To me this would be an ideal way to build leaders into a future film. One issue of having key bits of story in animations or books is that only a smaller portion of the market becomes aware of them because of the different medium so can miss out in things that add up to core parts of future films.
A live action series also gives more time to develop plot lines - one thing I felt with the last film was that they ran out of space to take the multiple plot lines that they wanted to have to full maturity. So it might work better with their current view and focus.
Also £10million per episode sounds all kinds of nuts! Then again if they've got major actors and sets and CGI the numbers could indeed add up. That and my 5 mins googling seems to suggest that's the going rate for a big budget, high standards TV series (Game of thrones apparently breaches 15 million per episode in the last series.
Because this isn’t just a SciFi show. It’s Star Wars. A franchise which revolutionised that industry. Us Nerds have come to associate a certain level there.
I'm amazed that this show has got to the point of building sets, but there have been no casting or story leaks yet. Disney could teach most countries secret services a thing or two
DenofGeek has reason to believe shooting begins next week, so hopefully we’ll get more concrete info soon.
Plotwise, set 3 years after Jedi, and will focus on post-Empire Mandalore. Which sounds intriguing to me.
Ah. Fanwanking to Mandalorians and a bog-standard Tatooine set.
That isn't promising.
Any idea who's in it? A solid writer and characters could save it.
As opposed to fanwanking Jedi and Sith? I mean everything can be accused of Fanwank. And frankly the Mandos have been one of the better parts of the Disney Canon.
Right now no idea, and no idea as for actors and writers. Rumor has it Pedro Pascal.
Unfortunately after Force Awakens and Last Jedi, I just can't bring myself to muster anything more than resigned "meh" however, I just don't much interest in the franchise anymore.
So confirmation of what was rumored. Since the Last Jedi I've been trying to focus on what I enjoy in SW as opposed to getting to pissed off about how dreadful it was.
Looking forward to "The Mandalorian" the post OT time period should be interesting to follow.
DenofGeek has reason to believe shooting begins next week, so hopefully we’ll get more concrete info soon.
Plotwise, set 3 years after Jedi, and will focus on post-Empire Mandalore. Which sounds intriguing to me.
Ah. Fanwanking to Mandalorians and a bog-standard Tatooine set.
That isn't promising.
Any idea who's in it? A solid writer and characters could save it.
As opposed to fanwanking Jedi and Sith? I mean everything can be accused of Fanwank.
Not really. There are a lot of aspects of SW universe that can be explored.
A warrior cult that exists because fans built up a background character with a literal handful of lines and who died as comic relief is pretty much the definitional example of fanwank.
Almost nothing compares, despite how often they get set up as disposable mooks but are still somehow 'legendary warriors' in the endless sprawl of SW video games and novels..
From where Rebels left off, we may not see her. Though I suppose we might get voice recordings of her.
Hopefully we can get some cast info in the next few weeks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thinking about it, focussing on a Mandalorian makes a certain amount of sense.
They're renowned warriors, so seeing them kick bottom on the small screen whilst not getting shot themselves works.
Could be akin to Kung Fu? Wandering warrior just out and about exploring the Galaxy. And Mandalorians are less hackneyed to the casual fan than Jedi, which for the moment have been done to death.
I really hope this shows us new locales each season. That's something I've always enjoyed about Star Wars, particularly Clone Wars.
It's wierd because there's a few different flavours of hate-on people have for mandalorians: there's those who hate the old Legends mandalorians for being massive Mary Sues, there's those who hate the Clone-Wars mandalorians for not being the exact same Mary Sues, it's a broad spectrum.
I'm somewhere in that first camp, but I do think it's a good idea for a perspective character if they're going for a 'space western' kind of vibe.
Yup. If they lean in to the "space western" angle, keep us moving around lots of interesting locales and cultures, and avoid too much shoehorned "setup" stuff for the Sequels, this has huge potential.
Captain Joystick wrote: It's wierd because there's a few different flavours of hate-on people have for mandalorians: there's those who hate the old Legends mandalorians for being massive Mary Sues, there's those who hate the Clone-Wars mandalorians for not being the exact same Mary Sues, it's a broad spectrum.
I'm somewhere in that first camp, but I do think it's a good idea for a perspective character if they're going for a 'space western' kind of vibe.
Ugh, the legends mandalorians had issues thanks to one specific author making them the king of kings, and the gods of gods. Think how people think Matt Ward did Ultramarines and you have a good example.
DenofGeek has reason to believe shooting begins next week, so hopefully we’ll get more concrete info soon.
Plotwise, set 3 years after Jedi, and will focus on post-Empire Mandalore. Which sounds intriguing to me.
Ah. Fanwanking to Mandalorians and a bog-standard Tatooine set.
That isn't promising.
Any idea who's in it? A solid writer and characters could save it.
As opposed to fanwanking Jedi and Sith? I mean everything can be accused of Fanwank.
Not really. There are a lot of aspects of SW universe that can be explored.
A warrior cult that exists because fans built up a background character with a literal handful of lines and who died as comic relief is pretty much the definitional example of fanwank.
Almost nothing compares, despite how often they get set up as disposable mooks but are still somehow 'legendary warriors' in the endless sprawl of SW video games and novels..
Not really all that different from the Jedi and Sith in the manner of fan build up and spank. We see in the films Jedi die in droves, at Geonosis, Order 66, them simply naming that Vader is the last one of a dead religion. People will always take what they like and blow it up, its how any fandom works.
Boba is set up as an "Elite, but ultimately disposable" mook, he's shown to be respected on some level by Vader, there is alot of implied badassery in his appearance just by how people respond to his presence. We see similar with Jango, who is shown to be able to hold his own against Obi-wan, kill another Jedi with ease and then lose to Windu because his Jetpack was broken. There is alot to see in just a little given. Of course people are gonna run with it. The extent an author ( and then a large number of the fans) take it is an extreme. If Storm Troopers are supposed to be good, and we only ever see them suck, but then we see these other guys doing obviously much better, how is that supposed to go in the minds of people?
Yeah it's a new character, I heard one of the game of thrones actors might be playing him. Can't confirm that though, not much is truly known about the cast.
And what I'm really excite for is seeing the inevitable ships. Consider that the Falcon is pretty much a character in itself, and what they might do here? Your ride is as important as your lead, if you ask me.
Definitely and that seems to be a major premise behind Resistance. I really hope for something new and not a slightly different Firespray or Fang (or derivative).
Well, Slave-1 wasn't a Mandal Motors craft, but Kuat Drive Yards.
I'm kind of hoping we'll get an interesting new ship design. That's because I feel, barring the U-Wing, that's the one area Disney haven't tackled yet. Instead it's been more advanced, updated versions of the classics, or derived from concept sketches.
Now, there is a danger there. For every cool EU type design (Punishing One, Kihraxz) there's the effing awful (K-Wing, YT-2400, IG-2000, Misthunter. Only in my opinion like).
The ship needs to fit the character. Consider Solo. When Lando owns the Falcon, it looks more form over function. Nice and clean, lots of posh plating. When Han owns it? Battered, but well armed, armoured and with nice tricks. Those fit both their characters well.
What would a wanderer have on their ship? What would a lone Mandalorian (if indeed it is a Mandalorian in truth! Could be anyone under that helmet ) favour? Speed, manouverability? How to resist making the ship a Get Out Of Trouble Free card for the writers? Will we see the ship being upgraded as the story unfolds?
Yeah Slave 1 wasn't, doesn't mean the original Mando didn't use it though did it?
Personally I love all the Mandal designs like the Syck, Dunelizard and Kimoglia but they are all snub fighters and as far as I know the only heavier design that is cannon is the Lancer and that would just be dull. A cross between that and Kimoglia though would be my dream ship.
As it appears that the story is set around a Mando who is off on the Rim doing odd jobs then one would hope that the ship would be as battered as the Falcon, nasty and grimy battered and bruised. Really hope they delve into the old underworld with appearances from the Cartels, Syndicate and the Pyke.
Just thinking.....The Mandalorian could also be very good for the anthology films.
See, with this, they get a great chance to offer a variety of tones throughout the series. From quite heavy stuff, to lighter stuff.
If a particular writer or director (or both) chimes with the audience (consider how well Moffatt's episode were received during RTD's run), then it might be worth letting them work on a larger project?
Equally, this series can better afford the odd bum note here and there - all scifi has duff episodes, after all.
Indeed, reckon the world building is going to play a large part with this. Sci-Fi can really get away with rather flat characters if the world (galaxy) on a whole has a lot of depth and interest to it. I just hope they stay away from a bright and shiny aesthetic and try to work in a darker medium for both the plot and the set.
Looks good! That's an impressive list of directors as well, hopefully they don't get micromanaged by Disney as much as they were doing during the movies. A tv series is a great way to experiment with different ideas and styles so hopefully we will get some interesting episodes.
Pretty excited for this now I know it has a more gritty look to it. I loved Solo and Rogue 1 and it seems to channel a lot of inspiration from them as far as I can tell.
I'm glad they didn't go with Sabine but I don't think it was ever likely they've largely avoided putting lead characters from the animated shows into live action, Saw worked because he was a minor character, it was many years later and Forest Whitaker did the older version in both.
I have high hopes for this given the talent behind it and it's good to see Dave Filoni involved next to Lucas there's no one that knows more about the Star Wars universe - having worked side by side for a long time (even with his wolf fetish )
I kind of hope the Mandalorian remains unnamed and is just referred to by everyone else as "The Mandalorian". One of the things that added to the mystery of Boba was that he never took his helmet off but that won't work if you want to carry a whole TV series. The suit in the picture looks like a good mix of the classic Fett outfit and the more military look from Clone Wars and Rebels.
DaveC wrote: I'm glad they didn't go with Sabine but I don't think it was ever likely they've largely avoided putting lead characters from the animated shows into live action, Saw worked because he was a minor character, it was many years later and Forest Whitaker did the older version in both.
I have high hopes for this given the talent behind it and it's good to see Dave Filoni involved next to Lucas there's no one that knows more about the Star Wars universe - having worked side by side for a long time (even with his wolf fetish )
I kind of hope the Mandalorian remains unnamed and is just referred to by everyone else as "The Mandalorian". One of the things that added to the mystery of Boba was that he never took his helmet off but that won't work if you want to carry a whole TV series. The suit in the picture looks like a good mix of the classic Fett outfit and the more military look from Clone Wars and Rebels.
Very much agree. The Man With No Name could work so, so well. Perhaps have hints in the background. Build up the myth, at least for a while.
Why would it be assumed there aren't already those? We have Jango, whos actor is a Maori. Rebels and TCW shows Asian and White Mandos, its not like they are a race specific group.
And what I'm really excite for is seeing the inevitable ships. Consider that the Falcon is pretty much a character in itself, and what they might do here? Your ride is as important as your lead, if you ask me.
Yup yup. The show itself could be a garbage plot with garbage actors(not that I think it will), but at ~10mil an episode and what looks based on the admittedly sparse material so far like a fairly "classic SW/used future" aesthetic, the production design is going to add so much cool stuff to the setting. Ships, armour, blasters, new locations and cultures - for the type of people who like to buy the Visual Guide/Ultimate Guide books(ie, moi) this thing is going to be a fething goldmine.
I'm assuming we'll see the usual gruff reluctant hero as he experiences situations that leave him saddled with a crew of oddballs, which I think will work really well with a Star Wars theme. I liked the theory of shows like Andromeda, and lately Killjoys and Dark Matter, but they always had wierd, half-baked universes that didn't get explored thoroughly enough.
Whereas Star Wars has the right amound of background already established. Something like the grim feel of Killjoys in the Star Wars universe? Yes, please.
I kind of hope the Mandalorian remains unnamed and is just referred to by everyone else as "The Mandalorian". One of the things that added to the mystery of Boba was that he never took his helmet off but that won't work if you want to carry a whole TV series. The suit in the picture looks like a good mix of the classic Fett outfit and the more military look from Clone Wars and Rebels.
That ship has sailed, hasn't it? They shifted the Clone Wars cartoons back into the new movie continuity, which means the Mandalorians are just terrorists from a pacifistic urban society, using a culturally extinct warrior society to justify their actions.
I feel nostalgic for that old jango fett video game. Thinking back on it that felt more like star wars than any of the stuff disney has put out. With that old montross Mandalorian guy and all the locations. I hope they can capture some kind of feeling with this, beyond just being an action driven platform for politically correct ideas. Man I miss the days star wars used to put out stuff that was worthwhile. As far as i'm concerned, this is the last chance i'm giving this new era of Star Wars. Cause I thought the last few films were horrendous.
That ship has sailed, hasn't it? They shifted the Clone Wars cartoons back into the new movie continuity, which means the Mandalorians are just terrorists from a pacifistic urban society, using a culturally extinct warrior society to justify their actions.
IIRC the pacifism of the Clone wars era was a fairly recent thing championed by Duchess Satine and her followers that came about as a reaction to the Mandalorians near extinction. From what is shown in Rebels the clans are well on there way to embracing the old ways by the time of the rebellion. I imagine we will see more of how this shift happened in the new Clone wars episodes.
That ship has sailed, hasn't it? They shifted the Clone Wars cartoons back into the new movie continuity, which means the Mandalorians are just terrorists from a pacifistic urban society, using a culturally extinct warrior society to justify their actions.
IIRC the pacifism of the Clone wars era was a fairly recent thing championed by Duchess Satine and her followers that came about as a reaction to the Mandalorians near extinction. From what is shown in Rebels the clans are well on there way to embracing the old ways by the time of the rebellion. I imagine we will see more of how this shift happened in the new Clone wars episodes.
Yeah Rebels deals with how they are tired of being controlled by the Empire and Clan Saxon and the civil war that arises from that, it gets quite a big story arc. They are very much back to a clan based militaristic society by 1 BBY. The Mandalorian is set in 7 ABY so 8 years have passed giving plenty of time to set up a back story for the Mandalorian he could be an outcast from Clan Saxon, he could be Fenn Rau the last Protector, he could be anything.
Can any Gun People tell me - what's up with the whole canted scope thing? I understood the idea behind canted ironsights when those started popping up in all the "tacticool" shooter games, but surely for the scope you'd want it to be on the top?
The big ass tuning fork at the end of the barrel might get in the way of a top mounted sight. But like 40k, Star Wars tech operates on rule of cool first and foremost.
Thus far, everything is looking wonderfully utilitarian. The Mando itself, the rifle, the sets.
Definitely the ‘used’ galaxy we all know and love. Ships still remain a litmus test though! I’m hoping for a new design myself, but would be happy with ones plundered from the sketch book and old EU.
Just....not the Moldy Crow. Punishing One would be ideal.
