Switch Theme:

Why do Feudal Worlds persist?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Altruizine wrote:

You've failed to factor in transtechnological dread


Is that where a DOS-based world encounters something using an Apple OS?

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar





The Shire(s)

Something else to consider is that all primitive worlds in 40k have regressed to that state- stone-age tribes didn't make it to some far flung world in their current state after all. They all arrived on advanced space craft.

That means something happened that drove the regression (such as lack of access to a key resource) which may explain why the worlds are unable to advance further again.

It probably also explains why there are very few worlds with a stone-age level of technology but with significant political organisation (like early real polities like Sumer or the Aztecs)- once you have the knowledge of metalworking, it is very unlikely a politically organised state would lose that unless there were no accessible ferrous sources on world. Iron metalworking is fairly easy with the knowledge of how to do it. Stone age ferals worlds are probably very rare because they have to have regressed to almost no organised society in order to not be able to support metallurgy.

Remember, these worlds will not match our historic cultures, because they have dropped from a level of tech with interstellar travel. With that caveat, historical nations anywhere from the Roman or Seleucid Empire through to Napoleonic France or the Tokugawa Shogunate would likely be considered feudal worlds if they existed as single planets in the Imperium. Probably even up to nations like the Confederacy that were just starting to industrialise. Nations with a technology level akin to the Athenian Empire or Ancient Egypt or the Incan Empire likely wouldn't exist in the Imperium with any sort of regularity, because worlds with that level of organisation would be unlikely to lose the ability to work iron. Feral worlds seem to be distinguished by a lack of urban centres, yet still often have metal weapons despite a political organisation no greater than villages.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
The author tackles this concept of the "barbarian" warrior being better than the civilized, which he disagrees with and argues is a myth with the few outlier examples of such non-settled peoples triumphing sticking in the memory over all those other times when they failed against sedentary people and their states.


I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying the fluff does have some real-world support. R.E. Howard was all about how Conan the Cimmerian's pure wild fury would always defeat decadent civilization.

A huge part of the bias in favor of "barbarians" was the success of nomadic raiders against sedentary peoples. It is true that in the pre-industrial age, the premier "weapons system" was a horse archer trained from birth to his trade. Very hard for anyone to stop and impossible to eliminate since the vast Eurasian continent provided limitless strategic depth into which they could withdraw.

Cavalry ruled the Steppe, but horse archer forces rarely penetrated far outside of it where different forces were more effective. This is just an example of environment dictating tactics. Equally, horse archers and cavalry in general suck at taking fortifications (for example), which is why Hungary massively strengthened its castles and walled settlements after the first Mongol invasion, and suffered much less in the later ones. The aformentioned issues with forage mean you could wait out a horde of cavalry with enough stockpiled food.

The other factor that was key in the decline of massed horse archers was the development of the war wagon. Mobile cover paired with light, mobile artillery and other ranged weaponry was nearly impossible for purely cavalry forces to defeat. The concept was developed by the Czechs but later Cossacks used war wagons to great effect against Tatars and similar steppe peoples.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/20 18:34:45


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in fr
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





France

I already touched about this somewhere above, but the absence or lack of mechanicus to see to the world's tech as it works in 40k and with how secret they keep all technology for themselves, a world bereft of a mechanicus complement will inevitably decline for lack of knowledge an facilities. And, or, if the imperium doesn't ship necessary ressources any longer that would allow technology to be maintained.

May not be the only reason but from the top of my head seems like the most plausible. The how and why htey were left to rot or cut of in the first place will vary however.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/20 18:49:25


40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.

"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably.  
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It's like playing a game like Rimworld.


You can start out super advanced on a high tech space ship; but once you're feet on the ground you've got to survive. If you assume most specialist understanding is held by few people in the colony ships then if those people die early; or are rendered unable to think clearly; then you've lost that knowledge.

IF a Warp Storm sets in then you can't replace those people. If you have a society like the Imperial one that is outright against the sciences; treats invention like a religion and original thinking close to a sin then its very probable that you will regress pretty quickly.

Heck a world might not have ready access to certain fuel sources so suddenly all those reactors and fuel engines might fail on you because you don't have the means to extract it.

Indeed you can argue that the more advanced a civilization becomes the more at risk and the further it has to fall once it has a resource or knowledge gap.





Heck because the Imperium has a tiered society you could easily have food or drink reserved for the upper classes. If that became contaminated or degraded too far you could have a mass poisoning event that suddenly wipes out a portion of the upper ranks. Suddenly a huge knowledge base is lost. You could have the cogitator sitting right there with all the info you need, but if you don't know the password you cannot get inside it to get that information.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Technological recovery was also probably hampered by the impact something like an STC would have over generations.

In essence, if this wonder machine does it all for you (especially the more advanced ones which also fabricated the goods), you’re probably gonna lose human knowledge of the process. So once the STC is removed? Your technological goose is cooked.

I also think the earlier point about worlds perhaps lacking critical resources is a good one. The immediate temptation is to consider any newly settled world to be pristine. But that’s not accounting for the millions of years we know sentient life existed in the galaxy. So it’s possible that whilst all trace of a previous colony or culture has gone? The planet’s resources may be denuded as well.

   
Made in fr
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





France

Yep, the above sounds totally correct to me. And then, when degredation has escalated and the world degenerated, the input of ressources from the Imperium to uplift it is simply not worth it and the Imperium says "oh, ya know, might as well..."

40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.

"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably.  
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: