Dungeons & Lasers 3 and Ramparts 3 are both closing on 10th June
so if anybody has delayed finalising it (or wants to order another pledge) get shopping
Wasn’t the Ramparts PM supposed to be open until December?
i believe this was the initial plan but they're going to deliver 6 months early so they need to close it now (about a 70/30 split in the comments betweeen yay early and aargh i've budgeted to do it in december)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Introducing the first big ddd-on - Modular River. They're 4-tile-wide pieces, using floor technology. One riverbank tile on each side (higher than water), and two tiles in the middle with water. As the Modular part of the name implies you can stack the tiles with meanderings and shallows. Modular River is going to be manufactured in Clear Plastic. And we're planning to give it a few thematic Stretch Goals
Cool idea for the river to have connector under the banks so they don't feth up the clear plastic like they do in the sewers. I wonder if they'll do an L shaped connector for the inner corner of the curve tho, as it obviously can't fit two regular connectors.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh!
I thought this was worth pointing out
Youtube thumbnail for the next stream has a "Super stretch goal reveal"
So there's gonna be another Big Thing for 1 million euro or whatever.
Heroic and Legendary pledges added. Legendary also has the D&L4 add-ons and D&L3 stuff. Only seeing two mats, which is fine because Giants and Creators don't really need their own mats.
99 Euro: Starter: 2 sets, plus SG4 and Terrasque. 50 per set.
149 Euro: Adventurer : 4 sets, plus SG4 and Terrasque. Marginal cost of 25 per set vs. Starter.
199 Euro : Heroic: 6 sets, plus SG4 and Terrasque. Marginal cost of 25 per set vs. Adventurer and Starter.
399 Euro : Legendary: 6 sets, plus SG4 and Terrasque, D&L4 add-ons, one of each D&L1-3 fantasy room or core, D&L3 add-ons, including SG2 fantasy. Best buy if you want more D&L3 stuff.
Legendary is a good way to catch up with D&L3, although the Townsfolk minis and SG3 aren't there. But if you didn't like the human mini's scale (28mm truescale, smaller than Reaper 28mm/32mm heroic), that might be a good thing! Legendary has the smaller add-ons (eg. stairs), which I thought were overpriced but necessary in D&L3 relative to the core and SG, so I figure I'll pick up Legendary to get more of these. You may want to get another Roof pack!
The marginal 200 Euro cost of the Legendary pledge gets you both mats, both D&L4 add-ons, both fantasy cores, all six D&L rooms, SG2 fantasy, and the overpriced miniatures and small add-ons. Something like ten of these major add-ons costs 200 Euros. I expect Rapid Delivery so you can get your D&L3 loot in a first wave!
Probably going to stick to Adventurer, although I would have liked Legendary for more village stuff!
Blah blah blah shipping is expensive but this is made in Poland so watch out for Russia.
Again, follow the project on Gamebound BEFORE the 14th so you get your free overpriced 80mm tall miniature!
Nothing new today just a render of the Ruins and Woods kit (which appears to be ready to ship after the campaign)
My D&L 3 arrived. Very happy overall. I can see that some will be disappointed with the scale of the human mins, but the terrain and the rest scales fine. The giant is as tall as a mancrusher gargant he's just skinny by comparison which is fine as I wanted some variation in my mancrushers. I've rebased the troll on a 60mm base and he looks better on it. I get the need for 50mm bases as they are aiming at an RPG crowd but it's good that they are using 75mm for D&L4 as well.
Gabriel posted some miniature scale comparison pics in the D&L3 KS section. Acceptable to me, at least for tabletop gaming!
"hey, received the box earlier this week (france) and I remembered that people were curious about how the miniatures scaled with others. so I picked up a bunch of minis in my reserve and the few townfolks I had already assembled to do some pictures.
399 Euro : Legendary: 6 sets, plus SG4 and Terrasque, D&L4 add-ons, one of each D&L1-3 fantasy room or core, D&L3 add-ons, including SG2 fantasy. Best buy if you want more D&L3 stuff.
Legendary is a good way to catch up with D&L3, although the Townsfolk minis and SG3 aren't there. But if you didn't like the human mini's scale (28mm truescale, smaller than Reaper 28mm/32mm heroic), that might be a good thing! Legendary has the smaller add-ons (eg. stairs), which I thought were overpriced but necessary in D&L3 relative to the core and SG, so I figure I'll pick up Legendary to get more of these. You may want to get another Roof pack!
First 3 SG, the big SG to be revealed later tonight and looks like a backer SG last 2 are placeholders. Hopefully that Shaman tent is bigger than shown as it will only fit a Goblin Shaman!
lord_blackfang wrote: Yeah those tents and huts are gonna be useless even at D&L people scale.
Tower too unfortunately. The 30mm base looks about as big as the narrow point of the tower. They've kind of always had this issue though, the doors on the Eternal Cathedral for Rampart are small even at their figure scale.
I must say I like the functionality of Gamefound much better than KS - KS need to invest in their platform, it really hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been on it, or they are going to lose more projects to Gamefound.
Kirioth has some of the rock formations from the Elven Woods which he's painted (9 minutes in video)
The mini for scale on the concept art isn't final they'll scale them properly during sculpting. The swamp hut platform should hold a mini on a 25mm base.
- Super Stretch Goals - 1 per backer
€400,000 - Merchants Wagon
12,000 followers Tree of Spirits (clear plastic)
- No separate add on for single Encounter sets
- Tarrasque 1 per backer with a terrain pledge (includes creature set) - an add ons only pledge even if over €99 doesn't count
- No legacy dragons add on
- River clear plastic - 8 parts, 3 corners, 3 straights, 1 "waterfall", 1 "wide end" straight, may have more than 1 colour available for the campaign, clips do not connect to the sewer they are in a different place. SG to add bits. No Y or T pieces due to tooling cost.
- More than the 2 Harpies shown so far
- No trees planned for add ons or SG - PM should be open until December
- They are looking at the scale for the minis - creatures have been scaled to fit with other ranges
- No mat for Land of Giants
- No AMA this week
- Gate of the Sun in clear plastic part of the Elvish architecture SGs - expect more mermaids
- The cage is part of the huts set (which is now complete 4 of 4)
- Place Long Forgotten is part of a set of magical ruins
- 1 ant per the image
Anyone know why the river gets wider? I'd assumed to feed into another structure, but they said no pond/lake IIRC. I guess with two you can widen then narrow on the next piece, but still a bit of an odd choice.
Good they are looking at scaling the huts. They said a 25mm base wil fit on the edge, but aren't theirs on 30mm? or is it just the squares in D&L are 30mm?
Remind me- is it all stretch goals are included for whatever pledge you're getting, or is it specific goals go in specific sets?
I feel like it was the former the last time, right?
I'm just wondering if I don't back the creature set, if I'm still going to get all the creatures that end up in the SG like the ant, harpies, and who knows what else.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Remind me- is it all stretch goals are included for whatever pledge you're getting, or is it specific goals go in specific sets?
I feel like it was the former the last time, right?
I'm just wondering if I don't back the creature set, if I'm still going to get all the creatures that end up in the SG like the ant, harpies, and who knows what else.
SG aren't tied to sets they are designed to compliment them some are of a specific theme but you get a full set of SG regardless of your actual encounter set choices.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Remind me- is it all stretch goals are included for whatever pledge you're getting, or is it specific goals go in specific sets?
I feel like it was the former the last time, right?
I'm just wondering if I don't back the creature set, if I'm still going to get all the creatures that end up in the SG like the ant, harpies, and who knows what else.
All stretch goals go in the stretch goal pile currently. So if you get a pledge with stretch goals (I think all this time around), you get everything, even if it's thematically linked to a choice you didn't pick.
I guess they might divide them up later for sale or other campaigns, like how they split previous campaigns fantasy and sci-fi stretch goals.
Good catch! It'll at least be useful to integrate with other party 2D maps (eg. river merging with ocean).
I already have the old OOP Terra Tiles 2D terrain, but may go with "negative space" for water, much like how D&L4's swamp works, if I ever need a pond or larger river. Dunno.
Looks like the "big terrain" SG's won out on the surveys!
Dunno how to price these things, but I haven't bought them (individually retail) because they were always more than I'd pay for random obstacles to put on a gaming mat.
Other than unlocking SG's, I don't think so. In D&L3, they had an EB model, but this time it's a pre-campaign model if you followed them on GF before the campaign (not clear if you get this if you late pledge).
Will pledge later when the SG goals are further apart and the pledges aren't coming as strong.
Frogfolk and lean-to shelter next. Interesting how the frogfolk SG gap is 30K, while the gap to the shelter is 10K. Looks like someone's actually basing the SG to the cost of the SG?
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
I hope that there will be more later because there really is no such thing as too many giant ants.
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
That's the biggest issue I have with the SG is all the "what would I do with just one ..." items. I feel it would have been better to just add SG to boxes where the theme matched so people would get them with each box similar to how mantic has done things with their terrain kickstarters.
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
That's the biggest issue I have with the SG is all the "what would I do with just one ..." items. I feel it would have been better to just add SG to boxes where the theme matched so people would get them with each box similar to how mantic has done things with their terrain kickstarters.
To be fair, I just looked at what happened overnight and noticed that the stretch goal with the picture of the ant says 'Giant Ants', so there probably are multiple under that stretch goal.
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
That's the biggest issue I have with the SG is all the "what would I do with just one ..." items. I feel it would have been better to just add SG to boxes where the theme matched so people would get them with each box similar to how mantic has done things with their terrain kickstarters.
To be fair, I just looked at what happened overnight and noticed that the stretch goal with the picture of the ant says 'Giant Ants', so there probably are multiple under that stretch goal.
They’ve confirmed on stream and in the comments it’s just 1 ant
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
That's the biggest issue I have with the SG is all the "what would I do with just one ..." items. I feel it would have been better to just add SG to boxes where the theme matched so people would get them with each box similar to how mantic has done things with their terrain kickstarters.
To be fair, I just looked at what happened overnight and noticed that the stretch goal with the picture of the ant says 'Giant Ants', so there probably are multiple under that stretch goal.
They’ve confirmed on stream and in the comments it’s just 1 ant
That's a real shame. I wish they would put such things in Updates or on the main page though. Many people (like me) don't watch streams and comments often are a mess to sort through.
That said, thank you very much for enlightening me about this!
BigOscar wrote: Not really sure what I would do with one giant ant, seems a bit odd
I agree. I was hoping for several giant ants, larger than the giant ants in the Reaper Bones 6 Kickstarter, to use as soldier ants. Sigh. Oh well, a missed opportunity.
That's the biggest issue I have with the SG is all the "what would I do with just one ..." items. I feel it would have been better to just add SG to boxes where the theme matched so people would get them with each box similar to how mantic has done things with their terrain kickstarters.
To be fair, I just looked at what happened overnight and noticed that the stretch goal with the picture of the ant says 'Giant Ants', so there probably are multiple under that stretch goal.
They’ve confirmed on stream and in the comments it’s just 1 ant
That's a real shame. I wish they would put such things in Updates or on the main page though. Many people (like me) don't watch streams and comments often are a mess to sort through.
That said, thank you very much for enlightening me about this!
I see there is a new locked giant ant stretchgoal at 350,000….
Just FYI the following items have been changed to one per backer as they are being upscaled but one per backer items will be available as paid add ons as well.
Swamp Hut
Watch Tower
Highlander Hut
The Cage (odd choice but these are the 4 parts of the village set).
EDIT Eleven Woods updated to add more hills now has 3 sets of hills (was 2 sets) and 2 tents but loses the extra roots for the trees
Spoiler:
It’s now taken more in 2 days than Rampart 3 did in its entire run.
SG to date- 2 ants are in and Legionarres Tent is next. Looking forward to seeing how they use the vines to hold up the Obelisk and Orb
Village add on now available - I think this is a wait for the PM and see the render first situation.
The river also has an orange plastic option now for lava.
Feel like this is limping along tbh, not making much progress after the initial pile on from people waiting for it to start. Not sure it's that good value at this rate, I feel like I'm paying about £50 for the giant Tarrasque and then probably paying £100 (with postage and VAT)for a handful of fairly random hits of scenery to go along with it? I thought the stretch goals would really push the envelope and make it great value like dl3, but they are pretty underwhelming so far.
Hopefully they can come up with something to breathe a bit of life into the campaign as I can't see it getting high enough to get enough add ons to make this work at the moment
I think that it's doing pretty well for what it is. It's just that rocks and trees don't have such a strong draw because there are lots of cheaper ones on the market and rocks also are by far the easiest terrain to make yourself. To the extent that preparing and painting these pieces might actually be more effort than making simple rocks yourself.
It's tracking on a par with D&L2 money wise which ended at $960k so around €900k seems possible but Encounters has nearly 800 less backers at the same point. There's a long way to go to convert the 6,000 followers who haven't backed yet.
SG to date - the boat is nearly unlocked then it's Cerberus (50mm base)
Next big goal and the Spirit Tree is reduced to 10,000 followers which still might not be possible. It's getting to the point where if they keep adding 1 per backer stuff then 2 pledges on 2 separate accounts might make more sense.
Going with the minis and a box of the swamp terrain pledge. Got plenty of woods & hills and don't need the mats (got plenty of dungeon tiles and battle mats).
May come back to pick up some of the structures, waffling on that for the moment.
I lowered my pledge to just 2 boxes and I might add more after the fact but I'm not too happy with the campaign an I think the reason is the creatures pack and thus all the stuff in the SG for those backers. I'd rather see them expanding on the 3 terrain set for the terrain campaign and do a separate creature one.
An example is how far down getting more plants for the swamp set is, and even that is what? 1 fern and 1 dead plant? What's even the point? Instead of getting more of those I'm getting a Cerberus and Drider? OK.
Archon is casting too wide of a net for this campaign.
Monkeysloth wrote: I lowered my pledge to just 2 boxes and I might add more after the fact but I'm not too happy with the campaign an I think the reason is the creatures pack and thus all the stuff in the SG for those backers. I'd rather see them expanding on the 3 terrain set for the terrain campaign and do a separate creature one.
An example is how far down getting more plants for the swamp set is, and even that is what? 1 fern and 1 dead plant? What's even the point? Instead of getting more of those I'm getting a Cerberus and Drider? OK.
Archon is casting too wide of a net for this campaign.
I agree, but I suspect that I am also the wrong target for this campaign. As a 70% wargamer (30% board gamer) I have no use for random miniatures for RPG proxies...but terrain? Definitely. I love the Land of Giants for the dual use of Kingdom Death and AoS, and the Elven Forest because...well, neat trees and rocks. I am, however, VERY interested in seeing more translucent flora.
Monkeysloth wrote: I lowered my pledge to just 2 boxes and I might add more after the fact but I'm not too happy with the campaign an I think the reason is the creatures pack and thus all the stuff in the SG for those backers. I'd rather see them expanding on the 3 terrain set for the terrain campaign and do a separate creature one.
An example is how far down getting more plants for the swamp set is, and even that is what? 1 fern and 1 dead plant? What's even the point? Instead of getting more of those I'm getting a Cerberus and Drider? OK.
Archon is casting too wide of a net for this campaign.
