ok i just want some imput, in a 1 on 1 fight who would be crowned the daddy of all the primarchs?? :mad:   I would go for russ, but then i collect the wolves.

Although there is no way to prove who is the toughest, I would pick Angron. Sanguinius had an amazing reputation and crushed a bloodthirster-lord. I believe that in "Horus Rising" Fulgrim was also highly regarded for his martial prowess.

Darrian

I read a bit of fluff somewhere about the Primarch of the Imperial Fists (Rogal Dorn?). I read it about a year ago, so it's probably riddled with innaccuracy. The story goes that Rogal Dorn met his end when he crash landed onto an Ork-held planet. His surviving command squad was wiped out within hours, but he held on for days and days. When he finally died, the Orks marked the site, as they wanted to pay respect to the greatest warrior they had ever seen. Around his grave they placed the skulls of all the Orks he killed, and they streched to the horizon in all directions.

Anyway, I think that might make him the winner in this hypothetical contest, but I just really like the Imperial Fists.

Are you sure about that one?

I've never heard it... And I'm fairly sure that Dorn met his (alleged) end attacking a Chaos Battle Cruiser or some such.

All that could be found was his hand, leading to theories (of course!) that the rest of him is OK, somewhere else....

Anyway, I'm going to vote Sanguinius, for many reasons, but mostly because he did what needed to be done, knowing full well what it would cost him (I also like the story that states he weakend Horus' armor enough to helped the Emperor eventually defeat him, though I cannot remember the specifics!)...

the story about DORN is actiully a copy from the original space wolves codex wher a wolf gaurd leader had all his squad killed by a massive ork warband, the wolf gaurd leader held them up for days untill he was overrun and then the orks left wargear and stuff to appease his spirit. true.

As for sanguinius he did not beet the bloodthirster, if you read horus heresy visions of war it clearly state that the blood thirster bested him and then left killing 500 blood angels in his wake, the shock of so many of his sons knocked sanguinius unconcious. ok he did sacrifice himself so the emeporer could live but i said whos the toughest?? not bravest as he well could be the bravest (or dumbest)

Angron was just a beserker russ could have beeten him, he beet magnus, horus beat sang, and fulgrim beet gulemen so it would be a toss off between them 3.

@Beef, The original version of the Horus Heresy was written in the "Horus Heresy" boxed game. I still have a copy of it (published 1993). The version told there has Sanguinius KILLING the bloodthirster.

Your statement that Russ could beat Angron is pure speculation. Magnus was a psyker supreme, I seriously doubt he focussed much on martial prowess. As to Horus beating Sang, Horus was greatly enhanced by all 4 chaos powers by the time he faced Sang, he was not mearly a primarch. Lastly, Fulgrim did beat Guilleman and I would LOVE to read that fluff. I have always disliked Guilleman.

Darrian

Russ didn't beat Magnus. The Wolves bombarded the Thousand sons homeworld, but most escaped, and Magnus is still alive in the eye of terror as a daemon prince.

I'd say Night Haunter. He was as bad as anyone could hope for. He attacked Dorn before the Heresy, knocking him flying and ripping bits out of his chest. Now THAT is hard.

Sanguinus definitely killed the Bloodthirster. He snapped its back over his knee at the battle for the Palace. And he managed to do some damage to Horus, in the space of probably a few days. Maybe he was the hardest........

Beef - watch out when dining on the new fluff!

It really isn't all that good...

Yea - I don't tend to take the 'visions of ...' books as canon. They change quite a lot of stuff - I much prefer the idea of Sanguinius taking out a bloodthirster!

As far as which primarch is toughest, I think Horus could own them all, even when he was a loyalist.

Leman Russ. come on, he's a Primarch AND a Viking

Im surprised that no one has mentioned Horus as the toughest of the primarchs...I mean cummon he almost killed the Emperor right after killing Sanguinius. That takes some mad skills.

I wouldn't say Russ because he fought the Lion to a stand still and then got knocked out by a sucker punch.

Horus did all of that with a little help from his friends! (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh!)

Night Haunter was killed by an Imperial Assassin...... I'd hardly call that an ending for the "toughest primarch". The answer is clearly me, Angron. For is Khorne not the most powerful Chaos God...... and would Khorne not make his most precious servant his most powerful servant..... so the most powerful servant of the most powerful god = the most powerful person who is not a god. Besides..... you need to be more specific...... strongest I'm going with Angron.... most ferocious= Russ..... but "Toughest" would be the nurgle primarch.... I forget his name.... after all.... he did go with nurgle.... whose bonus is +1 toughness.... ( and yes, I know the fluff about him being trapped in a warpstorm on his ship and all of his men falling prey to disease and him making a bargain for release of the warpstorm and plague..... but the god of decay.... and toughness had to of sought him out for some reason)

I wouldn't say Russ because he fought the Lion to a stand still and then got knocked out by a sucker punch.

Whoever said the Lion was a tough person?

Im surprised that no one has mentioned Horus as the toughest of the primarchs...I mean cummon he almost killed the Emperor right after killing Sanguinius. That takes some mad skills.

Horus was by far the best in martial combat.... it states that.... but that's because I am just a little crazy and feroucious to think tactically when I fight. And yes, Horus had a little help from all the Chaos gods... but let's not forget that Sanguinius was just a little fairy boy. I mean.... isn't he described as the most beautiful of the primarchs? Seems a little feminem if you ask me.

So in a one on one fight... I'm going for Horus..... in a one vs. many fight.... me

By method of elimination let us remove those who have been defeated:

Rogal Dorn - Defeated by Night Haunter and baited into a trap by Peturabo
Night Haunter - Killed by M'Shen
Roboute Guilliman - Killed by Fulgrim
Ferrus Manus - Killed by Fulgrim
Sanguinus - Killed by Horus
Magnus the Red - Defeated by Leman Russ
Leman Russ - Defeated by Lion El'Johnson
Lion El'Johnson - Defeated by Luthor

I'd say Fulgrim's pretty badass.  Left off Horus since the Emperor is obviously UBER.

 

Angron, by your reasoning, if the Lion wasn't a tough person, then neither was Russ, as their fight was exactly even up to the end(when Russ laughed and El'Jonson slugged him).

Posted By keezus on 05/25/2006 9:54 AM

By method of elimination let us remove those who have been defeated:

Rogal Dorn - Defeated by Night Haunter and baited into a trap by Peturabo
Night Haunter - Killed by M'Shen
Roboute Guilliman - Killed by Fulgrim
Ferrus Manus - Killed by Fulgrim
Sanguinus - Killed by Horus
Magnus the Red - Defeated by Leman Russ
Leman Russ - Defeated by Lion El'Johnson
Lion El'Johnson - Defeated by Luthor

I'd say Fulgrim's pretty badass.  Left off Horus since the Emperor is obviously UBER.

