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and see how Catalyst resolves its issues, and handles ‘customer service’. Years after the close and shipping, people were still waiting or got incorrect product. Clan Invasion made a ton of promises to backers, some of which Catalyst
never fulfilled, of just dropped when it was inconvenient for them to have to actually do some work. Now they had every intention of screwing people on shipping for mercenaries, until there was an outcry. The ‘adjustments’ are still a joke. There’s pretty much no reason to back their Kickstarter. It rewards their incompetence, and is minimal at best savings over retail. I’ll deal with less product being made, and the risks borne by Catalyst, instead of me.
So... you didn't participate in this kickstarter, and are just here to complain about the last couple kickstarters?
I don't think it's invalid to look at a company's past Kickstarter experiences when making a decision about participating in their next KS campaign... I missed the CI campaign as well and was super excited for Mercs, but things like the dice credits and still pending written content rewards gave me pause and now that we're in this shipping mess they make me wish I'd considered those issues a bit more.
and see how Catalyst resolves its issues, and handles ‘customer service’. Years after the close and shipping, people were still waiting or got incorrect product. Clan Invasion made a ton of promises to backers, some of which Catalyst
never fulfilled, of just dropped when it was inconvenient for them to have to actually do some work. Now they had every intention of screwing people on shipping for mercenaries, until there was an outcry. The ‘adjustments’ are still a joke. There’s pretty much no reason to back their Kickstarter. It rewards their incompetence, and is minimal at best savings over retail. I’ll deal with less product being made, and the risks borne by Catalyst, instead of me.
So... you didn't participate in this kickstarter, and are just here to complain about the last couple kickstarters?
That right - I did not participate in Mercenaries. Because Catalyst has a demonstrable record in Shadowrun and Clan Invasion of treating backers like garbage when it suits them, and being weasels in general. I’m glad Battletech is alive. I’m sorry it’s through CGL.
I think my postage has been updated, but I've not had a notification yet. For me at least, the overall pledge cost including postage and tax is still favourable compared to local discount retailers.
I do agree that CGL are a bunch of muppets that have not taken adequate care given the scale of the operation, and their previous experience in such campaigns.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Flinty wrote: I think my postage has been updated, but I've not had a notification yet.
It was noted by Rem in this week's Tuesday Newsday that they won't send an update until everything is uploaded and tweaked. I myself have not seen an update on shipping since they zeroed out all of the accounts and it is still showing that I have a shipping total of $0.00 and others in the Kickstarter comments have said the same.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I backed the clan invasion campaign, had a couple issues with my pledge when it delivered, catalysts customer service did great by me and sent me the missing items quickly and at no cost to myself. They even sent me an entire extra force pack at no cost because one mech in the box I received was damaged, got to keep the original I received and was able to repair the one damaged Mech too.
It's almost like basing your assessment of their performance by a handful of loud complaints (the circumstances and specifics of which you know nothing about) as opposed to the literal thousands of backers who've had no issues whatsoever is a way to get a flawed and skewed perspective.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
I'm glad I backed out of this kickstarter. A friend of mine did not, and doing the calculation, he's basically paying more than I will at retail when these hit. Christ, what a mess. Oh well, just remember that CGL couldn't give less of a feth at least they banned all the bad people
CaptainKlang wrote: I'm glad I backed out of this kickstarter. A friend of mine did not, and doing the calculation, he's basically paying more than I will at retail when these hit. Christ, what a mess. Oh well, just remember that CGL couldn't give less of a feth at least they banned all the bad people
His current shipping estimate may not be his final shipping charges.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Some quick math suggests I landed around a 20% discount over msrp, so I actually probably made out really well as there's a lot I'm not including in that estimation, and I'd probably need to pay taxes/shipping on top of the discounted retail price as well.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
My shipping charges have updated and are less than half of what they were (they were over $240 before, now down to ~$80). Colour me happy, as it seems like a reasonable amount given the size of my order and the interesting times we live in. I've paid more for shipping on smaller orders than this, so I'm still ahead of what I would be paying at retail for this.
Where are you guys shopping online that would charge anywhere close to that for shipping? Most online retailers not only offer a discount but either free shipping or reduced shipping over a certain amount, which the highest I have seen is around 200 USD.
I have a lot of trouble understanding these claims of high shipping being reasonable, when it clearly is not....
caladancid wrote: Where are you guys shopping online that would charge anywhere close to that for shipping? Most online retailers not only offer a discount but either free shipping or reduced shipping over a certain amount, which the highest I have seen is around 200 USD.
I have a lot of trouble understanding these claims of high shipping being reasonable, when it clearly is not....
This is probably the thing that bugs me the most.
The end result of "we will secure local shipping hubs" ended up being shipping charges that, in many cases, dwarf the standard rates offered by domestic postal services and/or couriers.
If that was going to be the reality it really seems like someone should have been able to figure that out earlier and say so, so that people could make an informed choice about waiting for retail. Nobody in their right mind expected "local hubs" to translate to "> post office x2"
Yeah, I can order four lance packs from Gamenerdz and get free shipping. And for all future Battletech releases, I will be.
