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Hello,

A Orks vs Marines campaign question.

I am sitting here painting my forces and thinking of scenarios. A fun thought would be a Iwo Jima / Okinawa type battle where the Space Marines have to battle a very determined and deeply dug in force. I am painting Orks and my mind went "Would they ever do such a thing?" You know, green skins actually building fortified defense works and sit in them!

So I am asking the community can such a scenario make "sense" on our Grim Dark world?I am ever curious of your opinions

Thanks

Your Orks digging in makes as much sense as the nonsense GWs prone to writing....
So if it works for your scenario? Do it.

Orks build lots of stuff like defensive guns and towers and walls. Sure they like being on the offence, but they will build fortresses and fortifications to hold territory and defend spots.

Where else is a Warlord going to keep all his loot and trophies safe and sound? You don't want some grot to come pinching stuff so you're gonna put it in a fort and have your best boyz defend that fort!

Whilst largely transient, Orks do build at least semi-permanent settlements, especially when a nascent Waaagh! is brewing.

Meks got to be in one place to build their Stompas and Gargants, and the Warboss (or local leader) not only needs somewhere to rally the Boyz in the area to, but ideally with some kind of fightin’ pit so who’s in charge can be rapidly, and importantly publicly “agreed upon”.

Fightin’ Pits are also a pretty solid way to let the Boyz have their fun whilst gathering for a Waaagh! or big push.

Those settlements will of course be fortified, because pretty much everything any Ork does is geared towards fighting.

For your scenario? I could easily see a Space Marine strike aimed at decapitating the Orky chain of command, and/or interfering in the building of the larger Orky war machines. Not something that will entirely halt the Orks, but a back breaker which will greatly disorganise them, giving other Imperial Forces a much easier time of wiping them out.

The canonical Gorkamorka featured a fortified stockade, so Orks absolutely believe in fortifications.

I imagine Ork field works would be...rather flamboyant. Imagine scrapyard soccer hooligans designing 1916 trench works.

Everything will be crooked, and the bunkers will have ork faces painted on them.

The novel 15 Hours has Orks engaging in trench warfare.

The Blood Axes would probably make trenches. Not good trenches but trenches nonetheless.

Thinking further, I don’t think we can rule out Orks adopting any form of warfare, if it suits their immediate needs.

Whilst often portrayed as unthinking Brutes, they’re far from unintelligent.

It’s entirely possible a Warband could lose their Trukks and other vehicles. At which point, if their foe is more mobile, digging in does make sense. Not only is fighting a mechanised foe on foot a daft idea, but fighting them from prepared positions is a decent idea. Then add in the promise of collecting scrap for the Meks to get everyone else mobile again, and there are various reasons Orks might dig in, including temporary or long term positions.

And they’ll range from Fortresses made from….whatever is on hand, to more-or-less carefully planned towns and cities, and of course my personal favourites, Roks. Because Roks are such an Orky approach to things.

The Cain book on Perlia of his first escapades there has an ork Waaagh facing off against imperial forces and the orks have extensive fortifications. They have an intrinsic understanding of warfare, and defensive works are a fundamental part of that.

The novel Warboss has a section that talks about orks digging trenches. Written sorta kinda from a Blood Axe point of view, it indicates that trench digging is very much a Blood Axe thing with other finding it a bit odd.

But I also feel like orks would be pretty receptive to the idea if a kunnin' boss framed it the right way.

Blood Axes is only wrong until their idea seems like a good one in the circumstances

Orks like a good fight. Maybe they've determined that they're fighting an enemy that is more offensive minded who likes to assault positions, so the Orks build a point that will draw in the enemy so they can have a good fight.

Or maybe Orks are in the middle of orking up a captured settlement that contains a weapons depot, and they're sticking around to play with their new toys.

Heck, maybe it's just the site of the fight where the warboss got his favorite gun and he decided to set up shop there.

I would imagine Orks dig trenches and underground works with their sappers - but I would also imagine they don't use it for WWI Trench Warfare but more the Japanese or Vietnam Tunnel Rat kind of works.

I can see ork make trenches and fortifications, as the combination of "we'z die less in trenches ta fight anotha day", the boss wanting bigger forts than the ennemy because he's meaner, the mek boyz finding the building of bastionwalls with stupidly oversized guns on them, and the fun of watching grots get buried alive while digging could all convince orks to dig in.

I don't remember the name of the book, it was about recapturing a Baneblade that belonged to Yarrick. On the desert planet, the works build a massive wall with gun emplacements. It certainly makes that works build smaller and bigger fortresses. Also the kill Team terrain some years back featured an ork building that could be arranged as a fortress

http://patatovitch.free.fr/ork_fortshaggro.htm

Fort Shaggro, from way back to the origins of orks. Maybe could be some inspiration for your campaign!

