Seeing the Ankh display case moves it up for me. This miniatures are SICK. Looks like they wanted to compete a little more with Mythic Battles on god sculpts.
First they've got to get through this Trudvang campaign. It's sad. Doesn't look bad, the initial buy- in is reasonable with current stretch goals included, (and not commenting on shipping costs) , but this has been seriously hemorrhaging both backers and money.
Pretty sure at one point they'd surpassed the 1.150k goal but it's lost about 20k since then.
Maybe once GenCon is over they'll do something about it? I've never seen one of their campaigns spiral like this before.
HATE had some moments where it took some dips I remember, but I can't think of another CMON campaign that's shot up quickly and started to sag back down. They've still got time to right things....
highlord tamburlaine wrote: First they've got to get through this Trudvang campaign. It's sad. Doesn't look bad, the initial buy- in is reasonable with current stretch goals included, (and not commenting on shipping costs) , but this has been seriously hemorrhaging both backers and money.
Pretty sure at one point they'd surpassed the 1.150k goal but it's lost about 20k since then.
Maybe once GenCon is over they'll do something about it? I've never seen one of their campaigns spiral like this before.
It's passed the 150k mark at least 4 times the past week so it's been yo-yoing quite a lot but pretty much took a free fall yesterday as it's down over 10k now. Backer wise it still has more the HATE, ASOIAF, pretty much most things that aren't zombiecide related or area control which is why I think CMoN got greedy with their stretch goals and killed the momentum. Pretty conflicted as I really want to the game but with ANKH and Defiance this winter as well as Monolith Conan coming back to KSer in January that's a lot of things back-to-back that I'll need to save up for. Conan might be the cheapest since it's a 1.5 reprint with only a few new things from the sounds of it and I got the vast majority in the first one. I've dropped all the non-gameplay addons as the art book just looks like a reprint of the one I've had and CMoN has ignored all questions from people asking if it's different which leaves me to believe it's the same as you think they'd want to entice Bonner fans for a new book with just a simple 'yes' and I've never cared about upgraded tokens.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Solomon Kane had quite some dips, but never as bad as this one.
Yeah, and Mythic worked really hard to show why all the cardboard was worth backers' money.
CMON just doesn't seem to really care. I wonder if this campaign is the peak for FOMO mega projects from established companies. It seems like a number of recent big profile projects have struggled more and more, leading to Trudvang whose backer count has been steadily sliding despite massive interest in the beginning.
I also think that shipping is playing a major part here, up to bloodborne USA based CMON backer paid substantially less for it that those that lived elsewhere,
but with Bloodborne that seemed to change and they ended up paying much closer to the actual cost of shipping (which wasn't communicated well during the actual KS generating lots of anger)
so now we get Trudvang which does admit the shipping is going to be a realistic number and I think a fair few of the US folk who've been backing anything CMON and depending on selling them on if they don't like them (or buying 2 and flipping one to try and pay for the other) have been scared off.
Wow, this should drop below a million before the end of the day. Hope CMoN has something awesome planned as just posting a link to a youtube video of someone's review clearly isn't helping.
They've apparently been in meetings about it all day now people are back from gencon (according to their collaborator in the comments) and have a plan for something impressive late tomorrow
but I fear it's basically too late a lot of those who've gone aren't going to be back
but I suppose if the toss in a bunch of extra stuff (a la Mantic with a staled project) they'll ensure people don't drop out early next time anticipating the next give away
Big oof Trudvang campaign
Is buckets of nice plastic miniatures sold 1.5 years in advance to CMON what well sculpted original aesthetic metals was to Rackham? Only time will tell. It is important to keep in mind that they are still over a million dollars... For now.
I feel sorry for people with an emotional connection to the setting who can't wait for some great Trudvang minis. I really felt your pain during the Solomon Kane campaign and it is no fun.
> Is buckets of nice plastic miniatures sold 1.5 years in advance to CMON what well sculpted original aesthetic metals was to Rackham?
I thought Rackham's mistake was entering the prepaint market from the unpainted metal one?
> I feel sorry for people with an emotional connection to the setting who can't wait for some great Trudvang minis.
Trudvang wouldn't have been possible through traditional retail, so I don't. The chart looks bad because of all that red, but, at over $1M, this KS is still doing better than other CMON KS that weren't meant to be blockbusters.
Still, CMON needs to show that they listen to backers, not require a minor revolt to take action.
ced1106 wrote: > Is buckets of nice plastic miniatures sold 1.5 years in advance to CMON what well sculpted original aesthetic metals was to Rackham?
I thought Rackham's mistake was entering the prepaint market from the unpainted metal one?
> I feel sorry for people with an emotional connection to the setting who can't wait for some great Trudvang minis.
Trudvang wouldn't have been possible through traditional retail, so I don't. The chart looks bad because of all that red, but, at over $1M, this KS is still doing better than other CMON KS that weren't meant to be blockbusters.
Still, CMON needs to show that they listen to backers, not require a minor revolt to take action.
Yes, the idea is that CMON is trying to venture outside the buckets of nice plastic miniatures model with Trudvang, which only has half the miniatures of similarly priced alternative games.
I don't think Trudvang will clear a million without a big revamp to the value proposition: namely miniatures.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I also think that shipping is playing a major part here, up to bloodborne USA based CMON backer paid substantially less for it that those that lived elsewhere,
but with Bloodborne that seemed to change and they ended up paying much closer to the actual cost of shipping (which wasn't communicated well during the actual KS generating lots of anger)
so now we get Trudvang which does admit the shipping is going to be a realistic number and I think a fair few of the US folk who've been backing anything CMON and depending on selling them on if they don't like them (or buying 2 and flipping one to try and pay for the other) have been scared off.
Ya i can honestly say shipping is enough to not want anyone to buy two with the thought of flipping especially even years after the release people still want to pay the same you paid and want you to ship it for free. The lack of being able to flip any extras has been a hard sticking point for recent Kickstarters as the time that you pay shipping to you, and then to ship to another ate away any potential profit that you may have had considering people aren't willing to pay any more then you did initally. I tried it with two games, I bought two copies in KS and planned to keep one and sale onee but the demand was never high enough to break even with shipping and everyone wants to low ball the hell out of you. I would never gamble with it again, reguardless the value. There used to be some backers on their buying 10-15 at a time. Those days are surely over.
> Yes, the idea is that CMON is trying to venture outside the buckets of nice plastic miniatures model with Trudvang, which only has half the miniatures of similarly priced alternative games.
Ah, that too! I was thinking that the theme, artist, and IP limited it to campaign, Trudvang RPG, and Paul Bonner fans. (Not too many RPG-based boardgames, except the D&D Adventure System boardgames) CMON has released boardgames with fewer miniatures, but mostly through retail (eg. Godfather, Grizzled). Xenoshyft was a KS non-miniature game, but I'm not seeing support for it nowadays, and saw it on clearance at Miniature Market If you wanted a campaign with a storyline, you already pledged for Middara (not to mention already picked up Descent, Imperial Assault, Gloomhaven, KDM, or any number of legacy games...). Despite Eric Lang's reputation, CMON is still seen as a supply of miniatures, with an okay game attached. (One BGG post said Rising Sun and thus Blood Rage were exceptions for CMON games.)
Rosen from BGG: "Part of the reason I dropped my pledge was my perceived value for the price. While I am intrigued by the Legends system, the price was getting wildly high if I want to enjoy all of the narrative content.
By comparison, another narrative driven fantasy game I've enjoyed is Sword & Sorcery. I enjoy the amount of crunch it has without being a book keeping nightmare. The new KS for Ancient Chronicles however streamlined some of that nicely. And the stretch goals were quite varied, not only adding new heroes and enemies, but component upgrades and additions and more story content. Notably, plastic terrain added on for no additional cost, though more can be purchased if you'd like. Also, none of the purchasable add-on content was really important to the core story or world building. Just one addon adding an arena scenario. Guaranteeing that every pledger will have the same narrative content. The addons are essentially cool bling. And only handful of it will be KS exclusive. So if you can't drop a huge wad on the game NOW, you can always get the arena expansion later, as I will be.
I do like CMON's games, but I've become weary of the endless stream of new heroes and enemies that I don't really want, while having to pay extra for things they could easily have added to increase the value of the core $100 pledge, like the plastic runes (you just know the cardboard runes are going to wear out fast). I also did not like that a big adventure was going to be KS exclusive, and it's even more expensive than the non-KS exclusive adventure add-on without any justification as to why that is. It all seems more investor-centric and not gamer-centric. I'm not asking to "gimme free stuffs." I'm asking for more value for that kind of money ($100 plus shipping). In a narrative game, the SGs should expand that narrative and worldbuilding for everyone, whether a KS backer or retail customer. But if you don't back now, you'll miss out on an entire adventure. The extra heroes and enemies should be the add-ons for the collectors, like Zombicides heroe/enemy boxes. Rising sun was a nice step in the right direction. TONS of value added to the core pledge, with nice extra bling add-ons if you wanted them. You could feel confident that if you missed the KS or bought the game in retail, you'd still get the full experience. But I felt like the Trudvang campaign is preying on FOMO to spend more now, or risk missing the KS exclusive story content forever (unless you want to pay scalpers on ebay later)."
Myself, I think, with rising shipping prices, CMON's more interested in the whales rather than the bargain hunters. It doesn't matter that CMON's losing hundreds of backers and thousands of dollars, so long as they're making a desired profit, and you (can) get this by focusing on customers who will pay for the more profitable expansions and higher "actual" shipping, rather than backers only interested in the "loss leader" base pledge. KS has already become a source of limited edition deluxe games. CMON's just making more obvious. With Amazon and Miniature Market providing boardgaming bargains with free shipping, I dunno if KS boardgame companies should really go after the value-oriented consumer. If KS boardgamers have too many boardgames to play, and KS miniature painters have too many miniatures to paint, maybe KS miniature boardgame companies really should go after the FOMO and shades-of-GW "buying games *IS* the hobby" audience...!
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Whats up with the Tully Cavaliers? They havent even been previewed to my knowledge.
They're still coming. Bolton Black Guard were previewed at the very end of the Kickstarter and have only just been shown off in the flesh. I'd expect the Cavaliers to be the next Stark unit.
It looks like Margaery is in the second set of Baratheons along with Lady Olenna the Queen of Thorns and I think that's Brienne in Renly's Kingsguard form.
I am still missing who might be some of the characters ...
Stannis Hero Box
front left to right: Axell Florent, Stannis Baratheon, Davos Seaworth
back left to right: Selyse/Shireen Baratheon, ?Andrew Estermont?, Melisandre, ?Devan Seaworth or Edric Storm?
