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I've loved tabletop wargaming for decades, and through that time I have played everything from 40k and Fantasy, through the quaintest cottage skirmish systems. I sincerely love soooo much about this hobby, have thousands and thousands of minis, etc. The problem is, in the last few years that passion is diminishing, and it feels bad.

A large part of this is burnout. I LOVE list-building, and diversity in my games, and get easily bored playing the same army for too long. Problem is, companies like GW have aggressively targeted those personal weaknesses and failings, to a point where I own a dozen 5000+ point 40k armies (for example), but I don't even actually like playing the game anymore.

Lately I had been having some fun playing a boardgame called Commands and Colors: Napoleonics. It hit me that the ease of opening a box, minimal setup, and just getting to the gaming itself HUGELY increased my fun! Cutting the prep easily overcame the lost aesthetic appear, and I was still making tactical choices, etc... and scratching the itch.

So humbly, I wanted to reach out and ask for help finding the right game for me with the following criteria, in an effort to spark enthusiasm in a hobby which has meant so much to me.

My ideal game...

- Can be a board-game or miniatures wargame, though minis are preferred (but cardboard isn't a dealbreaker!)
- Has numerous armies and units available, allowing me to switch lists/playstyles often
- Has minimal prep. Pre-assembled models, or cardboard chits let me go from buying a fresh new unit to playing it, almost immediately
- Has modest setup, so there isn't an hour from setting up a game, to playing it. Modest or abstract terrain possibly?

Subject matter is irrelevant, so go nuts genre-wise.

I feel like good examples might include A Song of Ice and Fire, Star Wars Armada/X-wing, or even stuff like the dead/OOP Battlelore 2nd Edition.

Please help guys, as I have been feeling super down on game time as of late.

MESBG is a great game. Most of the models are about 20 years old and in 1 or 2 pieces. Way less detail than what GW currently does so much much faster to paint. Standard army size is about 30-45 models.

There is like 30+ factions and as many Legendary Legions with special rules. Each army is quite small so you only need like 50-100 models to be "done" with a faction and start a new one.

Shooting is relatively weak so you don't need that much terrain if you don't want to but if you do you can play it with tons of terrain for more narrative games.

Game haven't gotten anything from GW in a while (probably due to them focusing on their own IPs while they still have supply problems) but the game is quite popular and have had a resurgence since 2018 when they released the current edition (which is still like 80-90% the same as the 2001 edition).

The game scales fairly well so you can easily play it at half the normal game size with just a couple of heroes and a box of warriors (maybe around 300pts) up to normal tournament size that is 600-800pts and it still feels like the same game. At 1000pts the game can slow down a bit due to the amount of models but we have had fun 3000pt mega battles at the club without any problems. The game is narrative based but ironically the best competitive game GW has so it can fit more casual play styles or more competitive tournament games.

Sam Mustafa's Blucher.

Great little game, a cracking campaign system, and the game uses a card system to play it that can slowly replaced with minis if you wish.

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/search?q=blucher+battle

Battletech would fit almost perfectly

Blücher as napoleonic game that can be played with unit cards or models

other option with building models involved would be Deadzone as between boardgame and wargame

Some awesome suggestions so far!

MESBG was a game I once deeply loved, so I appreciate the reminder and will definitely throw it on my short list!

At a glance this Blucher game looks awesome, and I was thinking of replacing the Commands and Colors Napoleonics wood-blocks with models eventually anyway... might be a cool cross-over project.

Has anyone heard of games called Onus! or Battleground which apparently also do the miniatures game, but played with cards, thing?

Warhammer underworlds and Marvel Crisis protocol both seem to fit this.

Loads of small varied teams, lots of meta deckbuilding etc if wanted and fairly nice to play casual (the only way I've played)

Fast, fun, tactical and varied playstyles and models.

