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Hello,

I posted a while ago regarding an Ork army I was converting from 2nd to 4th edition but mucked up the formatting, so the whole post went awry. Never mind. I've been lurking for a while (and have finished my Ork army) and now am almost finished the 2nd to 4th ed conversion of my Marine army. The basic background is as follows:

==

Legio Astartis Chapter 976 - The Nightwings

A recently founded Chapter, the Nightwing's true history is known by only three men: the Chapter Master, the Fabricator General of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and, of course, The Emperor of Mankind. The following are rumours ...

Based on the freezing desert world of Ares Prime, the Nightwings geneseed is derived from the legendary Iron Hands. The founding of the Nightwings was initiated by direct Imperial Edict to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Their remit: to create a chapter for whom technology would no longer be a Dark Art.

These "Scions of Mars" have made war on countless alien-infested worlds, rescuing ancient Human technology and capturing, even reverse engineering, Xeno-tech.

Of course, such close ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus have seen the Nightwings ostracised by other Chapters and Imperial Organisations. They "Stand Alone" in the Galaxy knowing that their wisdom, determination and technology will, in the end, bring vast benefits to the Imperium and rid Humanity of the Xeno threat.

==

I realise there are one or two chapters similar to this already discussed on these boards (the Iron Lions is one, I think). Any questions, comments and criticism would be useful.

Regards,
Colin

I dunno about We Stand Alone - you might have a few fun modeling opportunitiesd with allies as Daemon Hunter/Witch Hunter rules might work pretty well to represent a Martian delegation or the like. Scions is more of a "look cool" doctrine - deploying your +1 W Techmarine between two Vindicators or three Dreadnoughts notwithstanding, Terminator Armour on Sergeants does nothing.* The fluff is solid enough, though if my memory serves me Nightwing was the first Robin after he got too old for those green shorts.

* I'm 90% sure you can't give the Sergeant the heavy weapon. If you could, it might almost be worthwhile since Termies count Heavy as Assault, making your firepower units somewhat mobile.

nice fluff. I agree with wight widow about the we satnd alone but disagree with the scions of mars as thats a cool doctrine that fits well with your fluff.

Thanks for the replies so far.

I liked the Daemon/Witch-hunter idea but I chose the "Stand Alone" drawback because

a) This just seemed to be the least hurtful drawback available.
b) I'm stuck for cash at the moment and can't lay hands on the appropriate Codex or miniatures (my 3 year old son is very expensive!)

My background idea comes from watching my son at play. He seems to have a knack for the technology I had to spend a long time learning. He's only 3 but he can handle a playstation controller, several video games and even a web browser (he can't type but he knows various web addresses). He even painted his first space marine two days ago!

So I wanted a Chapter that was "born" to technology, would have it "in their blood" so to speak, instead of treating technology as black magic. Hence the Nightwings background.

I've had a couple of other ideas regarding the Chapter's training and tactics. Forgive me if some of this is in the wrong forum.

1) I've thought about taking an upgraded techmarine as force commander, then three Rhino mounted techmarines with gun servitors as fast-moving forward firebases. Even if the Rhinos get wrecked, they still have cover to shoot from and can block LOS to the rear. Is this valid/workable?
2) The recruits get dropped/teleported into a vast industrial wasteland (like the game zone in the Running Man movie) with no gear, armour or weapons. They have to reach an extraction point within a certain time limit, making weapons/armour/gear from whatever's available, facing up to whatever predators/hostiles are out there. Any recruits who make it get promoted to the Scout company, anyone left behind gets eaten!

Any further ideas will be gratefully received.

