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 Xyxel wrote:
Feels like Necrons can play withouth character joining weak units.

Not really. Feels very much like Necrons are a relatively strong faction if you spam characters and a relatively weak one if you don't. In an edition where one of their stated aims was to give players freedom in list building, GW are yet again coercing Necron players into a pigeonhole and not even a fluffy one.

As a Necron player of almost 20 years, seeing our faction become the herohammer army with 5-6 characters on the board is upsetting because that is never how we've played with the possible exception of a period in 7th edition. It's also completely at odds with the lore, where one Overlord will command tens of thousands of warriors in battle... not just a squad lol. But I expect to be shouted down on here just like at the start of 9th edition when I said command protocols were dumb and too restrictive from the very beginning and 6 months later everyone agreed. With that experience in mind I'm not gonna entertain any debate, I'm entitled to my opinions and expect others will think the same sooner or later

Flayed Ones can infiltrate. How is it bad? Two 5 model units can block enemy first turn move. (if You start You can try to move and charge someting with them turn 1)

I didn't say they were bad I said they are overpriced for what they are. In 9th they finally got the points right and in units of 20 they were great.

Cynista wrote:
I'm not a fan of 10th ed Necrons to be honest, bit disappointed. Sure we have some good units and good rules but I really dislike the push to include as many characters as possible and have the detachment rule basically rely on having loads of characters in your army. I can't stress how much I dislike this frankly, it is neither fun or fluffy IMO.

Honestly, I don't hate the focus on characters.

It actually reminds me of how I used to play back in 5th edition, where I had 5-6 units of Immortals, each joined by a couple of Crypteks (thanks to the old Royal Court rules). It meant units could be semi-specialised (e.g. having a couple of despair-flamers or 8 haywire shots for anti-vehicle). Not a strong army but a lot of fun to play.

That said, I definitely have some issues with the current implementation:

- I'm not a fan of Crypteks having their WS and BS reduced so that they're reliant on being in a unit in order to have even average stats. That just seems completely backwards to me. I thought the whole point was the leaders improving their unit? Why does the leader also need a unit around to remind him how to shoot straight?

- Speaking of which, I'd have liked to see a bit more differentiation in the Cryptek weapon department. If choice is going to be removed, I think the Chronomancer should have kept his single-shot gun and the Psychomancer should have been given a flamer or something. Instead, they're all rocking midding weapons that really don't serve to meaningfully set them apart.

- The Psychomancer should be cool but his rules remain absolute arse. A -1Ld aura is not all that useful or exciting, even if GW weren't so inept as to have it improve enemy Ld values. And, unlike the others, he does nothing whatsoever to actually buff his own unit.

- The Technomancer wants to be a lone operative... but taking the cloak means he forfeits the only reason to be a lone operative in the first place.

- I hate that there are so many units we're just flat out not allowed to attach characters to at all.

- I'm seriously concerned that we're extremely vulnerable to increases in both character costs and wargear costs (especially the resurrection orb) in future balance patches.

i cant make up my mind if i like this index or not.

Lot of units are unusually weakened like they were designed to have a leader, but there is no leader for them or at least not one that actually helps.
Techno feels backwards in his upgrades
Lokhust's gun change irritates me to no end.
But RP can get absolutely ridiculous if done right and theres a lot of mobility shenanigans. Also i find it funny how last edition we struggled hard against high toughness and now we kinda dgaf lol

Unfortunately probably my favorite unit aesthetically the Doomstalker is just...bad...and that makes me sad lol. That gun is super lack luster for the price and with how weird the techno behaves he cant really buff them easily. Least his little brother is awesome lol

Not really. Feels very much like Necrons are a relatively strong faction if you spam characters and a relatively weak one if you don't.

