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A questions have arisen in games - can you do a Dark Pact as part of Overwatch?

The DP rules say they can be used “each time a unite is selected to shoot or fight”.

The rules commentary says, on ‘Out-of-phase rules’, “Some rules allow a model or unit to move, shoot, charge or fight outside of the normal turn sequence. For example, the Fire Overwatch Stratagem enables a unit to shoot in the opponent’s turn as if it were your Shooting phase. When using out-of-phase rules to perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase.”

Dark Pacts do not specify a phase, they are simply available when selecting a unit to shoot.

Is there any reason they wouldn’t be useable as part of overwatch?

No. Free to use as it's phase free rule.

tneva82 wrote:
No. Free to use as it's phase free rule.

God, that's going to make games very interesting... thanks for clarifying this!

Possibly not - I wouldn't open up this can of worms again. But if you look back through the threads for out of phase rules this ground has been gone over multiple times in other rules interactions.

The answer is dependent on how you define "normally triggered in that phase" and while some will erroneously claim to magically know the answer as GW see it the truth is the line is ambiguous and can be interpreted as broader than rules that name a phase. Which is probably why you brought it up.

Except this isn't phase specific. It doesn't matter what phase it is. You got picked to shoot/fight you do it.

Out of phase rule applibs to rules that say "in your shooting phase...".


See mention of phase in dark pact? If not you can't claim out of phase rule applies.

Go on. Point ANY phase that's mentioned in dark pact.

Show it. Prove it.

At its broadest definition

"normally triggered in that phase"



"each time a unite is selected to shoot or fight”.

Overwatch is out of phase shooting.

Dark pact triggers off of that shooting .

and dark pact would normaly be expected to trigger in the shooting phase ergo it comes under the ospices of the out of phase shooting rule



It has been covered in multiple threads now that nowhere does it specify an out of phase rules must name the phase - that is an interpretation some players use but nowhere does it define that in the RAW - if it did it would be better written and not ambiguous.

The vibe I’m getting is ‘RAW it’s a go, but this might now be RAI and a future rules clarification (and TO decisions) may change this and some opponents may dispute it’

FWIW I’ve been finding it very powerful, it effectively doubles your OW, I’ve won a game by getting loads of Melta hits out of it and if you’ve got an eye of Tzeench in the unit it almost always reimburses the CP.

Raw it's go, and as there is no phase limitation even hinted at (no "normally") any claim that overwatch isnt rai is shaky as all feth

 lindsay40k wrote:
The vibe I’m getting is ‘RAW it’s a go, but this might now be RAI and a future rules clarification (and TO decisions) may change this and some opponents may dispute it’

FWIW I’ve been finding it very powerful, it effectively doubles your OW, I’ve won a game by getting loads of Melta hits out of it and if you’ve got an eye of Tzeench in the unit it almost always reimburses the CP.

Wait... it still only crits on 6s though as dictated by OW strat...right?

Normally, a Nurgle/Tz Dark Pack shooting unit crits on 5s, but on OW they can only ever crit on 6s.

At least, that's how I understood it.

 whembly wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
The vibe I’m getting is ‘RAW it’s a go, but this might now be RAI and a future rules clarification (and TO decisions) may change this and some opponents may dispute it’

FWIW I’ve been finding it very powerful, it effectively doubles your OW, I’ve won a game by getting loads of Melta hits out of it and if you’ve got an eye of Tzeench in the unit it almost always reimburses the CP.

Wait... it still only crits on 6s though as dictated by OW strat...right?

Normally, a Nurgle/Tz Dark Pack shooting unit crits on 5s, but on OW they can only ever crit on 6s.

At least, that's how I understood it.

Yeah, marks certainly don’t matter, it seems the majority reading is ‘DP OW doubles your natural sixes’.

Crit's on 5+ is irrelevant as you don't hit on critical hits but by unmodified 6.

1 shot weapons do double due to extra hit scove but swingy.

Dark Pacts is any time a unit is selected to shoot or fight. No mention of phases.
You can theoretically activate Dark Pacts 4 times in a game turn for a single unit (your shooting + combat, Overwatch, enemy turn combat).
Anyone arguing its "phase specific" is objectively wrong.

I’ve always considered it good to go in overwatch, its… *ok*, worth taking the mortal risk for? 🤷🏼‍♂️ Good for Nurgle high powered weapon extra shots, or high volume auto wounding tzeentch though!