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Isn't it funny that the spin off company has more cogent and better thought out rules than the parent company? Don't get me wrong, i seriosuly love this hobby and GW has been a part of my life for over 14 years, but there needs to be some kind of tightening up of the leadership and/or dev standards. Forgeworld really does do it better, GW could learn a lot from their coller little cousin.

Posted By bigchris1313 08/15/2006 2:33 PM

The EoT is a seething mass of indignation.

Yes. That's how it always is.

Today it's worse. It's difficult to find a neutral response let alone a favourable one. Everyone thinks their army got the shaft one way or another.

Posted By yakface 08/15/2006 3:30 PM

Gabe:
As for Drop Pods, the only reason I'm not against the ruling is because of how incredibly awesome Drop Pods are for the points. Making them give up 1/2 VPs automatically actually makes them somewhat balanced (in VP games at least).

I agree.  It would be different if we were talking about something that wasn't already grossly undercosted.  Drop pods should be MORE than Rhinos as they get where they're going more often and the occupants virtually always arrive alive.  I play Marines, I own a few pods, and I don't use them because I personally feel that they are cheesy at 30 points.  This adds a bit of balance to them.

Cool. Uh...thanks. Yay? I agree with most of the rulings (being close to RAW). The one that sticks out is the terminator armor rule.

In no circumstance should a unit (no matter how good it is), upon entering play, instantly give up half of its VP's without the other playing doing anything to earn them.

What about deepstriking your units on top of enemy units (and are neither monoliths nor drop pods)?

Or off the table with anything?

When V4 Tyranid book came out, I knew I wasnt going to be fielding my tyranids in 4th. This FAQ now confirms it.

I KNOW Superiority is out very shortly and it kicks butt, hell Magnus charter makes my day.

Mass order from the Warstore for more warmachine stuff it seems.....

Anyone load up the WH FAQ? I cant get it to load....

We will know if the droppods counting as 15 VPs is a mistake if all-of-a-sudden, droppod armies cease to be a tournament choice.  But that won't happen.  Now they are still a great buy, they just aren't as efficient as they used to be.  It's also nice to the opponents who now don't have to waste any effort on actually targetting the droppods.

- Oaka

GW is very political. First they give then they take away. It is all part of their marketing strategy. No big deal on drop pods... they are still awesome in their own right. I think Tyranids got the biggest shaft.

I think Gav had his fingers in the Drop pod issue since his precious Eldar were probably getting hammered by them......

I dropped out of 40K for many reasons. These FAQs have done nothing but solidify those reasons. GW doesn't have a clue what they are doing or how to make a working game. I'll agree that the nids got shafted, but the marines got so many bonus (that they didn't need), its just sick. And if anyone thinks that 1/2 vp for drop pods or no shooting after DS speeders is a shaft against the marines, you just don't understand the idea of unit balance in this game.

Yes, the FAQ's suck, create more questions than answers, answer questions in ways that make no sense, and no, nobody is surprised.

I'd love to know why everyone thinks the space marines are unbalanced... my space marines have done nothing but get the crap kicked out of me throughout medusa V and the tau and nids are the ones who overall seem to have been doing the best at our store.... frankly none of the FAQ's really did anything for or against them because they pretty much just stated what everyone has been doing anyway as best I have seen.

Oh sure they are first place overall in Medusa V right now, but on the other hand lets take a look at how many battles they've fought... at 11:23pm CST they have fought 31,307 battles, the next closest faction is chaos at 20,752, that difference is almost as many battles as the dark eldar (4,096) and necrons (6,967) have had COMBINED. The space marines are no more broken than any other army, they simply have a much larger number of players to chose from.

And since someone will say "you're just a space marine player who hasn't played any other armies" or some such, I own and have played pretty much every army other than orks, eldar and necrons, and I've played against those quite a bit. That said, I will completely agree... orks and eldar have pretty much gotten shafted, hopefully that will be corrected soon with their new codex.

Did nothing against Tau or nids? Deathwing_Adam did you read the FAQ?? Warriors, Zoanthropes, Raveners and Lictors can all be instant killed when within synapse now. Thats a huge kick in the groing to any non-zilla playing nid force. I also know nobody that was playing it that you can instant kill at str 9+.

 

sorry I am just obviously bitter

Well, I don't think the insta-kill issue is all that bad. it stinks, but it could be worse. As for lictors, when were they ever in synapse range anyway? They are too far out to really be in synapse much as they are "loaner" units.

   As for the rest, yeah being hit with a lascannon sucks. but on the bright side at least missile launchers, dark lances, bright lances, pulse lasers, battle cannons, rokkits, and some Zap guns are MUCH less effective against warriors.

  Also, remember that the biggest problem with instakill was always the hidden powerfist. This is taken care of now.

As for the Tau, while most of the stuff was just clarifications there were a few very bad standouts. First the total nerfing of pathfinders. There is never any reason to take them anymore if the D-fish doesn't also have scout. In 1/3 of general games and half or more of games at GDs that fish will stay off the table. So what if the finders can start on the table, what the hell are they going to mark for? Where are their seekers? What you will end up with is a unit that won't actually do anything until turn 3. So much for forward scouts.