Can you give examples? Adding Lokhust Lord for 85 to a unit of 3 Heavy Destroyers 135 is worth it?? (the only character able to join them)
Adding Characters to already big units might work only in two or three cases. Trying to build a death star units will only tie up a lot of points in one place.
And you can't add characters (in basic detachment) to units that you would realy want to:
- Flayed Ones
- Wraiths
- Praetorians

Looks like Necron advantage is the ability to heal inv 4++ vehicles. With optionaly Cryptek Reanimator for additional D3, with Technomancers with additional D3 - while Technomancers also improve BS and WS for Cryptek Units (Wraiths) while being a Lone Operative to jump 10" where healing or aura is needed. Seems as a best utility cryptek for some builds.

btw. Lokhust Heavy Destroyers are beatiful? No ramdom damage just straight 6 to murder (safely from distance in cover) enemy heavy elites, stranded characters, vehicles and monsters.

Who would you guys recommend lead a blob of warriors, plasmancer for the 5+ lethal hits or chronomancer for the movement shenanigans?
Something else?

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
Who would you guys recommend lead a blob of warriors, plasmancer for the 5+ lethal hits or chronomancer for the movement shenanigans?
Something else?

Depends really. The Plasmancer would normally be better off with Immortals unless you have a plan for getting the Warriors up close and fast, and the Chronomancer movement is good but you could be using the bonus movement on a melee unit like Lychguard to set up a turn 2 charge (and stack -1 to hit on top of -1 to wound).

Res orb overlord would always be a safe bet, doubling up activations of reanimation and you could use the free bonus stratagem to res some more each round.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
Who would you guys recommend lead a blob of warriors, plasmancer for the 5+ lethal hits or chronomancer for the movement shenanigans?
Something else?

The combo I've been doing is technomancer (5+ Fnp) and lord (res orb, +1 movement, use strats while battle shocked). If I have points left over might add the hypermatter ablator for -1 to be hit and cover from more than 12 away.

I don’t have any immortals at the moment so warriors are my go to.
I thought 5+ lethal hits would be strong with the volume of fire from the warriors

The warriors aren't killy no matter how much you buff their offense; what you want is to make them come back faster than the enemy can remove them. Necrons wins by sitting their fat metal butts on the center objective and never leaving.

I played a match with my Necrons last night.
Since all the rules are new I wanted to try out my new toys, sadly my opponent have three armies death guard, admech and knight.... so I got to play knight.
You truly have to bring quite a few dedicated anti-tank guns to a fight nowdays, more than half my army where wounding his troops on 5+ at best.
I think knight will be strong in this edition since you really need alot of heavy guns to counter them. And the 18" flamer is a real pain in the as with the new overwatch strategem



Illuminor Seraz was fun to try out, will give him another go but I think he is a little bit to prizy.
Reanimator was just amazing, but once my opponent realized what it did he shoot it to bits turn 2.
The block of lychguard were great, untill they failed a battleshock and then they melted since I could not back them up with strategems anymore (you can only auto-pass in the command phase with the strategem)

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
Who would you guys recommend lead a blob of warriors, plasmancer for the 5+ lethal hits or chronomancer for the movement shenanigans?
Something else?

I think a nice tech for the Chrono is with a 10 man warrior squad inside a Ghost Ark. Get out, move up shoot then use the post shoot move to get back into the G Ark. It's a nice way to hold objectives too, you don't lose out on firepower and they have to kill the Ark and then the warriors that spill out.

A unit cannot embark and disembark in the same phase (page 17)
Properly placed Ghost Ark (more killy, fast and tough than 10 warriors) can hold objective and prevent enemy models to go arround it to score that objective.

 Xyxel wrote:
A unit cannot embark and disembark in the same phase (page 17)
Properly placed Ghost Ark (more killy, fast and tough than 10 warriors) can hold objective and prevent enemy models to go arround it to score that objective.

Luckily he's disembarking in movememt phase and embarking in shooting.

Also checked and embark isn'' movement phase locked.

Night Scythe can do this too (without Chronomancer) as it would be movement phase/fight phase.

