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So I picked up some old Epic models to use in a small Squat BFG force. Probably count as Demiurge/Tau I'll see how they look when I get them. It's gotten me thinking about what a BFG/Space Fleet Squat/Space Dwarf force might look like.

If I was doing a blue sky force, sculpting models and working from scratch my first thought is Strongholds floating in space, either literal floating castles or carved asteroids. They'd be tough as nails with lots of close in weapons and maybe one super lance style attack for long range. But they'd also be about as fast and maneuverable are you expect a rock to be.

Ascetically I always liked the steampunk look of Epic Squats like the Overlord Gunship and the Land Train.


(credit to Roadkill Zombie)

Maybe with some of the funkier Space Fleet ships.






Force projection would be accomplished by fighters and bombers, young Space Dwarves flying as fast as they can, an analogy to the old Squat bikes and trikes.

There's also be large ponderous cruisers/battleships/factory ships that are only slightly faster than the Strongholds. They'd look like early 1900s dreadnaughts, maybe with industrial elements mixed in.

But I'd like ideas, what might Battlefleet Squat look like in your imagination?

Well, the overall aesthetic and equipment approach seems to be rugged and practical, with much of it being developed from industrial equipment.

The voidcraft of the Leagues of Votann Fleets tend toward enormous size and redoutable build, with even smaller vessels such as the Bastion-class and Stronghold-class Commerce Vessels used for mining and other mercantile activities at least matching most of the other starfaring species' cruisers for armoured bulk, shielding and sheer firepower.

And that’s how they’re largely described. Even non-combat vessels are vast, and well armed.

I think you could compare them to pioneers in approach. Or at least competent, sensible pioneers *glares at his homeland’s attempts to colonise Panama*. You have to be ready for pretty much anything. Which means even their mercantile and industrial vessels are more than capable of self defence..

And when you can build something like this?



Who knows what your dedicated battleships might be capable of?

Demiurg are now canonically a League of Votann. Therefore a BFG Demiurg fleet is an example of a League of Votann fleet. Solution: Use the BFG Demiurg list

If MDGs quote above is from current LoV lore, it literally references the BFG Demiurg vessels.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bastion_Class_Commerce_Vessel



https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Stronghold_Class_Commerce_Vessel

Interesting that these two are considered to belong to the *smaller* types of Votann vessel, mind - presumably their largest and most self-sufficient ships would rival space hulks for sheer mass.

The voidcraft of the Leagues of Votann Fleets tend toward enormous size and redoutable build, with even smaller vessels such as the Bastion-class and Stronghold-class Commerce Vessels used for mining and other mercantile activities at least matching most of the other starfaring species' cruisers for armoured bulk, shielding and sheer firepower.

Great Scott!

The Stronghold is a "smaller vessel"?!? That thing is already bigger than an Imperial Battleship, where the SOLID GOLD EAGLE is already larger than an Imperial Star Destroyer or Colonial Battlestar.

I do like the Demiurge fleet design, it manages to suggest an oil refinery in space rather than a conventional space fleet. Unfortunately they're long OOP and I don't want to know how many kidneys Ebay wants for them.

So thinking of alternatives. Lots of companies make various flying boxes and triangles. I'm wondering what would make a ship look Space Dwarvish...

Another contender.



From the Space Dreadnought 3000 line, an ore transport.

https://www.kallistra.co.uk/index.php?page=22

Rumours the ship in the art was made from Galactus’ left knacker remain unfounded.

But what a piece of artwork. It really tells you something about their singlemindedness.

Now of course, we don’t know the size of the object it’s about mine. But it’s clearly at least a moon, and not an asteroid.

And it’s also something I’d love to see applied to a Space Hulk. Whether technological or Ursus Claw equivalent, it must have some way of securing its prey. Apply that to a Space Hulk, send in teams to clear it and shutdown any active warp engines then….take your sweet time prising it apart to obtain more or less whatever you want.

Most tantalising? It seems the Votann have actually identified whatever gene or mutation it is which specifically triggers psychic capability. Because they’re birthed to order, and there are no reports* of unexpected psychic ability.

*at least, so we’re told!


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As for their dedicated warships?

I get the impression in my head of something like the USS Defiant, where the Peace Loving Hippies of the situation decide “what we really need here is a ship dedicated to wrecking face”.

Like the Bastion and Stronghold, regular Federation ships whilst not expressly designed for it, aren’t exactly a pushover in a scrap. And the Defiant class shows what happens when technologically proficient people really, really want to give you a kicking.

I’m thinking even destroyer class equivalents being very heavily armed compared to similar sized vessels. Possibly making side use of boarding torpedoes, as the Kin are naturally suited to close confines combat, and each being knowledgable enough to know where to head to scuttle an enemy vessel (engines, warp reactor, ammo storage etc) with minimal effort.

Iracundus wrote:
Demiurg are now canonically a League of Votann. Therefore a BFG Demiurg fleet is an example of a League of Votann fleet. Solution: Use the BFG Demiurg list

This. That said, knowing almost nothing about the demiurg, here's what I'd expect their fleets/fighting style to look like:

* We know they use powerful grav-catapults to launch rocks across long distances. I like the idea of their "civillian" ships consequently having powerful tractor beings that they use to fling rocks and debris around the battlefield to act as both weapons and cover. Could also possibly be useful for reverse-boarding actions (pulling in enemy ships) if they really like their odds at winning a close engagement.