I agree, but I suspect that I am also the wrong target for this campaign. As a 70% wargamer (30% board gamer) I have no use for random miniatures for RPG proxies...but terrain? Definitely. I love the Land of Giants for the dual use of Kingdom Death and AoS, and the Elven Forest because...well, neat trees and rocks. I am, however, VERY interested in seeing more translucent flora.
I'm more 70% RPG and 30% wargaming so I am a better target for this but even for RPGs I don't really need one of several of the things they're giving me and instead need more. If most of the SG for the creature pack were more unique characters, like the siren, then I'd care less as they could be bosses/NPCs. But general units 1-2 isn't very useful.
I'm in for 99€ pledges on two accounts so far. Miiight add a third since I think I actually want 5 sets. Will depend on one per backer goals.
I agree the units of 1-2 aren't very good. With how trivial it seems for Archon to cut tools, I don't see why they don't go all in and make a squad sprue for each main enemy race, with options. They'd sell en masse to wargamers too. Archon could beat Mantic and North Star in their sleep on price and quality, maybe even Wargames Atlantic. They're just so... unfocused.
It seams like the last few campaigns have been very unfocused as I remember how controversial D&L 3 was for having all the towns people in it then Rampart was similar with the military figures.
I should look more at doing 2 accounts as I figured it wouldn't be worth it with shipping but maybe it would be.
fwiw, As a miniatures veteran (12K boardgames miniatures before Reaper Bones I), I already have versions of the 1-2 miniatures, so variants are welcome. Otherwise, agreed, but then they're be competing against other game companies that already have the product. I'll also add that Archon has "display details" which look great when seen as single pieces (hence, as display), but break immersion when used as duplicates (eg. multiple harpies with pigs) and aren't suitable for more generic use (eg. the cave-in wall for the dungeon walls make them less suitable as generic stone walls for castles and other inhabited buildings). Maybe Archon should only have bosses, given the detail on the models.
Maybe Archon's going for the diorama market. They're the guys who paint their miniatures, take nice photographs, put the miniatures away, and never game with them.
As for the "one per backer", while shipping should increase with two orders rather than one, also look at the prices of the "one per backer" terrain -- assuming you actually want them. The WizKid's gypsy wagon is similar to the stagecoach, and costs $50, although you get horses, a meh pre-paintjob, and bleh pre-broken parts with it.
I am in at Starter this time, so that I keep my spending below the £135 cut off for VAT at source. Consequently I will be making multiple backings and paying seperate shipping, but the saving in avoiding extra import fees will make this worthwhile. Multiple stretchgoals are also a factor, though any duplicate Tarrasques will be given away to rampage elsewhere.
This is a very good product though I had my misgivings over Land of Giants and am still not sure about the monsters. Many look busy, or have too many victims or other personalising details which detracts from genericity and free placement of the model in games.
Yes the Peryton looks like a dynamic sculpt, but what if there are no humans around, or its in spess etc.
If money is tight I will stick to my starter pledge of a Swamp and a Woods, given a little more budget I will double that.
I will buy the dungeon entrances add on, I like the concept of the river but you dont get enough river to make a difference.
Did some quick math and it's never cheaper to get multiple pledges vs just buying extra sets of stretch goals for those in the US based off the estimated shipping by about $30 for 4 or 6 sets and 2 or 3 SG boxes.
Monkeysloth wrote: Did some quick math and it's never cheaper to get multiple pledges vs just buying extra sets of stretch goals for those in the US based off the estimated shipping by about $30 for 4 or 6 sets and 2 or 3 SG boxes.
Ah but did you count the extra Lechy, valued at 35€
As for the "one per backer", while shipping should increase with two orders rather than one, also look at the prices of the "one per backer" terrain -- assuming you actually want them. The WizKid's gypsy wagon is similar to the stagecoach, and costs $50, although you get horses, a meh pre-paintjob, and bleh pre-broken parts with it.
I have that set. Though I bought the unpainted version at £22. I found the price and contents worthwhile and useful; more so were I a primarily Nolzur's/Deep Cuts customer. You see the contents would be novel to them and highly anticipated by those who find them but only look at official merch. A campfire with cooking pot, some bedrolls, a chest everything an adventuring party needs for the GM to set up a night ambush encounter except the tent. Good game aids there, except that those were the same items Mantic and Archon produced in their introductory years, though Archon didn't produce tents until now.
It is also however a camp for two, Mantic did camps for four and were a cheaper buy in for multiples for the camp itself.
As for 'pre-broken', I didn't find this set especially fragile, but some pieces are rather thin. In my case I would consider the accessories 'pre-lost'. Small items can be amalgamated and glued to a single coin sized 'pack' or 'loot' base. Problem solved.
I refrained from that with the Everards Handy Haversack as it was a direct copy of the 5E artwork, for a critical item. If not on someone's back it pays to know exactly where it is.
Is Esmerelda's Wagon a standard 5E magic item? Or did the set officially tie in with some module with a memorable character of the same name. I don't remember it at all from earlier editions, but it would make sense for an extra dimensional wagon to exist, and as magical it would have to be master crafted and not plain and ungaudy as an adventurers wagon should be.
Orlanth wrote: You would have needed to review on two plus accounts for that.
Knowing how Archon works, I followed from 4 accounts before launch What can I say I went for one per backer Phoenix spam last time. Tho I was under the impression it was gonna be clear plastic...
Passed €500k SG unlocked up to and including the bushes
Tarasque render - should fit nicely on a 160mm base.
for scale
Female giant coming up @€550k, same size as Pepe would be spot on for a female mancrusher
They are going to use coloured plastic for some of the sets - brown for the trees, green (odd choice) for the rocks, yellow for the camp site.
Stage Coach and Enchanted Tree available as €15 add ons each - at this point you're better off getting a second pledge on a different account if you want more of the 1 per backer stuff.
Restricting the SG pack to 1 per pledge level has kind left you with a sampler but not really enough of any one thing - at least when they did x2 or x3 SG in larger pledges you got a lot of each - but I guess they restricted it this time to cut down on costs.
Monkeysloth wrote: Did some quick math and it's never cheaper to get multiple pledges vs just buying extra sets of stretch goals for those in the US based off the estimated shipping by about $30 for 4 or 6 sets and 2 or 3 SG boxes.
You pay like $30 more, but get an extra tarrasque, swamp hut, watch tower, stagecoach, spirit tree, enchanted tree, and leshy (if you followed early). Plus whatever else they arbitrarily decide to limit to one per backer.
Monkeysloth wrote: Did some quick math and it's never cheaper to get multiple pledges vs just buying extra sets of stretch goals for those in the US based off the estimated shipping by about $30 for 4 or 6 sets and 2 or 3 SG boxes.
You pay like $30 more, but get an extra tarrasque, swamp hut, watch tower, stagecoach, spirit tree, enchanted tree, and leshy (if you followed early). Plus whatever else they arbitrarily decide to limit to one per backer.
That's including extra SG boxes at 40 Euros (and 2x of those for 6 sets). You're correct about the Tarrasque and Leshy (who I forgot was even part of this) but unless you're someone that likes to spend the time selling stuff on Ebay I don't think many people will care about multiples of those. If you add the Tarrasque in as an add on your basically spending the same but have less hassle as there's only one account for 4 boxes (+1 extra SG and +1 tarrasque) and at 6 boxes (+2 extra SG and +2 Tarrasque) you would save 30 euro by having 3 accounts. Not adding Leshy as not everyone is Lord Blackfang when it comes to prepping for these.
Giantess will come in handy one way or another, at least as a statue.
I actually like the Tarrasque but not as a Tarrasque. Has a Kaiju look to it. Would make a good demon too, could even replace the tower with something more modern.
Monkeysloth wrote: Did some quick math and it's never cheaper to get multiple pledges vs just buying extra sets of stretch goals for those in the US based off the estimated shipping by about $30 for 4 or 6 sets and 2 or 3 SG boxes.
You pay like $30 more, but get an extra tarrasque, swamp hut, watch tower, stagecoach, spirit tree, enchanted tree, and leshy (if you followed early). Plus whatever else they arbitrarily decide to limit to one per backer.
That's including extra SG boxes at 40 Euros (and 2x of those for 6 sets). You're correct about the Tarrasque and Leshy (who I forgot was even part of this) but unless you're someone that likes to spend the time selling stuff on Ebay I don't think many people will care about multiples of those. If you add the Tarrasque in as an add on your basically spending the same but have less hassle as there's only one account.
Well, yes. If you don't care about getting multiple sets of stretch goals, then you'd obviously get Adventurer or Hero. For me, lots of the stretch goals are kind of useless in the numbers provided, so I'd rather pay a bit more to get a usable number of plants, huts, etc. The fact that they screw us on making so many one per backer means buying a stretch goal box by itself isn't appealing.
Setting up an extra gamefound account isnt exactly a hassle.
Monkeysloth wrote: Did some quick math and it's never cheaper to get multiple pledges vs just buying extra sets of stretch goals for those in the US based off the estimated shipping by about $30 for 4 or 6 sets and 2 or 3 SG boxes.
You pay like $30 more, but get an extra tarrasque, swamp hut, watch tower, stagecoach, spirit tree, enchanted tree, and leshy (if you followed early). Plus whatever else they arbitrarily decide to limit to one per backer.
That's including extra SG boxes at 40 Euros (and 2x of those for 6 sets). You're correct about the Tarrasque and Leshy (who I forgot was even part of this) but unless you're someone that likes to spend the time selling stuff on Ebay I don't think many people will care about multiples of those. If you add the Tarrasque in as an add on your basically spending the same but have less hassle as there's only one account.
Well, yes. If you don't care about getting multiple sets of stretch goals, then you'd obviously get Adventurer or Hero. For me, lots of the stretch goals are kind of useless in the numbers provided, so I'd rather pay a bit more to get a usable number of plants, huts, etc. The fact that they screw us on making so many one per backer means buying a stretch goal box by itself isn't appealing.
Setting up an extra gamefound account isnt exactly a hassle.
Again, the cost saving of 30euro for US backers is with the extra SG box(s) added in. There's no reason to create multiple accounts if in the US unless you want a lot of Tarrasques or the huts and such.
Shipping the basic 2 box set is 30, 4 is 44 and 6 is 54. If you bought 3 separate 2 box pledges that's 90 euros in shipping vs 54 saving you 36 euro if you buy the 6 box pledge.
That 2 box set is 99 euro and 3 would be 298 euro. But buying all six is 199 euro saving 98 euros.
Combined that's 134 euro difference for getting the 6 box pledge vs 3 sets of 2.
Now buy two more SG boxes at 40 each and you're at 54 euro's cheaper (there probably would be some increased shipping cost to doing this but not enough to eat away the savings).
The Tarrasque isn't an addon, thought it was, so I guess when/if they add that as an option we can see how much more it would cost. But you could even buy 40 euros of the one per backer add-ons and still break even or come out slightly cheaper depending on shipping for those.
Getting 4 is similar if you don't care about the one per backer stuff.
16 saved in shipping.
51 saved via the 4 box pledge discount.
buy one set of SG for 40
that saves you 27 euro vs 2 sets separately
Right. Like I said, about $30 for the tarrasque, trees, huts, cage, etc over adding an anemic stretch goal box. I consider that a good deal. No one is talking about making two separate pledges if they don't want also want an extra stretch goal box.
Giantess will come in handy one way or another, at least as a statue.
I don't think so. A model the size of the tarrasque should not be over detailed, or it will overburden the eyes. The ultra rough texttured skin will allow definition without being busy.
I will use the giantess as a generic deity miniature. That is if she is as big as I think she is and wont scale well with my frost giants. Female frost giants are slender (relatively) and beautiful.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Right. Like I said, about $30 for the tarrasque, trees, huts, cage, etc over adding an anemic stretch goal box. I consider that a good deal. No one is talking about making two separate pledges if they don't want also want an extra stretch goal box.
For some reason I had that the huts/tower were still in the SG box when I was typing everything up then noticed I was wrong like 15min later as my brain just wasn't processing that due to me just being busy getting ready for a 2 week vacation. But since I'm not sure I really need the town set multiple times (have lots of Viking huts and the tower isn't anything special -- I can 3d print similar things easily but I do like the swamp hut) I think it would be cheaper to stick with a single pledge but really only a good deal if you get 6 boxes which I really don't think I need. At that price you can easily get 2 rivers and an entrance pack for the same price you'd get the extras via 3 separate pledges which might be more appealing to some people.
I really hope that the ruins and the like from the Tarasque aren't moulded into the limbs. That way, it should be pretty easy to not put them on and play around with the basing.
Dolnikan wrote: I really hope that the ruins and the like from the Tarasque aren't moulded into the limbs. That way, it should be pretty easy to not put them on and play around with the basing.
The way Archon models have been so far is, the body is sculpted whole and any exterior detail is entirely separate, with a negative imprint of the body so it fits seamlessly on. There are, however, usually some small alignment pegs or holes.
- Mini scale - they sculpted to true scale 28mm for their original resin minis and their sculptors are trained that way so they have carried that over to the plastics
- Wyvern - pirate body is optional - alt base detail with a boat (only if there is space on the sprue)
- Black Unicorn - hopefully wings will be optional (depends on sculpting/tooling)
- Elven Hill tool is already in production
- Elven Trees currently in tooling
- Woodhaven shipped 5,286 of 7,939 - they've started UK shipping but it's very slow. 3 to 4 weeks to finish all shipping.
- Trees only add on - not planned for campaign - maybe later depending on packaging and shipping costs.
- Quantities in boxes depends on weight and amount of plastic used so while some things look comparable they don't weigh the same or use the same amount of plastic (Elven hills vs Swamp hills for example they could add another sprue of Elven Hills but not Swamp Hills)
- Didn't expect water/lakes/ponds to be so popular/requested something to look at for another campaign
- Wilderness floor tiles - let them know in the survey if you want them.
- Creatures pack will not be Rapid Delivery.
- Your pledge level isn't locked in can be changed in PM - Spirit Tree in Translucent Blue
- Ygrid - doesn't look "giant enough" in the concept art so expect some changes to scale it better.
- New minis still to be added - Wendigo, Corpse Abomination
Just a quick heads up for UK backers there'll be a sketchy looking email from Spizoo asking for more money if you check through the Kickstarter it is actually legit. Brexit related custom charges......
Gallahad wrote: I really wish my dungeons and lasers 3 pledge would show up.
Would help me decide if I should back this one. Currently at a "no" but more boat and swamp themed stuff could work.
I'm surprised I haven't gotten mine since it was a very basic pledge. I did, however, rapid delivery the dragon set and the two I assembled were pretty well done so feel comfortable getting the large creatures.
Though I think the various trees in the forest and swap will be the only thing you assemble from those sets so I'm not super worried.
Gallahad wrote: I really wish my dungeons and lasers 3 pledge would show up.
Would help me decide if I should back this one. Currently at a "no" but more boat and swamp themed stuff could work.
I was thinking the same thing, but luckily I received mine is Australia this week.
Except for the awkward situation where the first box I opened was mispacked [got 2 sprues with the Phoenix's left(?) wing but not its body] it all looked good.
I am backing this one again despite having an entry level resin 3d printer simply for the convenience.
Pledge $1. You won't get Leshy, but you'll know your shipping costs before you commit.
