H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, from what I've heard they've just nerfed the bloodlines. They've been in the game for a while.
Yeah, a quick look through and...
Blood Dragon - Immune to untainted attrition has been replaced with +2 Blood Knights in the Raise Dead pool in your own provinces, but the WS boost to cav has gone from +10 to +15%
Von Carstein - Pretty similar, but Casualty Replenishment boost used to be +20% now it's only +10% which reduces your ability to create fast regenerating armies.
Lahmians - Used to have a big (50%) upkeep reduction for all heroes, replaced with a +20% experience gain for characters. I'd rather have the upkeep reduction. They also lost "vigour loss reduction" for all armies and gained diplomatic relations with factions you're likely going to be at war with anyway.
Necrach: Used to have +20 winds for all all armies, which was great. It's now +15 power reserve capacity, I'm not really sure how different that is.
Strigoi: Used to have a public order buff where the impact of lack of vampiric corruption on public order was reduced by 60%, now replaced with crypt horrors and ghouls added to raise dead pools.
So I'd say there's a lot more nerfs than buffs in that, combined with the nerf to Wind of Death, the general nerf to magic in TWW3, and the loss of skellie spam, it seems VC will be weaker unless they've added some buffs elsewhere.
Granted I think VC needed some tweaking, but if all we get is nerfs it's not great, lol.
One thing will be the lord abilities, previously the Bloodline lords had some pretty good skills, like Lahmian lords had a +50% hero success chance which meant your heroes could pull off assassinations with a pretty high reliability.
Maybe some of those will be getting better balanced.
Grey Templar wrote: Less skellie spam is good for nothing else than ensuring the AI won't have a million massive doomstacks on turn 10. Not that they are hard to kill, just annoying.
I dunno if it'll affect the AI, the AI doomstacks regardless of mechanics that affect the player.
It's more that they're nerfed from the player's perspective when they are playing as VC.
Legend of Total War made a good point in one of his streams, when it comes to campaign it's less important to have balance and more important that players can play the way that they find fun. So taking away something (for example skellie spam, though I think he was talking in terms of something else) is a net loss unless it's replaced by other mechanics that are also fun.
True, balance doesn't matter as much unless you are talking about multiplayer. And even then, a campaign game can only be so balanced for multiplayer. And I doubt anyone is playing 20+ player multiplayer campaigns where someone is going to be stuck with a bad faction. Even with a bad faction you will always outplay the AI.
So in that sense losing the skellie spam is bad. Fewer options for a player in their single player campaign.
Mr Morden wrote: Plus the boosted that nobody Ghorst to the nth degree for some reason
I saw Legend's review of Okoii's Zombie doomstack, it does seem bugged and I imagine it'll get patched. It seemed like the healing cap was bugged, but it also seemed like they were taking barely any damage.
Gets a lot of mortal units* (but not all, esp not Chosen), and they aren't locked to glory the way daemons are. Still need buildings to recruit them though, doesn't use the Warriors warband mechanic (which isn't a surprise, but should be stated).
God dedication for each city still dictates which units you can recruit, so not a lot of options for pure undivided.
Didn't catch if his own skill tree still sucks or not.
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*its worth noting that several youtubers have mentioned that the full chaos rosters requires Immortal Empires (which requires games 1 and 2) AND the Champions of Chaos DLC. And there are some FLC warrior units for everyone but khorne (who had more warrior units already), so don't lose track of that either, if it isn't included in the base update (which is often true of FLC).
Vampire Ascension has triggered, and the Red Duke of Mousillon has come back. But he doesn't have any territory so is suffering attrition on all the stacks that spawned. See around 14:30.
Not sure who they start at war with in the Endgame scenario, but one of the Norscan factions holds most of the Bretonnian coast, so they're wandering vaguely inland to find targets, taking attrition along the way.
Lots of stuff, but you need to scroll down a bit to a 'table of contents' section, and then the real information starts.
quite a bit of information was already out and about, but there's some interesting intent notes here and there, along with the whole compilation in text (rather than what streamers think is going on).
Auto-war with daemon factions is gone, for example.
Reload times (ranged units) got a UI and mathematical overhaul
Anyway, there is a lot. I'm a bit excited.
Anyone played it yet? It's bed time here so it'll be tomorrow evening before I get it fired up.
Got half the workday left. I'll get home, get it started, exercise the dog, exercise myself, have dinner and (hopefully) settle in.
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Automatically Appended Next Post: So....
2.1 is scheduled for two weeks from now
While there will be room for Hotfixes in the event of any critical issues, the first expected release is UPDATE 2.1, which is already scheduled to arrive two weeks (September 6)
2.2 in October.
2.1 will include
-Belakor, if you didn't unlock him by winning the RoC campaign.
-Tzeentch Doom Knight model update. (And they'll be made available to Sigvald, Archaon, Kholek and Vilitch)
-Limited confederation of other Warriors of Chaos factions for Archaon and Be'lakor
-Ultimate Crisis (all end game scenarios simultaneously)
-miscellaneous other stuff.
They mentioned moving Skrag (to somewhere else) and Kairos (to the southern wastes), no idea if that will happen in this update.
Hmm. I was pondering opening with a Archaon campaign (for all the chaos options), but now I think I'll wait.
Maybe I'll stick with a non-IE Valkia campaign after all.
I still want them to make a map with just 1 of each core faction. 1 High elf, 1 Dark elf, 1 Human etc....
Just so you can have the whole experience without nearly 300 factions (it will be 300 before the end you can bet with a few faction expansions!) Esp since sometimes by the time you reach a region an AI will have wiped out a race to nothing or almost nothing.
Yeah, what I've seen on playthroughs, by about turn 45-50, the number of factions has dropped from 275 to about 180.
It includes the piddling starter factions that often exist just to be the tutorial battles.
So, wanted to test something out, and started Vlad and Isabella. Actually, Isabella and Vlad, because that's insane.
Vlad keeps his Vanguard deployment (whole army) and siege attacker traits as a hero, plus you get Isabella's pile of bonuses for embedded vampires (which includes vlad!) and extra +3 capacity for vampires, and the rank 1 building in Castle Drakenhof that lets you recruit vampires (which you can start building turn 1).
I think that's worth giving up Vlad's +10% campaign movement range.
Wonder how long it'll be until mods restore Isabella's defeat trait, or simply add it to Vlad (which is what CA should have done, rather than choosing their typical wrongbadfun method).
Tooled around with Archaon, was kicking ass and taking names until I got to the Plains of Zharr. Then I got sad that we don’t have Chorfs yet. I’m such a greedy piglet! A wealth of content that will last me years and I’m focused on the next(hopefully) DLC…
I'm at turn 35 in Valkia's Champions campaign. Its... weird.
She starts in Frozen landing, and everything in that part of Norsca is so stretched out she really loses out on her movement bonuses- there just aren't enough fights and settlements. (and the port in that particular Dark Fortress is crippling. It eats a building slot for a minor growth bonus and that's it. Well and a better chance for marauder horsemen in local recruitment which... don't care.).
And while she can get Sorcerers, it seems wrong to drop them in her army (though I've got an undivided lord I'm keeping that way, and I'm giving him a metal sorcerer).
But I ended up meandering through Norsca and vassalizing tribes (they aren't doing much), took out Vilitch and the Daemon Prince, and turned back toward Kislev, because Konstantin was getting aggressive.
Somehow Ostland took Hellpit (don't know if they worked with one Kislev tribe or the other).
The whole souls for Zanbaijin thing hasn't popped yet. It doesn't really feel like there is a campaign here, just conquest on the weirdly squished map. But Warriors of Chaos are a lot more fun. And a LOT of choices/customization. I look forward to the undivided lords in IE, once they do the next patch.
Overread wrote: I still want them to make a map with just 1 of each core faction. 1 High elf, 1 Dark elf, 1 Human etc....
Just so you can have the whole experience without nearly 300 factions (it will be 300 before the end you can bet with a few faction expansions!) Esp since sometimes by the time you reach a region an AI will have wiped out a race to nothing or almost nothing.
I'd love to see a "lore friendly" version of the game, where factions that are likely to be friends are friends from the beginning and the world doesn't have sweeping changes in who controls what area until you get to that part of the world to start your conquest.
There could be unlikely alliances formed to defend against you. The AI would likely need to cheat to make it work properly (not that they don't already cheat), where certain strong factions start the game strong or are able to become strong without needing to conquer huge swathes of land they wouldn't normally have in the fluff.
That way you could play a game where you encounter the world as it exists in its normal state in the fluff.
Did a brief Skarsnik 30ish turn playththrough before work. Dwarves in the Badlands got steamrolled by Skaven, the Greenskin faction that start in the Forest near Karaz-a-Karak and Wurrzag's faction before I could even eliminate Thorgrim.
Not sure I care for Skarsnik being right on Thorgrims doorstep at the start, but it was an unmodded playthrough and at normal difficulty.
Played Imrik - had to restart 5 times after getting stomped early game by one of more of the various enemy factions nearby - they seem to have fixed the passive AI
nels1031 wrote: Tooled around with Archaon, was kicking ass and taking names until I got to the Plains of Zharr. Then I got sad that we don’t have Chorfs yet. I’m such a greedy piglet! A wealth of content that will last me years and I’m focused on the next(hopefully) DLC…
How is WoC in IE anyway? Haven't heard much reaction to it. Is it an improvement over Mortal Empires?
nels1031 wrote: Tooled around with Archaon, was kicking ass and taking names until I got to the Plains of Zharr. Then I got sad that we don’t have Chorfs yet. I’m such a greedy piglet! A wealth of content that will last me years and I’m focused on the next(hopefully) DLC…
How is WoC in IE anyway? Haven't heard much reaction to it. Is it an improvement over Mortal Empires?
Vastly.
Its also very different, so if you liked the horde style, you're out of luck.
But there's a lot of customization options for characters, units, even your subfaction as a whole (depending on who your lord is) with different ways to get units, as well as events goals, new items, altered skill trees, gifts of chaos, earnable traits (like ogre big names) and just... so much. Staying undivided, dedicating to a god and for generic lords, becoming a daemon prince is a huge decision that dramatically affects how the army plays. And that aspect of Legendary Lord you start with influences all of that significantly (Archaon and Kholek (oh, yeah, and Bel) look far more interesting to me in that respect, but I'm not 100% sure what other effects Kholek has on the faction)
The Dark Fortresses (the settlements you want to occupy) are a little disappointing, just because there is basically a set build that you want to prioritize (money, defense and growth for tier 1 and 2) and they're expensive to build in and ultimately kind of not important (because you don't recruit directly from settlement buildings). But there are some important bonuses lurking in the background, and, of course, access to heroes (which are amazing in their own right).
Unit upgrades in the warband system are interesting. They can be limiting (they need to rank up and their are tech limits), but if you like carrying your starting units through your campaigns, naming them and treating them as a roleplaying thing, this is hands down the best faction, as your shoddy marauders can rise in the ranks to chaos warriors, knights or even chosen. Or even aspiring champions or Skullcrushers, depending how you mark them (aspiring champions are undivided only, which is... interesting). If your aspiring champions fail you, you can even turn them into chaos spawn.
I suspect I could spend the next couple months just playing chaos campaigns and not be bored.
nels1031 wrote: Tooled around with Archaon, was kicking ass and taking names until I got to the Plains of Zharr. Then I got sad that we don’t have Chorfs yet. I’m such a greedy piglet! A wealth of content that will last me years and I’m focused on the next(hopefully) DLC…
How is WoC in IE anyway? Haven't heard much reaction to it. Is it an improvement over Mortal Empires?
It definitely took some getting used too, because its a dramatic departure from any other way that a faction played, but it feels much more organic, I guess. Those two units of Marauders that I started with became Chaos Warriors, then 1 unit became Chaos Knights and another became a unit of Chosen. Really gave it a sense of meaningful progression and made me more careful about how I used them.
That, plus the removal of the horde mechanic really make the faction much more fun to play. I think before I moved on to another faction playthrough, I had 3 Norsca tribes and 2 demon factions vassalized and pushing south.
I didn't really mess with the Path to Glory mechanics, like dedicating a hero to a specific god, but they seem like a reskin of the Bretonnian "Quest" mechanic, in some fashion. I could be wrong though, as I barely scratched the surface.
I didn't really mess with the Path to Glory mechanics, like dedicating a hero to a specific god, but they seem like a reskin of the Bretonnian "Quest" mechanic, in some fashion. I could be wrong though.
They aren't. Each characters gets three traits, randomly(ish) assigned that are unlocked under certain conditions (win 5 battles, win against a caster, win with 2 chosen units in the army) and then just get that trait forever. Its a more generous version of ogre big names, unlike bretonnian quests, you don't need to make choices and then try to achieve them.
Marking involves just hitting level [5] and spending souls. It resets the character at half their current level as, functionally, a new character. Same way daemon heralds could become greater daemons in the base game.
Becoming a Daemon Prince (for lords) works like marking, just with a higher level. (30). I'm not actually sure its worth it. I'd rather have the armor and the chaos dragon. (and a focused spellcaster hero)
I got TWW3 free on gamepass but I've realised that alas it doesn't register the fact that I own the other games just on Steam because why would it. I thought I could work out a way to beat the system and get the TWW launcher to recognise it but that didn't work either.
So I'll have to wait until there's a bit of a price reduction and get it on Steam.
I think Chaos Dwarfs are the last major (minor on TT) to be added? Araby will never happen for various reasons. Border Princes are doubtful, I don't think they're anywhere near as popular as Chaos Dwarfs and they don't have a single, cohesive roster ASFAIK. Dogs of War is a maybe. The eastern factions like Nippon and Ind are unlikely, but Cathay happened, so it's possible. Ind would be preferable.
Hey wait isn't there an Albion army missing too! I distinctly remember Gotrek and Felix visiting them one time - angry men in kilts and Amazonian Valkyries and such
Overread wrote: Hey wait isn't there an Albion army missing too! I distinctly remember Gotrek and Felix visiting them one time - angry men in kilts and Amazonian Valkyries and such
Albion has a bit of lore which varies over the editions, very early on it had the McDeath Campaign pack and the later Shadows campaign pack.
Loads of possible dlc to come besides the certain Chaos Dwarfs
Neferata, her Sisterhood
Vampire Bloodline lords
Ulrika for Kislev/Vampires/Empire
Amazons
Drachenfels (his castle is a settlement) - maybe even Genevieve as a neutral hero
Yin-Yin and the other Dragon children
Dogs of War
Many many characters for all factions
Monkey King faction
Kuresh
Ind
Araby
It would sort of make sense them tying Dogs of War and the Border Princes together, but I can't see that happening really either. I don't see it necessarily being a requirement.
I would like to see an Araby army because that already existed in warmaster.
I've always wanted an Albion army but maybe that could happen in the Old World release..
Twenty-something turns into an Archaon campaign. You folks weren’t kidding. WoC is an absolute beast now. No more standing in place waiting for building upgrades. Now you have a raise-dead-like mechanic that allows you to get early units and trolls instantly in early-game. I’ve gone from spending 1/3 of my turns in encamp to almost forgetting it’s even there. Even if you want those stronger units, the upgrade system makes the whole process MUCH quicker. Even if you encamp to recover your forces, you still have 50% of your movement speed. This is an enormous improvement from their older horde mechanics.
Archaon himself is still a monster in combat, but the spells are a lot better. Still has flaming head and buff spell, but the starting soul drain and “metal falling from the sky” spells work even better than some of the Lore of Fire spells he had earlier. My guy here soloed Boris Ursun like he was nothing and went on to slaughter a good chunk of his forces.
Now there’s confederacy thrown into the mix and the vassals actually seem to be useful for a change. Had two Norscan tribes hold off Kislevite forces while Archaon razed their towns. Apperantly you can drag Beastmen and Skaven into the mix as well? Really hope that’s the case. There’s plenty of “friendship” to spread up here. Khorne knows what it will be like when they are all united under the Everchosen banner.
It feels like you’re an invincible wall of destruction snowballing into a full-blown apocalypse, and it’s been a thrill to play.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Nah they should go all the way and fill in all the gaps in the world:
1. Chaos Dwarfs
2. Dogs of War
3. Araby
4. Kuresh
5. Ind
6. Nippon
7. Primaris Space Marines
It'll be great!
This and primarch cona… I mean Sigmar as a playable character. Also halflings, Albioners, border princes and dragon priests. After the primaris space marines have been added of course.
Its a unit cap mod based on the Core/Special/Rare designation that units had in WHFB. Each unit now has a small diamond icon = green(core), blue(special) and purple (rare) and every unit has a certain diamond cost. You are allowed as much green as you want, special is 10 and rare is 5 or 6 allowed in 1 army.
Really makes army building much more challenging and the choices are more impactful. And most importantly for me, prevents spamming of units. The one I used in WH2 was based on how many certain buildings you had, while this one is army based which is much more forgiving.
Another one thats useful, particularly for WoC, is a new icon for unit rank. Its now a number in a circle with a bar going around it designating how much XP the unit has before ranking up, instead of the chevrons.
There are a few more that I've been using, mainly quality of life stuff, like reducing how much "Imperium" or whatever its called that the Empire faction loses when a Elector Count falls. With so much more happening in the old world, that counter just seems to go down 2-3 points every few turns with nowhere near the amount of dilemmas to counteract it.
Olthannon wrote: It would sort of make sense them tying Dogs of War and the Border Princes together, but I can't see that happening really either. I don't see it necessarily being a requirement.
I would like to see an Araby army because that already existed in warmaster.
I've always wanted an Albion army but maybe that could happen in the Old World release..
I've always thought that CA was very...hesitant to give us Araby for "reasons"... If not, I think we would have gotten them as a faction shortly after the Tomb Kings DLC dropped in WHII.
Certain Araby themed units in a Dogs of War mobile horde army, sure.
Also, based on the last "Old World" status update Border Princes could very well be a thing pushed by GW. Who knows.
The Total War: WARHAMMER III Assembly Kit has arrived for our amazing modding community!
The High Elf Archmage is no longer unstoppable when mounted on a dragon.
The Warriors of Chaos can now subjugate all human and elven races.
Archaon and Be’lakor can now confederate other Warriors of Chaos factions upon capturing their final settlement.
Added an Ultimate Crisis setting to trigger ALL endgame scenarios in the same playthrough (only for the strong-willed and stout of heart).
All Legendary Lords now begin with the Siege Attacker trait.
Improvements to the Dwarfs—they are gaining spell resistance, additional movement options, and buffs to their Hammerers.
Stationary vortex spells have been rebalanced so that targets have a chance to react.
Helman Ghorst is getting some necessary tweaks to bring him into balance with the rest of the battlefield.
Domination Battles will see rule changes to help them last longer (and will continue to see changes in future updates).
The Empire will receive reduced penalties to their Imperial Authority when they incur their first losses.
Regiments of Renown units are now available to the appropriate factions, and costs have been reduced for units that were asking for far too much.
Not sure about the changes to vortex spells.
Don't really like just handing out siege attacker to every LL. Feels real lazy.
There are a lot of details further down the blog post.
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2.2 is slated for October, and will move a couple lords around. (Teclis, Skrag, Kairos, and Alith Anar.) Some other things, but nothing that stood out beyond a general vague 'update to confederations'
past 2.2:
Settlement Battles
A point of feedback since release, we are continuing to look at how to improve Settlement Battles based on player feedback. Unfortunately, this is a complicated matter to untangle and fix, so we will be looking at what incremental changes can be made in 2.2 as we work on larger changes for future releases. Rest assured that we hear your concerns and will be looking for opportunities to improve the Battles in the future.
Overread wrote: It's probably needed considering that every town is a siege battle now; at least it can speed things up by one turn
??
Only settlements with walls (province capitals by default, or tier 3 minor settlements with wall upgrades). The buildable crap doesn't constitute a siege.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah making all LLs into Siege Attackers is pretty lazy.
Congrats Oxyotl! You're a Siege Attacker now... for some reason!
Oxyotl is probably one of the few that makes sense, he's probably scouted the place out and found the entry points and whatnot and then sneaks up an attacks before the defences are fully prepared.
But yeah, I don't like giving Siege Attacker to every LL.
That said the old Siege Attacker system I also didn't find great because for many factions you'd just pay a "Siege Attacker Tax" and take 1 unit with Siege Attacker and a lot of the time they weren't even a good siege unit, you just needed them to be able to launch the siege without waiting a turn to build a battering ram that you ended up abandoning at the start of the battle anyway, lol.
In my VC armies I'd often get a unit of Crypt Horrors for Siege Attacker and they would just wait at the back while the rest of the army did the siege because they were too squishy to be useful.
Did they ever fix dogs being insanely good at destroying gates? Chaos Hounds and Drycha's Wolf units were always better at knocking down gates than any unit with the Siege Attacker rule.
I don't think so. When I was messing around with various chaos lords the other week, dogs, trolls and dragon ogres seemed about even in taking out gates, and ate through them in about the same time it took to get marauders and warriors really engaged on top of the walls.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Oxyotl is probably one of the few that makes sense, he's probably scouted the place out and found the entry points and whatnot and then sneaks up an attacks before the defences are fully prepared.
That's great, but that's also represented via Stalk.
Siege Attacker is there for things that can damage walls/towers/gates. It does not fit for Oxyotl.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: That said the old Siege Attacker system I also didn't find great because for many factions you'd just pay a "Siege Attacker Tax" and take 1 unit with Siege Attacker and a lot of the time they weren't even a good siege unit, you just needed them to be able to launch the siege without waiting a turn to build a battering ram that you ended up abandoning at the start of the battle anyway, lol.
To me that just speaks to continuing problems with the Siege mechanics (ie. they're not very good, no one really likes them, and you can skip over most of them).
Walls are a detriment to most defenders, and you don't need siege equipment when attacking. Mobile game "Tower Defence" mechanics are so powerful that they skew auto-resolve results, and attrition sets in the second a siege starts.
They really need to get their acts together with this stuff:
1. Reduce the amount of minor siege battles/up the amount of field battles (y'know, what Warhammer Fantasy Battle is truly about/known for!). 2. Make defending the walls worthwhile. 3. Make bringing siege equipment worthwhile. 4. Make build-able towers less of a massive threat. 5. Change how capture points work in walled sieges. 6. Change how capture points are linked to barricades/towers so that they make sense. 7. Make it so multiple single entities can attack a barricade at the same time (right now they rush to the centre and get in one another's way). 8. Make it so building defensive buildings adds a timer before attrition sets in to defenders. 9. Make them less of a chore/slog.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Oxyotl is probably one of the few that makes sense, he's probably scouted the place out and found the entry points and whatnot and then sneaks up an attacks before the defences are fully prepared.
That's great, but that's also represented via Stalk.
Siege Attacker is there for things that can damage walls/towers/gates. It does not fit for Oxyotl.
I see Siege Attacker as simply being something that would realistically allow you to make an attack on a castle. That might be siege engines, it might be flyers that can cap the walls without needing to knock the gate down, or siege towers that let you bypass the walls/gates, and I'm fine with it also being sneaky dude be sneaky (though it'd be nice if it was also represented in the battle somehow).
But yeah, I'd be happy for a complete siege rework. The tower defence stuff, map design and capture points all made sieges worse IMO.
I mean they said in those patch notes they're working on settlement battles but it would be a longer fix. So yes the siege attacker thing is lazy but clearly meant to be a stop gap.
They aren't a stop gap for settlement battle changes.
Sieges and settlement battles are separate things, even though, yes, sieges are of walled settlements.
But they're separate maps and CA treats them differently.
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Personally, for me the biggest problem with the settlement battles is the terrain (large buildings and multi levels) actively fighting against the camera and unit selection.
If I could see through and select units through buildings and other terrain, many of the problems would go away.
The rest is solved by widening the limited gaps and 'roads' and by a LOT of work on unit pathfinding (and that's a bear that can eat a lot of computing power, I don't actually see them fixing that. More open settlements is a much easier fix, though it involves redoing all the maps)
Today's hotfix includes a fix for the critical crash introduced in Update 2.1.
Fixed a crash when manually defending during minor and major Settlement Battles.
The "Rollback" branch has also been added as an opt-in beta branch on Steam. This will allow users to manually revert back to the Update 2.0 build if they choose to do so. There are a few important considerations when opting-in to the branch:
Doing so will require you to re-download and unpack any files which were updated in the 2.1 build.
Playing in Update 2.0 will disable cross-play with users in the 2.1 or 2.1.1 build.
Future builds will require that you opt-out of the beta to update to the latest build.
Having a blast playing a Wood Elf campaign at the moment. Being able to teleport all over the map is great fun.
