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Here is an arguement I have never seen till recently.....tell me your thoughts.

In the Space Wolf Codex it says a Wolf Guard Battle Leader can take wargear etc from the Space Wolves Armoury and the Wolf Guard Entry in the army list.

Some people are argueing this allows a WGBL to take an assault cannon or lascannon etc as those weapons are in the WG entry.

My counterarguement is that it says only a WG bodyguard can take a heavy weapon.

 

As a long time space wolf player I can assure you that the codex does not say that Wolf Gaurd Battle Leaders can take equipment from the Wolf Gaurd entry. It only says they can take Items from the armory, and from the regular prices, not the discounted wolf gaurd prices. Therefore there is no argument supporting this idea, which isn't new.

In the past some have tried to claim that since it is called a WOLF GAURD battle leader then he is a member of the wolf gaurd and can take wolf gaurd heavy weapons and/or discounted items from the armory. If you examine the FAQ you will see where they have made it clear several times that the battle leader is not a wolf gaurd (ie. he cannot take mark of wulfen, does not get discounted items, and is not counted as 1 of your 20 wolf gaurd). And most importantly, he has his own seperate entry as an HQ independent character, so why would he be allowed to take weapon options from a seperate unit entry.

Posted By SetantaSilvermane on 10/18/2006 6:48 AM
As a long time space wolf player I can assure you that the codex does not say that Wolf Gaurd Battle Leaders can take equipment from the Wolf Gaurd entry.

Codex Space Wolves, page 5:
"Options: The Wolf Guard Battle Leader may be given any equipment allowed from the Space Wolves Armoury and/or the Wolf Guard entry in the army list."

i will get back to this tonight but i am sure Silvermane is correct.

actually he is right Wolf gaurd battle leaders may not select wargear en stuff from the wolf gaurd leader stuff.

here is the link for the space wolves FAQ, it on the website
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/spacemarines/gaming/FAQ/assets/space_wolves_faq_v4-1.pdf

its on the second page 5th paragraph. At least when it comes to space wolves I know something. I have only been playing them for over a decade/

Beef, that says that he doesn't use the Wolf Guard points costs in the Armoury, not that he doesn't select from the Wolf Guard entry...

The WGBL entry quite clearly says that he can select items from the WG unit entry options.

I agree with insaniak. The rules here are very clear.

- Greenie

ok your both right there however
1) yes your right he does not use wolf gaurd points from the armoury, ok we bothe agree there.

2) The WGBL entry quite clearly says that he can select items from the WG unit entry options, WRONG it actually says " he can select from the wolf gaurd entry in the army list" There is no UNIT mentioned.

3) If you look in the elites section you see 2 entries, You have wolf gaurd leaders and wolf gaurd body gaurd. THEY are 2 seperate entries with seprate points cost and seperate weapon choices. The first is the wolf gaurd (not to be mistaken with the wolf gaurd battle leader) this guy can choose from the armoury as he is basically a vet sergeant. The wolf gaurd body gaurd have there own choices such as AC and lacannons etc.

4) there is a difference, You have Wolf gaurd battle leaders (IC HQ) then you have wolf gaurd leaders (Not IC and just vet sergs) and then wolf gaurd body gaurds (honour gaurd, vet squad, etc)

5) The main point is that It says the wolf gaurd battle leaders can take equipment from wolf gaurd entry and the wolf gaurd entry says that a wolf gaurd leader may take weapons from the armoury. In the armoury you dont see AC therefore the Battle leader cant take it

beef you said a lot AND I always respect you but I cannot follow what you are saying regarding the rules. Like I said the wording in the codex is crystal clear and there is nothing in the FAQ to refute it. I know a lot of SW players are dead against a WGBL with a donkey cannon but that doesn't make it not so.

- Greenie

"2) The WGBL entry quite clearly says that he can select items from the WG unit entry options, WRONG it actually says " he can select from the wolf gaurd entry in the army list" There is no UNIT mentioned."