As I understand it, the exact location of the sight is slightly less important than how accurately the sight is dialed in to where the gun actually shoots to. All other things being equal, yes, top mounted is slightly better, and when a tenth of a degree arc results in an inch or so over a hundred yards it does matter... with a gun. Who knows how much, if any, difference it would make with a blaster firing plasma bolts at around 180 mph.
And, as has been pointed out, the tuning fork on the end would cause problems with a top-mounted scope. The offset scope might also be easier to sight through when in Mandalorian armor. Or it might be a remote sight, with the aiming reticule displayed in the helmet.
We'd have to see it in use to draw any more conclusions beyond 'rule of cool'.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: How did they not look Mandalorian? We've seen Asian Mandalorians and Caucasian Mandalorians, New Zealand Mandalorians could be a thing.
Yeah, lets not forget that mandalor is a planet. Not a country. There are distinct differences in the features on people descended from England and France let along different continents. There is zero reason that anybody from any culture couldn't play any human from any planet in SW.
After being pleasantly suprised by the Solo movie I'm a little disapointed by this news. A loosly connected series of scum and villany films each focusing on different characters could have been fun, especially if it meant more of Donald Glovers Lando.
Shockaroonie, article writer thinks the Boba movie going away is good and closes out on that quote from TLJ that every single upjumped listicle-farming hack in geek media uses to decry any Star Wars stuff that still vaguely resembles Star Wars.
It is a shame if true, I was also looking forward to the hinted "scum series" of Story movies, but it does seem the cynics have "won" again with the prediction that Solo flopping would be taken as a mark against Solo and the anthology films generally rather than the more accurate assessment that it was down to a combination of garbage marketing & buzz management, stiff competition from other geek movies, and fans who'd lost faith in Disney 'Wars after TFA and/or TLJ.
I really, really hope this show is good enough and Star Wars'y enough to make up for whatever nonsense comes next with the films.
With regards to the scope, Mando helmets DO include rangefinders and targeting gear (it's what that antenna part that flips down is part of) - so they don't need to hold the scope to their eyes (helmet would get in the way, anyway)
I've no problem with Boba Fett appearing in the Mandalorian at some point but he better not be the Mandalorian I'd rather that he's a different character and suspect he will be.
Boba would be 42 at this time so he could play one or more of several roles - mentor, rival, colleague, antagonist. they'd likely have to recast as Temuera Morrison is 57 so he'd be to old to play a 42 year old Boba, if the helmet never came off it wouldn't matter who played him.
Yodhrin wrote: Shockaroonie, article writer thinks the Boba movie going away is good and closes out on that quote from TLJ that every single upjumped listicle-farming hack in geek media uses to decry any Star Wars stuff that still vaguely resembles Star Wars.
It is a shame if true, I was also looking forward to the hinted "scum series" of Story movies, but it does seem the cynics have "won" again with the prediction that Solo flopping would be taken as a mark against Solo and the anthology films generally rather than the more accurate assessment that it was down to a combination of garbage marketing & buzz management, stiff competition from other geek movies, and fans who'd lost faith in Disney 'Wars after TFA and/or TLJ.
I really, really hope this show is good enough and Star Wars'y enough to make up for whatever nonsense comes next with the films.
Episode 9 sales will tell the tale. I suspect they're going to be even more disappointing than TLJ sales were, but probably not as bad as Solo.
Yodhrin wrote: Shockaroonie, article writer thinks the Boba movie going away is good and closes out on that quote from TLJ that every single upjumped listicle-farming hack in geek media uses to decry any Star Wars stuff that still vaguely resembles Star Wars.
It is a shame if true, I was also looking forward to the hinted "scum series" of Story movies, but it does seem the cynics have "won" again with the prediction that Solo flopping would be taken as a mark against Solo and the anthology films generally rather than the more accurate assessment that it was down to a combination of garbage marketing & buzz management, stiff competition from other geek movies, and fans who'd lost faith in Disney 'Wars after TFA and/or TLJ.
I really, really hope this show is good enough and Star Wars'y enough to make up for whatever nonsense comes next with the films.
Episode 9 sales will tell the tale. I suspect they're going to be even more disappointing than TLJ sales were, but probably not as bad as Solo.
I dunno, it depends how well Disney can control the narrative. Of the three main issues with Solo, better management of the first could have mitigated the third quite a lot - ie, if more disappointed fans had the impression that Solo would end up being what it eventually actually was - a solid entertaining adventure movie that does what it says on the tin - they might have been willing to risk buying a ticket. As it was, a lot of the info & rumours coming out pre-release made it sound like it would be a total disaster and the marketing was almost nonexistent.
It could trend up again relative to TLJ; people who liked TLJ will go and see it regardless, so will the hyper-casual "what's on that I can use to silence the kids for two hours/waste an evening with my mates" cinemagoing audience, so the variable are the disappointed and dejected element of the fandom - not the tiny minority of rabid OT ultrafans or the even tinier minority of actual bigots who are routinely presented as being the only people not to enjoy Disney Wars, but the portion of the larger mass of casual fans who just thought TFA and/or TLJ were a bit gak and who've downgraded SW to "I'll catch it on Netflix" level. If they can be convinced that Ep9 is looking like a return to form it'll do well, if not your prediction is probably more likely.
Honestly though(to drift vaguely back towards the topic ), I'd almost rather The Mandalorian not only ends up being good, but does so well for Disney that they choose to invest the resources that were going towards the anthology films to TV productions instead. I loved Rogue One, but imagine what they could do with that kind of concept as a "Band of Brothers"-style "prestige" TV series like The Mandalorian. An Obi-Wan film would be cool, but you could get more mileage out of the "wandering Samurai/western" conception of his time in exile on Tatooine than one movie, it'd be great as a three episode "event miniseries". Star Wars isn't the MCU, I don't think it would be able to support Disney's initial desire of 1-2 movies a year every year even if TFA and TLJ and Solo had all been universally well-received and solid box office earners, but there's no reason Disney can't use the streaming TV side of things to produce their own "nuEU" with all the extra ideas.
Plus the more development of the setting moves to the TV side, the more control over it Filoni has and frankly I trust him to steer things right far more than I do the rest of the Lucasfilm management.
Vulcan wrote: Episode 9 sales will tell the tale. I suspect they're going to be even more disappointing than TLJ sales were, but probably not as bad as Solo.
Hoh Disney has it nice if 1 billion profit is dissapointing sales.
Vulcan wrote: Episode 9 sales will tell the tale. I suspect they're going to be even more disappointing than TLJ sales were, but probably not as bad as Solo.
Hoh Disney has it nice if 1 billion profit is dissapointing sales.
After $1.4 billion in ticket sales from TFA, yes, it was disappointing.
Sequels almost always do significantly worse than the first. Often loosing 50% or more of the profit margin of the previous entry. Going from 1.4 billion to 1 billion is both good and expected.
I know a lot of you didn't like the movie but I think it's very egocentric to keep assuming your dislike has had some kind of major impact when we are talking about profits in the 10 figure range.
Terminator
Budget: 6.4m
Box office: 78.3m
71.9m profit. made back 11.2x it's budget.
Terminator 2
Budget: 94-102m (Lets call it 98)
Box office: 523.7m
425.7m profit. made back 4.3x it's budget.
Alien
Budget: 9m-11m (lets call it 10)
Box office: 104.9m - 203.6m (lets call it 150)
140m profit. Made back 14x it's budget.
Aliens
Budget: 17m-18m (17.5)
Box office: 131.1m-183.3m (lets call it 157.2)
139.7m profit. made back 7.9x budget.
SW Episode 7.
Budget: 306m
Box Officer: 2,068b
1,762b profit. Made back 5.75x budget.
SW Episode 8
Budget: 317m
Box Officer: 1,333b
1,016b profit. Made back 3.2x budget.
It looks like a fairly predictable and consistent pattern to me. Even when many consider the second movie to be better than the first.
Somehow, I doubt Disney are using 80's action/horror franchises as their yardstick for success.
What Disney thought they were buying with Star Wars - however unrealistic their desire - was another Marvel Cinematic Universe. MCU sequels almost always make either about the same money as their predecessor, or substantially more, with the only real outlier being Age of Ultron. Dropping a quarter of a billion dollars off the box office of the previous installment is definitely not what they had in mind.
Also, you seem to have misunderstood what folk were saying(a common thread among TLJ advocates) - it's Solo's box office people are proposing was impacted to some extent by some people's dislike for TLJ, not TLJ's. That's not egotism, it seems a pretty reasonable interpretation of what's happened.
Empire Strikes Back Budget: 18-33m (Lets say 25.5m) Box Office: 534.1m-538.4m (Lets say 536m) 510.5m profit. 20x budget
You were saying?
I used films that had generally considered better sequels. 80's action horror wasn't the criteria. That pattern holds across all genres and all eras. It is incredibly rare that any movie breaks the mold.
What Disney thought they were buying with Star Wars - however unrealistic their desire - was another Marvel Cinematic Universe. MCU sequels almost always make either about the same money as their predecessor, or substantially more, with the only real outlier being Age of Ultron. Dropping a quarter of a billion dollars off the box office of the previous installment is definitely not what they had in mind.
I can agree that I think Disney execs wanted to turn SW into another MCU. But they have a history with sequels themselves. And the sequels have stuck to the pattern. Go look up and do the math on the Pirates of the Carribean movies. It looks the same.
Also, you seem to have misunderstood what folk were saying(a common thread among TLJ advocates) - it's Solo's box office people are proposing was impacted to some extent by some people's dislike for TLJ, not TLJ's. That's not egotism, it seems a pretty reasonable interpretation of what's happened.
I didn't misunderstand, and I don't care how anyone actually feels about the movies. Ive said it before, it IS unreasonable for you to think you had that kind of an impact on solo. Again, much more reasonable, it released after reports of troubled development, next to no promotion, and just after Infinity War and just before Deadpool 2. The bulk of the money...and by bulk I mean you guys who decided to boycot might make up a % or 2, of the money a movie makes comes from the general audiences. And the general audiences are not running out every week to watch a movie. And even if they were they are doing it for things they know about without reading news articles on the internet they have to search for to know the movie is coming out.
I LITERALLY responded to someone talking about TLJs box office directly. Here, il quote it for you.
Vulcan wrote: Episode 9 sales will tell the tale. I suspect they're going to be even more disappointing than TLJ sales were, but probably not as bad as Solo.
Hoh Disney has it nice if 1 billion profit is dissapointing sales.
After $1.4 billion in ticket sales from TFA, yes, it was disappointing.
Ctaylor wrote: You can’t subtract the production cost from the box office total to get the profit. Remember that the theaters take their cut (roughly 50%, but it varies by movie and over time), and there are substantial advertising costs. A movie has to make between 3x and 4x its production cost to start making a profit.
Of course, there are other revenue streams (like VOD, streaming rights, merch).
But that’s why the recent Ghostbusters remake was such a huge flop. It only did $229m box office with a $144m budget. It needed around a $400m BO to make money.
There are many factors that determine ultimate profitability of a movie. But we were not talking about that. We were talking about box office performance and what that could mean.
TLJ had predictable box office performance. And in fact was on the higher end of the expected. It in fact did great for a second movie in a trillogy. Calling its performance "disappointing" is denying the basic math and decades long trends.
Ctaylor wrote: Okay, if you're not talking about profit why are you using that word? It's misleading. I'd suggest "net".
I didn't mention anything about disappointing BO for TLJ. I don't really have an opinion about that.
I do have a pet peeve about people calling "gross BO - budget = profit" when talking about the movie business. It's not right. Comparing gross BO to budget is interesting indicator of a film's success, but doesn't tell the whole story.
I know you didnt. Vulcan did. I quoted it. Its the posts i was responding to. Our little back and forth isnt happening in a vacuum. I started with the things you are criticizing when i responded to somebody else.
Be pet peeved. It wasnt the point i was making. You didnt like the terminology i used? Good. Fine. Its not actually important and besides the point. I dont and didnt disagree with you about what actual profit ends up happening. It just wasnt the figure i was responding to.
When I first heard about this show, I was like "neato burrito", so here's a list of things I hope they'll do with the Mando show.
1. Introduce more astropolitical factions in the Star Wars universe. Whether they create some new ones, borrow some from the old EU (like the Chiss Ascendancy, Hutt Cartel, new CIS(?), New Sith Empire(?), etc.) or a mixture of both is fine by me. As long as those governments have flags, I'm a happy camper. Perhaps we could see some ship designs for the New Republic. Especially if these new factions (along with the New Republic) could show up as governments-in-exile represented by the Resistance as a whole, depending on how much of the Galaxy the First Order has occupied.
2. Introduce new space ships. Especially if they give the Mandalorian Empire (or whatever they end up calling the Mandalore polity in the show) a fleet of starships of their own which could be sold as merchandise for the Legion, Armada and X-Wing war games.
3. Borrow "heavily" (not the Mary Sue/Gary Stu aspects) from old EU Legends lore regarding Mandalorians. Such as the line of succession of Mandalores, Basilik War Droids, Old Republic history, whatever you can think of. As long as it mixes some old stuff with some new stuff really well, then that's fine by me.
4. Get some linguist to flesh out the Mandalorian language like they did for the Klingons from Star Trek.
These are the things I could think of at the top of my head at the moment of writing this. Perhaps I'll add more if I think of any new ideas. But we'll just have to wait and see about that.
Better make the thread title plural second live action series announced focusing on Cassian Andor before Rogue One (after would be difficult in fairness ) Diego Luna to reprise the role.
Gonna be honest, I have no real interest in a prequel for Cassian Andor. I liked him well enough, but there wasn't enough in Rogue One to make me want to see more of the man. His story was neatly summed up. Scarred intelligence vet, has blood on his hands, doesn't necessarily like it, died a hero. Yeah feels kind of complete to me.
How bout a Lando TV series with Glover? I'd give that a shot. Give the guy some right direction and I think he could carry it.
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
Or go way backwards.
I'd watch Young Yoda, or even a stories about the Republic at the height of it's prosperity 500 or so years BBY.
Why? We already saw yoda jumping about. It was ridiculous. Surely yoda rising up through the ranks, being a teacher, being a diplomat, sitting around and meditating during long years of relative peace,... That CANT be the most interesting bits. Especially when we already know how his story ends.
Why? Because he's Yoda, one of the series' most iconic characters. He was 900 years old and saw all kinds of stuff. A young less wise Yoda has endless opportunities for adventure.
He is iconic because of his age and his wisdom. Look at what the prequels did for anakin. You want that done to yoda?
You dont need all the details of every characters life. And in fact getting them could make things worse. Look at young indiana jone adventures. Did that really make indiana jones better? Nope. Luke had 20 years on a planet full of scum and villany and tusken raiders. Surely even owen and maru got up to some gak in their younger days. Wanna see those stories? I enjoyed solo and rogue one. But both movies were basically pointless with endings we already knew because we already saw what happened after.