For over 20 years I pretty much only played 4ok & also ended up with several large armies. But I always wanted to try other games, I just didn't have time. When I finally quit 40k after 8th edition released, I sold all my 40k armies. Now i play Dropfleet Commander, Dropzone Commander, Titanicus, Lord of the Rings, Marvel Crisis Protocol, Battletech (classic & Alphastrike), X-Wing, Flames of War, plus a dozen boardgames.

The game you want is CMON's A Song of Ice and Fire miniatures game:

https://asoiaf.cmon.com/

Reasons:
Miniatures are pre-assembled, near zero prep time. It is rare that I even have to scrape a mold line. I hate assembling minis with very limited options or poses. With ASOIAF you usually get 4-5 unique sculpts per box, and then they are easy to convert if you want more diverse guys.

List building is a HUUGE and rewarding part of the game. Since 6 of your 20 army tactics cards depend on your commander, you can influence the style of play based on the commander you bring. For example, while Lannisters will naturally skew towards a control play style, but when you bring The Mountain as your commander, he adds a bunch of aggro cards to your hand (in addition to his abilities on the battlefield). All armies but maybe 1-2 have really great internal balance meaning that you can come up with tons of viable competitive lists with a wide variety of units and commanders. I generate lists I want to try for fun during brief downtimes. I have buckets of lists I can try. Unit attachments can also really alter how units play, giving even more variety.

The game is really well balanced In highly competitive play, top tier armies have a less than 60% win rate (thousands of games recorded into professional data science run website ASOIAF stats). Even though list building is important and some armies have a small advantage, the biggest predictor of who wins are the decisions you make in the game. The developers will adjust over performing units etc. on a roughly annual basis.

Huge product line Try out armies and units to your heart's content. There are 9 armies that all have at a minimum multiple heroes boxes (meaning 6+ commanders and 10+ attachments) and 8+ different units. Many have many more. The tenth and most recently released army (The Boltons) have 6 units, a bunch of attachments and 3 different commanders. In addition there is a huge stable of neutral mercenaries that can be taken with any army (so even more variety and army building options)

Very easy setup Terrain is all standardized with common key words. Most common game has 4 combat units per side. Everything is on trays so play and movement is fast.

Seriously. This is the game you want. I could go on and on. It is the best game I've played have down in the last 20+ years of wargaming.

Ask me any questions!

 Gallahad wrote:
The game you want is CMON's A Song of Ice and Fire miniatures game:

https://asoiaf.cmon.com/

I knew this the answer I was secretly fishing for.

For context, ASoIaF is my wife and my FAVORITE minis game of all time. We had MASSIVE collections of (then) all six armies, lived in an area with plenty of events, etc... We bought a new home and moved though to a place with zero players. Like true hobby cowards, we felt dejected and sold it all, rather than fight to enjoy something which made us genuinely happy. Meanwhile we let the local GW cultists try to convince us no other games exist.

Since making this thread, I have sold two AoS armies, and immediately reinvested it into rebuilding our ASoIaF. I would rather we only have each-other to game with and genuinely love our experience, than always defer to the masses.

Looking at my post, we really were just describing ASoIaF wasn't I? LOL

It does sound like SOIAF may be a very good bet for you. Relatively few figures per force and easy to prep. I don't like the larger size, but I have to admit that the figures do look gorgeous.

If you like listbuilding and army jumping (small armies), Inifinity may be worth looking at. You can burn through small factions without having to paint big armies.

I notice you mention Battlelore 2nd edition. It's a great game with a surprising variety across the 3 factions and it really does feel like a whole wargame experience in a box. However, some units are quite hard to find. I'd only recommend it if you have a partner who really wants to play and invest in the game.

If you have a dozen 40k armies already but hate the game, why not give Grimdark Future a try? It's pretty much made for folks like you. You can still have fun listbuilding (all weapon loadouts are supported) and working the Grimdark meta, but it's far faster (listbuilidng and playing) than 40k and there's nothing to buy since you've already got so many armies. I've got a half dozen 40k armies and no desire to play 10th edition but my son and I absolutely love throwing down a quick battle of Grimdark.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
The game you want is CMON's A Song of Ice and Fire miniatures game:

https://asoiaf.cmon.com/

I knew this the answer I was secretly fishing for.

