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I’m battling chaos daemons at 2k points for a league game on Tuesday. I was wondering if any experienced players had any advice. I’m using a biel tan force lead by an autarch wayleaper and farseer Skyrunner, with a unit of each aspect warrior, 2 falcons, a wave serpent, war walker, and some windriders, rangers, and guardians. I don’t have any of the big fun stuff like wraithknights, fire prisms, or d-cannons, but I’m mostly curious about what to expect. I have played against daemons in a couple editions.

If he plays current hotness be'lakor to stop shooting outside 18 and then 3-4 gd's. Loc's, bloodthirster, maybe guo, named slaanesh. Slaanesh one and thirsters hit hard, loc shoots.

He'll be putting some on reserve and fly be'lakor so that those come 6" from you for easy deep strike charges. Try to ensure be'lakor can't fly so he and/or multiple reserve units can threaten multiple units of yours with 6" deep strike charges.

So, I have to get close to Be’lakor and kill him, and then get hurt by whatever is near him? Or try to kill some of the other stuff instead, but still getting close?

10 dire avengers and 10 swooping hawks with lethal hits, maybe guide, could probably force a number of saves. Fire dragons can suicide. My falcons can drop them off and shoot. But I don’t think I can kill 3 GDs in a single turn, maybe 2 but idk. Can’t move block the flyers.

I guess I have to try to move in 18” to kill something, maybe Be’lakor, and then have certain units feed the GDs. I guess BT can fly, LoC can shoot, but the KoS can be move blocked by rangers/scorpions, if they aren’t shot down. I wonder if he’ll even be playing monsters—I imagine a lot of players are still using what they’ve had from last edition.

Screening.

Aeldari have a lot of mobile units that can easily screen out Demons (Vyper, Rangers, Hornet, War Walker). When they can get in to charge, don't give them a good target. Give up a Vyper in exchange for exposing a Bloodthirster, for example.

Guide with a Wraithknight helps immensely with all the deep strikes.

All Demons have an invulnerable save so AP is not significant.

Eliminate things like Plaguebearers. Make your opponent have to use the greater Demons to score primary and secondaries. This helps mitigate how much pressure that army can put on yours. Demon players want you to sink vast amounts of firepower into the Greater Demons while the smaller Demons score the points.

What do people think of giving Mugan Ra lone operative. IMO gives a little extra flavor too him, and anyhow I dont think 5 reapers adds much to him anyways... Feels more like a tax than anything.

All the Phoenix Lords have the same restriction sadly. Sounds cool. I used him once with 10 Dark Reapers. I was not impressed and put them all back in the case. I like the models but wish rules were more impactful.

Aye, Very unfortunate they're all so cookie cutter for having such cool models. Just glorified and over costed exarches :(

IMO Aeldari got enough mid strength weapons Dark Reapers dont fill any niche. Longer range is cool but Ra is shorter range lol and dang near 230 points is pretty heavy.

I've been toying with some options as I expect September rules/points update will have me shelf n the Yncarne and Wraithknight.

5 Corsairs give a Wave Serpent Scout 7". I can place 7 more models in the Wave Serpent. Is there something viable that can come from it is the question. My first thought was Fuegan as he has a 2+/4++/5+++ and a built in Phoenix Gem at 115 pts.

Not saying it is game winning, but thinking it may have play in a post Yncarne/Wraithknight meta.

My league game was delayed a week due to a storm knocking out the power at the hobby store.

I fought Chaos Daemons for the first time in a very long time, probably since the edition they got their own book (7th?). It was my first 2k game with Eldar and in 10th. I definitely made some mistakes, but ended up with a narrow win. The Chaos Daemons ended up being daemons of Nurgle, but the advice I got on here was still useful. The shadow of the warp stuff was not as bad as I expected, though it did do some mortals to my autarch who failed his battleshock but did survive the whole battle. It was pretty miserable trying to get kills and some of my battle plans didn't work out, like getting my fire dragons overwatched by a great unclean one, surviving with 3 guys, but failing to do even a single wound. But other things worked really well, like my autarch wayleaper distracting and wasting Rotigus' attention for the whole game, and using other units as speed bumps to slow the already slow nurgle daemon army (rangers, scorpions, dragons, & banshees).

