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This topic was mentioned in the tactics forum and I know this was an issue in one of our team games at the last Adepticon so I wanted to bring it up and get the full information out in the open.

The issue is ths:

1) Do Necrons who phase out and come through the Monolith's portal count as emerging from a stationary vehicle, regardless of whether the Monolith moved or not?

2) Also, can Necrons who emerge from the Portal who choose not to move then fire their weapons up to max range (24 inches) in the following shooting phase?

 

Now, I have the first printing of the Necron codex but I have glued in the cut-and-paste corrections that were published in the CA:2004 annual. That means I can't see what the original text on the rule says anymore (unfortunately).

So my version of the codex (w/ corrections added) says:

"2. In the Movement phase it may use its portal to. . .allow entire Necron units to phase out and re-enter play by emerging from the Monolith portal as if they were disembarking from an access point on a transport vehicle. The access point is the portal at the front of the model." 

 

Also, the last sentence of the 2nd bullet point says:

"A unit phasing out to re-emerge from the portal may not move before phasing out."

 

The Necron FAQ says:

"When using the Monolith Portal, the Codex states that a unit disembarking from a Monolith counts as getting out of a stationary vehicle. This rule means that the move to emerge from the Monolith constitutes the transported unit's move. After all an extra move beyond teleportation is not stated as part of the deal. If the unit teleported has already moved before being teleported, it may only be deployed within 2 [inches] of the portal; if it hasn't already moved, it may deploy out 2 [inches] and then move normally."

Now, the Necron FAQ refers to two things that don't appear to be factually correct with the upated Monolith rules:

A) The Codex doesn't refer to unit's disembarking from a "stationary" vehicle. I believe the bit about the 'stationary' vehicle was in the original text that was removed in the correction (but I can't be sure).

B) The FAQ refers to the possibility of a unit moving and then teleporting through the portal, something that is clearly not allowed with the corrected rule. I am almost 100% positive that the final sentence in the Codex about a unit not being able to move if it wants to teleport through the portal was added in the correction.

 

I am looking for someone who has the original printing of the codex to post the original text of the Monoltih rule so we can see exactly what was changed.

Second, if anyone has a newer printing of the codex (2005 or later) can you confirm that the cut-and-paste corrections made it into the new printing unchanged?

 

As for my preliminary conclusions on the questions I posed at the start of the post, I say:

1) Per the corrected Monolith text, units emerging from a Monolith's Portal just count as disembarking from a transport vehicle, which means if the Monolith moves ahead of time the models who emerge from the portal will not be able to move afterwards. The bit about the stationary vehicle in the FAQ seems to refer to rules that are no longer present.

2) Regardless of whether the unit that emerges from the portal moves or doesn't (and regardless of whether the Monolith moved ahead of time or not) the emerging units cannot fire their weapons at max range because units disembarking from a transport always count as having moved for the purposes of shooting (pg 62 of the rulebook).

 

So anyone:  Help a brother out!  I need someone with an old Necron codex (without the corrections) to tell me what the rule used to say and somone with a very new codex (post 2005) to assure us that the rule hasn't changed again since the corrections via a 'stealth' reprint.

 

Ok, according to the 2002 codex:

"In th movement Phase.... and re-enter play by emerging from the Monolith portal as if they were disembarking from an access point on a stationary transport vehicle (even if the Monolith moved). The access point is the portal at the front of the model...."

It seems that the FAQ is simply ignoring the CA:2004 errata.

I have the SECOND printing of Codex: Necrons, and it has the same entry you have, Yak. Albeit the copywrite date says 2002. >.<

According to DaBoyz who were at Adepticon, JJ made a ruling there that the Monolith does not automatically count as stationary for the portal use. So no first turn charges for Necrons.

From Codex: Necron (1st edition) page 17:
...entire Necron units...re-enter play by emerging from the Monolith portal as if they were disembarking from an access point on a stationary transport vehicle (even if the Monolith moved). The assess point is the portal at the front of the model.

HTH,
tga.

Whether or not the FAQ is correct in the wording of the previous printings, it clearly says units using the portal count as exiting a stationary vehicle and can move after exiting the portal if they did not move before using it.