Renly Hero Box
front left to right: Olenna Tyrell, Renly Baratheon, Loras Tyrell (very stiff looking tbh)
back left to right: ???, Brienne (Rainbow Guard), ?Randyll Tarly or Cortnay Penrose?, Margaery Tyrell
Targaryen Hero Box:
front left to right: Jorah Mormont, ???, Grey Worm, Xaro Xhoan Daxos
back left to right: Strong Belwas, Barristan Selmy
As you have seen, these last few days have been a roller coaster for all of us, and we've decided to take a different approach: every day, no matter its results, we will unlock for all backers a new Stretch Goal, which will bring to you the full 'Wildland' expansion, with estimated retail value of $40. This is a fully playable expansion, comprising its figures and components. There will be no target to reach for these Daily Stretch Goals! Just sit back and wait to see what these daily Stretch Goals will add to your pledge. Of course, we’ll also keep unlocking the usual Stretch Goals based on any further funding milestones the campaign reaches.
Probably about as middle of the road they could go. If they had done this a week ago I think things would be better but I don't think it's enough to bring people back but should make those who stayed happy.
Also Nifelfang is being unlocked and the new SG is for the passed up dwarf rogue from a earlier in the campaign as a 10k goal.
probably a better choice than 'just' unlocking the expansion all at once, because even though it would be a good one off bang it would probably go right back to no unlock again the next day, and right back to the complaining and pulling out
yep. There's a lot of people that near the end just look for what's being unlocked as they ignore 3/4 of the campaign. Having a daily unlock come through will help keep people that may leave in the last couple of days by giving the impression things are still going well.
Not that it's a surprise, but unless I'm missing anything that just reinforces how artificial Kickstarters like these are. Both the company and the backers know there is less product in the initial pledges than the company can afford, assuming a certain number of stretch goals will be unlocked to increase them. Mainly makes me wonder exactly what the expectations of either party are, and if they deviate much from each other... And how bad is it then really for a company if a campaign doesn't fail, but underperforms slightly?
I'm happy with this update. Not just because it adds in a good amount more figures, but the new expansion looks good too. I'm not sure how many it will bring back, but the campaign has already been quite successful. I hope they'll stage it better next time, so that it flows more smoothly, but, to be fair, I think Gencon may have thrown a wrench in it a bit. Or perhaps Riotminds could be more difficult to work with than we know BTS? That's one of those things that can mess up a project, and they can't really tell people about it.
I do really wish CMON would just do a Miniatures only KS, and not couple it with a game or anything. Just a bunch of cool, nicely sculpted minis that would be useful with a variety of games (maybe even ones they've done already). Sort of like a Reaper BONES KS, but with their design, sculpts, and material instead.
CMON was clever to release another paid addon simultaneously with this announcement to get funding moving in the right direction again.
For me personally 6 more miniatures was not enough to get me back, so I'll try to stay out of it and stop commenting going forward.
I've been talked down from pledging for this multiple times yet I still continue to keep a hold of that EB.
I don't know why.
At least it's moving again.
I kind of agree that it would be nice if CMON just did a box of assorted minis like Reaper does. No gameplay involved.
No need to shoehorn stuff to fit into a game. Just let the sculptors run wild and make crazy stuff. I think they'd get the backing both numbers-- wise and financially doing something like this.
skullking wrote: I'm happy with this update. Not just because it adds in a good amount more figures, but the new expansion looks good too. I'm not sure how many it will bring back, but the campaign has already been quite successful. I hope they'll stage it better next time, so that it flows more smoothly, but, to be fair, I think Gencon may have thrown a wrench in it a bit. Or perhaps Riotminds could be more difficult to work with than we know BTS? That's one of those things that can mess up a project, and they can't really tell people about it.
I do really wish CMON would just do a Miniatures only KS, and not couple it with a game or anything. Just a bunch of cool, nicely sculpted minis that would be useful with a variety of games (maybe even ones they've done already). Sort of like a Reaper BONES KS, but with their design, sculpts, and material instead.
I still think the problem was only one of perception, by using EB's that front-loaded pledges. On BGG, someone noted that CMON assumed the momentum of the campaign of the first day would continue, and priced SG's assuming so. So, when the pledges slowed down, the campaign stopped reaching SG's. CMON did use EB's in Bloodborne, but Trudvang is no Bloodborne.
As for miniatures only, Reaper Bones and Dwarven Forge pulled in $3M each, but this is still less than Bloodborne and Zombicide:Invader. Boardgamers have more money as a population than miniature painters. Closest CMON did with miniatures is a base insert campaign with Micro Arts Studio that brought in 88K. I dunno who at CMON would want to risk their job advocating a miniatures-only campaign, including when CMON doesn't sell miniatures retail (?) like WizKids and Reaper does. Actually, I wouldn't mind a WizKids Deep Cuts KS so I could get some of their very good miniatures in bulk...
skullking wrote: I'm happy with this update. Not just because it adds in a good amount more figures, but the new expansion looks good too. I'm not sure how many it will bring back, but the campaign has already been quite successful. I hope they'll stage it better next time, so that it flows more smoothly, but, to be fair, I think Gencon may have thrown a wrench in it a bit. Or perhaps Riotminds could be more difficult to work with than we know BTS? That's one of those things that can mess up a project, and they can't really tell people about it.
I do really wish CMON would just do a Miniatures only KS, and not couple it with a game or anything. Just a bunch of cool, nicely sculpted minis that would be useful with a variety of games (maybe even ones they've done already). Sort of like a Reaper BONES KS, but with their design, sculpts, and material instead.
I still think the problem was only one of perception, by using EB's that front-loaded pledges. On BGG, someone noted that CMON assumed the momentum of the campaign of the first day would continue, and priced SG's assuming so. So, when the pledges slowed down, the campaign stopped reaching SG's. CMON did use EB's in Bloodborne, but Trudvang is no Bloodborne.
As for miniatures only, Reaper Bones and Dwarven Forge pulled in $3M each, but this is still less than Bloodborne and Zombicide:Invader. Boardgamers have more money as a population than miniature painters. Closest CMON did with miniatures is a base insert campaign with Micro Arts Studio that brought in 88K. I dunno who at CMON would want to risk their job advocating a miniatures-only campaign.
I definitely agree with you about CMON pricing the goals in accordance with the EB 1st day pledges. I think they assumed it would continue, but of course it didn't.
I disagree about them doing poorly on a 'minis only' KS. Sure they've had boardgame ones that did well, but to be fair, those weren't all/only boardgamers pledging in those. There were plenty of folks (such as myself) who had no interest in the game, and just wanted a bunch of cool miniatures. Also, I don't think a 'bases only' KS is a good reference for how well they'd do if they did a 'minis only' campaign. Not everyone wants/needs fancy bases, so you're not going to get the full brunt of minis fans pledging. On the other hand, CMON has run a number of 'card based games', and 'non, or low mini games', which haven't gone gang busters also. In these instances the games didn't really need many if any miniatures to accompany them, so there wasn't really any point in adding them. All that proves is, the key to success in a combination of the two, but I think if they didn't bother with adding any sort of game to it, they could have a lot more freedom to make 'Cool Mini's' . Not having any sort of gaming framework to deal with also means you don't have to make any sort of 'how to play' videos, and you don't have to get a bunch of youtubers to go through the game and review it beforehand (if they aren't paying them to do this, it's not really a big deal I guess ) . Trudvang seems like a game that could easily function without any miniatures. The miniatures are the only reason I pledged though, so I guess they understand that to have success you need both. It would be interesting to see them try a minis only KS though, just to see how well it did. Probably won't beat the really big games (will anyone ever touch KD:M at 12 mil?) but could be decent money (any minis) for less hassle. And I would assume you'd be more liable to lose your job pitching a 'cards only' game at CMON then a 'Minis only' one. But then again, it's already happened.
You're halfway there. (: Looks like Xenoshyft card game designer Keren Philosophales disappeared while designer Michael Shinall is still around, particularly for ASOIAF which looks to have been well-received by Dakka (and seems to heavier on the miniatures than cards since it's not a boardgame). IIRC, Xenoshyft was designed by an intern, which is kinda Cool Mini Or Not. (:
Anyway, glad to see Trudvang'ers get an expansion for their trouble. In previous KS, base pledges got a smaller expansion as part of their initial pledge. Seems that CMON didn't follow advice on KS to offer a base game pledge that stood alone without SG's as something attractive.
Shinall has worked on a lot of games with CMON, first getting started in Dark Age if I remember correctly.
What they should do is take the framework from ASOIAF and set it in the Xenoshyft universe. Trays of bug swarms or giant bosses taking on elite units with support mechs or gun ilnes of cannon fodder or the meat grinder.
Plus any actual loss or shortalls on Trudvang can quickly be made up with Zombicide. Ankh will probably help too if only for the minis alone.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Shinall has worked on a lot of games with CMON, first getting started in Dark Age if I remember correctly.
What they should do is take the framework from ASOIAF and set it in the Xenoshyft universe. Trays of bug swarms or giant bosses taking on elite units with support mechs or gun ilnes of cannon fodder or the meat grinder.
Plus any actual loss or shortalls on Trudvang can quickly be made up with Zombicide. Ankh will probably help too if only for the minis alone.
I would spend a stupid amount of money on a sci fi game built on the ASOIAF framework. I'm not a big GoT fan, haven't watched the series or read the books, but I have bought in heavy to the game because it plays fast, rewards clever play, and is full of interesting choices. I'm still thrilled at just how much different commanders can change how an army plays.
Trays full of bugs sounds awesome.
Unfortunately I don't know that it translates well into a game where most units will have ranged attacks. Shooting is fairly subdued in ASOIAF in my experience. It is very much based around melee combat and maneuvering to flank.
Trudvang has been doing ok. I think limiting it to the 10k stretch goals has really helped. Plus, most of them are TROLLS!!
Spoiler:
Pretty sure the Wildlands release for the 11th will be the Huvfurwurm/Hydra shown in the Norse influence video. And the one on the 13th will be another troll/Muspeljotun they showed. We'll see though.
Some fun developments on the ASOIAF Facebook group for UK/EU supporters of the game.
Adam Lovell of CMON (VP of Sales and Operations IRRC)posts
"Regarding recent rumours that our partner Asmodee is restricting sales of Song SKUs to six per order:
I've been in communication with their team this morning and there is no truth to this from their position. There was a limit of six per SKU at UK Games Expo months ago due to limited stock, but they are well-stocked for the August 9th releases."
In turn a load of members post photographic evidence of multiple examples of Asmodee limiting boxes to six per retailer and some skus even being sold out before release.
So Asmodee continue to do a GREAT job supplying ASOIAF whilst also possibly not being entirely truthful to CMON. Funny that Asmodee have no real issues supplying FFG products around Europe, I am SURE there is nothing sinister going on.