Again, stop going back. Whats next. Thats the only bit that could possibly be really worth telling.
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
Or go way backwards.
I'd watch Young Yoda, or even a stories about the Republic at the height of it's prosperity 500 or so years BBY.
Why? We already saw yoda jumping about. It was ridiculous. Surely yoda rising up through the ranks, being a teacher, being a diplomat, sitting around and meditating during long years of relative peace,... That CANT be the most interesting bits. Especially when we already know how his story ends.
And yet Titanic was one of the biggest movies in recent history, despite everyone knowing how THAT story ended. Not to mention SW Episodes 1-3, and we all knew where that story ended.
You just have to accept that just because you have no interest in seeing what a young Yoda, or a young Lando, or a young Han Solo did doesn't mean that nobody wants to see it.
Lance845 wrote: He is iconic because of his age and his wisdom. Look at what the prequels did for anakin. You want that done to yoda?
No, but it's a little silly to pretend that everyone is as incompetent a story teller as Lucas and would fail just as badly.
You dont need all the details of every characters life.
I didn't ask for them. There thousands of years in the history of the Star Wars universe even after the Disney wipe. There's gonna be neat stuff to explore back there.
Again, stop going back.
Going back sometimes is fun. Lighten up a little.
Thats the only bit that could possibly be really worth telling.
Maybe some of us just have interest in seeing things that don't interest you? It's not a zero sum game. There's room in the franchise for a lot of stuff.
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
Or go way backwards.
I'd watch Young Yoda, or even a stories about the Republic at the height of it's prosperity 500 or so years BBY.
Why? We already saw yoda jumping about. It was ridiculous. Surely yoda rising up through the ranks, being a teacher, being a diplomat, sitting around and meditating during long years of relative peace,... That CANT be the most interesting bits. Especially when we already know how his story ends.
And yet Titanic was one of the biggest movies in recent history, despite everyone knowing how THAT story ended. Not to mention SW Episodes 1-3, and we all knew where that story ended.
We are not talking about seeing the very interesting story of the titanic. We are talking about seeing a titanic prequel about what the boat captain did in his 20s. SW 1-3 did SW no favors. I remember many people talking about how they ruined darth vader.
You just have to accept that just because you have no interest in seeing what a young Yoda, or a young Lando, or a young Han Solo did doesn't mean that nobody wants to see it.
I accept that other people have opinions different from my own.
Vulcan wrote: To be fair, after what Disney did to finish the Luke/Leia/Han story one has to wonder if they're the right people to do much of anything in the SWU.
I honestly don't mind the fates of Luke/Leia/Han. I think Han's was oddly fitting in a way, completely the journey of his character begun in ANH. Luke... I think Luke was a good idea handled poorly. A disheartened man who never managed to achieve the "tomorrow" he hoped for, especially as the hero of the previous trilogy is powerful storytelling, but TLJ I think had too many hurdles in it's way to make great use of it. Leia well... Carrie left us before she got to finish the role imo. I'd rather they simply retired here and just moved on myself.
Really the issue with the new films I think is that they
1) lack a cohesive direction tonally. TFA is a straightforward adventure flick. Classic Star Wars more or less, but then TLJ tried to be clever. I think regardless of whether you liked it or not we have plenty of indication that TLJ damaged the Star Wars brand a little bit and for me I pin the blame on the kind of movie it tried to be. The mainline trilogy is not the place to create a genre deconstruction, especially not one with no follow through and a plot littered with so many odd bits. Part of this is that the way the MCU is made was employed imo, but is the wrong method for creating a good trilogy that flows together. They needed one creative hand directing that project, not bring in Abrams to make one movie, then bring in a completely different kind of director to make another.
2) the setting of the new trilogy is... bland. Really really bland. The First Order and the Resistance and the fight between them lacks the same compelling flair of the Rebellion and the Empire and I'm just not really sure what's missing. It's not as good, and the universe they inhabit feels rather empty.
I'm not some whiner who's going to say Star Wars will never be good again, but I think Disney definitely needs to get a handle on the product and build it in a more concise manner if they want it to function like the MCU and churn out hit after hit. Right now their efforts seem to be suffering whip lash as the audience itself debates how much faith it has.
It goes in part with how nothing anyone did was ever going to be able to live up to fan expectations. It just wasn't a realistic goal.
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
Or go way backwards.
I'd watch Young Yoda, or even a stories about the Republic at the height of it's prosperity 500 or so years BBY.
Why? We already saw yoda jumping about. It was ridiculous. Surely yoda rising up through the ranks, being a teacher, being a diplomat, sitting around and meditating during long years of relative peace,... That CANT be the most interesting bits. Especially when we already know how his story ends.
And yet Titanic was one of the biggest movies in recent history, despite everyone knowing how THAT story ended. Not to mention SW Episodes 1-3, and we all knew where that story ended.
We are not talking about seeing the very interesting story of the titanic. We are talking about seeing a titanic prequel about what the boat captain did in his 20s. SW 1-3 did SW no favors. I remember many people talking about how they ruined darth vader.
You just have to accept that just because you have no interest in seeing what a young Yoda, or a young Lando, or a young Han Solo did doesn't mean that nobody wants to see it.
I accept that other people have opinions different from my own.
And yet here you are saying that such things that you are not interested in should not be done... even if others are interested. In short, you're telling us that what we might like to see is wrong.
We are not talking about seeing the very interesting story of the titanic. We are talking about seeing a titanic prequel about what the boat captain did in his 20s.
And...?
If the boat captain did noteworthy stuff in his 20's, that would potentially be a good movie. The fact that we know he eventually dies doesn't really change that.
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Lance845 wrote: . Look at what the prequels did for anakin. You want that done to yoda?
What the prequels did to Anakin wasn't an unavoidable side-effect of being prequels, just a side-effect of Lucas doing what he wanted rather than letting better storytellers do the job.
Hell, Anakin's story arc isn't even really that bad, other than the unnecessary silliness of the immaculate conception and Padme dying just because reasons... it's just eclipsed by terrible acting and worse direction. A better director would have done a better job of showing Anakin as a likeable character who slowly turns dark instead of as a whiny git who likes girls more than sand.
Look at young indiana jone adventures. Did that really make indiana jones better?
That's the wrong question.
The real question is 'Was it entertaining for its target audience?'
Luke had 20 years on a planet full of scum and villany and tusken raiders. Surely even owen and maru got up to some gak in their younger days. Wanna see those stories?
Is that a trick question? Yes, of course I want to see those stories.
I enjoyed solo and rogue one. But both movies were basically pointless with endings we already knew because we already saw what happened after.
So is it equally pointless to watch a movie more than once?
The point of a story isn't to find out how it ends. If that's all you want, why watch the movie in the first place? Just wait until it's released and google the ending. The point of a story is the part in between the beginning and the end.
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
Or go way backwards.
I'd watch Young Yoda, or even a stories about the Republic at the height of it's prosperity 500 or so years BBY.
Why? We already saw yoda jumping about. It was ridiculous. Surely yoda rising up through the ranks, being a teacher, being a diplomat, sitting around and meditating during long years of relative peace,... That CANT be the most interesting bits. Especially when we already know how his story ends.
And yet Titanic was one of the biggest movies in recent history, despite everyone knowing how THAT story ended. Not to mention SW Episodes 1-3, and we all knew where that story ended.
We are not talking about seeing the very interesting story of the titanic. We are talking about seeing a titanic prequel about what the boat captain did in his 20s. SW 1-3 did SW no favors. I remember many people talking about how they ruined darth vader.
You just have to accept that just because you have no interest in seeing what a young Yoda, or a young Lando, or a young Han Solo did doesn't mean that nobody wants to see it.
I accept that other people have opinions different from my own.
And yet here you are saying that such things that you are not interested in should not be done... even if others are interested. In short, you're telling us that what we might like to see is wrong.
Hey Vulcan, it's called having a discussion. And while you sit here defending your and others rights to have opinions other than my own you seem to want to tell me I am not allowed to have my opinion. I never said the word "wrong". In fact, the first thing I said to Hats was "Why?". So why not back the feth off or contribute to the conversation without telling ME that I am wrong for having my own opinions? That seem fair?
So is it equally pointless to watch a movie more than once?
The point of a story isn't to find out how it ends. If that's all you want, why watch the movie in the first place? Just wait until it's released and google the ending. The point of a story is the part in between the beginning and the end.
Its not that we already know how it ends. It's that the story looses a lot of it's weight when we already know where the character ends up. Any physical danger they end up in is superfluous and looses it's excitement. Han could not possibly suffer any major injury at any point in Solo because we know Solo has all his bits in 4-7. Ship can't get hurt THAT bad. Why? Because we've seen it latter. Was it really exciting to see him win it from Lando in the end or was it more just checking boxes to reach the status quo we know exists?
Luke loosing his hand in 5 is big and exciting. That whole fight is exciting because there are stakes we don't know when we first see it. If we saw 7/8 first and his robot hand then 4-6 would just be waiting for him to loose it. Just like 1-3 was just everyone waiting for vader to roll in lava. By the time the fight in 3 happens we all know EXACTLY how it ends because we already knew vader. All the excitement of that battle is drained from it for exactly that reason.
So lets go watch a yoda movie. Lets see him get into light saber fights where we know not once will he be touched by a light saber blade because his body is fully in tact years later. It's great. Best story telling we could get. Rogue One is better then solo because it involves characters whos fates we don't know so their actions and the consequences of those actions are all unknowns that could go anywhere. We know only that the deathstar plans get recovered. But nothing about the fates of the cast.
It's an important distinction that changes a lot about the viewing of the movie and the tension of a scene.
2) the setting of the new trilogy is... bland. Really really bland. The First Order and the Resistance and the fight between them lacks the same compelling flair of the Rebellion and the Empire and I'm just not really sure what's missing. It's not as good, and the universe they inhabit feels rather empty.
Stakes, and personal attachment.
The main characters suffer losses in the original trilogy (or even just the first movie), people they know, family, an entire world. Even the enemy leader makes it personal (torture) or is made personal- betrayal and murder (even if that turns out to be a 'Point of View' lie). The stakes are obvious, and rebels struggling against an evil Empire has easy and obvious parallels that a 20th century audience can twig to, and is acting in a way that's consistent with a fairly straightforward but identifiable goal (evil empire consolidates power- never said it was complex, which honestly was also part of the draw. Simple motivations are good for this type of story, which is where the prequels stumbled right out of the gate).
Han is pretty much explicitly taught that magic is friendship, and a cause, a moral purpose, is more important than money. [Somehow he unlearns all that in time for the new trilogy- no wonder he lost his home and place in the universe]
The characters in the new films... have no attachments. It isn't personal for them because they have no one, they just want to escape, to go away and be left alone. There is a government that should be fighting but isn't for unexplained reasons (which turn out to be completely daft in the secondary material), and the bad side is has infinite minions, infinite resources and multiple superweapons, yet somehow is only opposed by a few dozen people, most of whom are non-entities with no motivation at all (we aren't really introduced to them in any fashion). Then idiot director caps it off with some bizarre 'both sides are equally bad' exposition that makes no sense, because genocide != no genocide. Believing the 2nd film's moral narrative is valid requires insanity. And it's fairly tone deaf to an audience which is probably tired of horrible things and wants a heroic epic where good triumphs over evil. Something to aspire to after the banality of the work day and the horrors on display for the evening news ratings.
It goes in part with how nothing anyone did was ever going to be able to live up to fan expectations. It just wasn't a realistic goal.
I don't really agree with that. It just needed to be more than a paint by numbers copy or a absurdist deconstruction. They just needed to be a new star wars tale, with somewhat campy sci-fi action. People have been telling reasonable star wars stories in novels, comics, cartoons, RPGs and even fanfics for decades. That the new trilogy couldn't do that, or even match any of that body of work, was just sad.
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@Lance-
There are ways to damage a character that don't involve lopping off a limb. And many, many other ways to give the character stakes.
This is particularly true in a setting where taking a limb off is a trivial thing, 20 minutes later, Luke is in a bed with a brand new hand the functions and even reacts like his old one. It becomes symbolically important later, if briefly, but the hand itself is nothing with the medical tech available.
Lack of physical danger and major injury is a weird criteria. In 99% of Hollywood movies, every physical danger is entirely superfluous to the main characters of any story. If they get beat down, they'll get back up again, and only in rare occasions is it something permanent. Outlook and mental dangers are far more compelling.
The battle in three was dull because it was a half-hour of green screen nonsense with no weight to it. The details of the confrontation between Vader and Obi-wan should have mattered, but were passed over for jumping on 2-d platforms like a frikkin' Mario game. Bawl baby Anakin decides the Jedi are evil because they wouldn't give him the power he wanted. Boo-hoo. The characters were trivialized and the action was actively stupid (toxic and thermal shock would have dropped them a minute or two into the absurd extended sequence regardless of magic force fields). That's why it was a bad fight.
How they got there is far more important than how it ended. Unfortunately the prequels skipped those bits- Remember all those bits in #2 where they talked about saving each other and having adventures? Yeah. 2 should have been about that, not sitting on couches or riding in elevators.
There are a lot of things wrong with the prequels. I agree that a lot of the choreography and green screen work was total nonsense. But it was also a situation where we KNEW that not only was Obi going to get out unharmed and physically fine, but also ultimately mentally well rounded and doing fine.
Lukes hand getting fixed right after doesn't change the impact of the severed limb in the moment of the battle. When I watch Alien I know that Ash isn't going to shove that magazine down Ripley's throat and kill her because her crew shows up to save her. But the first time you see the movie before anyone shows up and even as the scuffle is going on shes in real danger there. Especially because it's a horror movie and it's not yet clear that shes actually the main character. But If we all watched Aliens first and then went back and watched Alien after we would all KNOW that Ripley could not possibly be killed in that moment. For that matter it would have sucked all the suspense from Kane and his face hugger/chest burster too. Shes gunna ultimately come out fine. It takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of those scenes if you go in with that knowledge
You can't look at the prequels and not admit that they ruin certain conceits of 4-6.
If you get a kid whos never seen SW and you watch them 1-6 in 5 when vader reveals that he is Lukes father the only person who doesn't know that is Luke. You, the audience, loose all the impact of that moment.
The same thing goes for the reveal that Yoda is Yoda on Dagoba. His whole goofy sham of testing Luke is ruined if you already know hes Yoda because you saw 1-3.
The same happens AGAIN with the reveal of Jaba being a giant horrible slug monster. You hear about him for 2 movies before he is finally revealed in 6.
