Vaktathi wrote: The resins are actually all cast by Fusion Models if I remember correctly. With regards to the metals, I've had lots of clean sculpts, a fair number of minor issues, and handful of unusable models (replacements were sent), I think it depends on who's doing casting that day
The CEF metals are unusually expensive, above and beyond most of the rest of the lineup, not entirely sure why specifically.
I'm sure getting replacements is easy when you are in the same continent. Alas...
The new 3.1 beta rules look to really nerf polar light tanks pretty hard to the point where it's basically better to take a fire support gear instead :/
So... 3d preview of the first golem... and for some reason I assumed those were wheels of some kind. And they're not.
Spoiler:
Goodness gracious, they are actually hover thrusters. That... looks monumentally stupid, and horribly unbalanced, like "imma gonna faceplant now mum!" unbalanced.
At least hovertanks and the like seem to have actual wige and maneuvering surfaces, while... this... really, really does not.
Albertorius wrote: So... 3d preview of the first golem... and for some reason I assumed those were wheels of some kind. And they're not.
*snip*
Goodness gracious, they are actually hover thrusters. That... looks monumentally stupid, and horribly unbalanced, like "imma gonna faceplant now mum!" unbalanced.
At least hovertanks and the like seem to have actual wige and maneuvering surfaces, while... this... really, really does not.
I like them. FWIW, they don't need wings or maneuvering surfaces when you have independently positioned thruster balls providing lift/thrust/maneuvering.
Albertorius wrote: So... 3d preview of the first golem... and for some reason I assumed those were wheels of some kind. And they're not.
*snip*
Goodness gracious, they are actually hover thrusters. That... looks monumentally stupid, and horribly unbalanced, like "imma gonna faceplant now mum!" unbalanced.
At least hovertanks and the like seem to have actual wige and maneuvering surfaces, while... this... really, really does not.
I like them. FWIW, they don't need wings or maneuvering surfaces when you have independently positioned thruster balls providing lift/thrust/maneuvering.
You totally do, actually ^^. Unless you just wanna topple over, that is . It's either that or you distribute your weight as evenly as you can and move the vertical thrusters to put them as far away from the others as you possible can to try and generate lift, and you put the weight below the thrust. That's why most (all) the 4-fans drones are as they are, and even the Gravity jetpack follows just about the same form factor instead of strapping thrusters to your legs. This guy is umbalanced as all heck and horribly top heavy. And then there's the lance, of course. hell, even
Anyways, I didn't mind the look until I saw them floating, then my brain went all "what in the flying feth".
I think I would not feel that strongly if it was an actual hover vehicle (some centimeters above the ground) instead of magicky scifi hover tech (toss coin between antigrav or actually wige) or vectored thrust. Were it floating centimeters above the ground on an air cushion it would certainly would not feel in the process of faceplanting.
At the end of the day it's mostly a visceral reaction more than anything else.
Albertorius wrote: This guy is umbalanced as all heck and horribly top heavy. And then there's the lance, of course. hell, even
Anyways, I didn't mind the look until I saw them floating, then my brain went all "what in the flying feth".
I agree it's top heavy but picking up litter probably isn't a priority. My point was that the hoverballs can provide the stability and maneuverability and that, for me, is enough science in my fiction to be ok with the design. It certainly doesn't hurt admittedly that I like the asthetic as well. I fully agree that positioning them further out from the center of gravity would result in a more stable design but maybe they extend partly out on rails? Did they publish the assembly guide/parts list yet? I'd assume the balls are separate and convertable potentially for those interested in conversions and bothered by the mechanics.
At the end of the day it's mostly a visceral reaction more than anything else.
I get it. I still vurp a little every time I come across a picture of a gearstrider.
Saw this video today and I wonder if Dream Pod 9 will consider going this route. Apparently Corvus Belli is starting to switch some stuff from metal to this Siocast stuff (soft plastic in rubber injection molds), and Reaper has already switched some of their stuff to it.
Seems like a happy middle ground; metal casting times and detail (less vents though, they use a vacuum pump before injection), plastic material costs. Nice to see casting technology get a new development.
Also seems fairly ideal for switching expensive Heavy Gear resin/metal models into plastic without resculpting them.
Good video. I wonder what kind of poseability options for one piece minis that allows (i.e. do you have to have the dreaded 2d all in one plane mini like the old 2nd edition 40k marine characters) or if you can have things sticking out at different angles to some limited degree.
I was just trying to think of what new options this could offer a small company like dp9. If they could offer one piece or preassembled non-fragile minis in a squad starter box as an option for example without outsourcing to China.
John Prins wrote: Probably about the same as for metals. The molds have to be vulcanized before you can start casting stuff.
Not an issue for Heavy Gear stuff that's already being done that way.
I've had some siocast models on hand, and the detail is very good, up there with most metal casts I've seen and (the good) PVC minis from boardgames, slightly less crisp than the best resin casts like Artel's.
Poseability wise, it should allow anything that resins or metals currently allow, wo it will very much depend on the sculpt.
I've had some siocast models on hand, and the detail is very good, up there with most metal casts I've seen and (the good) PVC minis from boardgames, slightly less crisp than the best resin casts like Artel's.
Poseability wise, it should allow anything that resins or metals currently allow, wo it will very much depend on the sculpt.
Glad to hear from someone with experience with siocast models. I'm tempted to order a Reaper model or three to see how they turn out.
I also wonder if the molds would last longer with Siocast, as hot plastic is probably a lot cooler than hot metal, though you do have the added stress of the vacuum phase of the injection process. Though the exact rubber composition probably isn't the same as with metal casting molds either.
My box of shame from five years ago didn't teach me any lessons apparently. I lucked out an got another RAFM haul recently technically NIB but more accurately falling out of the blisters due to the plastic cracking/disintegrating (hence the baggies once I got things mostly put back in place) but still... Some are repeats but at least a couple were on my want list and one was definitely on my must have list.
warboss wrote: My box of shame from five years ago didn't teach me any lessons apparently. I lucked out an got another RAFM haul recently technically NIB but more accurately falling out of the blisters due to the plastic cracking/disintegrating (hence the baggies once I got things mostly put back in place) but still... Some are repeats but at least a couple were on my want list and one was definitely on my must have list.
Spill the beans? What didya get? Inquiring minds want to know!
It was fortunately a wide variety across all the major categories (trooper, scout, elite, heavy) for both factions but the must have for me was a King Cobra as I'd been looking for one for years without luck (missing out on some reasonably priced ones or being priced out of the rest). I also needed southern recon units as I only had a single iguana in my megalot from five years ago.
There are others on my buy list still like stealth gears (mamba and jaguar specifically) as I'd ideally like to be able to make a stealth sub-unit/squad (whatever the two gear minimum attachment to a normal squad is) for each faction as well as alternatively four each in my squads (instead of the current three) without repeats. This definitely isn't a "tournament" style list made to win but rather just a collection specifically for variety.
John Prins wrote:Saw this video today and I wonder if Dream Pod 9 will consider going this route.
Also seems fairly ideal for switching expensive Heavy Gear resin/metal models into plastic without resculpting them.
There's two big problems with Siocast.
1) Siocast is the only source for siocast material as of right now. Going Siocast locks you into a single-source for production which isn't a concern at all for one-and-done things like board games or kickstarters, but for a company in it for the long run, that means if the cost of materials goes up, or Siocast just feels like making more profits that quarter, you bend over and take.
Anyone in production for a decent amount of times knows the dangers of winding up single sourced. It's a bad business move.
2) Throwing all the old molds out and buying new ones is a massive investment, well above the size of their previous kickstarters for up front costs. The pod just don't operate with that kind of budget. If they were ever to go down that route, because the material becomes multi-sourcable for instance, they'd do what CB is doing and replace old molds as they break on a slow transition.
John Prins wrote:
Albertorius wrote: I also wonder if the molds would last longer with Siocast, as hot plastic is probably a lot cooler than hot metal, though you do have the added stress of the vacuum phase of the injection process. Though the exact rubber composition probably isn't the same as with metal casting molds either.
Average siocast mold life is 400 runs with quite a bit of variance depending on the intricacy of the pieces. Most molds can fit at least 5 32mm figures, but you can fit more if they don't have complex poses, optional pieces, or are just smaller scale. Source; dude in the area did a kickstarter and had Reaper do the Siocasting for it. Prices are under NDA and he said were hugely dependently on how many, delivered when, on what timeline, and the complexity of the models, so it's pretty hard to just throw out a number that means anything.
warboss wrote:There are others on my buy list still like stealth gears (mamba and jaguar specifically) as I'd ideally like to be able to make a stealth sub-unit/squad (whatever the two gear minimum attachment to a normal squad is) for each faction as well as alternatively four each in my squads (instead of the current three) without repeats. This definitely isn't a "tournament" style list made to win but rather just a collection specifically for variety.
Time and again I get a pack from DP9 and like the figures more in person than on the store. Nearly done (decals, varnish, basing) with a pair of Chameleons from the Southern spec-ops squad.
I wonder just how expensive is it to buy DP9 stuff currently from anywhere outside of North America, what with the insane increase in shipping costs and all.
Back in 2010, when Heavy Gear started (and quickly stopped) gaining some sembalance of traction over here, a lot of people initially interested were put off by prices - and that was during the time when it was almost certainly either you play GW or you play nothing, so high prices for anything model related were a given. I can only speculate this place is not the only one with similar opinion.
