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 Wyldhunt wrote:

I'm actually a little surprised the AL are having as hard a time as they seem to be in Harrowmaster. We know that they're quite good at building up mortal cults and pulling off tricky schemes. Given enough time and a few heretechs to help make new astartes, I'd think they'd be pretty good at accumulating large stockpiles of resources, marines, and mortal agents. Heck. I'd almost expect them to be able to take control of entire sectors in rapid succession given enough prep time. Maybe the lack of long-term cooperation means that some of the less patient factions keep jumping the gun and using up their accumulated resources?

In fairness, they are infiltrating an extremely paranoid empire with multiple factions of secret and overt police constantly looking out for heretics and traitors. Considering how overzealous many of them are, they tend to kill a whole lot of basically loyal citizens on a whim, so actual traitors have to hide pretty deep and might get caught by pure chance because a passing witch hunter thought the general populace looks a bit funny.

mrFickle wrote:
I don’t like this. As a reader I want to see the story play out where alpharius tricks other characters. I don’t want to be lied to via the 4th wall

You should maybe read the book before passing judgment when you only know the first line.

 Haighus wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:

I'm actually a little surprised the AL are having as hard a time as they seem to be in Harrowmaster. We know that they're quite good at building up mortal cults and pulling off tricky schemes. Given enough time and a few heretechs to help make new astartes, I'd think they'd be pretty good at accumulating large stockpiles of resources, marines, and mortal agents. Heck. I'd almost expect them to be able to take control of entire sectors in rapid succession given enough prep time. Maybe the lack of long-term cooperation means that some of the less patient factions keep jumping the gun and using up their accumulated resources?

In fairness, they are infiltrating an extremely paranoid empire with multiple factions of secret and overt police constantly looking out for heretics and traitors. Considering how overzealous many of them are, they tend to kill a whole lot of basically loyal citizens on a whim, so actual traitors have to hide pretty deep and might get caught by pure chance because a passing witch hunter thought the general populace looks a bit funny.

My thinking was that the imperium is so paranoid about rooting out cultists that they might functionally be pretty bad at actually getting a significant number of actual cultists. That is, if you're not rambling about chaos gods or sporting any tentacles, I feel like the imperial authorities are probably just murdering more or less random civillians rather than actually refining their searches to root out cults most of the time. We know from GSC that keeping your head down and blending in is a sufficiently good tactic to keep your cult safe while it expands, and the brutality of the imperium means it's generally pretty easy to find people willing to betray their overlords.

That is, rooting out some percentage of cultists isn't especially useful if you lack the tools to follow up and root out actual cult networks. Especially if you foster an environment that means the cultists you do kill will be replaced the next day.

I don't think GSCs are a good barometer though- they literally have a telepathic override making them considerably more self-sacrificing for their cult leaders than is the human norm.

I'm not saying the Imperium doesn't get in its own way the vast majority of the time, and it certainly throws out the baby with the bathwater constantly. But their entire society is laced with (battle trained) fanatics looking over your shoulder for any disloyalty, who are supported by several powerful groups of off-worlder oversight. Hiding a cult must be pretty hard in that environment.

 Haighus wrote:
I don't think GSCs are a good barometer though- they literally have a telepathic override making them considerably more self-sacrificing for their cult leaders than is the human norm.

I'm not saying the Imperium doesn't get in its own way the vast majority of the time, and it certainly throws out the baby with the bathwater constantly. But their entire society is laced with (battle trained) fanatics looking over your shoulder for any disloyalty, who are supported by several powerful groups of off-worlder oversight. Hiding a cult must be pretty hard in that environment.

Indeed plus Cults of various kinds are also almost always hostile to each other.

 Gert wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I don’t like this. As a reader I want to see the story play out where alpharius tricks other characters. I don’t want to be lied to via the 4th wall

You should maybe read the book before passing judgment when you only know the first line.

Fair enough, I haven’t read the book, but I was put off by the people reporting that the narrator basically tells you the reader that evening in the book may or may not have happened rather than it just being a story of events in 40K

Either alpharius was the first one found or wasn’t. It’s fine if RG is left guessing but I, the reader, should know.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Anybody read Head of the Hydra?

It is my favourite book from the Primarchs series. Recommended for any AL fan.

mrFickle wrote:


Either alpharius was the first one found or wasn’t. It’s fine if RG is left guessing but I, the reader, should know.

A compelling narrative can still be crafted around unknowns, and indeed was in earlier 40k lore.

The need to explain everything incl. the entire Horus Heresy novel series has cheapened the setting. Mystery is good in a sandbox.

To be fair, the Heresy also opened as many doors as it closed.
For example, "Why did there need to be any Salamanders novels?".

mrFickle wrote:

 Gert wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I don’t like this. As a reader I want to see the story play out where alpharius tricks other characters. I don’t want to be lied to via the 4th wall

You should maybe read the book before passing judgment when you only know the first line.

Fair enough, I haven’t read the book, but I was put off by the people reporting that the narrator basically tells you the reader that evening in the book may or may not have happened rather than it just being a story of events in 40K

Either alpharius was the first one found or wasn’t. It’s fine if RG is left guessing but I, the reader, should know.

Virtually every and any source in 40k can be considered a lie from some point of view.

 Haighus wrote:

mrFickle wrote:


Either alpharius was the first one found or wasn’t. It’s fine if RG is left guessing but I, the reader, should know.

A compelling narrative can still be crafted around unknowns, and indeed was in earlier 40k lore.

The need to explain everything incl. the entire Horus Heresy novel series has cheapened the setting. Mystery is good in a sandbox.

I’d agree if they hadn’t written so many HH books, but to given sooooo much information and then leave tantalising mysteries is frustrating I find. I would have rather they did HH over 3 big books like LOR and just focus on the emperor and primarchs. That would have left ample room for expansion and mystery without excluding people who can’t dedicate their whole life to reading black library books