True though unable to be on board and reserve placement rules make it tricky to benefit before 3rd turn

Edit: sorry with shooting unit works bit better

Luckily he's disembarking in movememt phase and embarking in shooting.
Also checked and embark isn'' movement phase locked.

Embarking / disembarking is mentioned only in Movement phase, but yesss as a Necron player : ) I would also lean into such interpretation after re-reading.

Yes. But it doesn't say you can do only in movement phase. You can do it after normal move which technomancer allows.

You normally fight only in fight phase but there's ways to fight in other phase. Doesn't require fight rules in every phase

 Xyxel wrote:

Luckily he's disembarking in movememt phase and embarking in shooting.
Also checked and embark isn'' movement phase locked.

Embarking / disembarking is mentioned only in Movement phase, but yesss as a Necron player : ) I would also lean into such interpretation after re-reading.

hahah i'm just thinking about having 10 reaper warriors in a GA on an objective and the GA gets charged (but not wrapped) and you disembark, shoot, reembark, shoot the GA every turn, lol. That just sounds so absolutely stupid. (not OP or anything, just hilarious and dumb)

Just played a game with them.
A few observations -

- Reanimator is now an incredibly useful support tool. Being able to roll 2D3 RPs for anything within 12" is pretty potent.

- Vehicles also get RP. You can't use the Reanimator on them unless they have the Necron keyword, but being able to just regain D3 wounds isn't anything to sniff at.

- The new Overwatch also triggers on movement. This makes the Doomstalker an incredibly scary unit, as once per turn you can interrupt your opponent's movement with 2-7 S14 shots that hit on nat 5+ due to sentinel construct.

- Tesla + Plasmancer are practically designed for each other. You can also cast Living Lightning when you shoot to get some more damage.

- Explosive scarabs are pretty filthy. Remember that they also have RP, so even if you sacrifice one you can potentially get one back.

- Skorpekh lords are pretty scary. Being able to just throw out mortal wounds on the charge on top of his normal attacks is nasty.

- This may need to be FAQ'd, but RAW it seems that Protocol of the Undying Legions can be used on destroyed units? It says you activate it after an enemy resolves its shooting attacks and you use it on a unit that took casualties. Which would imply that it can technically be eligible for those emergency RPs? I dunno its weird. Maybe you can when a character is leading it.

- Heavy Destroyers with the AT option are still disappointments. They even lost the reroll 1s to hit ability from 9th ed.

- Lokhusts actually received a bit of a nerf this edition, I feel. They are slower and the RR1 for the standard version only works on the closest enemy, I think they lost some AP and strength and you can't merge heavies and standard in the same unit. At least gauss cannons deal a flat 2 damage this time and the heavy gauss cannon (I forgot the new name) packs a punch. If only the damned thing would hit.

- Necrons are a lot slower overall, and none of them have that take and scoot ability like Marines have. This makes taking objectives and board control a little harder, which makes Tomb Blades, Ophidians, Wraiths and Praetorians (which I did not have) a lot more valuable as they can move more than 7".



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 usernamesareannoying wrote:
Who would you guys recommend lead a blob of warriors, plasmancer for the 5+ lethal hits or chronomancer for the movement shenanigans?
Something else?

Abuse the Cryptek's special attachment rule.
Stick a lord with a res orb.
Stick as many crypteks as you want in the unit.

Here's what that rule says

You can attach this model to one of the above units even
if one Royal Warden or Noble model has already been
attached to it. If you do, and that Bodyguard unit is destroyed,
the Leader units attached to it become separate units, with
their original Starting Strengths.

Note that there is no clause about crypteks being in the unit. So unless I'm missing something, RAW, as long as you have one noble in the unit, you can fit as many crypteks as you want.

