CMON N&R - Degenesis Clan Wars GF Q2 2024, DC Heroes United GF July 2024

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Theophony**

If they’d do less Kickstarter exclusive add ons I think they’d get more sales. I wanted some of the trees and huts from Hate, and could have possibly bought the hills too. Zombicide barricades and hedges would have sold too. I mean they could have continued to make money on existing molds, but tried to milk the cow too much.

**Gallahad**

Yeah, I wanted the huts and trees from HATE a lot, but I didn't $150 want them...

**Mysterio**

I guess we know why CMON is throwing out all these "Flash Kickstarters" then.

And yes, have to believe that if CMON is *not* selling the IP for WoK, then it is dead and buried.

Dark Age might get a second (or is it third now? Fourth?) chance but, cynicism aside, don't expect the promised "Soon" announcement on WoK and DA until after their Black Friday sale.

Where they'll likely try to blow much stock out the door as possible.

The closer to 80% off that WoK and DA stuff ends up at will determine whether or not CMON will be moving forward with either (on none) of them.

**455_PWR**

Well, that makes sense why certain items from kickstarter's haven't made retail if they weren't popular in the ks.

As one who had backed almost every cmon kickstarter, I think their kickstarters are fine... as long as they did only a few larger projects a year like 2017 and prior. The smaller projects seem like they are raising cash only to fund the larger projects (stealing from Peter to pay Paul... what soda pop minis had done.). Cmon set the standard for games and ks, but the market is full of games and companies now (mythic, etc, hell the assassins creed game looks ace too!!). If they release too many they will end up like mage knight.

This year they made costly decisions to hire smith, mcvey, and the best game designer out there... they all came with a large cost im sure. The worst decision was to hire a sole artist for their games. Smith is good for horror stuff (7 sins, cthulu, etc), but he doesn't fit in more lighthearted stuff (wok, zombicide, zombicide inv, etc).

They also seem to release their ks only exclusives at conventions. The first zombicide promos should be long gone, but are still there at cons. This has dropped values so folks aren't buying multiple copies for resale/investments anymore.

They have a lot of good products coming and some ace systems (project elite, zombicide, black plague, Arcadia quest, etc). Even though they took a loss I don't think you will see cmon leave the market.

As for wok, I think it was more unique and a less costly system than fire and ice.I don't see fire and ice becoming big, and it's a shame if they stop supporting wok. It is such a good game system, with some amazing minis!!

**parakuribo**

455_PWR wrote:
Well, that makes sense why certain items from kickstarter's haven't made retail if they weren't popular in the ks.

As one who had backed almost every cmon kickstarter, I think their kickstarters are fine...

….They have a lot of good products coming and some ace systems (project elite, zombicide, black plague, Arcadia quest, etc). Even though they took a loss I don't think you will see cmon leave the market.

As for wok, I think it was more unique and a less costly system than fire and ice.I don't see fire and ice becoming big, and it's a shame if they stop supporting wok. It is such a good game system, with some amazing minis!!

The Kickstarters are now what is wrong with CMON. I liked their methods before, when they had a lot of exclusive enemies or charcters while those who did not back it would still have a good selection of expansions. Unfortunately, starting with Green Horde, you begin to see a pattern where you need to back to fully enjoy the game; otherwise, you could be playing either a very easy or very difficult game since every expansion is an exclusive(Massive Darkness and Zombicide: Prison Outreak, although earlier, are two examples those difficulties).

Hopefully, after Zombicide and AQ's latest project they should go back to what made them CMON with new stuff. Unfortunately, hopefully is an made up word to them; they are probably keep using the same crap while abandoning the projects that they refuse to shape(like Dark Age and WoK. I strongly think they are not family friendly to their image which could be why they are discontinued ).

P.S. Rick and Morty games always have a parental advisory sticker. Making Hate KS exclusive because it has mature content instead of placing a sticker on the box is NEVER an excuse.

**ced1106**

I don't think the flash sales are a sign of weakness for CMON. KS backers have long known that 30 days is too long for a KS, with its middle days making less money than the beginning and end ones. Mythic Games is also holding a short KS for its Reichbusters campaign.

I dunno how larger these companies are, but I'm gonna err on the side of small. That month you have a community guy answering questions doesn't work for free, so why keep spending money on a project for 30 days when you can do it for 10?

As for add-ons, expansions don't sell as well as the base game. So, like WotC, CMON may be moving to a model where they want to sell more base units of different games to a larger audience, than have competitions spend hundreds of dollars on a single game.

