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to all those deploring the content of the diorama I say shame on you, how can you look at this and criticize the artist and at the same time applaud another who creates an incredibly visceral diorama of Khorne Bezerkers ripping guardsmen to bloody tatters. War is war ladies and gents, and in the 41st millennium it only gets worse, kudos to the artist for portraying a sensitive issue in an amazing way.

Brother Heinrich wrote:to all those deploring the content of the diorama I say shame on you, how can you look at this and criticize the artist and at the same time applaud another who creates an incredibly visceral diorama of Khorne Bezerkers ripping guardsmen to bloody tatters. War is war ladies and gents, and in the 41st millennium it only gets worse, kudos to the artist for portraying a sensitive issue in an amazing way.

1. One is separate (I for one haven't even looked at the other).
2. Get over yourself. This is not war. This is 40K. You have killer fungi fighting with pointy sticks. Its a game, nothing more.

Hypothetically, Fraz, how would you feel about the diorama were it not set in 40K?

The Dreadnote wrote:Hypothetically, Fraz, how would you feel about the diorama were it not set in 40K?

I'd say whats with the space ship?

Touché.

I think this is a worthwhile and praiseworthy achievement. It has a strong narrative carried though on the strength of the artist's skills. It does what every diorama should hope to do: pull the viewer into the scene.

I'm far more shocked by the opinions expressed in this and the other thread than by what the scene may be suggesting.

I was in a shop the other day, looking at a diorama of 5 WW2 soldiers leaning against a tank and smoking. Before long, 10 minutes had passed. I really enjoy being pulled into another place vis a vis someone's imagination--be it a tabletop game, a film, a book, music, a dish, or a diorama.

Thanks go out to the artist.

Frazzled wrote:
2. Get over yourself. This is not war. This is 40K. You have killer fungi fighting with pointy sticks. Its a game, nothing more.

then why get so ruffled over a pair of plastic alien toy knockers?

Brother Heinrich wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
2. Get over yourself. This is not war. This is 40K. You have killer fungi fighting with pointy sticks. Its a game, nothing more.

then why get so ruffled over a pair of plastic alien toy knockers?

Evidently because you forget what you type:

to all those deploring the content of the diorama I say shame on you

Bloody, horrific violence is fine but anything involving sexuality is naughty.

I'll never understand people.

It also seems to me that the one guy ripping off her breastplate isn't really all that out of place considering what they are ostensibly about to do to her...

Frazzled wrote:

Brother Heinrich wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
2. Get over yourself. This is not war. This is 40K. You have killer fungi fighting with pointy sticks. Its a game, nothing more.

then why get so ruffled over a pair of plastic alien toy knockers?

Evidently because you forget what you type:

to all those deploring the content of the diorama I say shame on you

perhaps I should've said, 'I don't understand why people have a negative view on the subject matter' instead of laying shame upon your head, I just don't understand attacking the artist for his choice in subject matter. Yes rape is a terrible act, and should be rightly spoken out against, the artist on the other hand should be applauded for touching on a very real and distressing part of the fictional universe we all so enjoy. If we didn't give a flying fart about the background or reailty behind our little toy men, then why not simply abolish the "background" and "General Discussion" sections and just leave it to tactics, rules and lists?

Frazzled wrote:

Brother Heinrich wrote:to all those deploring the content of the diorama I say shame on you, how can you look at this and criticize the artist and at the same time applaud another who creates an incredibly visceral diorama of Khorne Bezerkers ripping guardsmen to bloody tatters. War is war ladies and gents, and in the 41st millennium it only gets worse, kudos to the artist for portraying a sensitive issue in an amazing way.

1. One is separate (I for one haven't even looked at the other).
2. Get over yourself. This is not war. This is 40K. You have killer fungi fighting with pointy sticks. Its a game, nothing more.

Get over yourself, people can paint whatever they like, if you don't like it don't look.