If the restrictions are there (and I bet they are) it's because CMON can't supply enough (any?) product a thing we kept seeing with Wrath of Kings & Dark Age whoever was meant to be distributing it
so it's hard to tell who's really at fault, but doesn't help the game grow or prosper either way
Pretty much, neither party is taking responsibility. That is a shame as it is a great game, but limited stock on shelves means fewer new players and a dying game system. Oh well, plenty of other games to invest in.
CMON doesn't have any incentive to sell fewer boxes, so I'm much more likely to believe that Asmodee is intentionally slow walking the releases of a competitor than that CMON is trying to intentionally make less money in the UK.
well its a small positive in terms of backer numbers (much better in terms of cash), but it does look like Trudvang has finally turned the corner with the daily unlocks plus some genuine stretch goal unlocks combined more are backing than pulling out
Trudvang is down nearly 5,000 EB backers from the peak, I do believe unless they drop a big ol' bunch of Chinese unlocked Stretch Goals on the campaign they will manage to lose over half of their EBs by campaign's end. I'm keeping on open mind on re-pledging for the core during the pledge manager, the designs from the RPG are just so cool. And by then I'll know what the shipping is and more about what Mythic is putting out this fall.
frankelee wrote: Trudvang is down nearly 5,000 EB backers from the peak, I do believe unless they drop a big ol' bunch of Chinese unlocked Stretch Goals on the campaign they will manage to lose over half of their EBs by campaign's end. I'm keeping on open mind on re-pledging for the core during the pledge manager, the designs from the RPG are just so cool. And by then I'll know what the shipping is and more about what Mythic is putting out this fall.
I suspect most of the 1st 2 days on kicktraq are EB backers (it doesn't do the days quite the same as KS, rolling over at midnight in timezone X)
so 11772 - 6380 = 5392
so they probably have lost 5000 or so EB backers, just a lot of them have been replaced by new ones (or the same ones coming back and paying the extra $10)
Edit: but KS naturally have a lot of 'churn' and if the project had been gaining backers every day (despite the losses) you probably wouldn't notice. Even on well run projects that are going well I think 10-20% of day 1 backers drop out and with an EB it's probably towards the higher end of that range as people grab now think later)
I suspect most of the 1st 2 days on kicktraq are EB backers (it doesn't do the days quite the same as KS, rolling over at midnight in timezone X)
so 11772 - 6380 = 5392
so they probably have lost 5000 or so EB backers, just a lot of them have been replaced by new ones (or the same ones coming back and paying the extra $10)
Edit: but KS naturally have a lot of 'churn' and if the project had been gaining backers every day (despite the losses) you probably wouldn't notice. Even on well run projects that are going well I think 10-20% of day 1 backers drop out and with an EB it's probably towards the higher end of that range as people grab now think later)
This guy gets it! I recalled around 11,600 EBs and 150 regular birds at the end of the first day, and Kicktraq seems to confirm my memory, which tends to be pretty accurate in general.
Definitely you're bound to lose EBs, the point is to get people who aren't totally sold to pledge anyway, but I have a feeling Mr. CMON would like to see them tighten up those numbers quite a bit next time around.
P.S. It's also right now only at $119 average per backer, which if you compare it to the Monolith/Mythic Kickstarters I'm more familiar with, is a very low level of investment in this game by current patrons. With a $145 all-in gameplay add-on, and $85 in additional books, it seems like people are holding back due to some combination of shipping fears, gameplay concerns, low value concerns, insufficient FOMO, or just general feelings of "meh" about the game.
frankelee wrote: Trudvang is down nearly 5,000 EB backers from the peak, I do believe unless they drop a big ol' bunch of Chinese unlocked Stretch Goals on the campaign they will manage to lose over half of their EBs by campaign's end.
Dunno if this matters, though. With rising shipping prices, I'm thinking CMON is going after the whales, not the cheapskates. We already know a fair number of CMON and KS backers are "all-in" FOMOs who will spend $300+ on a KS, including the expansions with their higher profit margins. CMON has the numbers from previous KS of how many whales vs. cheapskates they have, and may be more apparently going after one over the other. In other words, with retail being the "standard version" of a product, their KS campaigns are for the "deluxe version", not a "pre-order discount" one. Maybe.
With Ankh, CMON will be switching target audiences to the cheapskate BGG audience with their seasoned vocal minority CMON-KS-Exclusive-miniature-haters. Rising Sun pulled in more money and more backers than Bloodborne (29K backers for $4.2M vs. 24K for $4M), yet only had one gameplay expansion. Should be "interesting" how CMON handles them. Will they try timed EB's again, or will they repeat Rising Sun's campaign? Stay tuned for the ever-cMontinuing saga, or just back the halfling and elf Egyptian resin miniatures instead (in addition?
I suspect most of the 1st 2 days on kicktraq are EB backers (it doesn't do the days quite the same as KS, rolling over at midnight in timezone X)
so 11772 - 6380 = 5392
so they probably have lost 5000 or so EB backers, just a lot of them have been replaced by new ones (or the same ones coming back and paying the extra $10)
Edit: but KS naturally have a lot of 'churn' and if the project had been gaining backers every day (despite the losses) you probably wouldn't notice. Even on well run projects that are going well I think 10-20% of day 1 backers drop out and with an EB it's probably towards the higher end of that range as people grab now think later)
This guy gets it! I recalled around 11,600 EBs and 150 regular birds at the end of the first day, and Kicktraq seems to confirm my memory, which tends to be pretty accurate in general.
Definitely you're bound to lose EBs, the point is to get people who aren't totally sold to pledge anyway, but I have a feeling Mr. CMON would like to see them tighten up those numbers quite a bit next time around.
P.S. It's also right now only at $119 average per backer, which if you compare it to the Monolith/Mythic Kickstarters I'm more familiar with, is a very low level of investment in this game by current patrons. With a $145 all-in gameplay add-on, and $85 in additional books, it seems like people are holding back due to some combination of shipping fears, gameplay concerns, low value concerns, insufficient FOMO, or just general feelings of "meh" about the game.
...or:
Alpharius wrote: And yet I'm pretty sure that this will end up making more than all the other Trudvang Kickstarters did, combined.
And I say that having backed all of their English language RPG campaigns too.
We just might have hit (or just about hit) the ceiling for what was a niche within a niche's niche to begin with!
I don't at all disagree with CMON perhaps shooting for whales ced1106, but it brings up an interesting point, are they getting whales, and are they getting enough money from whales to lose everybody else? Las Vegas itself rolls out the red carpet for high rollers, but if they lost the regular vacationer, they'd go bankrupt. You want one, you still need the other. I don't for a second think they're not making decent money from even core pledges on KS given their margins. But also paradoxically, when you look at a Mythic Battles Pantheon which offered what one may even call "too good of a deal," for $100 (90 for early birds!), they had significantly higher average backer numbers, cheapskates and all! Personally, I felt like throwing on a lot of additional money to that campaign for add-ons due to a combination of excitement for the campaign, and a certain level of consumer gratitude for the amount of material provided to me in my core pledge. So right there, again paradoxically, the value led to the high levels of spending. And they had a pretty decent 1.5 follow-up campaign, because it was popular and successful enough to warrant that next cash in (and I felt like they deserved, the first campaign was pretty successful but deserved more given how great the value/content/gameplay all turned out to be).
On the other hand, I do generally disagree with the niche of a niche of a niche thinking. I just have never seen any evidence that an IP totally hardcaps a game, nor do I ever see evidence that an IP fully wrings out a game's potential earnings. What is Kingdom Death, how many niches deep is that? What about the not nearly as successful Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game? What is say Netrunner compared to Trudvang? The reality is people give all IPs a fair shake on the whole, and the IP is only a portion of what interests/disinterests or sells a person on a product related to it.
Just because Trudvang is a Swedish, fantasy RPG property, based off of Tolkein, Beowulf, and Dungeons and Dragons doesn't mean anything to a person stumbling on it. A customer doesn't ask themselves, "Well do I like Swedish things? No. Well then I won't back this game!!!" Game of Thrones are based on books, based on the 100 Years War with American fantasy tropes thrown in all over. I guarantee you the HBO series had lots of viewers who didn't read the books, don't read fantasy books in general, don't know or care about the 100 Years War, etc. And I mean, the HBO series was very popular, the miniature wargaming Kickstarter was not very popular. How can that be? It just doesn't work that way, for determining either failure or success. A better run campaign would have made more money, the IP is good, it's not a hindrance to that at all.
It may also be that a well run campaign turns cheapskates into whales...
I think that CMON is operating under the false assumption that people are either whales or cheapskates, when I believe that the real key to a massive campaign is snagging as many cheapskates as you can, because once you get someone to open their wallet for $100 core pledge it is much easier to sell them $30 expansions. That is why suit salesman always try to sell you the $30 tie after they sell you the suit. It looks cheaper by comparison.
I would bet good money that the conversion cost to turn cheapskates to whales is much smaller than finding random whale megafans who will drop $300 from the get go.
Yeah, I'll still agree that CMON may not be going about their hunt the right way. Certainly they lack the fuzzy feelings of customer relations that many other KS (eg. KDM, Middara) have, and many backers apparently value. The "loss leader" strategy is common, especially around turkey time, where the cheap turkey meat gets the customer to buy the high-profit stuffing and other trimings.
A few of that number seem to be larger trolls, wyrms, dragons, and demons as well if you want your big baddies with a more Scandinavian flair.
I still find myself oddly tempted by this despite having backed other games like Tainted Grail which seem to attempt to do a similar style storytelling.
ecurtz wrote: Those are nice. Is the ASOIAF stuff scaled the same as Black Plague and Massive Darkness?
Sort of? Black Plague has a much more cartoony look because it's based on that French artist's designs. I'd say the ASOIAF minis are more like BloodRage or Rising Sun in scale and proportions.
We may get some (semi official) bad news by the end of this month,
as the CMON webstore is meant to be reopening, and if there are any plans to carry on producing any Dark Age or Wrath of Kings stuff you'd expect them to feature on the new website
sadly since CMON reputedly sold all the remaining stock of both games to Miniature Market I don't think we'll see it
Wow, they just keep knocking it out of the park over and over again. I love everything.
Poor fellows actually look like an awesome anvil unit. 3+ morale is hard to come by in Lannister armies
To me, it looks like a different style from Zombicide Classic. While I was not always a big fan of that style, it at least gave the product identity. One knew when one was looking at a Zombiecide figure. This looks like it could be from some Soda Pop-like KS boardgame campaign.
Alpharius wrote: The miniature quality - even on smaller 'human' scaled figures - for Zombicide: Invader was phenomenal.