SgtBANZAI wrote: Back in 2010, when Heavy Gear started (and quickly stopped) gaining some sembalance of traction over here, a lot of people initially interested were put off by prices - and that was during the time when it was almost certainly either you play GW or you play nothing, so high prices for anything model related were a given. I can only speculate this place is not the only one with similar opinion.
DP9 prices have always given GW a run for their money, that's not new. I was thinking exclusively in terms of "shipping + customs charges on top of GW-level prices".
Back then it basically doubled the original price, nowadays I can only wonder... and probably, be horrified.
In Panama shipping from the USA is still quite cheap thankfully. Something good for being part of their backyard.
Costs of miniatures on the other hand, not just Heavy Gear, are something else because of the cost of living vs average income of the average wargamer. But still affordable.
There is a pair of hobby stores, both have products at a bit of a mark up for all board, RPG and wargames but still affordable, and purchasing direct from USA is cheaper. People buy from the stores because they like to cooperate with the local business and because you don't have to wait for shipping.
Albertorius wrote: I wonder just how expensive is it to buy DP9 stuff currently from anywhere outside of North America, what with the insane increase in shipping costs and all.
To the point where it is not economicly worth it, shipping expenses and tax will allways ruin it.
You pay 125 USD for the 2p starter, then you need to pay 42USD for postal airmail shipping according to their site info if that is even a current price (if fedex or ups option had existed you could change that to 60-80 USD) then since there is no VAT you have to pay import tax on collection, so that means for my country prolly about 50-70 USD. (and had there still been VAT included in the price, i would still need to pay some form of customs tax)
And ofc there is the shipping time that for example my my country, would be 4-5 weeks.
So that is basicly pay for two 2p starter sets, recive only one. That is why buying minis that is not allready in a european or scandenavia country (and uk is no longer part of EU as everyone should know by now) is NOT worth it as a private person living in EU or scandenavia.
If a mini game/brand wants to make an entrance into EU, they either need a product EU destribution hub, local shop importers or sell STL print files of their minis.
OTOH, if DP9 did release decent stl files for HG or JC, I'd probably buy them all.
As would i. but since they dont, nor have a eu destribution hub, it is a game that is practicly unavalible outside of u.s. It is sad, but that is the reality.
OTOH, if DP9 did release decent stl files for HG or JC, I'd probably buy them all.
As would i. but since they dont, nor have a eu destribution hub, it is a game that is practicly unavalible outside of u.s. It is sad, but that is the reality.
So... it's been what, half a year or something, since the Pod started selling Gear Krieg STL files.
Do they plan on selling HG files at some point? Because, again, I would buy HG STL files, but there's no way in hell I would buy physical stuff from their store, with current shipping costs. No way in hell.
It seems DP9 has started selling 3d files, which is a move I fully endorse. As soon as they sell Heavy Gear stuff, I will buy it.
That said, I think this would be the perfect opportunity for them to address their horrible non-USA distribution issues. Now they have decided to go this route, they should embrace it and sell files for private hobbyists like me, but also license the commercial use of the files so that printers can produce minis locally and sell them.
That could certainly help with that.
EDITED TO ADD: Well, I will buy them except if they are the 3d models from the KS, particularly the North/South ones, because those were 1) made for the limitations they had for plastic sprue production, and 2) utterly horrible.
Just a new heads up to DP9, now that they seem to be being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century: I will buy HG stls if you sell them.
I clicked the link and it had zero HG files available under the appropriate category.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This may be old news to some but it appears like there is more news on the HG front. I haven't looked at their stuff this year but it looks like they added redone classic 1e/2e RPG books up on drivthrurpg as well. They're not just bootleg quality scans of the paper products like for the past twenty years but apparently redone from the original files. I was able to totally zoom in on the individual graphics to a level previously that would have been a mess. The detail on some of my favorite art is ridiculously good now.
Albertorius wrote: Problem with those new pdfs is that if you bought their old gakky scanned pdfs, you don't get to get those updated unless you buy them all again.
Which is a really gakky way of doing business, if you ask me. So they can go feth themselves.
Normally I'd agree with you in general on simple updates of pdfs but I think these are genuinely better/more in this limited case. I would add though that the price is a bit more than I expected though and I would have appreciated some sort of a discount for those who bought the previous ones. I might pick up some 1st edition Field Guides the next time drivethru has a big sale but I totally understand why others wouldn't. Fortunately in my case, my most nostalgic wants are the cheapest/smallest products.
Albertorius wrote: Problem with those new pdfs is that if you bought their old gakky scanned pdfs, you don't get to get those updated unless you buy them all again.
Which is a really gakky way of doing business, if you ask me. So they can go feth themselves.
Normally I'd agree with you in general on simple updates of pdfs but I think these are genuinely better/more in this limited case. I would add though that the price is a bit more than I expected though and I would have appreciated some sort of a discount for those who bought the previous ones. I might pick up some 1st edition Field Guides the next time drivethru has a big sale but I totally understand why others wouldn't. Fortunately in my case, my most nostalgic wants are the cheapest/smallest products.
They are the same books, and they did NEVER update their crappily scanned pdfs. I don't think they should expect people that already bought their books to get them again if the content is the same, so updating them for the people that did bear with them and the shoddy performance should not even impact their baseline.
Also, by that same logic errataed books are also better/more, so we shouldn't get those for free either .
The new pdfs are, simply put, what they should have been since the very begining, but they were too cheap to do until now. And if you were stupid enough to buy them before? Well, feth you, sucks to be you.
And let's not fool ourselves, these are just updated pdfs, unless they have different ISBN numbers to prove they aren't. I could have done (and I have done) what they have in a lot less time, and it's not that much of an effort or an expense. They, once again, were simply too cheap to do it until now, and they are, once again, too cheap to update their already existing customers.
The new books have a weird path to existence. Basically one fan fronted the money (like $5k) to have an outside company take the original compatible-with-nothing ancient mac files and bash on them til they could be imported into a program modern enough to render them as PDFs.
The guy that owns DP9? Never cared about making updated copies, he just wanted to make brand new books and who gives a gak about the old stuff. He approved of this project grudgingly.
I believe part of their cost is to directly reimburse that fan.
And they are incredibly better quality than any other company I've ever seen try to digitize an old book has achieved. Maybe when WotC did the AD&D 1e set. They're basically 'remastered', not fixed.
But totally agree, an 'upgrade' discount should have been available to people that own the old scans.
slyphic wrote: The new books have a weird path to existence. Basically one fan fronted the money (like $5k) to have an outside company take the original compatible-with-nothing ancient mac files and bash on them til they could be imported into a program modern enough to render them as PDFs.
The guy that owns DP9? Never cared about making updated copies, he just wanted to make brand new books and who gives a gak about the old stuff. He approved of this project grudgingly.
I'm of two minds about this one.
On one hand, this is exactly the product I've been wanting for... Hmmm... At least 15 years now ? Good quality PDFs.
On the other, they are overpriced at pretty much actual paper book prize, and there's something weird about the whole thing.
For all his talk about pleasing the fans, Robert seems really intent on burrying the whole 1st/2nd ed line, and I remember claims the original files were lost. I'm not surprised to hear about how reluctant he was about this, what I'm surprised about is that some people were able to convince him otherwise.
In the end, I'm still quite likely to get the core books in that "new" line.
Sell me things I want, with satisfying quality, you'll get my money.
Apparently someone put money up front, and I guess that was too much of a temptation.
Funnily enough... if something like $5k is "big money" for the company, and a big investment that needs to be recouped... that puts in perspective a lot of their financial situation.
That amount of money is in the ballpark of what I get for a corebook translation (sometimes more, sometimes less). A single one. That's about a month, month and a half of part-time work for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, as a side note to te Pod: If you want this stuff to sell, particularly at those prices... don't just throw it all at the same time.
Drip feed it. Sell them one at a time, maybe dropping one each couple weeks. It's more likely people will buy them that way (instead of a guhe amount of money to rebuy what they already have), AND you keep interest longer, as you have stuff being released over a longer period of time.
Think of it as the Netflix vs. regular release of series: people talk about stuff longer if it's released over a longer timeframe.
Sell me things I want, with satisfying quality, you'll get my money.
It's sadly ironic that one of the things that made DP9 stand out to me in the mid 90's was the same electronic layout that "stopped" them from professionally releasing the products digitally.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albertorius wrote: Apparently someone put money up front, and I guess that was too much of a temptation.
Funnily enough... if something like $5k is "big money" for the company, and a big investment that needs to be recouped... that puts in perspective a lot of their financial situation.
That amount of money is in the ballpark of what I get for a corebook translation (sometimes more, sometimes less). A single one. That's about a month, month and a half of part-time work for me.
Albertorius discussing his next project with the company...
HudsonD wrote: I can't help but wonder if simply scanning the text, then redoing the whole layout from scratch wouldn't have been easier, faster and cheaper.
For DP9? It's hard to be cheaper than free if the above statements about a fan funding it privately are true.
warboss wrote: It's hard to be cheaper than free if the above statements about a fan funding it privately are true.
I literally talked to the guy that's named in the thanks section of the announcement. Horse's mouth.
Thanks for the clarification. It wasn't meant as a dig against you or anyone else as the source but just rather a standard I apply unless I see/hear/read it myself.
HudsonD wrote: I can't help but wonder if simply scanning the text, then redoing the whole layout from scratch wouldn't have been easier, faster and cheaper.
