade at 20 microns
Stormonu wrote: Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.
And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.
Have'nt the increased size of the 40k game basically been a journey to playing the epic format at 28mm? Introduction of fliers, lords of war, twice as large armies as in 3rd edition, bigger footprints, and finally set unit sizes of 5 or 10...
Stormonu wrote: Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.
And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.
Have'nt the increased size of the 40k game basically been a journey to playing the epic format at 28mm? Introduction of fliers, lords of war, twice as large armies as in 3rd edition, bigger footprints, and finally set unit sizes of 5 or 10...
yup, and they actually had the Apoc rules set which played extremely well at 28mm with massive games as well
I do think however that for epic visual spectacle 8mm has a hell of a lot going for it, truly huge armies battling it out with all the massive toys in full place
I do think however that for epic visual spectacle 8mm has a hell of a lot going for it, truly huge armies battling it out with all the massive toys in full place
Honestly, it's more about the vehicles and titan-sized war machines. The infantry in itself tends to be "blurry" when pictures are taken to the size of the battlefield. When you zoom on individual units can you really appreciate their details, but let's be honest ; that hardly happens in an Epic-sized battle.
At least with 28/32 mm, it's a bit more than color spots on the map.
Kiiroitori wrote: But not everybody has terrain like that or is going to make it just to be appelaing
The models and thus an army take a fraction of the time to paint compared to regular 40k. That board is just a teddy bear fur mat with trees, shrubs, roads and cardboard buildings. None of that terrain was painted except for the dirt roads, which is just brown.
99% of 40k tables look terrible to begin with. Hell, even Warhammer STORES typically just have a gray table with minimal terrain. This image is taken from the wikipedia page, and even this table is more colorful than the typical one in a lgs or warhammer store...
100% agree. One of the great benefits of Epic always used to be how you could have these absolutely titanic battles (including titans!) at an affordable cost, and you could make it look good even with a token painting effort.
As a teenager.my friends and I used to play 20,000pt games over a weekend, 12ft of tabletop (a wallpapering table) with terrain from the core game and stuff we had made ourselves. It looked awesome and it was all done with pocket and paper-round money. Replicating that in 28mm, other than with one-off community games with a few loaded guys who could pay for the titans, was beyond the ken of any normal folk. And the irony was that the ruleset wasn't even as good.
The 6mm (or 6.35mm) scale also means you can use model railroad foliage for most of your terrain, and papercraft buildings are readily available or if you have a 3D printer even massive skyscrapers can fit on modest print beds. It's also easy to paint, store, and transport.
I do think however that for epic visual spectacle 8mm has a hell of a lot going for it, truly huge armies battling it out with all the massive toys in full place
Honestly, it's more about the vehicles and titan-sized war machines. The infantry in itself tends to be "blurry" when pictures are taken to the size of the battlefield. When you zoom on individual units can you really appreciate their details, but let's be honest ; that hardly happens in an Epic-sized battle.
At least with 28/32 mm, it's a bit more than color spots on the map.
Perhaps if you've zoomed out to take in the entire table.
I've seen Epic Armies from the old system with incredible amounts of detail when you zoom in on individual units.
Some incredible Titan bases for AT18 with some gorgeous detail as well.
There will certainly be folks who will appreciate (and paint!) all the detail that modern models can provide at 6/8mm.
Kiiroitori wrote: But not everybody has terrain like that or is going to make it just to be appelaing
What?!
Soooooo just like every other miniature based wargame ever made then, including 40k (which as others have pointed out have the dullest, most generic looking tables these days- especially within stores!)
I've seen Epic Armies from the old system with incredible amounts of detail when you zoom in on individual units.
Some incredible Titan bases for AT18 with some gorgeous detail as well.
There will certainly be folks who will appreciate (and paint!) all the detail that modern models can provide at 6/8mm.
Of course there will. There are already.
It's just that, at a game level, you rarely do zoom on infantry units to see details unless you specifically want to do it, because that's not the focus of this kind of game. In battle reports, to show the evolution, pictures are taken at a more global level - and infantries shows as color spots in these kind of pictures, because they're way too small to appreciate the painting.
Also, Epic level armies do mean an insane amount of infantry individual models to be painted. There will always be people to paint them with an insane amount of details for the pleasure of it, but let's be honest...it's more the exception than the rule. I tried to do that in my time...but when you have to paint 200+ 6/8mm infantry miniatures almost individually, it's often much more work than necessary for something you'll never truly appreciate in your games anyway. It's more a personnal satisfaction than anything else.
Once the Old World launches, then opportunites to see Mordheim, Man O'War and Warmaster return are more likely.
Warmaster is the most different from their usual fare. BFG and Mordheim have the highest return probabilities imho, everything set in 30k/40k has good chances to sell, and Mordheim can essentially live in the same niche as WarCry, i.e. semi-contained gang/warband boxes supported by beasts/mercenaries/dramatis personae sold separately, with the occasional box of Terrain. Not a very high risk to produce, especially if the models are useable in other games as well. Gorkamorka would need more design work to give it any appeal beyond beer&pretzels fun, and Warmaster is saddled with the double-whammy of being in a different scale and very different from what GW offers for games nowadays. Man O'War i could see, but only if BFG came before it and was succesfull. Dreadfleet seems to have aimed at the same niche, but was not really a wargame and largely forgettable. I think taking the general concept of Man O'War and putting it to work in AoS where there is more room for crazy stuff thematically and mechanically would work better than doing an old world remake of it.