Personally I liked it, moving grimdark more toward normal tropes.

namegoeshere wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Brother Heinrich wrote:to all those deploring the content of the diorama I say shame on you, how can you look at this and criticize the artist and at the same time applaud another who creates an incredibly visceral diorama of Khorne Bezerkers ripping guardsmen to bloody tatters. War is war ladies and gents, and in the 41st millennium it only gets worse, kudos to the artist for portraying a sensitive issue in an amazing way.

1. One is separate (I for one haven't even looked at the other).
2. Get over yourself. This is not war. This is 40K. You have killer fungi fighting with pointy sticks. Its a game, nothing more.

Get over yourself, people can paint whatever they like, if you don't like it don't look.

If you don't want comments then don't post it on the showcase forum.

Monster Rain wrote:Bloody, horrific violence is fine but anything involving sexuality is naughty.

I'll never understand people.

It also seems to me that the one guy ripping off her breastplate isn't really all that out of place considering what they are ostensibly about to do to her...

Ah, we agree yet again. This genre is full of bad, bad things--things far worse than rape. Genocide is a fundamental plank in the platform of 40k background, for example--and it is always presented in a tongue-in-cheek way. To say that this piece goes too far, or not far enough, in its realism is by turns stodgy and silly. It is an amazing piece and, if it has flaws, I don't think they've yet been discussed in this thread. I certainly haven't detected any.

She is clearly gonna grab that knife throw it in ole mohawks face then kick the rest of there ass's in a topless ninja like fashion just wait till she gets a hold of that lasgun or bolter you dumb ass guardsmen.

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:She is clearly gonna grab that knife throw it in ole mohawks face then kick the rest of there ass's in a topless ninja like fashion just wait till she gets a hold of that lasgun or bolter you dumb ass guardsmen.

agreed lol, that definitaley not a creature you want let your guard down around, think Kami from streetfighter lol

Join the Imperial Guard! Your Emperor needs YOU!

Monster Rain wrote:Bloody, horrific violence is fine but anything involving sexuality is naughty.

I don't think rape and sex amount to the same thing at all, disliking rape isn't about a dislike of sexuality in general, it's dislike of a horrible topic. Sexuality as a concept should be about expressing feelings, desires and confidence, the act of rape is about power, control and humiliation. I don't take issue with most sexualised miniatures but rape and non-consensual sexual acts I do find a distasteful topic.

Brother Heinrich wrote:Yes rape is a terrible act, and should be rightly spoken out against, the artist on the other hand should be applauded for touching on a very real and distressing part of the fictional universe we all so enjoy. If we didn't give a flying fart about the background or reailty behind our little toy men, then why not simply abolish the "background" and "General Discussion" sections and just leave it to tactics, rules and lists?

I find the message confusing, while on one hand there are people claiming it's supposed to be some clever and artistic commentary on the real horrors of war, but it's such an overtly sexualised piece that we are invited to oggle the about to be victim which makes the message of the whole piece adolescent and trivialised.

Howard A Treesong wrote: I don't take issue with most sexualised miniatures but rape and non-consensual sexual acts I do find a distasteful topic.

How about hate-motivated murder?

Howard A Treesong wrote:
I find the message confusing, while on one hand there are people claiming it's supposed to be some clever and artistic commentary on the real horrors of war, but it's such an overtly sexualised piece that we are invited to oggle the about to be victim which makes the message of the whole piece adolescent and trivialised.

a valid point sir, the same portrayal could've been achieved with tattered and torn clothes just as well, however I think the artist may have been going for shock value, in which case they certainly succeeded.

Manchu wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote: I don't take issue with most sexualised miniatures but rape and non-consensual sexual acts I do find a distasteful topic.

How about hate-motivated murder?

That's perfectly alright. It looks nice next to my intestines being dragged out and eaten by a daemon piece lol

Manchu wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote: I don't take issue with most sexualised miniatures but rape and non-consensual sexual acts I do find a distasteful topic.