 

No way did the Lion defeet the wolf,  the wolf allowed the lion as he thought honour had been served and the lion did knock him out but when he was not expecting it,  treacherous dark angels, cant trust them.  i said fair fight, not sucker punch when nobody is looking.  whoever said not to trust the new fluff is correct.  but i have read 3 versions of sanguinius death, on where he kills a bloddthirster, one wher he gets killed by a blood thirster and one where he get knocked out by one.  but i gues GW just change stuff as an when they feel like and sometime they dont make sence just like there prices

@Keezus, Damn, I guess the prize would have to go to Fulgrim. After all, he is 2-0 vs Primarchs. That is a pretty damn good record. I guess only the Emperor has a better record than that since he had to defeat many of them to get them to follow him.

Darrian

Yup, that would be my reasoning alright. I'm not saying they weren't tough.... they are primarchs.... just not the toughest...

And not one blood angel player is mad about me calling their primarch a fairy boy?!

okay, so maybe the Slaneesh Guy is the toughest Primarch...
the wolf and the Lion are waaaaaaaaaaaaay cooler

Posted By Angron on 05/24/2006 10:38 PM
Night Haunter was killed by an Imperial Assassin...... I'd hardly call that an ending for the "toughest primarch".

Night Haunter arranged for the assassin to kill him, and knew the assassin would. So that doesn't count as him being weak... if you exclude Horus, then Night Haunter. Never was beat, except by his own design.

And why would anyone want to die so that their soul could be torn apart and consumed for all eternity? No no my friend.... I believe that the Night Haunter knew he was going to be killed by the assassin, that there was no way to escape it, but not that he planned his death..... no one, not even chaos is that insane (besides berserkers)

I don't think it's fair to say that a Loyal Primarch being defeated by a traitor Primarch post-heresy is meaningful of anything.

Lets just say that all Primarchs have a number. That number is two. Two resembles their strengths, toughness, etc... Now you take those 9 who went to chaos. Chaos took that two, then gave it another 1 or 2 on top of that. The traitor Primarchs still maintained all of the skills and strengths that they had when they were human, and then had them enhanced by chaos's abilities. The loyal Primarchs had to rely solely upon their skills. That is why there is no story of a loyal primarch defeating a traitor primarch in 1 on 1 combat. It would be like throwing a Guardsmen at a Marine (not quite like that, but you get the point).

A better measurement of their abilities would be to compair them before the Heresy, when they were all on par with each other.

djones has a good point. No weapons, no chaos assistance, just one-on-one straight up bare-knuckle.
As he Night Haunter, I have no idea if he arranged for the assassin to kill him (I doubt it) but he did know that she was coming and allowed her to kill him, as he believed it justified everything he had ever said against the Imperium. There's a qoute floating around somewhere.

I'd have to agree, Nighthaunter willing let himself die.

So he technically wasn't defeated.

 

Oh and if you don't want to count Leman getting beaten by Lion because of a sucker punch, I would argue that Magnus was hit by a similar sucker punch i.e. a cheesey kick to the eye by Leman.

Man, that Leman was a pansy.

Russ a pansy? he did not sucker kick magnus in the eye. they were fighting to the death, ats all fair then but the lion (who should actually be called a treacherous git) punched russ after they stopped fighting and Russ was laughing at the fact they had a good punchup. i dont think either of them was really trying to kill each other as was shown when the emeporor died and lion stabbed russ thru the heart but turned the blade at the last moment. So this fight dont count. I Would have to in all honesty go for Horus as he was the numero uno guy, even though i would argue for Russ.

Night hunter was a pansy at least Sanguinius knew he was gona die and still fought Horus, night hunter just sat there like a litte biatch and waited to be killed. To late for remorse

Fulgrim could easily be the toughest. However, when he was fighting Guilleman, they were enveloped by a thick, musky mist. HE USE PERFUME TO DEFEAT SOMEONE! That, sirs, is both cheating, and rather disturbing. Also, who else did he fight?

Night Haunter allowed himself to be killed because it would confirm his conviction (from his visions) that the Imperium would tear itself apart. He even warned Fulgrim that the Primarchs would end up bitter enemies, and the Emperor would turn on them, showing no remorse for his lost sons. Dorn took offense, and confronted him.
Night Haunter was never a Chaos worshipper, he found himself excluded, and he would probably have come back into the Imperial fold if the Emperor had shown mercy.

Posted By beef on 05/26/2006 4:14 AM
Russ a pansy? he did not sucker kick magnus in the eye. they were fighting to the death, ats all fair then

I disagree, a kick in the eye is a low blow - up there with throwing sand in opponents eyes or kicking him in the groin.

he kicked him in the eye cos thats were magnus was doing his phykik choas blast laserbeem things/ psyclops impressions from so Russ kicked hin in the eye to make him stop

I vote for Night Haunter, too. He was so though that he has got to allow to kill him.

you know really it was most probably Horus as nobody bested him but the emporor. we are talking before he turned traitor. he was the toughest and in all fairness could have beaten all of the others up, just like abbadon was the baddest first captain so was horus the baddest primarch.

Horus was just the leader figure the story needed. Every other Primarchs could have done the job. And there all still two of them missing.

Night Haunter, without question. Didn't like the other primarchs, beat the crap out of golden boy Rogal Dorn without breaking a sweat and let himself be killed just to prove himself right.

Ultimate Badass.

Darkchild

I would have to join in the Night Haunter wagon also.  Each Primarch would technically have a 50/50 chance of beating any of the others because they should basically have all the same stats.  Brute strength could be countered by speed and speed could be countered by cunning.   Night Haunter on the other hand was a psychopathic 'enforcer'.  Any one as unstable as he was at times wouldn't hold anything  back in a fight - which is why he thumped Dorn so easily. 

I don't remember the story but I like everybody who beats up Imperial Fists

theywere not all equal, while one was strong the other was fast, thats from the lion and the wolf where they were equally martched were the wolf was stronger the lion was faster, but thats them 2 not the others. Horus was the best of the best, he had no equal or superior apart from the emporer. He was the favoured son and nobody could beet him. his martial prowess was abpove the other primarchs.

This should be our next SURVIVOR post in the dakka discussions.

Vulcan, because he hunts Lava Lizards Did he ever square off against another Primarch?