There was talk that the studio was working on a Heresy-based version of BFG. I think it'd be a real mistake limiting it to Heresy factions, however.
If BFG is coming I would be surprised if there isn't at least some way to connect it to Epic for big campaigns and since that will only be HH for now I could see the same being true for BFG with both expanding to 40k together when they sell well enough, maybe even with Titanicus following too?
Not that I wouldn't want all factions directly at the start but I think its realistic if they only limit it to HH at first
I've seen Epic Armies from the old system with incredible amounts of detail when you zoom in on individual units.
Some incredible Titan bases for AT18 with some gorgeous detail as well.
There will certainly be folks who will appreciate (and paint!) all the detail that modern models can provide at 6/8mm.
Of course there will. There are already.
It's just that, at a game level, you rarely do zoom on infantry units to see details unless you specifically want to do it, because that's not the focus of this kind of game. In battle reports, to show the evolution, pictures are taken at a more global level - and infantries shows as color spots in these kind of pictures, because they're way too small to appreciate the painting.
Also, Epic level armies do mean an insane amount of infantry individual models to be painted. There will always be people to paint them with an insane amount of details for the pleasure of it, but let's be honest...it's more the exception than the rule. I tried to do that in my time...but when you have to paint 200+ 6/8mm infantry miniatures almost individually, it's often much more work than necessary for something you'll never truly appreciate in your games anyway. It's more a personnal satisfaction than anything else.
Contrast is a godsend for epic painting, especially things like marines.
kodos wrote: and like Necromunda and Kill Team, Warcry and Necromunda are very different games (same as HH and 40k)
and there is no guideline of "only 1 game per genre can exist"
Kill Team is to Warcry what Necromunda is to Mordheim
Indeed. Mordheim is much more campaign- and 'storygame'-oriented, with assumptions of a fixed gaming group or at least a circle of people all doing regular games with an ongoing 'metaplot' and advancement between them, while Killteam and WarCry are more oriented towards pick-up and single/tournament games. It's not impossible to do campaigns in these systems, but it's not their raison d'ĆŖtre.
I can't wait to see the knots people tie themselves in to claim this isn't Epic
This isn't Epic. This is going to be like "The Horus Heresy: Battalions" and won't have anything to do with the old Epic games. It will be a small counters games, with various marine models sculpted directly on the counters. We'll have cardboard chits for titans, but people will be able to 'sub' in AT models.
I just hope that they have kept to a similar enough scale/size that if they are focusing solely on the HH, that places like vanguard can continue to support us with other forces. I don't mind the HH, but its not what I'd like to see as a focus for an Epic game. But if GW are supporting marines, I don't mind buying into it to run 'official' marines against my already huge collection of Orks, Nids and others.
Sarouan wrote: Yep, we got a preview of the preview a hour before it started.
I mean, it's more ridiculous than funny at this point. Whatever.
Why so negative? It's functionally just a reminder, to get as many asses in their seats as possible at the actual reveal stream, because make-numba-look-more-good. Stirring up some hype, marketing 101. Hard to begrudge them that.
Why so negative? It's functionally just a reminder, to get as many asses in their seats as possible at the actual reveal stream, because make-numba-look-more-good. Stirring up some hype, marketing 101. Hard to begrudge them that.
If they didn't feth up the previous preview by letting down everyone on its content out of 40k, I guess they wouldn't need to make such a pathetic video to build numbers up.
Why so negative? It's functionally just a reminder, to get as many asses in their seats as possible at the actual reveal stream, because make-numba-look-more-good. Stirring up some hype, marketing 101. Hard to begrudge them that.
If they didn't feth up the previous preview by letting down everyone on its content out of 40k, I guess they wouldn't need to make such a pathetic video to build numbers up.
I'm done with hyping their BS at this point.
The current medical recommendation is that Adults should consume no more than 5000-6000mg of salt per day. Please be careful!
they do look quite nice models, will come down to price but if the models are not eye watering compared to 3d print they are nicely done
They said that they have a lot of releases planned for this, 'almost everything that's in the Heresy' was the wording. I'm sure Land Raiders will show up as one of the first releases.
So there we go, Epic (or Legions Imperialis) is confirmed.
A couple of things I have taken from it.
Scale - so a dreadnought almost the size of a 28mm marine, 8mm marines with a *lot* of detail. So they are taking the 'Wakes Emporium' route of how to do this game, I hope you enjoyed having your eyesight!
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
Pacific wrote: So there we go, Epic (or Legions Imperialis) is confirmed.
A couple of things I have taken from it.
Scale - so a dreadnought almost the size of a 28mm marine, 8mm marines with a *lot* of detail. So they are taking the 'Wakes Emporium' route of how to do this game, I hope you enjoyed having your eyesight!
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
Epic Armageddon is not a bad ruleset, pretty conductive to the 'Heresy Experience' as a whole i would say, and also at about the level of complexity they'd feel comfortable with for a mass release game. Epic 40k is 'too simple' and the older rulesets are a bit too fiddly for their liking imho.