Colin

I checked my Codex after clicking on this thread again. (slightly OT for this thread, as Joe notes, but fluff is best when it works on the table IMHO) Page 34 Codex: Space Marines, under the Scouts option, states that "Any models (including the Sergeant) may replace..." their bolt pistol with one of several options. The next sentence uses the words "Up to one model," implicitly including the Sergeant. The entries for Tactical Squads and Devastator Squads draw a distinction between "Sergeant" and "Space Marine." So, with Scions of Mars, while it might be a bit sketchy to have a Cyclone-armed Termie leading a tac squad, according to RAW, with scions you can give the Sergeant of a Scouts squad Termie armour and the squad heavy weapon, allowing them to move and fire in just about any circumstance. The Scout Sarge also pays only 13 points for his TH - so with a Cyclone missile launcher he's 51 points, as opposed to a 65 point Termie with power fist, storm bolter and Cyclone - only an extra two points really. Plus he'd get infiltrate and move through cover, skills unavailable to his less-nimble teleporting Brethren. The mixed armour save rules somewhat negate the protective advantages of Terminator armour, but that'd be the way to field Tactical Dreadnought Armour as a Tactical Dreadnought IMHO - pretty much as a literal mini-dreadnought to support a light squad. Would also fit somewhat with fluff idea 2) - the Termie sergeant is the guy who picked them up off the "game zone," the heavy gear is justified as "chapter doctrine for very hostile environments." Don't know how well it would work, but it would look pretty cool, and fit in the tradition of "first and tenth" armies Marine players have been doing since at least 2nd. (mobile HB plus bolt guns could make for a fun little GEQ-harassment unit as well)

Techmarines are repairmen. Best value for points is hanging out with big, bad tanks and negating your opponents "weapon destroyed" and "immobilized" results. With full complement of tech servitors and servo-harness, he will fail 1/36 of the time. (rerollable 2+) His personal weapons would come into play if someone assaulted/was about to assault the tanks he's supporting - if the tank is assaulted and immobilized by a small unit of elite tank hunters, for instance, he could fix the tracks in the movement phase, then counter-assault with five attacks of the power fist or axe persuasion, plus some token normal attacks from the Servitors. Techmarines support vehicles, preferably heavy vehicles. Ordinary tac squads can play mech infantry better for less. I wouldn't use servitors as a front-line fire unit. However, wrecked Rhinoes as cover is a good idea - Rhinoes are great for running interference. Incidentally, the theme of weak (for Space Marines) squads with strong Sergeants seems to be emerging in your Chapter.

Wight_Widow,

Thanks for the insight about terminator-armoured scout sergeants.  While it might be legit RAW-wise, how much flak might I draw from other players over this? Is it worth the arguments?

Weak squads fronted by powerful sergeants is a new idea. I have pointed my army up in 5 or 10 man squads (Crusade or Battle pattern respectively). A Crusade pattern tac squad consists of (say) Sergeant, 1 Marine with flamer, 1 Marine with missile launcher and 2 Marines with boltguns. By your suggestion, I could upgrade the Sarge to a veteran then, with the Scions background, give him Terminator armour (paying for additional weapons). I don't think he could then carry the Cyclone as well, however. The army list says "The sergeant may be given terminator honours. If so, he may then select equipment from the Armoury." Cyclones aren't in the Armoury: I can only find them in the Elites Terminator entry. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Given the Chapter's "Stand Alone" drawback, I thought committing Techmarines to the battle would fit the background. Also, given their mission (to retreive as much technology as possible) it seemed right to put them at the forefront of a battle, to get their hands on the technology first (before their battle brothers blew it to smithereens). I take your point about their repair role, which I why I asked the question in the first place.

Thanks for your input.

Colin

That's the beauty of it - a cyclone, for all intents and purposes, is a missile launcher. A missile launcher can be a squad heavy weapon for scouts. A scout Sergeant can carry the squad heavy weapon. It doesn't matter that it isn't in the armoury because it is a legit squad entry upgrade that he could take even without Terminator Honours. Termie Armour is to make the missiles effectively an assault weapon. Same dilly-oh for the heavy bolter - the only instance in which a Terminator could carry an HB would be as a Scout Sergeant, for exactly the above reason.

Wight_Widow

Thanks for the clarification.

Now. Where are my old Space Hulk Terminators? I feel a conversion blitz coming on.

Colin