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Doc, are you actually reading my posts? Because it feels like you aren't and are just arguing for the sake of it.

We also aren't talking "Random World 24214", we're talking Cadia, Catachan or Valhalla, planets that supply vital services to the Imperium, a point I mentioned in my last post.

I also raised the notion of Chapter crises in that same post.

A Chapter couldn't just rock up to Catachan and say "Give us your youths" because either the Catachans say yes out of fear of reprisal and the wider Imperium turns its gaze on said Chapter, or they say no and that Chapter invades to take what it needs, and then the Inquisition gets involved and the Chapter gets mulched by the Grey Knights.

A local governor can negotiate but the Imperium doesn't just ignore when the Space Marines start to get a bit uppity. They have a long enough leash as it is and if Chapters started taking Aspirants from worlds that were vital to the Guard, then the Imperium isn't going to let that stand.

Which all circles back to my initial point of "No, Chapters can't just do what they want".

Edit: in agreement with Gert above, they posted quicker!

Again, it is a question of political capital. I am confident that Astartes have some kind of right to claim recruitment from Imperial worlds, but doing so may incur political consequences. It is similar to how Inquisitors technically have unlimited powers, but in practice are limited by their own political power.

Furthermore, I highly doubt an Astartes force pulling recruits from a random world is going to carefully select the 100 aspirants it needs to replace its 100 casualties. It is probably going to forcefully round up 10000 youths, dump them into a death tournament, and take the last 100 survivors or something similarly quick and brutal.

Depending on the population of the world, this is going to matter to varying degrees. 10000 pre-pubertal youths from a world like Catachan with a population of just 5 million and high death rates? That could have an impact on the population's sustainability.

Looks like a very similar background between marine induction and Stormtrooper induction. Mostly missing the major surgical interventions amd additional internal gubbinz.

Which is why I said earlier there’s no one answer to this. There’s lot of “what ifs”, “buts” and “unless” to be taken into consideration.

The only constant is that established Chapter Worlds being exempt from a Tithe doesn’t mean a given Chapter is therefore forbidden from recruiting from anywhere else.

My argument is there’s no Imperial Law, so far as I’m aware, preventing any Chapter wanting to recruit from wherever is handy. But as many have preferred recruitment worlds, it seems it’s super rare that any major in-canon named world might have to deal with the question in the first place.

What might happen if told “no, sod off” is likewise going to be situational. Some Chapters might well just smash and grab. Some might remember the slight and refuse to give their aid to that planet in future, some might take it entirely gracefully. And indeed everything in between.

 Haighus wrote:
snipped…

Depending on the population of the world, this is going to matter to varying degrees. 10000 pre-pubertal youths from a world like Catachan with a population of just 5 million and high death rates? That could have an impact on the population's sustainability.

Canon has established a Catachan 1014th regiment. It has been mentioned before that the world can literally pump out regiments apparently with no particular impact on its sustainability. Being part of the wider Imperium means it doesn’t need to be self sustaining, as useful stuff can be brought in so that the denizens of the planet can concentrate solely on becoming the hardest specimens humanity has ever seen.

 Flinty wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
snipped…

Depending on the population of the world, this is going to matter to varying degrees. 10000 pre-pubertal youths from a world like Catachan with a population of just 5 million and high death rates? That could have an impact on the population's sustainability.

Canon has established a Catachan 1014th regiment. It has been mentioned before that the world can literally pump out regiments apparently with no particular impact on its sustainability. Being part of the wider Imperium means it doesn’t need to be self sustaining, as useful stuff can be brought in so that the denizens of the planet can concentrate solely on becoming the hardest specimens humanity has ever seen.

This is true, I remember the thread. There are some... competing sources about Catachan's population/output However, if the world was less well known and therefore less well supported by the Imperium, then losing such a proportion of youths before they could contribute to the next generation would be problematic.

Again, though the OP is very specifically talking about two things:

1 - Raising Guard Regiments from Chapter worlds.

2 - Chapters taking Aspirants from major Guard recruiting worlds.

It really doesn't matter if the Crouching Tigers take 2000 youths from Explinius VI. It does matter if the Hidden Dragons take 2000 youths from Catachan because Catachan is an important cog in the Imperial war machine, more so than any one Chapter getting some Aspirants quicker than usual.

Plus, if one Chapter does it, what if all the other Chapters start doing it? What if each Chapter takes it upon itself to start taking badly needed Guard recruits from major recruiting worlds because those youths are likely to be hardier or started training already? That's where the politics comes in because that is a very real problem for the Bureaucracy that needs to get nipped in the bud.

Marines aren’t stupid though. Unsustainable harvesting of the population from a world would be harming the imperium. So it’s not just politics, but also a vague understanding about cause and effect.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

My argument is there’s no Imperial Law, so far as I’m aware, preventing any Chapter wanting to recruit from wherever is handy. But as many have preferred recruitment worlds, it seems it’s super rare that any major in-canon named world might have to deal with the question in the first place.

The only thing I can think of that would point to there potentially being one is that the Tanith 1st needed a special proclamation from the Sabbat Crusade Warmaster to be able to recruit from the gangs and other volunteers after a particularly brutal campaign.

It's possible that Chapters receive these writs or other benefits as a matter of quid pro quo whenever they respond to desperate Imperial calls or requests from the Inquisition.

Since the Lamentors had their recruitment frozen by Inquisitorial edict, it would make sense that the Imperium keeps some kind of leash on Space Marine recruiting, if they already have a mechanic to 'punish' Chapters, even if it hasn't been specifically mentioned in fluff.

Depends how well and widely such an edict is spread.

Given the inertia of everything in The Imperium, we can’t take it as a given that everyone who needs to know will know. And there’s still nothing preventing the Lamenters from forcibly abducting youths for recruitment.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Depends how well and widely such an edict is spread.

Given the inertia of everything in The Imperium, we can’t take it as a given that everyone who needs to know will know. And there’s still nothing preventing the Lamenters from forcibly abducting youths for recruitment.

There is- they would be branded excommunicatus traitoris if caught. They are on a last-chance-saloon penitence crusade that the Imperium doesn't care if they survive. Caught breaking the terms of that, and the Imperium turns against them. Given the circumstances of their punishment, that could involve sending the Minotaurs after them.

Flinty wrote:Marines aren’t stupid though. Unsustainable harvesting of the population from a world would be harming the imperium. So it’s not just politics, but also a vague understanding about cause and effect.

They are not stupid, but they do frequently operate on "ends justify the means" approaches (such as the Iron Snakes sacrificing the colony of Naxos to break the back of local Dark Eldar forces in an ambush).

An individual Marine chapter may well deem that their own survival is of more importance to the wider Imperium than the Imperial world they are pilfering for supplies and recruits. Generally, if the world is a backwater, most of the Imperium will agree.

Marines aren't stupid, but their predispositions and strengths can be seen as a weakness in some instances. For example, in HH where I believe Loken was breaking the Imperial Fists librarians out of their jail and they said "No thanks." Even though he was under Malcador's authority, which is second only to Emps and they had realized warp entities fear Psykers, the Fist's librarians refused BECAUSE of their unswerving loyalty and devotion to the law.
And a lot of loyalist chapters are this way, as they are founded on Guilliman's book (Or, say they are like Slamanders, Wolves, Etc) and that is THE LAW to them, and no interpretations otherwise. IDK if they are still doing it but modern US Marines would have the stereotypical drill sergeant and call them maggots to grind them down and become members of a loyal squad that are obedient to their superiors. But, 40k shines it's grimdark parody light on this and shows how the Imperium is one big instance of "serve your betters, don't ask questions". Just look at any Ecclesiarch meeting minutes...