But it's not just the conceits ruined in 4-6. 1-3 are devoid of these moments too. It's not a shocking reveal that Palpatine has been the Sith lord all along. We already KNEW that. As many misteps that the prequels have, they had to fight uphill (and ultimately failed) to have ANY of the big moments 4,5,6 had simply because everyone watching them already knew most of what those movies had to reveal. And what we didn't know just really didn't actually matter to the over all plot of the series.
Physical danger is only a single and most obvious example of what I was talking about. It's not like Han was going to suffer major psychological damage and end up a muttering wreck either. Yoda isn't going to go through anything that he doesn't ultimately come out of it being a super chill incredibly wise master of the force.
You can do prequels. You could even go so far back in SW history to tell an interesting story that can't possibly be related to any character that currently exists. Cool. That could be anything and the stakes could be anything. But exploring the history of people who we have already seen is a great big "Why?".
A good example I would say is the Fantastic Beasts movie. It's a all new character in a time predating all the other characters. Anything could happen and so it's all interesting. The closer they get to this Grindlewald and Dumbledore gak though the closer they get to a plot we already know before they have shown us anything. Dumbledore is going to ultimately be the guy who brings Grindlewald down and hes going to send him off to Azkaban. Because we already know that. It's in the other Harry Potter movies. Dumbledore isn't in any real danger and Grindlewald no matter what will sit in a cell with Dementors. Great.
You're still saying the exact same thing, just with more words. If you honestly can't see the appeal of having backstory fleshed out, that's fine, It doesn't mean those stories aren't worth making, just that they're not for you.
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
To you maybe, a fair few of us haven't seen anything yet to excite us about "what happens next", but still find plenty of joy in the eras we're already familiar with and know are good.
insaniak wrote: A better director would have done a better job of showing Anakin as a likeable character who slowly turns dark instead of as a whiny git who likes girls more than sand.
See; The Clone Wars TV show, which despite being a cartoon primarily for kids with the initially-horrifying addition of a plucky kid sidekick, managed to tell Anakin's story in a far more compelling and satisfying way and even turned the plucky sidekick into one of the best characters in Star Wars. But by LanceLogic they should never have made that - good job Filoni & Co operate on just your regular old fashioned normal logic.
As to the Cassian show - it could be great. I will say, I'm a bit wary of this kind of story without a K-2SO type character to provide a bit of occasional light comedy, so hopefully either K2's recruitment comes early in the show's run(even if that requires a wee retcon - I think they covered K2's recruitment in a comic or something but I don't know what the timeframe on that is in the setting relative to this show) or they have an alternative in mind, just watching Cassian be the pre-hopey-changey badman spy won't be as compelling as R1 I don't think.
Already, we've had Clone Wars and Rebels. Both of which I'd say did more for the wider universe than Rogue One and Solo (both of which I thoroughly enjoyed). There's also Resistance - but I've not been able to watch that yet, so shan't offer comment when I've no information!
In short, you can tell grander stories with them, because you've got more time.
As for Cassian? I'd love to see Forest Whittaker reprise Saw Gerrera yet again. Show us different aspects of The Rebellion. Rogue One showed us them getting their poop together at long last, and becoming more united. But we didn't spend quite enough time with Saw's merry band for my tastes. To use another rubbish analogy? Rogue One's depiction was looking at the menu. His star turns in Rebels? The starter. Now I want the main course. And dessert if there's room.
The TV shows also give them narrative playtime. Throw some stuff out there. See what sticks. That can then lead to a movie or two if there's sufficient demand.
Initially when I saw this, my immediate thought was 'why?' Not for any concerns about whether they go forward or backward, I'm all for further exploring characters and settings we already know and there's plenty of new stories to tell with them, but because for most of R1 Cassian was about as bland as cardboard. He was the Human Fighter of the party full of Monks, Assassins, Barbarians, to use an RPG analogy, and his arc was basically covered over the one scene where he decides not to shoot Galen Erso.
But thinking about it a bit more, a series could do a lot to remedy that. The most interesting thing he does in R1 comes right at the start when he kills an informant in cold blood to save his own skin and the intel he's gathered. It doesn't really come up in the film again, but winding the clock back a year or two would really help shed some light on exactly how he came to be that calculating and remorseless in a way few other good guys in Star Wars are. Desperation after months of fighting a losing battle? Fanaticism like Saw's rebels? Losing so many friends and allies life becomes cheap? There's definitely stuff to dig into there.
Naw see, Clone Wars was good. But not for the Anakin bits. (though they did show his fall better) The show REALLY got good when Ashoka grew to take more of a center stage and/or they started telling other characters stories like Rex and the other clones.
What made the Clone Wars tv series so good wasn't the focus on so many people we already knew but how many new people they introduced. Even when they bought back people like Maul it was moving his story forward in a way that could have ended up anywhere. Can you think of any REALLY great episodes of clone wars that were focused on Anakin or Obiwan but didn't push some other character with an unknown fate forward? Howmmany middling or forgettable Clone Wars episodes were there in that first season or 2 that was more focused on them?
And Rebels, again, wasn't about anyone we had seen before. When Vader or the Emperor showed up rarely it could mean ANYTHING for the protagonists. When Ashoka showed up it moved her story forward.
So now we've gone from "it's just bad" to "it's bad if it's not well executed". So, pretty much the same as everything then
And again, you state your opinion as if it's a universal fact - outside of the wonky Mortis arc I enjoyed all the Obi Wan and Anakin-centric stories to at least a reasonable degree, and I don't think it's fair to isolate more ensemble episodes as if they're distinct from the overall story of those characters - take away the ensemble episodes and the arcs for the "lead" characters are less satisfying, but if you strip away the more focused episodes then the ensemble tales would be less interesting as well since they would either be trying to cram development for the main characters in there which would limit the time for secondaries, or they would just act as if the development from the focused episodes had happened "off screen" and their motivations often wouldn't make sense based on their previous appearances. You don't get the satisfying interplay between Anakin, Ahsoka, and Tarkin without first establishing Anakin, then the relationship between Anakin and Ahsoka.
Lance845 wrote: There are a lot of things wrong with the prequels. I agree that a lot of the choreography and green screen work was total nonsense. But it was also a situation where we KNEW that not only was Obi going to get out unharmed and physically fine, but also ultimately mentally well rounded and doing fine.
Lukes hand getting fixed right after doesn't change the impact of the severed limb in the moment of the battle. When I watch Alien I know that Ash isn't going to shove that magazine down Ripley's throat and kill her because her crew shows up to save her. But the first time you see the movie before anyone shows up and even as the scuffle is going on shes in real danger there. Especially because it's a horror movie and it's not yet clear that shes actually the main character. But If we all watched Aliens first and then went back and watched Alien after we would all KNOW that Ripley could not possibly be killed in that moment. For that matter it would have sucked all the suspense from Kane and his face hugger/chest burster too. Shes gunna ultimately come out fine. It takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of those scenes if you go in with that knowledge
You can't look at the prequels and not admit that they ruin certain conceits of 4-6.
If you get a kid whos never seen SW and you watch them 1-6 in 5 when vader reveals that he is Lukes father the only person who doesn't know that is Luke. You, the audience, loose all the impact of that moment.
The same thing goes for the reveal that Yoda is Yoda on Dagoba. His whole goofy sham of testing Luke is ruined if you already know hes Yoda because you saw 1-3.
The same happens AGAIN with the reveal of Jaba being a giant horrible slug monster. You hear about him for 2 movies before he is finally revealed in 6.
But it's not just the conceits ruined in 4-6. 1-3 are devoid of these moments too. It's not a shocking reveal that Palpatine has been the Sith lord all along. We already KNEW that. As many misteps that the prequels have, they had to fight uphill (and ultimately failed) to have ANY of the big moments 4,5,6 had simply because everyone watching them already knew most of what those movies had to reveal. And what we didn't know just really didn't actually matter to the over all plot of the series.
Physical danger is only a single and most obvious example of what I was talking about. It's not like Han was going to suffer major psychological damage and end up a muttering wreck either. Yoda isn't going to go through anything that he doesn't ultimately come out of it being a super chill incredibly wise master of the force.
Of course, those movies earning hundreds of millions of dollars in ticket sales EACH undermines your message. Clearly lots of people DID want to see the stories you think were so unneeded.
I'd second what Voss said, and add that we also saw the organizations display character.
Much like Kylo, the First Order spends a lot of time telling you it's evil, then blows up a capital system and fleet. Before that, they attack an armed Resistance base camp and interrogate some dudes.
The Resistance... is looking for Luke (for no good reason), and pretty much spends the whole movie seeking that map, and attacking the super weapon after it's revealed and fired. Sadly, they don't seem very proactive about it.
Contrast that with the Empire. They attack a diplomatic vessel, kill its inhabitants and fake a senator's death. Kill an entire tribe of scavengers just for touching a robot they're after(because you know the Jawas sold them the location of where they sold and found R2 immediately). Then they killed and burned, hopefully in that order, an old farmer and his wife. That's the first 30 minutes, on a sparsely populated dirtball. When they do start blowing up planets they don't do it because there's a fleet there- they do it because its their prisoners home, and it might make them feel bad enough to talk. They consistently come across as callous, and inescapable.
The Rebels are mostly in the background. We know they fight against the Empire, but in the first film they couldn't care less about Han and Luke. Leia's important primarily because of her political position, past contributions and the plans for the Death Star that the Rebels stole before they ever fired the thing.
If the Resistance wasn't there, the First Order would make a cool speech, and build huge, cool spaceships and star bases. If the First Order wasn't there, the Resistance would... train X-Wing pilots?
Lance845 wrote: Oh yeah and TLJ making a billion means it must have been several magnitudes better and more desirable. Also clearly nobody wanted to see solo.
And tranformers movies. Pure cinematic gold while bladerunner and its sequel must be pure trash.
Lets not make a false equivalency where box office performance denotes anything like quality or a desire for what was actually in the movie.
Except Transformers 2+ continued to make huge boatloads of cash. A new movie franchise making a lot for the first while being trash fits your point, multiple subsequent movies continuing to do so suggests that it has found its audience and its large, irrespective of whether you may or may not believe them to be good.
Again, all circling back to the point that just because you don't think it's needed doesn't mean jack in the larger scheme.
Disney needs to cut their ties to the Original Trilogy, although the majority of their material being set during the Galactic Civil War shows they know that the setting of the current trilogy is crap, and they are only making money off the inertia of the Original Trilogy.
Make a series or trilogy set during the Old Republic/Sith war. Have absolutely no ties to the OT characters, and make good characters who don't need to ride their coattails to be any good, set in an awesome action packed setting, not a lazy retread of the OT. Awesome stuff like the Bioware trailers, and make it go in new directions.
AegisGrimm wrote: Disney needs to cut their ties to the Original Trilogy,
Agree. Either go so far back that anything that happens in it just has no impact on anyone or anything that we have already seen or jump so far forward that everyone we have seen so far is dead and maybe remembered in legends but likely just forgotten. Get away from what we have already seen though.
Lance845 wrote: Oh yeah and TLJ making a billion means it must have been several magnitudes better and more desirable. Also clearly nobody wanted to see solo.
And tranformers movies. Pure cinematic gold while bladerunner and its sequel must be pure trash.
Lets not make a false equivalency where box office performance denotes anything like quality or a desire for what was actually in the movie.
And let's not make a false equivalency where what you want to see is what everyone wants to see.
Lance845 wrote: Oh yeah and TLJ making a billion means it must have been several magnitudes better and more desirable. Also clearly nobody wanted to see solo.
And tranformers movies. Pure cinematic gold while bladerunner and its sequel must be pure trash.
Lets not make a false equivalency where box office performance denotes anything like quality or a desire for what was actually in the movie.
And let's not make a false equivalency where what you want to see is what everyone wants to see.
I never said that.
I have avoided answering you every time you make this ridiculous accusation because it's an incredibly stupid thing to assume anyone is saying if they don't FLAT OUT say it. Do you REALLY need to me to say at the end of every post "These things are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason."?
Are you so butt hurt that I don't begin and end every post with "IMO... ,but thats just my opinion" that you can't piece together the fact that I am talking in a thread with others about a subjective mater that the point of view I am speaking from is my own?
You not agreeing with me is fine. Nobody has to agree with anybody. But try to have an actual conversation instead of picking battles about really dumb petty gak that nobody actually said. Cool? Thanks. Maybe Il just add it to my sig for you so that you can move on.
Actually Lance, the problem is exactly that you don't discuss things as if you're putting forward an opinion. You don't proffer a view, you make statements in language that doesn't even remotely suggest room for disagreement, and when someone uses that style it actually is pretty reasonable to drop an "IMO" in there now and again, otherwise they come off as dismissive. I catch myself doing the same thing sometimes.
Anyway, topic wise, I have to say I really don't get where this "they have to get away from the OT" thing comes from. It's a popular era with a great aesthetic and pretty much universal and timeless themes, and there's a whole galaxy over a period of several decades if you fudge the line a little and dip into the Rise of the Empire stuff as well(and why wouldn't you) to explore. I'd be happy to see them do some work in the KotOR era, or do some future stuff that's vaguely interesting and original, but I don't think it's necessary for the license to flourish.
Except that when others do discuss with me i answer them. Not with "no. You are wrong." But with debate and supporting arguments for my opinion. I dont actually care if anyone agrees or disagrees. I enjoy the back and forth when the back and forth has substance.
When its vulcans petty bs its not worth answering. When its hats saying he wants to see young yoda i say "why?". Yeah, im blunt. But i never once told hats or anyone else they were wrong for wanting to see millions of dollars put into a story that, imo (rolls eyes), is going to end up shallow and lacking the punch and drama the good entries in the franchise are known for because thats what happens when you go backwards to explore things that just dont really matter and whos outcomes have already been explored indirectly.
You can WANT it all you want. Good on ya. They might even make it. They have before. But the amount of times its been done in any kind of satisfying way is marginal at best. Good luck! I still think the best move is to jump forward and leave everything we have seen so far behind. And if you must go back, to go back so far that the rest of it might as well not exist. Would be happy to have someone convince me it could be good otherwise. Convince me. Or dont. It doesnt actually matter.
Anyway, topic wise, I have to say I really don't get where this "they have to get away from the OT" thing comes from. It's a popular era with a great aesthetic and pretty much universal and timeless themes, and there's a whole galaxy over a period of several decades if you fudge the line a little and dip into the Rise of the Empire stuff as well(and why wouldn't you) to explore. I'd be happy to see them do some work in the KotOR era, or do some future stuff that's vaguely interesting and original, but I don't think it's necessary for the license to flourish.