I wasn't planning on backing Zombicide 2nd Edition, but I may have to rethink that, depending what's on offer.
Really? I found the detail to be pretty bad on the smaller figures. Definitely not on the same level as the HATE miniatures. Many of the survivors' heads are so small that the detail just melts into nothingness.
Maybe you got a good batch and I got a bad batch.
Alpharius wrote: The miniature quality - even on smaller 'human' scaled figures - for Zombicide: Invader was phenomenal.
I wasn't planning on backing Zombicide 2nd Edition, but I may have to rethink that, depending what's on offer.
I got to see Highlord Tamburlaine's Z:I minis in person, at least for the expansion game, and they were surprisingly soft in detail. The chainswords were particularly sad.
Ironically, CMON's ASOIAF minis are top notch. CMON are all over the place.
@Bob, even within ASOIAF, you might be surprised by inconsistencies. As someone with multiples of each release to date, I even occasionally find that I have one box of say, Umber Berserkers with dramatically sharper detail then a second box. I genuinely think they have a serious quality control issue to go with their horrific distribution issues. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: @Bob, even within ASOIAF, you might be surprised by inconsistencies. As someone with multiples of each release to date, I even occasionally find that I have one box of say, Umber Berserkers with dramatically sharper detail then a second box. I genuinely think they have a serious quality control issue to go with their horrific distribution issues. :-p
Would you describe their QC more as "eccentric" or "erratic"?
I only have Blood Rage, Rising Sun, and Green Tide, but for me the quality across those three is significantly higher than Bones, at least. Not quite sure what else to compare it to but it's certainly also significantly higher than I've had in minis from non-CMON boardgames.
For me the guns in particular turned out really poorly. A couple of the survivors' pistols are roughly as thick as a piece of paper. They are so thin they are translucent with non existent details.
Alpharius wrote: Definitely sounds like you got a bad batch - you should submit a ticket.
I'll do that. Glad we talked.
In related commentary, I love the Zombicide Invader game, but will have to sit out Zcide 2 in favor of Ankh.
I've realized lately that all of my hobby spending money has been going to CMON lately...so good job CMON. They've been releasing so much good stuff for ASOIAF that I haven't had the eyes or money for much other stuff.
No Wrath of Kings of Dark Age. They're gone. Completely.
Wrath of Kings especially makes me sad. I really liked the art design in the game and wished they'd done more with it.
Massive Darkness could've easily taken place in the game world. They could have had WoK models in all sorts of expansions to their fantasy games, sorta like what they did with WoK in Zombicide.
One of the cons of sculpting models with 3D - details can look really crisp on a large render on a computer monitor, but don't always translate well to a small 1" tall model.
Speaking of disappointing if not unexpected. I did my Trudavng pledge and $64 for shipping to US. I did have one of everything and a few extras of the dragon mount which would be cool for any RPG game.
Also it's odd that Roitminds, in their KSer, were the ones to tell people that the CMoN art book was a new book with a mix of new and old art. As CMoN never bothered to answer that.
Shipping for me seems to average out to around 30 dollars, depending on how many expansions I play around with in my cart.
That art book is the one piece I can't make up my mind about.
I really liked the books from The Others and HATE. I just worry how much of it is going to be recycled from the older Paul Bonner art book. I'm guessing most of the short stories are going to end up printed in there as well.
Those Poor Folk and Builder Crossbows are pretty solid units. Luckily I only know of one Lannister player... and they recently moved to Dublin. So my Freefolk are safe for the time being.
Really hope they release a cavalry unit for the Freefolk at somepoint in the future, I have a sneakying suspision that they won't as Freefolk are currently the only faction with access to Monsters (Savage Giants), so it may be a balance restriction.
Still, the future of ASoIaF looks to be strong, just hope that the distribution can be resolved. Quite hard to get things.
Moopy wrote: I doubt that very much. There's no logic connecting the two, now that the TV show has run its course. There's plenty of stuff to pull from the series.
Yes the books aren't finished, but the books are only a part of this setting now the TV series exists.
An undead army would be incredibly popular. That's money, and CMON likes money.
The profit potential is definitely there but CMON has said multiple times that the game is based on the books only and IMO there is not enough material in there to make an undead army out of it ...
Moopy wrote: I doubt that very much. There's no logic connecting the two, now that the TV show has run its course. There's plenty of stuff to pull from the series.
Yes the books aren't finished, but the books are only a part of this setting now the TV series exists.
An undead army would be incredibly popular. That's money, and CMON likes money.
As mentioned, the show is irrelevant. I'm also not sure if they have the license for the extended materials such as Fire and Blood or Dunk and Egg or if it's just the main ASOIAF series. There's not much to draw on either way and the lead designers have stated the Others aren't a faction they're rushing towards (if at all) given the lack of potential variety and, in particular, that there aren't any named characters (caveat; Shinnall likes misdirection). I can think of ways round it but there's a lot of other stuff they want to do first. It's not like there's a lack of content.
Given the next book is (according to the man himself; yes he's often repeatedly wrong) expected to be with us in 2020, CMON possibly can't/won't delve into the Others yet when Winds is probably going to offer a lot more information on them. There's still Stark and Lannister units yet to be seen in the schedule, nevermind at least 4/5 Westerosi factions, all of the Essosi potential and bigger (pony sized) dragons before they may need to delve into 'new' areas, I don't think they'll be concerned with a lack of things to make.
Moopy wrote: I'm really interested to see how they'll do the undead. That's going to be some interesting balancing.
As Martin is not able to finish the books it is very unlikely right now that there will even be a undead army in the game ...
I wonder what happens if he dies with the books unfinished - are they stuck in limbo.
Probably do the same thing the Jordan estate did with Wheel of time. Get someone else to write it. The chat around the writing water cooler is Pat Rothfuss would be asked to take over.
Moopy wrote: I'm really interested to see how they'll do the undead. That's going to be some interesting balancing.
As Martin is not able to finish the books it is very unlikely right now that there will even be a undead army in the game ...
I wonder what happens if he dies with the books unfinished - are they stuck in limbo.
Probably do the same thing the Jordan estate did with Wheel of time. Get someone else to write it. The chat around the writing water cooler is Pat Rothfuss would be asked to take over.
I believe Martin has instructed that nobody else is to complete them if he were to pass before the books were finished; they'd just be incomplete. Horrifying to think the show would be the only ending we got. Obviously depends if his estate respects these wishes.
Monkeysloth wrote: Probably do the same thing the Jordan estate did with Wheel of time. Get someone else to write it. The chat around the writing water cooler is Pat Rothfuss would be asked to take over.
Moopy wrote: I'm really interested to see how they'll do the undead. That's going to be some interesting balancing.
As Martin is not able to finish the books it is very unlikely right now that there will even be a undead army in the game ...
So why is he unable to finish the books?
Pretty much lost interest for quite a while. Prefers working on TV and Movie stuff instead (not GoT related things) though from what I understand the series ending has kind of rekindled his interested in writing the books so that's why there's talk of the next book being out in 2020.
Monkeysloth wrote: Probably do the same thing the Jordan estate did with Wheel of time. Get someone else to write it. The chat around the writing water cooler is Pat Rothfuss would be asked to take over.
Moopy wrote: I'm really interested to see how they'll do the undead. That's going to be some interesting balancing.
As Martin is not able to finish the books it is very unlikely right now that there will even be a undead army in the game ...
So why is he unable to finish the books?
Pretty much lost interest for quite a while. Prefers working on TV and Movie stuff instead (not GoT related things) though from what I understand the series ending has kind of rekindled his interested in writing the books so that's why there's talk of the next book being out in 2020.
One can imagine he has difficulties bringing all the storylines and subplots together for a grand finale. I have my doubts he will manage that before age/health problems become a factor.
Moopy wrote: I'm really interested to see how they'll do the undead. That's going to be some interesting balancing.
As Martin is not able to finish the books it is very unlikely right now that there will even be a undead army in the game ...
So why is he unable to finish the books?
Pretty much lost interest for quite a while. Prefers working on TV and Movie stuff instead (not GoT related things) though from what I understand the series ending has kind of rekindled his interested in writing the books so that's why there's talk of the next book being out in 2020.
One can imagine he has difficulties bringing all the storylines and subplots together for a grand finale. I have my doubts he will manage that before age/health problems become a factor.
It became a great sprawling mess of convolted plots and undead characters books ago - for all its faults the tv show gor rid of vast amounts of dross.
Does he have kids etc.
Apart from the Undead - what units in the show have not been described in the books? I guess no Jon Snow riding dragon or undead dragon but not sure what else?
Moopy wrote: I'm really interested to see how they'll do the undead. That's going to be some interesting balancing.
As Martin is not able to finish the books it is very unlikely right now that there will even be a undead army in the game ...
So why is he unable to finish the books?
Pretty much lost interest for quite a while. Prefers working on TV and Movie stuff instead (not GoT related things) though from what I understand the series ending has kind of rekindled his interested in writing the books so that's why there's talk of the next book being out in 2020.
One can imagine he has difficulties bringing all the storylines and subplots together for a grand finale. I have my doubts he will manage that before age/health problems become a factor.
It became a great sprawling mess of convolted plots and undead characters books ago - for all its faults the tv show gor rid of vast amounts of dross.
Does he have kids etc.
Apart from the Undead - what units in the show have not been described in the books? I guess no Jon Snow riding dragon or undead dragon but not sure what else?
There's only 2 undead 'characters' as far as I'm aware? Make that 3 probably relatively soon into the next one. Plus the unnamed Wights. Some of the 'dross' is looking to be quite important, more so since the show cut them and the plot fell off a cliff.
The Dragons are currently not much bigger than horses and on a different continent to Jon's cooling corpse so don't expect that anytime soon (if ever). The Others, Zombie horses and Wights are all present but we know very little about them. The Night King doesn't exist in the books (and isn't likely to) or, rather, he's a namedrop of a "historical" figure who's nothing like the pointless show villain. No Polar Bears or seemingly mass teleportation either. Apart from that I think most show stuff is present in some form in ASOIAF and might even extend to giant Ice Spiders, Kraken and a pissed of pack of Nymeria led Wolves.
Mr Morden wrote: That was my thought - pretty much everything will be there for Show fans - just with extras (and maybe appearance differences)
I thought Drogon was actually getting quite big by the time he and dany met the Dothraki again?
It's hard to judge but I think Drogon is only just approaching the size where he can comfortably carry Dany in in flight and he's the largest. His wingspan is described as 20 feet which really isn't that big, even allowing for A) unreliable narrator, B) George being crap at anything logistical, C) Fantasy (Dragons never work with real physics). Rhaegal's head is said to be 'bigger than a horse's' in ADWD which, whilst it doesn't give an upper limit, suggests roughly where they are in terms of growth.
