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I was having a discussion with some friends about this especially since the GW article mentions keeping the 30k and 40K universes apart. I personally think they can’t move it to legends because of how ubiquitous it is with the Death Korps and the lore always mentioning how there are so many just sitting around in the imperium. Thoughts?

This is the company that when they launched the Kratos tank made damned sure every SM player knew they could use it in both 30k & 40k.
Going as far as to provide you a data sheet download.
Now it's in HH Legends.

This is the company that took non-herasy specific things like tarantulas & rapiers - and made them HH era Legends.

How about all the Chaos stuff that came along after the HH that found itself retroconned into being HH Legends?

And you really think they aren't going to move the Malcador to Legends???

I certainly hope not. It's a great model, and the 30k-40k split is bullgak.

Alternative option. Play HH because its better

Joking aside, the Malcador is in the IA PDFs which will never be made into a book again it seems. None for 8th or 9th barring the rules needed to use certain units and that's likely the way it'll be forever more.

So if you consider PDFs released at the start of an edition with no FAQs legit, then Malcadors are fine in 40k.

 Gert wrote:
Alternative option. Play HH because its better

Joking aside, the Malcador is in the IA PDFs which will never be made into a book again it seems. None for 8th or 9th barring the rules needed to use certain units and that's likely the way it'll be forever more.

So if you consider PDFs released at the start of an edition with no FAQs legit, then Malcadors are fine in 40k.

Well, GW tells you they're legit rules for the edition, so who are you to say otherwise?

The Guard Codex is what matters. Lots of speculation and not a lot of hard evidence, but it's been rumoured that the Classified final Dex in the road map IS Guard, and that one possible reason might be that the cover contains a reveal.

Speculations about what that reveal might be are many- Krieg, Elysians...

We don't yet know about whether GW's new MO includes resurrecting things from Legends. We could see a Guard variant of the Tauros with the dex- boomeranging it back from Legends. I think it's possible the Malcadon will make it into the dex.

My pet theory is that the Repressor will come back, which would be another boomerang.

The recent Legends problem is awkward, and it's hard to make sense of it... But I think there might be more going on than we can confirm at the moment.

I think it is legitimate for GW to be concerned that the HH vehicles could impede the ROI for vehicles from the 40k range- I almost universally despise Primaris tanks, but I love the Spartan and I know I'm not alone. I only really like Marines as Chambers Militant, and even I want a Spartan as a mobile command fortress for my Deathwatch. But it'll be a cold day in hell before someone will talk me into buying a Primaris tank.

In the end, what GW does or doesn't do on this front won't affect me much- I have the datacards, and no qualms about using Legends, so whether the Spartan or the Malcador make the dex, I'd still buy them.

Seeing that Kroot box though, my hobby budget doesn't have room for a while.

Ig codex wouldn't contain malcador in any case. It's fw unit.

We don't yet know about whether GW's new MO includes resurrecting things from Legends.

We do know. It does not. Its either a currently-in-production plastic kit specifically for 40k or its gone.

We're five books in now (DA contents are known, even if the book is still officially pending) and anything not available went splat.

Space Marine codex was most notable for what got excised. Necrons lost the alternate build for technomancers. The red terror didn't magically reappear in the Tyranid book. DA have a heavily mauled ravenwing and lost options that didn't make it on the new chapter upgrade sprue.

tneva82 wrote:
Ig codex wouldn't contain malcador in any case. It's fw unit.

That is a distinction that no longer means much. There is no Forgeworld Website now, and HH plastics had been on the GW site long before the FW site was scrapped.

I haven't purchased any 10th ed dexes yet, so I had no idea that they were keeping things that we have typically thought of as "Forgeworld" units out of the game. And I think recent Legends shenanigans make it harder to assess GW's motivations.

The Malcador is getting a PLASTIC model. When that happened to the Valkyrie, it BECAME a GW product and stopped being a FW product. Ditto Kriegers, and probably a few other kits about which I know far less- I freely admit FW is not one of my areas of expertise.

To be clear, I'm not predicting it WILL happen, merely saying it MIGHT. GW does have a long legacy of missed opportunities. I frequently hope for things that GW is within striking distance of achieving, only to be disappointed. I'm already tapped out hoping for lost causes this edition- rules and model ranges will never be more conducive as they are right now to bringing back the Repressor. Modelling development is the best it's been for supporting the addition of the Tauros and Malcador to the Guard. An Archon (new sculpt) + Court box and a Beast Pack box are more likely now than they've every been. Heck, Drukhari might be eligible for a Kroot style pre-release box; a versus is possible too, but we did get Piety and Pain last edition (and Blood of the Phoenix in 8th). We've had one new Aspect, and there are rumours of others.

But GW could mess any of it up at the last minut- we just don't know. but if the Malcador IS often associated with Krieg in 40k, and we are getting a plastic Malcador, and if rumours of a couple new Krieg kits pan out, Id say there's a fighting chance.

Don’t expect it outside of Legends, I guess.

They’re second/third line mothballed reserves. Krieg became synonymous because of how long that war went on for, and so they delved deep into their reserves. Into the modern era, and even Krieg has less reason to field them than more “modern” tanks. After all, they fell out of favour and were retired for a reason.

Legends is such a dumb idea. Not even getting into the lore justification of "These are exceedingly rare, and almost never are seen", the whole idea of a miniature company basically saying a unit that makes people really happy, and in turn, makes the company a bunch of money, is now illegal in play.

1. If we are against making money, why is BL characters still in production? They all mostly to a person suck stats-wise, and are crappy sculpts.