> - Didn't expect water/lakes/ponds to be so popular/requested something to look at for another campaign
> - Wilderness floor tiles - let them know in the survey if you want them.
Nice! I have the old OOP Terra Tiles, but hope Archon goes for a "negative space" on a water map, like they do with a swamp. Game tiles as land, and connectors as river banks (cf. roof trims).
As mentioned on the Kickstarter updates for D&L3 UK customers will have VAT (and thus no customs charges) added to the bill by Archon Studio, if the total order minus P&P is £135 or less. That is how orders from EU countries currently apply. If over £135 VAT and customs is charged by the shipping company.
YOU DO NOT WANT THIS.
Some shipping companies charge VAT and customs charges with a small handling fee. Archon Studio partner with FedEx, and FedEx is not one of those companies, FedEx miscalculates VAT rounding up, or charging VAT on top of VAT and on top of spurious handling charges. It can end up very expensive, or in my case time consuming fighting the illegal fees. I won by the way, but it took nine months for Fed Ex, and their debt enforcers to back down.
If you want to avoid this bull, make pledges of less than £135. This translates to E156 at time of writing.
If you have VAT at source there are no additional charges and only VAT applies, not customs; there are exceptions to this. But plastic crack is not one of those exceptions.
Now for the good news.
An Adventurer pledge at E149 converts to £128 at time of writing. However exchange rates can fluctuate. Thankfully while you may pay more that £135 due to your, PayPal, credit card or bank exchange rates being inferior to flat exchange rates. However the conversion is done from the original price in Euros for the product on the day of entry.
To play it safe you may want to buy a Starter pledge instead, and this will allow room for a small number of Add-ons while keeping a safety margin.
Shipping is estimated at E16 for the Starter pledge and E22 for the Adventurer pledge, this is not too expensive. Yes the price per Encounter Set is higher, but as FedEx fees can exceed £50 for an order of this size in addition to customs, making multiple Gamefound accounts and spreading the purchase about is advisable. Besides with the number of one per backer items included mutliple Starters are still a good buy.
More good news.
Archon tend to shut down pledge managers around the time the next campaign is underway. I was able to late order D&L2 second order while the D&L3 kickstarter was running. If archon keep up with their old habits you may have the opportunity to late pledge a second order on your Gamefound account. A second order on a 'used' account will not generate extra one per backer items, but it will count in all other ways as a separate order. Separate shipping etc. Thus if the exchange rates are favourable you can late order an Adventurer pledge checking with your favourite currency converter app to see if it is under £135 at the time, and forecast to remain so. As these late orders are handled very quickly with an overlap of late orders and the final delivery window you could make a safer order.
I do intend to do this, it worked last time. In fact in all the previous D&L campaigns and Rampart 1 I was able to make a second order after receiving my first. Knowing what I had got and wanted more of. Though D&L 1 and Rampart 1 were prior to Brexit implementation, and I could afford to make very large orders without penalty.
That dragon looks to be pretty nice. Obviously just a concept but their other dragons have turned out quite good. It's also just 1k away from being unlocked.
Also I'm confused about the river/lava. When I add it via the PM I have to choose water or lava but the wording here makes it sound like you're getting both inserts in one box.
Also I'm confused about the river/lava. When I add it via the PM I have to choose water or lava but the wording here makes it sound like you're getting both inserts in one box.
The sprues are either red or blue clear plastic.
They did something similar for the sewers and lava room.
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Monkeysloth wrote: That dragon looks to be pretty nice. Obviously just a concept but their other dragons have turned out quite good. It's also just 1k away from being unlocked.
All stretchgoals are unlocked and we are still a day away. I wonder if Archon will plan another large something
I like how Archon is handling this, the stretchgoals were a burden to them, they know they overdid it, and want to cut down without offending the community; we get less than usual but have zero excuses for disappointment. The stretchgoals would serve as core fulfilment for many other projects.
Nevertheless they have not short changed us and offered far more one per backer items, most larger than usual, and when we get our stretchgoals we will have a lot of sprues, similar to earlier campaigns just with less costly duplication.
I wonder if they are properly contemplated the cost of the Tarrasque, it will take a lot of sprues to make a model that big.
I'm pretty happy with the offering, but not super interested in multiples of the SG as a lot are very specific/unique. Will probably up my two pledges to the 149€ level rather than getting a third.
I hoped to have my D&L3 pledge in hand before this ended but just my luck it’s eta is now Wednesday! (Still good going for late April pledge). I got charged €17.60 duties for €74 of items -village pledge and one additional pack of bases- so I’ll definitely be going the low pledge/multiple “backer” route if I decide I want volume.
Archon have been very generous again with the stretch goals. I think the amount of random free monsters they’ve added have rendered the creature pack superfluous… especially when I catch a glimpse of my Bones pile. But you can never have enough trees
I'm at the point I swapped out the creature pack for more scenery.
There's so many monsters getting included now I don't really feel like I'm missing out on much. Some really nice concepts in the stretch goals.
Worst case I can always add it back in during the PM if I change my mind I guess.
rosafari wrote: I hoped to have my D&L3 pledge in hand before this ended but just my luck it’s eta is now Wednesday! (Still good going for late April pledge). I got charged €17.60 duties for €74 of items -village pledge and one additional pack of bases- so I’ll definitely be going the low pledge/multiple “backer” route if I decide I want volume.
Can you post a breakdown of the E17.60 'duties'.
With an import that small there should be no 'duties' and VAT should have already been paid via Archon of approx E14.80.
The dwarven mine entrance actually is a difficult part for me because I don't see any good way to really incorporate it. So I have to admit that I would rather have seen something else there.
I'd buy that entrance any day of the week if it wasn't for the horrible cost of sending it to Japan. I got burnt with the last Rampart KS. I'll try to get it next time I visit Europe.
rosafari wrote: Sorry it was VAT rather than anything else, just sloppy writing there. It came as an invoice from Archon via Stripe
Automatically Appended Next Post: The cost of the order with shipping was €89.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit 2: And they charged €71 for the village pledge in the manager rather than the €85 on Kickstarter.
OK. Thank you for the clarification. It appears the new system is working as intended.
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Dolnikan wrote: The dwarven mine entrance actually is a difficult part for me because I don't see any good way to really incorporate it. So I have to admit that I would rather have seen something else there.
If you remember the bridges from D&L 2, you have one Sf bridge and two fantasy bridges. One of the fantasy bridges was in independent terrain element, in reality the first item from the Encounters range.
The other two bridges had D&L connectors. I strongly suspect this mine entrance has something similar and is intended to dovetail with D&L dungeon tiles, and not Encounters per se.
Now I could be wrong here, we have unlcoked dungeon entrances already and they do not transition, but this is a much larger piece with a rear to it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: End of project livestream here:
Nearly 900K pledged. If this is like D&L3 people will get hyped and go crazy pledging to unlock something big in the last few minutes. This happened last time with the phoenix. I remember turning up for the Discord party/feeding frenzy, but left my credit card under lock and key before I did.
- The coloured plastic is set and is not optional
- looking at option to connect dwarven mine entrance to the dungeon sets depends on tooling.
- Roblin is not one per backer
- Goblin Hut is available for €15
- The dragon is smaller than the previous dragons
- new base pack in the PM only - 25mm, 50mm and 75mm bases
- Serpent King 50mm base - viper swarms 25mm bases
Already pledged for a Starter, and just opened a second Gamefound account and pledged a Euro in case the deal is worse in PM after Archon realizes the pricing is too generous.
What the hell am I doing opening up a second GF account, that would be so stupid buying another pledge...
Miguelsan wrote: I'd buy that entrance any day of the week if it wasn't for the horrible cost of sending it to Japan. I got burnt with the last Rampart KS. I'll try to get it next time I visit Europe.
M.
Yeah, I was eyeing off this KS until I saw the shipping to AU almost doubles the cost of the thing.
I think almost reaching a million in these difficult financial times is pretty good. I like a lot of the concept art ideas and look forward to seeing how they look when completed. We pledged for the four set pledge (planning on one of each set) and will add some add-ons later during the pledge manager once we free up some more money from our budget. No idea when I will finally get around to painting this stuff but I feel more comfortable ordering stuff made in the EU than from China.
sh4mike wrote: Already pledged for a Starter, and just opened a second Gamefound account and pledged a Euro in case the deal is worse in PM after Archon realizes the pricing is too generous.
What the hell am I doing opening up a second GF account, that would be so stupid buying another pledge...
Archon have never welched on prices so far. I do not think they are going to now. Your pledge is safe. We know the overdoing of stretch goals for D&L2 hurt them, but they kept their promises and made the biggest free stuff one per backer instead.
That being said in this economy we might discover an even worse situation in 2023, with prices for shipping greatly magnified. But in that case D&L shipping costs are the least of our worries.
My DL3 arrived a couple of days ago and it's a ridiculous amount of stuff to put together! Spent almost a full day on it and I've only put together all the ks dungeon accessories and the bigger models, along with maybe half the villagers from the base Pledge. Congratulations to anyone who manages to stay motivated enough to put all this together and paints it up, I'm exhausted already and my hands are cut to bits!
The people are small, very small. Doesn't matter too much on the NPC style villagers as mh heroes should stand out and tower over these plebs, but it might look a bit odd with the army/ hero figures. The weapons as well are very very spindly and fragile, you need to be very careful
Update/Email today confirming they plan to start shipping Ramparts 3 toward the end of the month
(and will re-open the PM when they do so folk who were worried about it closing earlier than the expected Dec date can add more stuff)
... that will hopefully mean all the D&L shipping is done by then
(although it wouldn't surprise me if there are still some UK pledges to ship since the paperwork makes them so much harder to do, and being able to carry on maxing out their courier capacity will be important, use it or loose it as they say)
- Retail plans - July, September and November releases for Pathfinder sets and D&L
- January 2023 - next Gamefound campaign - no details given
- Encounters may ship in November/December - optimistic but achievable
- D&L Woodhaven shipping to finish end of 3rd week of July - shipping is on time and as planned
- Encounters upgrades - Sail for the boat (space on tool), Wasps have been scaled up in size parts were too small.
- River sculpt done (see pictures) next tool on production list
- no clear insect wings - no clear sprue space available.
- Coloured plastics (where applicable) only no grey plastic option.
- Curved walls are planned for future D&L projects
- Open to working with other games/developers to theme D&L sets - have approached North Star about Frostgrave but haven't heard back yet.
- Roblin goal - not totally ruled out adding him yet.
- Jarek would like to do a full castle in future
Archon overview
- Prioritise their own production over customers
- Products changed and developed based on feedback
- Issues - working with 3rd parties/external suppliers - understanding their processes are not the same
- Jarek acknowledges he doesn't always make the best calls, gamer head vs business head - regrets supplying preassembled minis takes to much time.
- Mispacks (currently 3.2%) need to reduce to 1% or less
- costs $300 to $400 to put a tool back on the machine so they have to plan production accordingly can't keep jumping around and going back if they get quantities wrong, that's why they locked in the Rampart PM (which will reopen in August) (My own note - expect the Encounters PM to lock early if they ship early don't be surprised if it doesn't run to December)
- Wargame development - Space combat game being worked on. Sci-Fi wargame still being worked on (may be licensed talks ongoing - triple A title)
- No plans for Chibi minis
There was a section on their boardgames, development, ratings, feedback, what they've learned etc. which I won't cover here.
Too bad about the insect wings not being translucent. Good news on the sail for the boat. Still waiting four our D&L 3 to arrive so I can form an opinion on the figures. We were near the end of D&L 2 as well. Sigh.
Grumpy Gnome wrote: Too bad about the insect wings not being translucent. Good news on the sail for the boat. Still waiting four our D&L 3 to arrive so I can form an opinion on the figures. We were near the end of D&L 2 as well. Sigh.
I'm waiting on my too before doing the pledge manager. It shipped a little over two weeks ago and has been stuck in Customs in both the EU and now the US. It actually arrived in the US at Memphis TN and then flew to Newark NJ and has been sitting there for clearance. Not sure what FedEX is doing. that's over 1k Miles (1750 KM) from the destination hub just to get inspected.
On the other side of the coin I had some 3d printer resin shipped from Asia and get ignored by customs more or less and get to my house in 3 days this week. Whatever Archon did to my package it's cursed.
Grumpy Gnome wrote: Too bad about the insect wings not being translucent. Good news on the sail for the boat. Still waiting four our D&L 3 to arrive so I can form an opinion on the figures. We were near the end of D&L 2 as well. Sigh.
I'm waiting on my too before doing the pledge manager. It shipped a little over two weeks ago and has been stuck in Customs in both the EU and now the US. It actually arrived in the US at Memphis TN and then flew to Newark NJ and has been sitting there for clearance. Not sure what FedEX is doing. that's over 1k Miles (1750 KM) from the destination hub just to get inspected.
On the other side of the coin I had some 3d printer resin shipped from Asia and get ignored by customs more or less and get to my house in 3 days this week. Whatever Archon did to my package it's cursed.
I often wonder if Fedex actually don't trust their own warehouse systems, so feel they've got to keep packages moving even if it is to the wrong place (or country) otherwise they'll loose them forever.
Grumpy Gnome wrote: Too bad about the insect wings not being translucent. Good news on the sail for the boat. Still waiting four our D&L 3 to arrive so I can form an opinion on the figures. We were near the end of D&L 2 as well. Sigh.
I'm waiting on my too before doing the pledge manager. It shipped a little over two weeks ago and has been stuck in Customs in both the EU and now the US. It actually arrived in the US at Memphis TN and then flew to Newark NJ and has been sitting there for clearance. Not sure what FedEX is doing. that's over 1k Miles (1750 KM) from the destination hub just to get inspected.
On the other side of the coin I had some 3d printer resin shipped from Asia and get ignored by customs more or less and get to my house in 3 days this week. Whatever Archon did to my package it's cursed.
I often wonder if Fedex actually don't trust their own warehouse systems, so feel they've got to keep packages moving even if it is to the wrong place (or country) otherwise they'll loose them forever.
This wouldn't surprise me. They sent the package East 1,000 miles while I'm closer to the Western edge of the US. The package did finally leave New Jersy this morning after being there for 3 days.
Grumpy Gnome wrote: Too bad about the insect wings not being translucent. Good news on the sail for the boat. Still waiting four our D&L 3 to arrive so I can form an opinion on the figures. We were near the end of D&L 2 as well. Sigh.
I'm waiting on my too before doing the pledge manager. It shipped a little over two weeks ago and has been stuck in Customs in both the EU and now the US. It actually arrived in the US at Memphis TN and then flew to Newark NJ and has been sitting there for clearance. Not sure what FedEX is doing. that's over 1k Miles (1750 KM) from the destination hub just to get inspected.
On the other side of the coin I had some 3d printer resin shipped from Asia and get ignored by customs more or less and get to my house in 3 days this week. Whatever Archon did to my package it's cursed.
I often wonder if Fedex actually don't trust their own warehouse systems, so feel they've got to keep packages moving even if it is to the wrong place (or country) otherwise they'll loose them forever.
This wouldn't surprise me. They sent the package East 1,000 miles while I'm closer to the Western edge of the US. The package did finally leave New Jersy this morning after being there for 3 days.
I have to ask if there are giant virtual pinball flippers on either coast of the US. This parcel has been kept in play a while, and someone is running up a score.