New Wanda sculpt not much different to the original the eye patch is new and the final mini will likely have a peg connecting the right leg to the base like the original
Kickstarters are big, complex campaigns with tons of little parts. CMON’s Kickstarters are well-known for having lots of amazing extras and add-ons, with stretch goals aplenty. But we’re still human and sometimes a really good idea doesn’t come until after the campaign is over. Now, for most people, that would just mean that it’s just a missed opportunity. But thankfully, the geniuses down in CMON’s R&D have been working on a little something to help out. They’ve created a time machine. So, we can head back to some of our previous Kickstarter campaigns and add some amazing extras to them.
So, what could be so amazing that we wanted to bend the laws of time and space? Soundtracks and digital art books, of course! Our graphic artists and sculptors work hard to make sure that your gaming experience is as visually and tactilely engaging as possible. But what about adding a whole new sense into the game? We’re bringing sound into the game with brand new tailored soundtracks for three of our biggest campaigns: Rising Sun, Zombicide: Green Horde, and HATE. That’s right, along with awesome art and great minis, you can hear some amazing sounds when you sit down for a game session.
And speaking of artwork, we are also creating new digital versions of the art books for those games. The current art books from Rising Sun and HATE will be available in a digital format, perfect for taking with you and showing off wherever you go. While there will be an all-new digital-format art book for Zombicide: Green Horde book which will also include the great artwork from Black Plague.
Back to the Past
Of course, the upshot of going back to all these campaigns with our time machine is that you all get a chance to participate in them again. Now, our R&D team tells us that it wouldn’t be realistically feasible to give everyone a time machine to come back with us individually (there’s only so many seats in there, and do you know how much it costs to build a time machine?). So, what we’re doing is running a new campaign that will bring these items into the present, as well as give everyone an opportunity to jump back in as though they’d gone through time with us. You can pledge for the new digital assets alone, or you can pledge for items from those campaigns and get all the great extras and exclusives.
Another extra-special offer that’s part of this campaign is that we will be offering extremely limited quantities of extras from other great campaigns like Arcadia Quest, The World of SMOG: Rise of Moloch, and Blood Rage, just to name a few. However, quantities will be extremely limited. So be sure to pledge early!
We’ll be seeing you next week for this great campaign. For now, we’ve gotta go pick up a sports almanac...
This one sound fairly odd, wonder if a planned project isn't ready?
or if it's an excuse to empty their warehouse of any and all KS limited edition stuff they're got left over from conventions before the lease ends (to go with the dumping of most of the stuff from their own old store as their online business that remains is now being handled by the Asmodee store & staff)
It's great they open the vaults and let people have a crack at getting a hold of some of the hard to find stuff.
It sucks if you paid way more than you should have in your desires to get these things though.
Are they going to charge the original prices on these items, or are they going to get inflated as well?
I think I own the bulk of what I want from most of these campaigns (outside of a few KS exclusive items from Rising Sun) so I'm probably not the target audience.
I wouldn't mind an extra Horde box after flipping mine though. Or a Wild Boar clan for Blood Rage if the price is reasonable.
None of that stuff will likely be offered piecemeal though sadly.
As somebody who backs a lot of CMON campaigns I can say SMOG: Rise of Moloch is better than most, so you may want to check it out if the miniatures appeal to you at all.
I wonder how they're going to set up pledges so they don't 'oversell' stuff that's limited?
There's certainly a few bit's i'd be interested in, but I don't want to have to spend on digital art books or other odds and sods to get them (and what will the shipping look like?)
Oh man, that is very interesting. I recently bought HATE second hand and was blown away by the miniature quality. I might have to pick up some of those extras.
I also still need bloodrage...
How was Rising Sun once everything shook out? I remember being tempted, but my funds at the time forced me to miss it. Was the game itself actually good?
If you liked Blood Rage or Chaos in the old world you'd like Rising Sun. It's a different take as it's more about alliances and breaking them but similar zone control concept as above.
Game's good, but it depends on your gaming group. It's a hybrid game, so won't work for the "short game, no conflict" Eurogamers, but also won't work for the "why aren't monsters the most powerful units on the board" Ameritrashers. Also, if you have someone in your group who doesn't play strategically (frex, you need players who understand that allying with someone is not always a good thing), the game will be a predictable loss for the other players.
Hopefully they institute some sort of maximum number of items any one backer can buy so some goblin doesn't buy all the Blood Rage Wolfman expansions, etc.
I'm curious if they will require you to do a base pledge for the game you want extras from our if it truly a ala carte ordering setup...
Monkeysloth wrote: If you liked Blood Rage or Chaos in the old world you'd like Rising Sun.
Definitely not true for everyone!
A lot of people in my gaming surroundings (me included) love Blood Rage, but Rising Sun fell pretty flat for a lot of us. Some people liked it, and some loved it. And lots of people who didn't like BR loved RS.
So it's definitely not as easy as that ...
PS: Rising Sun was a well-sculpted game, decently cast, with mechanics best described as "more firm" and "more detailed" than Reaper Bones.
Eh, what?
ER, huh?
...You implying someone was seriously buying Rising Sun for the game? I read an implied wink into that post...and every post where someone pledged in a later CMON campaign for the "game". I mean, game. Game. CMON game. See, I can say it with a straight face.
The zone control games from Eric Lang are hands down the best thing he does. Lots of people buy those for the game first.
If NewTruthNeomaxim wanted to know how the minis were he could have stated that as lots of us, as Bob stated, buy things not for the game they're intended for.
Perhaps I need to use more emojis. Having waited until his question had been seriously answered, I didn't expect my jest to be taken seriously. This is Dakka, after all.
I'd be interested in the Green Horde Rat King pack or whatever it's called, but shipping costs and whatever base pledge you might need. Ehhh.
Zombicide 2.0 I'm not sure about, either. I'm glad now that I never bought the locally very expensive later Seasons as a gift for my brother*, but the €/$ isn't what it used to be and shipping is getting sooo bad. I should've pledged for the original campaign.
*we're still not done with a single Black Plague campaign so far
ecurtz wrote: Seems like cleaning out old stock to me.
As somebody who backs a lot of CMON campaigns I can say SMOG: Rise of Moloch is better than most, so you may want to check it out if the miniatures appeal to you at all.
In what way? You've got me curious. I've only been backing campaigns where the game looks genuinely appealing (Project: Elite - surprisingly after watching some gameplay videos of 1e and CMON 2e) or the models look like excellent Warhammer Proxies (HATE). I didn't look into SMOG because of the large CMON buy-in and Steampunk isn't usualy my bag thematically.
I liked Rising Sun a lot, but it's longer than Blood Rage and if anything slightly more opaque as to who is winning at any given time. At least with Blood Rage, if someone gets a sneaky and unexpected win, you can at least see with hindsight that they planned it.
These are quibbles akin to the notion that the Bugatti Veyron is not quite as responsive on corners as you might expect for a car that costs as much as a modest stately home in Yorkshire though. Rising Sun is still a superb game, and different enough to Blood Rage that I am happy to own both.
I am not convinced that you need any expansions for Rising Sun unless you love the minis, though, whereas Blood Rage really benefits from the KS-added monsters.
ecurtz wrote: Seems like cleaning out old stock to me.
As somebody who backs a lot of CMON campaigns I can say SMOG: Rise of Moloch is better than most, so you may want to check it out if the miniatures appeal to you at all.
In what way? You've got me curious. I've only been backing campaigns where the game looks genuinely appealing (Project: Elite - surprisingly after watching some gameplay videos of 1e and CMON 2e) or the models look like excellent Warhammer Proxies (HATE). I didn't look into SMOG because of the large CMON buy-in and Steampunk isn't usualy my bag thematically.
If you don't like the theme you're probably better off with something else, but pros for me were: Two player, asymmetric but pretty well balanced (a couple of the scenarios aren't), quick playing, fairly strategic without being bogged down with a lot of fiddly bits, nice art and design. It's not the world's greatest skirmish game, but compared to the other CMON big box of minis games I felt that it played better than most. If you have a regular group with enough people for Blood Rage or Dogs of War those are objectively better games, but I often don't so 2p is a big factor for me.
Zombicide 2.0 I'm not sure about, either. I'm glad now that I never bought the locally very expensive later Seasons as a gift for my brother*, but the €/$ isn't what it used to be and shipping is getting sooo bad. I should've pledged for the original campaign.
I've got pretty much everything Zombicide except for the S1 KS exclusives, and though we haven't played it in awhile, the idea of a 2e coming along without being compatible with the mounds of stuff I already have isn't exactly sppealing.
ecurtz wrote: Seems like cleaning out old stock to me.
As somebody who backs a lot of CMON campaigns I can say SMOG: Rise of Moloch is better than most, so you may want to check it out if the miniatures appeal to you at all.
In what way? You've got me curious. I've only been backing campaigns where the game looks genuinely appealing (Project: Elite - surprisingly after watching some gameplay videos of 1e and CMON 2e) or the models look like excellent Warhammer Proxies (HATE). I didn't look into SMOG because of the large CMON buy-in and Steampunk isn't usualy my bag thematically.
If you don't like the theme you're probably better off with something else, but pros for me were: Two player, asymmetric but pretty well balanced (a couple of the scenarios aren't), quick playing, fairly strategic without being bogged down with a lot of fiddly bits, nice art and design. It's not the world's greatest skirmish game, but compared to the other CMON big box of minis games I felt that it played better than most. If you have a regular group with enough people for Blood Rage or Dogs of War those are objectively better games, but I often don't so 2p is a big factor for me.
Thanks for that. I might go and take a look. CMON launch so many campaigns these days that I'm mostly happy to let anything that doesn't immediately catch my eye just wash over me and pass. I'll take a peek now.
Any way, with nothing new of note this time around, I think many will give this a pass?
And ever since CMON abandoned their best two games, I’m kinda OK with them...not doing so well.
Maybe it will incentivize them to sell those IPs who will then get them back on the market.
Dare to dream!
Which games are you referring to? Also, doesn't CMON produce boxed games, rather than ongoing product lines where 'support' is essentially a drip-feed of product?
Any way, with nothing new of note this time around, I think many will give this a pass?
And ever since CMON abandoned their best two games, I’m kinda OK with them...not doing so well.
Maybe it will incentivize them to sell those IPs who will then get them back on the market.
Dare to dream!
Which games are you referring to? Also, doesn't CMON produce boxed games, rather than ongoing product lines where 'support' is essentially a drip-feed of product?
Well I expect the time machine thing to be an absolute cluster f for CMON based off what they were posting in Facebook.
Obviously limited quantities -- people were expecting that.