Probably, yes. Their layout is not that complex, and they already had templates for those, and all the illustrations in the original color versions.
Ahtman wrote: I recall someone was working on some large scale stls for the older gears a few years ago. Does anyone else remember that or what happened?
There was a guy on reddit that I had bookmarked who was working on files but my old computer HD crashed and I lost it along with most of my own files ripped from the Assault game.
Ahtman wrote: I recall someone was working on some large scale stls for the older gears a few years ago. Does anyone else remember that or what happened?
I printed a Hunter and contacted the person who did it to ask them if they were planning to do some more. They said yeah, but...
Automatically Appended Next Post: As to the RPGKS is... a weird duck.
No real info about the game on the KS, no real talk about mechanics, no Quick Start to show the game during the KS... no nothing, other than some pics and some promises. Not even the old beta.
And pretty out there prices for the physical copy, too (120$ CAD for a softcover, 140$ CAD for a hardcover, plus shipping, for a DrivethruRPG PoD book).
That much? Oof. That's alot. I only skimmed through the info and didn't look at the pledge levels as I'm not the target for this (my interest in HG traditionally was more on the tactical/wargaming side personally). I can't see that working at retail after the fact either so I wonder if that's even in the plans. I suppose retail customers getting a massive discount to make it viable would be an option once they traditionally print it (instead of POD) but that certainly isn't likely to engender much good will in the early adopters.
And pretty out there prices for the physical copy, too (120$ CAD for a softcover, 140$ CAD for a hardcover, plus shipping, for a DrivethruRPG PoD book).
Finally got around to looking at this, and yeah, that's really rough. $30 CAD for the eBook alone doesn't seem too bad, but another +90 CAD for getting a softcover version (or +110 for hardcover). Going by the campaign, it's 480 pages full color, that's about twice as thick as 2nd edition, which was mostly black and white. With that size I think going hardcover for the extra $20 is probably the better idea, but $140 is pricey.
For reference, the Pathfinder 2e Core Rulebook hardcover is 640 pages full color and $105 CAD on Amazon, but they are getting some economies of scale given the popularity and traditional printing.
I do like that sample art though. Eldon Cowgur has done a decent job channeling Ghislain's original art.
warboss wrote: I didn't play 2nd edition. Did they split off the tactical wargame from the RPG in the core book or was that later?
IIRC, the Tactical box came out after 2nd edition, and really it just stripped the RPG elements out and focused on vehicular combat scale. Eventually this would become Heavy Gear Blitz!
And pretty out there prices for the physical copy, too (120$ CAD for a softcover, 140$ CAD for a hardcover, plus shipping, for a DrivethruRPG PoD book).
Finally got around to looking at this, and yeah, that's really rough. $30 CAD for the eBook alone doesn't seem too bad, but another +90 CAD for getting a softcover version (or +110 for hardcover). Going by the campaign, it's 480 pages full color, that's about twice as thick as 2nd edition, which was mostly black and white. With that size I think going hardcover for the extra $20 is probably the better idea, but $140 is pricey.
For reference, the Pathfinder 2e Core Rulebook hardcover is 640 pages full color and $105 CAD on Amazon, but they are getting some economies of scale given the popularity and traditional printing.
I do like that sample art though. Eldon Cowgur has done a decent job channeling Ghislain's original art.
Problem is... "bigger =/= better". Does it need 480 pages to create a game because it needs it, or because the writing is overly dense? What does doubling up in pagecount gives you in comparison with 2nd edition, taking into account that book gave you even tactical rules in a single package?
Furthermore, to give a better comparison, the Worlds Without Number DrivethruRPG hardcover color print is 400 pages and CAD$ 80.21. At regular prices, not at KS reduced ones. So I'm pretty confident saying that their pricing is a "tad" out there.
EDIT: Actually, I've just checked and it seems it going to be DrivethruRPG's most expensive printed book, outside of bundles and "we had to put this on DTRPG to send it, but we'll put a pants on head crazy price so that nobody but people with our code will order it" books.
warboss wrote: I didn't play 2nd edition. Did they split off the tactical wargame from the RPG in the core book or was that later?
Nope, the tactical rules were on the book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And with that, I just cancelled my pledge. No quickstart during the KS and those prices makes me have to wait and see.
EDIT: Actually, I've just checked and it seems it going to be DrivethruRPG's most expensive printed book, outside of bundles and "we had to put this on DTRPG to send it, but we'll put a pants on head crazi price so that nobody but people with out code will order it" books.
That's probably not a list you want to be on top of as a niche game whose nostalgia for most is a hazy distant memory. Maybe DP9 is trying to recoup their initial costs immediately and pay the freelancers only with those funds like with the earlier rescans?
IIRC, the Tactical box came out after 2nd edition, and really it just stripped the RPG elements out and focused on vehicular combat scale. Eventually this would become Heavy Gear Blitz!
Thanks for the confirmation on the tactical rules. I knew they split them off at some point after I quit but wasn't sure if it was with the subsequent 2e or later.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those that follow HG on other platforms (twitter, discord, facebook, the official forums, etc), how is the reception for the new RPG? I'm curious as to the excitement it's raising and if it feels more weighted to nostalgic classic fans or if it's enticing in new players too.
Problem is... "bigger =/= better". Does it need 480 pages to create a game because it needs it, or because the writing is overly dense? What does doubling up in pagecount gives you in comparison with 2nd edition, taking into account that book gave you even tactical rules in a single package?
I definitely think we need more info on what the book contains. All we really know it it has integrated RPG/Blitz rules and vehicle customization. Hopefully it contains a lot of Life on Terra Nova material so that new people to the game don't have to buy older edition material to get enough info on the world. But I imagine a lot of that space could be vehicle stats.
Furthermore, to give a better comparison, the Worlds Without Number DrivethruRPG hardcover color print is 400 pages and CAD$ 80.21. At regular prices, not at KS reduced ones. So I'm pretty confident saying that their pricing is a "tad" out there.
Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.
And with that, I just cancelled my pledge. No quickstart during the KS and those prices makes me have to wait and see.
Definitely pushing into 'artbook' prices rather than RPG book prices. I have to admit I'd buy this mainly for the new art, though at least 1 other person in my local gaming group is buying in already.
John Prins wrote: Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.
I would not discount the pdf price from the price of the hardcover unless they are planning not to give it away with the physical version (which.... would not be a good look, IMHO, and also the WWN book also has a complimentary pdf, so it would be the same comparison either way). At this moment, the only price point we've seen of the books is CAD$120 for the softcover (with complimentary pdf) and CAD$140 for the hardcover (with complimentary pdf).
Or are you talking about something else? Because I haven't seen any add on on the campaign.
John Prins wrote: Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.
I would not discount the pdf price from the price of the hardcover unless they are planning not to give it away with the physical version (which.... would not be a good look, IMHO, and also the WWN book also has a complimentary pdf, so it would be the same comparison either way). At this moment, the only price point we've seen of the books is CAD$120 for the softcover (with complimentary pdf) and CAD$140 for the hardcover (with complimentary pdf).
Or are you talking about something else? Because I haven't seen any add on on the campaign.
There's an add-on for just the physical book in the pledge manager, I guess so people can get extra copies. I dunno if you can just straight pledge 110 and select a book, though.
John Prins wrote: Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.
I would not discount the pdf price from the price of the hardcover unless they are planning not to give it away with the physical version (which.... would not be a good look, IMHO, and also the WWN book also has a complimentary pdf, so it would be the same comparison either way). At this moment, the only price point we've seen of the books is CAD$120 for the softcover (with complimentary pdf) and CAD$140 for the hardcover (with complimentary pdf).
Or are you talking about something else? Because I haven't seen any add on on the campaign.
There's an add-on for just the physical book in the pledge manager, I guess so people can get extra copies. I dunno if you can just straight pledge 110 and select a book, though.
Thank you for the clarification, I didn't notice the PM. So it seems they're pricing the pdf at $30 no matter what... I'd rather they didn't :( but it makes the price of the actual physical book less insane.
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John Prins wrote: I definitely think we need more info on what the book contains. All we really know it it has integrated RPG/Blitz rules and vehicle customization. Hopefully it contains a lot of Life on Terra Nova material so that new people to the game don't have to buy older edition material to get enough info on the world. But I imagine a lot of that space could be vehicle stats.
It DOES seem like it's going to have a fuckton of vehicle stats...
Apparently everything in the companion but the Murdock and the Seeker.... so probably everything else is in too (because otherwise having utopian droids and paxtonian tiny-gears-they-tell-us-are-exosqueletons but not other stuff would seem weird xD)
Kinda begs the question of how needed were those when the regular Blitz stats are the same (AFAIK) and available for free in the Blitz books.
This blog entry has 2 different stat blocks for the Nash - one in HGB and one in the RPG, which seems to allow for customization. It's mostly the same but...
Hm, can't say I'm up to date enough with the new blitz rules to say much, but it feels like it would have been probably more efficient to just state what you needed to change to use the stats for the RPG, if any. Give a couple of core examples, refer people to the free wargame, maybe make some of the RPG players check that one out...
Adding all the vehicles from your wargame to the corebook of your rpg is certainly a choice, though. Or a mission statement, I guess.
Well I guess they would need to list every vehicle in the RPG for customization purposes in the first place, so putting in stats is just efficient. Nobody wants to be told "for most gears, cross reference this other book and do this conversion" even if that book is free.