2. If we are using the lore justifaction, then Astartes should be Legends, PRimarchs should be Legends. Custodes should be Legends, and Officio Assasinorum/Sisters of Silence should be legends. They are all exceedingly rare. Sisters to the point that they were LITERALLY forgotten about by the Imperium. But yeah, That Malcador. Can't have that running around!

I'd personally love to see the Malcadie and Taros back into 40k proper. Custodes are cross 40k/Heresy to an extent, so why not?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Legends is such a dumb idea. Not even getting into the lore justification of "These are exceedingly rare, and almost never are seen", the whole idea of a miniature company basically saying a unit that makes people really happy, and in turn, makes the company a bunch of money, is now illegal in play.

1. If we are against making money, why is BL characters still in production? They all mostly to a person suck stats-wise, and are crappy sculpts.

2. If we are using the lore justifaction, then Astartes should be Legends, PRimarchs should be Legends. Custodes should be Legends, and Officio Assasinorum/Sisters of Silence should be legends. They are all exceedingly rare. Sisters to the point that they were LITERALLY forgotten about by the Imperium. But yeah, That Malcador. Can't have that running around!

Except for actually needing to prove that these things 'make a bunch of money' instead of just claiming it, none of this is relevant.

SKU bloat is a real thing and a real problem for businesses. Unit bloat is also a problem, particularly for GW. Managing production is generally a good thing, regardless of if individual customers get bothered by it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Legends is such a dumb idea.

Perhaps.

But I think what matters more is the question: "Is Legends better than whatever GW's "next best solution" to the problem of legacy models would be. And I think the answer is "yes," because I think Gw's "next best solution" would be to just cut the units completely.

Because of Legends, whether or not GW makes an IG version of the model, and whether or not it's in the codex if they do, I will be able to convert and field one. Ditto for the Repressor.

PenitentJake wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Legends is such a dumb idea.

Perhaps.

But I think what matters more is the question: "Is Legends better than whatever GW's "next best solution" to the problem of legacy models would be. And I think the answer is "no," because I think Gw's "next best solution" would be to just cut the units completely.

?? I think you misspelled "yes" in there.
But explain...
How exactly is providing me rules for ([/u]fill in unit[u]) not a better option than cutting it altogether?

WITH Legends I can continue to play numerous pieces in my collection - discontinued pieces, various in-production HH models, 1 off special edition figures (ex: The Red Gobbo), all kinds of figures that've come from Blackstone Fortress, and assorted terrain kits that that have specific rules (some of wich they just did as MTO awhile back & should arrive soon) - as what they are meant to be. I don't have to proxy them as anything.
Now the quality of the rules provided might be questionable (see the rules for my Big Guns)... but that's a different complaint and not really any different than wether or not some Codex offering is good/bad/otherwise edition to edition.

Meanwhile, if they had been cut, if they had no 10e rules, I certainly couldn't use them as what they were intended to be.
For example: my original Razorbacks with their las/plas turrets gave been cut since 8e Legends. I can pull the turrets & use them as rhinos. I can proxy them as Razorbacks with TL lascannon (ignoring the clearly visible 2 plasma guns). I could even run them as Rhino Primaris (TL plasma gun, ignore the obvious lascannon).
But I'm highly doubtfull you'll let me shoot your stuff with 1 lascannon & 1 TL plasma gun as GW originally intended.

Having Legends rules is definitely better than not having them.

You are correct- fixed.

Regarding ressurection from legends: the Tauros Venator seems to come back in plastic (for Necromunda for now, but still) and it was legended quite a while ago

Malcador will surely get Legended, just because I would like to field one for my DKoK

30K and 40K being artificially separated by datasheet Legends is peak GW BS and the reason I went back to 2nd edition

One thing I don't understand is how a lot of the discussion online has been some variation on 'wait for the codex/it will be dropped from the codex'. As far as I know the Malcador has never been in the Codex so how will the Codex make any difference to it's status?

It currently has rules for the resin version which I can't see how they are suddenly invalid based on a material change to plastic. It's much the same as any of the Imperial Armour kits that have Index cards but are never likely to get into the codex, they still see play. Now when 11th comes along they might remove/refresh the current IA Indexes and it might be lost then.

ccs wrote:
This is the company that when they launched the Kratos tank made damned sure every SM player knew they could use it in both 30k & 40k.
Going as far as to provide you a data sheet download.
Now it's in HH Legends.

This is the company that took non-herasy specific things like tarantulas & rapiers - and made them HH era Legends.

How about all the Chaos stuff that came along after the HH that found itself retroconned into being HH Legends?

And you really think they aren't going to move the Malcador to Legends???

This says my feelings better than I could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Don’t expect it outside of Legends, I guess.

They’re second/third line mothballed reserves. Krieg became synonymous because of how long that war went on for, and so they delved deep into their reserves. Into the modern era, and even Krieg has less reason to field them than more “modern” tanks. After all, they fell out of favour and were retired for a reason.

I find it ironic, because in the original Siege of Vraks books it was the traitors exclusively using the Malcador. While the DKOK were using Russes and Macharius tanks. Some point later they changed script and started saying they were a favourite vehicle of the DKOK.

Jarms48 wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Don’t expect it outside of Legends, I guess.

They’re second/third line mothballed reserves. Krieg became synonymous because of how long that war went on for, and so they delved deep into their reserves. Into the modern era, and even Krieg has less reason to field them than more “modern” tanks. After all, they fell out of favour and were retired for a reason.

I find it ironic, because in the original Siege of Vraks books it was the traitors exclusively using the Malcador. While the DKOK were using Russes and Macharius tanks. Some point later they changed script and started saying they were a favourite vehicle of the DKOK.

This confused me too. Krieg gets unusually new equipment with their supply contract with Lucius. Malcadors are old stuff the Imperium can't maintain properly by 40k.

Did GW get the names mixed up at some point?