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2023/11/23 09:25:33
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
So potential spoilers for Son of the Forest and Death and the End Vol II, so I will add a subsection.
Spoiler:
In The Death and the End volume II, Big E throws a shard of himself into the warp. And it is revealed the the Big E is "The Dark King". So material form Big E restrains himself but it is clear there are now two parts to the emp. The material form who eventually sits on the throne and the part of himself in the warp. Almost acting apart from one another.
This is where we get into realm of educated speculation. In the son of the forest Lion meets and old man couple times. First on a boat wearing a crown (cough cough) surrounded by four shark like shadows. Second in a grand hall on a (cough) throne (cough). Behind him is suggested sanguinius' spear. A couple more times in the book it is suggested the big E gifts Lion the sword at a time of need (king arthur-esque style) and gifts him the shield at the end after some trials. (Who I believe is the big E testing the lion in the forms of his brothers)
So it would appear the shard of the Big E is still "the dark king" except he's not a chaos god he is just a god like entity in the warp. Able to keep the chaos gods at bay to a degree and can have heavy influence. I believe it is this shard of the emp that is the part that offers protection. The one that assists the SoB and Black Templars. The shard that helps summon legion of the damned (It's possible as horus does it with Ferrus Manus). The throne emp is more or less now a hive mind of the sacrificed psykers and no longer resembles any true part of the big E and serves more of a machinic purpose and has little to no humanity. This is why Bobby G was upset after speaking with him.
Just my thoughts, happy to hear anyone else's thoughts.
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2023/11/23 09:36:10
Subject: Re:The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
The Emperor was only going to become the Dark King if he used the power of the Warp to destroy Horus.
Instead he cast off his emotions so that he could his favoured son.
This portion he cast off is heavily implied to be part of the Star Child prophecy where the Emperor reunites with his lost soul and rises again to lead the Imperium.
It's a main plot point of the Dawn of Fire series.
2023/11/28 15:33:35
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Yeah, I figured that was the symbolism they were going for with the Old Man once they had him literally sitting on a throne and kept emphasizing his wound at that point.
How many distinct warp entities has the Emperor been confirmed or implied to have broken himself up into at this point? Off the top of my head, there's...
* the old man
* the manifestation of the astronomicon(?) that shows up in the Black Legion novels.
* sorta-kinda saints, though that's more of a daemon/daemon prince situation?
Also, it seems like someone at GW likes the souls plitting trope. We've got:
* Big E
* Magnus and his soul shards
* Alpharius/Omegon by their nature, though this seems to be a thing for human and eldar twins in general.
* Eldrad in the old lore shoved his soul into a bunch of different spirit stones (the Cassandra thing.)
* Asurmen apparently shoved part of his soul(s) into his ship?
* Malys's heart is implied to be from Cegorach. Though that might be more of a general "mark" situation.
* C'tan shards are, er, shards of the overall C'tan.
* Khaine and his shards.
* Oh, and Cawl. If you count that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/28 15:59:26
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2023/11/28 16:44:04
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Wyldhunt wrote: Yeah, I figured that was the symbolism they were going for with the Old Man once they had him literally sitting on a throne and kept emphasizing his wound at that point.
How many distinct warp entities has the Emperor been confirmed or implied to have broken himself up into at this point? Off the top of my head, there's...
* the old man * the manifestation of the astronomicon(?) that shows up in the Black Legion novels. * sorta-kinda saints, though that's more of a daemon/daemon prince situation?
Part of me wonders if we will have a Flash Crisis event with Big E. We know when Slaanesh was born at the time of being born they were also always there. Because warp is timey wimey stuff.
I wonder if same for Big E, he ascends but he ascends into the very powers that brought himself into being and thus timey wimey stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/28 17:37:21
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2023/11/28 17:14:12
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Wasn't part of the Psychic Awakening lore that more and more saints were popping up? I'd say the that's probably our "avatar" equivalent.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2023/11/29 10:39:41
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Wyldhunt wrote: Wasn't part of the Psychic Awakening lore that more and more saints were popping up? I'd say the that's probably our "avatar" equivalent.
Psychic awakening is how I think Lion got his forest walk ability. I also think this is the Lions "true" form too. Corvus states in his fight v Lorgar that the raven form he has is his true form, not the skin the Big E placed upon primarchs because they're all warp entwined.
But as for the Avatar stuff, I don't think this is an Avatar. But I do think it has allowed this shard/form of the Big E to more easily commune with whom he needs to.
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2023/11/29 13:54:54
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Wyldhunt wrote: Yeah, I figured that was the symbolism they were going for with the Old Man once they had him literally sitting on a throne and kept emphasizing his wound at that point.
