Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey All,

There are a couple of instances in which a unit needs to Dark Pact in order to trigger CP regeneration. Abaddon as well as the Eye of Tzeentch come to mind.

Dark Pact: Each time a unit with this ability is picked to shoot or fight, it can make a Dark Pact. If you do its weapons gain either LETHAL HITS or SUSTAINED HITS 1 until the end of the phase. Each time a unit makes a Dark Pact, after it resolves its attacks, it has to take a Leadership test; if it fails, then the unit takes D3 mortal wounds.


However, what if your weapons can’t reach anything and there’s no one in close combat? I have been playing it as though they can still Dark Pact (taking the risk on the leadership mortal wounds roll) but still generating the CP. Thoughts?

tl/dr: Can a unit “shoot” and “resolve attacks” if there are no eligible targets?

Thanks!

If you don’t select that unit to shoot, then you don’t resolve attacks so no test needed.

If you select that unit to shoot you need to test.

So if no one is in range just don’t select them to shoot and no risk of damage.

If you need to select them to trigger something else like CP regen, then you’d need to test and risk damage.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If you don’t select that unit to shoot, then you don’t resolve attacks so no test needed.

If you select that unit to shoot you need to test.

So if no one is in range just don’t select them to shoot and no risk of damage.

If you need to select them to trigger something else like CP regen, then you’d need to test and risk damage.

With a leadership of 5, Abaddon is statistically unlikely to fail his Dark Pacts leadership test, so if I can do a Dark Pacts test for the CP regen I'm going to do it every turn. My concern is that it's not fair to regen it on him if he's rolling solo and couldn't should or fight and thus not be able to perform the requisite Dark Pacts. It hasn't come up yet, but I feel like someone at some point might be like "wait, CP regen? for what? Dark Pacts? He didn't shoot or fight!"

...you get the drift.

First the easy one:
The Fight Phase
Units not eligible to Fight cannot be selected to fight and therefore cannot use Dark Pacts in the Fight Phase. If you didn't charge and are not within Engagement Range of an enemy unit, you simply cannot select the unit to fight and then use Dark Pacts.

Now the harder one:
The Shooting Phase
A unit is eligible to shoot if it did not Advance or Fall Back in the Movement Phase and is not Locked in Combat. If that is the case, it may be selected to shoot and therefore can use Dark Pacts, even if there are no targets for it to shoot. This can be expanded if the unit has Assault Weapons or Pistols.

So, just randomly rolling Dark Pacts every time the Shooting and Fight Phase comes up is not legal. There are a few checkpoints you need to pass in each phase to allow it to be legal.

Chaos Space Marines can only worship their gods under certain very specific battlefield conditions - after all, Tzeench doesn't want to hear it if you aren't reaping the enemy with your axe, and Khorne's done with your gak if you are locked in combat without a pistol, nerd.

 alextroy wrote:
First the easy one:
The Fight Phase
Units not eligible to Fight cannot be selected to fight and therefore cannot use Dark Pacts in the Fight Phase. If you didn't charge and are not within Engagement Range of an enemy unit, you simply cannot select the unit to fight and then use Dark Pacts.

Now the harder one:
The Shooting Phase
A unit is eligible to shoot if it did not Advance or Fall Back in the Movement Phase and is not Locked in Combat. If that is the case, it may be selected to shoot and therefore can use Dark Pacts, even if there are no targets for it to shoot. This can be expanded if the unit has Assault Weapons or Pistols.

So, just randomly rolling Dark Pacts every time the Shooting and Fight Phase comes up is not legal. There are a few checkpoints you need to pass in each phase to allow it to be legal.

Thank you, I believe you're on point. Sounds like Abby needs to have some long range shooting in an accompanying bodyguard to do this CP regen if he is in the backfield!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Chaos Space Marines can only worship their gods under certain very specific battlefield conditions - after all, Tzeench doesn't want to hear it if you aren't reaping the enemy with your axe, and Khorne's done with your gak if you are locked in combat without a pistol, nerd.

haha, this is the answer.

Kangarupe wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
First the easy one:
The Fight Phase
Units not eligible to Fight cannot be selected to fight and therefore cannot use Dark Pacts in the Fight Phase. If you didn't charge and are not within Engagement Range of an enemy unit, you simply cannot select the unit to fight and then use Dark Pacts.

Now the harder one:
The Shooting Phase
A unit is eligible to shoot if it did not Advance or Fall Back in the Movement Phase and is not Locked in Combat. If that is the case, it may be selected to shoot and therefore can use Dark Pacts, even if there are no targets for it to shoot. This can be expanded if the unit has Assault Weapons or Pistols.

So, just randomly rolling Dark Pacts every time the Shooting and Fight Phase comes up is not legal. There are a few checkpoints you need to pass in each phase to allow it to be legal.

Thank you, I believe you're on point. Sounds like Abby needs to have some long range shooting in an accompanying bodyguard to do this CP regen if he is in the backfield! backfield!

No need to have a weapon in range or an eligible target. There is actually a note in the Rules Commentary on a unit being eligible to shoot even if it has no ranged weapons.

 alextroy wrote:

Kangarupe wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
First the easy one:
The Fight Phase
Units not eligible to Fight cannot be selected to fight and therefore cannot use Dark Pacts in the Fight Phase. If you didn't charge and are not within Engagement Range of an enemy unit, you simply cannot select the unit to fight and then use Dark Pacts.

Now the harder one:
The Shooting Phase
A unit is eligible to shoot if it did not Advance or Fall Back in the Movement Phase and is not Locked in Combat. If that is the case, it may be selected to shoot and therefore can use Dark Pacts, even if there are no targets for it to shoot. This can be expanded if the unit has Assault Weapons or Pistols.

So, just randomly rolling Dark Pacts every time the Shooting and Fight Phase comes up is not legal. There are a few checkpoints you need to pass in each phase to allow it to be legal.

Thank you, I believe you're on point. Sounds like Abby needs to have some long range shooting in an accompanying bodyguard to do this CP regen if he is in the backfield! backfield!

No need to have a weapon in range or an eligible target. There is actually a note in the Rules Commentary on a unit being eligible to shoot even if it has no ranged weapons.

I know the very passage you refer to "Eligible to Shoot (when not equipped with ranged weapons)" But I think that's just so unarmed combatants (e.g. possessed) can do secondary objectives like "Cleanse" or similar situation. Since Abaddon has guns, I think he (and any legionnaires or terminators he may be leading) would be excluded from that.

The rules for Shooting Phase do not require a unit to have a valid target to be selected to shoot. That just prevents them from actually shooting. Dark Pacts just requires you to be selected to shoot, it does not require you to actually shoot.