Pacific wrote: So there we go, Epic (or Legions Imperialis) is confirmed.
A couple of things I have taken from it.
Scale - so a dreadnought almost the size of a 28mm marine, 8mm marines with a *lot* of detail. So they are taking the 'Wakes Emporium' route of how to do this game, I hope you enjoyed having your eyesight!
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
I find interesting to see that the infantry proportions are basically the regular 40k ones, meaning (for the scale) tiny, tiny heads/hands and the like. Which is... I mean, it looks cool, but it will be that much harder to paint. Also, I'd say it might have a bit too much detail, for the size (looking at the auxilia here, although as they weill be mostly printed metal I guess it's pretty doable).
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
I have no doubt that a fairly high proportion of the people buying this launch box will have enough AT titans and knights to get a full sized Epic game on day one.
Hopefully they plan to use this new system as an opportunity to explore units & concepts more comfortable in Epic scale, rather than starting by just duplicating every HH tank variant. Things like Rapier scout titans and Ordinatus engines would be amazing to see here.
The way the guys kept talking about detail levels, I think this is going to take a more high-price/boutique approach to the minis and releases. The minis themselves do look lovely and you can see the effort that has gone into painting them.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is no acknowledgement at all of proxies or 3D printing, and the prices are eye watering. So, this is to pick up those gamers that collected Epic back in the day on pocket money, those people are now grown adults who will pay Ā£200-300+ for the nostalgia factor. It can't be priced cheaply enough that AoD suffers, but I reckon that was the marketing pitch.
Iām seriously hoping the infantry attach to the sprue on the underside of their ābaseā, like old Epic. That made it super easy to paint them on the sprue, then sort out the basing.
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
I have no doubt that a fairly high proportion of the people buying this launch box will have enough AT titans and knights to get a full sized Epic game on day one
Yes although usually the GW starter boxes will have enough forces in them to have a decent-sized game, that was the point I was trying to make. So you can make some assumption of the rules format based on that.
Hm... I mean, it's pretty decent, and given how exploded everything is now in the sprues, and the scale difference with the vehicles, titans and everything, to be expected, but... even so, I can't help but feel a little bit disappointed.
Quite probably part of it is because I already have 8 Warhounds and I really need no more, even with new guns, but still ^^. The Epic 40.000 box was utterly incredible.
Iām seriously hoping the infantry attach to the sprue on the underside of their ābaseā, like old Epic. That made it super easy to paint them on the sprue, then sort out the basing.
The minis seem to be moulded at an odd angle to the sprue. Look carefully and you can see big, sloping blocks of plastic filling what would be gaps in a multipart kit. The painter has done their best to hide them, but they look pretty bad.
Iām mainly hoping that the inclusion of Solar Auxilia heralds good news to come about plastic Auxilia in the larger scale game.
MDG - well you will need to see if you can manage on public transport for a month
Albertorius - yes I think that illustrates it well really. 6 -> 8mm scale change from the old game, much less abstraction, v high detail levels. If you're painting that much detail, you won't be able to cope with the volumes of minis that the original game used.
See, August is MOT month, and I canāt be sure the Doc Mobile will pass it without some repairs.
Theyāll just have to delay it to September.
Hopefully they do a GW and put it up for pre-order on the 26th for release on the 2nd Sept, depending on when the MOT is it might give you a bit of time to save some pennies!
A lot of existing players are going to be waiting for the ruleset reveal (which there was absolutely nothing about in the reveal), if it's similar to an existing one it will be no trouble porting rules from old games into this one for Eldar, Orks etc.
I wonder though if they will have moved the rules 'off base' enough to make them unusable though. They have already done that with both the scale of the new game and round basing, which I would estimate will invalidate about 80-90% of existing armies (if you are sensitive about that sort of thing), based on what I have seen within the community.
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
I don't unfortunately. I think (off the top of my head) SM2 was Ā£50-60.
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
Epic 40k was Ā£50 I believe. I do have the price list kicking about, but only from after the box set was gone and they released the rules separately.
Was there no mention of what material the minis where? Its odd the article is only mentioning plastic sprues for things like the extra warhound weapons, but that could just be clarification as they were made in resin before.
I suspect this will be pushing ā¬200 release, they won't want it to eat into 28mm sales after all
See, August is MOT month, and I canāt be sure the Doc Mobile will pass it without some repairs.
Theyāll just have to delay it to September.
Hopefully they do a GW and put it up for pre-order on the 26th for release on the 2nd Sept, depending on when the MOT is it might give you a bit of time to save some pennies!
Thinking about it, I should be OK. If I book in for late July, Iāll have a pot of Ā£700 to pay for any work that needs doing. And the Tax falls due again 1 August.
Guess I should get on the blower to my local garage. Or seeing as itās just down the end of the road not be such a lazy anus and just take a wander.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, in terms of unit prices we may be able to form a guess based on Aeronautica.
Xiphon Interceptors are Ā£30 for 6. So I think we might see the same model count and price point for roughly same sized tanks, like Rhinos.
Fire Raptors are Ā£30 for 2, so we may see that for Land Raider and equivalent sized vehicles.
Those are my thoughts too, possibly slightly less going on the smaller vehicle size.