Angron.... because I killed off an Eldar raid whose sole intention was to kill me with my bare fists.... while unarmored and naked...... What other primarch did the eldar fear so much that their farsears ordered them slain before they were discovered?

cmon Russ ripped off a titens head, Russ had the 3rd highest victrory tallies of all the chapters and considering his leagion was not even that big. he even has the main battlr tank of the imperium named after him.. cmon top that

Posted By Angron on 05/25/2006 6:17 PM
And why would anyone want to die so that their soul could be torn apart and consumed for all eternity? No no my friend.... I believe that the Night Haunter knew he was going to be killed by the assassin, that there was no way to escape it, but not that he planned his death..... no one, not even chaos is that insane (besides berserkers)

That's a lot like the theory that Jesus ordered Judas to betray him actually.

My bias was towards Russ prior to reading any of the posts, but Angron, Horus, Haunter and Fulgrim all seem to have strong cases as well. So toughest LOYAL primarch = Russ, IMHO, and that bias of mine hasn't changed. Out of the Traitors/Primarchs of Traitor Legions, I'd hesitantly vote Horus, though Angron and especially Haunter easily top him on the cool factor - I hadn't read much of Haunter's fluff.

cmon before they had de,onic powers Russ all the way, in fairness there is probably more fluff on him than anybody else. GO RUSS GO

I recently read the Fluff about Night Haunter (Index Astartes). he had visions of the Space Marines fighting against each other and the Emporer killing him. so he let the Assassin get to him (altough there is no Evidence that he was really killed by the Assassin), to proof that his visions were true

anyone know where i can read that story about the imperial fists primarch getting a hole ripped out his chest, i read that to somewhere but i dont know where

I think it was a White Dwarf article about the Night Lords. I don't know if there is an Index Astartes book with the same story in it.

you dont hear much of Jagathi Khan even though he was defending terra at the time of the horus heresy along with the blood angels and the imperial fists, how come he is not rated that much??

because the white scars blow? Having a bike army to defend a planet just doesn't seem smart

cmon thats cool they were like the hells angles of the 40k universe

I thought Squats were the Hell's Angels of 40k...

yeah but they dont exist anymore so they dont count. jagati khan is like the gengis khan of 40K

I though the old IG cavalry where the gengis khans of 40k...

yes they were, but white scars are the tougher cousins of them. the old IG are the before pictures and the scars are the after pictures of what happens when they become SM.

he retook and held the spaceport- heck i'd say he was the toughest on terra due to the fact his legion was the only one to really complete their objectives :-p
all the chaos ones failed to win, while dorn and fairy boy couldn't defend the palace successfully

Ummm.... I accomplished my objective on terra.... my job was to kill the citizens and wreak mayhem and destruction... mission accomplished

Don't you mean Kharn accomplished your objective on terra for you while you hid from Sanguinis lest he crush you like the daemonic insect you are!
Angron's scared of a fairy!
(hee hee)

Angron scared of a fairy, to scared to face fairy boy or even dorn or the khan

Well no one mentioned here that Vulkan is (after a very represantetive Primarch SURVIVOR *thunderandlightning*) the tough guy.

Yeah, I may be biased as I like Salamanders before 4th Edition ripped away the very soul of the army and turned them into boring green Ultramarines, plus he did fight the Emperor toa standstill and he never needed to face another Primarch as they all knew what a double hard bastard he was

Vulkan only won because people were to busy voting off others they felt strongly about.

just for the record, I recently read the Index Astartes Article about Blood Angels, and it says that Sanguinius alone fought of the Demon hordes at the imperial palace

Nobody has mentioned Alpharius, who (almost) single-handedly took out Horus's battle-barge before he was discovered, and only died because Gulliman didn't like him. (They faced each other in CC and were evenly matched, except Gulliman took a cheap shot at Alpharius's neck, and by reading the fluff in the Index Astartes you now Alpha should've won.)

Gulliman won a fight with another Primarch? I always kinda saw him getting his powerfists stuck in something while Fulgrim kicked in his power-armoured codpiece, or something similar.

Lest not forget according to the index astartes fluff Guillaman was the best strategist. he also fixed the world he conqured unlike some of the others who left it in ruin after they conqured it. Also he had the purest geneseed, no mutations and everything working at 100%.

"yeah, you hear me? I'm the best! I wrote this great book and you have to do what I say. aaarrgghhh! damn it Fulgrim, get your sword out of my throat!"

Posted By Dark Forboding One on 07/09/2006 5:32 AM
Nobody has mentioned Alpharius, who (almost) single-handedly took out Horus's battle-barge before he was discovered, and only died because Gulliman didn't like him. (They faced each other in CC and were evenly matched, except Gulliman took a cheap shot at Alpharius's neck, and by reading the fluff in the Index Astartes you now Alpha should've won.)

Actually thats incorrect he did not singlehadedly take out Horus battle barge.  It was just a normal lunar wolves commanders barge.  Horus arrived with reinforcements.  Secondly as for guilaman taking a cheep shot were does it say that??  the both struch each other at the same time but then alpahurious fell to the ground dead( obviously as guillaman is perfection his blow hit.  As for Fulgrim,  tat was a cheap shot, blinding guillaman with his musk and perfume and silks and then sliceing hs throat.  Anyway some believe guillamans throat is healing very very very slowly.  I'LL BE BACK

I'm still waiting for the Primarchs to return. they could fight stuff like mutated Demonprimarchs or the Dragon...

So what you're saying is that the White Scars are the Canadians of the 41st Millenium, Bignutter?

Anyway, IIRC, the Khan died of old age or some other lame thing like that, even though he was Canadian cool.

I tought he hunted some Chaos Guys into a Warpgate and dissapeared.

A Primarch CAN NOT die of old age. no Space Marine can...I think

Space Marines can and have died of old age, it's just rare as most die on the battlefield. In no fluff is it ever stated they are immortal, the Index Astartes that talks about the creation of a marine, in fact, mentions that the average life span for a marine is ~200-300 years and that Blood Angels are special with a longer life span. Long-lived? Yes. Immortal? Hell no.

Ok I didn't read all of this because i gtg soon so don't get pissed if some one already pointed the stuff i say out <?