Which comes to WoK and DA. While Dakka is primarily an audience of miniature gamers, the market CMON is after is not. Boardgamers have *much* more money to spend than miniature gamers and CMON long ago focused its business on them. WoK and DA are still supported, but, by the posts on Dakka about the releases of these games, CMON certainly isn't giving much support. What I make of GoT is that the GoT games and even toy license has been around for all these years, so it shouldn't be unusual that a hobby game company has a license for it. Why a GoT miniatures game? FFG has had the GoT boardgame rights for over 15 years, so that leaves CMON with a miniatures game. The miniature game model of selling retail-only products mollifies retailer complaints about CMON using KS to sell games -- and we don't know if CMON will stop supporting GoT like they are doing with WoK.

Speaking of retailers, I *think* retailers prefer to carry multiple base games of different games than stock many expansions of a single game line. Miniature gamers may not know this, but, for boardgames, the sales of expansions drops a fair amount for later released expansions. So, back to add-ons, having fewer add-ons fits better into this model of selling a base game and few expansion sets.

KS is there for the creator, not the backer. Maybe Mythic and Monolith will resume the previous CMON model, but I'm not seeing this, with Mythic's shortened funding period, and Monoliths' experiment of units made before the KS starts. We'll see.

**Mysterio**

At these prices - 80% off Dark Age and Wrath of Kings - it looks like our only hope is that CMON has also already sold off the IP for these two great games as well.

Maybe even also at 80% off too...

**Hulksmash**

Meh, everything I want to round all all 4 factions that aren't Hadross is available dirt cheap. So I'll finish off the collection today for another $80. That'll bring me all in to a total of around $500. Less than I spend on a single 40k army for 4 full factions. gak happens but I'll have the full game experience available to play.

I will say not everything is 80% off. Quite a bit of the WoK range isn't. It's basically starters and portions of the last two waves that are onsale.

**Mysterio**

I think if you re-fresh your browser, you'll see differently.

It is ALL of the WoK and DA ranges - or, at least it is where I'm looking at it.

Right now.

**Hulksmash**

I just swapped pages 2 seconds ago and it's not showing the entire WoK range but I'll take your word for it.

**Mysterio**

Some of the 'main pages' are not showing the 'correct prices', but the individual pages themselves certainly are.

**Hulksmash**

Well if it ever speeds up I'll be able to find out on my end

**bum4life**

i was wondering should one box of each unit from a faction be enough or should i double up any of the boxes. I'm looking at the goritsi and nasier

**Hulksmash**

One box is likely fine. You might want to double up on one or two of the specialist boxes like the Great Wings or the other Nasir big guy and the flying crazy wolf and super zombie. Outside of that I'd probably just grab 2 starters and one of each other box.

**Valander**

Good lord their site is slow. What's it running on, a TRS-80?

I think I'll go ahead and grab the remaining Nasier I don't have (if it ever loads) just because at 80% off, why not? I do kinda hope that they've sold off that IP to a company that will do something with it.

**Hulksmash**

Well order completed. Now can run anything I want for 4 factions. Plus a bit extra on models I just really like. All told between the kickstarter, selling off random bits and two sales I'm up 4 factions for around $125 each.

**bum4life**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hulksmash wrote:
One box is likely fine. You might want to double up on one or two of the specialist boxes like the Great Wings or the other Nasir big guy and the flying crazy wolf and super zombie. Outside of that I'd probably just grab 2 starters and one of each other box.

so to make sure i got it
Honor and Treachery: The Battle of Ravenwood
1
Nasier Starter Box
2
Nasier Ashman Box
1
Nasier Pelegarth Box
1
Nasier Fel Hammers Box
1
Nasier Rank 1 Specialist Box
1
Nasier Character (Specialist) Box
1
Nasier Great Horn box
2
NASIER- PELEGARTH BRUTES BOX
1
Nasier Firehawk Reavers
1
NASIER- ARKIZAN GREATWING BOX
2
Nasier Izari Warhounds
1
Nasier Character Box 3
1
Goritsi Gotha Knights
1
Goritsi Whitemane Duellists
1
Goritsi - Ravener Alpha
1
Goritsi Blood Engine Box
1
Goritsi Starter Box
1
I got one box of each of the rest of the Goritsi line except the knights and duelists during the last sale.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Well I got my CMON order in and have finished up my WoK stuff in anticipation of the game disappearing

plus extra flying pigs as who doesn't love flying pigs?

sad all the Dark Age stuff I might have wanted was out of stock (did I miss it or was it all OOS anyway?)