So definitely not going to be possible to get the volume of stuff I have for old Epic, never mind an MoT that would be equivalent of buying another vehicle!
And in terms of potential 40kification with Xenos?
Epic is a pretty easy game to expand. If what weāre seeing is them sticking with mixed infantry sprues, then most armies would only require a box or two of equivalent.
So in terms of time and effort, itās not a massive sink to get a new army out the door, especially compared to 40K as you can churn out dozens of units, without needing to do dozens of kits.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, in terms of unit prices we may be able to form a guess based on Aeronautica.
Xiphon Interceptors are Ā£30 for 6. So I think we might see the same model count and price point for roughly same sized tanks, like Rhinos.
Fire Raptors are Ā£30 for 2, so we may see that for Land Raider and equivalent sized vehicles.
I think Epic will be slightly more competitive than that because Aeronautica has different economics behind it. IA is more like Necromunda or Blood Bowl, where you can buy 1-2 boxes of models and can have a 'completed' playable force.
Meanwhile Epic requires a much wider range of models to build a fully playable army. I think we'll see some relatively good deals for things like core troops and tanks, while rarer / specialist units like planes & superheavies fetch a premium cost.
So that Warhound image they accidentally posted and took down a while back was indeed from Epic. Not looking forward to rebasing all my titans. I also wish they went with rounded square bases instead of circles.
Butā¦ no more print lines! Could not be more excited for what the future holds.
They did say you wonāt have to rebase your Titans. Essentially the thinner (shallower?) bases are a design choice to prevent Infantry looking too wee.
Having taken a closer look at the infantry, I'm perplexed by the choice of putting a tab between the model's legs. You can see those even in the group photo, and it looks pretty damn strange up close.
The bases are clearly custom, they couldn't do the old Epic style slot system in them?
Pacific wrote: I wonder though if they will have moved the rules 'off base' enough to make them unusable though. They have already done that with both the scale of the new game and round basing, which I would estimate will invalidate about 80-90% of existing armies (if you are sensitive about that sort of thing), based on what I have seen within the community.
The scale is approximately 6.35mm, about the same as the old Epic infantry, and E:A had no hard requirements for base size. I don't see any reason why old Epic armies will be unusable; though the old armor and especially Titans will be on the small side.
His Master's Voice wrote: Having taken a closer look at the infantry, I'm perplexed by the choice of putting a tab between the model's legs. You can see those even in the group photo, and it looks pretty damn strange up close.
The bases are clearly custom, they couldn't do the old Epic style slot system in them?
They have to be cognisant of the existing, proxy and 3D print options for things like basing.
Custom basing will be one other thing that can be sold as an extra, and especially if the minis are too big to fit the standard Epic basing which is already available and extremely cheap.
Even the round basing format itself is an outlier Epic-wise, I suspect we are going to see a lot more examples of that as more is revealed.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: They did say you wonāt have to rebase your Titans. Essentially the thinner (shallower?) bases are a design choice to prevent Infantry looking too wee.
So what youāre saying is, I have to rebase my titans
(Aesthetics is 99% of the reason I play this game)
His Master's Voice wrote: Having taken a closer look at the infantry, I'm perplexed by the choice of putting a tab between the model's legs. You can see those even in the group photo, and it looks pretty damn strange up close.
The bases are clearly custom, they couldn't do the old Epic style slot system in them?
That might not be there in the final product, GW production shots often are surprisingly shabby, sometimes they paint resin masters or early casts, or blue-tack stuff on, leave gaps on the models and so on, there are even a few store photos where stuff is actually broken off
His Master's Voice wrote: Having taken a closer look at the infantry, I'm perplexed by the choice of putting a tab between the model's legs. You can see those even in the group photo, and it looks pretty damn strange up close.
The bases are clearly custom, they couldn't do the old Epic style slot system in them?
Tab is there for structural integrity I reckon. Plus as youāre best off painting on sprue, it gives a better surface area to glue on to the base when ready.
I'd be all for this and I am mentally pumped but with leviathan having just arrived they've got my big hobby spend for the foreseeable until the pile of potential is sorted. So sadly the timing means this will be a "down the line" for me, especially given it needs a whole table of other terrain.
Eldar and Orks came for Epic relatively soon after. I waited for similar to happen with Adeptus Titanicus, but it didn't. So my wallet remained closed as I already had enough for Imperial vs. Chaos mirror matches.
That's what I meant when I said GW leaves money on the table. I am sure there was significant demand for Xenos forces for Adeptus Titanicus and that there would be similar for this as well.
Given that 10th edition seems to be all about the 4th Tyrannic War, Tyranids might also be a worthwhile faction to consider.
In terms of a pure Titan game, the Xenos currently lack many options. Eldar have three, Orks have (hold on) four.
And both lack the variety of weapons the Imperium and Chaos enjoy.
Now thereās absolutely nothing preventing new Titans and Weapons being added of course. But the lack of matching variety is less an issue in Epic than it is AT.
So we might well get Xenos for Epic in due course.
In terms of a pure Titan game, the Xenos currently lack many options. Eldar have three, Orks have (hold on) four.
And both lack the variety of weapons the Imperium and Chaos enjoy.