Ok Leman Russ was not as physically powerful as the mighty Cyclops Magnus but he was way more ferocious and did defeat Magnus(After two days and nights of battle). Magnus used some spell that killed Russ if he looked into his eye so rus kicked him in his giant eyeball and then broke his back, so Magnus cast a spell and fled into the warp. That puts Leman ahead of Magnus. But Sanguis was pretty good to, but Sanguis was killed by Horus(don't know much about how, fair the fight was all I know is he beat him.) and Horus was the emperors favorite "son" making me believe Horus must have been powerful. Then He also fought the Emperor and crippled him. Leman fought the Emperor and was PWNed, Leman was also a equal match for the Dark angles primarch(The only reson the dark angles primarch won was because Leman realized how dumb the fight was and laughed aloud and put down his guard, the DA primarch though leman was laughing at him and stabbed him XD). This breaks my heart to say Leman was not the mightiest but I think Horus was the strongest primarch well that's just from my gathered knowledge... 

 

Ok I didn't read all of this because i gtg soon so don't get pissed if some one already pointed the stuff i say out <?

Ok Leman Russ was not as physically powerful as the mighty Cyclops Magnus but he was way more ferocious and did defeat Magnus(After two days and nights of battle). Magnus used some spell that killed Russ if he looked into his eye so rus kicked him in his giant eyeball and then broke his back, so Magnus cast a spell and fled into the warp. That puts Leman ahead of Magnus. But Sanguis was pretty good to, but Sanguis was killed by Horus(don't know much about how, fair the fight was all I know is he beat him.) and Horus was the emperors favorite "son" making me believe Horus must have been powerful. Then He also fought the Emperor and crippled him. Leman fought the Emperor and was PWNed, Leman was also a equal match for the Dark angles primarch(The only reson the dark angles primarch won was because Leman realized how dumb the fight was and laughed aloud and put down his guard, the DA primarch though leman was laughing at him and stabbed him XD). This breaks my heart to say Leman was not the mightiest but I think Horus was the strongest primarch well that's just from my gathered knowledge... 

 

What you say is heresy. and you call yourself Seyc Blood Claw? You should be thrown out the fang. How can you say that the Lion (pussycat) was equal to the wolf??

well, they fought for two days and nights and in the End, Russ stopped and Jonson knocked him out

The lies they teach now. Its unbelievable... shame on you for believing a bunch of marines that wear dresses and hide in a cave with there little creature friends ie there gimps.

In my defence I didn't say the DA primarch was stronger! It was a cheap shot! I only said i think Horus is the strongest seeing as he cripled the Emperor... I would put Russ in second, and Russ is(From my knowlage) the only living and still loyal Primarch I think he's out in the warp whoping some demon @$$ right now

Russ. 'nough said

 

plus, Russ has a beard. no beards for sissy dress wearing marines

Real men have beards, unless they are dwarf women.

Sanguinius hands down. He was slappin down Blood Thirsters all around the Emporers palace. It took all four chaos powers possessing Horus to take him out in the end. Horus was laid low by a single greater demon of Nurgle before going chaos. ( weak panzie that he was) Then I would go with the Lion followed closely by Fulgrim. The Haunter was no push over either but Dorn probably gets beat down by little girls.

Perturabo clearly. He alone wouldn't be stupid enough to be caught alone without a proper defiler/obliterator escort

dorn was the emporers champion and the imperial fists were the emporors pretorian gaurd so i doubt Dorn was a pushover.

Come on Beef, you know Dorn was just a good conversationalist...

Perturabo for President

Dorn was only the Emperors champion because he was to stupid to ever retreat to fight another day. Great qualities to have in a body gaurd. Get on the chopper sir I will stay behind and protect you.  Haunter would have had him for dinner if the other primarchs would not have pulled him off.

Sorry what is this bit of fluff about Dorn and Haunter?

apparently hunter ripped a chunk out of dorns chest when they had an argument. cant remember where it was but if anybody remembers let me know so i can read it again.

Index Astartes Articel Night Lords... "He was sitting like a gargoyl on his chest..."
This is a scene someone should have painted or sculpted.....

I'm going to go with Sanguinius. He took huge amounts of radiation and still beat the crap out of all of these chaos marines at the eternal gate. Also, he had cool wings that he could fly on. Little improv conversation:
"Oh c'mon Leman lets go over the mountain. Oh wait, you can't fly. Oh can't anybody else fly? Just me? Oh."

Also, he took on Horus, but he knew already that he would lose, for he had a limited ability to forsee events. It also reads that Horus could not overcome Sanguinius with martial prowess, and that he had to use psychic abilities.

of course leman Russ could fly. he had a thunderhawk. and a jet pack

why does the combination of Leman Russ and Jetpack remind me of this scene in the 2. Hellboy Comic....

does anybody know what happened to Vulkan after the Herasy? I can't find anything in the Index Astartes article.

he disapreared into the warp like so many others. its just a getout clause so GW did not have to rattle there brains to much to give him an interesting ending

That is the unimaginative escape clause for all the lame Primarchs. They dissapeared into the wide warp, thier in stasis healing from injury's, or on some great vision quest. I still haven't seen a thread shooting down Sanguinius or Fulgrim. Lemon Russ got smacked down bye the Lion and I love using that every time I see a wolf player because they start to wine how it was trickery and that Lemon let his gaurd down. Uuuhh, okay.

In fairness, I don't think getting taken out by a low blow should count in a 'who is the toughest primarch' contest.

Lion el'Jonson beating Leman, Leman beating Magnus the Red, etc.

Russ crushed Magnus' back over his knee....

yeah thats not a low blow. if your refering to russ kicking him in the eye thats cos magnus was doing his warp powers blast thingy from his eye and russ threw a thoussand son marine at his to block the eye then kicked him in his eye to close the warp lighning coming from there and then broke his back on his knee like a "female dog"

Here is my personal rating:

1. Night Haunter
2. Sanguinius
3. Leman Russ

Regardless of what Magnus was doing with his bad-a$$ powers, kicking anyone, especially a cyclops, in the eye is low.

Leman was getting his butt kick all over the place until that point. So I would say, that Magnus is tougher than Leman on the grounds that Leman only beat him by being cheesey.

Reminds me of how OB1 beat Darth Maul. Noone can argue that OB1 could beat Maul in a fair fight. Cheesey as hell.

Thats heresy Thanatos_elNyx the inquesition has been informed.
1. Horus
2. Russ
3> Sanguninius

Well seeing as how nobody has risen to defend the great Ferrus Manus; the only thing I can think of is that he killed the hell out of a machine-dragon made of necrodermis/living metal. I think he died at the drop site massacre though.

Somebody said that Vulcan was equal with the Emperor in combat, I'd say that automatically makes him victor.

Fulgrim has killed the most primarchs, and he would seem to be the quickest one.

But my favorite primarch, The Nighthaunter, would probably rip off his armor, flex his talon-fingers, and go to work on someone's face.

who has fulgrim killed??

