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This question has been asked before. I am aware of that. But it was always with armor and weapons. What i want to know is who would win if one spartan and one space marine where locked in a room in normal people clothes. Who would win? and what if it where John (Master Chief) vs. a space marine hero (i.e. draigo, calgar, lysander). Also no psychic powers by space marines.

Who ever had their name on the front cover of said publication.

 Still Standing wrote:
Who ever had their name on the front cover of said publication.

Bingo.

There's all sorts of junk flying around about who is capable of what. Marines bench-pressing Landraiders, Spartans flipping tanks and drop-podding without a pod, so on and so forth.

All it really comes down to is who's playground the story is set in.

Space Marines. They are trained using ancient technologies and arts of martial combat. They are better at close combat than the average human and are freaking huge. Spartans may be strong but Space Marines are much stronger, trained better and enhanced using much more advanced technology.

John vs. Draigo? Unless you want to give it to his incredible luck (a vague concept and shouldn't be included), then Draigo by far.

Having read a couple of the Halo novels it seems that the Spartans are ridiculously enhanced too. I don't think this fictional fight has an easy winner.

Space marine would win. The Sparten is the "Space marine" of Halo but has less combat skill, less survivability then a 40k Space marine. Even with the new Sparten IV, they don't rank much past a space marine scout... thats what I believe atlest.
I'm sure the fan-boy war will began again....

 Still Standing wrote:
Having read a couple of the Halo novels it seems that the Spartans are ridiculously enhanced too. I don't think this fictional fight has an easy winner.

Thats what I always saw. Spartans arent as big as space marines but they could be faster.

 prophet102 wrote:

 Still Standing wrote:
Having read a couple of the Halo novels it seems that the Spartans are ridiculously enhanced too. I don't think this fictional fight has an easy winner.

Thats what I always saw. Spartans arent as big as space marines but they could be faster.

Physically they're pretty close. The Master Chief is 6'10, Jorge is 7', Noble 6 is 6'9". Armour is noted to add 4", and Astartes are noted to be 7' in armour. So it's pretty much a wash there, and as both have muscular and skeletal enhancements that's also going to be too close to give one side a significant edge over the other.

Based off of actual displayed capabilities and not hearsay and crap no one cares about, Spartans are faster, but Space Marines are stronger, and outside of armor they're more durable.

So a Space Marine versus a Spartan in a fist-fight with no armor on would basically be Mohammed Ali versus Bruce Lee in a fight; Spartan dancing around the Astarte in circles doing karate chops and gak, then getting KNTFO in one punch.

 Kaldor wrote:

 prophet102 wrote:

 Still Standing wrote:
Having read a couple of the Halo novels it seems that the Spartans are ridiculously enhanced too. I don't think this fictional fight has an easy winner.

Thats what I always saw. Spartans arent as big as space marines but they could be faster.

Physically they're pretty close. The Master Chief is 6'10, Jorge is 7', Noble 6 is 6'9". Armour is noted to add 4", and Astartes are noted to be 7' in armour. So it's pretty much a wash there, and as both have muscular and skeletal enhancements that's also going to be too close to give one side a significant edge over the other.

Ive seen sources claiming that Astartes can be up to 9' in armor. Isn't Jorge huge as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what if a knife was thrown to each soldier? who has the better martial prowess?

BlaxicanX wrote:
Based off of actual displayed capabilities and not hearsay and crap no one cares about, Spartans are faster, but Space Marines are stronger, and outside of armor they're more durable.

So a Space Marine versus a Spartan in a fist-fight with no armor on would basically be Mohammed Ali versus Bruce Lee in a fight; Spartan dancing around the Astarte in circles doing karate chops and gak, then getting KNTFO in one punch.

I think it'd be more like Ali and Foreman...

Too varied to give an answer, imo. Space Marines have been killed by everything in close-combat at least once. You range from fodder Marines who get killed by robo-ants in the Horus Heresy, to God-Marines in people like Calgar, who can duel an army for three days. The "average martial skill" of a Marine varies greatly, I've come to find.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Still Standing wrote:
Who ever had their name on the front cover of said publication.

Bingo.

There's all sorts of junk flying around about who is capable of what. Marines bench-pressing Landraiders, Spartans flipping tanks and drop-podding without a pod, so on and so forth.

All it really comes down to is who's playground the story is set in.

/thread

i usually avoid these sorts of topics, but i have to point out a few things. where the spartans may be roughly the same height as an astartes, the astartes most likely have more mass overall. look at the concept art showing the general size of a marine (cant find it), it shows one without armor. going by the halo games, and the art ive seen, a spartan in full armor isnt as quit as thick as an unarmored marine.

the marine would most likely be much stronger than the spartan, and not much slower. they have very quick reaction speed, and running wise are much faster than a human. add a knife in as suggested, and its still roughly the same out come. the spartan will have muscle to cut through than the marine, plus the fused ribcage and denser bones.

granted, i am biased towards marines, as im not really a fan of halo. but i do find the spartans kinda cool, being the marines of their universe. doesnt change that i think a space marine would stomp a spartan in 1v1 combat.

