Necron Deathmarks vs Space Marine Drop Pods

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**TomWilton**

It has already been established that Deathmarks can not target troops as they land from a Drop Pod.
But they can shoot at the Drop Pod itself ...

With a Canoptek Court 3+ re-rolled to hit, and a 5+ to wound, and a 5+ save, and at 2 damage per shot. approximately how many Deathmarks would be required to mathhammer their way to exploding the Drop Pod before it can disembark its cargo?

Thank you.

**JNAProductions**

Four failed saves is what is needed.
4*3/2*3*9/8 is the formula.

20.25 Deathmark shots will, on average, kill a Drop Pod.

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

**TomWilton**

JNAProductions wrote:
Four failed saves is what is needed.
4*3/2*3*9/8 is the formula.

20.25 Deathmark shots will, on average, kill a Drop Pod.

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

Thanks. I needed that.

**ccs**

JNAProductions wrote:

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

Sure. But some of them might die.

**JNAProductions**

ccs wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

Sure. But some of them might die.

Would they be bound by the Drop Pod’s disembarkation restrictions?
If they’re a short range unit, it might help more than hurt.

**ccs**

JNAProductions wrote:
ccs wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

Sure. But some of them might die.

Would they be bound by the Drop Pod’s disembarkation restrictions?
If they’re a short range unit, it might help more than hurt.

I wouldn't think so as they are NOT deploying via the pods/DS rules.

But here's how I'd play it.
●Against about 60% of the people I play with I'd just deploy the survivors 9"+ away as normal & skip any debate. Gaining around an inch & a half just wouldn't be worth the argument phase that would be triggered....
●Against the other 40%? The survivors would gain a few inches. (Probably only about 1.5" as the pod had to land far enough back to allow the unit to be right on the 9" + xMM line to begin with.) Then we'd have a laugh about the advantage I'd just gained & the oddities of the rules.

**Haighus**

ccs wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
ccs wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

Sure. But some of them might die.

Would they be bound by the Drop Pod’s disembarkation restrictions?
If they’re a short range unit, it might help more than hurt.

I wouldn't think so as they are NOT deploying via the pods/DS rules.

But here's how I'd play it.
●Against about 60% of the people I play with I'd just deploy the survivors 9"+ away as normal & skip any debate. Gaining around an inch & a half just wouldn't be worth the argument phase that would be triggered....
●Against the other 40%? The survivors would gain a few inches. (Probably only about 1.5" as the pod had to land far enough back to allow the unit to be right on the 9" + xMM line to begin with.) Then we'd have a laugh about the advantage I'd just gained & the oddities of the rules.

This generates the cinematic and amusing image of Marines leaping from their drop pod in the sky and plummeting to earth, arriving slightly closer to their targets as a few splat to death amidst the drop pod wreckage raining down. Very Expendables

**TomWilton**

Haighus wrote:
ccs wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
ccs wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

Sure. But some of them might die.

Would they be bound by the Drop Pod’s disembarkation restrictions?
If they’re a short range unit, it might help more than hurt.

I wouldn't think so as they are NOT deploying via the pods/DS rules.

But here's how I'd play it.
●Against about 60% of the people I play with I'd just deploy the survivors 9"+ away as normal & skip any debate. Gaining around an inch & a half just wouldn't be worth the argument phase that would be triggered....
●Against the other 40%? The survivors would gain a few inches. (Probably only about 1.5" as the pod had to land far enough back to allow the unit to be right on the 9" + xMM line to begin with.) Then we'd have a laugh about the advantage I'd just gained & the oddities of the rules.

This generates the cinematic and amusing image of Marines leaping from their drop pod in the sky and plummeting to earth, arriving slightly closer to their targets as a few splat to death amidst the drop pod wreckage raining down. Very Expendables

Is there no restrictions on troops emergency disembarking on their own turn RAW, as to subsequent actions or phases taken that turn, not even automatic battle shock? Sounds suspicious that they would suffer no penalty at all RAI.

**Breton**

JNAProductions wrote:
Four failed saves is what is needed.
4*3/2*3*9/8 is the formula.

20.25 Deathmark shots will, on average, kill a Drop Pod.

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

I'd guess there's some Order of Operations going on.

Drop Pod Lands triggering two things:

Deathmark shooting, and IMMEDIATELY disembarkation of the models in the Pod. Deathmark shooting doesn't say immediately so I'd say the Order is:

Set Up Drop Pod,
Deathmarks have an option to shoot but resolution comes after
the immediate disembarkation of the unit(s) in the Pod.

**ccs**

Breton wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
Four failed saves is what is needed.
4*3/2*3*9/8 is the formula.

20.25 Deathmark shots will, on average, kill a Drop Pod.

But if it’s destroyed, don’t they just emergency disembark anyway?

I'd guess there's some Order of Operations going on.

Drop Pod Lands triggering two things:

Deathmark shooting, and IMMEDIATELY disembarkation of the models in the Pod. Deathmark shooting doesn't say immediately so I'd say the Order is:

Set Up Drop Pod,
Deathmarks have an option to shoot but resolution comes after
the immediate disembarkation of the unit(s) in the Pod.

That depends upon your reading of immediately.
You can read it your way.
Or you can read it to mean the unit must disembark this turn, and now, before you move on to activating a different unit - vs some other transport (say a Rhino) where you can move it, move something else, move a 3rd unit, & then come back & disembark the transported unit.

**Breton**

Well its the same way similar immediately vs not immediately was resolved in the past and we have the same sequencing rule as we did in 9th.

10th Ed Core Rules wrote:SEQUENCING
While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that
two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time. If this
occurs during the battle, the player whose turn it is chooses the
order. If this occurs before or after the battle, or at the start or
end of a battle round, the players roll off and the winner decides
the order in which those rules are resolved

Goonhammer review of this situation in 9th wrote:Immediately
Immediately is sort of a “modifier” in 40k rules; it changes a rule’s priority. None of this is very well defined mind, and if both rules have the wording you default back to “the active/current player decides.” The source for Immediately having this impact is in the Glossary:

Immediately: See ‘When’.

Yeah… and then ‘When’ is defined as:

When: If a rule states that it takes place when a certain trigger occurs, unless otherwise specified, that rule takes effect before any others.

Which mostly establishes that any rules preceded by when or immediately occur before any other rules that don’t. A good example of a non-immediate rule is Necron Reanimation Protocols:

NECRON REANIMATION PROTOCOLS
Each time an enemy unit shoots or fights, after it makes its attacks, if any models in this unit were destroyed as a result of those attacks but this unit was not destroyed, this unit’s reanimation protocols are enacted and those destroyed models begin to reassemble.

Each time a unit’s reanimation protocols are enacted, make Reanimation Protocol rolls for that unit by rolling a number of D6 equal to the combined Wounds characteristics of all the reassembling models. Each Reanimation Protocol roll of 5+ is put into a pool. A Reanimation Protocol roll can never be modified by more than -1 or +1.

The fact that this isn’t immediately after the attacks have been resolved lets any of the shooting unit’s rules which happen after attacks be used before applying Reanimation Protocols, such as perhaps using an Armorium Cherub:

Once per battle, in your Shooting phase, after this unit has shot, one model in this unit can immediately shoot with one of its ranged weapons again. If this unit has two armorium cherubs, it can use this ability twice per battle, but only once per turn.

As these extra attacks are “immediately” done they would be resolved before Reanimation Protocols. Something that probably seems totally normal but is actually established by the timing terminology used.

So that’s how I got to the order I suggested before – because the Votann stratagem says their shooting happens immediately it is resolved before the Tau unit can use the movement part of their stratagem.