As far as I know the answer to one is yes and to two is no.

Posted By Slyde on 06/16/2007 2:48 PM
Whether or not the FAQ is correct in the wording of the previous printings, it clearly says units using the portal count as exiting a stationary vehicle and can move after exiting the portal if they did not move before using it.

Well, allegedly, according to JJ at Adepticon, since the newest printing is more recent than the FAQ, the newest printing takes precedence.

Of course, since it was a stealth reprint, just like the chaos codexes...Who can tell which is the most recent rules for any army?

Posted By Slyde on 06/16/2007 2:48 PM
Whether or not the FAQ is correct in the wording of the previous printings, it clearly says units using the portal count as exiting a stationary vehicle and can move after exiting the portal if they did not move before using it.

Ummmm, no it doesn't. It says: "When using the Monolith Portal, the Codex states that a unit disembarking from a Monolith counts as getting out of a stationary vehicle."

Since the codex doesn't say that, clearly the FAQ is incorrect. It isn't as though FAQs are somehow infallable.




And you would base those answers on what exactly?



You know that Jervis telling people at Adepticon doesn't mean anything in the realm of officiality. Hell, there's not even any proof of exactly what he said (I know you wrote "allegedly", but still).

More importanly I would like to point out that it wasn't a freaking stealth reprint in this case. The changes were published in the CA:2004 annual as cut-and-paste corrections.

Oh, I know it's not official in any way, shape, or form Just adding it to the pot for people to decide how they want to play it.

And if you don't have CA:2004, then it is a stealth reprint because I don't believe there's a section of the GW website that has the errata on it any more...Just FAQ's (I went loking when this issue was brought to my attention right after Adepticon).

And my point remains, that there are FAQ's for other codexes that HAVE steath reprints, and if the most recent rules take precedence over FAQ's, then how are you supposed to know which is the most recent?

I guess what I'm saying is that the FAQ should trump the codexes even if the codexes are newer than the FAQ...

yak, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I fully realize that the stationary vehicle bit isn't in the codex as the FAQ implies, but even though the text it is referring to is absent, I feel that the FAQ describes exactly how the portal is meant to be played. If you just ignore "the codex states that", the rule is perfectly clear.

Yak it seems obvious to me at this point that subjectively choosing one (or more) of the currently published rules is no better than simply making an informed and educated compromise and adding it to YakFaq like you've done with everything else.

Based on what I've seen from you in YakFaq, I'm surprised you get this worked up over "what's written!"

The happiest compromise I've seen is to simply select a Necron unit that has not yet moved, and redeploy it from the portal as if the Monolith was the unit's dedicated transport vehicle, following all the current rules for transports.

This compromise seems to make each camp equally happy/dissatisfied in my experience. This is the hallmark of a balanced rule [change], and any nonsense regarding "shooting at max range" should earn the espouser a swift kick in the pants. Likewise, I hold no more respect for those attempting to justify "double movement" by using the portal than those who claim that "fleet of foot" is allowed after a deep-strike, or any other obviously fallacious nonsense.

EDIT: I'd like to add that it should probably be clarified, if it hasn't been so already, that a Necron unit that is too big to fit at least part of every model's base within 2" of the access point should simply be squashed in as close as possible base-to-base in a semicircle from the center of the portal.

Posted By ColonelEllios on 06/18/2007 9:51 AM

Based on what I've seen from you in YakFaq, I'm surprised you get this worked up over "what's written!"

I believe he is more worked up about consistency.

But then again, consitency has always been an issue with the GW mindset in recent years.

I'm sorry but I just have to laugh... >   GW does it again...  Codex stealth reprints, FAQs that reference superceded codex wording, and JJ spouting things at Tournaments- all of which make the issue so muddy that even the most dedicated and intelligent players can't possibly come to an official resolution of a basic tenet of an army's movement characterisitc. 

Go GW!!!

Sorry yak, I didn't mean to just rant on your thread...  I only have an opinion on the shooting part of their rules- they can't shoot 24" as if they were stationary.  I think that part is pretty clear from the wording of not only the reprinted codex but also from the FAQ (flawed or not).  They disembark from a vehicle (which counts as moving)- so no rapid fire to 24".