 Still Standing wrote:
Who ever had their name on the front cover of said publication.

this

And not even tongue-in-cheek

Whatever the physical details of either, they are both (usually) the hero (as in the "protagonist", not necessarily as in the "good guy") of their respective story with a tendency to overcome the odds and win against bigger, faster, meaner enemies (even compared to their enhanced physio and skills).

Spartans are faster than marines by feats. John managed to run approx 60 miles per hour, with a torn achilles heel. That's faster running speed than anything we've actually seen from an Astarte.

Reflexes, same thing. Spartans are clocked in at roughly 20 ms reaction times, and see the rest of the world as moving in slow motion- even bullets. Astarte are faster than regular humans by a mile, but by actual feats there isn't much that supports the notion they could touch a spartan.

I think Marines are a lot stronger, as a Spartan can only lift about 2500 pounds (though, in armor, Spartans can crush elites' skulls with a single punch and stop gravity hammer swings with one hand, which is impressive considering a gravity hammer swing can send a warthog sailing through the air), and more durable outside of armor, thus in a brawl he would probably come out on top.

Weaponry: Base weapons, the Bolter crushes the Spartan's Assault Rifle. The Assault Rifle is essentially an Autogun, and it bounces off Astartes armor fluff wise without them noticing.

If we are comparing speed, or reflexes, of the best Spartan (John) vs the Average Marine, yes, the player character of Halo is going to come out ahead. However, if we compare him to Mephiston, the fastest marine in the game, I'm sure Mephiston would outspeed him. I'm sure Dante, or Marneus Calgar wouldn't have much trouble landing a blow on a spartan. (especially considering they die in droves if they aren't 117.)

I'm fairly certain Spartans don't have extra hearts, lungs, redundant nervous systems, the ability to spit acid, survive extended periods without oxygen...

I'm sure an average Space Marine can make an average Spartan his bitch.

Crazyterran wrote:
(especially considering they die in droves if they aren't 117.)

This statement made it so incredibly clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Crazyterran wrote:
(especially considering they die in droves if they aren't 117.)

I lol'ed hard when I say that statement. No idea what he is talking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crazyterran wrote:
Weaponry: Base weapons, the Bolter crushes the Spartan's Assault Rifle. The Assault Rifle is essentially an Autogun, and it bounces off Astartes armor fluff wise without them noticing.

If we are comparing speed, or reflexes, of the best Spartan (John) vs the Average Marine, yes, the player character of Halo is going to come out ahead. However, if we compare him to Mephiston, the fastest marine in the game, I'm sure Mephiston would outspeed him. I'm sure Dante, or Marneus Calgar wouldn't have much trouble landing a blow on a spartan. (especially considering they die in droves if they aren't 117.)

I'm fairly certain Spartans don't have extra hearts, lungs, redundant nervous systems, the ability to spit acid, survive extended periods without oxygen...

I'm sure an average Space Marine can make an average Spartan his bitch.

Now to actually respond to his post.

What i want to know is who would win if one spartan and one space marine where locked in a room in normal people clothes

Why on earth are you talking about weapons or armor? Read OP


Why is Mephiston faster? Where is that stated anywhere that he is the fastest? (Note I havnt read the Blood Angels codex so if it actually does say that Just say it)

Finally what does extra hearts/lungs/acid spit/survive in space have anything to do with this? You need to completele your thoughts because I know where there WOULD be advantage in a few of these but you cant just say "he likes green clothes, he is better" but add in why it helps. Thats just me nit picking though.


I do have to say im fairly certain that Mariens cant survive in space without oxygen. They arnt magic, they are still human.





To make it clear, I actually WOULD put my money on a Space Marine simply because he could take a greater beating in the end. I feel the two sides are mostly even but a Space Marine simply has the endurance/toughness to do it.

If a Space Marine is
WS 4 BS 4 I 4 and T 4
and an IG is
WS 3 BS 3 I 3 and T 3
I would say a Spartan is
WS 4 BS 4 I 4 and T 3

hivetyrant765 wrote:i usually avoid these sorts of topics, but i have to point out a few things. where the spartans may be roughly the same height as an astartes, the astartes most likely have more mass overall. look at the concept art showing the general size of a marine (cant find it), it shows one without armor. going by the halo games, and the art ive seen, a spartan in full armor isnt as quit as thick as an unarmored marine.

I only know of Jes Goodwin's lifesize drawing he did for the Inquisitor game, and that shows the Space Marine clocking in at about 7 feet in armour. Jes also mentioned on a GW designer's podcast (where he also mentioned this drawing, and admitted he fethed up the scale as it starts at 2' rather than 1') how "it's not about their height, but the width", and how it should be sufficient that they're just really massive and broad. He then joked about them "getting progressively bigger in every book" in reference to certain Black Library novels where some authors feel this one-upsmanship is required to make their story more epic.

prophet102 wrote:Ive seen sources claiming that Astartes can be up to 9' in armor.