Now thereās absolutely nothing preventing new Titans and Weapons being added of course. But the lack of matching variety is less an issue in Epic than it is AT.
So we might well get Xenos for Epic in due course.
There was significant expansion in the kinds and subtypes of Imperial Titan weaponry with AT. If Xenos Titans were to be introduced, they could similarly expand out the range of options rather than just restricting to the existing already mentioned ones. GW can do more than simply re-do the past. Tyranid Titans would also be ripe for a "build your monster" rules/variety.
expect to see Codex: Imperial Administrators, with a wide range of options before "Codex: Xenos" where there is a titan choice, a large vehicle, a small vehicle and a single base of generic "Xenos infantry"
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Tab is there for structural integrity I reckon. Plus as youāre best off painting on sprue, it gives a better surface area to glue on to the base when ready.
I know what they're for, I'm wondering why the previous, visually cleaner system wasn't used instead.
I'm really not looking forward to clearing those tabs from a hundred individual infantry models.
That might not be there in the final product, GW production shots often are surprisingly shabby, sometimes they paint resin masters or early casts, or blue-tack stuff on, leave gaps on the models and so on, there are even a few store photos where stuff is actually broken off
You can see even see it here with one of the Predator tanks. The turret on the right one is a bit crooked.
But most of the time that isn't because they are shabby its more so they only need to paint a single body while still showing all the options for the webstore. For example many heads are only bluetacked on so they can switch to a helmet for photos
That might not be there in the final product, GW production shots often are surprisingly shabby, sometimes they paint resin masters or early casts, or blue-tack stuff on, leave gaps on the models and so on, there are even a few store photos where stuff is actually broken off
You can see even see it here with one of the Predator tanks. The turret on the right one is a bit crooked.
But most of the time that isn't because they are shabby its more so they only need to paint a single body while still showing all the options for the webstore. For example many heads are only bluetacked on so they can switch to a helmet for photos
Also keep in mind the āEavy Metal team paint prints, not the end kit. So droopy barrel may be an artefact of that process.
artific3r wrote: So that Warhound image they accidentally posted and took down a while back was indeed from Epic. Not looking forward to rebasing all my titans. I also wish they went with rounded square bases instead of circles.
Butā¦ no more print lines! Could not be more excited for what the future holds.
Indeed. Now you'll have mold lines and filled negative spaces instead
Also keep in mind the āEavy Metal team paint prints, not the end kit. So droopy barrel may be an artefact of that process.
Its not only the barrel if you look at the gap between the turret-dome and the body its bigger at the back so the whole turret is slightly tilted (Just as if there was a bit of bluetack below it)
If the infantry are a little bigger and more detailed than their forebears, it makes the old concept of a mini/travel version of a 28mm game seem just about viable.
Iām mainly hoping that the inclusion of Solar Auxilia heralds good news to come about plastic Auxilia in the larger scale game.
Given these start as 3d renders, I am hopeful for that as well. A new walker also just makes it feel likely. Plus, moving it to plastic will pump more life into the Heresy game, which they'll want to do as we get away from it's initial release.
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
Whatever it was, treble it (at minimum) to get the modern GW price.
As for "Legiones Imperialis"...oh good, it's the bloody Heresy again. So that's now three games perpetuating this tedious, bled-dry part of the settings' history. Just how many times does Marine Vs Marine (oh, and Not-Imperial-Guard, I suppose) need to be played out?
That's not even getting into the issues of rules quality (GW are not exactly front runners on that score), model price (I dread to think how much they'll rush you for a couple of stands of tiny infantry) or long-term support (Aeronautica says hello from the Pit of Neglect).
I really can't decide if this would be worth going all in on.
As long as I can keep using my vanguard minis alongside, I don't mind retiring my collection of original marines.
I'd not retire my vanguard minis though- I have thousands and its just too vast a collection to swap.
I would have dropped my entire collection had this been Marines Vs Orks though (or some variation). I'd had even considered selling of my entire WFB collection had this been a 40k era release.
I am glad the terrain is coming back and hopefully it will come back in discounted sets, the AT buildings are lovely but way to expensive for Epic scale battles.
I'd *love* to settle into this game as my main wargame going forward, Epic scale 40k has always been my absolute favourite 'genre'. But I just don't trust GW to not milk this release like other games they have brought back, and I'd certainly would want to know that Orks were coming at some point before spending that much time on any one game.
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
Whatever it was, treble it (at minimum) to get the modern GW price.
As for "Legiones Imperialis"...oh good, it's the bloody Heresy again. So that's now three games perpetuating this tedious, bled-dry part of the settings' history. Just how many times does Marine Vs Marine (oh, and Not-Imperial-Guard, I suppose) need to be played out?
That's not even getting into the issues of rules quality (GW are not exactly front runners on that score), model price (I dread to think how much they'll rush you for a couple of stands of tiny infantry) or long-term support (Aeronautica says hello from the Pit of Neglect).
If you don*t like the setting, the models, the rules, the prices, the support and the company, why are you even here?
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
Whatever it was, treble it (at minimum) to get the modern GW price.
As for "Legiones Imperialis"...oh good, it's the bloody Heresy again. So that's now three games perpetuating this tedious, bled-dry part of the settings' history. Just how many times does Marine Vs Marine (oh, and Not-Imperial-Guard, I suppose) need to be played out?