I have to confess that I'm actually happy with less clear plastic. I just finished assembling the ghost dragon and it was an absolute pain to see anything at all. So I really prefer it if things are just normal plastic so I can see what I'm doing. Everything gets painted anyways.
Of course, it's different with other people who have other approaches.
Dolnikan wrote: I have to confess that I'm actually happy with less clear plastic. I just finished assembling the ghost dragon and it was an absolute pain to see anything at all. So I really prefer it if things are just normal plastic so I can see what I'm doing. Everything gets painted anyways.
Of course, it's different with other people who have other approaches.
Clear plastic has to be done right, less is more. Archon has yet to learn this.
Dolnikan wrote: I have to confess that I'm actually happy with less clear plastic. I just finished assembling the ghost dragon and it was an absolute pain to see anything at all. So I really prefer it if things are just normal plastic so I can see what I'm doing. Everything gets painted anyways.
Of course, it's different with other people who have other approaches.
Agreed, it's so hard and brittle, it's horrible to work with and you can't make out details at all. I think the ghost dragon has a really stupid head, but I won't know for sure until I Prime it
My package arrived today and sadly didn't have any visa stamps from all the fun places it visited.
This was my first D&L as I just tend to 3d print things like this but I was interested in the thinner walls and transparent rooms (as printers aren't great at either) and the very cheap townsfolk and guards. Looking at how small each of the lava rooms I got was, and the general price D&L goes for at retail, it would be quite pricy to get yourself a reasonable amount of this stuff for games outside of Kickstarter.
I'm kind of disappointed I didn't do another set for frost caverns in the blue (as I think with some cheap LEDs and dry brushing it would look cool) as to even just have an ice cavern large enough for a reasonably sized dragon fight it would cost around $150 at retail at MSRP but if I had gone up one level in the KS (doubling my cost) I would have gotten about that size of a room for maybe $30. Thems the breaks though but it does feel like it's an expensive catch-up game if you haven't backed all the campaigns so I see no reason to move away from 3d printing for a lot of what they have.
On the Dungeons and lazers 3 I went with the Town pledge, 2 Core fantasy walls, and unfortunately did not pick the room sets. It default and or picked for me and I got 7 Lava of which I do not want and Archon said I have to pay to ship back. It should not have accepted my town pledges with out me selecting the rooms. What a waste.
That sucks. It's odd that it would default like that for the extras (I understand the base core box is the default unless you trade it in but that's different).
Looking at all the Stretch Goals for the townfolk starter it shows how much the economy has shifted as D&L 4 was no where near as generous. I had honestly forgotten how much stuff was unlocked.
yeah apparently the thumbnails you click on and pick the room type. If you do not it picks the type already pictured as opposed to not completing pledge. It doesn't help that the thumbnails are mixed with the SG's. expensive mistakes
I don't mean to be insensitive but some degree of computer literacy is required for online shopping. I'm not sure what you expected to happen when you paid for an order without choosing your rewards.
> That sucks. It's odd that it would default like that for the extras (I understand the base core box is the default unless you trade it in but that's different).
In D&L4, Gamefound had that weird "lane exit in a southbound direction" icon that had people confused, so some accidentally selected multiples of the default Elven Forest. You can correct this in the PM.
See the D&L Fans FB page for the post about that weird icon, if you're not sure if you selected the right icon.
Hope the Lava Rooms get sold on eBay. Didn't think of LED's for the frost cavern!
There is a Dungeons and lasers FB trading page I was referred to on the KS. Perhaps I can off load it there. Reading comments and posts, people received the wrong rooms as well. One gentlemen, has 9 Dwarven mine rooms he is wanting to trade.
I have pledged to 85 KS with little to no issues. Bummer really, as this is the second KS I have with them and planned to purchase 5 mammoth walkers when they were available. The emails they sent in regards to my issue has however changed my mind.
Ernster wrote: On the Dungeons and lazers 3 I went with the Town pledge, 2 Core fantasy walls, and unfortunately did not pick the room sets. It default and or picked for me and I got 7 Lava of which I do not want and Archon said I have to pay to ship back. It should not have accepted my town pledges with out me selecting the rooms. What a waste.
Lava is the default room for the pledge manager. I doubt you are the only one caught up with this.
I will say this, D&L is very good, and the Core Fantasy is a good start. While having a mix of dungeon related rooms would be best some rooms only really work en masse. I ended up buying five dwarven mines because you dont want a mine room, you want a mine level at least. Even so I barely have enough for a decent mine. I think lava is the same. I went with a blue lava room as a magical ice chamber for storing food, or the individual lair of an ice monster in a menagerie.
For a lave dungeon though you could well end up using seven sets easily. Room sets do not go far.
You are now the proud owner of a fire dungeon and a regular dungeon. I would expand from that if I were you rather than take things away. Things like Warlock Altar and Torture Chamber you only need one set of and mix it in. You can buy those separately, or add them to an Encounters pledge as an add on.
Sewers and Dwarven mines are both go big or go home. With the pledge level you bought into you can save these for later.
D&L is the best overall dungeon set I have seen It best Warlock tiles, Dwarven forge and all the others easily due to a variety of factors. If you like the Core sets you will likely want to go a lot deeper over time. Most gamers who buy in end up coming back for more and bigger layouts. Don't lament your purchase, keep it and use it as a base to build on, or find another D&L player in your community and sell him the lava dungeon. I dont think you will find a hard time getting a buyer.
Thanks for the info Orlanth. I will probably try and trade them for another fantasy as I want to expand the dungeon. Do you know if plausible to paint as a cave or do the walls appear dripping?
I was hoping to see how versatile they core fantasy would be with my Maki Modular terrain.
I'm kind of disappointed I didn't do another set for frost caverns in the blue (as I think with some cheap LEDs and dry brushing it would look cool) as to even just have an ice cavern large enough for a reasonably sized dragon fight it would cost around $150 at retail at MSRP but if I had gone up one level in the KS (doubling my cost) I would have gotten about that size of a room for maybe $30. Thems the breaks though but it does feel like it's an expensive catch-up game if you haven't backed all the campaigns so I see no reason to move away from 3d printing for a lot of what they have.
The opposite problem perhaps. I bought one blue lava room, it makes for a decent walk in freezer for a wizard, and a handful of different floor tiles for the mix of general tiles. The floor tiles also don't really work for ice rooms, only the walls do.
I think you are using the wrong product for ice caverns though, get a sheet of foam, cut out your cavern with a hot wire cutter. Mount on heavy cardstock, Prime with brush-on mid BLUE primer, not white. Then paint it white and seal it with Mod Podge. Done. You can use a double size D&L tile as the entrance to the cavern so it fits in with your dungeon. File it down underneath and have a run off of cardstock with the top laver and corrugation cut off to fit with the dungeon tile. Cut a single dungeon wall tile in half and match it to the cavern walls. Paint the entrance area to match your dungeon and add some snow effect to it fading off over the width of the tile. Now it fits your dungeon.
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Ernster wrote: Thanks for the info Orlanth. I will probably try and trade them for another fantasy as I want to expand the dungeon. Do you know if plausible to paint as a cave or do the walls appear dripping?
I was hoping to see how versatile they core fantasy would be with my Maki Modular terrain.
I would hold onto them until after you have played with the core sets a bit. Find out what type of dungeon builder you are. You may be the restrained type who finds a double dungeon core set adequate for all his generic dungeon needs, or you might need moar! In the latter case I can totally see the use for seven lava rooms. You can do nice stuff like elemental plane of fire dungeon or dungeon sections a la Temple of Elemental Evil. One box simply won't cut it.
Now don't get me wrong, I would not have bought seven lava rooms, I didn't and I am plenty hardcore into D&L. But that is because my budget would not stretch that far, I cannot buy everything, so a lava level is something that didn't make the cut. But if I were to make a lava level I would buy a minimum of five room sets. Eventually once I have all the generic stuff in sufficient numbers I might just do this.
I think you are using the wrong product for ice caverns though, get a sheet of foam, cut out your cavern with a hot wire cutter. Mount on heavy cardstock, Prime with brush-on mid BLUE primer, not white. Then paint it white and seal it with Mod Podge. Done. You can use a double size D&L tile as the entrance to the cavern so it fits in with your dungeon. File it down underneath and have a run off of cardstock with the top laver and corrugation cut off to fit with the dungeon tile. Cut a single dungeon wall tile in half and match it to the cavern walls. Paint the entrance area to match your dungeon and add some snow effect to it fading off over the width of the tile. Now it fits your dungeon.
No offense but why would I be buying expensive plastic kits if I was willing to make it with cheap foam?
I think Orlanth meant it to be done cheaper as opposed to spending more expensive kits. heck, get some lava rooms and paint em blue then white like he said. I know a guy. ;0
I think you are using the wrong product for ice caverns though, get a sheet of foam, cut out your cavern with a hot wire cutter. Mount on heavy cardstock, Prime with brush-on mid BLUE primer, not white. Then paint it white and seal it with Mod Podge. Done. You can use a double size D&L tile as the entrance to the cavern so it fits in with your dungeon. File it down underneath and have a run off of cardstock with the top laver and corrugation cut off to fit with the dungeon tile. Cut a single dungeon wall tile in half and match it to the cavern walls. Paint the entrance area to match your dungeon and add some snow effect to it fading off over the width of the tile. Now it fits your dungeon.
No offense but why would I be buying expensive plastic kits if I was willing to make it with cheap foam?
It isnt a downgrade. If you want a dungeon with icy walls, buy plastic kits and add ice effects. If you want an 'ice cavern' you are actually getting a better quality end result by the above method. Ice walls and stone walls look way different, and it just looks wrong to make ice square and straight unless it is sculpted somehow.
Now if you want an irregular cavern, and want a plastic product for it. Here you go:
I never rate the wilderness terrain for this system, and D&L Encounters is far superior product. But for caverns, this is a good shot. I am in for an 'Ogre' pledge.
you could buy a 'Troll or 'Goblin' pledge level as seen below.
And yes I will be gluing a dungeon tile to a bit of dungeon walling and some cavern pieces to make transition tiles. This product will require a play mat though, but I dont see that as a problem, the transition tiles will be filed down on the cavern side so you 'step off the dungeon tiles onto the cavern floor.
You could buy this and paint to as ice easily enough. If you go Ogre you would likely have enough bitz to make different sets.
New renders from Facebook - size looks fine (compared to the mini at least). The thatch might be a bit thick but renders can be harder to judge, the cobweb is a nice little detail. I wouldn’t be surprised if you get half on a sprue and 2 sprues forms the entire piece to save on tooling.
Finally received my shipping notification of D&L3, stating that it should arrive on Monday.
8.3 kg :O
I kinda forgot what I ordered apart from the "All Dragons" pack.
DaveC wrote: New renders from Facebook - size looks fine (compared to the mini at least).
Thank you.
Ok, don't like this. It is well made and decorated but a hovel. I can understand a barbarian tribe having low expectations for housing, they are an outdoors people who need rain shelters and places to sleep and keep their stuff in a community with little to no crime. But that is it. Thwey would at least be big enough to enter, the house door has just about room for the mini showcased, and a big barbarian would struggle.
What a waste, Archon need to make this out of four pieces by rotation and make it a lot wider, the height is just fine for a watchtower, but it is way too narrow. Even if there is interior space there is no room to put anything.
Is that even a hut? You cant lie down in it.
One decent piece at least.
Archon are suffering from excess generosity in the past, but are heading too far the other way. If they are going to do a half arsed job, why include the stretchgoal.
Here is what Archon should do. Recognise that most of these items can be made from four pieces in rotation per level/side of the structure. So make a sprue with upsized elements of the hut and tower and include four such sprues in the box, then have a different sprue with all the other pieces. A hnut should be able to hold multiple natives and a tower some guards and somewhere to sit.
They are making a nice big Tarrasque, thank you, but then make the buildings so dinky
The highlander hut is a real world design from Scandinavia. The hunts generally have a dug down floor so you're stepping down. It's very close to how big some where.
The tower is fine as well. Ladders exist and it looks like things can easily fit in the top without the roof. It will depend on the mini of course but I don't see anything wrong with them.
The hut, I'm not sure if it's based off a real world thing or not, but it's a very common video game design and range from that size to larger. I'm fine with it as is. Sometimes you want something that's just a place for things to stand during combat and don't really care if it's realistic to live in.
There is also the aspect that these are tools to help your imagination, not always a 1:1 representation of what is shown.
"Sorry Barry, I know you got that awesome new +3 Flaming Longsword for your character, but you haven't converted Sir Bartrum's miniature and I can see he is clearly still holding the Axe you had last session so you do not get the extra fire damage against the Troll"
I would prefer things to be 100% perfect and awesome but I also understand there is a balance between cost/benefit in these things.
I agree with you Orlanth. I seem to recall Archon said they were responding to backer feedback and making those pieces bigger than originally planned but I am not sure they will make them big enough. I am ok with the Highlander hut with the recessed floor explanation but the watch tower and swamp hut are not big enough for me.
Monkeysloth wrote: The highlander hut is a real world design from Scandinavia. The hunts generally have a dug down floor so you're stepping down. It's very close to how big some where.
The tower is fine as well. Ladders exist and it looks like things can easily fit in the top without the roof. It will depend on the mini of course but I don't see anything wrong with them.
I have seen follies that size, but those are Victorian edifices and not functional. A watchtower needs room for two guards, and is a good choice for a playable space. I would say 2" interior diameter so there is room for three miniature bases. A tower is a tactically interactive space. It not like Archon dont do interiors.
The hut, I'm not sure if it's based off a real world thing or not, but it's a very common video game design and range from that size to larger. I'm fine with it as is. Sometimes you want something that's just a place for things to stand during combat and don't really care if it's realistic to live in.
I seen them before too, and still don't see the point.. Put the walls on the outside, problem solved.
In the real word design, called a Pit-house, the smoke vent would have been in the front or back at the top of the A frame (above the door frame for example) but the other miniature versions I have via other companies don't have a smoke vent at all.
This is likely the design they're influenced by which is a reproduction in Denmark with person for scale and it's not much larger then what we're getting. The main reason of the ground being dug down, and this was something the celts and others did as well, is it is much better insulation for heat and cold and gives you more room as the sloped roof has a few feet underneath it straight down so you can actually use that area. Or, as in the case with greenland, there's not much wood around so you can use a minimum of the material.
Spoiler:
Here's an image of a saxon version of the house in the UK that shows a stepdown.
I seen them before too, and still don't see the point.. Put the walls on the outside, problem solved.
Then they'd look boring and not serve their purpose as a platform to base archers on when it's placed in the water. That's why I want it. Could care less if it's practical for something to sleep there.
I seen them before too, and still don't see the point.. Put the walls on the outside, problem solved.
Then they'd look boring and not serve their purpose as a platform to base archers on when it's placed in the water. That's why I want it. Could care less if it's practical for something to sleep there.
Place the walls along the outside, along the rim of the roof, simplify the roof so you can have a single piece cast top down. Then have your fan walkway around that. I would sacrifice a visible interior in this case for a larger play piece, and it would mean more space for archers.