Now why a Res orb you ask? Because it allows you to activate RP in both you and your opponent's command phase. So you get double the RP procs.
Technomancers give the unit they're leading 5+ FNP.
Chronomancer reduces all hit rolls targeting that unit by 1

Now stick a reanimator. You now have even more RP rolls (only during your turn, and only D3 as it specifies it. So no, you can't get 2d6 warriors per turn.)

Now stick in a ghost ark to get even more regen.

Now place them on an objective to get D3+3 RPs.

You literally cannot die unless you roll really, really poorly or your opponent dumps every single gun onto them.
Even if they kill the ghost ark and the reanimator, you're still getting D3+3 RPs every command phase with 5+ FNP and -1 to hit them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xyxel wrote:


btw. Lokhust Heavy Destroyers are beatiful? No ramdom damage just straight 6 to murder (safely from distance in cover) enemy heavy elites, stranded characters, vehicles and monsters.

They get one shot with no rerolls. You either need to never move at all (which in a game with a lot of terrain is a problem, and a proper table should have a lot of terrain) or have a lord babysitting them at all times. And remember, lokhust lords have no proper ranged options, so they really are babysitters.

Is there a rule that states that the minimum amount of damage inflicted must be one? Because Implacable Resiliance doesn't give a minimum. So RAW, you can in fact deal 0 damage to an Overlord.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

- Vehicles also get RP. You can't use the Reanimator on them unless they have the Necron keyword, but being able to just regain D3 wounds isn't anything to sniff at.

Vehicles do, in fact, have the Necrons Keyword. It's the Faction Keyword. If you look at Keyword line on any dataslate the Faction Keyword is the only place Necrons is listed

Necron Warriors:
KEYWORDS: Infantry, Battleline, Necron Warriors FACTION KEYWORDS: Necrons

Ghost Ark:
KEYWORDS: Vehicle, Fly, Transport, Dedicated Transport, Ghost Ark FACTION KEYWORDS: Necrons

So the Reanimator itself has a 4+ FNP and then a 2d3 Reanimation in the controlling players Command Phase. Put it in range of a Res Orb Lord with the Enhancement that makes it a 6" Aura and it can heal itself in the enemy Command Phase as well. Good Luck moving that 20 man Warrior Blob from anywhere.

oh wow i didnt even think of that, i think my brain just defaulted to "NECRON INFANTRY" even though it clearly just says NECRON

Freaking reanimator just gets better and better. Its gonna be such a bullet magnet lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
oh wow i didnt even think of that, i think my brain just defaulted to "NECRON INFANTRY" even though it clearly just says NECRON

Freaking reanimator just gets better and better. Its gonna be such a bullet magnet lol

Keep in mind you Battle-shock at the end of the Command Phase. So you can bring a unit below Half-Strength back up and wont have to take the check.

Necron still don't care (as much) about morale checks

They get one shot with no rerolls.

Lokhust Heavy Destroyers have re-roll of 1 to wound monster.vehicles. That handy as they shoot with S14. Heavy gives them +1 to BS.
Thats pretty good for 45 points imo.
Without any supporting characters or stratagems.
Adding characters to them would only make them a big target and a point sink. Better to get more of them than add characters.

Necron Warriors 20 model blobs.
Yes we can regenerate a lot of them, teleport with Veil, etc., great. But if enemy in killing ~14 of them each turn (my experience) they agre gone after two turns. Especiall in engagement range because they are supposed to hold objectives right?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Abuse the Cryptek's special attachment rule.

The rules commentary makes it explicit that you can only use a "join an additional character to the unit" rule once per unit, so you get one noble and one cryptek. This restriction doesn't apply to the cryptothralls since they're not characters.

Regarding multiple cryptek in unit. Core rule max 1 leader. Cryptek has extra rule but what allows to ignore the other cryptek for max 1?

Marines can't put captain, lietnaunt and another minor character with lietnaunt style rule

Interesting thoughts overall but my observations on your observations in bold.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Just played a game with them.
- Vehicles also get RP. You can't use the Reanimator on them unless they have the Necron keyword, but being able to just regain D3 wounds isn't anything to sniff at.
Every unit in the base index (not bothered with forgeworld) gets the ability RP except for Transcendent C'Tan (probably typo but funny).