That's not even getting into the issues of rules quality (GW are not exactly front runners on that score), model price (I dread to think how much they'll rush you for a couple of stands of tiny infantry) or long-term support (Aeronautica says hello from the Pit of Neglect).
If you don*t like the setting, the models, the rules, the prices, the support and the company, why are you even here?
It's Legions Imperialis, the title of the game. No xenos, just Horus Heresy.
Plot twist, aeronautica was released to test the demand for xenos in this scale, not enough people bought it so they decided to stick with imperium/traitors only.
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
Whatever it was, treble it (at minimum) to get the modern GW price.
As for "Legiones Imperialis"...oh good, it's the bloody Heresy again. So that's now three games perpetuating this tedious, bled-dry part of the settings' history. Just how many times does Marine Vs Marine (oh, and Not-Imperial-Guard, I suppose) need to be played out?
That's not even getting into the issues of rules quality (GW are not exactly front runners on that score), model price (I dread to think how much they'll rush you for a couple of stands of tiny infantry) or long-term support (Aeronautica says hello from the Pit of Neglect).
If you don*t like the setting, the models, the rules, the prices, the support and the company, why are you even here?
'
Complaining about GW is primary hobby of many in dakka dakka.
Friendship ended with Warhammer 40,000. Warhammer The Horus Heresy Legions Imperialis is my best friend. I met him 2 hours ago but if anything happened to him, I would kill everyone in the room and then myself.
I hope this expresses how excited I am. I bought a bunch of Titanicus stuff and had nobody local to play against so I just paint it for fun. Now I can actually use it!
Albertorius wrote: Does anyone remember how much the old Epic 40k was on release? I kinda would like to know how much that was in today's moneys
Whatever it was, treble it (at minimum) to get the modern GW price.
As for "Legiones Imperialis"...oh good, it's the bloody Heresy again. So that's now three games perpetuating this tedious, bled-dry part of the settings' history. Just how many times does Marine Vs Marine (oh, and Not-Imperial-Guard, I suppose) need to be played out?
That's not even getting into the issues of rules quality (GW are not exactly front runners on that score), model price (I dread to think how much they'll rush you for a couple of stands of tiny infantry) or long-term support (Aeronautica says hello from the Pit of Neglect).
If you don*t like the setting, the models, the rules, the prices, the support and the company, why are you even here?
'
Complaining about GW is primary hobby of many in dakka dakka.
I just don't understand that mindset Why waste time that could be put towards something enjoyable or productive when there's literally nothing about 'the hobby' that you actually like to do? Seems stupid to me.
It's Legions Imperialis, the title of the game. No xenos, just Horus Heresy.
Plot twist, aeronautica was released to test the demand for xenos in this scale, not enough people bought it so they decided to stick with imperium/traitors only.
I'd not put that past them actually, but that would be terrible market research
Johanxp wrote: Comparing today starter box with 1997 makes no sense.
I pray for a decent ruleset instead.
Not really. The 1997 set came out at a highly inflated price for the time, yet was still pretty good value compared to many of their other games. Its still good value compared to many of their modern games. If anything, the starter box of today should be better value/better contents as they have had over 25 years to improve on it.
Whilst those new tanks are lovely models, there is no terrain in the new set, chances are there will be other books/rules that you'll need to buy, and whilst this is a guess- from the looks of the two 'opposing' forces in this new set, something tells me that the balance is going to swing towards the marines winning against a smaller amount of regular humans.
It makes perfect sense to compare this to what versions came before.
hold on...if that is the only things in the box...and a titan shoots...it will kill like 6 bases of troops so...1/4 of the army is dead...so....battles of 30min?
A Ruleset for fast and short Games, in an age with few time.
Wish they bring sperate Marines in Mk2, Mk3 & Mk4 too... - Tthey mentioned those Terminators as "Cataphractii" by their Variant - Tartaros seperate later?.
Note the Predator Commander comes in Mk2 Armour like his larger cousin.
Kiiroitori wrote: hold on...if that is the only things in the box...and a titan shoots...it will kill like 6 bases of troops so...1/4 of the army is dead...so....battles of 30min?
I'd expect it's probably not quite as much.
Also, are you doing something to make all your posts' text crazy ass big, or...
If you are, would you mind stopping? It's kind of annoying.
I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, but Ian Wood (one of the main pillars of the Epic community) has done some Geometry on the photos, based on the size of a Warhound and base, and worked out an approx size of the new infantry. In summary, they are bigger than classic Epic, but not excessively so and should match well with existing proxy ranges.
Toofast wrote: Friendship ended with Warhammer 40,000. Warhammer The Horus Heresy Legions Imperialis is my best friend. I met him 2 hours ago but if anything happened to him, I would kill everyone in the room and then myself.
I hope this expresses how excited I am. I bought a bunch of Titanicus stuff and had nobody local to play against so I just paint it for fun. Now I can actually use it!
Your Brooklyn 9.9 reference is noted, and deeply appreciated!
Tsagualsa wrote: I just don't understand that mindset Why waste time that could be put towards something enjoyable or productive when there's literally nothing about 'the hobby' that you actually like to do? Seems stupid to me.