It is a lot faster paced as well, no need to paint the entire map as you can just lurk in your trees ocassionally popping out to raze some settlements or to lay a particularly juicy ambush.
Still having a blast playing as Archaon, particularly with the confederation mod. I have all but Vilitch in my faction who has a sizeable chunk of Cathay so it'll be a slog to get to him, get him an elite army and then I'll be ready for war against the world.
One thing I don't care for with the WoC update is how long it takes to replace high end units. I had a unit of max rank chosen get wiped and now I have to build up a unit of Chaos Warriors back up to their level. My fault for putting them in a spot to get destroyed, but pretty harsh to wait that long before I get them back.
nels1031 wrote: Still having a blast playing as Archaon, particularly with the confederation mod. I have all but Vilitch in my faction who has a sizeable chunk of Cathay so it'll be a slog to get to him, get him an elite army and then I'll be ready for war against the world.
One thing I don't care for with the WoC update is how long it takes to replace high end units. I had a unit of max rank chosen get wiped and now I have to build up a unit of Chaos Warriors back up to their level. My fault for putting them in a spot to get destroyed, but pretty harsh to wait that long before I get them back.
I like it - i enjoyed it Troy as the Amazons and now as Valkia - the lad and lassies have to work to become hard and then stay alive.
I killed Vilitch cos I dislike Tzeentch and killed Sigvald cos he is Slaanesh and Valkia is Khorne lady
Ok so I finally been able to put some time into the Kislev campaign... things going good finally getting some high-tier armies to play around with different builds.. and then bam. all my trade partners and allies who are the dwarfs I've kept around just turn on me..
What is up with the dwarfs just deciding they will go on a massive rampage and turn on you and everyone!?
Feels like such a "gotcha!" moment... just coz its the first time playing the campaign.. -_-
Like I get it.. but I'm just going to start a new campaign now coz I got completely blindsided.
Argive wrote: Ok so I finally been able to put some time into the Kislev campaign... things going good finally getting some high-tier armies to play around with different builds.. and then bam. all my trade partners and allies who are the dwarfs I've kept around just turn on me..
What is up with the dwarfs just deciding they will go on a massive rampage and turn on you and everyone!?
Feels like such a "gotcha!" moment... just coz its the first time playing the campaign.. -_-
Like I get it.. but I'm just going to start a new campaign now coz I got completely blindsided.
Sounds like you didn’t uncheck the “Grudge too far” Endgame scenario when setting up a new campaign. I made the same mistake.
I feel like they need more options for end game scenarios. A Vermintide type scenario would be cool, for instance.
Argive wrote: Ok so I finally been able to put some time into the Kislev campaign... things going good finally getting some high-tier armies to play around with different builds.. and then bam. all my trade partners and allies who are the dwarfs I've kept around just turn on me..
What is up with the dwarfs just deciding they will go on a massive rampage and turn on you and everyone!?
Feels like such a "gotcha!" moment... just coz its the first time playing the campaign.. -_-
Like I get it.. but I'm just going to start a new campaign now coz I got completely blindsided.
Sounds like you didn’t uncheck the “Grudge too far” Endgame scenario when setting up a new campaign. I made the same mistake.
I feel like they need more options for end game scenarios. A Vermintide type scenario would be cool, for instance.
On a Khazrak One-eye campaign, set up my first herdstone and farmed as much Dread as I could before I performed the first ritual. Now with multiple armies to defend my one and only (so far) herdstone, Khazrak himself is doing the Old World tour, killing as many LL's as possible to get those sweet, sweet traits. Drycha first!
Is collecting all the LLs actually feasible? It is of course possible, but it getting them all a reasonable goal? Game 3 seems like a nightmare for it.
I've been trying to do it in game 2 with Grimgor but keep losing LLs forcing me to restart. I think i'm up to run 6 or 7 now. So far my best run was I think turn 78 or 79. The High Elves especially seem troublesome. Imrik seems to run afoul of someone quite often, although i'm not sure who as I don't go in that direction early. I'm guessing clan Eshin maybe? and Nagarythe tends to get offed by the Dark Elves reasonably quickly too. The beastmen factions tend to go missing pretty quickly, although they sometime return after being destroyed I think kind of like those savage orc tribes? I find it really hard to keep track of all the Skaven factions too. Draycha though, despite being surrounded by people she seems intent on pissing off, holds her own really well.
In Warhammer 2 I collected all the Greenskin LL’s simply by playing as Grom, letting Grimgor steam roll everyone and gather all the LLs, then beat Grimgor.
Seems for most factions LL collecting in Warhammer 3 will be harder, though honestly I haven’t played much to know for sure.
Snrub wrote: Is collecting all the LLs actually feasible? It is of course possible, but it getting them all a reasonable goal? Game 3 seems like a nightmare for it.
I've been trying to do it in game 2 with Grimgor but keep losing LLs forcing me to restart. I think i'm up to run 6 or 7 now. So far my best run was I think turn 78 or 79. The High Elves especially seem troublesome. Imrik seems to run afoul of someone quite often, although i'm not sure who as I don't go in that direction early. I'm guessing clan Eshin maybe? and Nagarythe tends to get offed by the Dark Elves reasonably quickly too. The beastmen factions tend to go missing pretty quickly, although they sometime return after being destroyed I think kind of like those savage orc tribes? I find it really hard to keep track of all the Skaven factions too. Draycha though, despite being surrounded by people she seems intent on pissing off, holds her own really well.
Imrik has alot of Orc factions to deal with as well as undead and Nurgle - can be a lot to deal with.
Snrub wrote: Is collecting all the LLs actually feasible? It is of course possible, but it getting them all a reasonable goal? Game 3 seems like a nightmare for it.
I've been trying to do it in game 2 with Grimgor but keep losing LLs forcing me to restart. I think i'm up to run 6 or 7 now. So far my best run was I think turn 78 or 79. The High Elves especially seem troublesome. Imrik seems to run afoul of someone quite often, although i'm not sure who as I don't go in that direction early. I'm guessing clan Eshin maybe? and Nagarythe tends to get offed by the Dark Elves reasonably quickly too. The beastmen factions tend to go missing pretty quickly, although they sometime return after being destroyed I think kind of like those savage orc tribes? I find it really hard to keep track of all the Skaven factions too. Draycha though, despite being surrounded by people she seems intent on pissing off, holds her own really well.
Imrik has alot of Orc factions to deal with as well as undead and Nurgle - can be a lot to deal with.
The key to getting imrik for me in WHTW2 was always to send a noble to b-line for his area on T1 and try to confederate him as a priority confederating alistair/ alariel in the meantime as sometimes they get killed off by dark elves.
The alternative is to start as imrik and let Lothren confederate everyone and then just buy Tyrion off with all the money.
No idea about WH3 though. Havent played the elves in that yet.
Snrub wrote: Is collecting all the LLs actually feasible? It is of course possible, but it getting them all a reasonable goal? Game 3 seems like a nightmare for it.
I've been trying to do it in game 2 with Grimgor but keep losing LLs forcing me to restart. I think i'm up to run 6 or 7 now. So far my best run was I think turn 78 or 79. The High Elves especially seem troublesome. Imrik seems to run afoul of someone quite often, although i'm not sure who as I don't go in that direction early. I'm guessing clan Eshin maybe? and Nagarythe tends to get offed by the Dark Elves reasonably quickly too. The beastmen factions tend to go missing pretty quickly, although they sometime return after being destroyed I think kind of like those savage orc tribes? I find it really hard to keep track of all the Skaven factions too. Draycha though, despite being surrounded by people she seems intent on pissing off, holds her own really well.
Imrik has alot of Orc factions to deal with as well as undead and Nurgle - can be a lot to deal with.
The key to getting imrik for me in WHTW2 was always to send a noble to b-line for his area on T1 and try to confederate him as a priority confederating alistair/ alariel in the meantime as sometimes they get killed off by dark elves.
The alternative is to start as imrik and let Lothren confederate everyone and then just buy Tyrion off with all the money.
No idea about WH3 though. Havent played the elves in that yet.
You can't buy confeds anymore I don't think.
I have managed to get him as Tyrion by doing as you suggest!
On both TW2 and TW3 he has a hard start IMO. Ironically Vortex start is a breeze.
I have to say, I really like the re-work. The whole upgrade units with experience mechanic is very thematic IMO and gives a proper campaign feel.
Still getting to grips with getting some some specific builds and understanding the path to glory mechanic.
I think the gifts you get from souls are a bit underwhelming.
However, the path to glory pay off also seems to be a bit meh.
Ive come across sigvald, can Archaon confederate?
Also, the quest teleport battles... really hard army comps you are up against!
any tips on getting through these ? It seems even with a really hard stack it is a challenge on paper.
Specialy one which has almost a whole stack of chaos nights as the second army.
Also, Can you have demon princes as lords or heroes ?
I have to say, I really like the re-work. The whole upgrade units with experience mechanic is very thematic IMO and gives a proper campaign feel.
Still getting to grips with getting some some specific builds and understanding the path to glory mechanic.
I think the gifts you get from souls are a bit underwhelming.
However, the path to glory pay off also seems to be a bit meh.
Ive come across sigvald, can Archaon confederate?
Also, the quest teleport battles... really hard army comps you are up against!
any tips on getting through these ? It seems even with a really hard stack it is a challenge on paper.
Specialy one which has almost a whole stack of chaos nights as the second army.
Also, Can you have demon princes as lords or heroes ?
I'm not sure if the last patch added chaos confederations, but I have a mod that gives chaos the sort of "force confederation" mechanic that Norsca has. Defeat their LL and the faction folds with their LL and other immortal Heroes/Lords recruitable after a 5 turn wounded timer.
Regarding Archaon's quests, I tend to wait until I have a true elite army and just tank everything that comes. Aim for the leaders first, and try not to get bogged down by unbreakable stuff( Chaos Spawn). Just because the quest pops up, doesn't mean you have to do it right away. I also think they pop up much earlier then they did in WH2. Helps to plan it too, once you know how the scenario will play out. I had done it so many times in the past 2 games that it wasn't much of a surprise.
Regarding Demon Princes, I don't think I ever bit the bullet and made one as it seems like a downgrade to some builds or at best a side grade. Come to think of it, I think I did it once because I had two lords with the same face profile and it bothered me. Wasn't all that impressed and kind of bothered by the fact that he loses levels/skills.
I tended to keep the path to glory upgrades thematic. Never did any research on whats the best to min/max. Its fun, but I'm kind of disappointed that its pretty limited. No Tzeentch or Slaanesh exalted heroes? I get that a certain window is closed for Khorne (no magic!!!) but the others should have the option. Its fun little side quests to get them upgraded, if nothing else.
I found the souls situationally useful - especially daemons into the army. warbands are great - work hard, kill well and you will be rewarded.
Can you expand on this a bit? I feel like I'm missing something. So far the only use for souls I found was path of damnation and "the gift" mechanic.
How does this tie into demon hordes?
To Nels Point - How do you get to a demon prince? Is it a lord that needs to go through path of damnation?
I gather its likely no the optimal choice as a dragon lord is proly as good as it gets but more for flavour
To Nels Point - How do you get to a demon prince? Is it a lord that needs to go through path of damnation?
I gather its likely no the optimal choice as a dragon lord is proly as good as it gets but more for flavour
Once a lord hits level 20+(or was it 30?), they can opt to become a demon prince.
I never found it very rewarding. You lose a lot of abilities/bonuses and the pay off just isn't immediate enough, particularly late in the game when everyone is fielding high end stuff. If it was more powerful but much more rare I'd be a fan, but it just doesn't work for me.
That's not to say that the math could pan out to be better as a Demon Prince, I never really did the deep research so don't take my opinion as authoritative.
Can you expand on this a bit? I feel like I'm missing something. So far the only use for souls I found was path of damnation and "the gift" mechanic.
How does this tie into demon hordes?
Certain demon units are unlocked by the Gift of Chaos mechanic thing. The options to dedicate souls to particular gods aren't open to use until you've unlocked them through research.
I found the souls situationally useful - especially daemons into the army. warbands are great - work hard, kill well and you will be rewarded.
Can you expand on this a bit? I feel like I'm missing something. So far the only use for souls I found was path of damnation and "the gift" mechanic.
How does this tie into demon hordes?
To Nels Point - How do you get to a demon prince? Is it a lord that needs to go through path of damnation?
I gather its likely no the optimal choice as a dragon lord is proly as good as it gets but more for flavour
Only played Valkia and as she is tied to Khorne - you could use souls to gaint the ability to either enhance your killing power or summon deamons - both for armies and in battle. You have limits to the former.
If you get your Lords to a high enough level you get options including Dameon Prince but you don't have to take them
Overread wrote: Most likely it means that they've optimised for a new processor architecture and thus boosted visual quality
More likely this is just TWW3's version of The Laboratory, which in TWW2 had some Intel tie in or sponsorship or something. If you go in to The Laboratory in TWW2, it says in the corner "powered by Intel" even if you happen to be running an AMD CPU, this will likely be the same.
I doubt CA would up the graphics quality for a new CPU generation (unless they were sitting on better settings already and were holding back because Intel was paying them lots of money, which I guess it possible).
Started new campaign as Grimgor..
What even the hell... The upkeep is insane. I'm guessing you can only do Gobbo spam ?
Trying to figure out a good strategy.
Greetings, WARHAMMER fans! We hope you’re sitting comfortably, because Update 2.2 is here and it is, in technical parlance, a ‘whopper’!
It’s been a little over a month since our last big patch in the shape of Update 2.1, which served to fix some of the problems flagged up before our huge 2.0 release. But now we’re ploughing full speed ahead into the feedback we received after the launch of 2.0 and Immortal Empires, and this chunky ol’ update is the result!
Here are some of the highlights:
Changes to settlements and garrisons to reduce the frequency of settlement battles.
Additional flavour for some of the special settlement garrisons—including Karak 8 Peaks, Black Pyramid, Skavenblight and more—by allowing them to use additional units.
A character experience rebalance, reducing the importance of victory types and focusing on enemy unit destruction.
Tweaks to the victory objectives of several legendary lords, including those of the Lizardmen, High Elves and Empire.
A game mode split option has been added to ranked multiplayer, letting you join separate queues and giving you greater control of your online experience.
Adjustments to AI aggression, strategy and overall game difficulty.
Plus, monsters are invading the old world in the form of Regiments of Renown III, and a new endgame crisis brings ruin-death to all! Yes-yes…
As always, now that Update 2.2 is in your hands, we’ll be keeping a close eye on all your feedback as our thoughts turn to 2.3, so please make your voices heard on our official channels:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Argive wrote: Started new campaign as Grimgor..
What even the hell... The upkeep is insane. I'm guessing you can only do Gobbo spam ?
Trying to figure out a good strategy.
It was fine for me in TW2 as long as you fought often - unless its changed in TW3
Im not sure to be honest... The location kind of just sucks and the starting troop quality and no easy acess to magic sucks. Maybe I've been spoiled by chaos lol.
You have Suneater/chaos immediately to the north and attrition if you try to push in to remove them.
Argive wrote: Im not sure to be honest... The location kind of just sucks and the starting troop quality and no easy acess to magic sucks. Maybe I've been spoiled by chaos lol.
You have Suneater/chaos immediately to the north and attrition if you try to push in to remove them.
Maybe im just not aggressive enough.
I've just finished Alarielle in TW2 so might give him a try in TW3 - he should play a bit like Valkia who I enjoyed
Had a quick go and seems to be ok - turn 4 I confederated the nearby orcs and now have 4 settlements and full stack of Boyz with a smaller stack starting to build - might try to push Kolek and try and get him done early but he has allies....
Argive wrote: Im not sure to be honest... The location kind of just sucks and the starting troop quality and no easy acess to magic sucks. Maybe I've been spoiled by chaos lol.
You have Suneater/chaos immediately to the north and attrition if you try to push in to remove them.
Maybe im just not aggressive enough.
I've just finished Alarielle in TW2 so might give him a try in TW3 - he should play a bit like Valkia who I enjoyed
Had a quick go and seems to be ok - turn 4 I confederated the nearby orcs and now have 4 settlements and full stack of Boyz with a smaller stack starting to build - might try to push Kolek and try and get him done early but he has allies....
Yeah, I think i made the mistake in and got bogged down in dealing with chaos... as you remove him more allies keep getting involved. As soon as you try to push south they come in from the north. Menawhile the north just isint relaly worth developing or holding. The attrition and the settlement maps make the whole thing a massive slog and as soon as I got past the tzeench and took the Cathay wall im now stuck fighting 2 cathay factions sending stack after stack.
Im putting this on pause until the new patch comes out.
Argive wrote: Im not sure to be honest... The location kind of just sucks and the starting troop quality and no easy acess to magic sucks. Maybe I've been spoiled by chaos lol.
You have Suneater/chaos immediately to the north and attrition if you try to push in to remove them.
Maybe im just not aggressive enough.
I've just finished Alarielle in TW2 so might give him a try in TW3 - he should play a bit like Valkia who I enjoyed
Had a quick go and seems to be ok - turn 4 I confederated the nearby orcs and now have 4 settlements and full stack of Boyz with a smaller stack starting to build - might try to push Kolek and try and get him done early but he has allies....
Yeah, I think i made the mistake in and got bogged down in dealing with chaos... as you remove him more allies keep getting involved. As soon as you try to push south they come in from the north. Menawhile the north just isint relaly worth developing or holding. The attrition and the settlement maps make the whole thing a massive slog and as soon as I got past the tzeench and took the Cathay wall im now stuck fighting 2 cathay factions sending stack after stack.
Im putting this on pause until the new patch comes out.
Patch is out - all battles so far (7) have been field battles with two being sallies out by settlement garisons. Yeah you gotta get stuck in - just finshed off Kholek on turn 7 and all seems to be going nicely. The ogres nearby should be useful and just rebuilidng my second army. Grimgors army is mostly Boyz and a few archers
Yeah I restarted the campaign. Smashed my way south as soon as khodlek and his vassals were dealt with. I think I managed to kill he whole region inside 9 turns.
The settlement battles were much easier in early game now.
Immediatly pushed south and just bettered everyone confederating the two orc faction in the area and been rampaging through ogre kindom territories.
Made more progress in 40 turns then I did in 100 turns previously. Pushing for war economy worked out. Got a full stack of black Orks with some magic and doom divers sprinkled in.
Argive wrote: Yeah I restarted the campaign. Smashed my way south as soon as khodlek and his vassals were dealt with. I think I managed to kill he whole region inside 9 turns.
The settlement battles were much easier in early game now.
Immediatly pushed south and just bettered everyone confederating the two orc faction in the area and been rampaging through ogre kindom territories.
Made more progress in 40 turns then I did in 100 turns previously. Pushing for war economy worked out. Got a full stack of black Orks with some magic and doom divers sprinkled in.
Argive wrote: Yeah I restarted the campaign. Smashed my way south as soon as khodlek and his vassals were dealt with. I think I managed to kill he whole region inside 9 turns.
The settlement battles were much easier in early game now.
Immediatly pushed south and just bettered everyone confederating the two orc faction in the area and been rampaging through ogre kindom territories.
Made more progress in 40 turns then I did in 100 turns previously. Pushing for war economy worked out. Got a full stack of black Orks with some magic and doom divers sprinkled in.
You dun the Boyz proud Boss
I smash dem good. Skelly boys, humies all sorts. Coz we is da biggest and da baddest
I have to say gian spider stack doest appear to be as effective as it was from what I recall. But then again ive been testing it agains bunch o slayers...
Im going to try high elves next once i wrap up this campaign.
Finally did a Cathay campaign. Was fun exploring parts of the map that I never been to before and there was no shortage of enemies to keep it interesting. The hardest part was that I was subsidizing and constantly expanding Goldtooth's empire as it was the friendliest faction and I didn't want Grimgor, various Chaos facions and Helmann on my border.
With that said, I feel like Ogres need a buff. Every campaign has them (the AI) getting rolled in short order by Helman or Grimgor and the AI doesn't seem to effectively use Camps. Their tier 1-2 units are pretty weak too, even after upgrades.
nels1031 wrote: Finally did a Cathay campaign. Was fun exploring parts of the map that I never been to before and there was no shortage of enemies to keep it interesting. The hardest part was that I was subsidizing and constantly expanding Goldtooth's empire as it was the friendliest faction and I didn't want Grimgor, various Chaos facions and Helmann on my border.
With that said, I feel like Ogres need a buff. Every campaign has them (the AI) getting rolled in short order by Helman or Grimgor and the AI doesn't seem to effectively use Camps. Their tier 1-2 units are pretty weak too, even after upgrades.
I agree. Seem like a pushover. Their auto resolve sucks big time. I have to say i think because its pretty much entirely monstrous infantry/cav it must be very difficult to balance.
I have found that vampires are just an endless wave and just stack after stack..
Greetings! The WARHAMMER III rollercoaster continues this month with Update 2.3 which, while not as hulking as last month’s mahoosive update, still offers a decent chunk of fixes, changes and improvements. Barring potential hotfixes, this is the last update we’ll have for you in 2022.
Before we get going, we wanted to mention the State of the Game post that dropped last month. We were delighted that many of you found it interesting, but are also aware that there are concerns and questions you have that weren’t touched upon. Fear not, brave adventurer – although we can’t always talk about everything we’re working on, we are listening, and we have another State of the Game post planned before Christmas that will take a broad look at the topics you’ve been talking about.
So, without further ado, here are some of 2.3’s highlights:
Customisable Endgame Scenarios make their way to multiplayer.
The eight original WARHAMMER I Lords receive brand-new selection videos.
Landmarks from Mortal Empires and the Realm of Chaos maps arrive in Immortal Empires, along with some new landmarks and 10-slot settlements for select factions.
Further tweaks to the victory objectives of several Legendary Lords including Kislev, Tomb Kings and the Ogre Kingdoms.
A sweep of balance changes to Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Skaven and more.
Changes to how the AI dodges spells, artillery and other ranged attacks, along with new difficulty adjustments.
War never ends and we’re always keeping close eye on your feedback – so please keep it coming. Everything you tell us helps us best decide where to focus our efforts for the next update, so let us know your thoughts and feelings about Update 2.3 and WARHAMMER III via our official channels:
Off the top of my head, here are the ones that I never play without :
Recruit defeated Legendary Lords - So that if you are playing as Karl Franz and any of the empire LL's get their faction destroyed, they'll join you if you want.
Unit Rarity/Cap - Limits units based on their Core/Special/Rare status from the 8th edition of WHFB. An Empire final tier barracks will only allow (x) amount of Greatswords to be recruited. There are variations of this mod that are all imperfect, but they still give us hard choices on how to build our armies.
Land Encounters - Much like how there are encounters at sea, this puts little markers on the map where you can fight various random armies. Most are thematic and make it possible to receive really good rewards. Some are pretty damn hard, like one where Skarbrand has a full stack of Bloodthirsters. They are mostly avoidable and out of the way, so if you don't want to partake or can't, they can be avoided. Its also one way where you can get the perks for defeating LL's that might be way across the map.
Tier IV minor settlements. I like options, so being limited to just tier 3 buildings is kind of a bummer, particularly with the Unit Cap mod listed above. Doesn't work for all factions as Ogres are built around camps instead.
Chaos Confederations - If you beat a Chaos LL, he can join your faction, much like Norsca and O+G factions when you defeat their faction leader. Honestly not sure if this is a mod or a feature added in a patch, now that I think about it.
One button respec - Resets your Lord or Hero skill selection. Particularly useful for when you confederate an AI faction and their skill choices are all over the map.
If you were deeply offended by cloak animation problems and Karak 8 Peaks not being a 10 slot settlement for skaven, this is the patch for you.
Also Immortal Empires is available to everyone, but you still don't get access to any race from games/dlc you don't own, so...
I guess this is really exciting for someone, but not sure who.
If you were deeply offended by cloak animation problems and Karak 8 Peaks not being a 10 slot settlement for skaven, this is the patch for you.
Also Immortal Empires is available to everyone, but you still don't get access to any race from games/dlc you don't own, so...
I guess this is really exciting for someone, but not sure who.
If, unlike me you don't have all the games / DLC its a very good day.
Or wait until one of the regular sales when Warhammer 1-2 go down to much lower prices.
But yeah getting access to the open play map even just with W3 armies is still a massive boon for those who want the open play and to fight against other races without having to own them; but of course the best value is having all 3 games and dlc in one massive single game
Honestly, high time considering that WH3's normal campaign was poo. So poo infact that the main gimick had to be modded out to be enjoyable at all as a sandbox that TW is.
Congrats, took only a year for CA to fix that issue.
nels1031 wrote: Some sweet, sweet Chaos Dwarf tease at the end of their video.