I think most structures orks build would have a fortification aspect to it - Orks love war, and they enjoy doing stuff that helps them win wars. They armour stuff up to make it look properly "orky" in their minds, but with an instinctive idea of how to do it in a reasonably effective way.

So think we can safely say that yes they can and do and it's not even particularly uncommon scenario

OP's scenario is 100% sensible scenario and indeed would be how marines would fluffwise largely be employed...Capitating strikes at enemy headquarters. Marines are designed for that.

And thus you see how smart orks are!


Instead of slogging for years all around the Galaxy trying to hunt down elusive Marines. Orks just build the biggest and the best fortress eveh! Then the Marines will all come to them!

No slogging only good fighting!

When you put it that way...

...yeah that's ork's wet dream

I thank you all for the inputs and replies. Good food for thought

As that Kill Team terrain demonstrates, Orks would definitely build trenches and other field fortifications, but they wouldn't camouflage them. They'd line them with imposing barricades, spikes and skulls on sticks, and generally advertise their presence - then blast the crap out of anyone who tried to assault them. Rather like the Orcs in 'Return of the King' lurking in the ruins of Osgiliath.

 Snord wrote:
As that Kill Team terrain demonstrates, Orks would definitely build trenches and other field fortifications, but they wouldn't camouflage them. They'd line them with imposing barricades, spikes and skulls on sticks, and generally advertise their presence - then blast the crap out of anyone who tried to assault them. Rather like the Orcs in 'Return of the King' lurking in the ruins of Osgiliath.

See I agree SOME orks would build ostentatious fortifications (including trenches) but they'd also build some to most camouflaged ones that give them the ability to beat feat into a rear charge because they're kunning gits.

Breton wrote:
See I agree SOME orks would build ostentatious fortifications (including trenches) but they'd also build some to most camouflaged ones that give them the ability to beat feat into a rear charge because they're kunning gits.

They would vary by ork affiliation. Blood Axes would have 'normal' trenches, but the flashier ones would paint them black and yellow and red, erecting giant ork faces that would get continuously shot down and put back up by countless grots.

Checkerboard parapets, anyone?

During Armageddon 3 Orks dropped Roks from orbit as drop ships and ready made fortresses.

Yeah, Orks' impulsivity can be outweighed by other things. Of course you want to get to the enemy and krump- but if said enemy is shooting at you from orbit, you'd need to build defenses and dig into the planet for survival. Though this is boring and dull and so it's usually the grots who end up making the important but dull things. On the other hand, this may give the Meks a chance to see if they can make a "drill" from a zzap gun or shokk gun.
But, Bloodaxes aside, I don't think too many orks would see an enemy and strategically NOT want to fight them unless there are extenuating circumstances, IE: "Dose daemon fings don't have da know wots ta stay around an let ya loot em!". It could be, though, that even though orks are bred for war and it makes them stronger- remember that you only get strong muscles by also letting them relax and heal. So, there could be times when they actually wait to fight. As the say- orks is neva beaten. They don't retreat, they'll just krump you later!

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Breton wrote:
See I agree SOME orks would build ostentatious fortifications (including trenches) but they'd also build some to most camouflaged ones that give them the ability to beat feat into a rear charge because they're kunning gits.

They would vary by ork affiliation. Blood Axes would have 'normal' trenches, but the flashier ones would paint them black and yellow and red, erecting giant ork faces that would get continuously shot down and put back up by countless grots.

Checkerboard parapets, anyone?

I was thinking less about the looks so much as the "intended" purpose. I think Ork trenches are about setting up the surprise charge more than hiding from opposing fire. Of course, once they're built the intended purpose goes out the window, especially with the extremes of Ork morale.

Louie N wrote:
I am painting Orks and my mind went "Would they ever do such a thing?" You know, green skins actually building fortified defense works and sit in them!

The realisation that you haven't been shelling orks scattered around the mountainside but in fact a particularly excessive camo-net thrown over the mega-gargant they were building...

I suspect one of the frustrating things about fighting Orks is they’ll do Sensible Military Stuff not only when you least expect it, but in ways you never thought of.

Brutal and Kunnin’. Kunnin’ and Brutal.

They can and do build fortifications as well covered above. But that doesn’t mean their entire force castles up. Some will, sure. Others will go roving on wheels or on foot. Any time you catch them out of position it’s hard to say if it’s because their enthusiasm got the better of them, or because it’s a shockingly clever trap to bait you.