How many distinct warp entities has the Emperor been confirmed or implied to have broken himself up into at this point? Off the top of my head, there's...
* the old man
* the manifestation of the astronomicon(?) that shows up in the Black Legion novels.
* sorta-kinda saints, though that's more of a daemon/daemon prince situation?
Also, it seems like someone at GW likes the souls plitting trope. We've got:
* Big E
* Magnus and his soul shards
* Alpharius/Omegon by their nature, though this seems to be a thing for human and eldar twins in general.
* Eldrad in the old lore shoved his soul into a bunch of different spirit stones (the Cassandra thing.)
* Asurmen apparently shoved part of his soul(s) into his ship?
* Malys's heart is implied to be from Cegorach. Though that might be more of a general "mark" situation.
* C'tan shards are, er, shards of the overall C'tan.
* Khaine and his shards.
* Oh, and Cawl. If you count that.
Yeah, saints are not parts of the Emperor's soul, they merely receive His blessings the way Chaos Champions receive blessings of Chaos gods.
As for soul splitting, I noticed that as well. May be the part of greater theme of decay?
Wyldhunt wrote: Yeah, I figured that was the symbolism they were going for with the Old Man once they had him literally sitting on a throne and kept emphasizing his wound at that point.
How many distinct warp entities has the Emperor been confirmed or implied to have broken himself up into at this point? Off the top of my head, there's...
* the old man
* the manifestation of the astronomicon(?) that shows up in the Black Legion novels.
* sorta-kinda saints, though that's more of a daemon/daemon prince situation?
Also, it seems like someone at GW likes the souls plitting trope. We've got:
* Big E
* Magnus and his soul shards
* Alpharius/Omegon by their nature, though this seems to be a thing for human and eldar twins in general.
* Eldrad in the old lore shoved his soul into a bunch of different spirit stones (the Cassandra thing.)
* Asurmen apparently shoved part of his soul(s) into his ship?
* Malys's heart is implied to be from Cegorach. Though that might be more of a general "mark" situation.
* C'tan shards are, er, shards of the overall C'tan.
* Khaine and his shards.
* Oh, and Cawl. If you count that.
Yeah, saints are not parts of the Emperor's soul, they merely receive His blessings the way Chaos Champions receive blessings of Chaos gods.
As for soul splitting, I noticed that as well. May be the part of greater theme of decay?
In that vein of emporer blessings. If his split shard soul becomes powerful enough. I wonder if you could have aposing saints.
A saint with golden throne Big E and a saint from the old man warp Big E? Different idealogies. The two shards of the emporer with different goals and possible aposing one another?
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2023/11/30 15:46:12
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Well, chaos champions, daemon princes/daemons of the same god, harlequins, and phoenix lords can all end up fighting each other.
If the Emperor's empowered servants *can't* do the same, they'd be unique in that regard.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2023/11/30 19:59:14
Subject: The Old Man appearance in the Lion El'Jonson Book, Son of the forest now makes sense.
Wyldhunt wrote: Yeah, I figured that was the symbolism they were going for with the Old Man once they had him literally sitting on a throne and kept emphasizing his wound at that point.
How many distinct warp entities has the Emperor been confirmed or implied to have broken himself up into at this point? Off the top of my head, there's...
* the old man
* the manifestation of the astronomicon(?) that shows up in the Black Legion novels.
* sorta-kinda saints, though that's more of a daemon/daemon prince situation?
Also, it seems like someone at GW likes the souls plitting trope. We've got:
* Big E
* Magnus and his soul shards
* Alpharius/Omegon by their nature, though this seems to be a thing for human and eldar twins in general.
* Eldrad in the old lore shoved his soul into a bunch of different spirit stones (the Cassandra thing.)
* Asurmen apparently shoved part of his soul(s) into his ship?
* Malys's heart is implied to be from Cegorach. Though that might be more of a general "mark" situation.
* C'tan shards are, er, shards of the overall C'tan.
* Khaine and his shards.
* Oh, and Cawl. If you count that.
Yeah, saints are not parts of the Emperor's soul, they merely receive His blessings the way Chaos Champions receive blessings of Chaos gods.
As for soul splitting, I noticed that as well. May be the part of greater theme of decay?
In that vein of emporer blessings. If his split shard soul becomes powerful enough. I wonder if you could have aposing saints.
A saint with golden throne Big E and a saint from the old man warp Big E? Different idealogies. The two shards of the emporer with different goals and possible aposing one another?
I don't see why not. If Emperor's soul / personality truly is splitting, and shards end up having different ideas, then yes, various Imperial Saints may end up in the opposition to each other.
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