For context, ASoIaF is my wife and my FAVORITE minis game of all time. We had MASSIVE collections of (then) all six armies, lived in an area with plenty of events, etc... We bought a new home and moved though to a place with zero players. Like true hobby cowards, we felt dejected and sold it all, rather than fight to enjoy something which made us genuinely happy. Meanwhile we let the local GW cultists try to convince us no other games exist.

Since making this thread, I have sold two AoS armies, and immediately reinvested it into rebuilding our ASoIaF. I would rather we only have each-other to game with and genuinely love our experience, than always defer to the masses.

Looking at my post, we really were just describing ASoIaF wasn't I? LOL

Yeah man, sounds like it!

Fwiw I took my gaming group of diehard 40K guys and after only a couple games of ASOIAF they all bought armies and we now have regular game days. No one plays 40K anymore.

The game is so good it is easy to find new players in my experience. The game has only gotten better since you left. Good luck and welcome back!

Yup, it really sounded from your first post like you were looking for a reason to play ASOIAF

You guys are absolutely right. I had half decided to get back into ASoIaF but clearly had some self-sabotage going on where I was almost looking for an excuse not to. The human brain is weird, and admitting I made a mistake selling our old collection was all it took for the lightbulb to go off.

I'm VERY excited to play it again, and want this to be a reminder to me or anyone that following your heart almost always ends up more satisfying than following the crowd.

Good points. IMHO, the only crowd that might be worth following is your local game group. All other crowds are just voices out there somewhere.

I don't even follow my local game group!

If I did, all I would do was play Kill Team/40K all the time. Boring!

Dystopian Wars 3.0 is still fresh and very actively developed with the 8 faction books being updated every few months, and most of it is hard plastic now.

If you want minimal prep and already have miniatures then "miniature agnostic" games are worth a shout.

Why get more miniatures to prep and paint if you can play new games with minis you have already paid for and painted.

If you like trying all sorts of new things then skirmish games are great.
Frostgrave and Stargrave are popular and good fun.
There are loads of skirmish wargames too, so you can find something that suits you.

You can use your 40k collection for Grimdark Future (One Page Rules) or Firefight (Mantic).

If you're enjoying a Napoleonic game and you're interested in the history then Napoleonic historical wargaming might be worth a look.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

My ideal game...

- Can be a board-game or miniatures wargame, though minis are preferred (but cardboard isn't a dealbreaker!)
- Has numerous armies and units available, allowing me to switch lists/playstyles often
- Has minimal prep. Pre-assembled models, or cardboard chits let me go from buying a fresh new unit to playing it, almost immediately
- Has modest setup, so there isn't an hour from setting up a game, to playing it. Modest or abstract terrain possibly?

I think you should go historical.
https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-historicals-wofun-games-model-and-product-review/
Instant models for most periods.

The best historical game I have encountered is seven years war, King of the battlefield. Though the rules are tricky to get sometimes.
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=540034

The same author has tested and played for a few years a Napoleonic version called Emperor of the battlefield.
https://www.bhgs.org.uk/britcon---emperor-of-the-battlefield.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:
Sam Mustafa's Blucher.

Great little game, a cracking campaign system, and the game uses a card system to play it that can slowly replaced with minis if you wish.

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/search?q=blucher+battle

Blucher is incredible - but a potentially tough learning curve if one person 'gets' the rules before the other.
http://artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/?/en/ is another in the same vein, but has more work for models if you aren't using the instants from the link above.

It's worth noting that with historical games the miniatures and rules are produced separately.
There's no copyright on history.

Which means that one can play most "rule sets" for a particular historical with the same minis.

For example: if someone were to write and publish a new set of ancients and medieval rules, then the norm is that they accommodate several scales and the most common base sizes people use.
I would expect to be able to use my decades old armies pretty much as is.