Posted By beef 08/05/2006 4:35 PM
who has fulgrim killed??

I just reread it, Fulgrim killed Ferrus, so I guess he IS out.  And he basically killed Guillimon.

Guillaman is not dead. he is in stasis in the chapel of hera on ultramar. so that does not count. as for ferrus, fulgrim intoxicated him with his fairy perfume and then killed him.

I still say sanguinius. He was a match for horus even after he had been so highly elevated by the four chaos powers. He also had forsight, which he used to see the future if he stayed true to the emperor (death). Even after the knowledge of his impeding doom he stayed with the Emperor. Thats gotta count for something.

I think we should leav Horus out of this conversation/quabble because he wasn't just a Primarch, a commander of a chapter of Space marines, he was a Warmaster, the head of the Imperiums armies and second only to the Emperor.

Also, if you think about it, none of the other Chaos primarchs would fight Horus for his position of power in fear of defeat, but Sanguinius didnt think twice about it, even though he knew he'd die doing it.

Having the universe's biggest balls doesnt make you the toughest primarch.

most marines would gladly lay down there lives for the emporors but that does not make them badass. the fact that he knew he was gona beforehand and the fact that he did not change that outcome due to his farsight makes him even more of a sap

Posted By the_trooper 08/09/2006 2:09 PM
Having the universe's biggest balls doesnt make you the toughest primarch.

No it make you the biggest MACK

what's a MACK? Isn't this that apple computer?

and Horus was pushed by the 4 Chaos Gods, so actually...he cheated. well, the lion did too more or less, but he was a dress wearing sissy

and I read a bit from the fluff in the latest horus heresy artbook. Fulgrim was taken over by a powerful slanesh demon, so he didn't do squat.

Mack meens playa or Gallist or punani shaker. Basically a ladies man who is really cool etc

Overall I would say Horus would be supreme

Marital Combat would be a tie between Fulgrim and Angron

Pretty boyness would goto Sanguinius even though he did put a chink in Horus' armor

Drinking buddy and food would goto Leman Russ but he also wins ferocity

Survivability would goto Lion El Johnson

Tactics would goto Guillimen

Iron Will would goto Dorn

Psychics would goto Magnus

Strength would goto ferrus manus

Craftsmanship of a weapon would goto Vulkan

Fear Factor definately Night Haunter

Toughness would goto Motarion

this is just primarchs alone. If you guys allowed the Emperor, he would smack down all of them.

Remember that the Demon Versions

yes, now I remember. every one of the Primarchs (except Horus) only had one of their father's skills. so, when it comes down to, who's the toughest, I would say Mortarion

Martial prowess would also go to Sanguinius. Again he was beating down multiple bloodthirsters and took it to Horus after he was possessed by all 4 chaos powers. He also mastered aerial combat. Having flight adds a whole new dimension to combat. Just take your opponent up and drop them from say 600ft.

I"m assuming that one of the primarchs from the chapters that was deleted from imperial history was Samuel L. Jackson.  He would be the most powerful primarch.

I've never heard anyone claim before that you can sucker-kick someone in the eye or sucker-break someone's back over your knee.  Seems to me that you've already won the upperhand if you can do either of those things.  Inmates on deathrow don't say they won the fight except they were sucker-electrocuted in a wooden chair, do they?

- Oaka

the other was chuck Norris so tecknically he was actually tougher

Chuck Norris could power the Emperor's Golden Throne with roundhouse kicks.

- Oaka

he could take all the remaining 19 primarchs and the emporer all together and give them a whupping.

please, no more Chuck Norris! I can't stand it anymore!

besides, Clint Eastwood would kick Chuck's Butt.

boo, clint is over rated. but ok back to the seiousness of this thread.

It is a little known fact, but ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ was the toughest Primarch. When the Emperor embarked to find his sons, he landed on the planet ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ and ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ strode forth to meet him. Filled with scorn that such a frail man could be his creator, ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ refused to join the Emperor. The Emperor's eyes flashed with anger and smote his son with his powerfist, however to his shock, the blow was easily blocked barehanded. ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ then beat the Emperor to within an inch of his life and it was only by teleporting his unconcious forms off the planet that the Emperor retained his life. When he came to, he ordered the planet be rendered lifeless, and the fleet began bombarding the planet with their forward lance batteries. However, ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ just laughed and blocked these blasts with his bare hands too. Defeated, the Emperor decreed that ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ name be struck from the Imperial Records and that the ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ Space Marine chapter be virus bombed into oblivion.

Recently scribes have discovered that the name of the ++NAME EXPUNGED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS++ chapter was:

The Emperor's Dark Blood Eagle Sons of Iron Skull Wolf Warriors of Doom

Seriously though, I can't believe this thread is still going.

his powerfist blow was blocked....
blocked laserblast with his bare hands....

the lost Primarch is Son-Goku!!!

The clear winner here is...




Pan Fo!

this tread is till going as we have still not agreed as to who the winner is. its a toss off between Sang, horus, fulgrim and Russ, also night hunter for some odd reason which i cant fathom.

he ripped a part of yellow belly marine Primarch's chest. that's reason enough. and he let himself get killed to proof that he was right.

and the "toughest" is still Mortarion

yeah but ionly cos he is +1T from the basic stat of the primarchs

Posted By beef on 08/22/2006 11:37 PM
this tread is till going as we have still not agreed as to who the winner is. its a toss off between Sang, horus, fulgrim and Russ, also night hunter for some odd reason which i cant fathom.

For Chrissakes, eliminate Sanguinus already.  That Emo angel guy got owned by Horus.  Therefore, he's weaker than Horus.  Why is he still on this list!

Russ:  Rargh.  I beat up Magnus the Red!  I'm a berserker!  I'M WOLVERINE! 

Horus:  No, I'm WOLVERINE.  Didn't you see my lightning claws!???  I didn't beat up anybody, and got owned by the Emperor.  I'm only awesome in reputation only. -edit- had a brain fart there.  Of course I killed Saguinus.

Night Haunter:  I beat up ROGAL DORN...  and I died an emo death.

Peturabo:  Welcome to the club, that's not anything spectacular... anyone can beat up Rogal Dorn.

Fulgrim:  Uh guys...  Over here?  What's all this with beating up?  I killed Ferrus.  And Robute apparently.  That's got to be worth something.

==========

Final Verdict:  Fulgrim wins!  2 Primarchs to none!

I still stand by my earlier statement. Compairing Chaos Enhanced Primarchs to Loyalist Primarchs doesn't prove anything in who's the toughest, or strongest.