Neat. Meanwhile the FedEx truck with my pledges 3 and 4 took a wrong turn at Albuquerque, again. I'm beginning to suspect I'm on some sort of blacklist.
lord_blackfang wrote: Neat. Meanwhile the FedEx truck with my pledges 3 and 4 took a wrong turn at Albuquerque, again. I'm beginning to suspect I'm on some sort of blacklist.
Your parcel is being bounced off both coasts. A problem yes, but allow me to joke at your expense.
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DaveC wrote: New Pathfinder set with half height Tudor walls.
Archon copies other companies pretty unsubtly. During their D&L1 KS, they offered dressed animal companions not long after another company KS'ed the same. Their LOAD game copies DOTA or LoL or something (and plagiarized CMON's Rum and Bones). The company formerly known as Prodos almost put out a game called Space Crusaders or something, etc. etc.
That said, the more companies that follow a standard, the more they all benefit. Not hard to see a hobbyist buying both sets!
I took a look at that for curiosity sake.
The tavern set seen in the linked image in my post was $80, not far short of a one set plus stretchgoal pledge. The furnishing sets are $40 at discount.
Not bad pricing but I still would not bite.
Of course buying an incompatible product at this stage would be lunacy, I am too invested in D&L but if I was coming into this fresh and saw this sale I still would have to think twice before buying.
All in all its not a terrible deal as the discount takes the4 edge of the purchase, and WarLock is better value than Dwarven Forge,l but I would still recommend D&L.
The only product that comes close as a competitor for dungeon tiles is Modular Realm, which is a very good alternative at a reasonable price. And is a completely different product incomperable to all the others, it has its own unique strengths and limitations and is an excellent startpoint for someone who wants instant dungeons in a practical way and believes in less is more. I was solely tempted by Modular Realms even after buying D&L as it scratches a different itch for 3d terrain solutions.
Archon copies other companies pretty unsubtly. During their D&L1 KS, they offered dressed animal companions not long after another company KS'ed the same. Their LOAD game copies DOTA or LoL or something (and plagiarized CMON's Rum and Bones). The company formerly known as Prodos almost put out a game called Space Crusaders or something, etc. etc.
That said, the more companies that follow a standard, the more they all benefit. Not hard to see a hobbyist buying both sets!
I dont mind that, copying a good idea is valid in most cases. Animal companions were not a good idea though. Image what they could have done with a two sprue standalone boxset of generic 28mm fantasy miniatures. We see this in part with Woodhaven, but everything is part of the weird KS theme Archon do. Just give us a boxset of basic races and character classes please, I would settle for common monsters, oh wait, they finally did that. I would have settled for furnishings.
Druid Was Right was just a delivery system for a single component, the vending machine.
I already have the Warlock tavern tiles, and it looks like the Archon stuff has the same slots and thickness to be compatible. Wouldn’t mind adding to my collection if that is the case.
Stormonu wrote: On the Pathfinder-Warlock front … why not both?
I already have the Warlock tavern tiles, and it looks like the Archon stuff has the same slots and thickness to be compatible. Wouldn’t mind adding to my collection if that is the case.
You do you. Buy whatever you like. But compatibility is key. I do, or more accurately soon will mix kits. Namely the DCD caverns mentioned earlier in the thread with D&L, and I will archive that by making my own kitbashed transition tiles for D&L. DCD doesnt have a tile system just irregular cavern walls to link together,
However WarLock is one tile system, and D&L is another, they use different connectors, they certainly do not use the same 'slots' (actually D&L doesnt have slots per se. And are likely also of different size. D&L is not a 1" grid, it has a bit extra to account for wall widths. Height may or may not be similar but at this stage that no longer matters.
Now WarLock furnishings are another matter entirely, and some are very good, but all are far more expensive than other options out there, including D&L, Mantic and Nolzurs. That being said I would like to get hold of a WarLock glowing magic circle set, If I get one I might glue two double D&L tiles together and carve out a hollow to fit the magic circle piece. This is no priority though and the magic circle set is expensive.
I simply do not recommend mixing tile systems. You could have different systems for different purposes. I was tempted to try that with Modular Realms sets as a 'travel' dungeon. A properly invested D&L collection is not exactly portable and while it is rapid there is some set up time. Modular Realms is very fast and a slick solution, you likely wont have a large collection, if you look at it you will see why. But you can take it apart and rebuild on the fly, floors become walls etc.
It's the Archon way. They have to ruin otherwise good figures with "lol random". Here's a great troll you might want multiples of... j/k it's holding a fething cow! The giant is lugging an impractical boulder and isn't in a battle stance. At least the jerkoff goblin was optional. The goblins in DL3 would be great if the one drawing his sword just had it out and the other two weren't posed like jakasses.
I feel like one of their lead designers is one of those morons who yowls for gak like mousing Simpsons or a pack of were-armadillos in every Reaper Bones kickstarter.
Orlanth wrote: So they have two poses of crab and they need to turn one into a joke miniature. Facepalm.
Yeah. I was really excited about the giant crabs but those crabs are not really appealing to me. Disappointing.
Our D&L 3 finally arrived. First impressions are good. The minis look nice… but also look to be on the small side. I will have a better idea once I cut them from the sprue and put some together but so far they look like they are about the size of Perry 28mm figures.
Tip, if you are concerned about mini size, don't be. So long as they are 28mm officially size variance can be accommodated for.
Citadel is an exception, as are companies that mimic Citadel because of the chunkiness of the equipment. For most others including Mantic, most historicals, Frostgrave and archon will all fit in together. Some Reaper minis will.
For the rest. Blend them in, even some Citadel minis. The more manufacturers you add the less scale matters are thankfully most manufacturers choose a height and build for their minis and stick with it. reaper being the notable exception.
By the time you have mixed in all your minis you have a collection that looks like people, short tall, fat thin etc etc. You might need to replace a sword or two to 'standardise' but let the minis be their own size.
Two manufacturers at different interpretations of 28mm can be glaringly out of place, but when you have half a dozen or more, it all fits into place.
- Next D&L project - may be "spell chamber" themed but not town/Woodhaven - D&D based no Sci-Fi - separate project (see Rampart thread)
- Need to better align sculpting team to keep scales and textures consistent - 4 sculptors on team
- Remaining Woodhaven UK parcels shipped by next Tuesday if you have paid the VAT by today. Still having problems with couriers who don't understand paperwork/procedures even at this stage and are applying charges when they shouldn't be - they looked to swap from FedEx but couldn't find a better option.
- About 100 non-UK parcels remain.
- All shipping goes through Germany and strike action there has slowed shipping, data isn't being updated and your parcel might appear to be stuck in Germany but may actually be in transit.
- D&L retail releases not expected until the end of the year at earliest - expected to be more expensive than KS prices - D&L 4 late pledge with rapid delivery cheaper option with earlier delivery.
- Double doors - not something they've considered yet but maybe for D&L 5
- No current plans for Egyptian/Aztec themes or more Kazumi
- Roof shoulder trim needs to be cut to fit properly - it was a design oversight (see picture)
- Curved walls with conical/curved roofs planned.
- City of Absalom sprue supplied in brown plastic - 6 sprues per box
- Townsfolk retail release in September - Contents is as received by backers but without the Crossbowmen sprue (2 figures) as it wouldn't fit in the retail packing.
What does “spell chamber” themed mean? Summoning room? Wizard‘s study? Various takes on that niche?
I still feel like Archon only delivered part of the Woodhaven designs shown in the marketing concept art. Woodhaven feels unfinished. Same with Kazumi Temple. Good ideas only partly executed. This is starting to feel like a trend.
I got my D&L3 big box in the mail and was frankly overwhelmed - had to go back and check that I just had a small pledge... like 2/3 of the box were all the stretch goals and freebies. Can't believe it was only like a hundred bucks.
judgedoug wrote: I got my D&L3 big box in the mail and was frankly overwhelmed - had to go back and check that I just had a small pledge... like 2/3 of the box were all the stretch goals and freebies. Can't believe it was only like a hundred bucks.
Yeah, value for money is good. So much plastic! And while I am not a fan of every piece I like the majority. The only thing really nagging me is the feeling of incompleteness, as if there are so many good ideas started but not finished. And that a lot of the pieces seem more diorama focused than gameplay focused. As if they are being designed by artists and produced by engineers who will not actually play games with the pieces they have crafted.
But that said, there is a lot of great stuff for a relatively low price in the Woodhaven KS.
I bought the Abomination Vaults terrain for playing that adventure path with my group. Big surprise: not a single encounter in that adventure can be setup with the Archon terrain. It‘s too big and there‘re no diagonal walls. The D&L system is unflexible and I won‘t invest another dollar.
My delivery came yesterday, 17.6 KG, delivery was smooth, there was not much of a gap between shipping notification and product arrival, though I am not one of those who was a VAT on delivery customer. I will be receiving an invoice from FedEx soon, and I expect this to be ugly from past experience.
I can expect any number of suspect fees and disbursements, which may or maty not be legal. With D&L2 I researched import laws and successfully fought of a plethora of illegal fees, totalling approximately £120 between my two deliveries, though it got ugly at times and it took nine months to get FedEx to back down.
If the gouge is not excessive I will likely just pay.
Unboxing was not a problem, everything was well packed, though there was no manifest inside, I had to check my Gamefound account to see if everything was ok.
I opened one of almost every box to sate my initial curiosity then started work on a set of stretchgoals.
My thoughts so far.
In general the stretchgoals come with a well documented instruction guide and assembly is increasingly like a Citadel product. In most cases if you deboxed the sprues and ripped the front page of the instruction guide and told me these were Citadel miniatures I would find it difficult to disbelieve you. Yes the sprues say Archon Studio, and the formating is slightly different, I would know, but it would be close. Large monsters are increasingly cast in a GW way, banded curving pieces that don't make any sense to join together but assemble to make a miniature with a delicate dynamic pose. Nothing organic is flat, the 3d jigsaw effect is fully realised and like Citadel products this results in some impressive models. One feature of Citadel that Archon would have been better off not copying is the inclusion of small fragile extremities on large models. The bigger and spindlier it is the most it becomes a snap hazard. GW at least learned by casting a minimum size for protruding details. Archon go all the way, many of the infantry figures (In have only assembled two so far) are exceptionally fragile and I suspect some will be snapped and abandoned. Some larger miniatures are even worse with large portions of large miniatures being connected by thin joins. Pinning may become necessary.
All in all quality is excellent but composition could be improved and many items are overdetailed, as usual for Archon there is a lot of junk and some outscaled items but it is mostly practical and usable and clearly value for money.
While I reboxed most of what I opened I did work with one full set of three stretchgoal boxes at once, and that had a problem in that I often had to do a sprue hunt to find what I wanted to build, not everything was obvious and some items were not listed one the instructions. Please be cautious with assembly, care must be taken to remove the correct piece even with simpler builds.
Now for individual observations. I will go through the entire instruction box page by page and make notes.
Page 3
Bring It On 1 - Don't use a knife on this, use clippers. The chain link between the bell and frame is as thin or thinner than the sprue nubs. I used clipped followed by a soft file on this. Overall a nice piece with simple crisp detail exaggerated for easy painting, though there is a hard shadow for the bell underside so you need to set it low.
Very useful for gaming, getting to or stopping someone getting to the bell is a valid scenario focus during a raid. For 200IQ play you can set the bell tolling with two or three shots from a powerful enough bow, just enough maybe to attract attention. If you have multiple sets you may wish to convert one frame into a winch station, or gibbet, but it is too close to its post for a gallows
From Distant Lands 1 - Use a soft file to remove flash, a hard file will damage detail too easily. With multiple sets consider this item as alternate payload for From Distant Lands 3.
Bring It On 3 - Rather cheaty assembly frankly, which is a shame because it had enough pieces to do a naval cannon properly. Even so I will be keeping mine. These will serve well as carronade. I will mount two on the deck of Sophie's Revenge. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/799743.page This model reminds me of the dwarf cannon from Skull Pass.
The Ultimate Evil 2 - No longer having to bother with trying to convert the useless safe mimic from Druid Is Right. Now he have a decent safe. Tip: For multiple sets you could fill in the keyhole and add a stovepipe and it is a large stove for an affluent guilder's home.
Brute Force Is Needed - Took me a while to realise the 'base' on the other sprue was part of the vault door. I don't mind that it doesn't open. I do mind that the surround isn't generic enough, but I suppose it is different to fit with either the dungeon and castle walls sets.
Page 4
The Odd Training 2 - The wooden stands are not aligned with the ground, If you end up assembling it on its 'tips' you are not building it wrong. Fixable by flat filing.
Living Iron - You can't glue the chest shut, and the lid interior looks ugly. As you need to glue it ajar it might pay to paint it first.
Egg - A tad big. More like ornate column topper.
Page 5
The Fountain - Needed a clear plastic water plume. If anyone knows how to make one, or which colour to paint the waters let me know.
Page 7
And Justice for You - Amend the assembly instructions. After gluing in B11 add B13 to B1 and glue them to the base. Otherwise B13 might not fit. Do not allow to fully dry before completing assembly.
Bring It On 4 - Total waste of a bolt thrower concept. Why the fixed orientation and elevation. I also dislike the exaggerated bowstave curve. Salvageable if you remove everything below I1 and remount.
Page 8
Bring Out your Dead 2 - Decent mobile stall. If you replace E5 with a piece of plasticard you can mount your own wares, or cargo on it for variety. Curious that this is free on the sprue while the lacklustre market stall model was one per backer.
Page 9
Bring out your Dead 1 - The actual corpse cart. The yoke is very low even with full elevation, How is it drawn? Large dog, or do the undertakers apply the yoke to themselves.
Magic Portal is Open! - Archon have made many portal stretchgoals, this is one of only two that I like.
Page 11
Fire Elemental - What is this? A shambling mound, a rope golem?
Page 12
Flesh golem - A surprise hit. I disliked this model until I made it. Now I only dislike the design. The club is too thinly attached. Looks awesome as an undead horror tough, but I would not call it a golem.
Page 13
Giant toad - Archon like to add a heavy coat of whimsy to a lot of their miniatures, usually ruining them. Had the victim in the frogs mouth been part of the model this would be true here. But it is not. And the inclusion of this part used sparingly for one of multiple models makes the piece stand out and draws the screaming victim variant into a positive part of the model. I will leave off the tongue though, it was not executed properly.
Page 25
Iron Golem - I wish it were not so dynamic. I feel Iron Golems should move like frankenstein's monster, slow and inevitable. It will be hard to repose. I have three stretchgoal sets. I built one as intended. I think I can make a classic pose by saccing both of the others.
Page 31
Sewer Mermaid - I like the concept of this for the sewers. excellent piece full of character, decently posed and simple to put together. She does have an obvious seam along her back and tail, this will need to be green stuffed.
Page 37
Sea elemental - I don't like tool using elementals, but this model is cool. Cold enough for an ice elemental perhaps?
Page 38
Temon the Tevil - I ignored this until I saw it on the sprue, then assembled him. I left the cloak off mine. An excellent daemon prince model. Pity the sword sticks out so much.
That is it for now.
I did assemble many small parts like beds and crates but have nothing I need say about them. By and large most furnishings were good, better than previous stretchgoal boxes In fact many of my favourite pieces such as the furniture and bed are good because there is nothing to describe, its a wardrobe, its a bed, its well made and looks wardrobey or beddy.