Not sure 10 seconds of a mine is 'sweet,' but the several minutes recreating the Council of Rivendell with warhammer characters didn't do much for me.
Overead wrote:Or wait until one of the regular sales when Warhammer 1-2 go down to much lower prices.
I was surprised to find the old games are still $60. That's kinda absurd.
But I expect they'll be discounted of the Steam Spring Sale in a month, so people should probably wait for that.
Not even that long, they will likely one or both be on sale during Easter. Sales are so often on Steam that many developers don't lower the price of the main product because there's a sale around the corner and a good portion of people who will only buy if something is on sale.
So its better to have a higher base price and more profits between sales and then more people grabbing the game during a sale because its 80% off; than it is to have a lower base price and the either no sale or only a small percentage during a big sales event.
Overread wrote: Not even that long, they will likely one or both be on sale during Easter. Sales are so often on Steam that many developers don't lower the price of the main product because there's a sale around the corner and a good portion of people who will only buy if something is on sale.
So its better to have a higher base price and more profits between sales and then more people grabbing the game during a sale because its 80% off; than it is to have a lower base price and the either no sale or only a small percentage during a big sales event.
I don't agree with that at all. Years old games have no business still being at release list price. That isn't, for the most part, how this industry functions.
Keeping them that way is a trap for customers oblivious to sales.
3! LLs out of the gate and some hobgob hobo as a legendary hero. (And this will be the model going forward)
Don't care for the mechsuit (but then, the FW remake was something that passed me by. I know the old stuff). Most of the old staples seem to be there. Characters seem to have Proper Hats, but not all the units do.
Looks like political infighting and slavery faction mechanics. Not a lot of real information.
There’s also some free content with the Total War: Warhammer 3 Chaos Dwarfs DLC, as both Kislev and The Empire will have access to Legendary Hero Ulrika Magdova, a vampire excelling at hybrid melee and ranged combat, and even some spellcasting too.
grumbles that she is not available for vampires....
For _$25_ (tho 10% preorder discount), which is pretty hefty jump in DLC pricing.
Champions of Chaos was 16, Ogres were 12 (if you didn't preorder the game).
Older race packs are showing up as $19 if you're buying them for TW3.
I think one difference is that they are putting more lords into this back so potentially its more to get the pack, but there might not be an expansion tier later. So you get more of a package up front .
There’s also some free content with the Total War: Warhammer 3 Chaos Dwarfs DLC, as both Kislev and The Empire will have access to Legendary Hero Ulrika Magdova, a vampire excelling at hybrid melee and ranged combat, and even some spellcasting too.
grumbles that she is not available for vampires....
Can't wait to put her in an army with Gotrek and Felix!
Also, I've been getting CTD every time I try to load up TW3 for about a week and a half now. Reading the steam discussions, the 2.4 update jacked something up. My game became gradually more unstable until now I can't even load the game up. I've done everything that they say to prevent crashes, but once I get to the first loading screen... CTD. Hoping a hotfix is coming or that its not something on the hardware side on my end.
The art of those unit cards is an interesting choice. Most are fine, some are... really not. (The face on the basic axe and shield warrior just looks like some guy off the street)
At least it looks like a very complete roster out of the gate, even if there is a fair amount of redundancy. It might lack a bit of anti-large (though not AP), but with the guns and artillery I doubt that matters. By and large, the army has everything
I think I like the idea of a main stack followed by artillery train filled out with gobbos. Use them as the primary siege stack (gobbos split between bullet catchers for the big guns and first wave on the walls) while the reinforcing chaos dwarves arrive.
Good thing. Watching the Ashtaroth video, chaos dwarf units have unit caps (like tomb kings), even on basic warriors, so there will be a fair few gobbos early on. On the upside, good stuff starts showing up early. Basic Taurus is tier 2, which is fantastic for a flying monster, as are 3 of the artillery units.
There are a lot of systems in play for the CD, including settlement types, labor and influence, but at least they keep the basics, like underway stance.
In keeping with the themes of TW3, the campaign goal is drilling into Hashut's realm and stealing his blood.
For a showcase, it doesn't tell us much about him. He's in the corner down near the blue roses, nurgle (though that start might have been moved, as its completely unmentioned) and Greasus.
But... the real tea is about the unit caps and unit upgrades. I was wrong, they don't use the TK system (ie, more buildings=more units), they use the Beastmen system, where you pay (in armaments, in this case) to raise unit caps and buy temporary upgrades (like frenzy).
The caps are on groups of units- all varieties of bull centaur and most of the artillery, as examples.
The chaos dwarves use half-a-dozen systems cobbled from other factions and reflavored (unit caps, influence, caravans, etc)
Good thing. Watching the Ashtaroth video, chaos dwarf units have unit caps (like tomb kings), even on basic warriors, so there will be a fair few gobbos early on. On the upside, good stuff starts showing up early. Basic Taurus is tier 2, which is fantastic for a flying monster, as are 3 of the artillery units.
There are a lot of systems in play for the CD, including settlement types, labor and influence, but at least they keep the basics, like underway stance.
In keeping with the themes of TW3, the campaign goal is drilling into Hashut's realm and stealing his blood.
honestly, instead of the FLC hero, i'd rather have had a hobgoblin khanate.
but CA and Sega gonna CA and Sega, ergo make sure to feth over their community at every point.
Good thing. Watching the Ashtaroth video, chaos dwarf units have unit caps (like tomb kings), even on basic warriors, so there will be a fair few gobbos early on. On the upside, good stuff starts showing up early. Basic Taurus is tier 2, which is fantastic for a flying monster, as are 3 of the artillery units.
There are a lot of systems in play for the CD, including settlement types, labor and influence, but at least they keep the basics, like underway stance.
In keeping with the themes of TW3, the campaign goal is drilling into Hashut's realm and stealing his blood.
honestly, instead of the FLC hero, i'd rather have had a hobgoblin khanate.
but CA and Sega gonna CA and Sega, ergo make sure to feth over their community at every point.
They need to save something for the DLC, and the Khanate seems like the best one to have more unique rules compared to the rest.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hobgoblin Khanate sound fun in theory, but how would it work in practice? Can you base an entire TWW faction on 6 units?
Yes.
Indeed less is sometimes more as it goes for TW. Rome 1 is mechanically better than rome 2 by miles and has less units, nvm the factions actually feel and play distinct but that has to do with the TW stagnation and engine.
Medieval and empire trump mechanically 3 kingdoms everyday of the week.
The Hobgoblin warror miniatures had shields and hand weapons. That can easily become Spears, Spears+Shields, hand weapons, hand weapons+shields, 2 hand weapons. Then an obligatory archer unit. That is 6 basic infantry which is plenty.
Wolf riders. Again, just go through the different iterations. Hand weapons+shields, spears/lances+shields, 2 hand weapons, and archers.
Wolf chariots are an obvious addition. Chariots with spears, chariots with 2 hand weapons, and chariots with bows.
Bolt Thrower, maybe a bolt thrower chariot. Catapult chariot.
Hobhound handlers and Hobhounds would be a beast unit option.
So not counting lords/heroes, that would be 17 units that could be directly inferred just from their few existing models. Then you add regiments of renown for a few of the unit types and you are in the 20+ units range.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hobgoblin Khanate sound fun in theory, but how would it work in practice? Can you base an entire TWW faction on 6 units?
Now, now. You're not supposed to be realistic about why CA isn't doing a niche lore sub-faction they never said they would.
It's struck me that CA has been allotted the freedom to do a lot of things independent of GW, or at least been granted more leeway by GW on account of the Old World not being an active product in-house anymore.
Grand Cathay and Kisliev didn't have armies before, right? If they can make factions from no armies, I imagine they can make factions from 6 units. Whether it will be any good... Well, I guess I don't care XD I don't play multiplayer battles and the AI is dumb enough unit balance is rarely important in my experience. Just pick the fun stuff and smash.
Cathay and Nippon were always in the lore but never in models, Araby only got models in Warmaster where they got a complete army.
Thing is I think as Warhammer 1 and 2 went on to become bigger and bigger and as GW got out of the Kirby era and the Old World became something that they were going to market again; I think adding Cathay and Nippon as armies became more and more viable. I think that Cathay being added is simply that GW decided they were going to do it as well and so gave CA advanced concept work to play with. It might even have been GW experimenting to see how well Cathay would be received.
Heck there were several factions/armies in the lore that never got armies and CA could have gone with any one of them instead of Cathay
LordofHats wrote: It's struck me that CA has been allotted the freedom to do a lot of things independent of GW, or at least been granted more leeway by GW on account of the Old World not being an active product in-house anymore.
Grand Cathay and Kisliev didn't have armies before, right? If they can make factions from no armies, I imagine they can make factions from 6 units. Whether it will be any good... Well, I guess I don't care XD I don't play multiplayer battles and the AI is dumb enough unit balance is rarely important in my experience. Just pick the fun stuff and smash.
Speaking from experience, the new stuff comes from GW. CA has input, but GW doesn't let other people invent their stuff.
What they have is a very good working relationship that means there's more back and forth.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hobgoblin Khanate sound fun in theory, but how would it work in practice? Can you base an entire TWW faction on 6 units?
Skarsnik and Grom can already buff their gobbo units very high to make them viable through to the end game.
Was Drycha able to take elves in her army list back in the day? It's been a long time, but they handwave it by having her pay higher upkeep and the glamour excuse. They could make chaos dwarf units pay a higher upkeep and handwave their presence as being mercenaries.
Another beast of a download & install. 13 GB. Download went pretty quick, updating is taking a dogs age (about an hour, all told, depending on how long the last 13% takes. Its hard to say because its still jumping between 15 minutes and 2 minutes on the time remaining.)
Full game now sits at 108 GB.
Also, if you want Ulrika for the Empire and Kislev, you need to go through the CA account rigmarole, but from inside the game, which is the opposite of the way they used to do it. And if you have an existing CA account you need to link it to the steam account and then you don't know if it worked, because she needs to be unlocked through an in-game quest, so... feth all that.
Also, if you want Ulrika for the Empire and Kislev, you need to go through the CA account rigmarole, but from inside the game, which is the opposite of the way they used to do it. And if you have an existing CA account you need to link it to the steam account and then you don't know if it worked, because she needs to be unlocked through an in-game quest, so... feth all that.
It's really painless to do. Actually easier than ever before. If you've already done it for the other games you literally just have to sign in and click link account and you're done.
Once enabled you can pick her in skirmish games as a normal hero for Kisleve. It's only in the campaign that you need to unlock her.
Also, if you want Ulrika for the Empire and Kislev, you need to go through the CA account rigmarole, but from inside the game, which is the opposite of the way they used to do it. And if you have an existing CA account you need to link it to the steam account and then you don't know if it worked, because she needs to be unlocked through an in-game quest, so... feth all that.
It's really painless to do. Actually easier than ever before. If you've already done it for the other games you literally just have to sign in and click link account and you're done.
Its really not. I had to start and exit the game and convince the login page that I already had an existing account (and I could only find that out by trying to create a new account with the same email address, upon which it informed me that I could link accounts) and then I had to leave and then actually log in to the website with no confirmation that much of anything was happening and then start up the game for a fourth time to find out if she was actually in my game if I got around to unlocking her.
Under the old system, I logged into the CA account, hit download and then a DLC would appear on the game's page in my steam library. The only difficulty there was remembering what I bothered to put in as an email and password for a website I almost never visit.
Once enabled you can pick her in skirmish games as a normal hero for Kisleve. It's only in the campaign that you need to unlock her.
There is a lot to unpack with the Chaos Dwarves. I’m sure it’ll be second nature soon enough, but its somewhat overwhelming.
There's a lot of layers to it, and the beginning feels like you have to neglect certain things (I've burning workers on conclave influence a lot (and control, honestly. It helps the labor bleed), armaments have been low priority, and raw resources are a desperate need all the time). Once the tech tree starts to unfold, it gets pretty crazy. Between Zhatan's bonuses and the military research, I think new units are coming on at rank 4 or 5 now. I'm getting my first bull centaur unit next turn, and I've found that they have a tech buff that gives them perfect vigor at rank 7. That's kind of insane.
The hobgoblin hero feels like a crutch to make the faction work in the early game, because his buffs are outrageously strong.
Started with Zhatan, and Villitch feels like a dedicated spoiler- he hung out in my territory a while (rather than, you know, fighting Cathay), and once I started fighting Cathay, he turned on a dime and attacked me. Killed the dragon lady and then went back for him, and now it seems like I'm just going to steamroll through minor factions.
After a few mishaps on building the wrong stuff and pushing in the wrong direction, I've restarted and now have a solid base with a great economy.
I took out the usual turn 1 enemy, Imrik's faction, then the Bartertown Ogre Kingdoms and Tretch Craventail who was a pain in the ass. Ghorst delclared war on me when he was in no position to do anything meaningful and I took Flayed Rock and I'm going to push to take that entire southern road province while eliminating him.
Grimgor is getting pretty big, so I might have to take him on next, but I also want to take out the NPC Chaos Dwarf faction north of me.
I will say, unlocking unit caps for Chaos Dwarves is much more forgiving and accessible then Beasts of Chaos, who have a similar mechanic.
Maybe about 25-ish turns in and I already have a full stack all Chorf unit army that is an absolute tank. Got some artillery unlocking next turn and then the pain train starts going.
I'm actually surprised Grimgor has been quiet in my Zhatan campaign. I figured convoys and anti-player bias would shove him my way.
But he's been sitting on two settlements for a long time. I suspect he and Kholek have been army trading, because both (and Kholek's vassal) have been almost completely static all game. I'm starting to snowball so I may soon send some hobgobs and an laborer/artillery train that way to put an end to that.
I need to check the world situation when I get back to it this evening, but given the number of destroyed ogre factions, someone has consolidated in the Mountains of Mourn, but I'm not sure who. Hopefully they're at war with the other Cathayan dragon, as I really need strip mines (and labor) to raise towers higher and higher.
I'm wondering if there is ever a situation where you wouldn't want to make a main settlement a Tower, instead of a Factory or Outpost when you capture one. You unlock so many great buildings with a tower and its integral to the "Seats/Districts" mechanic that I have yet to run into a situation where I wouldn't want another tower.
In regards to Factory/Outposts, I find myself just doing an alternating build. Most of the provinces in The Dark Lands are 3 settlements, so I've been going Tower in the main settlement, then 1 Factory, then 1 Outpost. And on it goes as I take more provinces. Is there any benefit to going Tower/Outpost/Oupost, or the opposite? I haven't really looked at the mechanics deeply, just going off of what gets me gold primarily, then Labor/Armaments.
The main thing against Towers is the resource cost, each fully upgraded tower requires thousands of raw materials, and if you're going 1 to 1 on outposts and factories, you're going to be eating a lot of what you produce, slowing the rate of improving all those towers.
The perfect balance is hard to say. Factories do have a building that buff raw resource production for the whole province, so that's a consideration.
On the other hand, factories don't have labor/workload costs, while outposts do, so that's another issue to consider. 3 or 4 outposts are going to have an absurd labor demand, and the sheer numbers are going to die real fast with no real benefit. (Large labor numbers decrease control, and the lower the control, a larger percentage dies off. Better to spread them out and sacrifice your surplus population for gold or influence)
I did turn Vilitch's homestead into tower/factory (its a two settlement province) and don't need to bother with labor there at all, but its still useful to have some for the sacrifice buttons. I suspect I might have been better off with two factories there, because that's an utterly pointless corner of the map.
One other thing to consider with CD is that the tech tree has buffs for recruitment costs, global recruitment and global recruitment time reduction. And lots of ways to get gold You don't necessarily need towers for unit production all over the place, and the Temples of Hashut at tier 5 are a ridiculous investment. They're real good, but impractical in the early-game and probably mid-game
That said, my early economy got rather wrecked by Vilitch, and I got a lot further in research and province expansion than I did in vertical buildings and unit unlocks and caps, and its probably warping my perspective a bit.
I care a lot more about raw resources and labor than I do about gold, and armaments have been relatively low priority. Gold is easy. Just fight a battle, get gold, then sacrifice labor for more gold when needed.
One thing I would suggest never, ever doing is spending conclave influence to increase the starting level of a tower. That should be reserved for seats or some of the really tasty research. The benefits of the seats are simply too high to waste influence this way. (Well, once you've unlocked everything, then you can spend your pointless excess on towers)
The level of detail for the Chaos Dwarves is insane. I'm not sure if it's actually deep yet or just looks deep, but it's seems far more complex than most DLC factions.
The convoy system needs some work. Its most obvious as Zhatan, as it comes up early, but when you're sending convoys to yourself, spending gold and guns you don't get back for raw materials or slaves you don't have, it feels a little weird.
Same with buying materials or 'labor' from King Louen after he takes Grung Zhint, or potentially sending caravans to people you're at war with (not 100% sure on that one, but I can check now that I'm at war with Ghorst- turns out, yes, you can ).
It also just doesn't have much variety. Gold or guns for labor or materials (or guns for gold). And early game, trading away guns is... bad (had a fun 10 turns when only one destination was taking gold).
----
Well, the great war for Cathay has begun. Not against the Cathayans, who've been dead a while, but the Blessed Dread, because they decided to move against Greasus in the mountains (and we recently allied). I cut Clan Eshin loose from treaties for later (they've got a toehold on a region they won't trade away and may just drag me into another bad war), and they immediately declared war. Which is unfortunate for them, as I have an army moving east to clear out their three cities, and their armies are way out of position.
Next turn I get to use my army with three dreadquakes and two magma cannons, and confederate with, well, whomever I want. Probably the Legion of Azgorh, as they're in too many wars and have the fewest cities.
Weirdest thing so far: Wood Elf forests can be level 5 towers, with a full span of buildings. Unfortunately, most settlements don't get a Chaos Dwarf treatment when they're taken over. Sadly including Dwarf holds, which is disappointing.
Olthannon wrote: Restarted my Thorgrim game with the new update, keen to bear some grudges against our naughty Dawi kin.
I might do the same with Grimgor.
Got to the top tier with my Drazoath campaign, confederated all the playable Chaos Dwarf factions as well as the final NPC faction that controls the capital. Went out to conquer with my newly recruited high tier armies and mostly everything was already dead or near dead. I might have to mod it so that certain factions stay strong, if such a thing exists. Was a lot of fun, might do another campaign of his and try some different strategies. Tried to do a runof the other Chaos Dwarf factions but I didn't care for their neighborhood. The mechanical leg dude has a solid defensive postion, which could be kind of boring. Felt the same with Zhatan. Drazoath on the other hand was constant war from start to finish. Any time you expanded, there'd be a new and different faction that hates you.
I had the mod that allowed the Hashut drilling questline mechanic in Immortal Empires. Love me some extra quest battles and narratives. Though it seems bugged at a certain point, but not game breakingly bugged. Got some pretty high tier items to give Drazoath all purple gear.
Well, started a bit of a make or break run.
Drazoath, ultimate crisis asap.
Mostly to test if the Chaos dwarfs and i are up to task.
Personal opinion on the DLC:
On one hand, it is highly polished. The lords play decent, the chaos dwarf roster is nice, HIP HIP HURRAY FOR RELOAD ANIMATIONS!, (i swear CA has fallen deep when that is a positive).
Otoh: 3 instead of 4 lords is lackluster, the roster still is small and even though it's polished it is a marked lower content ammount than what was offered before.
FLC content is ... ehh, on one hand there would've been 2 better choices, the Hobgolin Khanate and the northern tyrant that is allied to the chaos dwarfs.
Overall, if you like big hats, chaos dwarfs, and Hashut (funnily enough the name of the god literally can mean in some swiss german dialects if you have a hat) it's worth it.
From a content and objective standpoint, it's a steep asking price.
Puzzled by the roster (and lord) complaints, as its a lot better than several factions (especially Cathay, Kislev and Ogres, including some older ones like Norsca).
Ally ogres to dip into their roster is easy, O&G takes a bit more work (but honestly, doesn't offer much, and is more than a bit anti-fluff).
Voss wrote: Puzzled by the roster (and lord) complaints, as its a lot better than several factions (especially Cathay, Kislev and Ogres, including some older ones like Norsca).
Ally ogres to dip into their roster is easy, O&G takes a bit more work (but honestly, doesn't offer much, and is more than a bit anti-fluff).
Ya, I'm actually satisfied with the roster, I just thought it'd be cool for them to lord over some of their neighboring greenskin/Ogre factions. I think it fit better fluffwise for them to have vassals with the "lesser" races then it would for them to be allied.
I tend to get Greasus on my side and kind of subsidize his defense, as I can't stand watching the Mountains of Mourn get overrun by non-Ogre factions.
Also, I'd vassalize O&G to get Black Orcs back under the Chaos Dwarf yolk, as Hashut intended.
Voss wrote: Puzzled by the roster (and lord) complaints, as its a lot better than several factions (especially Cathay, Kislev and Ogres, including some older ones like Norsca).
Ally ogres to dip into their roster is easy, O&G takes a bit more work (but honestly, doesn't offer much, and is more than a bit anti-fluff).
The lord complaint is not about the lords themselves, they are done well, it's just that we get 3 when before we got 4 before. And even IF there wasn't a place for a 4th named chaos dwarf lord, there STILL would've been the place for an hybrid ogre tyrant lord, namly the one that got a mechanical bull and imports massed cannons. (the name eludes me right now.) or even more important ghorth the cruel, which is traded as the current strongest sorcerer-prophet and technically the liege of zhatan.
Edit: Found it : Ghark Ironskin and his mechanical rhinox.
I picked up the Short Victory with Chaos Dwarfs, but honestly, I don't love the faction.
They're certainly more complex than most other races due to using multiple resources, but I don't know if complex is good or even desirable.
I do think that they're not as strong as many people claim.
I went to play Gelt just for Magdova quest line and I knocked it out with zero issues before turn 50 (along with confederating Averland and Rheinhardt). The Empire still feels dramatically more powerful to me without mods.
Olthannon wrote: Is anyone else having a problem with the load campaign from the Launcher? It seems to not load my most recent save which is a bit annoying..
Was it started before or after the latest patch? Only if it was pre-patch it might be because its an older game version
Olthannon wrote: Is anyone else having a problem with the load campaign from the Launcher? It seems to not load my most recent save which is a bit annoying..
Was it started before or after the latest patch? Only if it was pre-patch it might be because its an older game version
Both.
I had the same issue when I was playing before the patch and I started a new game after the new patch so it's not an older game version.
trexmeyer wrote: I picked up the Short Victory with Chaos Dwarfs, but honestly, I don't love the faction.
They're certainly more complex than most other races due to using multiple resources, but I don't know if complex is good or even desirable.
Its very gameable. Working with multiple resources takes some getting used to, but once you hit the tipping point, the faction goes insane and you can have level 5 buildings and units in a single turn
I do think that they're not as strong as many people claim..
They've got some quirks. Monstrous infantry and cav tend to be a problem, as there is a lack of anti-large and a lot of the artillery just... doesn't do much against large creatures, even though it should (I watched crypt horrors just stand still and ignore my magma cannons for five minutes, which made no sense to me. They do so much damage, I figured a model per shot, but no). The main answer to flyers is blunderbusses, which shouldn't even work, but whatever. A cloud of short ranged missiles just shreds things, I guess.
On the other hand, massed infantry just die, and a mixed army will get dribs and drabs of cav to your lines, but won't last long. The blunderbusses and fire pikes also shred characters, so that isn't much of a problem. The magic is largely nasty, and the tech and conclave upgrades are flatly insane.
Of course, some of what works against the AI just won't work against a human player, but that's a different issue.
----
I have discovered I hate the late game crisis. It's just tedious, rather than fun, especially if you're a long way away from where they spawn. I let my game go ( I had already gotten the short and long victory) rather than keep slogging through the Empire (and then Bretonnia) to wrap up the vampires. Ghorst's re-infestation I handled with a single army in 3 turns (lightning strike helped). And it only took that long because they respawned after I wiped out the first wave. I had also taken his magic forest, turned it into a level 5 tower and rush built the dreadquake bombard building. And had 4 dreadquakes in the army. \shrug.
That became the standard, by the by. Take the province capital, reorder the labor to rush build the dreadquake building and walls and keep pressing the attack.
It got a bit dull. But the crisis mode definitely doesn't add fun. Just chasing more stacks around.
Voss wrote: And had 4 dreadquakes in the army. \shrug.
For funnsies, I installed the mod that adds 4 pieces of artillery for the Chaos Dwarfs, instead of the default 1 piece(Like how Empire gets a handful of cannons). 16 Dreadquakes was hilarious to see. Until one of the 4 DQ's destroyed what I had targeted and then auto targeted the closest enemy unit which was damn near smack in the middle of my line of infantry. 1 Infernal Guard unit wiped down to 3 folks in one round of shooting. Took more casualties then the Chaos Knights that the mortar was targeting.