- This may need to be FAQ'd, but RAW it seems that Protocol of the Undying Legions can be used on destroyed units? It says you activate it after an enemy resolves its shooting attacks and you use it on a unit that took casualties. Which would imply that it can technically be eligible for those emergency RPs? I dunno its weird. Maybe you can when a character is leading it.
I think RAW that you have no unit to use the strategem on if it is dead.

- Lokhusts actually received a bit of a nerf this edition, I feel. They are slower and the RR1 for the standard version only works on the closest enemy, I think they lost some AP and strength and you can't merge heavies and standard in the same unit. At least gauss cannons deal a flat 2 damage this time and the heavy gauss cannon (I forgot the new name) packs a punch. If only the damned thing would hit.
Heavy Lokhusts with the anti-infantry gun seem better than basic Lokhusts, 3 shots AP2 D2 vs 6 or 12 shots +1S AP1 D1, you basically just circumvent -1D abilities. Lokhust Lords give anti-infantry Heavy Lokhusts +1 to hit, sustained hits on 5s as well as 6s. If you are shooting 36 shots with your 135 point unit and moved (to get in half range) you expect to get 30 hits (4.5 points per hit). Add a Lord and you expect 42 hits, 12 more, so 54 points of hits, but he costs 85, so is the other 31 points worth the body, res orb, second half of each strat and situational re-rolls to hit and wound against low strength units?

Abuse the Cryptek's special attachment rule.
Stick as many crypteks as you want in the unit.
Note that there is no clause about crypteks being in the unit. So unless I'm missing something, RAW, as long as you have one noble in the unit, you can fit as many crypteks as you want.
Designer's Commentary limits it to two attached units per bodyguard.

Now stick a reanimator. You now have even more RP rolls (only during your turn, and only D3 as it specifies it. So no, you can't get 2d6 warriors per turn.)
See below.

Is there a rule that states that the minimum amount of damage inflicted must be one? Because Implacable Resiliance doesn't give a minimum. So RAW, you can in fact deal 0 damage to an Overlord.
Designer's commentary states a minimum of one.

Army rule wrote:If your Army Faction is Necrons, at the end of your Command phase, each unit from your army with this ability activates its Reanimation Protocols and reanimates D3 wounds.

Strat wrote:Your unit activates its Reanimation Protocols and reanimates D3 wounds.

Ghost Ark wrote:Once per phase, just after an enemy unit finishes making its attacks, if one or more friendly Necron Warriors units within 3" of this model lost one or more wounds as a result of those attacks, this model can use this ability.If it does, select one of those Necron Warriors units; that unit’s Reanimation Protocols activate.

Reanimator wrote:While a friendly Necrons unit is within 12" of this model, each time that unit’s Reanimation Protocols activate, that unit reanimates an additional D3 wounds.

Warriors wrote:Each time this unit’s Reanimation Protocols activate, it reanimates D6 wounds instead of D3 wounds, unless it is within range of an objective marker you control, in which case it reanimates D3+3 wounds instead.

The way I read all of these is you put your Necron Warriors led by an Overlord on an objective with a Reanimator nearby, you get 2d3+3 from your Ghost Ark, 2d3+4 from your (free) strat, 2d3+3 in your command phase and 2d3+3 in their command phase.

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

- Vehicles also get RP. You can't use the Reanimator on them unless they have the Necron keyword, but being able to just regain D3 wounds isn't anything to sniff at.