Todays addition.
Ghost dragon - If you want to not feth this up you MUST stop after assembling all the rock pieces and paint the base fully, then proceed with the dragon. The deep green of the ghost dragon itself is opaque enough you can use plastic glue without clouding being visible.
ced1106 wrote: Great review. Post it in the GameFound comments. Thin spindly bits are not good, and major assembly should be a warning to new assemblers!
I agree, great information that should be made available to backers.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: It's the Archon way. They have to ruin otherwise good figures with "lol random". Here's a great troll you might want multiples of... j/k it's holding a fething cow! The giant is lugging an impractical boulder and isn't in a battle stance. At least the jerkoff goblin was optional. The goblins in DL3 would be great if the one drawing his sword just had it out and the other two weren't posed like jakasses.
I feel like one of their lead designers is one of those morons who yowls for gak like mousing Simpsons or a pack of were-armadillos in every Reaper Bones kickstarter.
QFT. And every potentially useful tree has to have an embedded skeleton, and a seated woman has the must have accessory of a screaming skeleton in her cushion.
Some brainfarts were fixable, the oft mentioned vending machine mimic, the bed mimic can be converted into a worn out bed easily enough, the pentagram and demon face mirror is fine as a one off, for the other mirrors you can file off the detail and wall mount it the other way.
Most were just junk.
I am ok with the troll and giant, both are usable but have no repeat value due to specificity in posing..
The giant will join my O&G army, its a good scale for for a GW giant. I never had one in all the time I collected WHFB as it didnt really fit in my opinion. Giants are not green, they are big humies. So why have one in my horde? Now I have one anyway, and the boulder makes for good ammo.
As for the troll, its now a hill giant. I have plenty of good hill giants from Reaper of similar scale, the three they officially did in Bones 5 and the three headed giant which I convert into a one headed giant. Shoulder width is actually the same and leather pauldrons make conversion easy. That makes four. Having a hill giant carrying a stolen cow is not unreasonable, there was one on the GW giant kit, and is an option with the D&D frameworks kit, and its a feature of artwork for lower giants. I just did an image search on Google for 'Hill Giants' and did not have to scroll down far to find multiple images of giants carry livestock.
I can forgive Archon for the cow, where they lose out in any repeat sales. Yes these were one per backer items, but presumably Archon want to sell these sprues as stand alone kits. With a bit of thought and a could of options for arm poses and head swaps and the is room to sell multiple kits to customers.
At least Archon listened and made the phoenix armour optional. Perhaps we should have spoken out more about the other things we saw and got Archon to listen for their own good. The phoenix is ready to be a decent retail kit because they had options to make the mini sensible or weird.
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Grumpy Gnome wrote: What does “spell chamber” themed mean? Summoning room? Wizard‘s study? Various takes on that niche?
I still feel like Archon only delivered part of the Woodhaven designs shown in the marketing concept art. Woodhaven feels unfinished. Same with Kazumi Temple. Good ideas only partly executed. This is starting to feel like a trend.
Grumpy Gnome, to be frank here if you are using D&L for buildings rather than more sewers/dungeons you are asking for trouble. It can never be more than part finished. You can get away with 10'x10' grid for dungeons, though some complain there are no curves or diagonals. However housing by 10'x10' grid is harder to justify, it just looks wrong.
As was explained during the campaign, D&L is a very substandard product for fantasy housing, I highly recommend you use Zvezda, TTW, 3d print or laser cut, with D&L parts to customise. It is not cost effective, or particularly attractive and the versatility you do get is not really worth it. Woodhaven as intended really just doesn't work., it is still useful though, individual Woodhaven pieces glued onto a laser cut building will add featuring and texture to a bland product.
I didn't regret buying one of each of the Woodhaven boxes, minus the roof set, its a nice mix of tiles for dungeons, the streets set in particular greatly extends the amount of dungeon floor tiles I have, and adds another texture and small elevation changes in the dungeon flooring which I am very happy with. I am less happy that they added extra ?moss clumps? texture to the castle set, as the preproduction samples fit in with the dungeons very nicely.
There is one circumstance where I would use Woodhaven as intended, partly, and that is for back street 'dungeons'. Use Woodhaven pieces as regular 'dungeon' D&L, single storey only, no roofs, no interiors, and use it for when players chase someone into tight back alleys, or got there intentionally to evade pursuit. Sort of things adventurers do in cities. A small amount of Woodhaven can be used to portray narrow unmapped streets.
While the dungeon walls are hovels, they might as well be dungeon walls to the party. Residents wont let adventurers in, for fear of reprisal from one group or other, or just being robbed themselves.
judgedoug wrote: I got my D&L3 big box in the mail and was frankly overwhelmed - had to go back and check that I just had a small pledge... like 2/3 of the box were all the stretch goals and freebies. Can't believe it was only like a hundred bucks.
I know, I piled up the free stuff and the paid stuff and marvelled...
judgedoug wrote: I got my D&L3 big box in the mail and was frankly overwhelmed - had to go back and check that I just had a small pledge... like 2/3 of the box were all the stretch goals and freebies. Can't believe it was only like a hundred bucks.
I know, I piled up the free stuff and the paid stuff and marvelled...
Plastic is very cheap. The economic model Archon is using does work. Your hundred dollars makes this a win even with massive stretchgoals. This only becomes a problem when you account for shipping cost increases.
I have added, and will continue to add to my model part review on this page.
Orlanth, I recall us discussing this previously. Mrs. GG and I intend to use the D&L pieces as “terrain bits box fodder” for more permanent structures than the original Woodhaven concept. This is in part due to Archon seeming to not quite finish the good ideas they started with. They should also bash up nicely to create ruins.
Mrs. GG and I are pretty happy with the first impressions of our D&L 3 pledge which finally arrived.
> Grumpy Gnome, to be frank here if you are using D&L for buildings rather than more sewers/dungeons you are asking for trouble.
Well, for gaming terrain, I think it's fine. I'm playing Lasting Tales, and it calls for buildings of certain sizes, such as 4x6. I can make such buildings with modular game tiles better than fixed-sized houses.
(Of course, I back the campaigns for the stretch goals and the game tiles.)
> I highly recommend you use Zvezda, TTW, 3d print or laser cut, with D&L parts to customise.
Not that I'm not looking for better-looking houses! I have some resin OOP Epyx houses. Roofs are too darn heavy, so I just use open buildings.
Tabletop Workshop is 28mm, but it's $30 per house plus shipping. I just added myself to the Warlord mailing list on the offchance they'll have a sale. If you know where I can get 'em cheap, lemme know. I do know that, unlike shiny miniatures, once you have six buildings, a game mat (I use the OOP Terra Tiles), and some terrain (Mantic Terrain Crates), you don't need any more, unless you make a gaming table for another genre (eg. sf).
https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/tabletop-workshop
I hear good things about Battlesystems and Clever Paper cardstock terrain. Obviously not the same as wood (or plastic), and even Clever Paper is in the $20 range for a building. I did pick up the way OOP Terraclips when they were on sale, and it's not bad, but not as sturdy as plastic or wood. Should look closer at Etsy.
You should be able to find these kits in the US. I did import my more modern kits from Germany, and several older kits from France. There are numerous variants of them, most older but the Hanse Kogge and the Medieval Stone Castle got a rerelease. You wont be able to get new stock from Russia and most of us wont want to anyway, but existing/old stock turns up frequently.
1. The one you would probably benefit most from is the Royal Castle, as it has extended walls, and extra pieces not in the more basic set. It can be very expensive but not always, I had some shop soiled copies from a small local store outside Paris which had evidently been sitting on a shelf for a long time. Because its 1:72 and rather big it gets overlooked by wargamers. Don't make that mistake, the single component that is 1:72 are the doors, everything else, and I do mean everything , from the crenelation to parapet height to window height is 28mm.
There is one downside to this series of kits, the walls are very short, you need height extension from either the Royal Castle set, or by having multiple sets and salvaging extra walls and towers to give height to others.
The positives outweigh this, the castle set is modular on a square grid, you can build towers with different orientations of wall connector. You are linked to 90 degree turns but that is ok for a castle set. There is little interior decor and you will need to line internal walls, but internal floors are details and it is easy enough to decorate the keep or make it multi level interior. Towers are too narrow for effective interiors, you can however easily make internal templates from excess parts which you can have separate to the castle and bring out to represent interiors for action.
You will need 28mm doors, but that is easy to make.
2. The cog is 28mm listed as 1:72. Increase the height of the castle parapet with a line of plasticard under the fore and aft castles and it now fits 28mm. It is odd that the artwork in the kit shows the cog as a 28mm project, judging from the size of the crew. According to wiki the ship as scaled at 28mm is average to large for a medieval cog. I cannot recommend this kit enough. Zvezda do three variants, Hanse Kogge, English Ship Thomas, and Crusader ship, each with only one sprue difference and almost identical. Only Hanse Kogge got a re-release. This kit was originally made by Revell and produced under licence. You might find the Revell original, but that is long OOP.
Why am I listing a ship as a building? Because for a tabletop RPG point of view it is, you just add it to blue rather than green cloth and move it around more often.
The orange band is plasticard. These are 28mm models on e '1/72' ship. Make the band slightly higher if you use heroic scale minis.
What makes this kit extra special is the fact that the lower hull is a seperate piece, you can take it off at the waterline. You could magnetise and leave the lower hull on its display stand and use that for storage. You could use the lower hull as an interior template, you will ned to add internal detail yourself with cardstock, or you could add the lower hull to a flight stand add a couple of side sails and have the model do double duty as a ship or skyship. There is a lot of room for fun here.
3. This kit is 28mm. I do not have own it, yet. But saw it many times at Salute and walked past it. Typical European wooden castle, the most common kind and the easiest stronghold for the party to make and most common to be encountered out on the frontier.
In all three cases you need to keep an eye out for pot luck. These kits turn up, and because of their size being too much for playsets and their listed scale being incompatible they are easily overlooked. So they come up at a wide range of prices and only gamers in the know are after them. Be patient and you can get ebay deals. Many of the copies I see listed are in the US, quietly gobble them up when the price suits you.
Tabletop Workshop is 28mm, but it's $30 per house plus shipping. I just added myself to the Warlord mailing list on the offchance they'll have a sale. If you know where I can get 'em cheap, lemme know. I do know that, unlike shiny miniatures, once you have six buildings, a game mat (I use the OOP Terra Tiles), and some terrain (Mantic Terrain Crates), you don't need any more, unless you make a gaming table for another genre (eg. sf).
https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/tabletop-workshop
I highly recommend Tabletop Workshop, but as a UK based Dakkaite I give recommendations from my own perspective. It is a pity there is not a Yank who makes posts like this, I am sure there are lesser known companies in the US, some dead, some going, that bear similarity to TTW.
Yes you can get this cheap, there is one ebayer who does multi-deals of TTW houses and castles. They are open for negotiation for bulk buy. I cut a deal for 15 buildings and a castle in 2020 at a very reasonable price. If you 'Skyrimise' your game 15 buildings plus is enough for a reasonable size town. It's more housing than Whiterun.
Warlord does licence old stock, but I don't think they have exclusive access to the molds. The ebayers get restocks somehow and can sell bulk and are way cheaper than warlord.
A note on TTW buildings, they are true 28mm, so you need new doors for fantasy. I leave interior doors alone, the kits being fully detailed inside and out, and think you only really need to replace the outside door facing, this can be done with a thin facade.
Two of the houses are two storey and there is a lift out wooden floor section with a hatch hole, you need to provide the ladder or stairs yourself.
The interiors are wide enough for tight encounters, you can fit six models inside easily enough but combat will be contact and interposition only, no room for maneuver. You can use the buildings for hidden sniper archers and house to house skirmish games, or just as a high detail diorama for the character models to be immersed in.
I hear good things about Battlesystems and Clever Paper cardstock terrain. Obviously not the same as wood (or plastic), and even Clever Paper is in the $20 range for a building. I did pick up the way OOP Terraclips when they were on sale, and it's not bad, but not as sturdy as plastic or wood. Should look closer at Etsy.
Sarissa Precision is worth a look, as is Warcradle, (and Hab Block for SF).
Little off-topic: could any of you guys, who own Archon's Draculus The Cunning dragon, please post a size comparison pics with both human and not human (trolls etc.) sized miniatures? I am thinking of buying it but I am not sure if it is not too small.
Shadow Walker wrote: Little off-topic: could any of you guys, who own Archon's Draculus The Cunning dragon, please post a size comparison pics with both human and not human (trolls etc.) sized miniatures? I am thinking of buying it but I am not sure if it is not too small.
Hardly off topic.
Sadly I don't have a camera available but:
Head including horns is roughly one inch cubed. each wing is four inches long by two inches of wing membrane.
Model on flight stand stands a tad under 6 inches tall, it has a 50mm base.
There are far larger dragons out there, but Draculus is perfectly fine for gaming and is quite capable of inflicting TPK without you having to make excuses for the model. Too small, too big, that depends on the age of the dragon and the game background.
In D&D it is big enough to classify as a huge creature, even though it is on a 50mm base, because it is perched on a narrow rock and is less spaced out than it naturally would be with four legs on the ground. A 3" base or chariot base is quite appropriate despite the pose, though it fits nicely on 2" or the base it has. For 3.5e that means it is a fit for mature adult to ancient black dragon, however the dragon is on the smaller side of huge. In 5e it would also make an adult dragon. However dragons models have been since upscaled quite a bit.
In other comparisons it is a very large miniature for the point of traditional D&D, and is broadly comparable to old WHFB dragons in size, though the Citadel plastic dragon wings were much bulkier.
Dragons are getting a lot bigger of late. I am not up for that as the old scale looked dangerous enough and more reasonable.
Draculus and the other Archon dragons would not look out of place in a Warhammer army, or fighting 28mm adventurers. I use Thall for my Vampire Counts army and the rest are staples for D&D.
@Orlanth - big thanks for all info Two more questions:
1. Are the dragons properly balanced on those 50mm bases? I am a bit worried that they could fall a lot.
2. How long it takes for Archon campaign products to reach retail? I am only interested in a box of elven woods so no point to back that campaign.
1. Are the dragons properly balanced on those 50mm bases? I am a bit worried that they could fall a lot.
Yes, and no. I have not had much problems with them as the plastic is light, but it does overhang the provided bases a lot. They are not unstable, but it doesnt take too much to knock one over and they will be less stable than most if resting on a slope.
There is no way to test this as if the slope is steep enough any miniature will topple over, however a ripper base will be stable longer than a space marine which will be stable longer than a dragon.
The good news is that if you want to use the provided bases they are hollow like GW (and most other) bases are, so you can counterweight with lead shot weights if you need to. A small box of shot is a standard hobbyists tool, I use them particularly for counterweighting standard bearers.
2. How long it takes for Archon campaign products to reach retail? I am only interested in a box of elven woods so no point to back that campaign.
A lot of them never do, and releases are sporadic. Some kits also get replaced for retail. D&L Dwarven Mine has not come out in retail, but Pathfinder Dwarven Mine, which is a different product produced afterwards.
Change your mind about backing Woodhaven.