I listen to a DnD podcast (Dnd is for Nerds) and they have a side podcast called "Hey DnD it's me, Adam" where the DM basically talks about stuff in the games or the game in general. All kinds of stuff. In DnDifN they will make new characters and jump to other parts of the world and tell new stories pretty regularly. Each story is maybe 6-10 hours? They answer questions in HDnDIMA. One of the questions was "Can we get some more stories about x or y character. I really like them. I would love to know what they did after z story." and Adam and the players of those characters went on to explain that when we saw that story that was basically a snap shot of one of the most interesting things in their life. It doesn't really matter what they did after. Merry, Pippen, Sam, and Frodo don't go out and do more big adventures after LotRs. They get married and have kids and live their lives. x character never really liked all the traveling around. They wandered away from all the things they grew to hate and settled down somewhere. Their big story was told.
In the SW Galaxy during the OT the only story that really matters is the one we saw. Other people were running around doing things during the War of the Ring but none of them are ending the war. It's less that theres no interesting stories happening in and around the galaxy at that time and more that those stories will only ever be second or third string to the story we already saw and at best will exist in the shadow of the heroes we already had. Getting away from the OT is a chance to tell the most interesting stories in a new era where the big and exciting and thrilling things that make the space opera/epic good in the first place can flourish again. Otherwise it's a continual downward spiral of diminishing returns.
LordofHats wrote:Gonna be honest, I have no real interest in a prequel for Cassian Andor. I liked him well enough, but there wasn't enough in Rogue One to make me want to see more of the man. His story was neatly summed up. Scarred intelligence vet, has blood on his hands, doesn't necessarily like it, died a hero. Yeah feels kind of complete to me.
How bout a Lando TV series with Glover? I'd give that a shot. Give the guy some right direction and I think he could carry it.
I would definitely like to see a Lando spinoff of some kind. Be it TV, Movies or whatever. Hell, I wouldn't mind a Solo television series that starts where the film left off and shows his pre episode 4 adventures and maybe all his journeys between the episode 6-7 gap if possible. Same with Boba Fett to be honest, but they scrapped that for now. Though it would be cool if Solo became the unofficial pilot for a Han Solo centric tv show.
LordofHats wrote:
Lance845 wrote: Stop going backwards. All the most interesting bits are what happens next.
Or go way backwards.
I'd watch Young Yoda, or even a stories about the Republic at the height of it's prosperity 500 or so years BBY.
I would definitely like to see a Yoda movie/tv show as well. Especially if it can give us plenty of lore about the Jedi and/or politics of the Old Republic during his young adult years. Especially if we can finally get a tangible name for Yoda's alien species. Here's how I would go about introducing TV shows if I were Disney.
1. Solo: A Star Wars Story begets Solo: The TV Series
2. Fett: A Star Wars Story begets Fett: The TV Series
3. Lando: A Star Wars Story begets Lando: The TV Series
4. Yoda: A Star Wars Story begets Yoda: The TV Series
Have certain character centric film spinoffs serve as quasi-pilots for TV shows. I personally wouldn't mind a "Rogue Two" of sorts so that we can finally see the Bothans on screen. But the thing is, will they keep the same appearance they had in legends or will they alter their appearance because reasons? (Somewhat unrelated tangent, but I'm kind of salty that Ventress's species was retconed from Ratataki to Dathomirian, which I wish was a Zabrak/Ratataki hybrid species instead of a Zebrak/Human hybrid.)
Lance845 wrote: He is iconic because of his age and his wisdom. Look at what the prequels did for anakin. You want that done to yoda?
No, but it's a little silly to pretend that everyone is as incompetent a story teller as Lucas and would fail just as badly.
To be fair, after what Disney did to finish the Luke/Leia/Han story one has to wonder if they're the right people to do much of anything in the SWU.
I'm still salty that the New Republic got curb-stomped straight from the get go. Hopefully they (along with other interstellar governments) show up in the final movie of the sequel trilogy, somehow.
AegisGrimm wrote:Disney needs to cut their ties to the Original Trilogy, although the majority of their material being set during the Galactic Civil War shows they know that the setting of the current trilogy is crap, and they are only making money off the inertia of the Original Trilogy.
Make a series or trilogy set during the Old Republic/Sith war. Have absolutely no ties to the OT characters, and make good characters who don't need to ride their coattails to be any good, set in an awesome action packed setting, not a lazy retread of the OT. Awesome stuff like the Bioware trailers, and make it go in new directions.
Agreed, a series of films/television shows adapting the events of KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2 and SWTOR would be pretty cool.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Teeny update.
Taika Waititi and Carl Weathers both apparently up for roles in the show.
Whether one-offs, cameos, permanent or recurring, who knows!
I thought Waititi was just gonna write an episode or two of the Mandalorian. Though if that's the case, I could see him writing a comedic episode for whatever character he's playing.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:Depending on the article you read, Pedro Pascal has either been officially cast as the lead in Star Wars: The Mandalorian or is in negotiations.
He doesn't really look like Temuera Morrison, so if he gets the role, I'm assuming that rules out any theories that the titular Mandalorian is Boba Fett, right? Maybe not, who knows.
He doesn't really look like Temuera Morrison, so if he gets the role, I'm assuming that rules out any theories that the titular Mandalorian is Boba Fett, right? Maybe not, who knows.
There are more mandalorians than the fett.
and from what I've read, the titular mandalorian isn't meant to be the fett at all. Just ANOTHER one of his people.
Turnip Jedi wrote: But isn't there some question of Jango's (and therefore Boba's) actual heritage that he's not Mandalorian at all or am I'm muddling my EU/Canon lore
Jango claims to have been born on Concord Dawn making him a Mandalorian but during the Clone Wars series Almec disputes this claim whether it’s true or not or it was meant to discredit/disavow Jango is open for debate as I don’t think it’s been addressed further.
“Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me.”
That was said by the one of the head politician for the pacifist movement, so may be a bit biased.
They would like to distance themselves from his violent reputation and borderline criminal job.
Turnip Jedi wrote:But isn't there some question of Jango's (and therefore Boba's) actual heritage that he's not Mandalorian at all or am I'm muddling my EU/Canon lore
DaveC wrote:
Turnip Jedi wrote: But isn't there some question of Jango's (and therefore Boba's) actual heritage that he's not Mandalorian at all or am I'm muddling my EU/Canon lore
Jango claims to have been born on Concord Dawn making him a Mandalorian but during the Clone Wars series Almec disputes this claim whether it’s true or not or it was meant to discredit/disavow Jango is open for debate as I don’t think it’s been addressed further.
“Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me.”
Kale wrote:That was said by the one of the head politician for the pacifist movement, so may be a bit biased.
They would like to distance themselves from his violent reputation and borderline criminal job.
I certainly hope that Jango (and by extension Boba) is a legit Mandalorian that was besmirched by the pacifist movement.
Don't really like that retcon all that much, nor the one where Asajj Ventress was changed from a Rattataki. The least they could've done was make the Dathomirian species a hybrid race of male Zabrak and female Rattataki instead of going the Zabrak/Human route.
So Nick Nolte's character is an Ugnaught he's just the voice and some motion capture for an animatronic worn by another actor.
Nolte’s character will not be digital. It doesn’t appear Nolte is performing the role on set either. Instead a new practical animatronic mask has been developed that works on voice command. So the mask which is being worn by a small woman matches Nolte’s infliction perfectly. The mask’s mouth movement is said to be phenomenal. MSW sources also have said that the mask was developed by Stan Winston’s shop of experts.
Interesting that they are using animatronics over CGI probably easier and cheaper for TV.
Some of the original trilogy bounty hunters are in.
Not sure whats spoilerish for people so spoilered for now
Spoiler:
IG-88 is confirmed to appear along with an as yet unnamed Trandoshan who's probably Bossk.
Interesting, I think that might be the first Ugnaught depicted anywhere to speak Basic then? In Rebels Hondo has to learn to speak their language, I always got the impression they had a similar thing going on to Wookies, ie learning to understand Basic is fine but speaking it was a no-go.
Apparently it's not unheard of but they tend not to learn basic as they don't like to interact with other species
Few Ugnaughts learned Basic, because they were not fond of prolonged contact with Humans or other species. Those who do, however, were quickly fluent in both Ugnaught language and Basic, being literate in both languages.
The Star Wars Ultimate Alien Anthology is the source of the quote.
Turnip Jedi wrote: But isn't there some question of Jango's (and therefore Boba's) actual heritage that he's not Mandalorian at all or am I'm muddling my EU/Canon lore
Jango claims to have been born on Concord Dawn making him a Mandalorian but during the Clone Wars series Almec disputes this claim whether it’s true or not or it was meant to discredit/disavow Jango is open for debate as I don’t think it’s been addressed further.
“Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me.”
The series also makes claims that all Mandos that aren't Deathwatch are Pacifists, yet in Rebels when we meet Fenn Rau and the Protectors we're given the story of them fighting in the Clone Wars (for the Republic) and I believe its even mentioned that the Deathwatch and Pacifists were just the Vocal Minorities, with a large number of Mandalorian Sector persons continuing to live as they had.
Yeah, I mean the whole "New Mandalorian"/pacifist thing couldn't have been that well bedded-in, given it only takes a few attacks by criminals and a stirring speech by Visla to get a crowd that looks to number in the hundreds of thousands chanting "WAR!".
IG 88 is confirmed to appear (that was in my spoiler above) but that’s not IG-88 as he still has his bandolier. He is part of the Droid Gotra (clan) who will also appear so it’s likely that other similar droids will appear.
IG-88 is apparently affiliated with the group and we have seen evidence the droid appears in the series with other droids that have a bone to pick with their enemies.
IG-88 has recently been seen on set, filming his close-ups, and being the star that he is on the set of The Mandalorian. The old-time bounty hunter isn’t just standing around either–we’ve had credible reports about blasters being fired and he’s riding speeder bikes and attacking enemies.
I was concerned that perhaps it was just an IG Assassin Droid like we saw in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. But the droid is being referred to as IG-88 and appears to have the same bandolier.
Hot damn, if they're using the Droid Gotra from the novels/comics...could we maybe see Triple-zero and Beetee? Maybe even an older and (only slightly)wiser Aphra(if they've killed any of them off already, don't say anything since I've not read the most recent issues)?
They seem to be keeping things tightly under wraps during filming so little in the way of news but R5-D4 has a part in it - the Astromech droid from A New Hope that blows a motivator when Luke buys him from the Jawas
I really hope they dont do cameo and reference fest. Put in a character if they would be important to the plot. But its an entire galaxy of droids and people. Dont just parade around the same few dozen for people to point at.
Its always a danger for SW and something they have seemed to love doing in all the series, probably the least apparent in Resistance which is quite frankly, pants.
I just saw that Bossk is rumored to have an appearance in this, surely not? He must be really old (not that I have any idea of how long Trandoshans live but he was active in the clone wars).
ingtaer wrote: Its always a danger for SW and something they have seemed to love doing in all the series, probably the least apparent in Resistance which is quite frankly, pants.
I just saw that Bossk is rumored to have an appearance in this, surely not? He must be really old (not that I have any idea of how long Trandoshans live but he was active in the clone wars).
Well he was active in Empire. But thats pretty much my point. What was the purpose of throwing Bossk into the clone wars? You made other new compelling bounty hunters like Cad Bane. It's like when the falcon was in the background in the prequels. Why? It's the lowest hanging and corniest fruit to make those kinds of references and SW just can't seem to help itself.
fething the inconsequential droid that blew a gasket is going to appear. ::smh:: GREAT!
ingtaer wrote: Its always a danger for SW and something they have seemed to love doing in all the series, probably the least apparent in Resistance which is quite frankly, pants.
I just saw that Bossk is rumored to have an appearance in this, surely not? He must be really old (not that I have any idea of how long Trandoshans live but he was active in the clone wars).
My memory in the old canon is that they could live a long time but rarely did, since their species had a prediliction for career paths that tend to have the "early grave" retirement plan.
Yes, this. I am not sure how anyone could even know if it was the same one anyway, I don't recall it being called by its full designation in ANH.
Disappointed that there have not been any spaceships shown so far (if I missed them, link please!) as that is what is the major draw for me. Its nice though that the director(s) are actually SW fans and want to remain true to the feeling of the OT, we will just have to hope that that doesn't mean that they feel the need to rehash it, again....
There was a book of Star Wars short stories published in 2017 called a “Certain point of view” which is canon. There is chapter called “ The Red One” that deals with R5-D4 his designation is confirmed there. R2 recognises that R5 is a threat to his mission so initially tries to sabotage R5 but R5 catches R2 in the act so R2 explains his mission and after a lot of pleading by R2 when Luke is buying the droids R5 deliberately blows his motivator so Luke had to buy R2 instead. R5 escapes when the Stormtroopers wipe out the Jawas.
Although the bit about R5 deliberately blowing his motivator to help R2 out has been around for a long time. I suspect it's a bit of 'technical manual' guff that's been accepted as canon somewhere along the line.
Why couldn't the droid just be a piece of gak that broke down? Why does everything have to be destiny?
SW is so bogged down by its own bull gak most of the time.
But it's not "destiny" either way. It's a random event, or it's one character persuading another character to do something.
Also even if it was "destiny", err, it's Star Wars, a property that is literally based on a story about The Chosen One(s) bringing balance to a mystical cosmic force that, among other things, lets people predict the future. So it would be less a case of "SW...bogged down by its own bull gak" and more one of you not liking the basic core premise of the whole IP and being irrationally annoyed when it adheres to that core premise.
I swear people baffle the hell out of me sometimes, it's like when folk profess to like Star Trek but get annoyed when it's not dark and gritty.
Really, the 'destiny' option would have been for it to have been a seemingly random event. Having it be a deliberate act by the droid isn't 'destiny'... it's just shoehorning in unnecessary detail.
You know what else is a random event? In the original movie uncle owen was gunna buy the red one. Then it broke. He had a used car dealer type conversation with little desert junk dealers and then they bought the blue one instead.
However many years later writing a story that gives the prop that was the broken droid a story that turns it into a "noble sacrifice" is starwars bogged down by its own bs.
Lance845 wrote: You know what else is a random event? In the original movie uncle owen was gunna buy the red one. Then it broke. He had a used car dealer type conversation with little desert junk dealers and then they bought the blue one instead.
Yes, that's the point. If that had just been a random event, that would have been 'destiny' at work.
The added fluff makes it not a random event. The purchased droid deliberately sabotaged itself so that Owen would buy the only other astromech droid in the lineup. Not destiny. Deux Ex Droid.
I did just realise that it never even occured to me before to wonder just why a moisture farmer was buying an astromech droid... At least there was a reason for buying C3PO
I always figured the astromech droids were a general repair and program droid. The moisture farmer could use it to keep all his collectors running and provide general maintainence.
Yeah, compare the amount of time that Astromechs are seen... astromeching compared to just generally bimbling around the place fixing stuff and operating computers. The Astromech is the swiss army knife of droids.