The conversion does seem relatively minor. Armor/Hull seems to have been replaced with a single stat (HI which I assume is Hull Integrity) and the success thresholds have changed (in a way I don't understand, GU and PI are 4+ in Blitz but +0 in the RPG format), but otherwise everything seems to be just a reformatting aside from the customization slot table.
John Prins wrote: Well I guess they would need to list every vehicle in the RPG for customization purposes in the first place, so putting in stats is just efficient. Nobody wants to be told "for most gears, cross reference this other book and do this conversion" even if that book is free.
The conversion does seem relatively minor. Armor/Hull seems to have been replaced with a single stat (HI which I assume is Hull Integrity) and the success thresholds have changed (in a way I don't understand, GU and PI are 4+ in Blitz but +0 in the RPG format), but otherwise everything seems to be just a reformatting aside from the customization slot table.
Yeah, dunno. Maybe it kinda rubs me the wrong way because it's not what I want out of a HGRPG myself and that shadows my perception of it. For some reason, almost all of the HG campaigns I've played and/or GMed mostly had vehicles as window dressing (where you don't need stats for anything) or only appeared like in one out of ten sessions, if ever. The only exceptions were military campaigns (where customization was... well, not that much of a thing or very minor, as your vehicles were not yours, so just using the default tactical stats was much more than enough) or that underground gear racing one that we did after watching Rideback ^^ (where we mostly used the VCS to create butwheel prototypes).
But most HG campaigns I've played/GMed were apparently different to the default they want.
They must have sold out as I don't see any currently. This may sound strange but I only think of Noble Knight in terms of out of print used items moreso than new.
warboss wrote: They must have sold out as I don't see any currently. This may sound strange but I only think of Noble Knight in terms of out of print used items moreso than new.
They're the biggest distributor right now for Bushido, so I keep tabs on them. Their search/filter functions are...less than impressive though.
warboss wrote: They must have sold out as I don't see any currently. This may sound strange but I only think of Noble Knight in terms of out of print used items moreso than new.
They're the biggest distributor right now for Bushido, so I keep tabs on them. Their search/filter functions are...less than impressive though.
Checking the KS I see, CA$ 100,848 pledged of CA$ 40,000 goal with 808 people.
It seems to me like a successful campaign, but what do I know? I have heard there's lots of new art, and given the last few years of global disruptions have caused price increases that are pretty drastic.
I know our food bill has gone up way out of proportion to the officially reported rate of inflation over here in Britain (probably due to Brexshit).
Paint it Pink wrote: Checking the KS I see, CA$ 100,848 pledged of CA$ 40,000 goal with 808 people.
It seems to me like a successful campaign, but what do I know? I have heard there's lots of new art, and given the last few years of global disruptions have caused price increases that are pretty drastic.
I know our food bill has gone up way out of proportion to the officially reported rate of inflation over here in Britain (probably due to Brexshit).
I'm glad it worked out and it definitely had a big bump since the last time I checked it. Hopefully being POD will avoid at least some of the disruptions for the customers who bought physical copies. If anything, the new art is what I'd be most excited about personally though I'm not a backer so will have to see it second hand.
Finally got me a RAFM King Cobra again for the first time in about 20 years. It was the my first tabletop model that I bought (not just for HG but miniatures gaming in general) and I finally got another one to go with my resurrected RAFM collection that I've still yet to paint even a single model of. I suppose now I have no excuse not to assemble a southern force to match my existing Northern one. That way I can sell off my extras as I'd have no excuse not to.
Albertorius wrote: Nice to see you're still interested in the hobby part of the game at least ^^
Thanks. It is a bit odd that I'm coming full swing back to what started it with my most recent hobby efforts on my mostly defunct blog being the first two miniature games that I played (FASAtrek and HG). After some thought, I think I may have been wrong in that the King Cobra was my first ever model (though it was the "king" of the collection though!). I think the first one was actually the Support Cobra because I remember not having a clue how to assemble that weapons array on the back. #90sN00bProblems
Automatically Appended Next Post: So did anyone here pledge for the RPG? If so, are you willing to post updates on the progress?
I eventually decided against it, mainly due to the lack of a quickstart during the campaign. The little they've shown on their web articles seem to point at a game I'm less interested in than I expected.
Albertorius wrote: I eventually decided against it, mainly due to the lack of a quickstart during the campaign. The little they've shown on their web articles seem to point at a game I'm less interested in than I expected.
So I'm OK with waiting for the regular release.
I assume you'd be getting the PDF if anything then? Is there a preorder crowdfunding discount for the pdf?
Albertorius wrote: I eventually decided against it, mainly due to the lack of a quickstart during the campaign. The little they've shown on their web articles seem to point at a game I'm less interested in than I expected.
So I'm OK with waiting for the regular release.
I assume you'd be getting the PDF if anything then? Is there a preorder crowdfunding discount for the pdf?
Seeing as the pdf was $30, I think not (or the PDF will be very expensive indeed). You did get a couple of free adventures, though, but, again, the focus of those didn't really appeal to me.
warboss wrote: Finally got me a RAFM King Cobra again for the first time in about 20 years. It was the my first tabletop model that I bought (not just for HG but miniatures gaming in general) and I finally got another one to go with my resurrected RAFM collection that I've still yet to paint even a single model of. I suppose now I have no excuse not to assemble a southern force to match my existing Northern one. That way I can sell off my extras as I'd have no excuse not to.
I do not play very often, but i have had the force for years. did a quick 100 point game against South with my CEF. just a couple squads of light and medium tanks. the mediums got a bit to close early on. after they were destroyed the lights backed off an won the day, both had moderate damage but took the southern force down to a single light gear.
It was definitely the best design they had (and in my opinion the only truly good one). The Grizzly was ok too so maybe now that HG(A) is on his radar he'll do that one someday as well.
Looks like the guy added the HGA Jaeger as well for all the Southern players/modellers.
Did anything ever come of that larger scale HGRPG model that was mentioned and/or previewed? What is the status of the most recent iteration of the RPG?
Anyone here do his Patreon and can vouch for the quality of the files? For the biggest scale option it says they're posable, does that mean the printed parts can be posed for assembly, or they are designed to be posed in the STL before printing? I'd love to print out a massive HG kit, but you can never be sure with these things.
warboss wrote: Did anything ever come of that larger scale HGRPG model that was mentioned and/or previewed? What is the status of the most recent iteration of the RPG?
No clue on the first, but I believe the last round of text edits and layout finished up yesterday. Editor hopes to get approval from Rob for a couple test prints, then once those are received, if there's no major fuckups or surprises, it's either approval for a full run or a second set of edits and then the final run.
warboss wrote: Did anything ever come of that larger scale HGRPG model that was mentioned and/or previewed? What is the status of the most recent iteration of the RPG?
No clue on the first, but I believe the last round of text edits and layout finished up yesterday. Editor hopes to get approval from Rob for a couple test prints, then once those are received, if there's no major fuckups or surprises, it's either approval for a full run or a second set of edits and then the final run.
Cool. I fully admit that I didn't follow it too closely so might confuse the various projects with each other.
Prometheum5 wrote: Anyone here do his Patreon and can vouch for the quality of the files? For the biggest scale option it says they're posable, does that mean the printed parts can be posed for assembly, or they are designed to be posed in the STL before printing? I'd love to print out a massive HG kit, but you can never be sure with these things.
I bought his Scopedog, and it's pretty cool. Quite modular, very poseable (default scale a bit big for "28mm", but not too much):
A good samaritan helped me getting hold of the book to take a quick look...
...and I have to say that first impression is not great, just from a visual point.
The layout is very amateurish, most of the new illustrations are... well, competent but not really any good (a lot of the single character archetypes and the like are pretty good, though), and on the whole, coupled with the poor image placement on the document it has made the game lose any sense of visual cohesiveness.
On the readability side, it feels like all the text has just been thrown on the pages without much of a sense for text density or eye flow movement, so it doesn't make for the greatest read... kind of bothersome and makes me tire easy.
I was just yesterday doing layout on a fan translation I've done of Outgunned, an italian action movie RPG, and the difference is very stark on that regard. not only the layout on that one is really great (clean, easy to follow, not too much text just thrown on a page but designed to ease of use and readability) but the cohesiveness of the illustrations and the whole visual aspect of the game is great, and it makes this one looks so much the worse in comparison.
The worst thing? My 2nd edition book looks much better in both regards, and it is a damn shame.
And at the end of the day, there's the change in focus on the game, from "a scifi game in a new, 'realistic' world, wich incidentally has mecha" to "a mecha RPG game in the vein of Mechwarrior or Lancer".
Which really begs the question: how would you sell me this game to use it instead of the Lancer RPG? Because at this moment, that is kind of the gold standard on mecha RPG games.
That's sad to hear about the layout. I know it won't seem noteworthy nowadays but it was a refreshingly modern digital layout for the 90s that was unlike anything I had ever seen from Palladium or TSR at the time. Regarding the focus of the game, for us it was always a mecha rpg game but admittedly we were coming into it from the wargaming side and got into the game specifically for the gears.
Will you be looking at the rules too? I've never played Lancer but I did download it at your recommendation but unfortuantely only found one other person locally interested in trying it out.
No, I don't think I'm the rules have managed to catch my attention, but it might have everything to do with the book being actively unfun to look at.
...and the 160+ pages of table after table of vehicle stats, seemingly lifted straight from the minis game. That feels soul sucking boring to look at,
It is clear I'm not the target for this game. 2nd edition sucked me in with Ghislain's incredible cover art and the setting pages set the deal. This game has not.
But I'm still open to be convinced, so if anyone actually gives it a good read and is familiar with Lancer or even Mechwarrior (this seems much closer to that one), why would you recommend this one over those?
It is clear I'm not the target for this game. 2nd edition sucked me in with Ghislain's incredible cover art and the setting pages set the deal.
I didn't realize you were so new to the fandom as I always had you pegged as a 1st edition guy. Of course, the caveat is that only about two years separated them and that was part of the problem so...
It is clear I'm not the target for this game. 2nd edition sucked me in with Ghislain's incredible cover art and the setting pages set the deal.
I didn't realize you were so new to the fandom as I always had you pegged as a 1st edition guy. Of course, the caveat is that only about two years separated them and that was part of the problem so...
Hehe, yeah, one day I found the spanish edition, just newly released, at my FLGS. I knew nothing about it and bought it just on the strength of the book's presentation (cover/perusing it a bit).
I would not have done that this time around, unfortunately. 2nd edition was sleek, sexy and alluring. 4th looks amateurish, overdone and overstuffed.
I was in the same boat with 1st. I saw the DP9 Gencon advertisement for HG with a hunter in some jungle plants and was hooked. I had seen their prior MechaPress magazines so had high hopes and was impressed when I saw/played it with a friend who also got into it at the same time.
Albertorius wrote: The layout is very amateurish, most of the new illustrations are... well, competent but not really any good
Did we look at the same book? I thought the new art was fantastic. My favorite pieces so far:
Spoiler:
And as for comparing the layout to Lancer, wut? They're both two column lists with sprinkled art. They're the exact same.
Spoiler:
Albertorius wrote: and the 160+ pages of table after table of vehicle stats, seemingly lifted straight from the minis game. That feels soul sucking boring to look at
As opposed to Lancer's 149 pages of table after table of vehicle stats? I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it or anything like that, but your examination of the individual components feels colored by an overall impression.
I don't think I've seen the inside of a Battletech book in ages, I know that game more from decades of random games and word-of-mouth and quick ref sheets. So no opinion on how it compares there. However, in terms of RPG layout and design I have still never found anything as both readable and usable at the table as the Swordfish Island books by Jacob Hurst & Gabriel Hernandez from 2017
Spoiler:
Lancer leans HARD on comp/con, which sucks at an actual table with a bunch of humans in the same room. It's probably great for online play, which I hate.
Albertorius wrote: The layout is very amateurish, most of the new illustrations are... well, competent but not really any good
Did we look at the same book? I thought the new art was fantastic. My favorite pieces so far:
I'm pretty sure we did, and some cool pics does not a good layout make . Those are decent images in and of themselves, but many clash harshly with the old Ghislain's art, which it retains.
Also, you have a lot like these:
Spoiler:
which, to quote myself:
are... well, competent but not really any good
and I stand by it. They're... ok? But these ones clash even more harshly with Ghislain's art, which is still the majority, and makes for a very disjointed art style overall.
Albertorius wrote: and the 160+ pages of table after table of vehicle stats, seemingly lifted straight from the minis game. That feels soul sucking boring to look at
As opposed to Lancer's 149 pages of table after table of vehicle stats? I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it or anything like that, but your examination of the individual components feels colored by an overall impression.
Important difference here? All of those pages are meant for the player, and are for the player, meaning that a) they are not useable as GM opponents, because the game is designed specifically for GM stuff to use GM rules, and 2) they look like this:
(player side)
Spoiler:
(GM side)
Spoiler:
...instead of this (both GM and player side):
Spoiler:
So, not only they're providing information tailored for the target (player or GM), with actually useful information there, clearly color-coded for ease of reference, they also provide with a whole lot more of setting information... instead of being, you know, tables of just stats directly lifted from the wargame that, being as far as I know free already, could just have been referenced as "go check this free book with all the stats".
And as for comparing the layout to Lancer, wut? They're both two column lists with sprinkled art. They're the exact same.
Spoiler:
No, sorry, they're absolutely not, and what you've just said is just about the only thing they have in common. Lancer has a very thorough "lay it out for ease of reference" ethos on the book, with stuff like color-coded rules parts, very clearly diferentiated titling and page flow, all the while making sure the pages have whitespace enough so that the text "breathes" and don't make the book lok cluttered, and a strict style guide so that everything is always done the same way and looks the same way, different from all other things:
Spoiler:
I know this because I have actually translated the whole book into spanish and have had to lay it out, using the above style guide.
The one good thing I can say about HG's layout is the chapter colored pages for ease of reference. That's a nice point, slightly devalued by having 17 different chapters ^^.
I don't think I've seen the inside of a Battletech book in ages, I know that game more from decades of random games and word-of-mouth and quick ref sheets. So no opinion on how it compares there. However, in terms of RPG layout and design I have still never found anything as both readable and usable at the table as the Swordfish Island books by Jacob Hurst & Gabriel Hernandez from 2017
Spoiler:
Lancer leans HARD on comp/con, which sucks at an actual table with a bunch of humans in the same room. It's probably great for online play, which I hate.
Can't say that I have seen those books, so I have nothing to say about them one way or another ^^.
Comp/con is pretty nice, yes, and we (I) actually use it to run combats on the table (I don't play online but I've been GMing a live campaign for a year and a half now), and it's a great help... but the book is absolutely a godsend to reference information in game, and I'd have no problems not using it (I mostly keep track of damage and the like, the rest is as easily referencable in the book as on comp/con)
Let's leave it at two layers of spaghetti posting, but I'm up to talk more.
Color doesn't inherently make anything easier to use, and the amount in Lancer I think actually detracts from its usability. Far too noisy. The different GM and player views are a system choice, which yeah, these two games are very differently designed. There's no good reason HG should have a different entry for the GM than the player. The reason it has the list of units instead of just saying "go buy use a PDF or buy another book" is because it's meant to be a single volume reference.
And the vast majority of the Lancer rules are absolutely 2 column basic ass text, which you should know.
I detest any electronics at the table, I find they ruin the whole roleplaying experience one and all. I have not run Lancer, but I played in a couple games without CompCon, and was not very impressed with it.
HudsonD wrote:You know the ironic thing there ?
DP9's HG layout was excellent when it was first released, and quite above what people were used to at the time.
Still is! Readability is fantastic in the 2nd edition books:
Spoiler:
They're also really stylish, and have a really good, coherent overall look. I think the B/W actually helps the book.
IMHO, the new book is some steps down from that, which makes sense on the whole, as I understand they have lost all their old institutional knowledge (the colored page ends for ease of finding the chapter in the new book are a nice addition, though):
Spoiler:
slyphic wrote:Let's leave it at two layers of spaghetti posting, but I'm up to talk more.
Color doesn't inherently make anything easier to use, and the amount in Lancer I think actually detracts from its usability. Far too noisy. The different GM and player views are a system choice, which yeah, these two games are very differently designed. There's no good reason HG should have a different entry for the GM than the player. The reason it has the list of units instead of just saying "go buy use a PDF or buy another book" is because it's meant to be a single volume reference.
And the vast majority of the Lancer rules are absolutely 2 column basic ass text, which you should know.
I detest any electronics at the table, I find they ruin the whole roleplaying experience one and all. I have not run Lancer, but I played in a couple games without CompCon, and was not very impressed with it.
Colors, well used, absolutely help with readability for most people. Colors, used consistently, very much more so.
There's no good reason for HG to have separate player and GM entries because the game has decided it so... but there's also no need whatsoever to have all the vehicles of the game in the corebook, including full on landships or stratospheric bombers either. Lack of vehicles in the core book was not any kind of problem with HG, with just the five basic polar models. We did have the VCS, though, which meant it was infinitely more versatile. And as far as I understand, those stats are in the free wargame rules anyway, are they not?
Half the Lancer book is 2 columns "basic ass" text... the difference is how it uses it, and how much of the page leaves free, and the spacing, and the actual differentiation between text sections. As I should know.
I'd say the manage to use those 2 basic ass text columns to give an airier, easier to read spread, without too much text per page, with enough white space, without the need to cram multiple images per page spread and with better defined sections:
Spoiler:
I hae GMed Lancer with and without comp/con, and it runs perfectly well in both cases, each combat a little puzzle that the players have to beat.
It's not like the new art is bad, some of it is actually quite good, the mixing of styles on a single section is quite jarring however, as seen on pages 120-121.
There's no question the 2023 layout is pretty basic compared to original HG.
HudsonD wrote: It's not like the new art is bad, some of it is actually quite good, the mixing of styles on a single section is quite jarring however, as seen on pages 120-121.
There's no question the 2023 layout is pretty basic compared to original HG.
Five separate images and three different drawing styles on that spread ^^
The 2e book is a better layout for sure. Excellent books. They understood the benefit of a restrained use of color.
The vehicle entries are not 1:1 copies from the wargame. They share many stats, but they are not the same. Different levels of abstraction.
Spoiler:
I don't know how else to say it, but lancer and the 4e book, the actual sections explaining rules, the minor differences in textual layout I'm not finding impactful at all. They have more commonality than differences.
The other book I've been reading/doing layout on this week has been the Outgunned RPG corebook, from the small italian company Two Little Mice, and it's glorious, and single column, and small format:
slyphic wrote: The 2e book is a better layout for sure. Excellent books. They understood the benefit of a restrained use of color.