Go to Gamefound and make a pledge. Try and see if you can get in for Woodhaven. Archon will take your money and process it. If Gamefound doesn't do this message Archon and try another way. If you don't make a pledge for new stock you can choose early delivery, and it will be batched sooner, You don't need any Encounters to enjoy the benefits of the Encounters pledge campaign, and Archon is reliable and good for the money.
Ok. You can late pledge for Encounters from the 8th, from history this should be at the same price with all the stretchgoals, minus any which are listed as early bird freebies. AFAIK there arent any this time, in previous campaigns you got a free mini for backing early. Even so it was available afterwards.
This is a D&L campaign, so it should have all the legacy items in the pledge manager.
Also if you manage to wangle in a late Dragons Lair pledge, you need not pay $31 per dragon. You get six for approx 100 Euro instead. This may or may not be a saving from your perspective, but the dragons are worth it IMHO. That is why my second order of D&L2 included a second Dragons Lair pledge. I managed to order a second delivery after receiving the first for D&L2. So I had twenty dragons from that campaign, and gave away several.
I didn't buy them all at once, I came back for more at $11 each, and believed they were not only good enough for my own use, but as meaningful gifts; and they were very well received because they are good kits. This should tell you all you need to know.
Small update: The pledge manager will likely have to be launched tomorrow or on Friday. The reason for the delay is because we're unsure whether the weight of the free Leshy miniature is counted when making your order, which might lead to unforseen shipping costs not displayed in the pledge manager which is something we want to avoid. We're very sorry about the delay, however we're commited to providing the best service possible and we ask for your understanding.
Very impressed with my pledge.You do get a lot for your money on these KS projects.
One thing which seems to happen a lot is that most of the miniatures suffer from the foot on a rock or such object syndrome.
Only made up most of the larger models which are quite impressive.Also made some of the miniatures up and scenic items.Love the cart and stall models.
Anyone know when or if the Sci-Fi scenery KS project will have a late pledge manager option?Missed out on that one.
That's locked until after they deliver - which was due to start last week but seems to have slipped back due to D&L 3 shipping and summer holidays it should reopen after delivery which will take 4 to 6 weeks.
I tried to just quote the picture of the Cog... But ... i am not good with the quoting. Thank you for showing this. Its on my list now. That looks really nice
That's locked until after they deliver - which was due to start last week but seems to have slipped back due to D&L 3 shipping and summer holidays it should reopen after delivery which will take 4 to 6 weeks.
Initially I wrote 'Yes you can'. Then thought better of it as I can see the pledge manager options but a new backer might not.
As I was able I back twice on multiple projects including Rampart 1, and backed D&L after hearing about it at time of fulfilment, and still got my order in. I made two D&L orders at the cusp of the campaign of their successors, when everything was supposedly closed down. I have no problems believing Archon Studio will take manic-miner's money, if for some technical reason they do not, I suggest he message them and wave his dollars about. He will then get what he wants.
I tried to just quote the picture of the Cog... But ... i am not good with the quoting. Thank you for showing this. Its on my list now. That looks really nice
I bought FOUR. Average cost £30. They are listed at far higher prices than that, be patient and you will get one (or more) at a fair price..
Search under multiple names:
Revell Hanse Kogge
Zvezda Hanse Kogge
Zvezda Medieval Ship Tomas
Zvezda Crusader Ship (I havent got this one).
The kits are 90% identical, and you will need some modelling skills to raise the platforms by about 1cm (for 28mm heroic) and heighten the platform walls by about 6mm (for all 28mm) in order to fit. Widening the hatches would also be good, but you can get away without. The ladders ought to be replaced, and will downscale to window clears ladders, but are workable. You could add them to a different model and make better ladders though.
I am preparing a game for Salute 2023 including a fantasy fleet, hence why I bought four, and some Sarissa Precision cogs also, the latter are much smaller, which is fine as cogs varied a lot in size.
By medieval formula the Zvezda/Revell cog is 65ft long beam of 25 feet, and has a capacity of just under 200 tons burthen, around the upper limit of most cogs. Though a rare few were much larger. The Sarissa Precision is 36ft long and under 50 tons burthen. This makes the ships nicely delimitered for RPG's.
they're offering rapid delivery (for a cost) for the pre-existing stuff as normal
Which items are available in the Rapid Delivery option?
Encounters Set - Elven Woods
Encounters Add-ons - Modular River
All the Legacy add-ons.
Dates and schedules
We went a little off the trail regarding our Timetable, so here's the most updated information you need. Pledge Manager starts on the 11th of August 2022, so we expand the time of closure to the 12th of January 2023.
Along with Pledge Manager, we're also launching the Rapid Delivery option. It will be available from the 11th of August till the 12th of October.
so if you want stuff from D&L 3 this is probably going to be the way to go especially if your not a backer already
Adding the Rapid Delivery option is a bit odd you have to add the RD pledge level to your cart and delete the original pledge for example add RD Hero to the cart - you now have RD Hero and a regular Hero in your cart if you chose that during the campaign - now delete the original Hero - it won't affect your free Leshy mini.
Hero shipping is €30 (EU middle 1) original estimate €29 so very close but it can jump quickly I added entrances and 2 Goblin huts and that bumped it another €14 but taking 1 hut out brought it back to €30 so there's weight threshold that's not far over the Hero pledge on it's own.
I think getting a second Stretch goals set from this KS will be the way to go to get multiples of some of the items which will be useful.Extra trees and plants along with the huts and such will always come in handy.I do like the look of the shamans hut.
Might get a roof pack or two and some of the balustrades to try to make a balcony.May also come in for kit bash projects.
manic _miner wrote: I think getting a second Stretch goals set from this KS will be the way to go to get multiples of some of the items which will be useful.Extra trees and plants along with the huts and such will always come in handy.I do like the look of the shamans hut.
Might get a roof pack or two and some of the balustrades to try to make a balcony.May also come in for kit bash projects.
The huts are one per backer as they made them slightly larger so getting an extra SG box won't get you those as they're in a separate add on.
Shadow Walker wrote: Emailed Archon about availability of Elven Woods post campaign, and got an answer that it will not be available in a normal sale.
Odd that they're not going to retail with that set. Maybe they're going to break it up into smaller boxes?
Yeah, hopefully there will be something to buy later. Weird decision anyway as I think that one would be their bestseller compared to other 3 terrains from the campaign.
It's probably more likely that they'll split the trees from the rocks for retail as there have been a lot of requests for the trees on their own - but their retail strategy is so weird it's hard to know.
DaveC wrote: It's probably more likely that they'll split the trees from the rocks for retail as there have been a lot of requests for the trees on their own - but their retail strategy is so weird it's hard to know.
Exactly, it is like they do not want too much money or something. Also like people already said about things like swarms, giant ants etc. - why produce 2-3 when most time a player/GM would need at least 10 or more?
I wonder if they've found they need an extra sprue to fit everything in meaning it's not going to work at the retail price point (more from weight/volume than the cost of the extra plastic)
so it doesn't get to go to retail as is (although they might be able to do a cut down version with less content if they can juggle placing the bits on the sprues right)
Automatically Appended Next Post: and on the topic of elven woods the fan group on facebook has some neat stuff from one of the painters that got early access to some of the stuff
Kuba Sawicki ·
Some might be thinking how many sets they need from the encounters campaign. As some might remember (and if not I'll repost the pictures as last ones) that I've painted an alternate version of the Elven woods hills. It had an underwater/magical/icy feel. I came up with two additional color schemes - lava and wasteland bloody river. Maybe it will inspire someone. It's only an elven woods set by name
manic _miner wrote: I think getting a second Stretch goals set from this KS will be the way to go to get multiples of some of the items which will be useful.Extra trees and plants along with the huts and such will always come in handy.I do like the look of the shamans hut.
Might get a roof pack or two and some of the balustrades to try to make a balcony.May also come in for kit bash projects.
The huts are one per backer as they made them slightly larger so getting an extra SG box won't get you those as they're in a separate add on.
Where did you see that post?
Looking at the stretch goal extra set for £40 you would get the whole lot of stretch goals shown in the graphic.
manic _miner wrote: I think getting a second Stretch goals set from this KS will be the way to go to get multiples of some of the items which will be useful.Extra trees and plants along with the huts and such will always come in handy.I do like the look of the shamans hut.
Might get a roof pack or two and some of the balustrades to try to make a balcony.May also come in for kit bash projects.
The huts are one per backer as they made them slightly larger so getting an extra SG box won't get you those as they're in a separate add on.
Where did you see that post?
Looking at the stretch goal extra set for £40 you would get the whole lot of stretch goals shown in the graphic.
The Stagecoach - Super Stretch Goal
Swamp Hut
Watch Tower
Highlander Hut
Cage
Ygris - Super Stretch Goal
Enchanted Tree - Super Stretch Goal
Tree of Spirits - Super Stretch Goal
Thos the Dragon - Super Stretch Goal
and if you click on the Encounters pack you get the description that excludes one per backer SGs
Encounters Stretch Goals pack €40.00
Does not include items marked as "One per backer".
It may be worth your while to create a second Gamefound account and get another pledge as you will count as a separate backer and get a full set of SG plus the one per backer stuff.
Shadow Walker wrote: Emailed Archon about availability of Elven Woods post campaign, and got an answer that it will not be available in a normal sale.
That's disappointing. Those trees were the only thing I really wanted out of this campaign, but the cost-to-tree ratio caused me to allocate hobby budget elsewhere in the hope that they would be available on their own later.
Guess I'll have to do a late pledge in a few months once GLORIOUS DREADNOUGHTS stop dominating my wallet.
It would be easier if the SG box for £40 had a graphic for what you get.Makes it easier to see for everyone and lets them know to order other sets from the Add-on section.
Hanskrampf wrote: Did I miss anything? What has opened up?
I didn't receive a mail. Do I need to do anything?
Pledge manager has been open a few days, there's been issues with the emails but you don't need one just log into your Gamefound account and go to the project to complete the PM plenty of time it's open until December. Remember to select your themes from the dropdown options or you will get all of the default option and if you want rapid delivery you need to add an RD pledge level and delete the original pledge level - there's no RD option on it's own.
Hanskrampf wrote: Did I miss anything? What has opened up?
I didn't receive a mail. Do I need to do anything?
Pledge manager has been open a few days, there's been issues with the emails but you don't need one just log into your Gamefound account and go to the project to complete the PM plenty of time it's open until December. Remember to select your themes from the dropdown options or you will get all of the default option and if you want rapid delivery you need to add an RD pledge level and delete the original pledge level - there's no RD option on it's own.
Ah, Encounters. Thanks. Just had shipping to add, I think you could already select the sets you want during the pledge as it was all already like I wanted it.
I agree it's a shame they haven't modified the tent slightly (even if they just left off the shield and other bits round the base it would have looked distinct enough and that shouldn't have needed much if any sculpting time
hopefully it's just they rushing to get this (rapid delivery) theme done and they'll have a bit more time to think about things on the other themes where small changes will improve the look a lot
Oh dear. Archon never learn. They make high detailed models then copypasta them. If you are going to put two tents on a sprue and dont want them simplified and uniform, sculpt each differently. Noe every tent gets the same log and the same shield.
This is a nice tent, great for a single model but this really puts the brakes on repeat sales.
Yeah, I definitely see the benefit of not molding the same model twice as it doesn't make the most sense.
The only thing I can think of is they paid for the sculpt designs and got past that phase and then discovered extra room/requirement and rather than paying for modifications to make 2 tents they just used the resources on hand.
- D&L 3 UK delivery still has issues. 200 UK pledges left to ship awaiting VAT payment - invoices issued but not paid follow up emails next week (check spam folders if you are still waiting)
- Need to close out the Woodhaven project this quarter.
- Looking at other options for future UK shipping possibly set up a UK branch for shipping and sales - probably not for Encounters shipping though.
- 5% of backers never respond or close PM - Products for UK market might end up more expensive as a result of additional costs that are being incurred and could be incurred if they set up a branch.
- Encounters project update see image below. Elven Woods tooled and in production, Swamps of Doom in tooling. In tooling does not mean production is near or that it might get bumped to rapid delivery. Mighty Merman is the internal name they used for the boat sprue.
- Encounters shipping January or February
- River - large - 2 sections takes up a full sprue, 2 sprue designs in set. Wider than older sets so not compatible straight out of the box - stand alone kit.
- Oak tree to be produced next week
- Creature pack 6 to 8 tools depending on layout which they are currently working on.
- Land of Giants - designed no tools cut or scheduled yet
- Using Aluminum tools - casting pressure on tools will very longevity - maximum life 120,000 sprues but can be less.
- Elven and Swamp most popular themes in PM so far (about level), Creatures not far behind, Land of Giants least popular by a good bit.
- Encounters Base pack - oversight was on the list to be added to PM - they'll add it soon.
- Assembly instructions on Archon website - working on update to have it open in browser rather than pdf download
- Adding extra shifts for manufacturing - night shifts (rather than adding more machines)
- Mentioned a skirmish fantasy game and possibly a Rank and File game in development.
I hope some of the branches are interchangeable or it's going to get very samey. Going by their sprue sizes the Oak tree is about 5 inches tall, The current GW Wyldwood is 6 inches and the old Citadel Woods are about 4.5 inches depending on build so these sit somewhere between the 2.
I like that they modeled the inside of the tree stump so you can do fallen trees.
Whether intentionally so I do not know, but the holes seem the same size for major and minor branches, so you can swap those. If they are not it is not beyonf filing and using green stuff for any connectors. You should also be able to pin and reposition the branches also and turn branch sockets into tree boles.
I see zero problems with making these trees all different with the sprue shown.
However Archon Studio might not of themselves have thought of that, they have proven poor at variating items on sprues and adding specific details to generic items which makes them hard to repeat. I would not be surprised if they are all the same tree, there are enough branches that we have good material to work with.
Hope Archon checked to see how many people "selected" 4 Elven sets!
I selected 6 Elven Woods sets... Two of us pledged and it worked for one of us to get Rapid Delivery for all of the Elven Woods pack from both pledges. Everything else (Swamps and Creatures) went into the other non-RD pledge.
Looks like they might be moving up Rapid Delivery from October so lock in you RD pledges sooner rather than later.
And another tree in production miniature for scale (32mm scale). The entire Elven Woods set is now done, and the river should be in production next week, meaning Rapid deliveries will start much quicker than planned. Thanks!
Hanskrampf wrote: Are the "Entrances" included in the main pledge or only available as an addon?
Add on only.
I thought they were going to hide the clips under the river banks? they are visible under the water in the final design. I think they should have gone with the two 45 degree pieces suggestion over the 90 degree.
Retail releases October 6th -
Townsfolk set USD$59 (TBC)
Ghost Dragon USD $31
Encounters
- Swamp Tree is tooled and done
- Encounters bases - not designed yet so they can't price it or add it to the PM at this stage. Might be added later but not before rapid delivery pledges need to be closed.
- Retail releases - nothing that hasn't already shipped to backers also dependent on what retailers want to order so not everything will go to retail.
- Swamps getting a big dead fish as there was sprue space
- Tree branches are interchangeable
- Ahead of target - decision on possible revised PM closing date at end of November - might ship early and leave PM open but your pledge won't ship until PM is completed.