Vehicles do, in fact, have the Necrons Keyword. It's the Faction Keyword. If you look at Keyword line on any dataslate the Faction Keyword is the only place Necrons is listed

Necron Warriors:
KEYWORDS: Infantry, Battleline, Necron Warriors FACTION KEYWORDS: Necrons

Ghost Ark:
KEYWORDS: Vehicle, Fly, Transport, Dedicated Transport, Ghost Ark FACTION KEYWORDS: Necrons

So the Reanimator itself has a 4+ FNP and then a 2d3 Reanimation in the controlling players Command Phase. Put it in range of a Res Orb Lord with the Enhancement that makes it a 6" Aura and it can heal itself in the enemy Command Phase as well. Good Luck moving that 20 man Warrior Blob from anywhere.

True, I was thinking of Canopteks vehicles (my vehicles in my list were canoptek), which don't count as necrons, oddly enough.

Fair enough about the Designer's commentary.
They should have really put those clauses in the rules themselves though.


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 Xyxel wrote:

They get one shot with no rerolls.

Lokhust Heavy Destroyers have re-roll of 1 to wound monster.vehicles. That handy as they shoot with S14. Heavy gives them +1 to BS.
?

They still need to hit and bypass invuls though. In 9th ed they can reroll hit rolls of a 1, which is more reliable than 2+ to hit.
As I said, if they move (and you will have to move) they go back to 3+ to hit with no rerolls. Being able to reroll wound doesn't matter if you miss.
I found them to be unreliable. They can be potentially lethal, but for 45 a model points I'd prefer something a little more reliable.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

They still need to hit and bypass invuls though. In 9th ed they can reroll hit rolls of a 1, which is more reliable than 2+ to hit.
As I said, if they move (and you will have to move) they go back to 3+ to hit with no rerolls. Being able to reroll wound doesn't matter if you miss.
I found them to be unreliable. They can be potentially lethal, but for 45 a model points I'd prefer something a little more reliable.

2+ has 83% hit rate.3+ rr1 77%'.

You can get them +1 to hit beyond heavy.

Oh, another observation -
You absolutely need to have some sort of melee unit in your backfield. Getting multicharged can absolutely shut your army down, as necrons are too slow to disengage repeatedly.

This is probably what Skorpekhs and Lychguard are intended for; they are too slow to be decent assault units, but they are fast enough to respond to local threats.

Can a unit that disengages still shoot overwatch?

Had my first game today. 1000 points. I took a bunch of different things because I wanted to see what worked best.

I had 2x10 Warriors, and from now on I'm running 20 at a time instead. I got to reanimate 3 in 1 squad. Same turn, the other 10 died so couldn't be reanimated. Just barely all 10... So I would've lost 13 total in that turn, and possibly could've brough back a bunch of them. Lesson learned.

Short-range Warrior weapons are still better.

I need more Immortals. I only have 5, and they didn't achieve much, but seem promising. Deathmarks were great, up on my home objective on top of a building.

Reanimator is nice, but definitely a big target. Doomstalker rolled pretty poorly, but in turn 5 rolled hot and finished off a big tank. The tank that wiped both of my 10-person Warrior squads. Heavy Lokhust took the anti-infantry weapon, as my opponent only had 1 heavy thing. Didn't do that great, really. Killed a couple Intercessors. Not bad, but not great.

Skorpekhs got a turn 1 charge, and minced a unit. Then on opponent's turn 1, they got minced.

Overlords were good. That 2+ save was great.

Wound up winning 25-23.

Question though. Does the Reanimator actually give itself +1d3? The wording says "friendly unit". Can it be its own friend? We ruled "No".

On the whole, I like the new Necrons. Next game I'll try some Scarabs, Tomb Blades, and Crypteks. That's basically all I have that I didn't try today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh! I also have a Doom Scythe, but I think I'll try it as a Night Scythe first. Drop a huge blob of Warriors, Overlord, Cryptek and Cryptothralls on the centre objective turn 1. Should be nasty, especially as I can hide the Scythe behind a building on deployment, so it and the huge blob won't be shot up if the enemy gets turn 1. Overwatch, I guess...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait... Did I read somewhere that flyers start in reserves?