I think I underestimated the difficulty of choosing Biel Tan and filling my army with a bunch of different unit types, because it's much harder to remember what each unit does when it's not a bunch of the same stuff. I do really like the flexibility that MSU and aspect warriors provide. I was able to focus on the units of mine that were most useful against this enemy--bright lances, lasblasters, and dire avenger catapults.

The wayleaper was by far the star of the game. The CP he generated was extremely useful and using phantasm to move out of lone operatives range after Rotigus moved away from the direction of my army for two turns in a row was great. He safely held down one flank of the board, evading Rotigus and a Great Unclean One, capturing/un-stickying an objective, and securing a secondary objective. I really like having Fate's Messenger on him rather than the Phoenix Gem--it works really well with fate dice to mitigate any damage that slips through lone operatives.

My biggest mistake--bigger than moving my fire dragons into overwatch range as my first move on turn 1--was when I forgot to disembark my dire avengers from their wave serpent in order to threaten 4+ overwatch, with lethal hits, and prepare for a turn 2 guide. I never once used my Farseer's ability to turn fate dice into a 6, and I'm not sure if guardians are really worth it for the extra fate dice, although I'm hopeful with better planning and positioning I can make better use of them both. I do think I like the Farseer Skyrunner with Windriders with Scatter Lasers. I'm not convinced shuriken cannons aren't better, but the 36" range really makes the unit feel like I can put them where I want the Farseer to be and then still be able to have plenty of good targets in the shooting phase.

There is 1 last game in this league, so I should have a new enemy in a couple days and plan to ask you guys from some advice again. Thanks!

So, as a question...can eldar big stompy be competitive in the modern meta?

i.e. ynnead, avatar, wraithknight, 4 wraithlords/seers, some zippy stuff that hits sufficiently hard or can tarpit a bit? (warlocks+farseer on bikes?) maybe double titanic instead of the daemons?

Yncarne and Wraithknight are two of the top tournament choices currently. It is anticipated to change when the September points/errata is released.

I meant more a whole hog approach. Just lean all in on the big mechs...pseudo knight list basically.

sort of a 2/4 list...just wraith knights and wraith lords vs 2 knights and 4 armigers.

You run into issue of max 3 of both.

Well albeit that's all that fits beside cheap character to fill minimum requirement

Eldar tactics are pretty boring these days: run wraithknight, win game.

Doesn't really matter what else is in the list. A single Wraithknight is enough to tip the scales massively in your favor.

If you want a do a non-wraithknight list, things get a little more interesting, but not much. Fill your list with any of the myriad Good datasheets, avoid or minimize the few Bad datasheets, and you're set.

Any advice on fighting Sisters?

Units to look out for? Prioritize/avoid? What to expect? Anything.

Again, I don’t have a wraithknight or ycharne. My swordwind contains a Wayleaper, farseer w/ windriders, each aspect warrior, rangers, guardians, war walker, falcons, and wave serpent.

Do the exorcists need LoS?

Iggy88 wrote:
Any advice on fighting Sisters?

Units to look out for? Prioritize/avoid? What to expect? Anything.

Again, I don’t have a wraithknight or ycharne. My swordwind contains a Wayleaper, farseer w/ windriders, each aspect warrior, rangers, guardians, war walker, falcons, and wave serpent.

Do the exorcists need LoS?

Pulling from all of one game's worth of experience playing against sisters in 10th... They're honestly a pretty easy matchup for us.

Most of their army is pretty short-ranged. So figure out what their heavy hitters are, and then make a point of killing those in the first couple turns. Aside from that, their low toughness and good saves make them a good target for a lot of our weapons. We're mobile enough to kite their most dangerous units. If they don't have any major melee threats, don't be afraid to toss a falcon or serpent into melee with them them to make them waste a turn disengaging or attacking a subpar target.