I'm sure that you could even find sources that go up to 11' if you just look hard enough.
At least I remember someone bringing this number up in the thread about Space Marine heights we had several months ago.

Kaldor wrote:

Still Standing wrote:Who ever had their name on the front cover of said publication.

Bingo.
There's all sorts of junk flying around about who is capable of what. Marines bench-pressing Landraiders, Spartans flipping tanks and drop-podding without a pod, so on and so forth.
All it really comes down to is who's playground the story is set in.

That about sums it up.

For better or worse, the already epic heroes are often most prone to further exaggeration in tie-in fiction as there will always be people who think this is "cool".

ehh i'll put my vote to the Space marine. hand to hand.. the space marines strength, endurance, and relfexes are on par or significantly greater then the spartan II. In a timed track run.. i'll give it to the Spartan for being able to run 60 mph vs the marines 40+ ish. With weapons and armor.. not even a fair fight, the halo verse weapons/armor are pretty freaking weak vs the 40k ones.

you have to remember a few things about the halo verse.
humans MBT (the scorpion) has a top speed of ~6mph,
their standard issue assault rifle (MA5D) has no ironsight and has a max range of 300m.

the UNSC needs to pick up 500+ year old copy of Jane's Infantry weapons/Armour and Artillery to rebuild weapons for their pathetic military

I think it's a hard one, because both versions, Marine and Spartan, have been blown way out of proportion in different ways- Marines in the durability and aggression angle, and Spartans in the way that they are basically given superhero-level abilities.

I personally think a Space marine could win over a Spartan, especially if they have all their enhanced organs functioning. Because taken together, they are about the same qualities naked, but a fully-functioning marine can spit acid, eat his enemies to gain their basic memories, go into suspended animation, shut off parts of his brain at a time to purportedly go without sleep for weeks, etc.

But then again, Spartans, especially John, seem to have less and less weaknesses as the story goes on.

Simply comparing their enhancements, the Marine all the way.

Spartens simply don't have all the different bonus organs the Marine has. complete list with descriptions here ---> http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gene-seed


The Marine has 2 Hearts and 3 Lungs which gives him a vastly superior circulatory system right off the bat. On top of this he has an increased haemoglobin count due to the Haemastamen organ.

From what I know about Spartens, they don't have anything comperable to this.


Now physique. While a Sparten does have increased muscle mass and strength over a normal human, the size of his body isn't that much bigger than a normal human. A marine has had his body size increased by a significant amount over a Sparten, much less a normal human.

The Sparten's body has crammed as much muscle efficiency and mass onto an above average Human body. A Space Marine has taken the human body, increased its proportions by a huge amount, and then maxed out the muscle mass and efficiency on that improved body. Space Marines are for all intents and purposes a new species. Spartens are still humans.

A Sparten's body doesn't have anything special to heal damage it has taken, IIRC. A marine's blood clots instantly upon contact with air meaning that any wounds that are suffered close instantly and death from blood loss is almost impossable.

Most of what makes a Sparten special is his armor. A marine is special because of his physical augmentation, that is put into the best armor humanity can create.

Spartans and Astartes are about the same size. The Chief is given an approximate weight of 400lbs at 6'10.

Again, it's impossible to compare. The examples of what each are capable of vary wildly. If a Cultist can drop an Astartes, a Spartan would have no problems. If a Grunt can drop a Spartan, an Astartes would walk all over them. If a Spartan can free fall from orbit and walk away from it, nothing a Marine could do to him would injure him. If a Marine clots and heals instantly, there's no way for a Spartan to injure him. Blah blah blah, so on and so forth. The answer really comes down to who is supposed to be the good guy. Because the good guys make it their business to triumph in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.

I can see the Marine pounding the Spartan flat, but just as easily I can see the Spartan twisting the Marine's head off.

We must consider that the Chief only survived the free fall because of his armor. The particular situation presented is without armor.

And even then, the game designers themselves have said that the "Canon" level of Sparten durability to to play Halo on Hard mode.

If you have ever played Halo on Hard mode you will know your shield doesn't last very long at all.

Also every time a spartan re enters the atmosphere they use what ever debris is around em, Ie john stayed in the forerunner ship for a while before jumping and B312 used a satellite.

Reminds me of that end scene in Dark Star where the guy surfs his way to the planet on what was left of his ship.

 Grey Templar wrote:
We must consider that the Chief only survived the free fall because of his armor. The particular situation presented is without armor.

And even then, the game designers themselves have said that the "Canon" level of Sparten durability to to play Halo on Hard mode.

If you have ever played Halo on Hard mode you will know your shield doesn't last very long at all.

The non-existence of a "Hard Mode" and your inability to properly spell Spartan severely weakens your credibility.

Here's your answer

 TheCaptain wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
(especially considering they die in droves if they aren't 117.)

This statement made it so incredibly clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe he is referring to Spartan IIIs? They died in much larger number than the IIs. I know this isn't about the IIIs but that could've been the confusion.