But apparently if you want KS exclusives for things that are one of the big all in pledges you just put $1 down and then see if you can get one in the pledge manager--first come first served. I'm not even sure how to respond to that and hope it's just some miss communication between one internal group and the Social Media team.
Looks like CMON's just reprinting GH, RS and Hate. Adding sound tracks and art books lets them work around KS's terms for a "new project".
Can't think of a good way on KS for limited quantities. They could have a separate pledge tier with a limited number of pledges for each game with limited quantities. Or they could just put a link to their CMON warehouse so you buy them separately from the KS campaign.
Well, it sounds more like clearancing rather than reprinting. It also looks like it would be quite the mess. And very expensive for shipping if you're outside of the US due to US international shipping prices.
"Backers with the $1 Time Vault pledge will gain access to the Pledge Manager only 48 hours after backers with a Rising Sun, Zombicide: Green Horde, or HATE Pledge (or any of the Bundles). So those backers will get first pick at the items in the Time Vault."
Please note that, aside from the Asia-only Pledges (Time Vault and HATE) which will be shipping from our Chinese hub to Asian countries, all products will be shipped from the USA. Non-US backers shipments will likely incur increased costs and possible customs fees. We also cannot ship to PO Boxes domestically or internationally. Due to the size of each package there is too great a risk of the package being bounced back to us.
so if your in the EU you will be hit with VAT (and probably customs duty if you get any of the game bundles) since this is all shipping from the USA
Huge upmark on green horde. I initially backed for it and the added up the original KS price and it's around $60 more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apperently you're limited to 5 copies of something in the pledge manager. Unless CMoN is sitting on a ton of stuff this is a really just a lottery if you want something there.
Considering aftermarket prices on some of these, it's not that bad of price hike.
I was going to go list some of my CMON games I haven't played much but it looks like they've beaten me to the punch.
Honestly the prices aren't too bad considering all the extra stuff they've bundled up. The shipping on the other hand...
Already have the physical art books for HATE and Rising Sun, with no interest in the digital one for Green Horde or any of the music (least of all without samples). Was tempted to grab two of the ASoIaF playmats, but they're a tad hefty for me to want to pay shipping to the other side of the world, so I'm not seeing much point in putting my foot in the door here.
Only thing I'd happily pay shipping for would be the World of Smog x Kingdom Death Twilight Knight: what do we feel the chances of it still being available after the 48 hour lockout are? Good enough to warrant the USD$1 entry fee, or would that singular buck be put to better use going towards Ankh?
Please note that, aside from the Asia-only Pledges (Time Vault and HATE) which will be shipping from our Chinese hub to Asian countries, all products will be shipped from the USA. Non-US backers shipments will likely incur increased costs and possible customs fees. We also cannot ship to PO Boxes domestically or internationally. Due to the size of each package there is too great a risk of the package being bounced back to us.
so if your in the EU you will be hit with VAT (and probably customs duty if you get any of the game bundles) since this is all shipping from the USA
Thanks for that - I might have got Rising Sun but the customs etc would be too painful
Here is a glass half full perspective: You only have to pay a dollar to potentially get some of the stuff you want at 50% of eBay prices. Not a bad deal at all.
Which would be fine, for me at least, if they had an actual inventory list so you know what your odds are as well as restrict low volume items to one per customer. Right now it's enter a dollar into a raffle where they won't tell you the prizes and the person that shows up before you can take as many as they want so you don't even know if you'll get anything even if you win.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Honestly the time vault stuff should be out of Kickstarter and just be a drawing for the offer of purchase.
It is disappointing that scalpers can take up to five of each item.
I'm not sure an inventory list would be that helpful since there is no way to gauge how make each of the backers will take. It would still be tough to to gauge your odds, but I guess it would be something.
All the same, $1 is a great price for even slim odds of a score combined with cool digital artbooks and music.
I'm going to guess that in terms of popularity the sorted list would look something like:
Zombicide modern
Zombicide fantasy
Blood Rage
Song of Ice and Fire
Arcadia Quest
Everything else
highlord tamburlaine wrote: What ever happened with the turtle survivors? Did they ship? Mine certainly haven't....
According to backerkit they're not expected until October.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gallahad wrote: It is disappointing that scalpers can take up to five of each item. I'm not sure an inventory list would be that helpful since there is no way to gauge how make each of the backers will take. It would still be tough to to gauge your odds, but I guess it would be something. All the same, $1 is a great price for even slim odds of a score combined with cool digital artbooks and music.
Well It would really make a difference if there were say 10 Ragnarok boxes vs 300 vs 3000. And if they did have a high amount why wouldn't they then be selling it as a limited pledge during this KSer? They have around 500 copies of Rising Sun to sell -- there's no way they have that much for the older games. That's the issue, giving people a sense of hope to get these items that for years they said wouldn't be available again. On top of that CMoN is saying if you spend lots of money you have a better chance but if you already bought the games they're selling as part of that entry you need to rebuy one. There's a couple thousand backers that get early access fighting over how many copies of things?
They should be upfront and have said what the KSer actually was before launch and set expectations but they were being really coy about it.
Seems like a shitshow. Tempted by a couple of things but not enough to deal with limited this and that and I’m not expecting CMON to fulfill this accurately.
While I'm not in the CMoN must be doing this flash kickstarter to keep afloat camp one of these days someone will buy them, or they'll get desperate, and do reprint campaigns or just release the exclusives to sell.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit:
Sounds like they're getting rid of the limit 5 for anything that's scarce and going to limit 1 from the comments.
Also sounds like they might be doing away with the 48 hour difference between pledges. They've been telling people an update is coming later today that's going to change some things up.
We understand that many of you are very excited at the possibility of nabbing one of those very hard to find promos from older campaigns, and therefore very anxious at the prospect of not being able to so since their stock will often be quite limited, andother backers might get them all before you get a chance to do so. While this will always be a possibility when dealing with an item in limited supply and high demand, we want to do all that we can to satisfy the greatest number of ourloyal backers.
With that in mind, we are enacting two changes:
One per Backer
We are changing our initial policy of limiting each item on the Pledge Manager to 5 per backer, and instead items that are very sought after or for which we have only very limited quantities we will limit to 1 per backer.
For items that are more easily available, for which there isn't such high demand, or for which we have pretty large stocks, we will keep the original restriction of 5 per backer.
Pretty much all the Time Vault items listed on the campaign page will be limited to 1 per backer, like Arcadia Quest: Guildmaster Box, Blood Rage: Ragnarok Pack, Kaosball promos, Masmorra: Dungeoneers Box, Massive Darkness: LightbringerBox, original Rum & Bones pirates, A Song of Ice & Fire: Hand of the King box, SMOG: On Her Majesty's Service and Rise of Moloch items, most XenoShyft items, Zombicide: Huntsman and Knight packs, and several of the promo Survivors. However, for some of thoseitems the supply seems large enough for the demand to allow for 5 per pledge, like most Dogs of War promos, HATE terrain, The Others promos, Rum & Bones: Second Tide pirates, most A Song of Ice & Fire items, as well as some Zombicide promos.
Priority Access
Moreover, we are extending the Priority Access to the Time Vault also to any backers with a $1 Time Vault Pledge that have pledged to any of our previous Kickstarter campaigns. Therefore if you're a $1 backer who's ever backed a CMON Kickstarter campaign before (and confirmed your pledge), you will be granted access to the Pledge Managerat the same time as backers with a Rising Sun, Green Horde, or HATE pledge. Other backers with the $1 Time Vault pledge will be granted access 48 hours later. We're staggering entry just to make sure our servers can take it.
Important: In order to benefit from Priority Access with your $1 Time Vault pledge you need to make sure you're using the same e-mail address in this pledge as you used on the previous pledge. If you're unsure aboutit, simply try logging into the Geekfunder system.
See you back in the future!
very positive news there
limiting low stock items to 1 each means more chance of getting things
and rewarding previous KS backers for coming back
Well done to CMON to for responding rapidly and sensibly (a welcome change from recent miss steps)
Wow - really glad I sold off all my Zombicide rare promos from S1 and 2 last year.
I'm not even playing the game so it was nice to make all my KS money back. lol
That's some hefty non US shipping adding another 50%+ to the price and then for the EU at least 20%+ VAT on the combined shipping and pledge cost. At least for once CMON seem to be posting realistic shipping costs.
Shipping Cost Estimates
We are entering the last hours of campaign and we are amazed with the receptions we received so far. Over 10,000 backers, showing love and appreciation for our games, and excitement for receiving an opportunity of completing collections and acquiring items that may have slipped by when previous campaigns were live. We know that you come from all parts of the world and we have received many questions and requests for us to share more information on how the shipping costs will be for this campaign. With that in mind we worked on some estimates to share.
We first would like to clarify the shipping situation. Many of you have been questioning the absence of customs-friendly shipping outside of the US, which unfortunately this time, unlike our usual campaigns which are always EU, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand-friendly as well, won't be possible. Asia pledges aside, this campaign uses products that are currently in our USA warehouse, and it’s simply not feasible to ship through the these countries in this case.
We understand that this is not ideal for many of you, and in fact at the early stages of the project we considered restricting the campaign only to US, but concluded that we absolutely had to give the rest of the world backers the choice to pledge as well, if willing to deal with the shipping costs. We hope is understandable.
Following is a list of rough estimates for the shipment of basic pledges. Please keep in mind these are just estimates and that accurate costs will be calculated in the pledge manager system according to your address. Also keep in mind that costs will likely rise based on optional buys you choose. For backers with a Time Vault Pledge ($1) the costs will be based on the products that are chosen in the Pledge Manager and due to the variations in size, weight, and number of items that can be chosen the shipment will also vary accordingly. Furthermore, please remember that, with the exception of Asia-only pledges, all items will be shipping from the US. The estimates below do not include possible import taxes.
Rising Sun Pledge
Europe: $112-$118 to most countries. $168 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $97
Australia and New Zealand: $167
HATE Pledge
Europe: $117-$125 to most countries. $180 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $103
Australia and New Zealand: $179
Zombicide: Green Horde Pledge
Europe: $98-$101 to most countries. $137 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $81
Australia and New Zealand: $135
Rising Sun + HATE Pledge
Europe: $162-$187 to most countries. $289 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $152
Australia and New Zealand: $293
Rising Sun + Green Horde Pledge
Europe: $142-$160 to most countries. $240 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $132
Australia and New Zealand: $242
HATE + Green Horde Pledge
Europe: $147-$166 to most countries. $253 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $137
Australia and New Zealand: $255
Rising Sun + HATE + Green Horde Pledge
Europe: $191-$228 to most countries. $362 to Eastern Europe countries.
Canada: $183
Australia and New Zealand: $369
RPG is part of the 2nd edition KS - clever to run the 2 together ordinarily I wouldn't be interested in the RPG but if it's part of a combined pledge I'd probably get it anyway.