I do appreciate how this factions makes you make some hard choices in early/mid game, but once you get the proper balance set sup for resources, its a breeze(as you said). Not sure if any nerfs are needed to individual units regarding power levels, but I wouldn't be mad if they made the armament costs a bit higher to recruit the high end stuff.
Blunderbusses and Bull Centaurs seem to be just a bit too good. The Blunderbusses just seem to shred absolutely anything and everything and the Bull Centaurs are cheaper and better Dragon Ogres....
The artillery building is also a right pain when you are fighting against them - playing an Imrik campaign at the moment
I don't know if it's mods...I think it is mods, but the stupid game has been crashing constantly. Ended up uninstalling it. I've had it crash too many times after turning an AR defeat into a manual victory. I don't recall this happening in my unmodded campaigns. I think it might be Legendary Characters because I know that one has scripts that repeatedly break.
I know The Empire doesn't "need" an overhaul, but they're a bit bland at the moment despite being perfectly fine in IE. I think the Vampire Coast needs an overhaul badly, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
When I had massive crashing shortly after the last patch, it was because I had a saved character that was no longer valid. It was either because of previous mods or something that changed his skills. I deleted the file and game runs fine. Didn’t even know I had a saved character, must’ve done it by accident. Once I get home, I’ll find you the path to the file.
I know threre is currently a ctd bug with selecting skills which is happening frequently to me, though there is a mod that seems to fix it until CA fixes it officially
This fixed my CTD issue weeks ago : Users\”yourname”\Appdata\Roaming\TheCreativeAssembly\Warhammer3\saved_characters
Deleted that and any old saves and I was good to go.
3.1 soonish.
some random Regiment of Renown units
another legendary hero
chaos dwarfs as an end game scenario
assorted fixes
4.0 late summer- DLC- tzeentch, cathay, kislev, 3 LLs 1 LH (tzeentch for the hero), achievements for IE, another swing at settlement battles
5.0 end of the year. DLC- Nurgle, Empire, Dwarfs. another LH (supposedly hinted at already), a legendary artifact like the sword of Khaine- the Nemesis Crown (my memories of that summer campaign are so deeply engrained and valued: it definitely happened. The end).
6.0 next spring (2024) another 3-fer DLC, with another Legendary hero. No factions named, probably slaanesh or khorne (because there is an obvious trend), hopefully fething Ogres. And Norsca, because, well... two LLs.
4.0 and 5.0 are a little boggling, because they're soliciting suggestions and complaints. Especially for 4.0, the DLC should already be completely mapped out.
Well the changes they are soliciting for are balance changes. Ergo super simple changing a few numbers around kind of changes.
And that's to be expected, you can internally test, but then release to the market as you go and take on board feedback and user experiences to see if the internal testing worked out well or if there are gaps/issues that rise.
Also its about making the community feel involved, you do ask them to contribute ideas and sure perhaps some are too elaborate for an already planned release in 4.0 or 5.0, but they might go through into 6.0 and such.
Playing with the Southern Realms mod, which adds all sorts of life to Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes as well as a few Tilean explorers that start in the Lustria or Cathay.
Currently about 50 turns into a Borgio the Besieger campaign and its been great fun. Recently took Skavenblight from Ikit and repopulated a fully Beastmen overrun Estalia. Pretty wild how much TLC went into this fan-made content.
Might give Gashnag the Black Prince a test next time I start a campaign. A Strigoi vampire posing as a just ruler in the southern Border Princes that's referenced in the RPG books and 7th Edition Vampires Army book. He looks awesome!
Had never been a big proponent of fan made factions but this is pretty legit.
The Shadows of Change pack introduces 3 new Legendary Lords for Tzeentch, Grand Cathay, and Kislev, usable in both the Realm of Chaos and Immortal Empires campaigns.
Inject new Legendary Lords, Heroes, and Units into your games to vastly expand your methods of play on the campaign map and within battles. The Changeling, Yuan Bo, and Mother Ostankya each bring their own unique campaign mechanics to their races, with goals separate from the Realm of Chaos campaign, and new units to help them pursue victory on their terms.
3 new Legendary Lords emerge from the shadows.
Perform dastardly schemes and trickery with the Changeling of Tzeentch.
Establish and execute grand stratagems on a global scale as Yuan Bo of Grand Cathay.
Conjure powerful hexes and incantations whilst engaging in witchcraft, flipping campaigns on their head as Mother Ostankya of Kislev.
Scatter magical spells at random with the Blue Scribes of Tzeentch; a new Legendary Hero.
Expand your roster with 11 additional units, and enhance your troops with 9 new Regiments of Renown.
I make my home in the darkest pits of your soul. In the shadows, I bide my time.
As a mighty Horror of Tzeentch, the Changeling embodies the Changer of Ways’ most deceiving and manipulative tendencies. Able to morph into any legendary character from the noble to the fearsome, the Changeling’s true form has been lost to time. His trickery may even deceive the Dark Gods themselves, able to mirror foes, create false allies, and disrupt empires from within, with only one truth becoming clear long after he’s enacted his handiwork.
The deceiving prankster of the known world, the Changeling of Tzeentch, was here.
As a spellcasting shapeshifter bolstering the Lore of Tzeentch, the Changeling can adopt the form of any lord he faces, making his battle efficiency grow stronger as your enemy tries to do the same. When not fighting directly, he lingers in the shadows, stalking his prey, and waiting for the optimal time to strike.
Trust no one.
The Changeling’s inscrutable and random nature is the perfect recipe for schemes and trickery. For the Changeling, the world is divided into Theatres; segmented regions that contain Schemes, both minor and pivotal. Fuelled by an unending legion of tricksy cultists, to achieve his goals he must first break a Theatre down through smaller, cheekier Schemes by constructing buildings, stealing identities, and instigating tensions amongst otherwise civilized populations, culminating in a Grand Scheme and an epic battle for supremacy, rife with bountiful rewards along the way.
Gold, Grimoires, and Rifts aplenty.
With enough Grand Schemes carried out, the Changeling’s final purpose is within reach: conducting the Ultimate Scheme for campaign victory.
This troublesome Legendary Hero, the Blue Scribes, ride atop their Disc of Tzeentch, scribbling on parchment as they go, and are capable of spewing all manner of spells across the battlefield by verbalising their scrolls. If only they knew what those words meant...
Those in other nations may deny it, but all mortals desire control. To be controlled, that is.
Ruling over Central Cathay, Yuan Bo, the Jade Dragon leads the Court of Celestial Sorcerers. A bureaucrat of the highest order on the surface, yes, but a talented spymaster at heart, the Jade Dragon runs the city of Wei-jin and, by extension, is an administrator for the Cathay empire. Liked by all, the good of Grand Cathay is in capable hands.
Serving two roles between his human and dragon forms, the Jade Dragon can be a devastating single target destroyer, and a potent spellcaster with the Light, Yin, and Heaven lores of magic. Soar above the battlefield as a dragon, burning down even the strongest of enemy units, or take the fight on the ground with game-changing spells at your side.
Cathay stands, all the same.
Engage in a chess match unlike any other with the Matters of State. As a master statesman, a right hand to the emperor and a spymaster, Yuan Bo’s influence over the kingdom runs deep. With this power, enact overt and covert policies across settlements, armies and even characters to best suit your empire’s needs. Crack down on settlement corruption, rush construction for your entire empire in a single move, create diplomatic deadlocks to move freely through unfriendly territories, and much, much more.
Go beyond mere balance and embrace disharmony, leveraging it as an excuse to serve more severe and extreme actions to fit your agenda, and plan chains of actions to ensure the balance of harmony is pulled back in your favour when all is said and done.
Yuan Bo doesn’t follow the rules. He writes them.
With a plan centuries in the making under the request of Yuan Bo’s father, the Jade Dragon is tasked with travelling to critical locations and constructing relays to empower the Jade Compass, before defending them from the Lizardmen incursions trying to dismantle Cathay.
Destroy them, and plot a course to victory.
For years we thought she was a child's tale to frighten us into behaving. Then one day, in my twentieth winter, I got too close to the woods. And when I was told Mother Ostankya would get you... I knew if I took one step closer to the trees it would be true.
Tales of monsters and bogeymen have haunted many lands for centuries, but the tale hanging above the Kislevite children, a reminder of the consequences for displaying disobedience, was not just a tale. Mother Ostankya is real. A guardian, faithful to the land, holding anyone who seeks to harm it accountable, she draws her power from the very woods, fens and oblasts that she protects. When war comes knocking, she’ll be on the front lines, protecting the warriors of Kislev, and inflicting her terror upon any who oppose them.
And if you cross her path, make no mistake. Mother Ostankya will punish you.
As a powerful sorceress with a bespoke melee component, Mother Ostankya utilises her cauldron on and off the battlefield, able to rain spirits down upon her foes from afar or sprout the legs of a spider in melee combat as an artillery-chariot hybrid.
The Daughters of the Forest must infuse Mother Ostankya’s Witchcraft at the Witch’s Hut. With a new rare resource, Spirit Essence, you can take advantage of ingredients gathered during your playthrough to create potent Incantations and utilise Hexes to vastly change the course of your entire campaign.
Force enemy armies from your lands in an instant, purge entire provinces of corruption in a single move, buff your units far beyond their given capability, and unleash the full might of the witch as you search for the Malediction of Ruin; Mother Ostankya’s final Hex to secure the sanctity of Kislevite land.
Welcome a world of change with new additional units for Tzeentch, Grand Cathay, and Kislev.
Field an abomination with the Mutalith Vortex Beast for Tzeentch, a horrific fusion of monster and magic, created by the powers of Chaos beyond any justifiable reason. It brings raw, magical destruction to the table with violent spectacle.
It won’t take a compass to find the new additions to the Cathayan roster.
Crafted by the wizards of the Celestial Court, Guardian Lions are living statues made from Jet or Jade. For those seeking a magical touch, the Jade Lion is a sorcerer's conduit, able to use spells bound to its body and launch flaming attacks. The Jet Lion, however, is the opposite, countering magical spells to diminish any sorcery that may harm themselves or those nearby.
Plus, new Kislevite units lurk in these woods.
A terrible and frightening creature, known to many as The Thing in the Woods, brings its enormous size and infantry sundering capability to the frontlines of Kislev. Left unchecked, this beast will tear through enemy troops like paper, before rushing into the woods for cover and emerging to do it all over again.
And, of course, further horrors await within the Shadows of Change.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not enough new units. Not even a Lore of Hag magic for Kislev.
are you honestly surprised.
This is a company that hasn't inovated since attila. And dumbed down the mechanics in its games whilest constantly upping the prices since RTW2
I mean, they innovated with how characters work in Warhammer/3 kingdoms.
But they've fumbled the ball a lot lately.
if by inovation you mean single entity units, which friendly reminder not even were a thing unless on a monster in WHFB, and by consequence with the lackluster engine that was developped for primarly gunpowder unit interaction, are still one of the "biggest innovations" i am sorry.
I don't care how good your Imperial Leutnant or warpriest is, getting charged even by a gobbo unit when he is alone should be a death sentence.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not enough new units. Not even a Lore of Hag magic for Kislev.
are you honestly surprised.
This is a company that hasn't inovated since attila. And dumbed down the mechanics in its games whilest constantly upping the prices since RTW2
I mean, they innovated with how characters work in Warhammer/3 kingdoms.
But they've fumbled the ball a lot lately.
if by inovation you mean single entity units, which friendly reminder not even were a thing unless on a monster in WHFB, and by consequence with the lackluster engine that was developped for primarly gunpowder unit interaction, are still one of the "biggest innovations" i am sorry.
I don't care how good your Imperial Leutnant or warpriest is, getting charged even by a gobbo unit when he is alone should be a death sentence.
~Thing is most heroes in the lore and tabletop are front-line not backline generals. They get stuck into the fight. In Total War this means being a front line troop and, yes, being able to survive ranks of enemy infantry.
Otherwise they'd be treated like generals in previous TW games - kept on the backlines and only brought out against easy opponents or for rear-attacks and such. Basically not your front line hero. It would also mean that mages would be vastly more popular because they can stay on the backline and deal damage at range.
So yeah I get what you mean, but at the same time I think its a better option over having fragile leaders who just spend most of the battle hiding at the rear or skirting the edge of the battlefield on a mount.
~Thing is most heroes in the lore and tabletop are front-line not backline generals. They get stuck into the fight. In Total War this means being a front line troop and, yes, being able to survive ranks of enemy infantry.
Which would've made an actual innovation possible, allowing you to ADD IN heros and lords into units of your choice. And further that is innaccurate aswell. There were not that many lords and heros that wanted to be front and center and CERTAINLY not allone so it stems from a massive misunderstanding of the lore and the TG:
Otherwise they'd be treated like generals in previous TW games - kept on the backlines and only brought out against easy opponents or for rear-attacks and such. Basically not your front line hero. It would also mean that mages would be vastly more popular because they can stay on the backline and deal damage at range.
considering how utterly busted generals were in either medieval, rtw and ETW that is simply not accurate.
So yeah I get what you mean, but at the same time I think its a better option over having fragile leaders who just spend most of the battle hiding at the rear or skirting the edge of the battlefield on a mount.
But you still have overly fragile leaders, which you can't even HIDE propperly in a unit, hence why certain upgrades simply don't get used.
It is. Its also coming out in the middle of a glut of games I'd rather be playing.
I'll wait for sales on at least the next two DLCs and maybe pick TW3 back up at the end of the current roadmap. There just isn't any reason to buy this now.
Plus, honestly its a bunch of no-name stuff plus the Changeling randomly as a lord and another skirmisher unit of questionable merit. I don't even know what to do with that.
Changling's campaign sounds fun. Basically a 1 army run around cause mischief approach! Almost like running a mercenary force in the game and I wonder if some of the structural elements might have been a potential "Dogs of War" set of mechanics that they messed around with before and never released or developed.
Meh, I see hours of entertainment with the 3 unique playstyle campaigns and more hours with my old faithful campaigns and how the new lords will effect them. $22.49 was an easy buy for me. YMMV
nels1031 wrote: Meh, I see hours of entertainment with the 3 unique playstyle campaigns and more hours with my old faithful campaigns and how the new lords will effect them. $22.49 was an easy buy for me.
You have low standards then.
The price they're asking for the content they're providing is absurd. Previous packs either had more (and still cost less), or just cost less. This price was expensive for Chaos Dwarfs, but it provided an entire new faction for the game. This is a couple of units and some HQs.
Compare this to the The Warden and The Paunch or The Prophet and The Warlock. Those were impactful DLCs and didn't cost anywhere near this much. Warden and The Paunch also revitalised the game. This DLC has vanished off the top sellers list within a week.
CA are shooting themselves in the foot. The other foot. They've already shot the first foot off completely with their antics since TWW3's disastrous launch.
nels1031 wrote: Meh, I see hours of entertainment with the 3 unique playstyle campaigns and more hours with my old faithful campaigns and how the new lords will effect them. $22.49 was an easy buy for me.
You have low standards then.
The price they're asking for the content they're providing is absurd. Previous packs either had more (and still cost less), or just cost less. This price was expensive for Chaos Dwarfs, but it provided an entire new faction for the game. This is a couple of units and some HQs.
Compare this to the The Warden and The Paunch or The Prophet and The Warlock. Those were impactful DLCs and didn't cost anywhere near this much. Warden and The Paunch also revitalised the game. This DLC has vanished off the top sellers list within a week.
CA are shooting themselves in the foot. The other foot. They've already shot the first foot off completely with their antics since TWW3's disastrous launch.
They also lost the historical playerbase, let's not beat around the bush.
The gameplay is stagnating, Price increases for features that were allready there. FFS, pharao promotes formations... FORMATIONS:
I'm normally very quick to chug down any content for TWW but this is too much for me. 3 Legendary Lords and some roster additions is something I'd pay maybe £10 for but this is priced like an expensive race pack.
I found it very interesting that Sega put out a statement on their Total War Blog in response to the backlash so things must be getting quite heated for them.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/dlc_statement/
Mozzamanx wrote: I'm normally very quick to chug down any content for TWW but this is too much for me. 3 Legendary Lords and some roster additions is something I'd pay maybe £10 for but this is priced like an expensive race pack.
I found it very interesting that Sega put out a statement on their Total War Blog in response to the backlash so things must be getting quite heated for them.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/dlc_statement/
Well they are at a stage in which what happened to war thunder will happen and get a review bombing.
Which, yes, honestly if you are that disconected with your custommer which spends money for your services attempt to treat that way is innevitably deserved.
nels1031 wrote: Meh, I see hours of entertainment with the 3 unique playstyle campaigns and more hours with my old faithful campaigns and how the new lords will effect them. $22.49 was an easy buy for me.
You have low standards then.
The price they're asking for the content they're providing is absurd. Previous packs either had more (and still cost less), or just cost less. This price was expensive for Chaos Dwarfs, but it provided an entire new faction for the game. This is a couple of units and some HQs.
Compare this to the The Warden and The Paunch or The Prophet and The Warlock. Those were impactful DLCs and didn't cost anywhere near this much. Warden and The Paunch also revitalised the game. This DLC has vanished off the top sellers list within a week.
CA are shooting themselves in the foot. The other foot. They've already shot the first foot off completely with their antics since TWW3's disastrous launch.
They also lost the historical playerbase, let's not beat around the bush.
The gameplay is stagnating, Price increases for features that were allready there. FFS, pharao promotes formations... FORMATIONS:
I don't think they've lost me; they just aren't giving me what I want. I haven't played a good historical TW title since Attila, and even then it was a departure from typical campaign game play as it was more of a civilization preservation/survival simulator so it definitely didn't wet everybody's whistle. I didn't care about 3k or these 'Saga' side projects and I sure as hell am not paying $60 for them. Where is Medieval 3? Where is Empire/Napoleon 2? I understand that there has been much development focus on Warhammer 2/3, and thats fine; they're great games but at some point we're going to have to return to the basics that made TW the franchise that it is today.
As far as the WHIII DLC pricing, I personally thought the Chorf DLC offered a satisfactory amount of content for the price; this one does not. Did the community even want another Tzeentch or Kislevite lord? Another Cathayan lord, sure. Its obvious that new content has to fall within Realm of Chaos narrative (even though nobody plays it) but what about the fixes for the existing content that the community has been shouting about for months?
When will Daniel not suck? When will the Empire's janky campaign mechanics be overhauled? When will ogre camps be mobile? etc etc.
They also lost the historical playerbase, let's not beat around the bush.
The gameplay is stagnating, Price increases for features that were allready there. FFS, pharao promotes formations... FORMATIONS:
I don't think they've lost me; they just aren't giving me what I want. I haven't played a good historical TW title since Attila, and even then it was a departure from typical campaign game play as it was more of a civilization preservation/survival simulator so it definitely didn't wet everybody's whistle. I didn't care about 3k or these 'Saga' side projects and I sure as hell am not paying $60 for them. Where is Medieval 3? Where is Empire/Napoleon 2? I understand that there has been much development focus on Warhammer 2/3, and thats fine; they're great games but at some point we're going to have to return to the basics that made TW the franchise that it is today.
As far as the WHIII DLC pricing, I personally thought the Chorf DLC offered a satisfactory amount of content for the price; this one does not. Did the community even want another Tzeentch or Kislevite lord? Another Cathayan lord, sure. Its obvious that new content has to fall within Realm of Chaos narrative (even though nobody plays it) but what about the fixes for the existing content that the community has been shouting about for months?
When will Daniel not suck? When will the Empire's janky campaign mechanics be overhauled? When will ogre camps be mobile? etc etc.
But that is what i mean. Pharao is and feels supposedly like and looks a damn lot like troy. But first off we had that game and secondly it's not what made total war great.
For these other games, formations and firing drills are key aspects. Things we had, which they are promoting now.
And it seeped intow WHTW, the empire in the lore has a chance against their enemies because they have drilled proffesional troops fighting in formations.... we don't have that, ontop of the janky mechanics.
I would have def bought Pharaoh if it had a Mythic option like Troy but just historical not bothered. Also Shadows of Change looks ok - expensive and no reason to buy at the moment when I have Balders Gate and others
nels1031 wrote: Meh, I see hours of entertainment with the 3 unique playstyle campaigns and more hours with my old faithful campaigns and how the new lords will effect them. $22.49 was an easy buy for me.
You have low standards then.
The price they're asking for the content they're providing is absurd. Previous packs either had more (and still cost less), or just cost less. This price was expensive for Chaos Dwarfs, but it provided an entire new faction for the game. This is a couple of units and some HQs.
Compare this to the The Warden and The Paunch or The Prophet and The Warlock. Those were impactful DLCs and didn't cost anywhere near this much. Warden and The Paunch also revitalised the game. This DLC has vanished off the top sellers list within a week.
CA are shooting themselves in the foot. The other foot. They've already shot the first foot off completely with their antics since TWW3's disastrous launch.
They also lost the historical playerbase, let's not beat around the bush.
The gameplay is stagnating, Price increases for features that were allready there. FFS, pharao promotes formations... FORMATIONS:
I don't think they've lost me; they just aren't giving me what I want. I haven't played a good historical TW title since Attila, and even then it was a departure from typical campaign game play as it was more of a civilization preservation/survival simulator so it definitely didn't wet everybody's whistle. I didn't care about 3k or these 'Saga' side projects and I sure as hell am not paying $60 for them. Where is Medieval 3? Where is Empire/Napoleon 2? I understand that there has been much development focus on Warhammer 2/3, and thats fine; they're great games but at some point we're going to have to return to the basics that made TW the franchise that it is today.
As far as the WHIII DLC pricing, I personally thought the Chorf DLC offered a satisfactory amount of content for the price; this one does not. Did the community even want another Tzeentch or Kislevite lord? Another Cathayan lord, sure. Its obvious that new content has to fall within Realm of Chaos narrative (even though nobody plays it) but what about the fixes for the existing content that the community has been shouting about for months?
When will Daniel not suck? When will the Empire's janky campaign mechanics be overhauled? When will ogre camps be mobile? etc etc.
I definitely wanted a new Kislev lord. Wasn't really fussed whether it was Ostankya or someone else from the lore I wasn't familiar with.
More than that, though, I wanted Kislev fleshed out in a way that would enable you to pick more thematic armies. From what I understand the Ice Court, Orthodoxy and Ungols don't get on, but it's difficult at present to make fully thematic armies.
Added to that, I consider two casters in the same army to be redundant (surely not alone in that) unless one of them offers something worthwhile outside their casting (which most don't), so Ostankya and any Ice Witches have hero-less armies, because they don't need their respective thematic hero and the patriarch is completely unthematic.
Some sort of Akshina hero and Kossar hero would go a long way imo.
We also saw with Eltharion that CA are capable of delivering a bunch of faction specific flavour units alongside new generic ones when the mood takes them. I can't think of race more deserving of that treatment than Kislev with their three distinct rival factions.
I haven't played a good historical TW title since Attila,
But the only big TW title since Attila was 3K. And, unfortunately, everyone - including CA , given how they abruptly dropped it - acknowledges that game was a mess.
Where is Empire/Napoleon 2?
Napoleon 2? Please, NO! Refighting a Napoleonic battle with less than a thousand men on each side is borderline blasphemous.
To be blunt, the game style just doesn't work well once the battles start to scale up beyond a certain point, and the Napoleonic era is well past that point. Little Round Top? Sure. Borodino? Absolutely not.
I understand that there has been much development focus on Warhammer 2/3, and thats fine; they're great games but at some point we're going to have to return to the basics that made TW the franchise that it is today.
And they will after WH3 plays out. They were always going to introduce the characters in this DLC. After all, there are five dragon sub-rulers in Cathay, and I'll be surprised if we don't get all five of them before the game is done. So Warhammer 3 releases will be in the pipeline for a while. But when they aren't, the Warhammer team will likely get a new project.
Did the community even want another Tzeentch or Kislevite lord?
Changling has been talked about for a while. Players knew that he was coming. They just didn't know when or where or how he would operate. As for Kislev, all of the factions in Warhammer 2 eventually had four lords (and some had even more). I would expect that all of the starting factions in Warhammer 3 will similarly end up with at least four before everything is wrapped up. That also means that the Chaos Dwarfs could get one more.
When will ogre camps be mobile? etc etc.
I would imagine that sooner or later we'll get a free ogre overhaul patch alongside an ogre DLC (along the lines of what happened with the Wood Elves and Beastmen) that adds at least a couple of new ogre lords.