Then the second killer comes in the SM FAQ where FOTA doesn't need LOS. This totally scews JSJ, etherials, Sniper Drones, and the list goes on. Honestly these FAQs just made me sick and if I never play 40K again, I don't think I'll really be missing anything.

Actually i wasn't talking about Nids or Tau, I was talking about the space marines, nothing in the FAQ's really effected anything relating to the Space Marines in the positive or negative enough to matter to me (and probably shouldn't to anyone else).

I'd agree nids got a bit hurt, but whose going to fire a lascannon at a warrior when they can fire a lascannon at a Fex or a Hive Tyrant? and as was pointed out, how often is a lictor in synapse range? Everyone is always complaining about tau, the tau players complain they got screwed by the new codex, Everyone else complains about how the tau "break all the rules" or are overpowered or other such crap.

And i just don't see fury of the ancients being nearly the big deal that Jayden63 seems to, taken it a few times, not all that impressed with it with or without line of sight, probably won't take it again.

Folks, it's a game, there are no perfect games, anywhere. There will always be rules that are ill written, make no sense, or are about as realistic as purple grass and pink elephants. If those rules make your life so miserable that you have to complain about them constantly, then stop playing the game, it has obviously ceased to be fun for you so there is no point in you playing it anymore anyway.

Don't play the game for wins and losses (I lose far more often than I win), don't play because it is an accurate representation of war (so you're saying Mortors kill just about nothing? Wait you mean I can see the gaunt, but the rampaging carnifex over there I can't see?) . I play it because I have fun, I like the people who play at my local store (Mayhem in Ames, IA) and I enjoy painting minis (which is why I have more armies than anyone should ever need). It just doesn't matter that much.

It is with a great amount of pride that myself and our gaming group just finished our revised Tyranid Codex on the weekend, for release on the same day as these FAQ's came out. These FAQ's have only made it more abundant to myself and my gaming buddies that our revised rules are even more necessary.

BYE

Hey guys.  Yeah, I know, I haven't posted in a long damn time, although I have been lurking.  I'm not one to post complaints about GW, so instead I'll vote with my feet and my wallet.  I'm done with 40k.  This change made any tyranid list other than godzilla a liability.  I'll be giving my local playing community first stab at buying my armies, but you guys are next in line for a shot at em before I hit up bartertown and e-bay.  Depending on what happens with 7th ed Fantasy, I may be gone from that, too.

On the other hand, Battletech's re-issue is looking very good, and I've been pawing over my gen-con copy incessantly.

As for the rest, yeah being hit with a lascannon sucks. but on the bright side at least missile launchers, dark lances, bright lances, pulse lasers, battle cannons, rokkits, and some Zap guns are MUCH less effective against warriors.

All true, but the problem is that at your average tournament the total number of lascannons fielded probably outnumber all of those weapons put together by at least two to one.

I suppose I'm particularly bitter because I've defended GW's overall treatment of the 4th ed Tyranid codex and the use of Tyranid Warriors for so long. With IK immunity, I think Tyranid horde armies were still viable in competitive situations, but definitely tricky to play. While this may seem to some like a minor change, I think it's a nudge that pushes horde armies past the tipping point and makes them clearly inferior to Godzilla armies, competitively speaking.

And you might say that not everyone is interested in tournament play. That's true, but I think that what most Tyranid players wanted is not an uber-powerful competitive codex, but a codex that allows a number of different, reasonably competitive builds. Right now, what Tyranid players are left with is something like what the Orks had with Speed Freeks back in 3rd ed...a variant army type that's clearly superior to the "standard" list, which will then become almost extinct on the tournament scene. This doesn't benefit Tyranid players, it doesn't benefit other players, and it doesn't benefit the overall hobby or game.

But that's reality, so we have to deal with it. I won't be quitting the game or my Tyranids. I'll probably just field a Godzilla army when I attend tournaments. I don't really like Godzilla lists, as I think it's a distortion of what a Tyranid army is supposed to look like. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna bring a knife to a gun fight.

I have nothing more to add other than to repeat that these FAQs are a monument to GW's shameful incompetence.

And it saddens me to know that they think they're doing a great job.

Come on guys!  Don't give up on GW.  I heard they recently bought 10,000,000 chimpanzees and gave them all typewriters.  Eventually, by the law of averages, they must turn out a rules set that is coherent and workable.

[sarcasm]I know that I will continue to throw huge amounts of cash at them for the outstanding job they are doing. . . [/sarcasm]

It took me some time to make the jump to Flames of War, I didn't think I would like the genre as much but, man, I gotta tell you.  It is FAN-&^%^#%-TASTIC  to find well written rules and damn near instantaneous FAQ's on things that are unclear or poorly written.

I led the charge for people in my gaming group to try Flames of War and almost overnight we went from a 40K based group to a WWII group.  And all the rules arguments EVAPORATED.  Issues are resolved by looking up the rule in the FREE v2 rules where they are written quite clearly.

I have spent 99% of my gaming purchases this year on NON-GW products and I've never been happier.

If you are on the fence about it, Try it, you might be pleasantly suprised. . .


Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

Welp, they just ripped the heart out of my army again....

First they release that god-awful 3rd edition codex (Genestealers were useless, Shoot the Big ones, Overly complicated Custom Hive Fleet and Mutation rules) and now this..

The 4th edition codex was great. Simple, balanced, fun and every unit could be useful. Now? I'm really not sure why GW felt this change/clarification was needed. They wanted to make the mid-line creatures viable and they succeeded. Why they would go back and make them pretty much useless again baffles me.

Maybe they wanted to boost Hive Tyrant and Carnifex sales

I must be going mad.

From the Guard FAQ:

"The full cost of an Enginseer's servitors counts against his wargear limit."

I am certain that the current printing of the Guard Codex says the complete opposite of that.

"If the Rough Riders are charged, they may use the Hunting Lance. They will not get the Strength of Initative bonus but will count as having power weapons."

I am certain that the current printing of the Guard Codex says the complete opposite of that. The Codex doesn't use 'may use', it says 'must use'.

GW have once again failed the most basic prerequisite of rules writing - read the rules you wrote before answering questions about them.

BYE

Why are people acting surprised?

Why are people acting surprised?

Because a lot of us go through the RaW debates on YMDC in order to show GW how NOT to write the rules... also to show them how bad the rules are so that when they FAQ them they can shed some light... only to have them ignore 90% of it and drop the ball on the rest!


I mean they can't be THAT stupid can they?

Dice Monkey is correct, it unfortunately really is not that surprising. Despite my bellyacheing about the drop pods, which stinks for me and SM players who use them, the nids really did get it worst.

and the HMBC's point is funny, in a very black way.

Well, i still enjoy the game and wont be bailing out, but something does needs to change.

GW have once again failed the most basic prerequisite of rules writing - read the rules you wrote before answering questions about them

That almost sounds like "Anderton has once again failed the most basic prerequisite of YMDC-read the rules in the codex before answering questions about them"

I wonder if Anderton is a GW writer?



Now THAT wouldn't surprise me.

What did I expect? I expected 1/2-a$$ed FAQs that created more problems than they solved. I was not disappointed. I was not going to write a response to them, but this one really got to me...

"The full cost of an Enginseer's servitors counts against his wargear limit."

WTF??? I can't access the FAQ at work. Is this some kind of joke? My copy of the IG codex says nothing about the servitors counting towards the wargear limit. Since the Enginseer is limited to 50 points, he can never again take a full squad of 4 gun or combat servitors. The plasma cannon gun servitor is 45 points alone. What the hell? Is GW even aware of what they write? Do they even read their own books? I'd say these FAQ's were written by slowed monkeys, but that would be an insult to slowed monkeys everywhere. Even they could do better.

Please someone tell me it's wrong and this was not from the FAQ.

As for the hunting lance, the rules say "They will automatically use the lance in the first close combat they fight...". The bonus to S and I was only when they charged. So it looks like Rough Riders benefited from this ruling.


BTW GW/Jervis...what an idiotic stance to take that you will update the rules in a new codex and not FAQs. You have completely destroyed any respect I had left for you and your company. I've spent more on GW this year than WarMachine and FoW, but I feel that is about to change.

Why would you not provide a well though out and well written FAQ? Do you seriously believe that someone who doesn't have internet access (no internet, but plenty to spend on minis, hmmm) is going to be upset that they can't access the FAQ's someone else is using? This argument is absurd and has no merit. I could say that I can only afford one codex, if someone is using another codex, I cannot afford it and therefore do not have access to it. I demand that you only use an army from a codex I own so I can reference the rules. As for the other 'arguement' that updated codex books will drive sales, you are sadly mistaken. Having a coherent and well written rules system will drive sales. A well done FAQ tells people you care about the system and their feedback.

NEWS ALERT: Games Workshop UK has just purchased Dell Computers. If you have a Dell, roll a d6 to see if you battery bursts into flames. If you have a laptop with battery in danger of bursting into flames, don't worry, in about a year new laptops will be produced that don't have this problem. Everyone can simply buy a new laptop when they come out.

Hmmm...GW's 'strategy' sounds funny when you apply it to another business.

... Servitors are listed under wargear... so why wouldn't they count towards your wargear limit? It doesn't say anywhere in there that they don't.... ergo...

Posted By 2112 08/16/2006 9:50 AM

NEWS ALERT: Games Workshop UK has just purchased Dell Computers. If you have a Dell, roll a d6 to see if you battery bursts into flames. If you have a laptop with battery in danger of bursting into flames, don't worry, in about a year new laptops will be produced that don't have this problem. Everyone can simply buy a new laptop when they come out.

Hmmm...GW's 'strategy' sounds funny when you apply it to another business.

That's the funniest thing I've read all day!

 

As for the complaints about Drop Pods...

I've always given my opponents the automatic 15 VPs for each one, ever since I first used them. Its no big deal. I simply think of it as part of the cost of using them, and a small cost it is for the ability to safely drop an Assault Cannon + Heavy Flamer + DCCW wherever you need it.

Really stupid question..

What does RAW mean or stand for?