It's a bad look, obviously for people hit with a triple digit bill who can't just swing that like it's nothing, it's got to be infuriating. The furor will pass, but like my friend mentioned to me after a certain incident with one of their authors, it spends all of the goodwill they have with a lot of customers. For many it's going to be more business, 'no benefit of the doubt, no charitable purchasing because I like the company, I'll buy it if it's great, I'll skip it if it's not.'
caladancid wrote: Where are you guys shopping online that would charge anywhere close to that for shipping? Most online retailers not only offer a discount but either free shipping or reduced shipping over a certain amount, which the highest I have seen is around 200 USD.
I have a lot of trouble understanding these claims of high shipping being reasonable, when it clearly is not....
Standard shipping here is 5-15€ for small package
like some paint pots get me 5€ shipping (including tax), 2 boxes are 10€ and non-standard sized board games 15€, free shipping usually starts at 50-100€
exceptions are bulky or oversized items which are charged differently and get ~40-50€ shipping with either no free shipping or value being much higher
(so it can be cheaper to have several small orders instead of one big package)
for non-domestic shipping, it gets interesting as the basic value already vary between 5€-25€ with some charging 25€ no matter what as minimum
UK shipping often being % of order with a minimum value so for larger orders shipping can get expensive, while bulky items can get you a 100€ charge for special delivery service
like the most ridiculous shipping I paid was 30€ on a 3€ item because I ordered acrylic rods to base flyers which were too long so I had to pay the extra costs on receiving the item.
Overall there is a certain risk with Kickstarters involved as no one really knows the how shipping is being handled as even if local hubs are promised there is no guarantee that the company they have contracted still exists 2 years later or still operates those hubs
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
caladancid wrote: Where are you guys shopping online that would charge anywhere close to that for shipping? Most online retailers not only offer a discount but either free shipping or reduced shipping over a certain amount, which the highest I have seen is around 200 USD.
I have a lot of trouble understanding these claims of high shipping being reasonable, when it clearly is not....
Honestly I've seen similarish values of high shipping costs from a good few kickstarters when they have to come from the USA to the UK. It does seem that these one-off big shipping movements get priced very high for people. I've seen KS books that cost more than the book in shipping to get to the UK if ordered through the KS, only to see them at a regular book price when they go retail in the UK (which means that they must have gotten a much cheaper shipping cost to make it viable).
Now sometimes its also inexperience on the part of the KS organisers that lands them in a higher price bracket or with a more costly firm. I think that there's also picking elements that some use so the shipping firm isn't just posting, but also plucking product out of boxes to pack up individually for the customers; which I think further adds a big cost, esp for KS with a lot of components.
As you say regular retail outlets aren't charging this much and firms like Ebay and Amazon are building international systems that are letting them move stuff USA to UK very cheaply (though I note that every time I get a USA Amazon parcel the first leg is Amazon and then the local delivery is done by Hermes...). But these one-off KS deliveries from books to boxes seem to have to pick up a huge charge.
Nothing like the first quotations they got of course, those were totally bonkers
@Overread - While that may be the case for other Kickstarters, the whole point here is that Catalyst were supposed to pick up the international leg to distribution centres.
Royal Mail parcel prices for 20kg and a large-ish box is less than £10. The £44 that is currently my postage charge is quoted by Parcelforce for a 30kg parcel of 2.5m dimension on a 48 hour delivery. Move down to a maximum of 1.5m in length, and the same 30kg and 48hour comes in at about £12. I mean thre is quite a bit of stuff in my order, but 1.5m is really quite big.
I have flipped flopped around a bit about my reaction to this, and at the moment I'm on the grumpy side that CGL have put bugger all effort into sorting reasonable delivery charges. While taken as a whole I'm still happy that the value I'm getting in the plastic is still there, I'm basically losing out on a forcepack due to overly simplistic assumptions being made by CGL on postage that will basically be going straight into QML's bottom line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/05/03 11:23:16
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
frankelee wrote: Yeah, I can order four lance packs from Gamenerdz and get free shipping. And for all future Battletech releases, I will be.
It's a bad look, obviously for people hit with a triple digit bill who can't just swing that like it's nothing, it's got to be infuriating. The furor will pass, but like my friend mentioned to me after a certain incident with one of their authors, it spends all of the goodwill they have with a lot of customers. For many it's going to be more business, 'no benefit of the doubt, no charitable purchasing because I like the company, I'll buy it if it's great, I'll skip it if it's not.'
Agreed. They even said during the KS, if you want a discount wait for retail. I shall do so in the future, as I no longer trust them. And they've burned enough goodwill with me, I will review my potential BT and Alpha Strike purchases VERY closely: no more, "hey why not?' and impulse buy it.
Sean: Ray, you mentioned there’s another Kickstarter coming, maybe. You’ve had the Clan Invasion, you’ve had the Mercenaries Kickstarters, both of these were huge successes. Is it safe to say that these kind of big blowout product releases are going to be done via Kickstarter going forward?