Great war mod turns 4 infantry units into 1000 men.
That is a decent enough increase and already possible with NTW.
It's just CA that is lazy and doesn't care to innovate.
Because they are not under competitve pressure and get government tax money which should've gone to start ups in the UK:
Not Online!!! wrote: Great war mod turns 4 infantry units into 1000 men.
That is a decent enough increase and already possible with NTW.
It's just CA that is lazy and doesn't care to innovate.
Because they are not under competitve pressure and get government tax money which should've gone to start ups in the UK:
There are other issues, and it's not just laziness. If you're going to refight one of the battles of the Napoleonic era, then to properly refight with only twenty units, you're at the very least looking at a minimum unit size of a brigade, and possibly a division. Infantry brigades were more or less integrated infantry formations. You didn't have just a single type of infantry. You had multiple types, all working together under the direction of the brigade commander. Total War units are homogenous.
In short, there would need to be a lot of changes to the way that the game works, and "more infantry per formation" would only be the start.
Again, that is lazyness. They would've been capable of doing something like this, since we are talking about a mod as an exemple here in an nowadays consisered old game.
Not Online!!! wrote: Again, that is lazyness. They would've been capable of doing something like this, since we are talking about a mod as an exemple here in an nowadays consisered old game.
No, it's not laziness. It's getting down to micro-managing levels far beyond what any general of the time would have had to worry about. The Grand Armee at the start of the Russia campaign had 685,000 men. With an army that size, Napoleon didn't worry about giving orders to individual companies, which is the level that Total War operates at. He told his corps commanders what he needed them to do, and they drew up plans for their own formations based on the guidance Napoleon provided for them. He might have directed an individual division or brigade from time to time. But that was as far down the chain as he likely ever went, and even then only at particularly important moments. Armies that size need to be abstracted in order to maintain anything even remotely close to manageability. You can't just say, "Well, now the line troops are in units of 20,000 each," because that's not how the line troops were actually organized on the battlefield. Under Napoleon, a typical line battalion had seven (later four) companies/platoons of fusiliers, and one each of grenadiers and voltiguers (the latter were sometimes detached and organized into larger formations with others of their kind). A light infantry battalion had seven (later four) units of chaussers, and one each of carabinieres and voltiguers.
As a result, any maneuver element larger than a company of infantry is going to have a mix of troops, and not be the homogenous units that we see in Total War. Total War as it exists can properly depict a clash with multiple battalions on each side. But anything larger than that would require a complete redesign of the combat system, and likely involve abstracting parts of it to avoid killing the player with micro-management. And, as it turns out, the formation sizes in Total War pretty much perfectly support a clash between battalions, as the French companies of the era were typically between 100-200 men (the size varied) The problem, of course, is that clashes between a few battalions during this era were generally of very minor significance, outside of a tiny handful of instances where a battle hinged on a very small piece of terrain.
Or to put it another way, Total War is the perfect scale to depict the sorts of units it portrays on the battlefield. The problem is that those sorts of units on the battlefield were tiny parts of absolutely massive armies.
again , nothing beyond lazyness is stopping ca to implement a system as such.
It's neither the seize of the armies nor the scale.
It's merely that ca thinks it's not worth to implement auch a size-system e.g. innovate.
I don't know about you but operating 40 units at once on a large TA map is about as much as I feel comfortable doing and that's with the pause button being used.
Now don't get me wrong I utterly love massive combat, but the more units you add the more micro you ad and the more you end up in overview mode directing blocks of troops on a map.
When you then add on abilities, formations, specific charge strikes and all then it gets even more complicated to micro each unit.
Controlling bigger and bigger armies requires innovation in terms of how you manage them and some of that might be things like the units having single formations or auto-formation assignment. eg a cavalry block would auto assume wedge when given a charge but would use line when given a move attack order etc.
Another layer is that CA puts a lot into the 3D designs and fights and players want to see that. So you also need a control system that's going to have some downtime during the game to watch the fight.
I think the difference is that CA has a model which works. It's not the best and only way to produce such a game, but its a formula which works and heck the few times they've messed with it in a big way (eg sieges) it generally got them a lot of complaints. Everyone whined about TW Warhammer 1 sieges being smaller; and now they complain about 3 being bigger and with the defence buildings on top.
Heck I actually liked the Warhammer 1 and 2 because you could defend a whole wall with an army; 3 is feeling like other TW games where you've a MASSIVE wall and a tiny army to hold it. Which often results in holding just one segment of the wall and then pulling back to holding one corner against the enemy. Because if you spread out to hold every part you often end up far too thin on troops to make it effective.
Not Online!!! wrote: With AI, i think we may well are at a stage were we could draw up plans and comit to the command of a specific force whilest delegating.
Maybe maybe not - video game AI has honestly stagnated for a long time in my view. The only video game AI that I think has really pushed new ground is Starcraft 2. It's still about the only RTS AI I've seen that scouts (or simulates scouting at least); will hold back an attack to build a bigger one instead of attacking almost on a time-clock; sometimes holds back to use artillery at long range; retreats from an unwinnable battle from time to time.
A lot of the new AI developments are impressive but also basically rely on massive amounts of collaging with regard to images and text. It's very impressive, but at the same time its relying on insane quantities of media and fundamentally the AI still has no idea what its doing. Images can easily have too many fingers or strange detail areas; text can very readily be utterly made up near rubbish. Not to mention all that requires huge amounts of computing power, which is a big limit for video games that have to run on your home PC.
The other layer is that if the AI just copies human behaviour it can produce an experience people don't actually want from an AI. Consider how humans will often form alliances and break them purely for military focus. You'll ally to avoid a war; move your army into key positions and then break the alliance and declare war for an easy victory. Which means if the AI does that then that's what it would do - it would always be a super unreliable ally in games; which is often something many players very much dislike.
Human VS human playing is different compared to AI. Dropping into starcraft again the top teir players are all about micro-clicking and micro movements and such. Moving just after shooting to move out of range and then stop and cycle into a new firing sequence and such. Things that many who play against AI don't want to engage with.
The other thing is I'd argue that having AI control chunks of your army on its own is creating a very different game to what Total War games are. Not to mention increasing unit sizes and the number of units to account for such a system would very very quickly overpower most home PCs. TW games are already pretty demanding on home PCs, you go increasing the numbers many times over and either we have to wait for some big technological advances; or the graphics quality has got to lower.
That would be the case, if it weren't for the fact that one still could innovate on that front AND in regards to ressources get rid of things like Denuvo which are prove to be not only not effective but punish players that bought the game legitimatly with bad performance
AI is a buzzword right now, but is largely still crap. Chatbots can simulate a conversation to a certain extent, but only insofar as they're able to look at a table of "normal" responses to what was just said. They have zero comprehension of what they're saying. They merely know that the response they've picked to your latest comment is a popular one.
There's a huge difference between "basic competent AI" and "able to smartly and efficiently micro-manage every last company that fought at Austerlitz".
I also have to ask, what would really be the point? The general's eye view wasn't at that tiny level. It was at the higher levels, the ones that used to be represented by square cardboard counters on hexmaps made by SPI and Avalon Hill. If you zoom in close enough that you can see the individual men fighting with each other, then you're ignoring the rest of the battlefield. That might be useful for portraying something like Hougoumont (though even that clash had more troops than are represented in a Total War army). But it's not so useful for fighting an entire battle.
GrosseSax wrote: As far as the WHIII DLC pricing, I personally thought the Chorf DLC offered a satisfactory amount of content for the price; this one does not. Did the community even want another Tzeentch or Kislevite lord? Another Cathayan lord, sure. Its obvious that new content has to fall within Realm of Chaos narrative (even though nobody plays it) but what about the fixes for the existing content that the community has been shouting about for months?
Tzeentch, Kislev and Cathay are core factions of Total War Warhammer III. It wouldn't make sense to release big expansions for factions that people who own this game might not have access to. Moreover, the other factions from TWW1 and TWW2 have all had, with the exception of Norsca, additions to their rosters since they were first introduced, some multiple times over.
Tzeentch can't be left with a single LL. Cathay and Kislev also need expansion and reworks. This DLC doesn't go far enough on that latter aspect, but they definitely needed new content and new LLs. I doubt we'll ever see Kislev or Tzeentch with 6-7 LLs like some of the TWWI/II races (there just aren't enough Tzeentch DoC characters to get there), but leaving them at their base-game rosters and moving back to Empire, High Elves and Orcs wouldn't be right either.
As for fixes, that's a separate issue and not anything to do with the DLC. They don't need to make a Lizardmen DLC to fix Nakai's broken campaign - they just need to get around to fixing it. The fact that it's taken them this long to solve something that modders fixed in an hour shows how little effort CA is putting into this game.
They are more concerned about the Hyenas shooter, they can pump full off microtransactions etc. . Which funnily enough has also led to a huge employee turnover aswell.
NVM that Hyenas looks utter dogshit from a shooter persepctive and the trailer shows that the game isn't working at ALL in it's core, the shooting mechanics.
Booted up an Ice Queen campaign with the new DLC for gaks and giggles while Starfield was unpacking for early access.
Their technology tree is still a scattershot collection of unrelated random stuff.
A few new settlements in their territories and they get provincial capitals again, which is great as it opens up more buildings for an effective economy/war machine . The fanatic guy(Konstantin?) got rolled over pretty quick, with Azazel and Throt on my doorstep about 25 turns in. Nice to have Hag Witches with different magic schools supplementing the Kislev roster. New crossbow unit is an upgrade to the early archers that Kislev gets. Recruited a few Thing in the Woods units to see how they do, but wanted to see other stuff before I spent anymore time with the Ice Queen.
Moved on to a Beastmen campaign just to see if Tzaangors, Incarnate of Beasts and the Cockatrice were added to their roster. All but the Cockatrice, but I bet there is already a mod to add that. No Mutalith either, but I didn't expect that. I think they get a unique building or 2 now as well, but I didn't get deep into it.
Going to jump into a Changeling or the Mother Ostankya campaign this weekend if Starfield doesn't grab all of my attention. On the other hand, kind of want to play an Empire campaign now that The Changeling is in your neighborhood, presenting new challenges.
Moreover, the other factions from TWW1 and TWW2 have all had, with the exception of Norsca, additions to their rosters since they were first introduced, some multiple times over.
All of the TWW1 factions have received additions except for Norsca. But I don't think any of the TWW2 DLC factions have received any. It's only been the core factions in TWW2. Of course, all of the DLC factions in the second game got four LLs, which left me rather surprised that none of the factions in the third game have started out with four so far.
The dragon that Creative Assembly have been stupidly chasing (ie. wasting millions on) is finally dead.
That's right, CA's idiotic attempt to get into the hero shooter market is cancelled.
Sega wrote:SEGA SAMMY HOLDINGS INC. (the Company) hereby notifies that it has resolved to implement structural reforms in the Consumer area, mainly at its European bases at the Board of Directors meeting held on September 28, 2023 and in accordance with this decision, the Company expects to record a loss for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024.
...
1) Cancelation of titles under development In response to the lower profitability of the European region, we have reviewed the title portfolio of each development base in Europe and the resulting action will be to cancel "HYENAS" and some unannounced titles under development. Accordingly, we will implement a write-down of work-in-progress for titles under development.
Good or bad, this will be interesting for TWW going forward.
Also impending layoffs according to some insiders. Either Sega is going to refocus CA on Total War products and this will be a good thing, or they're going to end up shitcanning any further TWW3 expansions, etc. and focus on new TW titles (as expansions and DLC generally have a low ROI and are often not profitable).
Not only that but the 2nd game is still one of their biggest concurrent player numbers to date. Even if games like 3 Kingdoms outsold on launch, the Warhammer games have proven to have such a huge amount of long lasting power and that's a huge thing in the video game market. Esp if you consider expansions and post game support potential for more profit.
Honestly its such a huge money spinner I'd be shocked if they don't want to do Age of Sigmar with GW at some stage in the future. It would make a huge amount of sense.
I think the hope is that they realise that the review bomb along with issues with quality control in Warhammer 3 are a symptom of them trying to push into too many markets and markets they aren't used too; causing them to lose resources in their core product area. Hopefully they refocus and restructure and come out the stronger in their core market area. I'd hate to see the whole TW system suffer and even more the Warhammer side.
H.B.M.C. wrote: TWW has been a huge money spinner for CA. Abandoning it would be very stupid.
But not out of the question. Their last public statement about SoC included a veiled threat of 'buy it or we stop supporting this game'
From what CA people had said, the bug fixing 'team' for TW3 was, for an extended period... a single person.
Not exactly a whelming commitment to the franchise.
Voss wrote: But not out of the question. Their last public statement about SoC included a veiled threat of 'buy it or we stop supporting this game'
A statement that was equally as stupid as chasing the hero/looter-shooter dragon.
Voss wrote: From what CA people had said, the bug fixing 'team' for TW3 was, for an extended period... a single person. Not exactly a whelming commitment to the franchise.
Yes, because they were throwing all their resources at a game so destined to fail, it was killed by the publisher before it could be born.
Voss wrote: But not out of the question. Their last public statement about SoC included a veiled threat of 'buy it or we stop supporting this game'
A statement that was equally as stupid as chasing the hero/looter-shooter dragon.
Voss wrote: From what CA people had said, the bug fixing 'team' for TW3 was, for an extended period... a single person.
Not exactly a whelming commitment to the franchise.
Yes, because they were throwing all their resources at a game so destined to fail, it was killed by the publisher before it could be born.
Not sure what your point is here. They DID both things- its reflective of their plans and their management team.
That Sega felt forced to step in and strangle Hyenas doesn't mean that all is magically well. 'Hyenas and some unannounced titles' could very well include TW3 DLC after thrones of decay (or after the unnamed patch 6 DLC).
Overread wrote: Not only that but the 2nd game is still one of their biggest concurrent player numbers to date. Even if games like 3 Kingdoms outsold on launch, the Warhammer games have proven to have such a huge amount of long lasting power and that's a huge thing in the video game market. Esp if you consider expansions and post game support potential for more profit.
Honestly its such a huge money spinner I'd be shocked if they don't want to do Age of Sigmar with GW at some stage in the future. It would make a huge amount of sense.
I think the hope is that they realise that the review bomb along with issues with quality control in Warhammer 3 are a symptom of them trying to push into too many markets and markets they aren't used too; causing them to lose resources in their core product area. Hopefully they refocus and restructure and come out the stronger in their core market area. I'd hate to see the whole TW system suffer and even more the Warhammer side.
Lots of people playing a game that released 5 years ago or whatever doesn't make CA/Sega any money today.
The expansions also don't generate a lot of revenue/sales. It is known and has been known for a long time. The percentage of people who purchase DLC is always a fraction of the people who purchase the base game.
Total War Age of Sigmar won't happen, at least anytime soon. Frontier Developments has exclusive rights to AAA Age of Sigmar strategy games on PC for the next ~10 years.
Do we know that Frontier Developments has exclusive rights? If memory serves GW has never signed exclusive rights like that in recent times. Granted they aren't a tiny developer (though they aren't one I'd consider a forefront of RTS design); so they could have paid a fortune for that.
Same time it would seem short sighted of GW unless they know that CA were going to be at least 10 years away from developing/starting another big GW project or one that would require access to a new fantasy IP.
As for lots of people playing an old game not making any money that might be true. However it does show that that game is popular and if you can recapture that format and formula then you've got a winner. Paradox seems to make a good enough profit for expansions to run several games for years on expansions alone before reaching for sequels.
Agreed. My speculation would be cancelling more planned Bronze Age titles (the reception for the upcoming Pharaoh has been *very* underwhelming), and /or the T3K title that CA said they would be working on when they cancelled all development on the one that they had already released.
I'm still somewhat baffled that the CA team won't make a Medieval 3 considering that every single time they make a new game one of the biggest complaints is that its not Medieval 3.
It just seems like silly easy money/marketing for them to go for that title. Esp as it requires the exact same amount of work as any other historical period main project game that they already make.
Overread wrote: I'm still somewhat baffled that the CA team won't make a Medieval 3 considering that every single time they make a new game one of the biggest complaints is that its not Medieval 3.
It just seems like silly easy money/marketing for them to go for that title. Esp as it requires the exact same amount of work as any other historical period main project game that they already make.
They may well retreat to Medieval now. They've announced heavy 'consolidation' and 'redundancy consultation' in their UK offices.
Overread wrote: Do we know that Frontier Developments has exclusive rights? If memory serves GW has never signed exclusive rights like that in recent times. Granted they aren't a tiny developer (though they aren't one I'd consider a forefront of RTS design); so they could have paid a fortune for that.
Same time it would seem short sighted of GW unless they know that CA were going to be at least 10 years away from developing/starting another big GW project or one that would require access to a new fantasy IP.
As for lots of people playing an old game not making any money that might be true. However it does show that that game is popular and if you can recapture that format and formula then you've got a winner. Paradox seems to make a good enough profit for expansions to run several games for years on expansions alone before reaching for sequels.
The original press release indicated they had exclusive rights, yeah. Likewise Creative Assembly had 10 year exclusivity for AAA WHFBRTS titles on PC and console.
Paradoxes expansions are generally more cost efficient and not a good basis for comparison. Paradoxes games are not graphics intensive and are more often than not relatively straightforward modifications to code and database additions (given that the games are predominantly text based). A very small team can crank them out in a relatively short timeframe (which is why there are so many of them) and quickly recover the cost of development. Total War DLCs often require additional modeling, texturing, rigging, animation, on top of UI and UX development and modification, sometimes fairly significant code structure changes, on top of all the writing and coding involved. They require larger teams and take longer to develop, and consequently cost more to produce and need to sell more to make it worthwhile.
Rumor-monger Valrak posted a video today in which he stated that he has heard rumors of a 40K game by Creative Assembly. Note that he was NOT wearing his foil hat when he said this (the foil hat is for the "THIS IS DEFINITELY COMING!" announcements he makes, such as when he predicted the Epic preview, and that the game would be released by the end of the year), and he repeatedly made comments suggesting that viewers should be very cautious in accepting this rumor.
He tied the very little info that he's heard about the game to rumors that he heard a week ago that CA was about to announce some very bad news - which it did today, of course. And that's why he felt confident enough to post a video about it. Unfortunately -
1.) He's not familiar with Total War: Warhammer, or Fantasy in general, so he's not really familiar with how those games play.
2.) The only detail that he really had about the possible game is that it's definitely 40K, and not HH.
3.) Again, he repeatedly stressed that viewers should be very cautious about this particular rumor, and as I mentioned above he was not wearing his foil hat.
My own personal comment -
Even if Valrak is accurate here (and I've noted his own comments about the strength of this rumor above), it's entirely possible that the game was one of the titles that is being cancelled. I would think that a 40K game would be one that they'd be more inclined to release due to the success of TW:WH. But if the gameplay (which Valrak stressed multiple times he knows nothing about) were to diverge too much from the standard Total War formula, Sega might shoot it down as too risky.
Anyway, I thought I'd mention this particular item.
For those curious about Valrak's accuracy, I think there's actually a thread somewhere around here that tracks his success rate in making predictions (with and without the foil hat).
Thing is besides being somewhat more shooty, 40K would certainly work with TW style games. The only thing they might introduce would be the concept of trenching, which was also used in ancient warfare too.
I could certainly see them doing 40K and doing well at it with their engine. It would be a pretty big shift, but Fantasy was already a huge shift and it did amazingly well and they could certainly do a sci-fi game without issue after having seen what they can do in Warhammer
I think after the review bombing and other issues earlier in the year, they are trying to really push attention on W3 and get the community back on board. Considering that W2 is still one of their biggest ever games in popularity it makes sense to try and carry that over into W3 now that they've hit a bit of a roadblock and lost a lot of money on an aborted FPS game.
It might also be that with the aborted game they've got developers freed up who can work on W3 much more so than in the past.
Got to say I like the idea of gate being tougher, they were feeling really quick to bash through (esp for any army that had monsters or big things to just throw at the gate so you didn't even have to wait a turn to get a ram)
it does nothing, because it doesn't solve the unterlying issues of TW.
It also still is no propper appology of CA for what they did on the steam forums.
Honestly from what I could see the steam forums were the result of a lack of management followed by a heavy handed missmanagement that resulted in an utter mess on both sides and now its just a hotbed of hostility.
Overread wrote: Honestly from what I could see the steam forums were the result of a lack of management followed by a heavy handed missmanagement that resulted in an utter mess on both sides and now its just a hotbed of hostility.
no. This was squarly CA once again.
No, it's not a privilege to air problems and discuss the leaks of your company. Not as a paying custommer.
Overread wrote: Honestly from what I could see the steam forums were the result of a lack of management followed by a heavy handed missmanagement that resulted in an utter mess on both sides and now its just a hotbed of hostility.
no. This was squarly CA once again.
No, it's not a privilege to air problems and discuss the leaks of your company. Not as a paying custommer.
Naw I also saw a lot of mindless hostility and aggression thrown around. There is a line between airing criticisms and going hostile and the steam forums went hostile. I'm by no means saying that CA didn't do wrong things - as I said lack of management and then missmanagement of the situation fuelled the fire. Their approach was wrong, but that doesn't mean that there weren't also bad agents on the community side also fuelling the fire (some of which have been around for a long while fuelling the fire ever since CA did some things like putting women commanders into Rome 2 - or was it Atilla? And not releasing a Medieval 3 which seems to be a huge huge thing for some).
Again there were wrongs on both sides, but CA certainly dropped the ball in how to manage the situation.
Overread wrote: Honestly from what I could see the steam forums were the result of a lack of management followed by a heavy handed missmanagement that resulted in an utter mess on both sides and now its just a hotbed of hostility.
no. This was squarly CA once again.
No, it's not a privilege to air problems and discuss the leaks of your company. Not as a paying custommer.
Naw I also saw a lot of mindless hostility and aggression thrown around. There is a line between airing criticisms and going hostile and the steam forums went hostile. I'm by no means saying that CA didn't do wrong things - as I said lack of management and then missmanagement of the situation fuelled the fire. Their approach was wrong, but that doesn't mean that there weren't also bad agents on the community side also fuelling the fire (some of which have been around for a long while fuelling the fire ever since CA did some things like putting women commanders into Rome 2 - or was it Atilla? And not releasing a Medieval 3 which seems to be a huge huge thing for some).
Again there were wrongs on both sides, but CA certainly dropped the ball in how to manage the situation.
the whole of RTW 2 was mismanaged tho. Attila got dropped at the first sign of a hat and one of the most outspoken critics got DMCA0d attempted, which youtube of all things nipped in the bud.
Sorry, at this stage CA has everything done to turn the community hostile and got the correct ammount of flak for it.
FWIW i also think any other company would've fired long since their non-pr team, and their middle and upper management which rather blew over 100 mio pounds in a extraction shooter,
Ahh I only really haunted the steam forums during the Warhammer games; mostly just bought into the other games but didn't really worry about the forum side of things.
I don't follow the forums, but it got to the point where it was spilling over on to YT where there's a few TW streamers that I'm subscribed to. Even some relatively pro-CA YTers were begging CA to stop making statements instead of digging themselves a bigger hole.
There was the stuff with Hyenas, TWW3 DLC prices going up, CA making a statement of "buy it or we'll stop supporting it", Pharaoh being a saga game but being priced as a full game. Then there was stuff coming out from people who claimed to work there ranging from bullying to poor management of assets and blaming employees for not being able to deal with it all the way to the claims of covering up SA. Then it sounded like they were laying off a bunch of people separate to the issues with Hyenas.
Then on top of that there was the stuff with the forums and Steam community pages, with many innocent and constructive posts deleted and absolutely tone deaf responses from CA. I think one said it was a privilege to be able to discuss the games at all. There was the DMCA take downs of videos on YT that were being critical of them. Maybe other things I've missed.
It definitely seemed like CA nuked themselves and it would have been obvious to Blind Freddy that those actions were going to get backlash from the community.
Overread wrote:Ahh I only really haunted the steam forums during the Warhammer games; mostly just bought into the other games but didn't really worry about the forum side of things.
The problem is, CA has a massive issue with it's community on a fundamental level. Well mostly the regard of their community. Because they have them hostage due to the monopolistic position in their niche with high initial investion protecting them from competition and a community they could for the longest time sell basically what older TW's once got as free mods. They also manipulated and lowered the modding tool quality since ETW especially on the campaign map side of things to then sell DLC that was in quality lower than the average TW mod seen sofar. NVM clear P2W unit packs aswell. To this day the memory leak issue plaguing the engine with the implementation of it since ETW hasn't been resolved either.
AllSeeingSkink wrote:I don't follow the forums, but it got to the point where it was spilling over on to YT where there's a few TW streamers that I'm subscribed to. Even some relatively pro-CA YTers were begging CA to stop making statements instead of digging themselves a bigger hole.
There was the stuff with Hyenas, TWW3 DLC prices going up, CA making a statement of "buy it or we'll stop supporting it", Pharaoh being a saga game but being priced as a full game. Then there was stuff coming out from people who claimed to work there ranging from bullying to poor management of assets and blaming employees for not being able to deal with it all the way to the claims of covering up SA. Then it sounded like they were laying off a bunch of people separate to the issues with Hyenas.
Then on top of that there was the stuff with the forums and Steam community pages, with many innocent and constructive posts deleted and absolutely tone deaf responses from CA. I think one said it was a privilege to be able to discuss the games at all. There was the DMCA take downs of videos on YT that were being critical of them. Maybe other things I've missed.
It definitely seemed like CA nuked themselves and it would have been obvious to Blind Freddy that those actions were going to get backlash from the community.
Another issue to swallow is, how many of those Youtubers have been bought out to shill for CA. They are part of the issue, because they couldn't realistically criticise the hand that feeds them, and perpetuated a cicle of stagnation. In general such sponsorships should not be allowed but sadly they are nowadays the norm for game reviewers and ytbers in specific niches. Hence why if you want actual quality reviews the ammount of companies blacklisting the reviewer is a mark of quality and the ammount of prerelease access a mark of a reviewers corruption.
Not Online!!! wrote: Another issue to swallow is, how many of those Youtubers have been bought out to shill for CA. They are part of the issue, because they couldn't realistically criticise the hand that feeds them, and perpetuated a cicle of stagnation. In general such sponsorships should not be allowed but sadly they are nowadays the norm for game reviewers and ytbers in specific niches. Hence why if you want actual quality reviews the ammount of companies blacklisting the reviewer is a mark of quality and the ammount of prerelease access a mark of a reviewers corruption.
You could definitely sense that some YTers were either cautious in what they were saying or avoiding the discussion entirely.
That's one of the nice things about LegendsofTotalWar... on the one hand I think he can be a bit of a dick and if I were CA I wouldn't want to deal with him, but at least he says what he thinks which I can respect.
Not Online!!! wrote: Another issue to swallow is, how many of those Youtubers have been bought out to shill for CA. They are part of the issue, because they couldn't realistically criticise the hand that feeds them, and perpetuated a cicle of stagnation. In general such sponsorships should not be allowed but sadly they are nowadays the norm for game reviewers and ytbers in specific niches. Hence why if you want actual quality reviews the ammount of companies blacklisting the reviewer is a mark of quality and the ammount of prerelease access a mark of a reviewers corruption.
You could definitely sense that some YTers were either cautious in what they were saying or avoiding the discussion entirely.
Well, if they criticse or don't jump on the next TW title then they lost early access which is relevant for the first comer advantage on youtube.
That's one of the nice things about LegendsofTotalWar... on the one hand I think he can be a bit of a dick and if I were CA I wouldn't want to deal with him, but at least he says what he thinks which I can respect.
Legends now been kicked out twice. But then again CA was always really pushy and sensitive when criticised.
I think he's been kicked out more than twice, but he's the most popular TW streamer so it's kind of hard to ignore him. His videos often get more views than the ones on the official TW channel.
Voss wrote: He gets an upsurge in views when he's controversial and 'blacklisted'
Its a good relationship for both parties.
I dunno how good of a relationship it is for CA when he's telling people not to buy their games I guess any publicity is good publicity perhaps? Just don't tell that to Pharaoh.
Voss wrote: He gets an upsurge in views when he's controversial and 'blacklisted'
Its a good relationship for both parties.
I dunno how good of a relationship it is for CA when he's telling people not to buy their games I guess any publicity is good publicity perhaps? Just don't tell that to Pharaoh.
CA is the only company right now in it's niche beyond the western front game that released recently. However CA was never interested in diplomatic feedback in it's entire history since ETW. The only reason why attila is better than RTW 2 is because they created an utter shitstorm with RTW2. The only reason why WHTW 2 was a better kept and produced product was, because WHTW 1 was lackluster.
If beeing a dick in your criticism is the only argument against your criticism especially when you represent a company then the problem is the culture at the company.
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think he's been kicked out more than twice, but he's the most popular TW streamer so it's kind of hard to ignore him. His videos often get more views than the ones on the official TW channel.
Well then there's the fact that the mainline TW channel is also known for lying and beeing a corpo channel.
Voss wrote: He gets an upsurge in views when he's controversial and 'blacklisted'
Its a good relationship for both parties.
I dunno how good of a relationship it is for CA when he's telling people not to buy their games I guess any publicity is good publicity perhaps? Just don't tell that to Pharaoh.
Legend was a dick in years gone by. His confrontational attitude was less of a selling point and more something you put up with to appreciate his gamesmanship. Fortunately he's matured and is a much better presenter for it. As a part of that his explanations for his reasonings have become much more balanced and less EdgeLordofTotalWar. I'm pretty sure for the last few releases he has been making it clear he is not saying for people not to buy CA stuff, but he has been providing reasoning for why he thinks something is bad and says it is up to the gamer to decide whether they think it's value. So he kind of is saying don't buy it while at the same time making it clear he is not saying don't buy it. He's getting positive feedback from his historic gameplay but the fact is his mass appeal came on the back of Warhammer . I know I've stopped watching him since I stopped caring about WHTW3.
Voss wrote: He gets an upsurge in views when he's controversial and 'blacklisted'
Its a good relationship for both parties.
I dunno how good of a relationship it is for CA when he's telling people not to buy their games I guess any publicity is good publicity perhaps? Just don't tell that to Pharaoh.
Legend was a dick in years gone by. His confrontational attitude was less of a selling point and more something you put up with to appreciate his gamesmanship. Fortunately he's matured and is a much better presenter for it. As a part of that his explanations for his reasonings have become much more balanced and less EdgeLordofTotalWar. I'm pretty sure for the last few releases he has been making it clear he is not saying for people not to buy CA stuff, but he has been providing reasoning for why he thinks something is bad and says it is up to the gamer to decide whether they think it's value. So he kind of is saying don't buy it while at the same time making it clear he is not saying don't buy it. He's getting positive feedback from his historic gameplay but the fact is his mass appeal came on the back of Warhammer . I know I've stopped watching him since I stopped caring about WHTW3.
Agreed - These days he is relatively mellow and had to mature or damage his own mental health more.... I watched more when he was playing Valheim wih his wife etc and it was quite relaxing/amusing
Same with his game play - he will explain why and what he does but usually makes it clear that its not how you have to play.....
Voss wrote: He gets an upsurge in views when he's controversial and 'blacklisted'
Its a good relationship for both parties.
I dunno how good of a relationship it is for CA when he's telling people not to buy their games I guess any publicity is good publicity perhaps? Just don't tell that to Pharaoh.
Legend was a dick in years gone by. His confrontational attitude was less of a selling point and more something you put up with to appreciate his gamesmanship. Fortunately he's matured and is a much better presenter for it. As a part of that his explanations for his reasonings have become much more balanced and less EdgeLordofTotalWar. I'm pretty sure for the last few releases he has been making it clear he is not saying for people not to buy CA stuff, but he has been providing reasoning for why he thinks something is bad and says it is up to the gamer to decide whether they think it's value. So he kind of is saying don't buy it while at the same time making it clear he is not saying don't buy it. He's getting positive feedback from his historic gameplay but the fact is his mass appeal came on the back of Warhammer . I know I've stopped watching him since I stopped caring about WHTW3.
Agreed - These days he is relatively mellow and had to mature or damage his own mental health more.... I watched more when he was playing Valheim wih his wife etc and it was quite relaxing/amusing
Same with his game play - he will explain why and what he does but usually makes it clear that its not how you have to play.....
I watched some of his older videos and I didn't really mind him. He strikes me as someone who doesn't naturally have a filter on what he says, some people might find it abrasive but I don't mind it. If someone doesn't have a filter and says something, you can guarantee a number of other people are thinking it and just not saying it
Creative Assembly wrote:A MESSAGE FROM TOTAL WAR’S LEADERSHIP TEAM
Dear Total War fans,
I’m Roger Collum, Vice President at Creative Assembly, and writing on behalf of our Total War leadership team.
It has been a difficult few months, and we recognize that we have made mistakes when it comes to our relationship with you all. It’s been a constant conversation internally on how we can get back to solid ground. What’s clear is that it won’t be easy and that it will take time and effort.
We see the confusion, the frustration, and the distrust of us across the community and honestly, it breaks our hearts. We make games to bring you joy, to inspire a love of history, of fantasy, and strategy games. Total War is our everything, we care about it as deeply as you. Recently, it’s clear that we have failed to demonstrate that in our actions.
We are sorry.
We cannot fix our issues overnight, but we will work towards a more transparent, and consistent relationship with you all.
Honestly the fact they are processing a partial refund and adding content to both games for free speaks a lot of volumes beyond their comments on passion.
Those are some bold steps to make for a firm who could have left Pharaoh out to tender and kept making modest updates to Warhammer 3 and then released another DLC to try and make up for things.
Of course proof will be in what they do, but one can have a glimmer of hope. Plus I've seen them rolling out a LOT more updates for Warhammer 3 over the last month or two.
Also it might sound small, but saying "sorry" as a company CEO is pretty big too. Many companies (esp larger ones) will bend over backwards; twist words any which way to never quite say those words (or never say them at all)
Actions speak louder than words, and now there are 4 actions:
1. The increased schedule with patches.
2. The free update to the last DLC.
3. The free updates to Pharaoh.
4. The next DLC (Thrones of Decay).
It's nice that the first three are either done or being done, but that last one is the big one, because if they turn around and just do Shadows of Change 2, (this time with less value!) then we're right back to square one.
It is encouraging that they're doing refunds for Pharaoh and ditching the stupid "deluxe" editions. It won't save that game - it truly was DOA - but it is a nice gesture. Friend of mine did point out, that CA were very positive about 3K seconds before tossing it off a cliff, so really who knows when it comes to Pharaoh. *shrugs*
Not just positive about 3K. They were actively talking about the content of the next DLC, which was supposed to focus on the northern tribes.
And then...
However, I've heard that each DLC was breaking things in the earlier DLCs, and it sounded like no one knew how to fix the cascading series of issues. It sounded as if the game was becoming an increasingly buggy mess of spaghetti, and getting worse with each DLC. But the DLCs had to keep coming simply because of the amount of stuff that was missing from the core game. After all, the last DLC was when they finally filled out the region that would become the capitol of one of the three kingdoms, Shu. That was kind of an important region...
And the funny thing?
3K is still the second most popular Total War game, according to Steam Charts, with a 30 day average of just under 4600 players. Rome II is in third, with just over 4400. Medieval 2 and Shogun 2 take fourth and fifth respectively.
You don't need me to tell you which game is at the top of the list It has over three times the number for 3K.
Pharoah's down at #12, with less than 450 players.
I thought I'd give TWW3 a proper go because I've never spent much time on it. Decided to play the White Dwarf campaign as I thought that looked fun, a different location etc etc. What a ballache. I completely understand the Chaos Wastes attrition mechanics and why they are there but it just makes everything such a dull slog.
Also : "monkeying about" is mentioned. Monkey King future release confirmed?
Hi everyone,
I’m Richard Aldridge, Game Director for Total War: WARHAMMER. Today I want to share some news with you on the new content that will be arriving soon for Shadows of Change with Patch 4.2 – free for existing owners, and bolstering the DLC for anyone picking it up post Patch 4.2.
I’ll be covering what you can expect going forward from the Total War: WARHAMMER series, taking a peek behind the curtain as to how we go about planning, creating and making our DLCs, and having a close look at the new additions Grand Cathay will be receiving as a part of Patch 4.2.
REFLECTING ON SHADOWS OF CHANGE
I’ll cut straight to it, we didn’t give you enough new characters and units to play with at the original release of Shadows of Change.
We believe we can put this right for you, having listened to your feedback these past months to provide you with better and more varied options for your armies. We know that you, our community, are as passionate about the game as we are, and we’re pleased to say that many of your suggestions are being enacted upon. Not all ideas and requests are possible, though. The Era of Karl Franz is, as you’ve come to expect, a rich and exciting setting for Total War, and we work closely with The Warhammer Studio to ensure that the content for this era of Warhammer is as faithfully represented in our game as possible.
All of the forces featured within the Shadows of Change DLC can look forward to a sizable collection of reinforcements, but we won’t be adding Hag Mothers as Generic Lords, as Mother Ostankya is the only Hag Mother of Kislev. Similarly, the relationship between Gospodars and Ungols is taking a back seat as we look less at the tensions of historic Kislevite culture, and more at what defines Kislev as a unified military force in the Era of Karl Franz.
Similarly, we won’t be adding beaks to Tzaangors, as while this avian characteristic occurs in other Warhammer settings, these elite Gors in the Old World represent those Beastmen who have drawn the eye of the Changer of Ways, rather than a totally separate offshoot breed. But as ever, we aim to ensure that whatever we do add to Total War: WARHAMMER III is as authentic an experience of the world of Warhammer as possible.
WHAT TO EXPECT MOVING FORWARD
Looking to the future, the team and I love the Warhammer universe and want to make as much content for it as possible. Whether that be to add further exciting characters like the Golden Knight, spectacular units and creatures (Yes, I’m looking at you mighty “Hotpot”) or other unexplored lore. We still plan to make many more DLCs for Total War: WARHAMMER III, with some of them like Thrones of Decay following the same premise and composition as Shadows of Change where we will add to and develop three existing races from across the Warhammer world. Accompanied by our patches and updates, this will give us the opportunity to go back to some of your most beloved races and give them some attention.
Below I have laid out what you can expect to see for Shadows of Change and Thrones of Decay in terms of the content and features for these products moving forward.
DLC Content – Shadows of Change & Thrones of Decay
3 Legendary Lords – Each playable in the Realms of Chaos and Immortal Empires campaigns
Unique gameplay mechanics for each Legendary Lord
3 Legendary Heroes – One per race
3 Lords – One per race
3 Heroes – One per race
5 Units (Infantry/Cavalry/Monsters etc.) per race
3 Regiments of Renown per race
1 FREELC Character (Aekold Helbrass for Shadows of Change and a Legendary Lord for Thrones of Decay)
Potential Further Content
New Spell Lore*
New Mounts*
New Additional FREELC*
*Subject to the IP, theming of the DLC, and where applicable
Thank you again for your invaluable feedback since the release of Shadows of Change, and in particular the thoughts on improving the rosters and having parity across the races with the content we are adding as a part of them.
As mentioned above; each race will now have a Legendary Lord, Legendary Hero, Lord, Hero, 5 units and 3 Regiments of Renown. This, we hope, will allow you to lead thematic armies that are better connected to the Legendary Lords in the DLC, add both lower tier troops and big centrepiece monsters and start to fill some of the gaps and needs of the races in the game that you have asked for.
Where possible, with “Further Content” we will also be adding thematic lores of magic, mounts for new and existing characters to make use of, and making some much-requested FREELC where it makes sense (Cough, cough, Katarin’s Sled).
I hope that everything I’ve mentioned above looks much more in line with your own expectations for the DLC, as we move to significantly bridge the gap to our past products like Chaos Dwarfs in what we will offer moving forwards, starting with Shadows of Change.
Now onto the exciting stuff you’ve all come to see.
GRAND CATHAY ADDITIONS
To set the scene, when we went back to look at what we could add to enrich the offering of Grand Cathay in Shadows of Change we focused heavily on the theme that surrounds the Jade Dragon, his Celestial Court. Having his eyes and ears everywhere, having the ability to quickly react and protect his Empire, to be the emperor in all intents and purposes.
This meant plenty of conversations with Games Workshop in looking to find characters and units that best complimented this approach and made sense from a lore perspective. Looking into what we hadn’t included previously in Total War: WARHAMMER III or Shadows of Change quickly helped us fill in some of the gaps in Grand Cathay’s roster, such as with the Gate Master and Celestial Lion. The Lion in particular was something that almost made the cut for the original release of Shadows of Change, so I am super excited to see it now in the roster as both a monstrous unit and a mount option.
But it also got us to look a little further afield too, as you will see with our first-ever Legendary Hero for Grand Cathay – Saytang the Watcher.
SAYTANG THE WATCHER, SENTINEL OF THE HEAVENS (LEGENDARY HERO)
So let me introduce Grand Cathay’s first colossal legendary hero to you. We wanted to add Saytang to move away from what is currently known about Grand Cathay and showcase some of the other inhabitants of this mighty Empire.
Saytang represents an ever-watching protective figure, not dissimilar to Yuan-Bo but as you will see is a fair bit larger. Saytang gives us the opportunity to expand on Grand Cathay’s use of magical constructs, something which is core to this great nation in how it protects itself. Along with giving them devastating long ranged artillery-like potential. Saytang also lends themselves nicely to the connection the Jade Dragon has to the winds of Azyr (Heavens) and the more magical elements of Grand Cathay.
“Known as the guardian of the sky, the heavenly bowman, or commonly to the people of the southern provinces simply the watcher, Saytang is the great sentinel that stands atop the Mountains of Heaven. Towering over other sentinels, Saytang is an imposing sight with its outstretched wings and great stone feathered helm. Those who have witnessed Saytang in battle claim no armour or barrier can turn aside the arrows it fires from its great wind bow, the shafts piercing the ranks of the enemies and even the iron hides of fell beasts. And though Saytang cannot fly in the true sense, its power allows it to leap great distances, even jumping from mountain peak to mountain peak in the defence of the empire.”
—New lore as told by Games Workshop
Above you can see the first step we take when designing and adding content to our DLC’s. Starting with a thumbnail image, it gives us a quick and flexible method to work with Games Workshop in first realising the character or unit. Its job is to get across the scale, flavour, functionality and work required to bring this model to life, but be easily adaptable to suit the needs of the IP and the game before we move onto the next stage of the creation process – the concept art.
When entering the concept stage of the creation process, we are looking to up the visual quality of the model from the thumbnail, adding details, looking at materials and textures to use. This will act as a comprehensive blueprint, to guide our 3D character artists in the creation of the final model for you to play with in game. We also use this as a sounding board for how our animations and designs will work, tweaking the size and scale of body parts to work with the games engine, creating a proxy model to test things out in maximising the fun of each character or creature.
So now you know a little of the process behind how we created our characters, let’s discuss what Saytang is good at doing in game.
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
Saytang the Watcher is a giant-sized legendary hero, which (disregarding mounted characters) is a rare sight in Total War: WARHAMMER III. Much like the Bone Giant of the Tomb Kings, Saytang uses a giant magical bow to fire artillery-grade projectiles into the enemy lines. Saytang is also relatively strong in close combat, with good defensive stats and the ability to buff other nearby Constructs. Saytang doesn’t fly being a construct, even with those mighty wings, but can jump large distances to close the gap on the enemy.
Construct – With the introduction of Saytang into the game, we have re-evaluated the role of Constructs on the Cathay roster. The Terracotta Sentinel and both Guardian Lions are now considered Constructs (with the same rules as the Constructs found on the Tomb Kings roster). Saytang has an ability that synergises with this type of unit.
Tough & Heavy – Saytang has a high amount of armour, which enables it to shrug off most attacks from non-armour piercing sources. As a heavier character, Saytang will be able to send smaller entities flying with ease.
Giant Bow – Armed with the Wind Bow, Saytang can deliver long range attacks and singular targeted shots with devastating precision.
GATE MASTER OF THE CELESTIAL CITIES (HERO)
You may have seen the art of this character since the release of Total War: WARHAMMER III, a character which didn’t quite make the final cut. But he is now here to stand tall and add a bit of melee strength to your Grand Cathay frontline.
“Jade Warriors are the profession soldiers of Grand Cathay, and the Gate Master of the Celestial Cities are their leaders. To earn the title of Gate Master a Jade Warrior must have served in the defence of their city, and many are veterans of the empire’s many wars. Like their soldiers, a Gate Master is trained in defensive warfare and how best to defend their city, and as such know how to read the lay of the land before a battle. This can prove useful in enacting the will of their Lord Magistrate, who trusts their Gate Masters above all other officers in their armies.”
Gameplay Overview
The Gate Master is a defensive line-holding hero with hybrid weaponry. Using his abilities, he can buff the defences of nearby troops whilst shooting enemies with his crossbow from behind the main battle line. A fun fact is that the Gate Master is the first hero with a conventional crossbow that we have put into the game (Dark Elf Repeaters not withstanding), which will serve the armies of Cathay well in many different scenarios.
Hybrid Combatant – The Gate Master uses a combination of Sword, Shield and Crossbow, making him a very adaptable unit in all forms of combat.
Defensive – The Gate Master excels at defensive warfare, with several abilities that buff friendly battle lines.
Mounted – When mounted on a warhorse, the Gate Master can quickly move between the battle lines to where he is needed most.
Mounts
Warhorse
GREAT MOON BIRD (MONSTER & MONSTROUS MOUNT)
Continuing the theme of the Celestial Court and to give Grand Cathay some added flying power, we have added the Great Moon Bird as both a monstrous single entity flying unit and as a mount option for a variety of characters to field.
“Favoured of the Empress, the Great Moon Birds are found in the highest peaks of the Mountains of Heaven. They are said to make their nests in the craters of Mannslieb, the silver moon of the Warhammer World, and only fly down to earth when called by either the Empress or the most powerful Astromancers. Fearsome to behold in battle, the Moon Bird are often wreathed in silvery flames – or moon fire – which burns the enemies of the empire who come into contact with it. Powerful lords, especially wizards of the Celestial Court, might even be granted a Moon Bird as a mount, though this is usually only for a short time before the creature once more returns to the heavens.”
Gameplay Overview
Similar to the High Elf Phoenixes, the Great Moon Bird is a magical flying monster with flaming attacks and a powerful AoE vortex ability. Grand , so new strategies will become viable in battle; whether it is providing air-to-air defence for Sky Junks or striking deep into the enemy lines. The Great Moon Bird is also a mount for the Astromancer, which offers them a whole new level of battlefield mobility.
Airborne – The Great Moon Bird can fly and traverse otherwise impassable terrain.
Moon Fire – By flapping its wings, The Great Moon Bird can produce a vortex of Moon Fire, which damages all enemies caught within its radius.
Flaming & Magical – Much like the Arcane Phoenix of the High Elves, the Great Moon Bird can deal both Flaming and Magical Attacks
Mount Option for: Astromancer
CELESTIAL LION (MONSTER & MONSTROUS MOUNT)
Probably my favourite model of the new additions to Grand Cathay, the Celestial Lion’s beauty and strength is second to none. Acting as both a single entity monstrous flying unit and a mount option for a variety of characters from Grand Cathay, the Celestial Lion will strike terror into those that stand within its way.
“Winged lions exist in the east, believed to have descended from natural beasts warped during the coming of Chaos to the world. Unlike the fell Manticores of the west, these celestial beasts have been purified by the power of the Dragon Emperor and live within the sacred hunting grounds of the Forests of the Moon. Favoured sorcerers or warriors may be gifted such a creature by the Dragons, riding it into battle and striking fear into the foes of the empire.”
Gameplay Overview
The Celestial Lion is another flying single entity monster for the armies of Cathay to utilise. Similar to a Griffon or Manticore, it is able to provide air support on a budget compared to higher tier units like the Great Moon Bird. The Celestial General can also make use of this beast as a mount.
Fast – The Celestial Lion has exceptional ground mobility, making it perfect for harassing tactics or flanking.
Airborne – Flying high above the battlefield, the Celestial Lion can traverse otherwise impassable terrain.
Fearsome – By utilising its Fearsome Roar ability and the Terror attribute, the Celestial Lion can strike fear into the hearts of nearby enemies.
Mount Option for: Celestial General
⬥ ⬥ ⬥
Before I end today, I wanted to cover an omission that you may have been hoping for in Grand Cathay’s roster update; an Elite Core Infantry unit. There is a very good reason for this and trust me we aren’t monkeying about. The first as we explained is on keeping the focus on the Celestial Court and the Jade Dragon. The second being that the Celestial Courts don’t have a unit of this type to add, that said we’ve only just scratched the surface of the possible content we can create for Grand Cathay and as I mentioned earlier, we have plans to support the game with lots of new content for the foreseeable future.
So when can you expect Patch 4.2 and all of its additions to SoC?
Well, the team are still working flat out to have everything ready for release, but we want to be upfront with you that there is a chance that our intended date could shift slightly. This is the true nature of video game development, in spotting those last-minute issues or adding that final polish which can lead to release dates changing.