'The hobby' extends far beyond GW, and there are still plenty of aspects I enjoy entirely unconnected to them.
Commenting on a GW release is not the exclusive territory of those in the GW sphere. Commenting on a GW release is not mandated to be positive.
The real question is, don't you have anything better to do than be snide about others solely because they have a differing opinion? I've as much right as you have to be here and express it, so perhaps give the forum policing a rest.
Kiiroitori wrote: Sorry i use the phone to see this...and some of peoples texts appears tiny while mines appears (for me) normal size but seems you see them huge
:(
No problem, it was just weirding me out ^^. I'm reading this from a PC though.
Pacific wrote: Some GREAT news for the existing community.
I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, but Ian Wood (one of the main pillars of the Epic community) has done some Geometry on the photos, based on the size of a Warhound and base, and worked out an approx size of the new infantry. In summary, they are bigger than classic Epic, but not excessively so and should match well with existing proxy ranges.
Not surprising. They scaled titans so that marines would be 8mm tall(hence idea that at was 8mm scale game...).
Note also the small box saying 'Epic scale' in the lower left.
That is the one reason why I think they are planning to expanding into 40k sometime in the future. Why give your scale a branding (especially since it isn't the actual epic scale from back in the day) if you don't use it for multiple products
tneva82 wrote: Not surprising. They scaled titans so that marines would be 8mm tall(hence idea that at was 8mm scale game...).
Yup, which IIRC comes to about 1:265 scale or 6.35-6.5mm. Old Epic infantry were 6mm, so this tracks with being just a bit larger than the old infantry but not enough to cause problems putting them side by side.
I'm pretty thrilled that the game is having Auxilia right off the bat. It's more interesting than mirror matches and those tanks look great.
Kiiroitori wrote: Sorry i use the phone to see this...and some of peoples texts appears tiny while mines appears (for me) normal size but seems you see them huge
:(
To fix the different size texts on a mobile go to 'switch theme' at the top and select a different one than 'mobile friendly'.
To fix your posts, stop putting them in giant font...
Pacific wrote: Some GREAT news for the existing community.
I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, but Ian Wood (one of the main pillars of the Epic community) has done some Geometry on the photos, based on the size of a Warhound and base, and worked out an approx size of the new infantry. In summary, they are bigger than classic Epic, but not excessively so and should match well with existing proxy ranges.
I'm reporting you to Ian!
I'd actually just seen him post this to the Epic 40k remastered page and this is looking hopeful to me! If those bases are 25mm and the heights are spot on, I even think I can squeeze most of the units on to my existing basing and use all the new sculpts alongside about 95% of my old collection.
I know some people will want to play Epic as a 'pure' GW experience, but I haven't counted myself as a 'warhammer' player for a very long time. I'm a wargamer that just happens to like Epic 40k more than other games out there. As I'm down to about 20 more necromunda miniatures left to collect to 'complete' my 95 collection, and about three units shy of owning everything I want/need for almost every WFB/AoS army I have, this is probably the only game coming that would keep my buying into GW products for the foreseeable future.
I'm just waiting for them to announce this is all resin (apart from the warhounds) and quickly change my mind on the game overall!
Note also the small box saying 'Epic scale' in the lower left.
That is the one reason why I think they are planning to expanding into 40k sometime in the future. Why give your scale a branding (especially since it isn't the actual epic scale from back in the day) if you don't use it for multiple products
It certainly seems like the next step in building Epic into it's own ecosystem. The last five years gave us terrain, titans, knights, and aircraft. The next 3-5 years looks set to build up a range of infantry, tanks, and further terrain that can all be used in games with any future xenos releases.
My big concern right now though is that this releases so soon after the new 40k edition and regular scale HH revamp. Not sure that timing gives Epic the strongest start to build on.
I'm pretty thrilled that the game is having Auxilia right off the bat. It's more interesting than mirror matches and those tanks look great.
Yeah it's a great way to add some variation to games while still allowing models to be grouped into the same collection. Hopefully they eventually get around to doing Mechanicum and Ordinatus engines too.
xttz wrote: Hopefully they eventually get around to doing Mechanicum and Ordinatus engines too.
Agreed. I would love to recreate my Mechanicum army at Epic scale.
But part of why I'm so thrilled is because I already have 3D print files for most of the Mechanicum stuff, and the EpicAU community has already made rules for Horus Heresy using the Epic:Armageddon ruleset.
So as far as I'm concerned, this is a win-win. If the game is good and GW expands it to include other factions, then awesome. If the game sucks, then I can use the availability of plastic minis to draw my buddies into an established and excellent ruleset, and 3D print all the stuff GW won't.
I was a little bit meh about Aeronautica 2.0 so I'm interested to see how exactly they're doing the rules for Epic this time around.
Pacific wrote: So there we go, Epic (or Legions Imperialis) is confirmed.
A couple of things I have taken from it.
Scale - so a dreadnought almost the size of a 28mm marine, 8mm marines with a *lot* of detail. So they are taking the 'Wakes Emporium' route of how to do this game, I hope you enjoyed having your eyesight!
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
Are you sure about the Dread size? If yes I will be able to put HH 2.0 transfers on these models as well as on the tanks.
Epic is coming home! CanĀ“t wait to get my hands on this new release but prior to that I need to build appropriate terrain.
