Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors. Burlok Damminson p.322.

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**ingtaer**

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

**Undead_Love-Machine**

Thanks Ingtaer, a while back I tried looking through the old thread for info and it was a little on the large side, this new thread is very helpful

**Voss**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

That's... an interesting approach.
Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

Wish they'd start talking about the actual game, what factions will be playable and what kinds of models we can expect rather than one-sentence blurbs on Imperial provinces.

**scarletsquig**

Looks like a huge emphasis on the Empire civil war, possibly 4 Empire factions as the main focus and a ton of human miniatures that will also just happen to make up the bulk of the cities of sigmar release for AoS?

Getting strong "Horus Heresy, but fantasy" vibes.

I'm just pleased that beastmen are mentioned, although I accept it probably means ungors will change their base size for the 4th time.

**Overread**

Voss wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

That's... an interesting approach.
Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

Wish they'd start talking about the actual game, what factions will be playable and what kinds of models we can expect rather than one-sentence blurbs on Imperial provinces.

Well if the design is still at the sketches phase there aren't any models as yet ready for us to get excited over. Plus GW doesn't want to drop models that might not be on sale for another year or two.

**Cataphract**

What I think is happening is that GW is actually saying:

1. no they are not retconing AOS
2. They are not going to do something like 9th Age and be called out on copying it.
3. Get called out for another Storm of Chaos move by retconing those results - again.
4. They don’t want to make models for characters who are alive in AOS (Alarielle, Neferata, Etcetc). So they are doing a completely new model line for this game.

They are not trying to spite WFB players.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

It’s an attempt to head off interwebular sad acts claiming “Old World Back, AoS Am Be Teh Scrapped”. And you know such sad acts are out there.

**Strg Alt**

scarletsquig wrote:
Looks like a huge emphasis on the Empire civil war, possibly 4 Empire factions as the main focus and a ton of human miniatures that will also just happen to make up the bulk of the cities of sigmar release for AoS?

Getting strong "Horus Heresy, but fantasy" vibes.

I'm just pleased that beastmen are mentioned, although I accept it probably means ungors will change their base size for the 4th time.

There is only one problem here:

Space Marines have appeal no matter what colour they have. Empire state troops are boring from the getgo. I will happily avoid this game with all my non-Empire armies in 9th Age.

**Olthannon**

Looks interesting story wise, I'll be keen to see what happens with models.

They have in earlier articles shown other factions in the game so it's clearly not just Empire.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Article also mentions the infighting has allowed Beastmen, Orcs and Gobbos etc to have a wee rampage unto themselves.

**JimmyWolf87**

scarletsquig wrote:
Looks like a huge emphasis on the Empire civil war, possibly 4 Empire factions as the main focus and a ton of human miniatures that will also just happen to make up the bulk of the cities of sigmar release for AoS?

Getting strong "Horus Heresy, but fantasy" vibes.

I'm just pleased that beastmen are mentioned, although I accept it probably means ungors will change their base size for the 4th time.

The focus on the Imperial Civil War has been sort of obvious from as soon as the time-period it's set was made apparent. I do think it will carry quite a bit of the early releases and there could well be crossover with the dawn-crusade (or whatever it's called) stuff. I'm not sure it's going to be all Empire though, there's clearly been some substantive work done on Bretonnia, in terms of the art and lore if nothing else. The articles have often made reference to the unprecedented amount of work that's gone into The Old World project; much of that could just be marketing spiel but I'd hope for at least the same level of releases as Heresy 2.0 got at launch and hopefully that can be spread across multiple factions. It's not like some couldn't work as dual-purpose kits for both ToW and AoS; Chaos/Skaven/Vampires/Lizardmen/Daughters of Khaine etc. could all have some updated sets that would just need a base change.

Regardless, even if all we get is some actually decent Empire sets (the artwork in the recent article is a good start) then my inner Mordhiemer will be delighted at least.

**nathan2004**

Voss wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

That's... an interesting approach.
Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

Wish they'd start talking about the actual game, what factions will be playable and what kinds of models we can expect rather than one-sentence blurbs on Imperial provinces.

To me, I read the reminder of the End Times happening as an effort to promote unity between AoS players and WHTOW fans. How the 2 games will be linked (if any such connection is actually planned) hasn’t been revealed yet but it’s no secret there is or has been at the very least a lot of contention between WHFB and AoS players. Goes without saying the survival of the game depends not just on sales but if those 2 groups can coexist beyond cannibalization fears.