It’s important to all of us here that we get Patch 4.2 right for you, so we won’t rush it out before it’s ready. As is stands today we’re on track to release in the middle of the month, but like I said, this could shift closer to the end of Feb depending on how the remaining work goes. I’m optimistic, and the team are super energised in getting everything done and ready to put into your hands.
Next week I’ll be back with a deep dive on the additional units coming to Tzeentch, along with confirmation of 4.2’s release date.
Thanks for taking the time to read this – chat to you all next week!
—Rich (Game Director) & the Total War: WARHAMMER Team
I do hope they stagger along long enough to update Ogres (regardless of whatever random lord they stuff in). I'm more interested in them finishing the basic ogre roster.
Thrones of Decay still seems like a real make or break moment for the game. If it doesn't do well (or more likely, isn't done well), they may well retire the game like they did Three Kingdoms.
At least they put out a minimum content list (though its also a maximum content list in practice), so its clear what to expect.
Not sure if anyone here took the big survey, but they ran a huge questionnaire about what properties/types of settings people were interested in. They (CA/Sega) framed it in terms of known IPs- LotR, 40k, Marvel (for some reason), Dune, a couple others I'm forgetting, and.... Clash of the Titans. Which I'm still puzzled by. That's just... pretty standard Greek mythology, which they sort of already did, and didn't do well with.
Voss wrote: I do hope they stagger along long enough to update Ogres (regardless of whatever random lord they stuff in). I'm more interested in them finishing the basic ogre roster.
Thrones of Decay still seems like a real make or break moment for the game. If it doesn't do well (or more likely, isn't done well), they may well retire the game like they did Three Kingdoms.
At least they put out a minimum content list (though its also a maximum content list in practice), so its clear what to expect.
Not sure if anyone here took the big survey, but they ran a huge questionnaire about what properties/types of settings people were interested in. They (CA/Sega) framed it in terms of known IPs- LotR, 40k, Marvel (for some reason), Dune, a couple others I'm forgetting, and.... Clash of the Titans. Which I'm still puzzled by. That's just... pretty standard Greek mythology, which they sort of already did, and didn't do well with.
I think they were more looking at the general media themes that inspired people and if they were old or modern (a sense of the generation of fans without asking how old you are). But also the kind of fantasy media people were engaging with. From what I gathered they did ok with Troy but it was never designed as a full fantasy game the same way as Old World was - heck weren't most of the mythological creatures added in a separate expansion?
Troy was odd - it did not go full fantasy or historical but tried to do half way between the two - I only bought it once they hadd full mythology as an option.
If they give up on TW: Warhammer - they have nothing else to make money - so that is likely be the end of CA - however I agree Thrones is make or break
Yes they'd have to actually invest to make it; but considering how much the historical fans scream for that game I'm still surprised they've never done it.
Warhammer will come to an end so chances are they are looking for the next thing; esp as Hyena was canned and a huge amount of lost investment on its development (though one hopes some of the tools and such developed for it can be used elsewhere).
Honestly when I play old Medieval 2 I think the only thing I really feel missing from the modern games is the simpler map view. Warhammer 1 really started the ball rolling for CA with VERY pretty maps, but they got so chock full of pretty things that you lose the ability to read information from them.
3 Kingdoms I feel was about the most confusing to read, but even the Warhammer ones can be tricky. Are those griffins flying around a mountain a resource type? A local modifier or just some pretties.
Whilst it might not have been as fancy (or graphically resource hungry) the old Medieval 2 interface and map at least let you read off very clearly what a resource was; the territory boundaries and everything.
Heck I'm convinced that sometime the whole "army appeared from nowhere" isn't even fog of war but just a really busy map display that people don't spot the army icon appearing on.
Overread wrote: Honestly when I play old Medieval 2 I think the only thing I really feel missing from the modern games is the simpler map view. Warhammer 1 really started the ball rolling for CA with VERY pretty maps, but they got so chock full of pretty things that you lose the ability to read information from them.
3 Kingdoms I feel was about the most confusing to read, but even the Warhammer ones can be tricky. Are those griffins flying around a mountain a resource type? A local modifier or just some pretties.
Whilst it might not have been as fancy (or graphically resource hungry) the old Medieval 2 interface and map at least let you read off very clearly what a resource was; the territory boundaries and everything.
Heck I'm convinced that sometime the whole "army appeared from nowhere" isn't even fog of war but just a really busy map display that people don't spot the army icon appearing on.
That is demonstrably untrue on the mechanical side of things, especially between pre Etw and after WH.
That the map isn't more cluttered/detailed than it was in the past?
Or that some people saying "army appeared from nowhere" isn't the result of them simply not spotting it in all the detail on the map.
I'm not saying armies don't ambush or appear out of the fog of war and such - those things 100% do happen. As do things like Seraphon and Ork summoned armies. I was simply noting that some of the "army appeared from nowhere" could be the result of people glancing at the very busy design of the map and not seeing an army standing there.
So far it looks very much a step in the right direction for the Shadow of Change update, but maybe not enough to make it feel like its worth £20 to me.
Still I can see now it can be picked up for around £16 on sale and I think I'd be more willing to buy for that amount.
Hopefully with the update they wont turn around and reverse the amount the DLC is going on sale for a few months.
Might wait and see what the rest of the update contains before I decide to buy though.
I guess Thrones of Decay will be the make or break point for continued support.
I hope it'll be a success as after all these years and culmination of the trilogy, it'd be shame for it to just fizzle out.
That the map isn't more cluttered/detailed than it was in the past?
Or that some people saying "army appeared from nowhere" isn't the result of them simply not spotting it in all the detail on the map.
I'm not saying armies don't ambush or appear out of the fog of war and such - those things 100% do happen. As do things like Seraphon and Ork summoned armies. I was simply noting that some of the "army appeared from nowhere" could be the result of people glancing at the very busy design of the map and not seeing an army standing there.
The first sentence is wrong. It is demonstrably untrue from a tactical mechanical point of view due to the limitations of the engines post medieval.
Overread wrote: Honestly when I play old Medieval 2 I think the only thing I really feel missing from the modern games is the simpler map view. Warhammer 1 really started the ball rolling for CA with VERY pretty maps, but they got so chock full of pretty things that you lose the ability to read information from them.
This one to be precisce. Formations and unit entities being due to mechanical limitations of the kill moves and statification far less prevalent or borderline actually missing as an tactical mechanic, with formation buttons adding in singular stats instead of actually making the formation work.
F.e. square formations work in etw and ntw even when the square is actually broken, due to the stat boost conveyed to the line infantry. Even worse, RTW 2 testudos.
And I don't have space to have 3Kingdoms installed right now.
But yeah whilst the amount of information might be similar, the rendering style and display is vastly different. The old style the only high detail points are specific elements of clear information about a province and the game to the player. Warhammer has other things going on.
There's that shrine thing in the bottom right which isn't anything; there's a mine in the right side which belongs to a dwarf owned settlement which is apparently an iron mine; but the Vampire settlement also has a gold mine somewhere.
There's also the boarders - the original ones are very clear very simple lines on the map; Warhammer they are wriggling and writhing all over the place.
Again I'm not arguing that there's more actual gameplay information going on; but that the presentation and style of map drawing and how they've displayed it has changed from one that was insanely super clear to one that isn't quite as clear at a quick glance. There's a lot more contextual details going on; a lot more busy details and a lot more details that don't actually mean anything gameplay wise happening.
by all means the new maps are very pretty and they look neat - but the information is no way near as clearly displayed to the player as in Medieval 2
Indeed. I kinda wish they had a toggle option to have a cleaner world map so you could actually see stuff.
And just stop putting a bunch of pointless terrain that only blocks movement everywhere, so you are funneled into only using certain paths. Both on the campaign map and in actual battles. I should be able to maneuver units inside settlements and on the battlefields freely even at maximum unit sizes.
Whats really dumb is that would be easier than paying people to design random garbage to throw down all over the maps everywhere that just looks pretty but is in the way.
Don't get me wrong, I do love the detail they've put into the map - its a beauty and I love some of the small details that they add to bring the world more alive. I just wish they were more present as things within regions in the game as information and parts of the game itself.
That said I do agree also that a cleaner overview map option would be nice to have. Something that's purely there for "this is GAME information" and cuts out the pretties a bit so that you can focus on the key facts.
For maps I can agree, there are fewer open area maps in this edition. Then again I think that having more constrained map design does lead to some more creative approaches and more encouragement to break up armies and try different approaches instead of "its all in one spot".
Heck I know a lot of people weren't happy with the "tiny" cities compared to previous titles; but part of me was happy to see it. A good many old TW games had city siege maps that were VAST and yet your army was hardly taking up a corner of the map. Which kind of resulted in you attacking one or two tiny spots and all the action were there and the rest of the map was basically empty barring perhaps a group of cavalry going on a VERY long run around the winding city to attack from the rear somewhere.
I feel like the multi-stage large maps of Warhammer 3 are perhaps a sweet spot where there's enough variety and layers and map to fight over without it being so huge that its overwhelming. The "side game" of resources and towers I'm 50-50 on. It's neither a deal breaker for me nor is it really a huge feature I feel really engaged wtih. I think in part because it feels like something more suited to a Warcraft level of game and control rathre than a TW where you are already pulled in a lot of attention directions at once anyway
Before I get into the details on the new additions for Tzeentch, I wanted to talk to you about the release date and where we are as of today. The team are still working flat out to finish things up and we found a few things at the start of this week that we need to address before handing things over to you.
I’m really pleased to say that the team is making great progress through these last few changes and we are still on track to release to you later this month, but the release won’t be this week (which we had originally been trying really hard to hit). I’ll be back later this week with more information on the extra characters and units coming to Kislev, as well as to update you further on the release plans.
Before we dive straight into things, if you haven’t read the last blog entry which focused on Grand Cathay, you can do so here.
Right, onto the fun stuff!
TZEENTCH ADDITIONS
Listening to your feedback on characters and units which you have shared with us since the release of Shadows of Change, we have focused on improving the melee offering at Tzeentch’s disposal for their Lords and Heroes. Tzeentch armies have always heavily leaned on magic but we understand having those hard-hitting frontline generals and heroes are important in balancing out your armies. This is exactly what we have added to the roster for you in the form of the Chaos Lord of Tzeentch and the Exalted Hero of Tzeentch. We have also taken the opportunity to add a further two new units into the DLC for Tzeentch, which I’ll cover below.
To broaden the connection between Tzeentch and the Beastmen which we first established with the introduction of the Tzaangors in the DLC’s original release, we are now adding Centigors of Tzeentch. Having additional Chaos aligned Beastmen in the Tzeentch roster is something that we always wanted in order to best represent the various forms of Chaos, and the Centigors of Tzeentch will pack quite the bestial punch on the field of battle for you.
We also heard your feedback on the appearance of our Tzaangors in game and your expectations of them having beaks. To be clear, in the Warhammer Fantasy Battles universe, Tzaangors don’t have beaks. Instead, they much more closely resemble the appearance of a classic Gor from the Beastmen roster, which have a brutal and bestial look with teeth and jaw rather than an avian (bird)-like appearance. Rather than being a separate, offshoot species of Beastmen, they are instead Gor who have sworn allegiance to the Lord of Change.
Our second addition comes in the form of the Daemonic flying Changebringers, a classic Tzeentch unit from the Storm of Chaos book released way back in 2004. These Flamers ride Discs of Tzeentch into battle, making them a fast and fearsome opponent. As with all the additions, I’ll cover them in greater detail below.
So, let’s get to it!
CHAOS LORD OF TZEENTCH (LORD)
Having created a variety of Marked characters and units with the release of Champions of Chaos for the Warriors of Chaos to field, we really wanted to come back and flesh out some of the missing cast, giving you the options to create the ultimate Chaos army that you have always wanted.
So just like with those mentioned units, the Chaos Lord of Tzeentch will be available for both Tzeentch and the Warriors of Chaos races.
“Those few who succeed upon the twisting path of Tzeentch become the most otherworldly of all Chaos Champions. They are blessed with both exceptional warrior skills and the arcane powers of the Lord of Magic. This deadly combination makes them cunning leaders and lethal warriors who command their armies with uncanny presence.
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
The Chaos Lord of Tzeentch is built for combat. Carrying his trusty halberd it makes him adept at fighting monsters and larger creatures. He can certainly go toe to toe with some of the biggest foes the Warhammer world has to offer. He’s also great at holding his ground through the use of his Expert Charge Defence and Charge Reflection passive abilities.
Marked by Tzeentch – A master of the mind, the Chaos Lord of Tzeentch benefits from the Mark of Tzeentch, which grants him magical attacks and a barrier by default.
The True Power – Armed with a heavy suit of Chaos armour, a towering shield and a magical Halberd, the Chaos Lord of Tzeentch is a defensive juggernaut who excels in fighting large targets, especially when mounted on a Disc of Tzeentch (essentially becoming a character-level Doom Knight).
Disciple of Tzeentch – As a powerful tyrant and fearsome leader, the Chaos Lord of Tzeentch inspires his followers and emboldens their resolve. By using the ”Change or Die!” ability (which is a Tzeentchian twist on “Stand or Die!”), he can improve the Leadership and Damage Resistance of nearby friendly troops. He also makes use of the “Paragon of Change” ability, which recharges the barrier of nearby allies.
Mounts
Chaos Steed, Chaos Chariot & Disc of Tzeentch
Available to:
Tzeentch & Warriors of Chaos
EXALTED HERO OF TZEENTCH (HERO)
When we started the process of finding a suitable model to best represent this character, we knew we wanted to do something a little different and special. So, we went back, really far back into the Warhammer archives looking at the various depictions Tzeentch’s champions have taken the form of.
Needing to be a melee focused character one model really stood out, which I’m lucky to say I even have in my collection (and really need to paint); the Tzeentch Champion with two swords from the early 90’s.
“The Exalted Heroes of Tzeentch are ostensibly the most bizarre and macabre of the Lord of Change’s mortal servants. Their armour is typically Tzeentchian, inlaid with bands of gold and bluish-silver and assembled from strangely curving components, but it is the God of Magic’s generous gift of two extra heads that sets His Exalted Heroes apart from others on the battlefield. It is a change that irrevocably affects the mind, splitting a Hero’s mortal personality into three conniving extremes. With eyes sealed shut, the central head jeers the whims of the two other personalities dwelling in the leering cyclopean heads on either side. Yet with a singular will, the creature swings its weapon with Tzeentch-imbued strength.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
The Exalted Hero is a melee specialist, using his magical attacks and high weapon strength to get into the thick of the action. He is armed with a mighty halberd to be in keeping with the rest of our Tzeentch roster, rather the dual swords that this character takes inspiration from in its miniature form. He has solid melee defence that will sustain him long into the fight. Just like his Lord counterpart, he is adept at taking a charge with Expert Charge Defence and Charge Reflection passive abilities.
Marked of Tzeentch – The Exalted Hero of Tzeentch benefits from the mark of Tzeentch, which grants him magical attacks and a barrier by default.
Anti-Large Specialist – The Exalted Hero of Tzeentch carries a Magical Halberd, which allows him to reliably duel monstrous infantry.
Opportunist – Always scheming and seeking a path to greater glory, the Exalted Hero of Tzeentch takes command if the lord is slain, bolstering the leadership of the army as he assumes command.
Mounts
Chaos Steed, Chaos Chariot & Disc of Tzeentch
Available to:
Tzeentch & Warriors of Chaos
CENTIGORS OF TZEENTCH (UNIT)
As mentioned earlier, our thoughts here were to expand on the connection Chaos has across its many followers, and in this case, Tzeentch. Using the Chaos Marks system, we opted for the Centigors to provide bestial cavalry to add versatility to what is normally quite a missile and magic heavy focused army.
Like with the Tzaangors, these creatures have been developed based on the setting of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. So, no beaks or other things that you might associate with Tzeentch in Age of Sigmar, in keeping our content true to the source material. Just like the Tzaangors this unit will be available to both Tzeentch and Beastmen races to play with and the team and I have plans for how we can improve the offering of further Chaos Marked Beastmen for you in the future.
“Beastmen are creatures of pure Chaos, and so tend to exalt all four Ruinous Powers equally. However, sometimes a she-gor spawns a whelp that is clearly a chosen one of the Changer of Ways, its fur patterned with the Mark of Tzeentch, or its horns curling to form His unholy symbol. These Centigors are as bitter and spiteful as their non-Tzeentchian kin, with a stronger resentment for their own clumsy, awkward nature, and harbouring a deep jealousy of creatures whose minds and bodies are better matched. This feeds their arcane rage and makes them much more dangerous – having been touched by Tzeentch, this is likely no coincidence.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
A fast and hard-hitting unit, the Centigors of Tzeentch carry great weapons offering armour piercing power to take on tougher opponents. Carrying the Mark of Tzeentch grants them magical attacks and barrier.
Unholy Combination – Combining the Mark of Tzeentch with the Centigor statline makes for a fast, vanguard-deploying, barrier-attuned bestial cavalry unit that benefits from standard Beastmen abilities such as Rowdy and Primal Fury.
Great Weapons – The Centigors of Tzeentch wield armour piercing Great Axes, which have been magically imbued, making this an effective unit when up against Daemons and Ethereal units.
Arcane Charge – Initially introduced with the Tzaangors, this ability has also been adopted by the Centigors, offering more synergy with Tzeentchian spellcasters.
Available to:
Tzeentch & Beastmen
CHANGEBRINGERS (UNIT)
Last but by no means least are the Changebringers, a unit of Flamers which fly across the battlefield on Discs of Tzeentch. These horrors will help Tzeentch quickly reach their enemies in battle and keep the pressure on from above.
“Flamers are capable of a fair turn of speed, expelling gaseous ichor through the fungoid ‘skirt’ at their base to bound and leap across the ground with considerable mischievous gusto. A Flamer uses its blazing limbs to hurl bolts of magical flame at the foe. This is not fire in its truest sense, but a roiling cloud of Chaos energy. It does not burn, but warps reality. A Flamer’s victim might briefly feel invigorated, before collapsing into a writhing puddle of flesh.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
A step up from your normal Flamers of Tzeentch, Changebringers have the manoeuvrability, speed and agility to be able to fly across the battlefield, whilst ignoring the terrain and any penalties they may cause. But, if need be, their increased charge bonus will help them with making the first move.
Shock and Awe – Changebringers are one of the ultimate expression of the chaotic nature of Tzeentch. Flamers of Tzeentch (which are comparatively slow and lumbering units) take to the skies, benefitting from greatly increased manoeuvrability.
Death from Above – Changebringers can rain down Tzeentchian fire from above, making them one of the best flying missile units in the game.
Flamers of Tzeentch – Being Flamers of Tzeentch at their core, the Changebringers benefit from the usual hallmarks of this unit. Armour Piercing, Flaming Attacks and Warpflame are all present; however, due their newfound mobility, Changebringers don’t have quite as much of a barrier when compared to their ground-based kin.
Available to:
Tzeentch & Daemons of Chaos
⬥ ⬥ ⬥
Thanks for reading, and I’ll be back later this week with my final blog on the great nation of Kislev and the new characters and units they’ll be receiving as part of Patch 4.2.
—Rich Aldridge (Game Director) & the Total War: WARHAMMER Team
Automatically Appended Next Post: Love the look of the Tzeentch Hero.
Weird line to take on the Tzaangors and how they look, but I guess that's a trademark/licensing issue, since the ill-fated AoSRTS game has "proper" Tzaangors.
Centigors of Tzeentch could be interesting, but the roster seems to already have that niche covered.
Changebringers sound devastating, but they are pretty short ranged from what I remember.
Weird line to take on the Tzaangors and how they look, but I guess that's a trademark/licensing issue, since the ill-fated AoSRTS game has "proper" Tzaangors.
I doubt it has anything to do with Realms of Ruin. They're pushing real hard that this is GW giving them a hard NO and there's nothing they can do about it.
Given that its entirely in keeping with the 'no mixing product lines' between 40k and HH & AoS and TOW, that seems pretty believable.
There's just enough between the lines that they're not officially blaming GW, but I'm curious what the relationship is like. Given everything going with CA and Sega, someone might have decided once TW3 goes out of active service (however many DLCs that is), the relationship is done.
Considering that TW Warhamer is one of the big reasons GW can do Old World I'd be shocked if GW wanted to end the relationship. It's brought both GW and CA buckets of money and its GW's current best video game title.
Don't forget Dawn of War (the once poster child of 40K video games) is now a title marred in the mud with Dawn of War 3; meanwhile Space Marine 2 still isn't out yet.
Most of their other games are smaller developer firms producing low to decent quality games. The Age of Sigmar RTS game Realms of Ruin meanwhile is sitting there looking very pretty and running well but just being unfun to play and unsatisfying as an RTS (and I'd argue a huge part of that is them trying to build an RTS game for consoles which honestly I've never really seen that work for any kind of traditional RTS game)
Gw are drawing some big lines between their AoS and Old World designs and I think part of that is trying to ensure that they have distinct markets for them and that the two don't bleed together which would likely make it a nightmare for GW's forecasting of sales and product direction and so forth. Honestly its a bold move of theirs way beyond what they did with Horus Heresy; to have two games of the same genre and design ethos and factions side by side at once.
So yes they likely are wanting both games to evolve designs down different pathways and that includes imposing those policies on their 3rd party creators.
It might even work out well for CA in the end IF they continue working with GW. It will mean CA can step into creating an Age of Sigmar game with distinct designs and so forth.
Hi all, I’m back with the final update on the unit additions we’re bringing to Shadows of Change.
Hopefully you’re all up to date with the changes that are coming to Grand Cathay and Tzeentch as a part of Patch 4.2. But if you missed anything you can check out those updates below:
Before I get into all the details about what to expect with Kislev, I’m excited to confirm that Patch 4.2 will launch on Thursday, February 22.
As I alluded to in our last blog on Tzeentch, the team have been working hard to get this exciting new content into your hands and we can’t wait to hear what you think. Next week, we’re thrilled to say that Black Library author David Guymer is back with a brand new short story on the Witch of Kislev, and on Wednesday, we’ll be publishing the full Patch Notes for Patch 4.2 so that you can get caught up on what to expect when this all new content drops for Shadows of Change.
Let’s get to it!
KISLEV 8TH EDITION LORE & IP
If like me you’ve grown up with Warhammer and been a long-time fan, seeing Kislev given new characters and units at the launch of Total War: WARHAMMER III was a special moment. Likewise with the additions of Mother Ostankya, Hag Witches and other units in Shadows of Change.
This new, uncharted ground for the faction, was one that we worked closely with Games Workshop on, from before the release of Total War: WARHAMMER III and through the development of Shadows of Change. Games Workshop took us through their various designs, concepts, and deep dives into the new and updated lore that they had created for Kislev.
Like with many things in life, this meant some ‘out with the old and in with the new’. Mother Ostankya is a good example of this. She is Kislev’s only true Hag Mother in the new and current lore that our game is based on. She is very much her own unique character, with her own motives, desires, magical items and history. This is why you see her charge into battle atop her sled, pulled by the Things in the Woods with her cauldron, rather than more direct references to real world mythology. This new take, like with all the other additions to Kislev, is what makes them exciting and brings them in line with the other races in 8th Edition and Games Workshop lore.
The same is true of other parts of past Kislev lore. The distinct Ungol and Gospodar split within Kislev is something that is no longer at the forefront of Kislevite lore, instead taking a back seat to allow us to tell new stories with the faction. There are still nods to this – the horse archers already in the game, for example – but there won’t be more implemented into our game now or moving forwards.
You can think of Kislev in a similar way to the books and resources that we use from Games Workshop in making our game. We focus on the newest army books (8th Edition or as close to as possible) and miniatures, rather than adding things from the early editions, RPG books, old miniatures or peripheral novels and supplements that no longer embody the core nature of the character, race, environment, etc. By doing this, we ensure that we’re showing you the most authentic version of the Warhammer world possible!
I hope this explains much more of our thinking, how we go about things and how we look to best represent the most current version of the lore in our game. So now let’s get to it and run you through the changes that are coming to Kislev as part of Patch 4.2.
KISLEV ADDITIONS
I think I need to first address the elephant in the room when it comes to Kislev and the content that was offered at the launch of Shadows of Change and what wasn’t, the lack of a new spell lore for Mother Ostankya and the omission of Hag Mothers as a generic lord type.
I’ll start with the spell lore that we’re adding to Patch 4.2 for both Mother Ostankya and her Hag Witches to make full use of. “The Lore of the Hag” will be comprised of six new spells and a lore attribute focused on both hexing enemy units and overcasting to bless your own. I’ll go into more detail on what each spell does in the section below.