And you contradicted yourself Keezus. You acknowledged that Horus killed Sanguinius, but later on say that he did nothing. (Your forgetting that he mortally wounded the Emperor as well).

ok fine get rid of the angel guy, but get rid of night hunter to as he was sad enough to aloow himself to die to prove a point. "look daddy if i point this gun in my face and pull the trigger i will die. " or "watch me prove that by walking infront of an oncoming lorry i eill die" thats just plain stupid, its not badass/

Fine, if we are skipping Sang and Nighthaunter, I think we should drop Russ as well. What did he ever do. Cheesey victories are not counted. Oh and Oaka, it you read the fight between Magnus and Leman, Russ was on the backfoot and would have been owned except for the kick in the eye.

We got Fulgrim and Horus left.

Could somebody confirm that Russ actually kicked Magnus in a' eye? Because that's just really weird.

Just to throw in one for Sanguinius. Horus was unable to beat him in a fair fight. He only took Sanguinius out with his Psychic powers, powers which were granted to him by Chaos. Otherwise, Sanguinius would have destroyed him. So if we were to compair them as they where as Primarchs, then Sanguinius has got Horus beaten.

Posted By jlmb_123 on 09/04/2006 12:52 PM
Could somebody confirm that Russ actually kicked Magnus in a' eye? Because that's just really weird.

Don't forget that Magnus was a Cyclops and significantly bigger than your average Primarch(As well as the fact he had increased in size for that battle through sorcerous means), so a kick in the eye would be easier than normal. Assuming you can reach that high but Leman did it by grabbing Magnus fist when he was drawing back for a punch.

Posted By djones520 on 09/04/2006 9:15 PM
Just to throw in one for Sanguinius. Horus was unable to beat him in a fair fight.

You forget that Chaos cares not for fair fights. By any and all means is the mantra. So Horus wasn't looking for a fair fight.

I'm not sure where this debate went. We filled six pages with good argumwtns for several Primarchs, then suddenly the list drops to two.
We should still have Russ, Fulgrim, Horus, Sanguinus and Kurze.

-Russ jumped in the air, kicked Magnus in his eye and broke his back over his knee
-Fulgrim made Roboute Guiliman (or however his name is spellled) and Ferrus Manus all high with his sissy perfume.
-Horus cheated with psychic powers
-Sanguinius single-handed killed a bloodthirster, the chosen Avatar of the Wargood
-Konrad Curtze had visions that his father would kill him, so he let kill him self to proof he's right.

I'm guessing Fulgrim in a pure numbers count. He beat 2 Primarches and none of the others have that record.

Russ broke Magnus back and kicked the giant in the eye, he stays. Ok horus was crap he can go, plus he died. Sang 50/50, fulgrim ok he is 2 up on kills. Kurze?? Why?? he died by a little girly assasin. Dont counter with he knew and did it to prove a point, what point?? thats he was stupid??

hey, would you let yourself gelt killed just to proof you have benn right for all those centuries. Not? guess your point, is not impertant enough.

Posted By beef on 09/08/2006 4:00 PM
Russ broke Magnus back and kicked the giant in the eye, he stays.

For the record, he kicked him in the eye and THEN broke his back. Admit it, it was a cheap and cheesey victory. If you include it; then you also have to include the fact that the Lion beat Leman with a single punch. Russ is out either way.

But Skirt Boy put a sword through Russ's heart. That isn't anywhere near a *female dog*slap.
And combat ability isn't base on honour, it's about ones ability to beat an opponent. In fairness, Russ used his fighting style to his own adavantage, out-thing and out-fighting Magnus. That there is a practical warrior, not a prat.

He still got owned by the Lion.

he let the lion stab him in the heart cos he was depressed that the emporor was dead and he would no longer get free beer on Terra. forget the lion, lets not turn this into a Wolves V Marines in skirts argument.

The Lion and the Wolf fought MANY times. There were two instances where the Lion won. The first would be after dueling for three days Russ laughed about the whole thing and the Lion struck him down while he was walking away because he thought Russ was laughing about his dress. The second time Russ Bared his chest and let El'Johnson stab him through the heart. Neither time can be considered a Victory of arms.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the combats between the Primarchs read like bad WWF scripts.

Yes they do, many sucker punches going around. But like the WWE, a championship belt is a Championship belt.

But the Angron [The Angron? Wording is awsome] I'd go with him, in Hours Rising it states that he is wielding a glave that would be almost impossible for other Primachs to wield. That might not make him the best fighter but he does win the award for "Most impractical weapon wielder.' The winner of everything in my book...

Cept I like the Night Haunter Cos he had split personallity and was crazy. Plus his name is Conrad Kruz - which is only trumped by someone named 'Jake Bullet' or 'Frank Spear.'

In the end I'd go with Russ cos he seems like someone I'd like to hang out with. Drinking and eatting - something I do well. [Though not as well as someone who drained the royal reserves of wine.] A lot of the other 'Loyal' Primarchs seemed like really stuck up stiff *female dog*es who wouldn't know how to have a good time if their life depended on it...

Ferrus Manus got punked... so did Corax [cept he didn't die in the drop site massicare]

Mortarion [Even before the Chaos taint] was widely consider the most resiliant of the Primarchs... so... in the end - I don't have an answer... Hurray

Hmm...re-reading what folks have been saying:
If we exclude them based on dying when they knew they would then that'd exclude Sanguinius, and Haunter. Sanguinius never really had made my list in the first place anyways. Toughest Primarch period excludes Russ, but it loks like he ranks a minimum of third place in most people's books. Horus could be pushed out based on the whole "too much like the Emperor to be seen as just another Primarch" argument, okay, sure fine. Considering how the dirty fighting argument's been used to knock out Lion and Roboute - and I STILL have no clue how the blue armoured *fudge* would have killed ANYTHING tough with I1 from those ridiculous gauntlets - that would put a strike against Fulgrim to some degree. That leaves Angron as the number one meanest Primarch, which I suppose is appropriate considering we'r etalking about COMBAT power and he fell to Khorne, God of Fighting. If the embodiment of the emotional force of humans to fight chooses you as its champion, you must be among the meanest mothers. Using the analogy of skateboarding to compare Primarchs, we have:

Rodney mullen-class
1 the Emperor
2 Horus

tony hawk-class
3 Angron
4 Fulgrim*
5 Russ

elissa steamer-class
6 Mortarion
7 Vulkan
8 Haunter+
9 Sanguinius
10 Lion*+

edit - forgot Ferrus Mannus! Dunno if he'd be in the above or the below category though.

no-name pro-class
11 Perturabo
12 Alpharius
13 Lorgar
14 Corax
15 Jaghatai
16 Magnus

kid with helmet and kneepads-class
17 Gulliman
18 Dork

*indicating possible bad form, + shows emo death/girliness

so

it's pretty clear the top three by the unwritten law of the contest are Angron, Fulgrim and Russ. Perhaps some would raise Gulliman above the rank at which I set him, Dork is definitely bringing up the rear. Lion brings up the rear of third class sinc eh gets a double footnote. Mortarion and Vulkan are pretty obviously dead 'ard, though probably not with the sheer destructive force of the tier one primarchs, which is where this discussion is pointed. If it was "which Primarch woudl TAKE the most killing?" then they'd head the list, but this is about DOING the killing. If it was a contest on smarts, Alpharius, Magnus, and Gulliman would all rank a lot higher.