Goobertown has a new video showing some of the sprues and tools
- Next D&L project - Heroes or Villains
monopose bosses - bringing back some of the old resin designs (LOAD, RELOAD, VoW, Chronicle X) in HIPS (150 to 200 designs available to use)
Fantasy and sci-fi minis
Q1 2023 subject to Encounters being finished
- Further D&L terrain project planned after Heroes or Villains
- No further retail releases this year for previous D&L stuff beyond those already announced
- No plans to retire anything already tooled but not yet released - retail release is a matter of timing
- D&L Encounters -
new sprues tooled (see pictures) - LoG sprues, creature pack sprues,
Need to finish tooling and manufacturing in December due to energy price rises in January that aren’t budgeted for
new sculpts completed
Female Giant (50mm base)
Entrances
Dwarf Entrance (12cm tall)
Spider eggs and various scatter bits
General
- Manufacturing for 6/7 customers 20% of capacity to customers there is always spare capacity between projects so they can fit them in
- Archon can now tool and manufacture cheaper than China where tooling is outsourced. Due to China delays they will lose money on MOTU Fields of Eternia.
- plan to reduce KS to 20% of business (20% customer services, 60% retail). 2 KS in 2023 Feb and June minis only no new board games until they can do everything in house.
- There’s an interesting case study on KS costs with a breakdown
8% fees
10% license fee
12% Taxes (averaged figure)
8% Development
26% tooling and manufacturing
5% to 8% advertising
31% profit (assuming no overspends or delays) to cover all overheads and keep the business running in the interim. Not to mention shipping costs which should be kept separate but may eat into the profit if incorrect,
MOTU Battleground has sold better as a retail only release in staged releases than FoE has as a KS. Lower initial investment and generates ongoing income over time vs 1 and done KS model.
Gamefound has stricter rules on multiple campaigns and undelivered projects.
I happen to like a lot of their older sculpts, I'm more concerned with what the size will end up like.
Some of the Woodhaven stuff was really tiny, especially the humans.
I get the feeling this heroes and villains thing is replacing their idea of offering STL files for their models from a while back.
I don't see a problem with them repurposing older designs that aren't getting much use these days.
I have their LOAD Unicast (?) and the miniatures look great. But, yeah, they are unusual, and I haven't found much use for them. (Haven't gotten around to playing LOAD because of the negative reviews.) Well, I'll just see the prices for the miniatures and go from there! (:
They could post pics of every mini from that pack in small groups (5-6 minis) like on the first photo, so the customer could look properly what is inside, but instead they chose to post two pics of the entire collection.
I didn’t have time to catch the full AMA but picked up some bits from it
- Heroes and Villians will be 32 to 35mm scale they acknowledge that a lot of companies have moved on from 28mm so they need to as well. Full height details will be given for each mini in the crowdfunder.
- Encounters rapid delivery from 4th November
- Backers will get 4 sets (base on pledge level I assume) of the new forest bases - more than is required. I didn’t hear anything about them being sold separately but I didn’t listen to the full AMA.
- D&L Encounters rapid delivery started today - 400 parcels out (as before there can be a backend delay in notifications)
- Next D&L retail release planned for end of January
- new sprues tooled see pictures
- Cart and Dwarven Entrance tooled - bases tool being cut
- extra base packs will be added to PM soon (after next update)
D&L Heroes or Villains includes hardback bestiary with D&D rules for the minis
- 32mm to 35mm scale minis
- new scenic base sprue (25 and 50mm)
- some terrain SGs included
lord_blackfang wrote: Pressure to change scales must have been massive if they're making the next campaign incompatible with Woodhaven/Encounters
With any luck their 32mm range will be as underscaled as their 28mm range, so we end up with 28mm.
Truth be told, Archon make too many rash promises with their stretchgoals and then I suspect belatedly realised that humanoid miniatures take up a lot of sprue space each, and that they had to squeeze down to squeeze in.
People did genuinely and reasonably complain about the undersized miniatures, and that was capitalised upon by the minority after 32mm+. I said so before and will say so again 28mm is still where it is at, 32mm+ is good for some skirmish, but is a bad scale for terrain heavy battles, and is frankly unnecessary. 28mm is still the mainstay, has most of the major companies working this scale and nearly all the terrain including Archon themselves.
However defending 28mm is not done often as most gamers are asleep to the potential loss, while the handful of people who want the upward scaleshift are very vocal indeed.
It will be fine for Archon do do their own small scale (sic) 32mm+ miniatures line, but if they follow that as a general trend for their core competency, terrain, they will end up losing money over it.
lord_blackfang wrote: Pressure to change scales must have been massive if they're making the next campaign incompatible with Woodhaven/Encounters
Perhaps or maybe the minis they are drawing from are just bigger to begin with? - I'm not familiar with their old resins - so it's easier to say they are 32mm+? They haven't shown any human sized minis yet that will be the true sign that they have rescaled if they are bigger.
I do hope they have a book free pledge as well, I've no use for it and a hardback book will just add to the weight for shipping.
Hanskrampf wrote: Oh god, not 35mm giants. Let's hope they really settle on 32mm halfway-realistic proportions.
Proportion and scale are independent of each other, and the larger the scale the fewer excuses you have for heroic proportion, which mostly revolves around the durability of the model. We got heroic proportions because of old school metal castings and the need to add paintable detail in miniatures durable enough for tabletop play.
Reasonable proportion miniatures are perfectly possible for modern plastics, even the poster boys for heroic proportion, Citadel, have an established history of pulling off large range of realistic proportion miniatures with the Middle Earth franchises, and they didnt need to go over 28mm to do so.
The boat is the right kind of wrong. Exaggerated wood details which means it will look great with just a brown spray primer and a wash. Exaggerated proportions so you can fit several 25mm bases on it I suspect it will take seven without overlap, depending on whether you can slip the rims under the bench.
Hmm, I'd love to have a couple of boats for Frostgrave, but I don't really care about the rest of the swamp terrain. Pity you can't get them separately.
Oguhmek wrote: Hmm, I'd love to have a couple of boats for Frostgrave, but I don't really care about the rest of the swamp terrain. Pity you can't get them separately.
Oguhmek wrote: Hmm, I'd love to have a couple of boats for Frostgrave, but I don't really care about the rest of the swamp terrain. Pity you can't get them separately.
If you buy directly from Reaper, wait until their "12 Days of Christmas" promotion in December. (Reaper should have a BF sale as well.)
Dreasdmere Rowing Boat
I have two of this boat. I didn't get it on the Kickstarter (Bones 4) because I didnt like the Dreadmere set it was part of. I bought all I wanted from Dreadmere as single later and was happy with this choice.
The boat is cheap if you look for it.
What I did get in the Kickstarter (Bones 5) was Brinewind Expansion. I didnt buy Brinewind with the skeletons and pirates, I don't generally do a pirate theme as it ia too out of genre, I go medieval for RPG rather than gunpowder age, so any sailors I have are medieval miniatures and my ships are cogs, both Sarissa Precision Cog, or Zvezda Hanse Kogge, and I highly recommend both these kits.
But the Pirate City of Brinewind set is very nice. As with all Reaper sets there is some fillerjunk, but the mainstays are good.
A very nice large rowboat with a sail, two round tables and chairs, a wagon, several barrels and crates and four square 10'x10' deck sections. I regretted only buying one. So I bought two more in retail packaging at a reasonable price.
These are proproduction models, both boats are the same size as those above but different in design.
Dreadmere rowboat
Spoiler:
Brinewind sloop, image is large
The smaller rowboat called Dreadmere Rowboat is sold singly, it can fit two miniatures, It has cast in fishing nets and a hole to place a basket of fish at the stern you can fill this hole in. There are two small oars and a couple of loose fish. These are easy to lose. I recommend making a ^ of the two oars and then placing them on the rowboat, or gluing them flat to the deck next o each other so they don't interfere with miniature placement. One quaint feature missing in the above
The main downside of this boat is that while it is helpful to have more than one the boat has patch repairs and distress, this looks odd if you have more than one.
I had two so I took the time to file away the external planking on one and make it 'newer'. It mostly worked and was less trouble than it first looked as the plastic was easy to work.
If you don't glue fish to the bottom separate them entirely to add to plates in a tavern or something, meanwhile secure them in a tight container in your bitz collection or you will lose them.
The Brinewind Sloop is not available singly to my knowledge, only in the Pirate City boxset, which I believe to be worth the price. First it is not a sloop, but a large rowboat or jollyboat. If you bought Sophies Revene having one for Sophie is a good idea, and it sits happily on the deck.
The boat is a gunpowder era design, and has the Age of Sail 'pirate' feel, but is almost indistinguishable from a medieval rowboat from a few centuries earlier. It will not look out of place with George Washington on the prow, or a medieval knight. The square sail mast and spare are both removable, It will not be hard to make your own spare with a a billowed sail. The oars are big enough to not get lost, the deck planking is separated for painting and there are a number of small chest and barrels, a larger chest and a body in a sack. I like these cargo pieces. Most chests and barrels are fairly big, and represent large heavy chest or barrels that axct as mission foci or terrain, the crates and barrels in the set at large also have that dynamic, but the boat has some small chest and barrels which look like they can be easily transported by one man, and can be glued on a table rather than stacked next to one.
The body in a sack, is a great gaming piece, is it a murder victim to be disposed of, or a captive held to ransom. The piece has its own story.
This makes a large cog at 28mm scale, about 200 tons burthen.
This model varies enormously in price and availability and is known under several names.
You will need to height extend any castle you add to it, both under the castle deck and the deck walls.
Yopu will also need to replace the ladders with 28mm ones and widen the hatches. This ship is otherwise more accurately 28mm.
This makes a small cog at 28mm scale, about 50 tons burthen.
This model is stable in price, and quite basic being an mdf kit. But genuinely good for a cog owned by a party of player characters.
Production quality and detail is lower.
I recommend replacing the ladders with higher quality ones, as the shortcoming of mdf show through with things like stairs and ladders, but otherwise the kit stands on its own. You will need to make your own sail.
Oguhmek wrote: Thanks! That pirate boxset looks pretty good! Can always find good use for barrels.
If you are after barrels best sources are
1. Dungeons & Lasers old stretchgoal boxes
2. Mantic Terrain Crate
The Pirate City of Brinewind barrels are nice but have hard shadow, some Mantic barrels stacks also have hard shadow but it is generally less obvious. they are also wedged so they only fit one way.
I don't mind barrel stacks, I have enough barrels from various sources that I made barrel stacks, and even carved apart Mantic barrel stacks and re-glued them in different combos. But it you don't have a lot of barrels the lack of versatility might hinder you.
If you have Sophie's Revenge this set is still good to collect, probably at least twice, the cargo frame fits well on the ship as below deck decor, having multiples makes sense, and you can permanently assign one of your 'sloops' as Sophie's jollyboat..
Probably easier to have everything in one thread as the Rampart thread has run it’s course for now the MOTU thread is rarely updated and HoM&M is unlikely to get its own thread so I’ve updated the title.
Going forward this is the Archon Studios news and rumours thread.
In news my Encounters RD arrived yesterday had a quick check and looks good to me some might find the hills a bit small but they can be used together and I have larger hills so these fit a need I had anyway.
Both my girlfriend and I used to play a lot of HOMM3 so we decided to back this one. And the nice thing is, I won't even have to think about the colours!
In news my Encounters RD arrived yesterday had a quick check and looks good to me some might find the hills a bit small but they can be used together and I have larger hills so these fit a need I had anyway.
Thinking of gluing some of the hills together to make larger hillls for more variety.
- delivery planned for Jan/Feb 2023
- detail on bases has been made shallower to allow minis to stand on them - no word on the add on yet
- Female Giant and entrances are push fit - female giant only needs 1 leg glued on and the staff orb halves the orb can spin, the entrances don’t need glue at all
- The tower/hut sprue you get 4 to make 1 tower, 1 swamp hut, 1 cage and it looks like 2 huts can be made from 4 sprues. They’ve added a door for the tower as they forgot it originally so you’ll have 3 spare doors per set.
- Tarasque is likely the last kit to be tooled currently split into 21 parts.
- D&L Heroes & Villains - expect changes to what's been announced so far - 400 minis planned. Minis scaled up by 1.2mm (eye level) for a “human” type mini.
- 4 new sprues produced see pictures
- 2 sprues of minis left and the Tarrasque
- Unable to add bases to the PM due an to issue with invoicing and partially shipped RD pledges - will be available in the next KS.
- Spirit Tree can be assembled with or without leaves.
- Kazumi Temple needs a slight tweak before they can release it to retail (but they can't find the files at the moment).
- Heroes and Villains is now called D&L World of Deuslair - KS Q1 2023 might slip to Q2 though.
- Rat Dragon
- Centaurs, Goblins, Nature Runners (Wood Elves) alt arms and heads
Those sprues are great. I just finalized my pledges but now I'm second guessing if two sets of stretch goals will be enough. I've been on the Archon train since D&L 1 and Rampart 1 but somehow this particular set might have the largest number of random bits that will be immediately useful for me.
- Kazumi Temple needs a slight tweak before they can release it to retail (but they can't find the files at the moment).
Can you give more information on this? I have a lot of the initial Kazumi Temple and I'm curious what they intend to tweak.
someone asked when it would get a retail release and they said there’s an issue with the tool and the cast pieces don’t fit correctly so they need to fix the tool to correct the issue. I do recall having to trim some parts get a proper fit in places so it’s good that they’ll address this.
- Kazumi Temple needs a slight tweak before they can release it to retail (but they can't find the files at the moment).
Can you give more information on this? I have a lot of the initial Kazumi Temple and I'm curious what they intend to tweak.
someone asked when it would get a retail release and they said there’s an issue with the tool and the cast pieces don’t fit correctly so they need to fix the tool to correct the issue. I do recall having to trim some parts get a proper fit in places so it’s good that they’ll address this.
Looking at getting another pledge, because I wanted to double up on 1 per backer stretch goals. Does anyone know if I need to make a new Gamefound account, or can I just put in a second pledge separately under the same account?
Thanks for the reminder! Made a 2nd gamefound account and grabbed another adventurer pledge to get 2 of each set and all the stretch goals. I figure I can sell the Tarrasque to cover at least part of the shipping. The "one per backer" goals seem pretty substantial this time around.
Hopefully they scaled stuff up a bit from Rampart. The 20mm scale car was the most egregious.
On this friday they're going to be talking about the D&D OGL nonsense that's ongoing at the moment, as that's clearly going to be an issue for the new project as the printed material with it was going to be statted for D&D
I could only dip in and out of todays AMA but here's some bits
- Shipping should start February they just need to finish the Tarasque - 1 sprue (tail) shown
- D&L 5 Deuslair is 32mm true scale (not GW heroic) image shown with Woodhaven mini vs slightly upscaled new minis.
- Pledges
€89 - 150 new minis
€189 - 235 minis
€269 - 316 minis
€369 - 406 minis
Multiple build options
Last 2 include legacy stuff - first two for previous backers
Add on sets
Of seas and Deserts - 40 minis
Beastkin - 45 minis
Kings of the round - 45 minis
Desrt Storm (Araby) - 45 minis
On per backer super goals will be properly big minis
- MInis only - no terrain unless it's part of the mini
- D&L 6 - Terrain only - Cave theme - curved tiles being worked on - end of year
- Separate trees pack coming €59 add on in D&L 5