If you're into gribblies/tentacles some of The Others: 7 Sins expansion boxes are discounted and in stock, and don't count as a boardgame for shipping

If you want any sci-fi doors/turrets etc for boardgames grab the Sedition Wars terrain set, again it doesn't count as a boardgame for shipping

happy and sad as I got a bunch of cool stuff but it looks very much like 2 games I like (even if I never played Dark Age) are done

**Hulksmash**

You dont need the ashman or pelegath ladies boxes as two starters get you 12 of each. Otherwise looks good.

**lord_blackfang**

Prices are tempting even with $25 international shipping, but I don't dare risk being stopped by customs and potentially paying taxes on full price.

**infinite_array**

I ended up ordering the last units from Book 2 that I needed to complete my Shael Han.

I'm tempted to throw in a second order and get all the available Nasier stuff... but since the games basically dead, I think I'd rather just have a single army to take to events and games that pop up.

**Mysterio**

Assuming I have one of everything for Goritsi, Teknes, Shael Han and Hadross, is there anything I should double up on?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

What is going on with Rivet Wars? Here is the UPDATE.

Is RW dead? No, since Super Robot Punch owns Rivet Wars we can make or release any RW product we choose. Right now, CMoN is not going to publish future RW products, so we would need to find a new publishing partner to continue to release RW in a box, with minis, printed manuals etc. If anyone has contacts, suggestions or is a publisher, maybe we can find a new home for Rivet Wars.

For now though we’d like to give folks a chance to get the miniatures and rules that they’ve been asking for. Let’s get the Ruska, Ottoman, and maybe some ships...into the fight!

Miniatures - I’m uploading the 3D files to Shapeways. In this way you can pick models you’re interested in and have Shapeways print and send them to you. This has some drawbacks but it gets the models out there and it’s a la carte so if you want to get a Rusk KV-12 tank and only the tank, that’s all you have to order. I’m not sure how fast these will come online, but all the base Ruska units are up there now.

Rules/Stats - We have a lot of rules and stats for the new models. There are also some exciting additions to the rules like Line of Sight and Cover. Really simple but effective and it adds more tactics to the game. This was to be part of the Ruska Ottoman campaign. I’ll compile the stats and rules and release them in digital form as PDFs. This will allow anyone to download the information and get using the new rules and minis.

Other stuff - I’ve been working on a video game version of Rivet Wars. Right now it’s looking pretty great and could hopefully tie in to the board game and some new ideas. Just another way to Get in the Fight!

So what happened with CMoN? For years we’ve been discussing the expansions for Rivet Wars but at this time RW does not fit into CMoN’s publishing plans. They are a great team and made Rivet Wars a reality and I’d love to work with them again if the chance ever presented itself.

Right now I hope this allows folks to get their hands on some of the Ruska, Ottoman and rules that we have planned for and created. A lot of time and work went into these new factions and we want to see people enjoying them. Hopefully we’ll learn a bit as people explore this new content and this may lead to a future release or kickstarter or something else. Thank you all for your support and interest and for getting in the fight!

Link to shapeways:
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/superrobotpunch

well this just dropped on the Rivet Wars facebook, CMON is apparently officially dropping IPs.

Even though it's polite you can see Ted Terranova has all this new content ready to go for a long time and CMON just sat on it, (presumably they had an option, perhaps with a small yearly payment? that's now been given up)

**Mysterio**

Not sure if I want them to drop WoK and Dark Age.

I kinda think...I don't?

Or at least I want them to either support them (for reals this time!) or sell them to someone who will.

Just dropping them outright would be...odd.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Adrian Smith is just mad he couldn't use the name "Rivet Wars" for his Zombiecide Invader designs.

Yes, I know that wasn't the best joke, but it is important at times like this to remember just how awful Adrian Smith's designs were.

**Sacredroach**

I love Dark Age and enjoyed WoK. If CMON drops them, I hope they find a new, solid home. Heck, both are in good position for relaunches and Kickstarters (looking at you, new Brood sculpts).

**Barzam**

Seems like CMON is rapidly turning into Spartan Games.

**Monkeysloth**

Not really. CMoN finds it more. Profitable to do boardgames with one large expansion and several small ones. Miniature games are long term effort that rarely pay off at the level of the short term boardgame. This doess make the song of fire and ice game likely to be shuttered if holiday sales aren't good knowing their reputation - especially after hearing about the loss they took with licensing fees.

**PsychoticStorm**

Strange I was thinking what was happening with River Wars, great IP and design mangled in the rules department.

**Monkeysloth**

Blood Rage Digital live.

7 days only. $15 for the game $60 for the game and new minis.

No minis only pledge.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/blood-rage-digital?ref=7s0dqf