The no-name class I guess you could see as the overall "average" powered Primarchs - they got ordered by the strength of their chapters more than anything, and unfortunately for Magnus, he was both always the bookish one and the one GW development apparently hated. He would have still dribbled Dorn's head backwards before conjuring up a basketball hoop and slam-dunking it to KO Gulliman, however. The other five in that category I'm not so sure about. The only reason Lion's not in there is for sucker punching Russ, which indicates a certain mean-spiritedness neccessary for greater toughness - if it was open ground between him and Perturabo, he'd probably have to do an awful lot of dodging if the original Iron Warrior liked to carry as much firepower as his boys, and in an earnest rematch against Russ - or any Primarch I ranked higher than him - he'd have to count himself lucky if he survived.

THe moral is if Dork and Gullible had gone Chaos instead of Fulgrim and Angron, the Horus Heresy wouldn't have really got going before the heretics would have just been murdered by the combined strength of the three "living blender" Primarchs. It'd be like the A-team, except with just Mr. T and his clones...

Angron pitties the fool.

Though I am curious about Fulgrims level on your list. Did he kil someone I'm not aware of?
Other then Jaghatai and Russ all the Cool/ Good Fighters went to Chaos.

Fulgrim killed 2 primarchs (Ferrus Manus was not mentioned in wight_widow's post)- more than any other primarch. In martial excellence, as well as pride, he is unmatched. Angron's brutality and sheer bloodlust is second to none. Not surprisingly, these traits are also reflected in their respective legions, and a fierce rivalry has developed. A mimicry of the Ruinous Powers themselves, perhaps.

Of course, for all of their honor and bravery, no loyalist primarch can match the abilities of a warp enhanced killing machine. Fortunately, the Chaos followers seem to spend as much time warring with one another as with the Imperium, and their disorganization and petty rivalries ensure that the Emperor's servants will endure.

All the respect for Night Haunter is a bit baffling considering how little he accomplished. Claiming to see imminent death and then doing nothing to stop it is hardly impressive. His insanity was less compelling drive and more WTF?. It's like some obstinent, but perhaps gifted, teenager with a bunch of piercings and skull tattoos among a bunch of world heavy weight boxing champions. Simply outclassed. Likewise, the Lion seems a bit overrated. Sure, he's arrogant and quick to backstab but were it not for Russ's rather low intellect Johnson would probably be dead.

Lion and Night Haunter just happen to have better backstories than most. They were the two Primarchs who raised themselves - all the others had some kind of an adoptive family, in spite of the uniform toughness of their upbringings. ('cept for Gulliman, the aristocratic little SOB) Lion spent his whole "childhood" in a forest beating the crap out of huge monsters, and Haunter pretty much did the same except in an urban jungle with human predators. Not enough to top a great kill record, or being raised on - literally - a world of death or fire, but enough, in spite of their emo-esque potential - you'll notice they each got a star, an Lion a plus sign too - to have some kind of acknowledgement accorded to them. Maybe Sanguinius should top Haunter - especially if we go with the "how tough are his boys?" argument - but *shrug* they both sort of fall into the willing martyr category regardless. Plus, the fact that his Chapter pretty much became a power-armoured penal legion is a definite stroke in his favour on both the cool and tough meters - hardened criminals and psychopaths are in a little bit of a different category to lead than rough but basically honourable tribesmen, hardy feudal people, or blue-clad brainwashed model citizens. Though moot to say, the Imperial Fists are actually in the strange position of having had a first company captain whose skills easily topped those of their Primarch.

Dorn's first captian was better then he was? Really?

Though not a contemporary of his Primarch, Lysander was and remains the best reason to paint your Space Marines yellow.

The two toughest primarchs were Plunderin' Peter the Purple Pirate Primarch and Ninja Nick and Nebulous Ninja Primarch.

they were so awesome the Space Emperor deleted all records of them so the other primarchs would stop weeping like little girls every time they were mentioned.

It's true!

Though I believe Lysander is dead.

Though I believe Lysander is dead.

Damn it! Stupid internet!

Posted By Thanatos_elNyx on 09/07/2006 12:58 AM
I'm guessing Fulgrim in a pure numbers count. He beat 2 Primarches and none of the others have that record.

Beat? Guilliman was poisoned and is held in stasis untill he can be cured. As far as I know the only Primarchs that have been killed are Sanguinius, Night Haunter and Horus. 2-1, the loyalists win. There is no proof about the deaths of any other Primarchs. All the rest are either Daemon Princes, lost in space, or sleeping in stasis and hidden in an underground palace somewhere. Even Alpharius' death was propaganda spread out by the Alpha Legion themselves to keep his identity and whereabouts a secret.

As to the original question, Horus was superior to other Primarches in every way so he would and could have defeated any one of them either in a battle of their legions or in a duel. All his brothers respected him as the one who stands out from the crowd. Comparing normal Space Marines the background material indicates that if only pure melee skill was considered then the Space Wolves would have been the most powerful, since they were such frenzied berserkers. Pure melee skill just doesn't happen to mean anything, victories in battles do, and that's when you have to look at the brains of the Primarch and his officers. Considering that the Iron Warriors totally destroyed the entire Imperial Fists legion, Kor Phaeron and the Word Bearers kept Ultramarines busy during heresy, Alpha Legion had their way with the Ultramarines in the aftermath, World Eaters punched through the Blood Angels defence of the Imperial Palace like it was never there, Raven Guard and Iron Hands were all but wiped out, the Emperor's Children were honoured by the Emperor himself for being perfect examples of a Space Marine, and the Luna Wolves just happened to be the best of the best in everything, I'd say all the real top spots go to the traitors.