The vehicle entries are not 1:1 copies from the wargame. They share many stats, but they are not the same. Different levels of abstraction.
[spoiler]
I don't know how else to say it, but lancer and the 4e book, the actual sections explaining rules, the minor differences in textual layout I'm not finding impactful at all. They have more commonality than differences.
I agree to disagree on that, as to me they look absolutely like night and day. I find them greatly impactful for reading comprehension and for being able to read it without getting tired.
As to the stats, it mostly looks like the RPG books have the stats without the pilot baked in, except for the HI (RPG) H/S (wargame)
I still think that having all the vehicles of the whole franchise in the corebook is very, VERY overkill.
EDIT: Sorry, I answered before you edited... I'm gonna spoiler my original answer.
Yeah, I love small format books, Not only they are really convenient and impose some heavy limits on how you can do stuff (which actually is good for creativity) but they also look great on tablets and the like.
slyphic wrote: Strips out the 'average pilot' that's used in HGB and gives variables for controls, adds traits that don't appear at the HGB level, incorporates hardpoints for customization.
I don't understand how you can complain about 150 pages in a 480 page book covering all the vehicles is a problem while holding up 150 pages of a 430 page book that has all the units in it as a counterexample.
I guess because those are 1) much less dense in text, 2) have setting info blurbs for all the thingamabobs they add and 3) are player focused rules of things the players are supposed to use by default, instead of every vehicle under the sun like landships or attack helicopters.
In essence, those pages are player material, look good, have gorgeous illustrations, are easy to reference during a game and are exclusively for the players to waddle through, while the HG vehicles are mostly GM material, much harder on the eyes, and almost devoid of setting information.
Gah xD. Let's agree to disagree and that's that ^^
slyphic wrote:Did we look at the same book? I thought the new art was fantastic. My favorite pieces so far:
Spoiler:
I'm a little late to the discussion but here it goes anyways. Insert "Beauty is in the eye/Art is subjective" disclaimers here. That said, I think the second one is actually decent whereas the tactical booty diorama not so much.
Albertorius wrote:I'm pretty sure we did, and some cool pics does not a good layout make . Those are decent images in and of themselves, but many clash harshly with the old Ghislain's art, which it retains.
Also, you have a lot like these:
Spoiler:
Oof. That reminds me of low budget indie midling quality comic art. I've seen people comment negatively on Ghislain's art in modern times and I don't think I'm able to judge it without my nostalgia bias but the simplicity he sometimes showed in certain images was much better than in those and it had the massive benefit of being cohesive throughout the books.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albertorius wrote: The other book I've been reading/doing layout on this week has been the Outgunned RPG corebook, from the small italian company Two Little Mice, and it's glorious, and single column, and small format:
Spoiler:
For me, that's great for a modern rules light layout rpg though I wouldn't prefer it for something in the more moderately crunchy tier of RPGs. I wouldn't expect it to win any awards (assuming there is such a thing in the Ennies or somesuch) though but it is perfectly serviceable and easy on the eyes. One of many things that indicated to me that I'm old now is when I looked at Mork Borg and almost got a headache trying to follow along with the minimal rules/text, lol. Easy on the eyes is important to me now!
I only got into HG over the last six years or so. No nostalgia here. I have come to really love Ghislain Barbe’s art, but for me it was an acquired taste.
Golden Gear submission deadline pushed back to November 30th. Saw that post about 4 hours after I submitted the third attempt to make my minis not look like gak for it. Turns out, giving my incompetent self a better camera and lighting conditions doesn't make a huge difference, but still a noticeable one. I threw in for all four categories, actually had valid models for each from the last year, but I only think I have any kind of shot in Group and Custom.
Realistically, if I had waited a day and saw the deadline push, I would have done the exact same thing but later producing the same inept photos, but I can't shake the feeling I messed it up.
I mean, first I have to actually successfully take a better picture. I'd look a hell of a putz if I asked and then came back all "um, so, just use the first ones I submitted."
I've asked the chat at my local place if anyone knows cameras and would be willing to help me.
Soooooooooo I've been off Terra Nova for a few cycles now, but I just stumbled across the Gear Up blog and there is TONS of fiction, content, all sorts of stuff. Even characters from the 1st Black Talon being used! Is the new RPG - I don't want to ask if it's "good" - is the story faithful? Not to whatever the original original was going to be, but at least the spirit and style?
Short answer is yes. The people working on it are fans of the original RPG, more interested in continuing it than remaking it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to follow up, I took two honorable mentions from the Golden Gear competition, and not for the models I thought would place. Scored enough store credit for a pack of Iguanas.
Firebreak wrote: Soooooooooo I've been off Terra Nova for a few cycles now, but I just stumbled across the Gear Up blog and there is TONS of fiction, content, all sorts of stuff. Even characters from the 1st Black Talon being used! Is the new RPG - I don't want to ask if it's "good" - is the story faithful? Not to whatever the original original was going to be, but at least the spirit and style?
Can't really say much about the writing or if they've made changes to the setting stuff (although I've been told the NuCoal origin has been mostly changed).
For the most part, the game seems to focus on stuff I'm not interested in, like unending lists of vehicles, and the layout itself proved to be too much of a burden for a game I found out was not that interested in at the moment.
I'm more interested in the forthcoming adventures and settings books than in the literal rules and vehicle guide that is the big 4e core book, in particular one set during the St. Vincent War.
NuCoal had a massive rewrite in 2011 during the Locked & Loaded rules era in a book called 'Perfect Storm'. The whole L&L era contradicted a bunch of earlier material and was taking the game in some odd directions. The current line editor and writers are more interested in ignoring that edition and making sure future books are usable with the original 90s books for the RPG.
slyphic wrote: I'm more interested in the forthcoming adventures and settings books than in the literal rules and vehicle guide that is the big 4e core book, in particular one set during the St. Vincent War.
NuCoal had a massive rewrite in 2011 during the Locked & Loaded rules era in a book called 'Perfect Storm'. The whole L&L era contradicted a bunch of earlier material and was taking the game in some odd directions. The current line editor and writers are more interested in ignoring that edition and making sure future books are usable with the original 90s books for the RPG.
The Perfect Storm fluff is... something. I already ranted extensively about it back in the day.
Basically yes. The last year was a fairly steady feed of articles expanding Blitz with new units and formations, interspersed with a whole series of stories about what happened at New Jerusalem. It was quiet for a while during the final crunch for the 4e RPG, but it's started up again.
Seeing the Shadow of Gomorrah made me very, very happy. Carlie lives!! Not sure about the protagonist of HGII piloting a Dark Mamba, though. Godless Southerners...
Let me know what you think of the files... and obviously post the obligatory pics when you print it! Are you going to print multiple scales? RAFM, 28mm, Blitz, and even 6mm/epic scale whose name I can't recall?
edit: I like that he included a variety of weapons. I don't recall if he did that with the previous HG models. Hopefully you'll have a Kodiak Destroyer build available. Also, just doiing a quick search for Kodiak got me this link that I wasn't previously aware of. I like the new variants.
edit 2: Ok, it's been a long while since I really looked at their site. I know it was mentioned above that Gear Up has changed and it does look like they're really trying to keep things updated. In some of the gear variant articles, there's alot of new art in pre-Blitz styles. Are they just recoloring old art with new colors/shading or making completely new images of older models of gears for the RPG? I guess I just got used to only new releases getting a single piece of art back in the day.
The 4e book has a ton of new art in it, but also a lot of colorized older art. The artist they hired posted a few of hid pieces for the book throughout last year on his personal site. https://www.astray3.com/2023/11/18/its-a-mecha-beach-party/
Cool and thanks! Looks good. Is the book side publishing more focused now (again) on the RPG moreso than the wargame with its free living rules or is there a premium more new art filled version of the latter as well?
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Albertorius wrote: Got the files yesterday and they look nice, for the moment, not sure about the presupported files, though.
Is the book side publishing more focused now (again) on the RPG moreso than the wargame with its free living rules or is there a premium more new art filled version of the latter as well
The pod is pretty focused on the RPG at the moment, but intends to interweave releases after they get a few adventures and setting guides out for the RPG. They're planning to release a new faction and model range for the wargame sometime in the next 12 months, and continue filling out some of the shallower factions with new models. Plus the rolling metal-to-3DP conversion. No STLs, at least not full models. Sounds like we might get conversion bits though.
Rob, like everyone I talked to last Reapercon that casts models, seems extremely confident that STL sales is just not a viable business model compared to physical figures due to limited demand and rampant piracy.
I'm ambivalent on that... at the very least, Rob should be aware that their sales are going to be heavily limited to North America, as current shipping costs on top of DP9's high prices for the market conspire against HG selling much at all in Europe, for example.
So maybe they at least should think about oursourcing 3d manufacturing so that it would be possible to buy local (or more local). Aditionally, I'm pretty confident that nowadays I can print minis more detailed than their current metals/plastics.
Spoiler:
That said... I'm more interested in Gears at different scales, like the above Kodiak, as I don't play anymore but still love the designs. AND I will not pay up to a hundred bucks for a unit box.
They've got some pretty fine detail on the Aller redesign. Take a look at the cockpit area. It's a bit disappointing many of the initial printed gears are stealth models, so they are deliberately smooth surface and low greeble.
slyphic wrote: They've got some pretty fine detail on the Aller redesign. Take a look at the cockpit area. It's a bit disappointing many of the initial printed gears are stealth models, so they are deliberately smooth surface and low greeble.