How about hate-motivated murder?

I spoke of this on the similar thread in the discussions area. Mainly, rape is something that is emotionally very moving in a way that simple killing is not, dependent on the type of death though. People die all the time in films, but rape scenes are frequently the most shocking. I don't think there's any point in saying that murder is worse than rape, so because we tolerate people dying in fiction rape is clearly fair game. For instance, loads of computer games feature people dying, but running people over in a car in GTA is nothing like raping women in a controversial game like Rapelay. At a guess, subjects like rape affects a different part of the brain, whereas you can dissociate yourself from the non-reality of GTA and laugh at it, the content of something like Rapelay merely leaves one feeling sick.

So genocide is fine for subject material, but rape isnt?

Also, rape is a sexual act Howard. It's not consensual, but you can't act like it doesn't involve sexuality. It's not even necessarily violent.

Monster Rain wrote:So genocide is fine for subject material, but rape isnt?

Also, rape is a sexual act Howard. It's not consensual, but you can't act like it doesn't involve sexuality. It's not even necessarily violent.

I'm sorry, when was the last time there was a diorama on genocide again?

Does there need to be a diorama about it? It's an overarching theme throughout all of 40k. But forget about genocide, then. What about the art that depict graphic violence? Why is that less of a problem?

Monster Rain wrote:Does there need to be a diorama about it? It's an overarching theme throughout all of 40k. But forget about genocide, then. What about the art that depict graphic violence? Why is that less of a problem?

graphic violence against killer fungi...

I like it. But then again, I am an adult and have a right to appreciate whatever art I see fit.
Definitely not for kiddies, but I find myself asking why it's ok to glorify other examples of extreme violence and murder, but a scene like this causes such mixed reations?
Yes I get that rape is touchy, and not the same as a SM ripping an ork to shreds, but why?
As for the diorama itself, and the subject of xenophobic humans raping an eldar: I don't find it far-fetched at all. Rape is not about pleaseure gained form the act of sex, it's the act of dominance which drives the rapist. And what better way to establish dominance over someone you hate than to violate them in the most personal way possible. It's like prison rape, to qoute Richard Pryor "they don't do because they're gay, they do it to see the look on your face."
These soldiers could easily be a convict unit, the Imperium uses alot of those iirc.

I definitely agree with the sentiment that it is a touchy subject, and the artist got what he/she wanted by evoking a sense of revulsion in all of us. It's a fantastic piece, and one I would definitely associate more with art than the lesser-thought-of (HERESY!!! ) "hobby painting".

I personally wouldn't have made it 1) because my models suck hard compared to that jewel 2) I wouldn't feel right having that as an art piece in my home, and 3) the subject matter puts a bad taste in my mouth... as the artist intended.

For small nitpicks, yes, the breastplate is pristine while the rest of her armor is muddied and soiled, and while I'm no pro on Eldar under-armor or clothing, it does seem a bit odd that there's nothing under. If there were shredded remnants of the underlay there, it'd be a bit more convincing.

But other than that, the painting, the modelling, the whole scene really pulls together and brings up dark feelings. Kudos to the artist.

... Sidenote: That guy undoing his belt is about to get his junk chopped in half...

Interesting ideas about tattered clothing instead of exposed breasts. Definately the scariest thing about the piece is how it makes you think. It's just about like the scene from "Platoon".

In terms of genocide in the universe of our hobbies- your right, it's not out there in black and white. BUT is is implied and talked about in much (if not most) of the supplements in 40k, beit a piece of fluff in a codex or a chapter in a Black Library novel.

This piece is definately not a work I would show my friends who don't do 40k, but to fellow fans I find it interesting to see where the hobby should drawl it's lines.

Where's a Comissar when you need them.

Mr Nobody wrote:Where's a Comissar when you need them.

He's with the blob squad of 50 or so guardsmen, probaly locked in a meat grinding assult.