The Horus Heresy story is a tragedy about the Emperor's stupidity, nothing else. Clearly it was him who messed up the whole thing and with a few pushes, twists and turns here and there he could've prevented anything from happening and all the supermen would have lived happily everafter. He personally messed up Angron by not allowing him to die with his gladiators on his homeworld's surface and afterwards not managing to console him for his loss in any other way than giving him something else to think about by sending him to an eternal war. He personally arranged the Thousand Sons to be scattered. He's also personally responsible for Iron Warriors turning to Chaos by keeping them shell shocked for centuries. He lost the Word Bearers because he didn't let Lorgar worship the Emperor, and of course this lead to him losing Horus too. The Imperium wouldn't need Inquisitors if it had Word Bearers Apostles preaching the glory of the empire in all corners of the galaxy. Night Haunter should have been killed immediately upon discovery, especially when the Emperor saw what the psychoboy had done to his world. There was absolutely no sense in giving a madman a legion of insane sadist clones, but he did.

Of course it is also true that most of the traitor legions seem like incredible crybabies, having the intellectual capacity of a three year old and harbouring murder on an apocalyptic scale if their daddy once gave candy to their brothers instead of them. All of them seemed to forget that waging war in the Emperors' name was their job, and most of the time the reasons for turning against the Emperor seem very naive.

where did the whole Dorns first Captain was better than him come from??

Posted By Therion- on 09/22/2006 1:26 AM

Posted By Thanatos_elNyx on 09/07/2006 12:58 AM
I'm guessing Fulgrim in a pure numbers count. He beat 2 Primarches and none of the others have that record.

Beat? Guilliman was poisoned and is held in stasis untill he can be cured. As far as I know the only Primarchs that have been killed are Sanguinius, Night Haunter and Horus. 2-1, the loyalists win.

Incorrect. Ferrus Manus was eviscerated by Fulgrim and this was perhaps Fulgrim's most defining moment of betrayal. Guilliman is alive about as much as the Emperor is. Realistically, he is a casualty. Even if it is granted that he was somehow salvageable (unlikely), he was clearly defeated by Fulgrim, just as the big red cyclops was defeated by Russ.

Not incorrect at all. Neither of them are dead, and Guilliman for example is in perfect condition if it wasn't for a small wound on his neck where the poison got in, and the adepts believe that he seems to be healing slowly. Since you mentioned the Emperor, of course he isn't dead either. Fulgrim's most defining moment of betrayal is pink armour and women's underwear, and his Emperor's Children didn't do Horus much good in the heresy at all.

Gulliman still got his behind walloped by said cross dresser. The World Eaters were at least as good as the Space Wolves pre-heresy, and the Blood Angels are definitely better pos- heresy, at least in the "ravening psycho rage" department.

There needs to be at least two 'ravening psycho ragers' on the 'Good' side at any one time.

Perfect condition? The only reason he is in stasis is because the 'small wound' would have killed him if it wasn't for stasis. The Emperor is as 'alive' as any brain dead vegative state person on a feeding tube. Just because they can keep the body 'working' doesn't mean that the soul hasn't left a long time ago. Like Dick Chenney.

the emporor is in a coma and any day now he iwll come to. well thats what they have been say ing all these years.

Posted By Therion- on 09/22/2006 2:32 PM
Not incorrect at all. Neither of them are dead, and Guilliman for example is in perfect condition if it wasn't for a small wound on his neck where the poison got in, and the adepts believe that he seems to be healing slowly. Since you mentioned the Emperor, of course he isn't dead either. Fulgrim's most defining moment of betrayal is pink armour and women's underwear, and his Emperor's Children didn't do Horus much good in the heresy at all.

According to the Horus Heresy novels, Manus' head was presented to Horus as a show of Fulgrim's loyalty. The body was never recovered.

There is no indication that Fulgrim wore any undergarments, much less women's. He is portrayed much more as a sadistic libertine than a simple transvestite. His superhuman ferocity and savagery in battle indicates no lack of aggression and he also displays a twisted cunning that delights in inflicting suffering.

The EC's effectiveness in the Siege of Terra is irrelevant- we are not dicussing chapter effectiveness.

You know someone is going to say that Manus' isn't dead because his body was never recovered... I'm just waiting.

Manus isn't dead because his body was never recovered.

There, are you happy?

Reportedly he went on to form the Sleepy Hollow chapter (named after their homeworld), but they were supposedly wiped out by Ichabod Crane (such a nasty special character). Rumors of pumpkins and Hessian mercenaries are unconfirmed.

Yes... I am strangely happy. I don't know why but I am.

The Emperor is dead, quite thoroughly so. His soul remains tied to his body, but he is dead.

He somewhat lives on in the Star Child, though.

Oh, and Blood Angels were better pre-heresy. Sanguinius and his Legion were amazingly powerful, and possessed the most superior gene-seed to any other legion before the psychic feedback caused by the Primarch's death.

Not better than the Boys in Blue though, but then the EC also hade flawless geneseed. GO GO RUSS, flaws then , flaws now, Thsta what you call a stable mutaion or flaw, not like the ones that trned to chaos or the BA, a little thing like the death of there leader and they go all depresseive and psycho. one minute all happy clappy and the next frothing at th mouth and going dolaly.

@Velict: You men they were better when they were getting their clocks cleaned by the Traitors on Terra and having their Primarch carved like pork loin, back before they started freaking out and wearing black or putting assault cannons in their Destructors? ALL Chapters were BIGGER pre-heresy - no contest there - but on a man-to-man level, I still think the Blood Angels got pimped in Horus' wake.

@jmurph which horus heresy book you talking about?? its not in the first 2 and i have never read or heard of any fluff to support what you say. however i have yet to read the 3rd book.

The Night Lords Geneseed is still supposed to rather pure if that's some indication of their power.

Plus, loads of people got their arses kicked by Hours and his Legion

The Night Lords Geneseed is still supposed to rather pure if that's some indication of their power.

Plus, loads of people got their arses kicked by Hours and his Legion

So the 4th Art book shows the Ba started freeking out from when Sang got knocked out by the bloodthirster. Week ass geenseed.

I have too agree night haunter was tough Nut ( they had to take a assassin too him) thats tough

Posted By Kultofthebonedragons on 12/20/2006 5:18 PM
I have too agree night haunter was tough Nut ( they had to take a assassin too him) thats tough

Dude, why in the hell do you  keep raising up threads that are several months old and adding absolutely zero content to them when you've been repeatedly asked not to? Jesus.

I agree. Threadnomancy is bad, m'kay.