I can assure, anything they print I can print it too ^^
Ditto, but also kinda irrelevant to their point. I've got piles of 10mm fantasy and 6mm SF stuff that are exquisitely detailed, a whole lot of terrain for HG as well. The detail on my skaven are great, but I'm doing them in a slightly deliberately slapdash style that doesn't show it well.
I think I went through 5 kilos of resin last year. Did some pieces for a friend of these super-fine and spindly moth-men that are to date the most delicate model I've ever seen in person. And not even brittle; ABS-like is great stuff.
None of this matters to the realities of income from models vs STLs.
Ditto, but also kinda irrelevant to their point. None of this matters to the realities of income from models vs STLs.
The point was about localized printing because anyone from outside North America is pretty much fethed, due to the double whammy of import taxes, regular taxes and taxes on inernational shipments, PLUS the absolutely bonkers current international shipping prices coming from the USA and Canada, which all in all would triple or more the regular pricing.
If they have stls, even if only for that, they'd be able to outsource manufacturing (printing) to a local address, which would allow buying DP9 stuff at something approaching sane prices.
Which has nothing to do with stls for sale as the ones they did for Gear Krieg, which is what interest me, but if they are against it, no skin off my nose, many other fishes in the sea.
Man i do not get this game out enough. forgot a bunch of rules that cost me the game, but we still had fun.
He brought loads of light gears to back up a few big hitter to face off against my smaller elite CEF force.
he started out pretty strong with the combat shields saving 2 gears with re-rolls.
My tanks really turned it around taking him down to 3 light gears at the end. the problem was i forgot my tanks were agile so i was taking extra damage when i shouldn't have on MOS zero AP weapons.
Been working on a small Northern force for Heavy Gear. Going with a pink granite scheme. Here's a WIP of some Antelopes (still need to add texture paint, varnish and decals).
Tried out some ECM equipped frames in tonight's battle.
My CEF force faced off against a southern force at 150 points on a 6X4 table.
This time i decided to leave the infantry at home and went with an all mechanized force. the extra dice from the ECM really helped out. while i managed to take out a third of his force for the loss of 2 of my tanks. he managed to squeak out a win by 1 point on objectives.
While i was tied up in another game i let a regular in our group borrow my CEF force at 150 points facing off against a southern force.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I got a game in later testing out my sub list tank company with type 68 tanks mounting HPAs, it was a pretty brutal left push. i only lost 2 tanks and i managed to tie him on objectives in the end.
I initially planned to paint 4 of these, but the Blitz! 3.1 rules basically only allow 2 of each variant in a squad, so I'm probably going to swap the 2 I didn't paint over to snub cannon Razorbacks.
Also, a FDM building that I painted. I got a big pile of buildings off Etsy for pretty cheap, and they were advertised as 6-8mm scale, so I bought them for Battletech (and hopefully my Mercenaries pledge will ship soon). But look at that ladder, that's 15mm scale. But I need buildings for Heavy Gear too, so whatever.
I decided to try mounting some PRDF Shinobi on 32mm rounds. This is half the squad. I had some unpainted Shinobi hanging about on 40mm and they really benefited from switch, even if I had to carve slots into the bases.
The Shinobi with the vibrorapier doesn't have a power sword effect, his sword is just painted green for camo purposes.
I'm still haven't chosen a texture paint for the bases. My old PRDF basing used a lot of painted sand and I've really come to hate painting sand, texture paint is IMHO very worth the money.
Once I finish the Shinobi I'll probably do some of the newer PRDF gears (Argos, Greyhound, Spartan) and I have a frankly unhealthy amount of striders in my 'to do' list.
So... it seems that DP9 has decided to dip their toes into the digital realm, and has started selling STL files for 3d printing on DrivethruRPG.
The problem is... that out of everything they have, they seem to have decided to start with the least detailed, least interesting, least appealing stuff... recreating their resin scenery basically point for point (if not lessening the details) for their files:
The first batch, even though it states that's for resin printing, has almost no detail whatsoever that would need any kind of resin printing (those will print perfectly enough in fdm):
At the scale of HG, these are mostly underwhelming and underdetailed.
At least the second batch of sets are stoneheads, which are very much a HG staple... but they have decided to make them completely smooth, with no rock texture whatsoever (a big disappointed, as that would have been cool for a resin print). But at least they're more interesting and evocative:
(this one has at least a bit of texture... not on the heads, of course, on the rest >_>:
All in all, so far pretty underwhelming, particularly for the asking price, which seems quite above market averages, and for the shown quality, which is not great.
C'mon, DP9, I want to buy your digital stuff. Make an effort, please? Also, Gears! 28mm Gears, please!
Seriously, if you're able to release stuff at this level, I'd buy a shitton
C'mon, DP9, I want to buy your digital stuff. Make an effort, please? Also, Gears! 28mm Gears, please!
28mm gears would be lovely for painting projects, especially if they were posable. I'd buy them pre-printed, given DP9 is already 3D printing some of their gears for sale.
HGB is a game that caught my attention, the battletech I wanted to play, cool minis, interesting rules, lore, but unfortunately I live in Europe, and there's no distribution here. Buying from their site from Canada is super expensive, so...
John Prins wrote: I decided to try mounting some PRDF Shinobi on 32mm rounds. This is half the squad. I had some unpainted Shinobi hanging about on 40mm and they really benefited from switch, even if I had to carve slots into the bases.
The Shinobi with the vibrorapier doesn't have a power sword effect, his sword is just painted green for camo purposes.
I'm still haven't chosen a texture paint for the bases. My old PRDF basing used a lot of painted sand and I've really come to hate painting sand, texture paint is IMHO very worth the money.
Once I finish the Shinobi I'll probably do some of the newer PRDF gears (Argos, Greyhound, Spartan) and I have a frankly unhealthy amount of striders in my 'to do' list.
Nice work! I know I'm a bit late to the party but figured I'd chime in anyways. I'm always amazed when people can competently and consistently do the quartered rocket tips. At my current age and eyesight (as compared to when I started with HG back in 1994), I'm even amazed someone can simply see them clearly with the naked eye!
Nice work! I know I'm a bit late to the party but figured I'd chime in anyways. I'm always amazed when people can competently and consistently do the quartered rocket tips. At my current age and eyesight (as compared to when I started with HG back in 1994), I'm even amazed someone can simply see them clearly with the naked eye!
Dude I use a magnifying visor these days. And my rocket quartering is worse than 10 years ago.
After 12 years, a new Mekong Dominion mini. This one's a Hooded Cobra. It's a variant on the King Cobra, but the original version of this gear had a different torso configuration, which matches the Python's torso. So I decided to make a conversion rather than just do a weapon swap on the King Cobra.
After 12 years I had to figure out which paints I used, because this was prior to me bluebooking my paint schemes.
warboss wrote: Very nice work as always! Do you get the opportunity to play much? If so, has the current edition/plastics helped in that regard out of curiosity?
No, I haven't had much play time. Some of my friends were into Heavy Gear years ago (they even backed the Kickstarter for the plastics) but one is basically too busy with family and work and the other is too hobby butterfly and more of a Battletech player. I want to get some games going at the FLGS to attract new players, so I'm building some terrain and painting up some minis to keep my interest aligned. I should probably just speedpaint some plastics to have a red/blue opps force for demos or something.
I was one of the few backers that got their TerraForms terrain, so I'm finally getting off my butt and building it...
I actually managed to use all the pieces to make 6 compounds. I'll save the more 'urban' stuff for later, though I am tempted to build the nuclear plant.
Jus saw the Pod has added a couple new vehicles to their STL offerings. Nice!
...they're still asking a bit too much for what are very basic designs on a REALLY competitive market (although, again, much better than the truck, and with an added cheaper bundle for both), but it's a step in the right direction IMHO, particularly with the recent... economic climate, let's say.
OTOH? The Murdock/Seeker and the Nightingale are also VERY Heavy Gear designs, distinct and interesting. Would love to see the Barnaby and the Behemoth done this way... particularly if they do it a bit better and a bit more detailed ^^.
...they're actually better than the current official STLs. Man, that's sad in a way xD
Thanks! That damocles and all my other stuff, such as the hunter commando EW conversion are all free on my cult's page
I've just been making replacement HG weapons and heads for my own collection and sharing them online for about a month because I recently opened up my huge backlog of metal HG minis and found a ton of mismolded weapons and heads I didn't like. (sadly I didn't get into South or Nucoal so won't be making a lot of parts for those lol)
There's something about DP9's 3d designs that don't jive with me. The plastics and their recent gear designs feel static, lacking any of the motion or soul of the minimaniak sculpts. It also baffles me that despite going to 3d printing they don't appear to put a large focus on headsculpts as can be seen in the new wolf and Panda gears. The head is a huge focal point of the gear and with 3d printing I was hoping they'd return to the more complex head geometry that the metals have, at least better than what a total amateur (me) with a month of actual 3d modelling experience can make
I definitely agree. The transition to the line of plastics from the Le Clerc metals reminded me most of the transition from the RAFM models to the tactical scale in that, while technically accurate, lost most of the artistic flare and felt more asthetically soulless. It's not that those other lines were perfect by any means as they had plenty of room for improvement but they had a charm/flare that didn't translate over well unfortunately.