It sounds like you have a little bit of everything, so standard swordwind tactics apply. Put your rock into their scissors and your scissors into their paper. Don't be afraid to give up board control for a turn or 2 if it means keeping your units safe long enough to thin their ranks. If they bunch up in one area, spread out and enjoy board control. If they spread out, concentrate your forces to wipe out an isolated portion of their army each turn. Sisters are a fantastic target for our melee aspects (banshees, spears, and scorpions all wound them better than they wound marines), so you should be able to charge their shooty stuff to tie it up as long as you've already cleared their melee threats (zephyrim, paragon suits, sacrestans, repentia, or the penitent walkers).

tldr; eldar love fighting sisters. Their low toughness means our offense hits harder than it does agains tmarines. Their relatively specialized units means we can shoot the stabby and stab the shooty. Their relatively short-range and slow speed means we can pick at them from a distance and fight isolated patches of enemies if they spread out.

Thank you! That was all extremely helpful. I looked through their index after posting a realized a lot of that—namely that the t3 3+ stats they have will be really easy to target with basically everything.

A lot of the other stuff sounds like how I’ve been thinking they should be played, so that’s great to know.

I’m going to be really happy if the banshees and spears can perform well. I’m a little worried about all the flamers, but I can always just hide in the Falcon until overwatch is used.

Keep your Falcon with fire dragons ready to drop. When they come out and shoot the same target as the Falcon and get rerolling wounds (and lethal hits if you shoot the target with shroud runners) then you can definitely blow away a greater demon in one round of shooting. You’re definitely gonna lose units to melee so just make sure you position yourself conservatively with good screening units you’re willing to lose.

if illic is leading a uni of rangers, they lose the path of the outcast ability, right?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
if illic is leading a uni of rangers, they lose the path of the outcast ability, right?

Why do you think the unit loses the ability?

because every model in a unit must have an ability for it to work?

No such universal rule. Check wording. Does it say "if every model in unit has this rule then...".

Look at stealth for example.

hi guys. any post balance slate lists, ideas or impressions?

Been looking at a lot of MSU. Not sure if I can do it as Craftworld or Ynarri.

Core of the list

Yvraine
3 x 5 Shadow Spectres
3 x 5 Scourges
3 x 5 Mandrakes
3 x 10 Warp Spiders

1600 points.

Heat Lances with Melta 3 is very interesting with so much damage reduction (C'TAN and Custodes, plus S14).

11d6 Torrent hits with Devastating from each squad of Spiders hits really hard, especially with their movement.

Sarigar wrote:
Been looking at a lot of MSU. Not sure if I can do it as Craftworld or Ynarri.

Core of the list

Yvraine
3 x 5 Shadow Spectres
3 x 5 Scourges
3 x 5 Mandrakes
3 x 10 Warp Spiders

1600 points.

Heat Lances with Melta 3 is very interesting with so much damage reduction (C'TAN and Custodes, plus S14).

11d6 Torrent hits with Devastating from each squad of Spiders hits really hard, especially with their movement.

Interesting. I'd be a little concerned about having enough terrain for your spectres and scourges to both hide behind, but that's a lot of flexible dakka. If you're running the scourges with heat lances rather than dark lances, I'd think you'd maybe want a little more long-ranged anti-tank in the mix. Maybe some war walkers? Not sure what you'd be doing with Yvraine given that she can't hang out with any of the other units listed. Maybe just a brick of wraiths to march up the table and draw fire?

I've played Yvraine before. I deep strike her on her own.

I generally play on GW tourney terrain layout and move, shoot, move has not generally been an issue.

The Scourges are a mix. One unit with Dark Lances, one unit with Heat Lances but not committed on the third.

I've got 400 points left which is where I'm a bit torn.

a rules question: how does the tempest launcher work while firing indirect? I mean, it has ap1 but doesn't ignore cover. and as targets will always be in cover when shot at indirect with this i gues the svae will always be without ap, right?

unless you have vyper shenanigans or something.

Sarigar wrote:
I've played Yvraine before. I deep strike her on her own.

I generally play on GW tourney terrain layout and move, shoot, move has not generally been an issue.

The Scourges are a mix. One unit with Dark Lances, one unit with Heat Lances but not committed on the third.

I've got 400 points left which is where I'm a bit torn.

Huh. I never noticed she has deepstrike. Why does Yvraine have deepstrike?

Do we have a codex for 10th?

Yes I have been living under a rock..

 Argive wrote:
Do we have a codex for 10th?

Yes I have been living under a rock..

Not yet, but our index is pretty powerful with most units being viable for casual games if not competitive ones.