Always wished you could create your own Zombicide survivor? Well, now you can!
We are proud to announce that Zombicide Chronicles: The Roleplaying Game will be part of the Zombicide: 2nd Edition Kickstarter campaign!
Designed by Francesco Nepitello and Marco Maggi, responsible for the award-winning The One Ring RPG, and in partnership with Need Games, it merges the classic zombie-bashing action with the exciting character creation and development of an immersive RPG.
Prepare for a new era of Zombicide, coming to Kickstarter on October 16th, 3 pm EST!
Zombicide 2nd Edition whats new video
Some changes
Doors are now on the tiles and you only use tokens to show a change such as open.
Zombie cards only spawn 1 type of Zombie but more of them
Targeting changed as for Black Plague you only hit another survivor in the same square as a zombie if you roll a miss.
Zombies only spawn in dark rooms inside buildings not all rooms.
There's a Rush spawn card that gives the Walker Zombies and immediate activation (Runners don't Rush)
Cars have a fast and slow speed fast does more damage but is less controllable and you can run over other survivors.
Upgrade pack will have new dashboard cards for most of the old survivors.
You can still use your old stuff but you can't mix new cards with old you either use the old deck or the new deck but not both.
25 missions in the rule book updated versions of the original 10 plus 15 new.
New companion rules that let you use other survivors as companions.
4 Abombinations in the base game but most scenarios only use 1.
All 6 kids - they have less hit points than adults but can dodge out of the way easier
This kit will contain ID cards for all the Survivors from the first three Seasons of Zombicide: core boxes, expansions, Special Guests, Game Night Kits, and Kickstarter Exclusives. Of course, the main draw of these updated cards is using the new plastic dashboard, so the kit contains six of them, as well as colored counter bases, pegs, and extra Starting Equipment cards. The full 2nd Edition rules will be available online, so you’re good to go!
I'm glad this thread popped up as I didn't want to necro the old Zombicide Invader thread. Did that game land without much coverage? I hadn't heard about it for a long while and looked it up and was surprised that backers seemed to have gotten their stuff a few months back. I was impressed with the minis when I looked at the unboxings on youtube over the last couple of days and was curious about any thoughts owners/players had of them.
Alpharius wrote: I take it you’re not a Dark Age/Wrath of Kings player then?
I'm not. But honestly, they released a ton of stuff for both of those games, came out with new editions, and organized tournaments etc. But the market just wasn't there.
Dark Age was a sci fi game focused around melee combat with medieval type weapons (from what I could tell from the miniatures) and WoK was a wierd Saturday morning cartoon style applied to curvy BDSM demons and pig-men with a dose of fan service thrown in. WoK was also not helped by having two factions whose base footsloggers were just uninteresting or poorly realized (bathrobe guys and the fish guys).
To answer Warboss:
I've really been enjoying Zombicide Invader. I have played Black Plague a couple of times for frame of reference.
It's live and Phil is in as a promo. Upgrade set is $40 and is not included in the other pledge levels. I assume it will be available as a card only add on later. For the $180 price tag the upgrade cards should really be in the All-Out pledge.
Thiago Aranha
@StarsCream: At this point the ID Cards Upgrade Pack is only part of the Nostalgic pledge. But we'll come up with other ways to offer it. Have patience.
Yeah Presidential for me for now the RPG doesn't interest me but if the card pack is $20 and they add it to All-out that might make a difference. Plus everything is going to add to shipping costs
Wild guess but El Cholo might be making another appearance (Watch the KS video )
Automatically Appended Next Post: ID cards for previous games added for free to full game pledges
With that, backers with a Reboot, Presidential, or All-Out pledge will get for free the 2nd Edition ID cards of ALL Survivors ever made for the 1st Edition of Zombicide!
That swimmer zombie is hilarious. Though I'm sceptical if this is good overall with their 1 mini a day scheme or a not so stealthy way to make less exciting SGs. The sculpts are almost all very cool, I love the hospitabomination or whatever they'll call IV drip Bane-Abomination. A few too skinny legs here and there, but pretty nice overall.
They are not "bonus" as per previous campaigns were they were extra Zombies though, they are just alternative sculpts replacing the already existing "duplicates"
Ah man, before today I was just going to get the upgrade pack but.. those new sculpts! Damn. Maybe its time to just sell my original Zombicide core box and pledge at the Presedential level..
The renders are really nice. If they can match those I'll be quite happy. Everything looks so much more unique. Plus I love Guiton's art and the sculpts really match it.
I thought my Invader models were... alright. Some were a bit mushy. Nowhere near as nice as some of my models from previous games.
On one hand, I don't want a whole new set of ZCide stuff (haven't even opened the third expansion sets yet!). On the other hand, this does look like an improvement.
But on the other, other hand, I think I might just prefer the RPG.
This kit will contain ID cards for all the Survivors from the first three Seasons of Zombicide: core boxes, expansions, Special Guests, Game Night Kits, and Kickstarter Exclusives. Of course, the main draw of these updated cards is using the new plastic dashboard, so the kit contains six of them, as well as colored counter bases, pegs, and extra Starting Equipment cards. The full 2nd Edition rules will be available online, so you’re good to go!
Am I missing something here? This just gets you the new survivor cards and a few starting equipment (?!) cards... (why include starting gear, if there's no 2nd edition loot deck?) It is very nice that it looks like all the survivors from 1st ed will have new cards made.
What about the cards to play the game? The map boards? I think the rules will be available online, so that's OK. Maybe you don't need the new equipment and zombie cards?
What would you consider the gold standard then for board game models that don't require assembly?
I thought Darklight Memento Mori had quite nice figures. CMON's Rising Sun as well. Mythic Battles too.
My Invader models just semed a bit soft compared to previous games by CMON.
Ok, the fact that they got Danny Trejo for their promo video is pretty cool.
EDIT: Ok, so the old cards can be used with 2nd Ed, just not mixed. Hmm... still it's a lot of money to get all the conversion kits to port everything across.
I'm in for the RPG pledge, plus adding the White House as they say you can use that with 1st Ed, and the 2nd Ed tiles, as they say you need them for the White House stuff.
Having read the book, I feel they made the game a little easier: You no longer get swamped when you open a door on orange, the survivours take more damage, you can actually select the difficulty with the cards and your designated shotgun wielder doesn't have to worry about hitting their teammates now.
That being said, I still think they're forcing those that have the first game to back for two reasons:
1. The upgrade pledge does not contain Phil, Elle and the kids. I'm fine with that since I have Base, Prison Outbreak, Parente, Smith and Dork Tower but there are those that only have Base only to find that there are no other packs around. This can be problematic if the mission requires 6 survivours with only five playable.
2. 2.0's Zombie deck contains new cards while there more pimpweapons. Again, this could prove problematic.
Sadly, it's like explaining to new players what made Zombicide great while telling vets 'here's some player cards for $40, use them to build a house' . Hopefully, they can do something about it, but then again, they're now CMON and not Cool Mini or Not, and I feel that they're going to screw things up again....
Mr Morden wrote: Are Dany and the Dothraki out about now - element games has them listed for this week but not seen anything?
They are listed as end of November on Wayland and that ties in with the estimated release dates given at the open day. I think Element used 23 October as a place holder for everything and forgot to update it.
Washington supplement and no orange-haired abomination, what a missed opportunity.
I’m a bit surprised at the overall lack of homage minis so far, with all the old political thrillers. Who wouldn’t want a Tom Clancy-inspired survivor or a Dr. Strangelove inspired survivor (or zombie)?
ASOIAF wise Adam Lovell (no idea what he does at CMON) posted this on the Facebook group after the game players friend Asmodee supposedly gave some UK retailers Baratheon and Targaryan starter set release dates of quarter 1 2020:
"Good afternoon, all!
Regarding the recent wave of odd release dates, I felt the need to jump in here and hopefully calm everyone down.
The release date windows we are seeing posted, especially regarding the Baratheon Starter Set, are simply not correct.
I am investigating the reasons for these erroneous statements from Asmodee and working with their team in the US to correct this.
The Baratheon Starter Set is set to release on November 18th.
While it is true that there were some slight production/logistics delays, it was a matter of a couple of weeks, not months.
Baratheons were originally planned to release on October 25th. They have shifted to November 18th. Targaryens have shifted from November 29th to January 10th. These dates have been confirmed with Asmodee as being achievable as Global English Language product release dates.
Again, we are working to find out where the information disconnect is occurring. I understand the frustration, but I assure you, these purported delays are not in line with reality."
Mr Morden wrote: Are Dany and the Dothraki out about now - element games has them listed for this week but not seen anything?
They are listed as end of November on Wayland and that ties in with the estimated release dates given at the open day. I think Element used 23 October as a place holder for everything and forgot to update it.
Thanks appreciated Looks like January from the later post.
I doubt I will pick up another copy of Zombicide but look to adapt some of the better rules (same as the medieval/fantasy version)
When we reach $1200k we will add to the Nostalgic pledge only the full set of 40 Zombie spawn cards from the Zombicide: 2nd Edition Core Box. This way those backers will be able to spawn their 1st Edition standard zombie figures using the 2nd Edition updates:
Updated art and graphic design.
Optimized, easier to read cards with only one zombie type per card.
Overall each card spawns more zombies, since there are fewer spawn points used in 2nd Edition.
Zombie Rush cards, which sometimes activates Walkers and Fatties as soon as they spawn.
Add on for 2nd edition style spawn cards for season 1-3 zombie/dog/crow packs
For $8 this Optional Buy gives you 132 cards for all of the special 1st Edition types of Zombies and Companions, updated to 2nd Edition look and mechanics. As these will have the same card backs as the other 2nd Edition cards, you can just shuffle them into your decks. But not just that, like with the Stretch Goal above, these cards have been updated to 2nd Edition, with optimized organization, more spawns per card, and Zombie Rushes scattered around!
This set contains 2nd Edition cards for the following:
Toxic Zombies (Toxic City Mall)
Berserker Zombies (Prison Outbreak)
Skinner Zombies (Rue Morgue)
Seeker Zombies (Angry Neighbors)
Dogz
Crowz
VIP Zombies
Lost Zombivors
Dog Companions
Human Companions (Angry Neighbors)
They're selling the Turtles again and I still want them, but 50$+25$+x€ taxes/duty...still too much for PVC minis of this size *sobs in nerd*
The Abominations are tempting, but the Black Plague ones by Jason Hendricks were much more impressive sculpts, IMO, probably also way bigger for the same price (you could add more sets of them and I should have...).
LunarSol wrote: Do the different abominations actually do anything or do you just get to pick your favorite for aesthetic purposes?
The special Abos each have their own rule. Like the Croc for example, picks one survivor that he will pursuit, disregarding the noise and other survivors.