**kodos**

of course there is a link between TOW and AoS
same as there is for Horus Heresy and 40k, the setting of one game is 10.000 years in the past of the other game and it remind people that AoS is the future of the TOW setting and not its own thing
if this is good, we will see
(did GW also advertise the HH game with "Horus will be defeated and everything is already done"?)

The Grand County of Osterland
Ruled from the great city of Middenheim by Count Sigismund Ulric, Osterland is home to the Wolf Emperors of the north, fierce devotees of Ulric.

Did I miss something?
So either this is a very bad typo, the Designer have no clue of the background, or we already see the first changes to the setting making a much larger split-off Empire of the North

**Tsagualsa**

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:
Looks like a huge emphasis on the Empire civil war, possibly 4 Empire factions as the main focus and a ton of human miniatures that will also just happen to make up the bulk of the cities of sigmar release for AoS?

Getting strong "Horus Heresy, but fantasy" vibes.

I'm just pleased that beastmen are mentioned, although I accept it probably means ungors will change their base size for the 4th time.

The focus on the Imperial Civil War has been sort of obvious from as soon as the time-period it's set was made apparent. I do think it will carry quite a bit of the early releases and there could well be crossover with the dawn-crusade (or whatever it's called) stuff. I'm not sure it's going to be all Empire though, there's clearly been some substantive work done on Bretonnia, in terms of the art and lore if nothing else. The articles have often made reference to the unprecedented amount of work that's gone into The Old World project; much of that could just be marketing spiel but I'd hope for at least the same level of releases as Heresy 2.0 got at launch and hopefully that can be spread across multiple factions. It's not like some couldn't work as dual-purpose kits for both ToW and AoS; Chaos/Skaven/Vampires/Lizardmen/Daughters of Khaine etc. could all have some updated sets that would just need a base change.

Regardless, even if all we get is some actually decent Empire sets (the artwork in the recent article is a good start) then my inner Mordhiemer will be delighted at least.

Somehow the stuff they presented so far feels much more like the background hype for a roleplaying setting rather than background for a mass-battle game. More skirmishy, close-combatty, less cannons and dragons and giants.

**Voss**

nathan2004 wrote:
Voss wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

That's... an interesting approach.
Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

Wish they'd start talking about the actual game, what factions will be playable and what kinds of models we can expect rather than one-sentence blurbs on Imperial provinces.

To me, I read the reminder of the End Times happening as an effort to promote unity between AoS players and WHTOW fans. How the 2 games will be linked (if any such connection is actually planned) hasn’t been revealed yet but it’s no secret there is or has been at the very least a lot of contention between WHFB and AoS players. Goes without saying the survival of the game depends not just on sales but if those 2 groups can coexist beyond cannibalization fears.

That's not a view I've ever considered. Reminding people of schisms doesn't, in my experience, promote unity.

---
@Tsagualsa-- same. They mention the upcoming chaos invasion, but that feels like almost entirely background. The mention of beasts and O&G makes me hope I can bring out my beastmen army (3000 points fully painted, plus some extras I never got around to after the end, though I won't be rebasing ever again), but I'm not sure it isn't window dressing for the skirmishes of the four emperors, or whatever. I'd really like it if they just told me one way or the other.

**NinthMusketeer**

Cataphract wrote:
What I think is happening is that GW is actually saying:

1. no they are not retconing AOS
2. They are not going to do something like 9th Age and be called out on copying it.
3. Get called out for another Storm of Chaos move by retconing those results - again.
4. They don’t want to make models for characters who are alive in AOS (Alarielle, Neferata, Etcetc). So they are doing a completely new model line for this game.

They are not trying to spite WFB players.

Yeah that is entirely the impression I got. Good idea for them to do that.

**kendoka**

Voss wrote:

Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

+1
For me, the only way for this game to feel relevant is if I just ignore the aos-related (and clearly fictional) ”future” of the world (the same way as forgetting about ever seeing the last Aliens movies is the only way to appreciate the first ones again). I.e. treating ”fantasy in space” aka AOS as ”The world that will never be”.

**Gert**

It's an unwinnable situation. Either GW says nothing and then clickbait channels keep promoting the idea that AoS is dead which feeds back to customers both new and old or GW says "shut up AoS is still happening" and the clickbait channels whinge that GW is bullying WHFB players which can impact the return for those legacy players.

As for the non-Empire factions, if you think of it like HH the first 4 Legions and Mechanicum came first in Book 1 and by Book 9 we had all 18 Legions, Talons, Mechanicum, Knights, Solar Aux, Militia, and Daemons. Each one was tied to specific battles or campaigns where they played a key role (Prospero for the Talons or Signus where Daemons first showed up). Could be that if there is only the Empire + Brettonia on release it could see the other factions released later on.