Pacific wrote: So there we go, Epic (or Legions Imperialis) is confirmed.
A couple of things I have taken from it.
Scale - so a dreadnought almost the size of a 28mm marine, 8mm marines with a *lot* of detail. So they are taking the 'Wakes Emporium' route of how to do this game, I hope you enjoyed having your eyesight!
Minitaures in the box - combined with the round bases, there was no mention of rules but Im gonna say that rules out Epic SM/NetEpic type rules. There aren't enough minis in the box for even a half decent game of SM2, I dont think Epic 40k either - so I think this will either be based on Armageddon, or something else new entirely.
Are you sure about the Dread size? If yes I will be able to put HH 2.0 transfers on these models as well as on the tanks.
Epic is coming home! CanĀ“t wait to get my hands on this new release but prior to that I need to build appropriate terrain.
They specifically said in the video that the Contemptors would be about as large as a HH-scale marine.
Ah, the 8mm scale confusion discussion... so much wasted time on people not comprehending a throwaway WarCom comment. People on the internet are just... *chef's kiss*
This is great timing for me. I've already got a couple armies worth of Space Marines printed up. GW's price increases make the box likely not at all worth it, but I will definitely check out the rules. Not to mention this may cause some stl designers to get inspired and step up their games.
Tsagualsa wrote: They specifically said in the video that the Contemptors would be about as large as a HH-scale marine.
you sure?
because an AT Knight is about the size of a regular HH scale Marine, and a Contemptor is not Knight size
Their wording was 'these Dreadnoughts in Legion Imperialis stand a little bit shorter than a Spacemarine in Warhammer 40.000'. It's in the part of the video where they show each individual unit, when they show the Contemptors.
Tsagualsa wrote: They specifically said in the video that the Contemptors would be about as large as a HH-scale marine.
you sure?
because an AT Knight is about the size of a regular HH scale Marine, and a Contemptor is not Knight size
Their wording was 'these Dreadnoughts in Legion Imperialis stand a little bit shorter than a Spacemarine in Warhammer 40.000'. It's in the part of the video where they show each individual unit, when they show the Contemptors.
That doesn't match with pics on warhammer community from stream though.
(and would be weird size mistake as that would make contemptors questor knight size...)
Tsagualsa wrote: They specifically said in the video that the Contemptors would be about as large as a HH-scale marine.
you sure?
because an AT Knight is about the size of a regular HH scale Marine, and a Contemptor is not Knight size
Their wording was 'these Dreadnoughts in Legion Imperialis stand a little bit shorter than a Spacemarine in Warhammer 40.000'. It's in the part of the video where they show each individual unit, when they show the Contemptors.
That doesn't match with pics on warhammer community from stream though.
Has anyone heard anything about who has designed the game?
I did read one rumour that it was Jervis Johnson's last game before he retired, but no way to verify. That could mean anything, and doesn't preclude the possibility of it being a re-hash of Armageddon.
I have asked in the FB group if any of the community rules designers (from the existing net versions of NetEpic, Armageddon or Epic 40k) if they know of anything or were consulted at all during the creation of the game.
Pacific wrote: Has anyone heard anything about who has designed the game?
I did read one rumour that it was Jervis Johnson's last game before he retired, but no way to verify. That could mean anything, and doesn't preclude the possibility of it being a re-hash of Armageddon.
I have asked in the FB group if any of the community rules designers (from the existing net versions of NetEpic, Armageddon or Epic 40k) if they know of anything or were consulted at all during the creation of the game.
IIRC the thing about Jervis was from a made-up faeit212 rumour.
Strg Alt wrote: I havenĀ“t seen any gaming aids for the game so far such as dice, measuring tape (cm or inches?) templates and specific markers. So what about them?
The video in the article shows the back of the box, and includes a photo of the box contents. The classic 3 templates are shown along with whippy stick rulers and some white dice. There's also a sheet of card tokens that are hard to make any details on.
Tsagualsa wrote: So an AT scale Contemptor should be slightly more than half-as-tall as a 40k Space Marine.
that is my point, almost the size of a Marine and half the size of a Marine make a difference
because if the Contemptor is almost the Marine size, the bases in the preview are not 25mm but rather 50mm and this would change everything
so we assume the community team does not know what they are talking and the bases are 25mm
Strg Alt wrote: I havenĀ“t seen any gaming aids for the game so far such as dice, measuring tape (cm or inches?) templates and specific markers. So what about them?
The video in the article shows the back of the box, and includes a photo of the box contents. The classic 3 templates are shown along with whippy stick rulers and some white dice. There's also a sheet of card tokens that are hard to make any details on.
VAYASEN wrote: Sorry if this has been confirmed (couldnt see it). Is the box set just 1 army? They are all painted the same?
So two boxes to play a friend?
The box is practically three armies: two Titans, a small Space Marine army and a small Imperial Guard army. The game is apparently set up in a way that a 'typical' force may contain elements from several subfactions, so you can use the contents of a box as one large force or you can play SM vs. Guard with one Titan on each side.
The Adeptus Titanicus Questoris knights are about 40K marine size, so contemptors should be smaller. With the warhound as reference that appears to be correct based on the group shot.
).