Stormonu wrote: Washington supplement and no orange-haired abomination, what a missed opportunity.
Given how volatile politics are in the US right now, it's good business sense. You don't want to potentially irritate a good chunk of your potential customers (while some people will laugh it off, others won't). Note how the President figure they're including doesn't look anything remotely close to any modern US presidents (I think the last time a US president had a beard while in office was in the 1800s).
Bearmanboar (the latest stretch goal), on the other hand, is a bit more indistinct. And the nature of the satire at play (since they're riffing on a South Park jab) means that it likely wouldn't irritate people even if the politician connected to it was still prominent.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Of course they could play balance for balance's sake and include an "Obamination" to go alongside the orange-haired one.
I mean the name just writes itself.
When confronted, claim that it's a dyslexic abomination?
On the political spoof side of things, I've seen far too many examples of people who are completely hypocritical in this regard. It's the old "Comedy is you falling into a hole and dying. Tragedy is me stubbing my toe." Just substitute their political representatives. Best to keep the more recent political figures out of the game entirely.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Of course they could play balance for balance's sake and include an "Obamination" to go alongside the orange-haired one.
I mean the name just writes itself.
I'd be up for that - and a Bushanation, a Billanation and so forth as far back as they want to go. Throw in maybe a mock Senator or a certain Governator or two. Heck, I'd take movie presidents as well and/or the whole staff of the West Wing and House of Cards for that matter.
The military expansion that has been asked for for years finally arrives along with a new version of Gabriel which was previously available as a scenario competition prize. Hmmm needs more zombies.
I thought I saw somewhere that the 1st edition updated cards came with the 2nd edition. I can't find that now. So, just wishful thinking? Anyone else see that? Have a reference?
Hoping for more soldier zombies (soldierz?) seeing how Deadeye Walkers were 21 skellies in 3 poses. Even if the low number is for "balance" which is soo important in Zombicide Six times the same sculpt for an expansion seems really underwhelming compared to all the moulds they're making for exclusive zombies?! They clearly have the resources.
Unsure if I'll go base plus Fort expansion or Presidential plus Fort. I do like the chainsaw girl from Z.C., but could easily wait for retail - if ZC had a more stable supply chain domestically. Still not done with base Black Plague (let alone Wulfsburg!), though we're getting there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well we joked about it, but they're straight up doing Clinton and Dubya.
They're being done as survivors, though, which is much less likely to provoke people. And since "President 43" is the last figure currently shown, he might be followed by 44 and 45.
Yeah, fair enough, they're survivors rather than Abominations or whatever, but I'm surprised that they're doing modern Presidents.
I thought they'd stick to the classics and older leaders like Washington, Lincoln, Reagan, Nixon and so on.
[EDIT]: A few people are losing their minds in the comments. "They'd better not put President 45 in the game! He ruins everything!". Grow up...
[EDIT 2]: I completely misread it. The Washington ZC upgrade is for "Nostalgic" pledges, not something that is compatible with 1st Ed on its own. That sucks. I'll remove that and the tiles from my pledge.
I haven't got mine either but I've seen pictures they come with 1st Edition dashboards and 2nd Edition ID cards but the equipment cards have 1st edition backart so they can't be mixed with 2nd edition equipment cards which have different art. If they are starting equipment it won't really make any difference as you won't see the card back anyway.
As they are made under licence with IDW they won't feature in the 2nd edition KS.
The equipment cards are 1 Bo, 2 Nunchako, 2 Katana and 2 Sai depending on the set
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Mine came. Definitely both types of dashboard cards are in there, but like DaveC said, the equipment is all 1st edition style.
They seem a bit bigger too. I'll stick a video online later if anyone is curious to see them.
Just got mine as well. About the size. They tend to change height depending on the comic run/TV show so I don't think there's really an issue with them not being human scale.
Not a big Zombicde person as I only own Invasion. Figure this will work in that?
Raph the only one standing straight is 37mm tall without the base.
Shredder is 39mm (top of helm not adornments on helm).
I'd say bigger then as while I'm not going to go into storage to unpack the zombicide stuff I do have I'm pretty sure that's a few mm taller then the humans in invader.
The turtles are totally proxiable too if you can't get the official ones.
I know there's some sculptors who've made some straight from the comic versions, Greebo did a bunch of feudal Japanese turtles that I've been meaning to get for some time as well as a bunch of peripheral characters as kind of a side thing for their samurat team.
Well, people are screaming about President 45 in the comments. "I'm never using this!" "Should have been an Abomination!" "I'm melting the mini down". TDS on full display (it's a board game kids - get over it!).
I think it's fun. I still would have preferred an Obamination because the word-play is just funny, but what's there is quite cool.
The important thing is that people won't refuse to buy the game. Presidents as zombies could be misinterpreted as a political statement. Presidents as survivors doesn't carry that weight. Though I agree that Obamination would have been a clever play on Obamanation.
I'm not bothered by Presidents. I wouldn't mind hero and zombie versions. Also, Andrew Jackson apparently too OP for the game.
I am, however, bothered by the fact that CMON has a habit of making a game, supporting it briefly, and then making a variant or another game and completely abandoning support. I just bought Invader and the expansions. Let me guess- I won't see a damned thing for them after this, right? Because that's what Black Plague felt like it did to the original, and what Invader did to Black Plague.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I'm not bothered by Presidents. I wouldn't mind hero and zombie versions. Also, Andrew Jackson apparently too OP for the game.
I am, however, bothered by the fact that CMON has a habit of making a game, supporting it briefly, and then making a variant or another game and completely abandoning support. I just bought Invader and the expansions. Let me guess- I won't see a damned thing for them after this, right? Because that's what Black Plague felt like it did to the original, and what Invader did to Black Plague.
You missed Massive Darkness in there, but so did they .
So is Ankh pushed back even farther because of another zombicide? Not that I don't mind I'm just trying to figure out what their schedule is as it really seams to have changed a lot from Gencon.
> Oh man there are people stating in the comments how they're pulling their pledges over the inclusion of 45.
I think it's the same guy, Micah, posting in at least three different places.
Several backers did say they didn't want politicians in their game, but at $3.4M, nobody cares. (I would have stayed in if Teddy Roosevelt with his bear cub and FDR in his deathchair showed up). $3.4M is actually on the low side for a Z game, about the same amount as Invader.
I didn't back because I wanted more walkers per sculpt (like previous KS), didn't recognize many of the pop-culture Survivors (but you need more Survivors since Zombivores have been dropped), and didn't like the urban Abomination sculpts.
Not sure why NotLD is KS before Ankh (or why it was KS at all), but CMON will get my money somehow, sooner or later.
None of the people who threatened to pull out over the 45 did not actually pull out. You can see it in the KS comments when someone pulls out. All of his comments changes into a message that the Backer has pulled out...
I don't really need any of the presidents as a playing piece, but I'm glad we got 6 of them as now you can play a full squad of presidents if you want.
This will not happen if they ask refund after the project is funded, the kickstarter system is not the best out there and will keep such backers as active despite getting a refund.
PsychoticStorm wrote: This will not happen if they ask refund after the project is funded, the kickstarter system is not the best out there and will keep such backers as active despite getting a refund.
I find odd such reaction though.
Why go through the refund process when you can just cancel your pledge before the KS ends and be done with it?
Cancelling your pledge also tells people you were serious. Asking for refund won't let your "protest" show.
Anyway, most negative reactoners just said that they will throw 45 into trash or burn it. So, I guess they Still want to keep their pledge and are opposed just the one toy soldier in the box.
Eumerin wrote: A friend of mine jokingly observed that President 45 is using an AK - i.e. a Russian assault rifle!
The tape holding the banana clips together is for the Netherlands though. Should have been white blue red .
CMON being careful? Or maybe that was the joke?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, anyway, I'm glad that CMON waited till the very end before revealing the pair. That Limited the amount of bickering to the final hours.
It would have been droll to wade through the comment section for days if they were revealed earlier.
> This will not happen if they ask refund after the project is funded,
CMON's policy is that, after 14 days, they will only refund 90% of the pledge. And I'm sure CMON makes excess product for replacements and freebies around the office, anyway. Seems a bit of the nose to cut off for one's face, imo.
Amassing my KS powers for Ankh has saved me from a couple other KSes so far, here's hoping it moving back will continue to save me from myself in the interim
Eumerin wrote: A friend of mine jokingly observed that President 45 is using an AK - i.e. a Russian assault rifle!
The tape holding the banana clips together is for the Netherlands though. Should have been white blue red .
I dunno...
Probably the funniest thing I've seen poking fun at President Trump was an hilarious video (in English) made by a Dutch group. It's probably a coincidence, but...
"CMON have already previously teamed up with Living Dead Media to produce a board game based on the hit Netflix series Narcos. That game is due to arrive in stores on November 23rd, so Romero fans will be able to get an early idea of the quality of this collaboration.
CMON have again reported losses for the year ending in September, but no where near the $4.1 million losses they had last year at this time. The company stated in its 3rd Quarter financials a loss of about $0.5 million for the period.
CMON might have been profitable if it wasn’t for the $1.2 million cost and fees associated to moving to the Hong Kong Main Exchange. Its application was approved earlier this month. The company will debut on the new exchange tomorrow. The company sees the new listing as a positive for company and shareholders.
Despite the losses, revenue increased to $18.9 million, up from $11.8 million in 2018. This was more in line with 2017 revenue of $17.5 million.
The company attributed the increase in revenue to wholesale orders, as it continues to see a decline in Kickstarter revenue. Kickstarter revenue declined from $3.3 million last year to just $2 million in the period, while wholesale revenue increased 121% from $7.6 million in 2018 to $16.8 million this year.
Gross profit was up, but the company attributes that to the increased revenue. The company has not issued dividend this year
I was thinking that the theme, artist, and IP limited it to campaign, Trudvang 
. Not having any sort of gaming framework to deal with also means you don't have to make any sort of 'how to play' videos, and you don't have to get a bunch of youtubers to go through the game and review it beforehand (if they aren't paying them to do this, it's not really a big deal I guess 
) . Trudvang seems like a game that could easily function without any miniatures. The miniatures are the only reason I pledged though, so I guess they understand that to have success you need both. It would be interesting to see them try a minis only 
And I would assume you'd be more liable to lose your job pitching a 'cards only' game at CMON then a 'Minis only' one. But then again, it's already happened. 
Rising Sun pulled in more money and more backers than Bloodborne (29K backers for $4.2M vs. 24K for $4M), yet only had one gameplay expansion. Should be "interesting" how CMON handles them. Will they try timed 
, but Abomitrejo is too awesome.
Had to ask before anyone else.
He’s also not a crook.