Ray: No.
Sean: No?
Ray: That’s not destined. We’re not working towards the next Kickstarter yet. There won’t be a Kickstarter for BattleTech this year. But we are discussing doing smaller, focused ones, non-miniature Kickstarters. We have other games for the BattleTech IP in development that may go the way of Kickstarter. Aaron pitched something brilliant that I think would work for Kickstarter, but it’s not happening this year. So to say that the next Kickstarter would be something like Clan Invasion or Mercenaries, that’s not guaranteed.
Aaron: We’ve learned our lesson, I think. Or at least, certainly Ray and I have learned it, and I think I can speak for the rest of the team, too. These big Kickstarters are very exciting, they generate a ton of enthusiasm for the brand, they generate a ton of money, but they are almost debilitating, and there’s somewhat of a diminishing return.
Obviously, that did not play out with Mercenaries, but to Ray’s point when you asked him about favorite ‘Mechs, we’ve already hit a lot of the big ones, so you’re trying to get people hyped about an increasingly smaller popularity base for some of these minis. I think it makes sense to start to transition towards something more sustainable where we’re getting like booster-sized Kickstarters. Things that will get a little bit of excitement, but we’re also keeping in mind a more normalized production schedule.
I think the problems with this Kickstarter and the Kerensky Con news definitely puts the final nail in the coffin for the big Kickstarters such as Clan Invasion and Mercenaries. Moving forward I wouldn't expect more than the side games or booster-sized Kickstarters mentioned above (unless they finally get a relaunch of AeroSpace ready to go ).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/05/03 17:23:17
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Graphite wrote: My shipping seems to be $26 on a Company pledge with a couple of extra bits, plus $5 VAT on the shipping, which converts to £25
Which seems steep, but not abominably so. Unless it gets changed again.
Before they zeroed them out in early April, my shipping charges for a Company pledge with an additional challenge coin and Blood Asp was $44.66 (including the 6% state sales tax).
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
My shipping went down a staggering 3$ from 78$ to 75$ on a company pledge plus some extras. I call that a resounding success.
I'm not sure if I want to bother contacting Catalyst but very sure that next Catalyst's KS needs to be heavily discounted for me to support them again.
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
The shipping definitely hurts the value, and the value was especially bad for a lot of levels before they added extra packs of minis for stretch goals.
That all said my Battalion pledge, +2 extra packs, + extra swag + shipping was still a pretty good deal. After shipping I am basically getting the Mercenaries Boxed Set, one force pack, and all the Swag/Ebooks/Map Packs for free. With normal online discounters I probably wouldn't have had to pay for shipping and could probably get everything but the swag for a similar price......so I'll call that a win assuming they deliver on time.
My shipping is nearly 50% of the cost of my pledge. A $150 company pledge, a force pack and Alpha strike counters is costing me $60.
If I were to buy all of this at my LGS, it would cost me $300. I didn’t count the dice, pin and coin, along with the posters as part of the cost. But I also don’t really care about those, so they provide almost zero value.
In the end, I saved maybe $30 over retail.With savings that small, I’ll just buy anything else through my LGS
New Shadowrun Actual Play: World of Shadows on Six Sides of Gaming!
Friend of Catalyst, and prolific sci-fi/fantasy writer Kevin J. Anderson has a new Kickstarter launching today!
EDIT: Rem has noted that there will be a Kickstarter update coming TODAY covering state tax adjustments, shipping subsidies and getting ready to charge for shipping.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/05/07 20:18:27
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I feel pretty fortunate. I had nothing but good experiences on the Clan Invasion KS, but this one had me a little nervous for a while. $150 Company pledge +Sommerset Strikers pack+ Alpha Strike rulebook was only $36 shipping, and I still had $50 credit from the first KS that they automatically applied, I neither knew about it nor asked for it until it showed up on my survey. That covered Apha Strike book and some shipping, so altogether I'm $180 out of pocket for about $300 worth of product and some KS swag I don't particularly care about (challenge coins etc). I DO care about the free double-scale Madcat, that should be fun to paint.
I'm relieved it worked out for me, but I understand why people are still so upset. Some of those shipping costs are absolutely crazy even after the revisions. I don't think I'll be gambling on any future kickstarters from CGL.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/05/08 18:37:41
Update #90 - CGL did all they could, then realized there were far more States than they thought not charging Shipping Tax. Outside of that, what you see is what you pay, sorry we tried.
Also, if you really hate your S&H amount, send us a message and tell us you're poor. We might be able to help.
Something is happening on the 24th, we sent you a poster.
> so a big "problem" of this KS is that companies should pay taxes but avoided doing it in the past to sell the product cheaper and now the company that pays the taxes gets blamed that they should not do it?
Yup. :/ Same thing happened to VAT, with CMON being the first company to enforce VAT and explicitly pass it onto customers.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
at least they banned all the bad people
Deathwatch 
AdMech 
Necron