Poor wording on my part. The point is the same, though. He selects from the Wolf Guard entry. There is only one Wolf Guard entry in the army list, which covers Wolf Guard Leaders and Wolf Guard Bodyguards.



"3) If you look in the elites section you see 2 entries, You have wolf gaurd leaders and wolf gaurd body gaurd."

Both of which come under the 'Wolf Guard' entry heading.


The WGBL rules don't say that he can select from the 'Wolf Guard Leader' entry, which is what you are trying to claim. They say that he selects from the 'Wolf Guard' entry.

@ Grean Bloater, your right sometimes even I cant understand what I write.

@ insaniak yes you are correct I re read it objectivly as opposed to what it should be. You are right By RAW even though I am sure its not the way GW inteneded it. This game of 40k has so many errors its unbelievable. You dont see monopoly or snakes and ladders having this sort of issues lol

I don't see how you could think it wasn't intended... The heavy weapons are the only options in the Wolf Guard entry that the WGBL doesn't already have in the armoury anyway.

So if they didn't intend him to be able to have a Heavy weapon, why give him the WG entry options?

Related question then:

Can a Wolf Guard unit then take Heavy Weapons and be able to Mastercraft them? I've played against this combo a few times. I even went so far and bought the Space Wolf Codex and the darn thing was written in French (I have no idea why it was in the US for sale). My French isn't good enough to grasp the details of the entry and I was too cheap to buy another and too lazy to drive out of town to return it.

Heavy weapon yes, unless they're in terminator armor. Space wolves in terminator armor can't mastercraft anything.

I was wondering, while we're on the subject of wolf gaurd, if Wolf guard battle leaders count as wolf gaurd leaders. By this i mean can they join a scout squad that is going behind enemy lines and then, since they are independent Characters, break away from the squad and go a different direction?

Posted By lorgamer14 on 10/24/2006 9:38 PM
I was wondering, while we're on the subject of wolf gaurd, if Wolf guard battle leaders count as wolf gaurd leaders. By this i mean can they join a scout squad that is going behind enemy lines and then, since they are independent Characters, break away from the squad and go a different direction?

No. The WGBL is an IC and when deployed would have to be deployed as a separate unit.

You could deploy a WGBL into a W.Scout unit already on the table during your deployment, but you would have to deploy him at the start and not using the W.Scouts special rules as the WGBL does not have the "Behind Enemy Lines" rule.

 

And it's gUArd BTW.

out of curiousity how come you cant mastercraft an assualt cannon on a WGBL??

i meen if they have access to the armoury of both the wolf gaurd and the IC why would they not be able to mastercraft?

Because Master Crafting in the Space Wolf Armoury is not available to Terminators...

From what DaIronGob said that wolf guard battle leaders do not have the special rule of behind enemy lines, you say that they don't have this special rule. However, in the Space Wolf book it states the a Wolf guard leader can lead a squad of scouts and this confers the behind enemy lines special rule on him. What I am asking is would this rule confer this onto a wolf guard battle leader?

You can call this skill OBEL for short.

- Greenie

The new FAQ for the 4th ed rulebook seems to create an odd situation -- if your WGBL is in reserve and comes on the board the same turn as the scouts, you would, in theory at least, be able to attach him to the scouts and then use OBEL. Of course, getting a WGBL to start in reserve isn't all that easy without using a pod, and even if it's technically possible to do so with the WGBL in a pod, it's too stupid to contemplate doing in a real game.

The Wolf Guard Battle Leader is not a member of the wolfguard therefore would not be able to be attached to them as such. Meaning, the WGBL does not use the Wolfguard entry it uses the WGBL entry therefore they do not benefit from the 'wolfguard leader' rule.
The WGBL also does not have the "Behind Enemy Lines" rule therefore when coming in from reserves would have to do so normally per the normal reserve rules. If you decided to place the WGBL in the Scouts then they would all deploy normally.