* Waste not want not. Spending a lot of time, resources, and cargo space to make and haul around physical ammunition makes sense for humans and orks, but maybe not for LoV. I'd expect a higher number of energy weapons (ion weapons?) filling roles normally covered by ballistic weapons. On a related noted, conversion beamers seem like they'd be great at void combat (stronger the farther the target is) provided they don't rely on the presence of matter to function. (I don't know how the lore says conversion beamers work.)

* Scaled-up hardened void armor approaches to staying safe. Basically multiple layers of vacuum-sealed ablative armor and extensive use of sealable bulkheads. Anything short of a a lance is probably just tearing into empty hallways pre-sealed to avoid atmosphere loss. Any boarders are going to have to use meltas to cut through door after door, and the majority of the LoV infantry is probably just waiting to be send on anti-boarding actions. (Why risk your people to notoriously dangerous boarding actions when you can use your vessel's size and the homefield advantage to just mop up well-contained boarders once the battle in the void is dealt with?)

* Bad at acceleration. Maybe good at changing direction? LoV don't seem to put a ton of stock in speed, but their 40k rules suggest they're also hard to slow down. I imagine their advanced grav tech makes it easier to pull off aggressive turns and lowers the likelihood that something will break when they do so.

Does that resemble the demiurg rules at all?

These are the rules from Armada (there is another ship in the Compendium, the Citadel class, but it is visually identical to a Bastion). Armada was released as a free PDF download so I think it is fine to share this.

Lovely discussion and brainstorming! I'll just chip in with a couple of official artwork references for the time being, due to lack of time at the moment. Plus a doodle of my own of relevance.

There is also at least one more artwork depicting hammerhead Leagues of Votann starships in the codex (mimicked in the bottom doodle), and background touching on starship weaponry in the same tome, including drill torpedoes. The codex must be warmly recommended for its background writing. I do not have it with me at the moment, otherwise I could have gotten the mentioned artwork pictured and up here as well.

First, Ork Blood Axe staring at Squat starship, by Tony Hough:



Second, Kin Hold. Artist unknown:



In this drawing I tried to pull together all official BFG-sized Squat/Demiurg/Leagues of Votann starship and atmospheric flyer depictions in the sky:

If you prefer the earlier squats to the Votann, consider seeing if there's any proxy Man o' War dwarf vessels you could scifi up .

Thanks for posting that, I knew there was a reason I thought Squat ships should have a giant head on the front.

It's a shame Space Fleet never got around to Squats and Orks, it was just a tad more insane than BFG and I can only imagine what we would have gotten.

Mantic's Armada game have something close, maybe I'll try them.



Man O War Dwarfs were very steampunk which at the time was transgressive but aren't very fantasy like if that makes sense. They still might be a good basis.

Plus BarnEbiss' 3D printed Dwarf fleet is already out there.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/779464.page

Re picture: I’m more amazed that Orks were able to make (1) something transparent (the window) and (2) something not tacked together with rivets (the rest of the ship…er…but also the window).

Good luck with your project. I’m interested to see how it progresses.

Orks are just as likely to repurpose a captured vessel as muck about building their own.

They’ll all look the same eventually

Also, that particular Ork may be a Blood Axe based on the crossed axes glyph, so it is quite possible they are part of a mercenary band on the ship of a different species.

 Fugazi wrote:
Re picture: I’m more amazed that Orks were able to make (1) something transparent (the window) and (2) something not tacked together with rivets (the rest of the ship…er…but also the window).

Good luck with your project. I’m interested to see how it progresses.

The Demiurge rules are pretty much what I would want for a Squat fleet so that's my basis and since there's only 3 classes it's not a real difficulty.

Plan is the Space Fleet Drill Ships (dictator?) as the smallest Demiurge class, then Epic Overlord Airships as the Citadel, and then 2 tandem Goliath factory ships as the Stronghold.

While simultaneously ordering some 3D printed Demiurge ships.

Should be a fun little project as I return to SPACE! for 2024.

Two more contenders, if anyone is interested, from Spartan's defunct Uncharted Seas game.

Iron Dwarves and Shroud Mages were two steamy-punky factions. The models are a bit plain for my taste and of course only go to the waterline so you have to build some sort of bottom. They they have potential as a starting point.

I already used Shroud Mages for my BFG orks and they are good models.

True, those ranges fit in fine. Convert a greebly underside for them.

I'm familiar with probably all fantasy Dwarf fleets out there, but not science fiction ranges.

Are there any hammer-shaped ships out there fit for BFG Squat duty?

I've got half a mind of drawing an ornamental Rogue Trader style take on it.

Another link!

https://cults3d.com/en/users/Fusion_Shipyards/3d-models

Fusion Shipyard just did some Squat-inspired ships.

I quite like those. Compact, and pugnacious looking. More close range brawlers than worrying about fancy flying.

The double decking of the guns really works me. Minimum profile, maximum firepower. In a straight broadside exchange at staggering ranges, that really works in my minds eye.