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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

I took this list to an RTT this last weekend. This is not much of a bat rep, but trying to find a way to make this list better.

I had:

I took my Eldar Army down there:
Farseer w/Fortune and Doom, and every upgrade but Jetbike.
Avatar

6 Banshees Exarch w/Executioner

10 Dire Avengers Exarch w/Twin SC+Bladestorm
10 Dire Avengers Exarch w/Power Weapon+Shimmer Shield and Defend

10 Guardians w/Bright lance w/Warlock w/Spear and Conceal
10 Guardians w/Bright lance w/Warlock and Conceal
10 Guardians w/Bright lance

1 Vypers w/Bright Lance w/Spirit Stone
1 Vypers w/EML w/Spirit Stone
1 Vypers w/all Shur Cannons w/Spirit Stone

3 (Blackmoor Pattern) War Walkers (4 Scatter lasers, 2 Starcannons)
3 (Blackmoor Pattern) War Walkers (4 Scatter lasers, 2 Starcannons)
3 (Blackmoor Pattern) War Walkers (4 Scatter lasers, 2 Starcannons)


First game was against a RoW (Rites of War) player named Toby. He was playing Eldar with what I would call an "Everything in the codex" army. I ended up going first,took out half his army and never looked back.
Win

Game 2 was against Aaron L's Iron Warriors (who went on to win the RTT). We started with just our 2 Troops and my WW with Scout. I just shot him up as he came on the board, because he mostly had a footslogging force that takes a turn to shoot their heavy weapons. He is a nice guy and has a great looking army, so I wrote him in for best Theme/Sports/Appearance.
Win

Game #3 was against Todd E's Mech Tau.
I have never beaten Todd, and I like to think it is my luck. I downed a Hammerhead on turn #1, and that is it. I spent 5 turns shooting the crap out of his skimmers and never got another down. To give you just a small idea...On turn #4 my avatar gets close enough and goes after his hammerhead that was my hunted unit (double VPs). So I shoot and miss. Turn #5 I don't think he knew that my avatar could hurt it, so it is still close. I shoot again and get a glancing 3 to stun it. I charge it and with 5 attacks I roll a 6 to hit it. I fail to penetrate its armor. Turn #6 I try to get to its side through difficult terrain, but I roll 3" so I choose to re-roll because it is a MC and I roll 2". So I shoot it in the front, but I roll a 4 on 2d6 to add to its strength 8, and I then charge again and I fail to roll a 6 to hit. It then flies off  
Loss


As far as the missions goes, I hate that RTTs still use the old 3rd edition ones. They really need to be updated badly. When you take a 4th edition army, and you get a scouting missions where your footsloggers have to start in reserve, you are screwed.

I talked to Jeff Hall (head of GW events) about it, and he said that they are working on getting new missions up. Unfortunately he is no longer with GW, but since they have such bad rules support, I have no idea if they will change them anytime in the future.  


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Reecius
hey Blackmoore, one more question for you,

which units worked, which would you have changed? Did you lose the warwalkers left and right or did they hold up a bit? Did you wish you had Eldrad?


Yes I wish I had him. The reason why is that he can use whatever psychic power you need at the moment. My Farseer had Doom and Fortune, which were ok. Doom is handy for killing things with small arms fire from the dire avengers, and I took fortune just because my army would really be in trouble if someone tried to kill my avatar (He never took a shot the whole tourney). But being able to use not only whatever power I need the most that turn, but casting 2 of the same, and one another power would have been great. A lot of time I was wishing I could cast 2 guides on the war walkers for some serious destruction.

As to the War Walkers survivability, they did ok. They got chewed up allot, but when I was able to keep them at long range, that helped them quite a bit. Sometimes I got a little to aggressive with them, and took a beating. But they were able to shoot first and do some damage. The first game I lost 2-3. The second I think I lost a couple, and the last I lost them all (Tau have a lot of strength 5-6 shooting).

Things I learned:

Good:
The Avatar was great. A 12” fearless circle around him was very valuable. He never saw much action, but he was there if I needed him. A good use of 155 points.


The Bad:
I need more anti-tank. 3 expensive BS 3 brightlances, and footslogging warlocks with singing spears and an Avatar do not make for good anti-tank. There were several Armored Companies there, and I would be screwed if I fought them.

Good:
It is very hard to stop those brightlances from firing with an avatar nearby. Also the ability to move and shoot a heavy weapon was great.

Bad:
Vypers suck. AV 10 and opened-topped is asking for trouble. I did not have my Vypers done, so I took the ones that I have bought off of e-bay and their weapon load-outs. They were a lot of easy victory points. And Spirit Stones are a waste of points on them. Being open-topped, they get shot down, not stunned. The original concept of the army has 9 War Walkers, and 9 Vypers…I think it will still work by overwhelming the opposition with vehicles, but with only 3 Vypers they suck. I was also thinking about equipping them with all Shur Cannons, so each squad of 3 will cost 180 points, and shoot 18 shots, but I am thinking that other heavy weapons would be better and stand off at range so they don’t eat bolters, plasma guns and other 24” range weaponry. I will think of how to equip them…maybe scatter lasers, maybe Eldar missile launchers.

Good:
Dire Avengers were great. They took some punishment, but they shoot like crazy. I also took the load-out of an Exarch with shimmer shield and defend (I wanted to slow down any fast moving assault units, for my banshees to counter charge), and they worked very well. Against the Tau player he thought he was safe being 15” away from me, and behind some cover with his crisis suits. So I did not shot, and I Fleet of Footed through the terrain and I charged his crisis suits. 

Bad:
My Farseer with Doom and Fortune was not that great. I should have taken guide. When you have War Walkers laying down that much firepower, that boost would have been great.

Good:
Even without Guide, the War Walkers where laying down a lot of hurt when they were able to get off a full barrage. With the torrent of fire rules I was killing a lot of squad leaders.

Bad:
The sweet spot of the army was 24”-36”. Against some armies with a lot of 48” range weapons could be a problem. If they lay back with their long range items. I would have trouble closing with them without being in range of their units that are closer.

Good:
Banshees make a great Counter Assualt unit. Since they go before anything they will even take on Genestealers.

The Bad:
I did not like the Executioner. It lowers the attacks by so much, that even at strength 5 it is not hurting enough. I think the Exarch is better off with 4 strength 3 attacks rather than 2 at strength 5. (But I have not made up my mind yet).


 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

I've had the exact same problem regarding anti armor. I've got lots of S6 firepower, but not much higher. Lots of people had a knee jerk reaction to the upped point cost of Brightlances and EML. I'm finding I still need them. My Wraithlord with EML/Brightlance is a nice piece of kit, especially with Eldrad running with him.

I am also having problems with the Vypers. I normally run 1-2 and will probably up it to 4. Not because they are very effective, rather I just like the model a lot.

I went a different route with my Warwalkers (Scatterlaser/Shuriken Cannon) to keep their cost down. I've found that there are days I wish I went dual Scatter or Scatter/Starcannon. The 36" range for both weapons would be nice. Even putting all EML wouldn't be so bad so they could sit back so they don't receive so much return fire.

A lot of talk has been going on about Vibrocannons. The auto glance on vehicle(s) at a decent range definitely has merit. However, it really is a challenge for the covetted Heavy Support Choices.

Overall, looking at your list I see lots of great uses of units:

-The Avatar will have to stay. You've got 5-6 units that he anchors.
-I agree that Eldrad needs to be added. Guiding the Brightlances I think would be just as useful as Guiding multiple WW units.
-You've seen how the Vypers work, so your decision to either scrap them or work on them being effective.
-3 Vibrocannons as a single HS choice my be a little better than 9 Warwalkers.
-Do you need 2 units of Dire Avengers? It seems one would be plenty as you have the Guardians who can still lend short range fire support.

Good looking list and congrats on the RTT using a non standard looking list.

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So nice to see an Eldar list that actually looks like it works, and I think you identified the problems with the list correctly. (lack of anti tank, no eldrad, vipers)

The big reason to take Eldrad over a regular farseer is the redeploy. Since you often have to set up the warwalkers first, it becomes easy for your opponent to set up his anti tank weapons in the proper firing lanes. The redeploy makes setting up their anti tank difficult and inexact. It also means you can be much more aggressive in your deployment, throwing units way out in front to force your opponents units back before redeploying somewhere safer.

Dire Avengers certainly put out alot of shots, but so does everything in your army. I think its certainly worth investigating if they would be better off as guardian platforms. This goes double since your only solid source of anti tank is guardians with platforms. (you might get away with missile launchers for the last 2) If you really like them, your going to have to look hard to find additional anti tank weapons.

The primary reason to take vipers has always been indirect fire platforms. Pie plates are very bad. Pie plates you can't target are your worst nightmare. If you choose not to take something to hunt them its fine, but the list will be in big trouble against defiler/basilisk heavy armies. (there are always other units to fill this role as well too, like hawks and spiders)

Don't drop the warwalkers for vibro cannons. Vibros have there uses, but not here.

This 'other' style of Eldar certainly has potential, but it still needs fine tuning on our parts.


Be Joe Cool. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I like the list and I think with a little fine tuning it'll be really tough. I think with Eldrad and a little more anti-tank weaponry you'll have a good tournement list that people won't dock your composition on (it is refreshing to see an eldar player with something other than 3 Falcons).

As for Vypers I like to use them to hunt side and rear armor and if they manage to stick around until the end of the game they can claim objectives. As such I prefer the scatter laser or EML on it. 2 Shuriken Cannons are another viable and inexpensive choice but I'm wary of getting too close to small arms and plasma gun fire with the unit.
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Minneapolis, MN

I find one or two Vypers with anti-tank weapons can be good counterattack - objective claiming units at 85pts each with a bright lance and shuriken cannon, they can wait until an enemy overextends themselves and then get into position to snipe at a tank or monster and are small enough to stay screened from the rest of the enemy force.  That and they are good for grabbing objectives at the end of the game.

But they can be very easily thrown away if they move out into the open too soon in the game.

The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi 
   
 
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