Coming back to the Hag Mothers now, as previously mentioned there is only one “Hag Mother” in the current lore of Kislev as told by Games Workshop and this is Mother Ostankya herself. This lore is very new as is Mother Ostankya herself in the IP, so I want to inform you as best as I can to share with you who she is, how she aids Kislev and why there are no other Hag Mothers in the lore or our game.
Mother Ostankya is a character of great importance to many Kislevites acting as a guardian of the land in times of great peril, but also to be wary of and not cross to avoid her wrath. It is her magic that is wielded in battle both by herself and her Hag Witches and her unstoppable force that brings both man and nature to fight for her cause and that of Kislev’s. With the exception of Mother Ostankya herself, the few other Hags of Kislev are not generals – they have no interest in leading armies themselves! Instead, they help enact Mother Ostankya’s will through aiding Kislev’s other leaders and their forces.
With this new lore in mind and staying as close and true to it, we needed to look for other Generic Lord option for Kislev to field instead of Hag Mothers and I think we came up with a good option thanks to Games Workshop’s help and guidance; the Druzhina.
More on him later. Let’s first take a look at the Lore of the Hag as I promised you and show you what fun new tricks Mother Ostankya has at her disposal.
LORE OF THE HAG (SPELL LORE)
Available to both Mother Ostankya and Hag Witches, “The Lore of the Hag” features six new spells and a new lore attribute. The spell lore is focused primarily on disrupting and hexing enemy units, but with a twist, as when overcasting these spells, they become augments that you can use on your own forces! This compliments Mother Ostankya’s campaign mechanics of curses and blessings to provide more ways to play with this unique character in battle.
“The Hag Witches draw from the power from the woodlands, fens and oblasts of Kislev, holding those who stray into them terminally accountable. Incantations and curses take shape to summon forth the spirit-magic of the land, blessing the Kislevites who fight for it and cursing those who may see it harmed.”
LORE ATTRIBUTE
FATE OF INTERLOPERS – AREA OF HEXES
“Those trespassing upon this ground soon find their fate is completely sealed; their end decided.”
Fate of Interlopers activates every time a lore of the Hag spell is cast. It provides a debuff to enemy units whilst buffing your own troops simultaneously.
Curse – Minor decrease of Leadership
Blessing – Increases Spell Resistance
SPELLS
THE FORBIDDEN FENS
“The Hag beseeches ethereal forces deep underground to seep upwards and hamper the progress of her enemies, draining all momentum from them.”
Curse – The Forbidden Fens
Area of Hexes – Negatively affects enemies Speed, Charge Speed and Vigour.
Blessing – Whispers in the Woods
Areas of Augments – Positively affects allied Speed, Charge Speed, Vigour, whilst granting Strider & Unspottable.
WITCHBREW
‘The Hag’s cauldron erupts in a bubbling crescendo, splashing its contents – and the Motherland’s boundless wrath – all over her hopeless enemies.”
Curse – Witchbrew
Breath – Damages units in its path and applies the poison contact effect.
Blessing – Witchbroth
Breath – Damages units in its path applies a contact effect to friendly units, which heals them, boosts their Vigour and making them Immune to Enemy Contact Effects.
CURSE OF THE ANCIENT WITCH
“A hooded figure summoned by the Hag whispers words of terror, both mortal and immortal, to those who should never, ever have gone wandering in the woods…”
Curse – Curse of the Ancient Witch
Hex – Negatively affects enemies Missile Block Chance, Armour and will spread to nearby enemies within the spells spread range.
Blessing – Blessing of the Ancient Witch
Augment – Imbues Magical Attacks, positively enhances Armour-Piercing Missile Damage, Base Missile Damage & Reload Skill.
VENGEANCE OF SPIRITS
“The Hag channels a malevolent spirit into an enemy’s soul to saturate their being and gradually tear them to bloody, miniscule shreds from the inside out.”
Curse – Vengeance of Spirits
Area of Direct Damage – Damages enemies within the radius and applies the “Silence” attribute which stops affected units from being able to use abilities or cast spells.
Blessing – Omen of Spirits
Area of Augments – Enhances the flow of Winds of Magic in favour of yours or allies spellcasters, dealing damage in the process.
CURSED CAULDRON
“Conjured up from the Hag’s cauldron, spectral missiles shoot upwards to rain carnage down upon the foe.”
Curse – Cursed Cauldron
Vortex – A static central vortex fires out projectiles that spawn smaller moving vortexes upon impact.
Blessing – Blessed Cauldron
Vortex – The same as the above, but this vortex no longer harms friendly units that are caught in the area of effect.
MALEDICTION OF MADNESS
“A sudden rush of nightmarish visions floods the victim’s psyche, driving them to a fleeting madness that debilitates even the hardiest warrior.”
Curse – Malediction of Madness
Hex – Negatively affects enemies Base Weapon Damage, Armour-Piercing Weapon Damage, Melee Attack and inflicts Rampage!
Blessing – Incantation of Mania
Augment – Increases Base Weapon Damage, Armour-Piercing Weapon Damage, Melee Attack and inflicts Rampage!
DRUZHINA (LORD)
The Druzhina is a character steeped in Kislev lore, a lesser noble that lives beyond the walls of Kislev’s great cities and tends to his own lands and his people. Ever ready to serve the Tzar or Tzarina, the Druzhina are well connected to the nature that surrounds them and bring with them to war items that have been handed down generation by generation.
They will act as a great addition to Kislev’s roster, bridging the gap that we had between the Boyars and that of Mother Ostankya in who could lead her armies.
“Druzhina are drawn from minor Kislevite nobility, and consist of landowning men of sufficient means that they can afford a horse, armour and weapons with which to defend the Motherland when called upon by the Tzar. As is befitting of members of the establishment, Druzhina have disdain for city-dwellers, and are keen on preserving the rural hierarchy that provides their power and status, but are also self-sufficient, resourceful and have a healthy attitude to the very real likelihood they will be killed during military service. The Druzhina’s main weapon of choice is the Great Axe – very nasty, when swung with conviction! – yet they also carry a bow.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
Despite being a faction of Hybrid units, Kislev has lacked a truly Hybrid lord-type character to sit in between the melee-focused Boyar and the magic-focused Ice Witch. The Druzhina subscribes to this playstyle by supporting missile lines with his abilities, whilst holding his own in melee with a powerful armour piercing great weapon.
Hybrid – The Druzhina is able to deal significant single target damage with his bow and able to deal armour-piercing damage with his axe in melee
Missile Unit Enhancement – Units near to the Druzhina will benefit from increased missile stats
Ammo Replenishment – The Druzhina is only unit in the Kislev roster that can replenish used up ammunition for friendly units, making him an effect support character for Kislevite missile lines
Mounts
Warhorse
THE GOLDEN KNIGHT, NARYSKA LEYSA (LEGENDARY HERO)
Balancing out the Legendary Heroes on offer in Shadows of Change, meant us looking for a character to join Kislev’s ranks.
The Golden Knight is the champion of the Ice Queen. This is an honorary rank bestowed to the greatest warrior among the Druzhina (or occasionally in history, Boyars or even the common soldiery). Naryska is the daughter of the previous golden Knight, who died at the side of Tsar Boris. As a girl, Naryska learned swordcraft from her father, honing her skills as a warrior from the finest in the realm. Though she was derided by her peers, she stood forward as a candidate as the Guardian of the Tsarina when the Druzhina elected her father’s successor.
Naryska is tall and powerfully built, the physical equal of any mighty warrior. But her greatest attribute is her determination. Such is her drive, that she trains longer and more intensely than any other… and in battle she fights with a fury born of stubborn pride. In Kislev she is unmatched in combat.
Every Golden Knight is consecrated by the Cult of Ursun, and so Naryska bears both religious ornamentation and the favour of the Ice Court. In this way she unifies the divided church and state.
“The Queen of Kislev’s champion is known as “The Golden Knight”, an honorary rank bestowed upon the finest warrior from among the ranks of the Druzhina, although Boyars or even the common soldiery have, on occasion, risen to the position. The current incumbent is Naryska Leysa, daughter of the previous Golden Knight, who was killed in battle at Tzar Boris’ side. In spite of fierce opposition from her peers, Naryska was promoted to champion on merit, for she is easily the physical equal of any man and twice as determined, having learned swordcraft from the finest practitioners in the land. On the battlefield, she is a whirlwind of furious attacks born of her stubborn, prideful nature, and unmatched in single combat.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
The Golden Knight is a heavily armoured guardian hero with a focus on protecting friendly characters and buffing the resolve of her comrades nearby. Wearing a full suit of armour and wielding the powerful magical sword, Urson’s Claw, she is a bulwark which many a foe will have difficulty overcoming.
Bodyguard – The Golden Knight is an exceptional protector, using her defensive abilities and stats to increase the durability of nearby friendly lords/heroes
Inspiration – The more damage sustained by the Golden Knight, the more determined surrounding friendly units become to fight on
Duellist – The Golden Knights durability and powerful sword allows her to go toe-to-toe with melee lords/heroes
Mounts
Warhorse
KISLEVITE WARRIORS (UNIT)
We’ve come to better understand that not every unit in the DLC needs to be a centrepiece monster and headed in the other direction with this new unit plugging a much needed lower tier infantry gap.
The Kislevite Warriors armed with their halberds are Tier 1 troops that are decent at withstanding a charge and bound by their blood will fight to the bitter end for Kislev.
We’ve taken inspiration in their design from older Mordheim miniatures, just like the Druzhina in creating something with a much closer feel and look to the land and woods that Mother Ostankya protects.
“The grim and hardy appearance of these men of the Oblast tell tales of a lifetime of endurance. Nothing matters more to Kislevite Warriors than the defence of the Motherland against the insidious forces of the Ruinous Powers and the preservation of a way of life stretching back many centuries – tasks they undertake with grim determination and armed with razor-sharp halberds. They are deeply religious, cherishing the traditional Kislevite gods, but chiefly Ursun, the Bear-God, from whom they surely draw their strength in combat. Such men are also extremely loyal to the Tzar and his family, whom they consider to be important symbols of Kislev just as much as Father Bear himself.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
Kislevite Warriors are halberd-wielding infantry that occupy a low price point within the Kislev roster. Because they don’t pay the tax of being a hybrid unit, Kislevite Warriors have more entities than a standard Kislivite infantry unit, which makes them an effective meat shield for the rest of your army.
Cheap – Kislevite Warriors are the cheapest true melee unit of the Kislev roster, making them a great pick in the early game
Anti-Large – Kislevite Warriors wield halberds which are great at combating monstrous infantry such as Trolls
Front Line Troops – With more entities than any other Kislev infantry unit, the Kislevite Warriors serve as a decent screen for your missile infantry.
FROST WYRM (UNIT & MOUNT)
You may recognise this name if you have ever ventured into Norsca or played a campaign of theirs. Now called a Chaos Frost Dragon the Norscan unit is very different to Kislev’s true Frost Wyrm. A hulking flightless beast, deadly in combat with its massive fanged jaws, scything claws and a vicious lashing tail.
The Frost Wyrm acts as both an individual unit, or a mount for Katarin or her Ice Witches.
“Frost Wyrms are creatures of magic who primarily roost in the Crags of Shargun. Swift and sinuous, who sleep away the warmest parts of the year in hibernation, venturing out onto the oblast to hunt prey when the weather is at its coldest. Their natural prey are the wandering herbivorous beasts which are easily devoured whole by an adult Frost Wyrm In times of famine they have been known to consume Chaos beasts too, taking savage delight in chomping down a Troll or Minotaur when the need arises.
Beings of Ice Magic, Frost Wyrms are naturally aligned to the witches of the Ice Court. In desperation an Ice Witch will travel to the Crags and beseech the slumbering Wyrms for aid and it is not unknown for a Frost Wyrm to answer their calls in times of coldest winter. The Ice Queen’s power is such that winter travels where she does – and no Frost Wyrm would ever refuse her.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
The Frost Wyrm is a deadly mid-tier Monster which can move its way across the battlefield relatively quickly for a monster of its size. With the top end of the roster getting particularly crowded, the Frost Wyrm’s power level is comparable to that of a Dark Elf War Hydra or the Stegadon of the Lizardmen. This enables it to really stand out on its own as a unique pick when compared to the Elemental Bear or Incarnate Elemental of Beasts.
Fast – The Frost Wyrm is a fast for a creature of its size, which enables it to manoeuvre into position quicker than most
Frostbite – The Frost Wyrm utilises the Frostbite contact effect, slowing enemies that it attacks
Mount – Katarin and Ice Witches may use the Frost Wyrm as a Mount
Mount for:
Katarin, Ice Witch
ICE COURT SLED (MOUNT – FREELC)
I can’t tell you how pleased the team are to be finally realising the Ice Court Sled in game for you all. It’s been on our wishlist like many of yours for some time since the launch of Total War: WARHAMMER III. Katarin will now rightly be able to nip across the snow-covered plains, hills and mountains of her lands.
Note: Players will only need Total War: WARHAMMER III to access this piece of free content. Ownership of the Shadows of Change DLC is not required.
“The Ice Court’s reinforced sled is drawn by mighty steeds with breath like the winter wind, and whose flanks shimmer with glittering ice crystals.”
GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW
Like the Wind – Pulled by six of the finest steeds that Kislev has to offer, the Ice Court Sled is the quickest way for Katarin to move around the battlefield.
Indomitable – The momentum of the sled allows it to push through enemy infantry lines with ease, making it an effective unit for disrupting and confusing enemy formations
Ice Guard Crew – Two members of the Ice Guard fire their bows from the sled, allowing it to also be used as a missile chariot in a pinch.
Mount for Katarin
⬥ ⬥ ⬥
I hope you enjoyed learning about all the new characters, units and spells coming to Kislev, as I have an added treat for you lore lovers out there next week that I touched on at the start of this blog. We have once again partnered with Black Library novelist David Guymer to bring you a wonderful dark tale “Things in the Wood”, taking a closer look at Mother Ostankya and the kingdom of Kislev. Total War Account holders, please keep your eyes peeled for news in your inbox from Monday.
So, now you’ve heard all about all the new additions, the team wanted to gather together the content in its entirety to show you just what the Shadows of Change offering looks like now in comparison to launch.
(Slide the bar to see before and after)
That’s it for now, thank you for your ongoing support and feedback. The team and I are super excited for the future and will be talking to you more on what’s next in the not too distance future for Total War: WARHAMMER III.
For Sigmar!
—Rich Aldridge (Game Director) & the Total War: WAHAMMER Team
With the full reveal of Thrones of Decay starting next week and continuing through April, I wanted to talk with you all about some pricing changes that we’re making for this DLC that we thought would be good to share ahead of our usual reveal business.
Before we get to that, let me quickly say thank you for the reception you gave to our updated Shadows of Change.
When we first launched, we got it wrong, but you gave us the chance to help address that and all of us across Total War were grateful for how warmly you embraced the new content that we added. We hope that decisions like this help to demonstrate our commitment to improving the relationship that we share with you, and we appreciate that actions continue to speak louder than words.
You may have seen the news from SEGA last week of potential changes happening to our teams here at Creative Assembly. No matter the outcome of these changes we will still be a team who love making content for Total War: WARHAMMER III and we hope that continues to shine as we move forward with the project with even more all-new content.
Onto the news we have for you today. We are making a one-time change to the way in which we’ll release Thrones of Decay, and all of us felt that we should talk about that openly with you all before we kick things off.
As announced last year, Thrones of Decay welcomes all-new content for the Empire, Dwarfs and Nurgle, and we’re happy to reveal that each faction's new content will be available to purchase either as a bundle, or on an individual basis i.e. if you only want to play as the Empire, you can buy this section of the DLC as a standalone purchase rather than having to buy everything, allowing you to pick and choose what you want to play. Here's how it'll work:
Thrones of Decay will be available to buy as a complete bundle at a discounted rate of $22.92/£19.10/€22.92.
Each individual pack will be available to purchase for $8.99/£7.49/€8.99 per pack.
If you purchase the packs individually on Steam, you’ll receive a 15% discount on the remaining packs when you complete your collection.
Back when we got started with production on Thrones of Decay close to a year ago, we had envisioned shipping this as one big package just like we did with Shadows of Change, and after talking with many of you these past few months we recognise that these large sized, higher priced packs aren’t always what you’re looking for. So, we’ve decided to do something different just for Thrones, and used this extra time to help show that we were listening to what you had to say.
This is a new approach for us, and something that we’ll have plenty to learn about as we do it, but we think it’s the right approach and something that we feel we can do in response to the pricing changes that we brought in late last year. Giving you more choices about the ways in which you can access all-new content is important to us, and we’re keen to listen in on the conversations that will rise from the back of this news.
We’re already deep into pre-production on our future DLC post-Thrones of Decay, and the current intent is to avoid creating something quite so big in scope so that we can help to keep both the value, and the price right for you.
Speaking of the future, we’ve also been hard at work these last few months re-aligning our vision of what’s yet to come for WARHAMMER III, and as promised back in December, we’ll be back to chat more with you all about where we go next a little while after we launch Thrones of Decay.
In the meantime, we’re looking forward to revealing this new DLC for you next week, and keen to listen in on what you have to say about today's news. Please do join us over on the Total War Discord, or the Total War Forums to share your thoughts - we always appreciate it when you do!
Thanks for reading, we’ll be back early next week with more.
It's a neat update for those who don't want it all in one go or who want all the armies updated. Certainly helps lessen the sting of the big price point for those customers.
While I'll certainly be purchasing this DLC, I'm most looking forward to whats in the free 5.0 QoL patch - particularly mechanic overhauls for the Empire, and hopefully something involving Ogre camp changes (horde please).
Overread wrote: Carmine dragons - land ships - FREAKING DWARF AIRSHIPS - that huge FW Nurgle beast that eats things (forgotten its name) and loads more bits
REALLY exciting looking expansion. I know the landships and larger airships have been popular mod content for ages so its great to see them appearing.
Toad-Dragon
Lots of great stuff here - Elspeth and Theodore (hoping for at least some fun Emmanuelle references) - cool Dwarfs as well
Not Online!!! wrote: It disgusts me that you lot forgive them so easily once more.
Hate leads to anger - Anger leads to pain - Pain leads to suffering - Suffering leads to Dead Jedi Children!!
Also I never hated them in the first place to have to forgive them to start with. They've made 3 massive games and a freaking massive amount of races, factions, dlc and content the like of which I suspect we will not see for an extremely long time for a real game battle game of this level of visual quality and style. Even the recent AoS game pales in comparison to what CA have pulled off.
Also if a firm makes a mistake; then makes steps toward correcting issues within that mistake why should I keep hating them?
Not Online!!! wrote: It disgusts me that you lot forgive them so easily once more.
I will buy it if its worth it - as I did with the revised version of Shadows....
Its the same as people still buying Cyberpunk which had much worse occasions of actual lying and misinformation by CD project team - the game has mostly been fixed o even if its not what they pretended it was = its now -- apparently a good enough game and worth the price.
Hating companies does very little - looking at products to see if they are worth it is much more effective.
Also the entire DLC is about the same price as one character model from GW - or less....
Not Online!!! wrote: It disgusts me that you lot forgive them so easily once more.
Hate leads to anger - Anger leads to pain - Pain leads to suffering - Suffering leads to Dead Jedi Children!!
Also I never hated them in the first place to have to forgive them to start with. They've made 3 massive games and a freaking massive amount of races, factions, dlc and content the like of which I suspect we will not see for an extremely long time for a real game battle game of this level of visual quality and style. Even the recent AoS game pales in comparison to what CA have pulled off.
Also if a firm makes a mistake; then makes steps toward correcting issues within that mistake why should I keep hating them?
They made 3 times the same game. Let's not pretend otherwise, it's the same gakky engine with the same gakky issues since BEFORE they started to make WHTW. They just sold it to you 3 times, what in the past would've been called expansion packs. At massivly inflated prices. We still have neither an apology for their attempted censorship on the steam forums nor for the behaviour in the past in regards to RTW2 or ETW. It's not "one mistake" it's a whole series with CA at this stage and whenever the community was up in arms the company improved again... somewhat. but this is hardly an improvement.
Not Online!!! wrote: It disgusts me that you lot forgive them so easily once more.
I will buy it if its worth it - as I did with the revised version of Shadows....
Its the same as people still buying Cyberpunk which had much worse occasions of actual lying and misinformation by CD project team - the game has mostly been fixed o even if its not what they pretended it was = its now -- apparently a good enough game and worth the price.
Hating companies does very little - looking at products to see if they are worth it is much more effective.
Also the entire DLC is about the same price as one character model from GW - or less....
When you have comparable buissness practices to GW that should be enough of a red flag. And sure they were nice enough to make it splitable so that you can avoid some aspects of the DLC. But content wise? The price is still massivle inflated for the single faction add ons even just internally.
And hatred is too strong a word to describe my stance torwards CA. I just disrespect them for the disrespect shown torwards their custommer base.
I got 6 new units (2 for each faction) and a new campaign for 3 factions (with cinematics) for half the price of the original game.
Most other RTS games maxed out an expansion with perhaps 1 full new faction if you were lucky and again at half price of the original.
So I'll happily take a £40 (fullprice) game that comes with multiple brand new factions.
Yes its "the same game 3 times" but its an entirely new campaign map; WAY WAY more factions than you'd get with 1 expansion pack (even at the height of the golden age). In fact chances are if we paid £15 per faction it would end up costing more!
So yeah I'm still happy.
The only thing I wish they'd have put some work into was a compressed global map mode. Far fewer provinces and perhaps only 1 of each main faction race appearing on it. Just so you could get that "ruled the world" feeling but with a much smaller grand campaign experience.
Though running on SSD and with their updates they've at the very least made the turn wait times super short compared to what they were
Not Online!!! wrote: It disgusts me that you lot forgive them so easily once more.
Hate leads to anger - Anger leads to pain - Pain leads to suffering - Suffering leads to Dead Jedi Children!!
Also I never hated them in the first place to have to forgive them to start with. They've made 3 massive games and a freaking massive amount of races, factions, dlc and content the like of which I suspect we will not see for an extremely long time for a real game battle game of this level of visual quality and style. Even the recent AoS game pales in comparison to what CA have pulled off.
Also if a firm makes a mistake; then makes steps toward correcting issues within that mistake why should I keep hating them?
They made 3 times the same game. Let's not pretend otherwise, it's the same gakky engine with the same gakky issues since BEFORE they started to make WHTW. They just sold it to you 3 times, what in the past would've been called expansion packs.
At massivly inflated prices. We still have neither an apology for their attempted censorship on the steam forums nor for the behaviour in the past in regards to RTW2 or ETW. It's not "one mistake" it's a whole series with CA at this stage and whenever the community was up in arms the company improved again... somewhat. but this is hardly an improvement.
Not Online!!! wrote: It disgusts me that you lot forgive them so easily once more.
I will buy it if its worth it - as I did with the revised version of Shadows....
Its the same as people still buying Cyberpunk which had much worse occasions of actual lying and misinformation by CD project team - the game has mostly been fixed o even if its not what they pretended it was = its now -- apparently a good enough game and worth the price.
Hating companies does very little - looking at products to see if they are worth it is much more effective.
Also the entire DLC is about the same price as one character model from GW - or less....
When you have comparable buissness practices to GW that should be enough of a red flag. And sure they were nice enough to make it splitable so that you can avoid some aspects of the DLC. But content wise? The price is still massivle inflated for the single faction add ons even just internally.
And hatred is too strong a word to describe my stance torwards CA. I just disrespect them for the disrespect shown torwards their custommer base.
Seem to be pretty standard for a computer games company and def not as bad as some... The question is do you want the product and is it a fair price for you?
For me its reasonable but others will differ and I have much bigger things to worry about in real life.
That trailer is quite hype, make me want to play.
Need more game time I do, but it always surprised me they didn’t get together with GW for an Age of sigmar version.
Apple fox wrote: That trailer is quite hype, make me want to play.
Need more game time I do, but it always surprised me they didn’t get together with GW for an Age of sigmar version.
Honestly considering that the Old World one has done so well (even with the 3rd version wobbles) I'd be really surprised if they don't do another big game.
Now they could do 40K or AoS with the TW engine pretty well. That said it might be a long game - CA might want to focus on historicals and there's always a chance that they might feel they've done enough fantasy that they could do their own or find a new licence to use instead.
No doubt CA has long-term plans. But first it needs to survive whatever cuts are forced upon it by Sega. And during the backlash that occurred during the lead-up to the previous DLC, it sounds as if even with Warhammer, CA might be skating on thin ice.