They're useful. They can interface with computers, and other droids, so if something is going Pete Tong, plug in your Astromech, and they'll be able to sort stuff out.
They seem to be able to do everything/anything. Quite remarkable for what is supposed to be a giant calculator. Still providing they don't go full Skippy I can cope.
I don't think it would be Owen's first choice if he'd been handed a copy of Industrial Automaton or Cybot Galactica's catalogues and an unlimited credit card (there's probably some sort of agri-droid or the like that would be better value for money), but given that he's buying 2nd-hand from the scrappy, an astromech droid is probably the best thing available. C-3PO is the odd choice, I always thought.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I don't think it would be Owen's first choice if he'd been handed a copy of Industrial Automaton or Cybot Galactica's catalogues and an unlimited credit card (there's probably some sort of agri-droid or the like that would be better value for money), but given that he's buying 2nd-hand from the scrappy, an astromech droid is probably the best thing available. C-3PO is the odd choice, I always thought.
I believe he asks c3-p0 if he can speak some specific droid language for some piece of machinery he has. 3p0 says its like a second language to him and he waves off the rest of his nonsense and says he will take the protocol droid.
He gets him specifically to smooth out the wrinkles of working with his hodge podge machinery.
He asks if 3PO speaks 'Bocce', and then clarifies that he needs a droid who speaks the 'binary language of moisture vaporators'... which may or may not be the same thing.
Footage from Star Wars Celebration (off screen filmed on a phone). The trailer is at the end of clip 1 and there’s a separate production trailer in clip 2 they probably held back public release due to episode IX trailer releasing on the same day.
Glad he keeps the helmet on in the clips shown, no name has been given for the Mandalorian so hopefully they stick with him being nameless and Kowakian monkey-lizard on a split
It’s confirmed that it takes place 5 years after RoTJ, the ship is called the Razorcrest and Gina Caranos character Cara Dune is an ex rebel shock trooper that struggles to reintegrate into society.
The MCU is a very different beast. It's wide variety of characters and settings comfortably allows for 2-3 movies each year - and it doesn't really require any of them to be a big crossover. We're just spoiled in that respect
Star Wars? For the first 19 years of my life, I only had 5 films, including the two Ewok ones (which I have a soft spot for, bobbins as they are). By my mid-20's, that was 8 movies.
But it's all essentially a single narrative (barring the Ewok movies). And that can't really sustain the Marvel Model of at least one every year. It's not what the fanbase is used to, and dare I say it, isn't what the wider public really want.
The TV series at least offer us something we're more accepting of as a wider audience. Decent budget, bingeable sci-fi drama. A potential fill for the void that Game of Thrones is about to leave in my life, and the life of others.
The comparison to the MCU is usually about two things; Disney's expectations, and how modern interconnected-narrative franchises need to be run based on pretty much the only example that's managed to get it right and keep getting it right.
Disney didn't buy Star Wars to put out one movie every 3-5 years, and honestly I don't think their original plan was unrealistic at all - I was quite happy with the idea of alternating years of three big blowout linked movies and three side stories not bound to those trilogies, and I suspect it was a model they could have easily sold to the public at large; full-on fans have been consuming tons of extra content for years, making some of that additional movies wouldn't have altered that, and general audiences would just not bother with the ones that grabbed them in the same way your typical cinemagoer only bothers with one or two MCU movies a year, and some only bother with the "big event" ones. The problem is, while that isn't on the level of Marvel's mental 3-4 movies a year, it's still attempting to position Star Wars as a "brand" that you go and see because it's Star Wars, not because it has Luke Skywalker or Leia or Rey in it, and that means it needed a similar approach - a singular vision to drive the broader project. A flexible vision, a vision that can accommodate other perspectives and voices, which can adapt to shifts in the marketplace and audience perceptions & preferences, but a single guiding hand on the tiller who could define exactly what "Star Wars" would mean in terms of the pitch to audiences and ensure everyone who came on board coloured mostly within those lines.
What Kennedy tried to do instead was the Warner Brother approach - pitch it to everyone as a big interconnected "world", but then leave individual filmmakers pretty much to their own devices. It's pretty evident that model doesn't work, since it creates an "expectation gap" between what a lot of people think they're going to get when they fork over for a ticket, and what they actually get in any given case; some people don't mind that, many more do, and a fair number mind it quite a lot.
All that said, while I don't think doing Star Wars on the telly is the only way to pump it out regularly without causing "fatigue"(a largely mythical phenomenon), I do think it's pretty much the only move they have at this stage. Switching the focus to the small screen ensures they're still getting at least some value out of the franchise by driving subs to Disney+, and gives them breathing room to decide what to do, whether that's to try and wait-out the backlash and then proceed with a modified version of the prior planned slate, or to let things die down a bit and then do some personnel changes for ostensibly unrelated reasons.
In the end though, I don't really care how I get my Star Wars, so long as it actually feels like Star Wars, I just want it, so as long as the telly is good and keeps coming they can leave the franchise out of the cinema forever as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, the franchise fatigue angle is just plain BS and the Marvel universe proves it. If you have a large IP with lots of characters, you can sustain multiple releases per year as long as the stories and characters are written to be engaging; that isn't the case with Disney (Star) Wars. The problem isn't the number of movies that came out with but rather the quality of the ones that did for alot of fans like myself. I'm hoping that the Mandalorian breaks that streak.
See, I don't think the MCU approach would work for Star Wars on the big screen.
The stakes of each movie are just too high, traditionally. I think that's at least partially reflected in Solo. It just doesn't tie into anything, and didn't really add to anything.
But. If they did a Crimson Dawn TV series? Far more interesting, and a better scale for smuggling shenanigans. Plus, there's always the opportunity to bring in Han, Chewie, Lando et al for episodes. With hours to play with, even if it's a 'we'll start with one season, specific beginning, middle and end for the story, and see how it goes' you can just tell a far, far richer story than you can with a film. And given the reveal at the end of Solo, I am some way convinced they've got plans up their sleeves for just that. It also helps cement Solo somewhat in the wider canon, rather than being somewhat throwaway (but still enjoyable, don't get me wrong). Consider how much The Clone Wars tv series did for the prequel era. It was nothing short of superb, despite the odd bum note. Far better job exposing the hypocricy of the Jedi order, and demonstrating just how solidly Palpatine had planned it all out. 5 seasons, some unfinished stories and an extra one. Luvverly. We saw the Galaxy as never before, and the whole of Star Wars benefitted (especially when they used Rebels to tie up plot threads. Very satisfying).
Heck, nail your TV series, and there's the opportunity to translate the endings to the Big Screen. Potentially. Dunno if that's been done before, I suspect not. But the option is there.
Now I'm not going to touch on Resistance, as I've not seen it. And I cannot for the life of me find a legitimate media to let me see it! Role on Disney+ I guess
warboss wrote: Yeah, the franchise fatigue angle is just plain BS and the Marvel universe proves it. If you have a large IP with lots of characters, you can sustain multiple releases per year as long as the stories and characters are written to be engaging; that isn't the case with Disney (Star) Wars.
It's precisely because the movies focus on different characters and stories that it's able to avoid franchise fatigue (though we might see a change in the waters post Endgame) while Star Wars seems to struggle precisely because they're unwilling to make the leap of faith neccesary, instead resorting to half-steps.
Rogue One introduces new characters with their own adventure and offsets it by clinging as hard as it can to the mainline movies with actor and theme cameos of prequel trilogy actors and CGI recreations of OT actors, Solo tries to have its own adventure divorced from the actual mainline movies but keeping some of the central characters.
But in much the same way people's attitudes towards the marvel movies would be very different if every single one of them involved Captain America prominently and tied every villain to Hydra, the instinct to push the 'grand unified project' early risks stifling the franchise before it gets off the ground.
With that in mind, the Mandalorian is an opportunity to truly branch out. If they can resist the urge to make the primary antagonists imperial remnants scooping up resources to found the First Order with, they can take the time to build up the setting to make it clear its a big wide galaxy where people who aren't named Skywalker live.
Star Wars in cinemas haven't interested me in a while. Of the newest 4 films I've only liked one of them (Rogue One), with one of them being ok (A New Hope 2), one being basically fine but unnecessary (Solo) and one being utter drek (TLJ).
TV is where SW has kept me interested. I cannot wait for Clone Wars to return, and after a rocky super kid-i-fied start, Rebels turned into a great show. This Mandalorian show, from all that's been leaked, looks fantastic, and the pedigree of the people behind it is excellent (and no Rian Johnson, always a bonus!).
So screw the movies. The future of SW is television.
Hope that music isn't from the show, sounds pretty generic, like some ordinary action thriller. I kinda wish they had shot it on film or did a grain so it at least looked more classic and in line with the OT. Somehow I was more impressed with the blurry leaked trailer from some months back.
Thargrim wrote: Hope that music isn't from the show, sounds pretty generic, like some ordinary action thriller. I kinda wish they had shot it on film or did a grain so it at least looked more classic and in line with the OT. Somehow I was more impressed with the blurry leaked trailer from some months back.
Well based on their new "three eRas" approach where they stitch together the most popular content(TCW show; OT films & R1; probably this & potentially RoS) with the more...divisive material(Prequels; Solo; first two Sequels and that crappy Resistance cartoon, respectively), it's not meant to evoke the OT so much as it's meant to feed the Sequel era.
Which, combined with the new trailer, makes me a smidge apprehensive this is going to be "kill the past" round two, with the titular character and his band going around carving up OT-era remnants like a hot knife through butter until eventually the First Order show up and get made to look superior by comparison.
Still, no point in anticipating garbage based on speculation, Favreau and Filoni are usually safe bets, overall I'm still very interested to see what we get out of this.
I've spent the past 10 minutes gushing about this and other associated Disney Wars announcements to my wife and praising her decision to get Disney Life.
My big question is whether anyone has any clue as to whether Disney Life is going to turn into Disney+ when it launches or whatever. Need to make sure that I'm not getting stiffed on these shows, because it looks like Disney is doing good magic.
You might have a looong wait as the UK falls into the “other” category for the roll out so up to 2 years apparently. Seems there Sky deal may be the problem but nobody knows because so far Disney have not had the balls to say if/when the uk release is.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Trailer looks cool. Loving the IG-88 (if that's him ..er it). I'll probably be subscribing as soon it's available in the UK (whenever that is).
If that's not IG-88 then there needs to be an episode where IG-88 shows up and sues for copyright infringement.
Ming-Na Wen has been cast in an undisclosed role probably for season 2 but they might fit her in briefly in season 1 as an introduction to the character.
Yeah, uhm, mildly tragic isn't it. Hope the show doesn't also feature Kssob and Ragned.
As well as the show looking pretty good, it should be good for those who play toys in the SW universe with a couple of new things for X-Wing and Legion (the AT-ST has already been announced as a lego kit).
I don't see the problem with it being a different droid. Given the IG-88 was an assassin droid, it sort of makes sense that related droids would wind up in similar lines of work.
Even assuming that IG-88's original origin story is gone now, he's certainly not a unique droid, given the junk copies of him that show up in the movies on Tatooine and Cloud City.
They show up in various of the cartoons as well. I just find it entertaining that they decided to do an assassin droid, have it identical but then decide its not IG 88. If they didn't want to include it, then why not just make up something new? If they wanted to use that body then why not just make it one of the IG 88s?
No idea to be honest, trying to keep track of what is and is not canon nowadays gives me a head ache. Good news if true though as then we never have to hear about the 'droid revolution' ever again.
Though of course they could just write them back in whenever someone decides they want to!
insaniak wrote: I don't see the problem with it being a different droid.
There isn't one. I just had it in my head for some reason that it was meant to be IG-88, and I thought that was cool.
That it isn't is no issue, and has been said, assassin droids (even IG models) aren't new to SW. A bunch of them showed up in Clone Wars.
In all honesty, having it not be IG-88 is perhaps a blessing in disguise. I'm always wary of things that shrink the universe, with two few new characters, and many old characters always being related to one another or crossing paths before and so on. So this being a new character is perhaps for the best.
It’s set 5 years after RotJ. I don’t expect the Mandalorian to be Boba Fett in fact I kind of hope they never reveal his name or much detail about him or take the helmet off.
ingtaer wrote: No idea to be honest, trying to keep track of what is and is not canon nowadays gives me a head ache. Good news if true though as then we never have to hear about the 'droid revolution' ever again.
Though of course they could just write them back in whenever someone decides they want to!
oh aye, could be a back up copy of 88 lurking in a computer somewhere, waiting
and of course free-willed droids are a rather dangerous threat to meatbags, hence them largely being outlawed regardless of whoever is in power at any given period
DaveC wrote: It’s set 5 years after RotJ. I don’t expect the Mandalorian to be Boba Fett in fact I kind of hope they never reveal his name or much detail about him or take the helmet off.
The timing, the setting and even the callback of Boba's OG weapon just SCREAMS nostalgia. I can get behind them doing something new with a pinch of nostalgia, but if the show's protagonist is "Not-Boba-Fett" and his side kick is "Not-IG-88", why not just make them Boba & 88? It just seems off to make them SOOOOOO close to those characters without actually being them.
Having him be Boba automatically adds a lot of clone wars baggage to a character and I imagine the showrunners want to keep their options open. Given how the characters turned out in Clone Wars I think Filoni prefers to have original characters anyway, it growing the universe instead of shrinking it is a noted side-benefit.
Compare to the Thrawn books and how constrained the character is because they've established him doing stuff in other media.
Another reason IG-11 isn't IG-88 could be that they plan to kill him off.
Captain Joystick wrote: Having him be Boba automatically adds a lot of clone wars baggage to a character and I imagine the showrunners want to keep their options open. Given how the characters turned out in Clone Wars I think Filoni prefers to have original characters anyway, it growing the universe instead of shrinking it is a noted side-benefit.
I don't necessarily think him being Boba would bring any Clone Wars "baggage". After all, it's been decades since then and a lot has happened. So while it's connected, Boba can be his own person and tie in more to the OrigTrig, which is clearly what they are going with.
My "gripe", if you can call it that, is that why would they make him SOOOOO similar to Boba Fett if they wanted to do something new. Just do a fresh new character or do Boba Fett. But it clearly looks like they WANT him to be Boba Fett conceptually without being Boba Fett to keep their "options open". It's an obvious "have their cake and eat it too" situation that I feel dilutes the new character.
I like the tone and asthetics but, beyond that, it really showed us nothing. It could easily still be complete gak ala TLJ which also had a promising trailer.
Captain Joystick wrote: Having him be Boba automatically adds a lot of clone wars baggage to a character and I imagine the showrunners want to keep their options open. Given how the characters turned out in Clone Wars I think Filoni prefers to have original characters anyway, it growing the universe instead of shrinking it is a noted side-benefit.