I do understand that part of this is by necessity to make an only two part small mould for the plastics that gives options for (limited and stilted) poseability within those constraints as opposed to a single more dynamic post.
...they're actually better than the current official STLs. Man, that's sad in a way xD
Thanks! That damocles and all my other stuff, such as the hunter commando EW conversion are all free on my cult's page
Oh that's excellent. Cheers
I've just been making replacement HG weapons and heads for my own collection and sharing them online for about a month because I recently opened up my huge backlog of metal HG minis and found a ton of mismolded weapons and heads I didn't like. (sadly I didn't get into South or Nucoal so won't be making a lot of parts for those lol)
Mould issues and slippage has always been a problem with DP9 metals >_>
There's something about DP9's 3d designs that don't jive with me. The plastics and their recent gear designs feel static, lacking any of the motion or soul of the minimaniak sculpts. It also baffles me that despite going to 3d printing they don't appear to put a large focus on headsculpts as can be seen in the new wolf and Panda gears. The head is a huge focal point of the gear and with 3d printing I was hoping they'd return to the more complex head geometry that the metals have, at least better than what a total amateur (me) with a month of actual 3d modelling experience can make
IMHO is a combination of poor sculpting quality (you can absolutely do dynamic, detailed and inspiring stuff on 3d... hell, you could 1:1 all the old Ghislaine's illustrations if you so chose... and I'd buy TONS of those... but you gotta know how) and unappealing renders, which make them even worse looking. That and, as you say, really, REALLY simple stuff, when you can go whole hog with them and know that the printers are more than good enough to render it all.
And it's not like HG is particularly hard to sculpt, you know... even if you want to be accurate.
Other people manage, after all:
And yeah, I bought that one. Because it's amazing and because I still love HG, despite everything.
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warboss wrote: I definitely agree. The transition to the line of plastics from the Le Clerc metals reminded me most of the transition from the RAFM models to the tactical scale in that, while technically accurate, lost most of the artistic flare and felt more asthetically soulless. It's not that those other lines were perfect by any means as they had plenty of room for improvement but they had a charm/flare that didn't translate over well unfortunately.
I do understand that part of this is by necessity to make an only two part small mould for the plastics that gives options for (limited and stilted) poseability within those constraints as opposed to a single more dynamic post.
I would have bought that for plastics, up to a point (again, other manufacturers manage, so it's more of a knowledge problem). And we did point out the problems and possible solutios for them during the KS, just to be shut down and be called an "agitator".
But for STLs for 3d printing? There's simply no excuse to be that... let's call it minimalistic.
And it's not like HG is particularly hard to sculpt, you know... even if you want to be accurate.
Other people manage, after all:
Spoiler:
And yeah, I bought that one. Because it's amazing and because I still love HG, despite everything.
I don't think it was your explicit intent but those two pics kind of remind me of the what you ordered/what you got meme in terms of 3d sculpting and HG. The bottom unposed pic really does remind me of the polar gear plastics unfortunately. :( Caprice being the obvious exception to the above comments as usual though...
I mean, that sculpt is accurate to the lineart ^^. But it's also poseable, and detailed, and works pretty well. It also has a fully posed one if you don't wanna bother:
Would I prefer something more like the old illustrations? well, sure, but that one? That one's good design.
Plus, the plastics (specifically the polar ones from the first KS) had the additional problems of 1) legs posing started below the skirts, so the poses were,,, weird, and 2) they decided to do negatives of the details for the shoulders and stuff, because that was easier (and well, general lack of detail)
Albertorius wrote: I mean, that sculpt is accurate to the lineart ^^. But it's also poseable, and detailed, and works pretty well. It also has a fully posed one if you don't wanna bother:
Would I prefer something more like the old illustrations? well, sure, but that one? That one's good design.
Plus, the plastics (specifically the polar ones from the first KS) had the additional problems of 1) legs posing started below the skirts, so the poses were,,, weird, and 2) they decided to do negatives of the details for the shoulders and stuff, because that was easier (and well, general lack of detail)
Ah man I'm still bitter about that. It's actually what made me take a break from HG back then >_<
I don't get why the murdock looks kinda squished from front to back. When you compare it to the art it doesn't look right
Duymon wrote: Thanks! That damocles and all my other stuff, such as the hunter commando EW conversion are all free on [url=https://cults3d.com/en/users/Duymon/3d-models]my cult's page[/url
Checked your Cults page, man, fantastic work
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Duymon wrote: Ah man I'm still bitter about that. It's actually what made me take a break from HG back then >_<
I don't get why the murdock looks kinda squished from front to back. When you compare it to the art it doesn't look right
...yeah I got nothing. But it's a recurring issue... the final sculpts don't really look like the images
Duymon wrote: I don't get why the murdock looks kinda squished from front to back. When you compare it to the art it doesn't look right
It's something in the render screenshot. The Saker had the exact same problem when they previewed it - looked way too short, like a light pickup truck with smooshed face. But the actual physical model looks just fine.
Albertorius wrote: I mean, that sculpt is accurate to the lineart ^^. But it's also poseable, and detailed, and works pretty well. It also has a fully posed one if you don't wanna bother:
I agree... but my point was rather that the lack of posing is reminiscent of the possibilities of the current plastics which tend to be very static due to the lack of ball joints in particular leading to limb poses only in two directions without converting. It wasn't a criticism at all of Extra Guy and his work which I think is great!
warboss wrote: I agree... but my point was rather that the lack of posing is reminiscent of the possibilities of the current plastics which tend to be very static due to the lack of ball joints in particular leading to limb poses only in two directions without converting. It wasn't a criticism at all of Extra Guy and his work which I think is great!
Ah, gotcha ^^
Yeah... to say that the plastics were hugely disappointing would be... putting it very mildly. But the writing was on the wall as soon as the Pod decided that any criticism was stealing food from their mouths, so...
Anyways, here's hoping Extraguy does more HG stuff, like for example classic versions of the Hunter/Jäger instead of the videogame ones >_>
But, again? I'd love for the Pod to get their gak together and produce good STLs of stuff I'd like to buy ^^, and with the current... let's call it economic climate, it makes more sense than ever, to me.
I think the only hope is that one of us wins the megasuperuberlotto and buys him out when he's ready to retire. At least then the worst case scenario is that we'll still screw it up but at least in a new way and with good intentions. I don't think incremental changes are really going to move the needle much but I'm admittedly as salty as the Dead Sea by this point so...
Unrelated.... but very related, I just printed a set of minis from the Fragged Empire RPG IP (now the creator has a Patreon where tey're releasing STLs of their old KS minis and new ones)
Spoiler:
Given the staggering amount of really cool HG character illustrations that pepper the pages of the old HGRPG... how the hell does the Pod has yet to do something, anything, with them?
Boggles the mind, really... I think they could find enough of a market for a Patreon with this kind of stuff, even for people only interested in more "generic" scifi RPG/skirmish games... ah well :(
Given the staggering amount of really cool HG character illustrations that pepper the pages of the old HGRPG... how the hell does the Pod has yet to do something, anything, with them?
Boggles the mind, really... I think they could find enough of a market for a Patreon with this kind of stuff, even for people only interested in more "generic" scifi RPG/skirmish games... ah well :(
It kills me that Infinity can have TAGs and mecha-tanks but we never got 28mm Heavy Gear.
Given the staggering amount of really cool HG character illustrations that pepper the pages of the old HGRPG... how the hell does the Pod has yet to do something, anything, with them?
Boggles the mind, really... I think they could find enough of a market for a Patreon with this kind of stuff, even for people only interested in more "generic" scifi RPG/skirmish games... ah well :(
It kills me that Infinity can have TAGs and mecha-tanks but we never got 28mm Heavy Gear.
"DP9 3D print STL parts files are for use with high resolution resin 3D printers for best results. They were test printed on an Elegoo Saturn 8K Printer by the 3D Modeler. And may not work on a filament printer due to the very small detial size."
In addition to the typo (seriously, it's not that much text guys, at least check it), there's... not a lot of detail on that. I'm pretty sure it will be A-OK, particularly if they also have a closed version of the model.
Anyways, 15 bucks for it feels a bit on the high side, for what it is.
Next release is the Dark Jaguar. With this being the 3rd dark metal being remade in 3d I guess we can expect Dark warrior, mamba, cheetah and skirmisher down the line
Yeah, the scale is an instant turn off for me as I'd prefer 10-15mm infantry with mech suits that scale to that to match (for both model size and cost savings). Obviously if you're 3d printing models then it's trivial to resize them but not for the terrain if necessary. I blame HG for this blatant bias on my part!
warboss wrote: Maybe Smilodon's favorite variant, the Rally Mammoth Sport, will have a digital release next April 1st!
If there's a general art direction for it I could always just make custom rally legs and throw them up on my cults since it would be just a fan-made variant.
I appreciate the response but it was just a joke (hence the April Fool's date) that a previous dev for HG used to make about the Mammoth. I regret never asking him though if it was a convertible too...
. It's either that or you distribute your weight as evenly as you can and move the vertical thrusters to put them as far away from the others as you possible can to try and generate lift, and you put the weight below the thrust. That's why most (all) the 4-fans drones are as they are, and even the Gravity jetpack follows just about the same form factor instead of strapping thrusters to your legs. This guy is umbalanced as all heck and horribly top heavy. And then there's the lance, of course. hell, even
Their search/filter functions are...less than impressive though.