**tneva82**

Voss wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

That's... an interesting approach.
Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

Wish they'd start talking about the actual game, what factions will be playable and what kinds of models we can expect rather than one-sentence blurbs on Imperial provinces.

No more pointless than hh, fb was, 40k etc.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Gert wrote:
It's an unwinnable situation. Either GW says nothing and then clickbait channels keep promoting the idea that AoS is dead which feeds back to customers both new and old or GW says "shut up AoS is still happening" and the clickbait channels whinge that GW is bullying WHFB players which can impact the return for those legacy players.

As for the non-Empire factions, if you think of it like HH the first 4 Legions and Mechanicum came first in Book 1 and by Book 9 we had all 18 Legions, Talons, Mechanicum, Knights, Solar Aux, Militia, and Daemons. Each one was tied to specific battles or campaigns where they played a key role (Prospero for the Talons or Signus where Daemons first showed up). Could be that if there is only the Empire + Brettonia on release it could see the other factions released later on.

I guess it depends on whether they’re dusting off the old moulds or not.

As discussed at length before, there are pros and cons to doing that. Here’s a selection.

Pros

I can dig out my Ogres and get playing straight away. As can anyone with a vintage force once they get rules (I suspect we can expect at least Get You By rules at launch)

This leads to Instant Player Base. A visibly played game is self-advertising. It may even tempt folk who walked when AoS dropped to get back in, buying a new force.

Cons

The Pros above don’t necessarily translate into decent enough sales, especially if the flagship forces don’t particularly require fresh investment, as you’re then pinning hopes on any updated sculpts being Irresistible.

So you may end up with a widely played game that just isn’t bringing in the pennies.

But I still think they’ll go for that. It keeps production costs down, as you don’t need to reproduce everything from the ground up, allowing you to focus on Stuff That Needed Doing 15 Years Ago, Let Alone Now (such as, I dunno, to take pick one at random, Imperial Knightly Orders. Yeeesh!), and Oooh That’s New/Not Been Seen For Decades (city specific Greatsword equivalents, War Wagons) stuff, to part those with existing collections from their cash monies.

**tneva82**

Strg Alt wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:
Looks like a huge emphasis on the Empire civil war, possibly 4 Empire factions as the main focus and a ton of human miniatures that will also just happen to make up the bulk of the cities of sigmar release for AoS?

Getting strong "Horus Heresy, but fantasy" vibes.

I'm just pleased that beastmen are mentioned, although I accept it probably means ungors will change their base size for the 4th time.

There is only one problem here:

Space Marines have appeal no matter what colour they have. Empire state troops are boring from the getgo. I will happily avoid this game with all my non-Empire armies in 9th Age.

Boring to you. Just like i know plenty to whom marines are boring as hell.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

Why would anyone ever read from the old world project that age of sigmar was dead?

They aren't competing games. Age of sigmar isn't and has never been a substitute for warhammer fantasy battles. The two games have completely different rule sets. It's part of why some people had (or have) such an issue with age of sigmar, because they flushed WFB and didn't replace it with something remotely analogous.

**tneva82**

kendoka wrote:
Voss wrote:

Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

+1
For me, the only way for this game to feel relevant is if I just ignore the aos-related (and clearly fictional) ”future” of the world (the same way as forgetting about ever seeing the last Aliens movies is the only way to appreciate the first ones again). I.e. treating ”fantasy in space” aka AOS as ”The world that will never be”.

So hh is pointless as we know result?

40k is pointless as we know for sure in the end nothing is alive?

**chaos0xomega**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Gert wrote:
It's an unwinnable situation. Either GW says nothing and then clickbait channels keep promoting the idea that AoS is dead which feeds back to customers both new and old or GW says "shut up AoS is still happening" and the clickbait channels whinge that GW is bullying WHFB players which can impact the return for those legacy players.

As for the non-Empire factions, if you think of it like HH the first 4 Legions and Mechanicum came first in Book 1 and by Book 9 we had all 18 Legions, Talons, Mechanicum, Knights, Solar Aux, Militia, and Daemons. Each one was tied to specific battles or campaigns where they played a key role (Prospero for the Talons or Signus where Daemons first showed up). Could be that if there is only the Empire + Brettonia on release it could see the other factions released later on.

I guess it depends on whether they’re dusting off the old moulds or not.