I don't necessarily think him being Boba would bring any Clone Wars "baggage". After all, it's been decades since then and a lot has happened. So while it's connected, Boba can be his own person and tie in more to the OrigTrig, which is clearly what they are going with.
My "gripe", if you can call it that, is that why would they make him SOOOOO similar to Boba Fett if they wanted to do something new. Just do a fresh new character or do Boba Fett. But it clearly looks like they WANT him to be Boba Fett conceptually without being Boba Fett to keep their "options open". It's an obvious "have their cake and eat it too" situation that I feel dilutes the new character.
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We don't really know much about the story. but one thing to remember is that Boba Fett was decidedly NOT a Mandalorian. So if this series is going to be less about a bounty hunter and more about the culture and ideals of the madalorians then it will make a bit more sense.
balmong7 wrote: We don't really know much about the story. but one thing to remember is that Boba Fett was decidedly NOT a Mandalorian. So if this series is going to be less about a bounty hunter and more about the culture and ideals of the madalorians then it will make a bit more sense.
For what it's worth, that single line of dialogue has so much baggage both in and out of universe it could mean anything for anyone hearing it.
I don't think it's unfair to presume, from what we've seen, that this guy is probably going to be doing a lot of Boba Fettesque stuff.
My "gripe", if you can call it that, is that why would they make him SOOOOO similar to Boba Fett if they wanted to do something new. Just do a fresh new character or do Boba Fett. But it clearly looks like they WANT him to be Boba Fett conceptually without being Boba Fett to keep their "options open". It's an obvious "have their cake and eat it too" situation that I feel dilutes the new character.
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Boba Fett's main accomplishments were that time he tailed a ship, and that time he got pushed into a Sarlacc pit by a blind guy.
This guy appears to actually be a competent bounty hunter...
My "gripe", if you can call it that, is that why would they make him SOOOOO similar to Boba Fett if they wanted to do something new. Just do a fresh new character or do Boba Fett. But it clearly looks like they WANT him to be Boba Fett conceptually without being Boba Fett to keep their "options open". It's an obvious "have their cake and eat it too" situation that I feel dilutes the new character.
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Boba Fett's main accomplishments were that time he tailed a ship, and that time he got pushed into a Sarlacc pit by a blind guy.
This guy appears to actually be a competent bounty hunter...
But that's the point. This could have been an opportunity to add competent adventures to Fett's legacy. Or to just make it about a very different Bounty Hunter that isn't a conceptual copy-cat of Boba-Fett.
But instead, we are getting an (admittedly cool) replica of Boba Fett.
I'm very much looking forward to this show, but I just think they could have edged it one way or the other.
Silly boomers and GenXers (like me!)... complaining about Boba Fett's wasted potential is soooo 1980s/90s and you might as well try to restart the VHS vs Betamax format wars again. The new hotness of wasted potential (ok.. well... the most wasted potential given that IMO none of the characters have been properly developed) for this trilogy and generation is Captain Phasma. I really wish they had developed her into something more than an asthetically pleasing butt of jokes.
I'm assuming this guy is a true Mandalorian warrior who had his wife and child killed (maybe that is them in the trailer in the water) and is adrift on his own, ending up bounty hunting to pay the bills as he hunts down the guy who killed them (probably the guy in the black armor). It's an old cliche, but one that continues to work.
If anything, if this guy is a real dyed in the wool Mandalorian warrior that just happens to have taken up bounty hunting on a journey to revenge, Boba Fett is in effect a poor copy-cat of HIM, especially if now all of his EU exploits are non-canon, because without all the crazy lengths the fiction took him to, nothing makes him a Mandalorian except his being a clone of one.
If anything , with everything EU being moved to legends in relation to the current material, wouldn't Fett just be dying in a Sarlaac at this point?
I feel like this is a lot of extrapolation based on not a lot of info. IMO it doesn't matter how he stacks up against Fett in a trailer, it matters how the show comes together (or doesn't) as a whole.
I feel like the star wars stories are decent enough. I liked rogue one and didn't hear much bad about solo. I don't think they can salvage the new trilogy. On the plus side one bad star wars story won't effect things like the last Jedi did for the new trilogy because they are one off movies rather than a trilogy. Also ever since the original trilogy Jedi just got Mary sue and star wars stories seem to leave them a healthy distance away from them.
Gotta agree with boba fett being one of the most over-hyped characters of all time though. I honestly think it's the fact he looks cool and has a jetpack. There's not really anything else to like about him in the movies.
Whelp... that trailer sold Disney+ subscriber to me. Wow...
AegisGrimm wrote: I'm assuming this guy is a true Mandalorian warrior who had his wife and child killed (maybe that is them in the trailer in the water) and is adrift on his own, ending up bounty hunting to pay the bills as he hunts down the guy who killed them (probably the guy in the black armor). It's an old cliche, but one that continues to work.
If anything, if this guy is a real dyed in the wool Mandalorian warrior that just happens to have taken up bounty hunting on a journey to revenge, Boba Fett is in effect a poor copy-cat of HIM, especially if now all of his EU exploits are non-canon, because without all the crazy lengths the fiction took him to, nothing makes him a Mandalorian except his being a clone of one.
If anything , with everything EU being moved to legends in relation to the current material, wouldn't Fett just be dying in a Sarlaac at this point?
Nah... Fett in the EU fought his way out of the Sarlaac... no reason why they couldn't do it here.
Also, I'm pretty sure Fett was the last of the Mandalorian... right(at least in the EU)?
In the EU he was a Mandalorian, and in the later EU novels winds up as the 'ruler' of Mandalore.
Pretty much all of the EU Mandalorian stuff went straight out the window during the Clone Wars cartoon run (leading to the Kathy Traviss' rather well-publicised dummy spit and exit) and the current cannon is that Jango claimed to be Mandalorian, but the Mandalorian government disagrees.
Fett, being a clone of Jango and 'born' on Kamino, would be of even more dubious citizenship.
insaniak wrote: In the EU he was a Mandalorian, and in the later EU novels winds up as the 'ruler' of Mandalore.
None of that matters now. Disney cast the EU aside when they took over. The only things that still counted were the movies, Clone Wars and... maybe something else. It's slipped my mind.
To be fair, I feel like it can be said that Disney just seems to carry over that Boba is a Mando. They've never said it, but the Mandos still wear armor based on his, operate as mercenaries and bounty hunters, and even have a TV show that might as well be named "The Not Boba Fett Show."
I actually feel comfortable saying "Boba Fett is a Mandalorian" until Disney comes out and contradicts that because they just seem to operate on the assumption that these two things are one and the same, in-universe technicalities be damned.
LordofHats wrote: To be fair, I feel like it can be said that Disney just seems to carry over that Boba is a Mando. They've never said it, but the Mandos still wear armor based on his, operate as mercenaries and bounty hunters, and even have a TV show that might as well be named "The Not Boba Fett Show."
You have that backwards. The whole thing with Boba and Jango is that they claim to be Mandalorian, but aren't. So other Mandos wear armour based on Boba's design because Boba (and Jango before him) is wearing Mandalorian armour.
You have that backwards. The whole thing with Boba and Jango is that they claim to be Mandalorian, but aren't. So other Mandos wear armor based on Boba's design because Boba (and Jango before him) is wearing Mandalorian armour.
That the Mandalorian government says Jango wasn't a Mandalorian is easily handwaved as Satine's government not wanting to be associated with the guy who tried to kill a sitting Senator. Unless Disney actually comes out and says "They're not Mandalorians, they just wear Mando armor" which to my knowledge they have not, I feel like it's safe to keep them in the camp of being Mandalorians.
The Mandalorians are literally a race of Boba Fetts. That's the whole reason they came to exist.
Fett's status as a "true" Mando is actually irrelevant to my point. To the wider SW audience, both Jango and Boba are Mandos as are all who wear that style of armour.
All this debate about EU and stuff that has been later established in canon doesn't matter. Anyone in that armour is going to draw comparisons to the Fett's. Period.
Disney should know this. So why would they develop a show about a Mando Bounty Hunter that uses Boba's original appearance proned rifle, is set around the time Boba could have escaped the Sarlacc, teams up with a IG-88 look-alike and that show NOT be about Boba Fett?
I'd certainly enjoy if the Mango was Boba, but I'd also enjoy if he WASN'T Boba. But what it look's like we are getting is Schrödinger's Fett: a character that is and isn't Boba at the same time.
But what it look's like we are getting is Schrödinger's Fett: a character that is and isn't Boba at the same time.
"Me and my wife are Boba Fett!"
But indeed, there is no logical necessity in any of this stuff, only narrative necessity. There is a logic in keeping things vague and seemingly indeterminate, in the sense that it allows the writers/developers to just do whatever they want, since then anything could be "explained" or "hand-waved" in or away. So, anything deemed "narratively necessary" is permissible and possible. Unfortunately, that often doesn't make for terribly interesting things under any sort of scrutiny. Which is the exact sort of scrutiny people are prone to when the narrative does not suffice...
Galef wrote: Fett's status as a "true" Mando is actually irrelevant to my point. To the wider SW audience, both Jango and Boba are Mandos as are all who wear that style of armour.
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I don't consider myself one of the unwashed masses of casual Star Wars fans and probably have more of an encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise (at least until roughly the second season of the clone wars cartoon) than 98 out of 100 people you'd randomly meet on the street and yet I didn't know there was any question as to whether Fett was a "true" mando or not at least according to the abandoned old standards set forth in the Dark Horse comics and Traviss novels until reading this thread. For all intents and purposes, the Fetts are the prototypical mandalorians to the vast majority of people who even have any concept of what universe the word refers to.
Galef wrote: Fett's status as a "true" Mando is actually irrelevant to my point. To the wider SW audience, both Jango and Boba are Mandos as are all who wear that style of armour. -
I don't consider myself one of the unwashed masses of casual Star Wars fans and probably have more of an encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise (at least until roughly the second season of the clone wars cartoon) than 98 out of 100 people you'd randomly meet on the street and yet I didn't know there was any question as to whether Fett was a "true" mando or not at least according to the abandoned old standards set forth in the Dark Horse comics and Traviss novels until reading this thread. For all intents and purposes, the Fetts are the prototypical mandalorians to the vast majority of people who even have any concept of what universe the word refers to.
Right, so by making a story about a Mando that isn't Boba, you create confusion for the broader audience.
I get that leaving it ambiguous, the writers have more freedom, and that's great. But as I said before, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. It seems they want the freedom to do what they want, and apparently what they want is to make a story with Boba Fett as the main protagonist. So why don't they just do that?
Galef wrote: Right, so by making a story about a Mando that isn't Boba, you create confusion for the broader audience.
I get that leaving it ambiguous, the writers have more freedom, and that's great. But as I said before, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. It seems they want the freedom to do what they want, and apparently what they want is to make a story with Boba Fett as the main protagonist. So why don't they just do that?
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That's not at all what I was saying btw. I was simply referring to Fett's status as a mando to the vast majority of people who have any knowledge of the word. I don't think there will be much confusion personally beyond the premiere given that we already had Jango in the prequels. All it takes is a little bit of background exposition to explain to casual fans what the word means in the first episode. I actually prefer that they introduce a new character as another Mandalorian than drag up Boba's half digested corpse to be reanimated for the series (since the old EU stories of him escaping are abandoned leaving him in canon still stewing in the Sarlacc pit). I like that he is, at least as this point, mysterious.
Galef wrote: Right, so by making a story about a Mando that isn't Boba, you create confusion for the broader audience.
I get that leaving it ambiguous, the writers have more freedom, and that's great. But as I said before, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. It seems they want the freedom to do what they want, and apparently what they want is to make a story with Boba Fett as the main protagonist. So why don't they just do that?
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That's not at all what I was saying btw. I was simply referring to Fett's status as a mando to the vast majority of people who have any knowledge of the word. I don't think there will be much confusion personally beyond the premiere given that we already had Jango in the prequels. All it takes is a little bit of background exposition to explain to casual fans what the word means in the first episode. I actually prefer that they introduce a new character as another Mandalorian than drag up Boba's half digested corpse to be reanimated for the series (since the old EU stories of him escaping are abandoned leaving him in canon still stewing in the Sarlacc pit). I like that he is, at least as this point, mysterious.
I think you and I are talking about different things, and aren't necessarily disagreeing.
My issue is that this mysterious character is so friggin close to Boba Fett in concept so far, that he just should have been Boba Fett. Or they should have gone the opposite route and made the protagonist a NON-Mando Bounty Hunter in cool NON-Mando armour that was mysterious. Ya know, something a tiny bit more original. One way or the other would have been great. But by making him "Not-Boba", he just looks like a rip-off, regardless of how cool and mysterious they might make him
Stop trying to make Fett happen. Fett's not going to happen.
Star Wars is a universe full of faceless goons who wear identical armor that determines their entire purpose and personality. Making a not-Boba Mando is speaking the Star Wars language (Aurabesh?). One suspects that the entire point of such identity-hiding armor is to create a mystique about an entire group based on the gestalt reputations of their most famous members.
Also, in universe it works for another reason: there are hundreds of trillions to quadrillion so of humans in the SW Galaxy and quintillions of droids. Extrapolating from a bell curve, there's like, hundreds of dudes who all dress the same way and talk the same way for their similar bounty hunting gigs. They might not even be doing it out of homage to the famous Boba Fett, but out of sheer coincidence. Somewhere, the bounty hunter Borba Fretch keeps running into people he's never met who are glad to see he "crawled back out", whatever that means.
That's kinda my point. If Disney isn't going to make a Fett story, why they heck are they trying so hard to make a "Fett" story? From what we've seen so far, you could 100% swap the Mandalorian protagonist with Boba Fett and nothing would be different. They are CONCEPTUALLY INDENTICAL. So why are they trying to not make it Fett, while at the same time making him basically Fett.
That's kinda my point. If Disney isn't going to make a Fett story, why they heck are they trying so hard to make a "Fett" story?
From what we've seen so far, you could 100% swap the Mandalorian protagonist with Boba Fett and nothing would be different. They are CONCEPTUALLY INDENTICAL. So why are they trying to not make it Fett, while at the same time making him basically Fett.
Like I said, it Schrödinger's Fett
To bank on the appeal of the aesthetic, nostalgia and collective memory of Fett, without being beholden to the existent character?
In other words, to tell a sort of Fett story, but without the "complication" of Fett's actual canonical elements?
Galef wrote: My issue is that this mysterious character is so friggin close to Boba Fett in concept so far, that he just should have been Boba Fett.
Or they should have gone the opposite route and made the protagonist a NON-Mando Bounty Hunter in cool NON-Mando armour that was mysterious. Ya know, something a tiny bit more original.
One way or the other would have been great. But by making him "Not-Boba", he just looks like a rip-off, regardless of how cool and mysterious they might make him
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I can see your point even if it's not entirely in agreement with my own. I'd have been just as fine with a non-bounty hunter mando (maybe a bouncer/enforcer, merc, smuggler, whatever) but I don't know if that's different enough for you personally. The nameless mando spaghetti western gunslinger thing for me is key and I love the idea of it. We'll see how it actually works out and I'm waiting until the season is over and the reviews are out before giving disney any money. They lost the benefit of the doubt with TLJ and it's aftermath (although they were admittedly on thin ice with me after abandoning the EU and then coming out with TFA as a poor copy of ANH).
I can see your point even if it's not entirely in agreement with my own. I'd have been just as fine with a non-bounty hunter mando (maybe a bouncer/enforcer, merc, smuggler, whatever) but I don't know if that's different enough for you personally. The nameless mando spaghetti western gunslinger thing for me is key and I love the idea of it.
That's fair. And don't get me wrong, this look really cool. I'm just torn between my desire to A) see more Boba Fett and B) wanting to see something new. Rather that kill both birds with the same show, I feel like I'll be constantly reminded that the show is neither of those things
We'll see how it actually works out and I'm waiting until the season is over and the reviews are out before giving disney any money. They lost the benefit of the doubt with TLJ and it's aftermath (although they were admittedly on thin ice with me after abandoning the EU and then coming out with TFA as a poor copy of ANH).
That might be a while. From what I've heard, this show is going to "air" like traditional shows. i.e 1 episode per week, rather than the whole season dropping at once.
I'm willing to wait. After seeing almost all of the MCU movies starting with Iron Man on opening weekend, I chose not to see Endgame and I had, in a way, been waiting for that for over a decade. I'm equal parts bitter and patient on top of being not particularly adverse to spoilers.
To bank on the appeal of the aesthetic, nostalgia and collective memory of Fett, without being beholden to the existent character?
In other words, to tell a sort of Fett story, but without the "complication" of Fett's actual canonical elements?
And also possibly to not be stuck with a 58-year-old actor in the lead role.
Honestly, 'confusing' the character with Fett might have been more of the thing before the Clone Wars and Rebels, but Mandos as mercs and bounty hunters are a pretty well-established thing by this point, and the fact that his armour is painted differently, and its a different bloke inside the helmet is more than sufficient to sell it as a new character.
To bank on the appeal of the aesthetic, nostalgia and collective memory of Fett, without being beholden to the existent character?
In other words, to tell a sort of Fett story, but without the "complication" of Fett's actual canonical elements?
And also possibly to not be stuck with a 58-year-old actor in the lead role.
Honestly, 'confusing' the character with Fett might have been more of the thing before the Clone Wars and Rebels, but Mandos as mercs and bounty hunters are a pretty well-established thing by this point, and the fact that his armour is painted differently, and its a different bloke inside the helmet is more than sufficient to sell it as a new character.
Not to a general audience. A good chunk of the SW audience (to say nothing of the general audience) cares nothing for books, cartoons and games.
For those folks Boba (well and 5 pointless minutes of Dad Fett) is the only point of reference for this character.
Not to a general audience. A good chunk of the SW audience (to say nothing of the general audience) cares nothing for books, cartoons and games.
For those folks Boba (well and 5 pointless minutes of Dad Fett) is the only point of reference for this character.
For those folks, Boba Fett is a guy who appears on-screen for about 5 minutes in total over three films, and never actually does anything noteworthy... so they're unlikely to be attached enough to care whether or not this new guy is the same character.
Not really. My 'argument' was that having this character not be Boba wasn't going to be particularly confusing. Whether that's because people are familiar enough with the background to know that Boba isn't the only Mando bounty hunter, or because people don't particularly care whether or not it's the same character ultimately makes little difference.
Not to mention that for all this talk of 'character', we actually know nothing about this new chap at all beyond what he looks like, and that he doesn't mess around when it comes to a bar-room brawl. He could be just like Boba, a largely silent professional who's hard to read and keeps to himself, he could be a total bastard who relishes his dastardly work, or he could be a wise-cracking heart of gold Mal-Reynolds-In-Armour for all we know.
Not that that latter is particularly likely, but the point is, beyond the look we know absolutely nothing about this guy, and Disney's trailers across Marvel and SW are so good these days at fooling (or outright lying to) audiences to get them thinking one thing when the reality is totally different. Obviously at this point, they kind of want us to be drawing parallels with Fett (or rather, the idea of Fett), but I think it's entirely likely that they're only doing that so the reality of it ends up a surprise.
Given that they've cast someone that was recently popular in GoT, the idea that he never speaks or takes the helmet off is a pretty remote one. Why not just let the stuntman play the role all the time if that's the case?
I know a lot of people who were/are expecting to boot up episode 1 of this show and have it be "The Boba Fett show". So it will be interesting to see the reactions when it drops. Most of my friends will be watching trailers and things pretty heavily so as soon as one says the name of the character and it's not Boba, they won't care and will watch the show anyway. But I'm curious what the general reaction is going to be from people that don't watch the trailers/follow the news and are expecting boba fett.
The problem is, Boba Fett is not a Mando because then by that, every single Republic Clone trooper was a Mandolorian. Cloning Han Solo doesn't automatically make the clone a Corellian.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It's covered Clone Wars, I think. Jango spent time on Concord Dawn - but was not a Mandalorian. Indeed, he's explicitly said not to be.
IIRC, the part where that gets complicated...
Spoiler:
is the fact that the guy arguing this case about Jango Fett is arguing the point that all Mandalorians (at the time of him speaking) are reformed and only want to cooperate peacefully and prosperously with the rest of the galaxy - an argument that also also excludes Deathwatch, a group of Mandalorian terrorists who dress and fight a lot like Jango Fett. He's also revealed to be the head of a black market ring.
Now, to be clear: Lucas and Lucasfilm clarified that Jango and by extension, Boba, were not actual Mandalorians, though they may claim to be - but as it stands the only time that message was delivered in universe it came from a liar who was employing the no true Scotsman fallacy. And its frustrating to a lot of people (myself included) since a lot of what people like about the Mandalorians comes from lore that was largely extrapolated from Boba Fett.
Our guy is a Mandalorian, and we definitely explore the culture of the Mandalorian," Favreau told Entertainment Weekly of his live-action series.
"Boba Fett is a clone, according to Attack of the Clones, and by asking [creator George Lucas], he would say Boba Fett is not Mandalorian, not born on Mandalore. He's more of a person indoctrinated into it, into the way of life, and gets a hold of the armor," Filoni added.
The team behind the new series went on to highlight some of the Mandalorian's contrasting attributes in comparison to Boba Fett, identifying Pascal's protagonist as more of a dark hero who is working in a ruthless time.
"Our guy is operating in a much more unforgiving landscape," Favreau revealed. "A place where survival is difficult enough, let alone flourishing in that atmosphere and the politics have dissolved. It's 'might is right.' And how does somebody earn a living when there's no structure to society anymore and everything is collapsing in on itself? How do you work your way through the world?
"Ultimately he wants to do the right thing," Pascal elaborated. "But his duties could very much be in conflict with his destiny and doing the right thing has many faces. It can be a very windy road."
So he's definitely not Boba then.
The Mandolorian series may touch on the start of the First Order.
New image of the Mandalorian fighting 2 Trandoshans. Ive seen it mentioned that it looks like someone posed some action figures for the image and now I cant unsee it.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:Which OT character established the Trandoshans, again? The lizard bounty hunter guy?
Looks to me more like the Mando is fighting a couple of Star Trek aliens.
Bosk always looked like a Gorn, just better dressed.
It does look like these guys are made with heavy prosthetic makeup instead dof a rubber mask though - lefty has more chin than Bosk did but besides that the core Trandoshan features are the same.
The thing that's putting people off I think is the lack of eyes, which I guess they'll probably be adding in digitally.
If the redesign made them look better or took advantage of modern technology to achieve something that couldn't be done 40 years ago, then that would be understandable.
But it's a step backwards in design. These guys look far more like humans with a texture than the alien-looking Bossk. It would be like Star Trek giving us Klingons that were just guys in brown makeup again.
However, I'm starting to think these are more like Jabba's skiff-drivers than Bossk.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If the redesign made them look better or took advantage of modern technology to achieve something that couldn't be done 40 years ago, then that would be understandable.
But it's a step backwards in design. These guys look far more like humans with a texture than the alien-looking Bossk. It would be like Star Trek giving us Klingons that were just guys in brown makeup again.
However, I'm starting to think these are more like Jabba's skiff-drivers than Bossk.
Yeah, but they'd need these guys to do a lot more than stand around for a few seconds in a single scene. Static masks and obvious forearm sleeves aren't going to cut it. A slight redesign using makeup combined with CGI enhancements *would* be a big step forward, and allow the kind of action, expression, and numbers they'd need. And while I know the show has a massive budget, it would be a lot cheaper than going full CGI.
Or maybe they're a totally different alien, sure. I just think some tweaks would be pretty reasonable after four decades.
Our guy is a Mandalorian, and we definitely explore the culture of the Mandalorian," Favreau told Entertainment Weekly of his live-action series.
"Boba Fett is a clone, according to Attack of the Clones, and by asking [creator George Lucas], he would say Boba Fett is not Mandalorian, not born on Mandalore. He's more of a person indoctrinated into it, into the way of life, and gets a hold of the armor," Filoni added.."
This is kind of a weird thing to say. Especially since various versions of the Mandalorian background are pretty explicit about them adopting outsiders AS Mandalorians... provided they prove themselves worthy.
That's the biggest element of the 'culture' in Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2.
Its even weirder when you consider the Clone Wars cartoon has the armored Mandalorians rejecting Mandalore's (the planet) pacifist culture. They're creating a weird throwback subculture that most 'born on Mandalore' would reject out of hand as terrorist scumbags, cowardly ones targeting pacifist civilians that pose no threat.
Its also a weird and regrettable take considering current identity politics. The idea that someone can't become a 'real' member of an adopted culture is a pretty extreme one.
Setting-wise, its a confusing mess of retcons and different attributes by different authors, one which resists a definitive answer.
They look like they could easily be Trandosians. Let's not start that bs from Star Trek, where if it doesn't look exactly like the crummy makeup and rubber from the 70s it's not the same thing.
Not going to argue about it so don't at me; if a thing is fundamentally different, it's not the same thing, unless you explain it in the setting and in a plausible way.
Trandoshans have an established physical appearance, one that has seen variations before in the cartoons(so, much more recently than ESB) which nonetheless kept the basic parts of the concept intact. TCW had fat Transdoshans. Rebels had short Trandoshans. They still looked like Trandoshans, because despite not looking exactly like Bossk, they did retain the physical characteristics that made Bossk different from humans.
These "Trandoshans" don't do that. The feet, lower legs, and forearms are too small. They look like they have toes, not claws. They don't have a pronounced snout.
Could they be planning to "fix" them with CGI? They could, and I hope they do, but that seems like the sort of thing you might mention when releasing promotional images.
LordofHats wrote: They look like they could easily be Trandosians. Let's not start that bs from Star Trek, where if it doesn't look exactly like the crummy makeup and rubber from the 70s it's not the same thing.
The vast majority of viewers won't care about some design tweaks for practicality and function. The rest...are how they are, and it'd be silly to invest in full CGI or a whole series of fully animatronic masks and arms just to keep them satisfied.
Besides, the ones pictured are part of a guardian caste within the Trandosian society that displays some slight physical differences.
Yodhrin wrote: These "Trandoshans" don't do that. The feet, lower legs, and forearms are too small. They look like they have toes, not claws. They don't have a pronounced snout.
Looking at it again... Do they look like they have five fingers to you? Maybe they really aren't Trandoshans?
LordofHats wrote: They look like they could easily be Trandosians. Let's not start that bs from Star Trek, where if it doesn't look exactly like the crummy makeup and rubber from the 70s it's not the same thing.
The vast majority of viewers won't care about some design tweaks for practicality and function. The rest...are how they are, and it'd be silly to invest in full CGI or a whole series of fully animatronic masks and arms just to keep them satisfied.
Besides, the ones pictured are part of a guardian caste within the Trandosian society that displays some slight physical differences.
Is that canon?
Sorry if this comes across as a Richard Post, it’s not meant to be.
Just trying to figure out if I’ve missed stuff (I’ve been somewhat distracted of late). Wouldn’t be the first time!
LordofHats wrote: They look like they could easily be Trandosians. Let's not start that bs from Star Trek, where if it doesn't look exactly like the crummy makeup and rubber from the 70s it's not the same thing.
The vast majority of viewers won't care about some design tweaks for practicality and function. The rest...are how they are, and it'd be silly to invest in full CGI or a whole series of fully animatronic masks and arms just to keep them satisfied.
Besides, the ones pictured are part of a guardian caste within the Trandosian society that displays some slight physical differences.
Is that canon?
Sorry if this comes across as a Richard Post, it’s not meant to be.
Just trying to figure out if I’ve missed stuff (I’ve been somewhat distracted of late). Wouldn’t be the first time!
I'll answer your question with a question -- if it was canon, would it make folks feel better about shorter forearms?
Or its a engineered intertubes buzz 'error', duly frothed over for free publicity, still could be worse could be Batwoman...(the highly engineered trigger trailers, im sure the show will be a perfectly average by the playbook cw effort)
LordofHats wrote: They look like they could easily be Trandosians. Let's not start that bs from Star Trek, where if it doesn't look exactly like the crummy makeup and rubber from the 70s it's not the same thing.
The vast majority of viewers won't care about some design tweaks for practicality and function. The rest...are how they are, and it'd be silly to invest in full CGI or a whole series of fully animatronic masks and arms just to keep them satisfied.
Besides, the ones pictured are part of a guardian caste within the Trandosian society that displays some slight physical differences.
Resorting to "the vast majority of people don't have any standards" is a pretty sad move just to try and make yourself look better than people who actually care for a setting and want to see it realised well.
gorgon wrote: ... and it'd be silly to invest in full CGI or a whole series of fully animatronic masks and arms just to keep them satisfied. .
There's a couple of issues there. For one, it's not 'silly' for a special-effects oriented production to invest in effects to make things look like their previous representations.
But if, for whatever reason, they don't want to make that investment, they can keep everyone happy by just, you know, not having them be Trandoshans...
They go to the effort of making their new IG character look like an IG assassin droid, but somehow can't get Trandoshans to look like Trandoshans, despite numerous other appearances in canon besides ESB?
) favour? Speed, manouverability? How to resist making the ship a Get Out Of Trouble Free card for the writers? Will we see the ship being upgraded as the story unfolds?