Beyond a Made to Order offer to celebrate the release of TOW or whatever, as well as potentially some very specific kits released shortly before The End Times, I don't see them using the existing kits as the basis for The Old Worlds model range. Those old kits do not meet nu-GW's standards for kit design, quality, or even scale. I suspect you'll see things like Empire Demigryph Knights and Tomb Kings Sepulchral Stalkers or Necrosphinxes make a return on a permanent basis, I wouldn't expect to see older kits like Bretonnian Knights or Dwarf Thunderers to make a comeback, and I imagine that the older kits which survive in Age of Sigmar as core parts of the range (such as Skaven clanrats or Dark Elf Wyches) will remain there rather than becoming cross-over kits.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Dev Diary article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/

That's... an interesting approach.
Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

Wish they'd start talking about the actual game, what factions will be playable and what kinds of models we can expect rather than one-sentence blurbs on Imperial provinces.

They just told you. 4 Empire factions (as was foretold by everyone with common sense), Orcs & Goblins, Beastmen, Chaos invaders, and hints of Bretonnia and Tomb Kings.

Strg Alt wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:
Looks like a huge emphasis on the Empire civil war, possibly 4 Empire factions as the main focus and a ton of human miniatures that will also just happen to make up the bulk of the cities of sigmar release for AoS?
Getting strong "Horus Heresy, but fantasy" vibes.
I'm just pleased that beastmen are mentioned, although I accept it probably means ungors will change their base size for the 4th time.

There is only one problem here:
Space Marines have appeal no matter what colour they have. Empire state troops are boring from the getgo.

Speak for yourself, I like the aesthetic of Empire state troops and feel they have more room for creativity in their paint scheme on a model-by-model basis (i.e. as long as you hold to a consistent color palette you are free to paint different blocking and patterns on each individual model within a unit, whereas the expectation with Space Marines is that a chapters livery is fairly standardized and consistent across the entire chapter, with only minor variations from company to company and unit to unit).

kendoka wrote:
Voss wrote:

Not sure that multiple reminders that the End Times happened, this world is dead and all this is pointless is the best way to drum up excitement for the upcoming game.

+1
For me, the only way for this game to feel relevant is if I just ignore the aos-related (and clearly fictional) ”future” of the world (the same way as forgetting about ever seeing the last Aliens movies is the only way to appreciate the first ones again). I.e. treating ”fantasy in space” aka AOS as ”The world that will never be”.

And this is why they are making it clear that Age of Sigmar is the future of the setting and its unavoidable and integral to the setting of the world. Too many WHFB fans, here on dakka, in the Old World facebook group, etc. have spent a ridiculous amount of time arguing that GW was going to fork the timeline and retcon the End Times out of existence/move it into an alternate timeline, etc. I don't doubt that GW is aware of this, and this is clearly them saying: "Age of Sigmar is here to stay and it is the future of the setting you are in, there will be no continuation of the WHFB setting or the storyline past the events of The End Times, because that continuation IS Age of Sigmar.

**Mr Morden**

Some cool new pics

**Gert**

I love the Huntsmen so much. It's just so dumb that a General will gather elite knights, wizards, masses of trained infantry, and then some dudes hunting pigeons who just came along for the fun of it.

**Mr Morden**

Gert wrote:
I love the Huntsmen so much. It's just so dumb that a General will gather elite knights, wizards, masses of trained infantry, and then some dudes hunting pigeons who just came along for the fun of it.

A good general will def bring scouts

**Gert**

I mean yeah but imagining them as just some guys on a day trip looking for some premium grouse then getting conscripted to fight vampires and minotaurs is funnier.

**Mozzamanx**

chaos0xomega wrote:

Beyond a Made to Order offer to celebrate the release of TOW or whatever, as well as potentially some very specific kits released shortly before The End Times, I don't see them using the existing kits as the basis for The Old Worlds model range. Those old kits do not meet nu-GW's standards for kit design, quality, or even scale.

This is exactly why the previewed Tomb Kings Chariot art did more harm than good in my eyes, because it is very obviously based on the 6th edition kit. It is almost one-to-one in it's details from the design of the front icon, to the side-mounted javelins, to the placement of the bandages and bangles on the crew. This is in stark contrast to how they are presented in both the 8th edition artwork and in TWW2. For example, later incarnations have light barding on the horses and proper yokes.
That the artwork so closely resembles the 6th edition kit suggests to me that it is either going to be a re-release of the old boxed set, or the later design changes are being undone for whatever reason. Either is bad because the floating yokes and naked horses annoy me to no end and I consider the updated designs to be a massive improvement.

EDIT: Please see the spoilered images for a demonstration of how the Chariots (should) have changed over time:

6th Edition Plastic kit

Spoiler:

8th Edition artwork

Spoiler:

Portrayal in Total War: Warhammer 2

Spoiler:

And finally, the previewed TOW artwork

Spoiler: