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I was looking at converting some DW Knights to CSM termies, because I liked the look of the models and it seems to roughly fit into my theme of my CSM warband, and I really like the mauls they have...

Str+2 And they can make the enemy in combat WS 1? yes please...

My only concern is that they are AP 4, but I think this isn't much of an issue for me, as in my FLGS we have an equal amount of Xeno players as there are Space Marine players...

So what do you think of them?

Cheers to all comments

Power Mauls, are actually pretty decent, despite the AP4. The best thing is, they are free, and allow you to threaten a wide range of targets at Init value.

What I did, was I used the Deathwing Knight Robes, and got the Chaos Terminator heads. They fit in pretty great with my Word Bearers look.

Awesome Im thinking of keeping the robes and heads, attaching the main body of a CSM terminator to the front torsos body's getting the mauls and sticking them on then adding Combi-bolter's to them...

On a side note I think AP 4 is quite good, yeah its not the best but it removes a lot of Xeno armour and it removes quite a bit of guard infantry armour...

wounding on a 2+ againt T4 is nice i run a big unit of termies i run a chainfist 3 mauls 3 swords and an axe along with a termie lord with the black mace its pretty brutal

 happygolucky wrote:
I was looking at converting some DW Knights to CSM termies, because I liked the look of the models and it seems to roughly fit into my theme of my CSM warband, and I really like the mauls they have...

Str+2 And they can make the enemy in combat WS 1? yes please...

My only concern is that they are AP 4, but I think this isn't much of an issue for me, as in my FLGS we have an equal amount of Xeno players as there are Space Marine players...

So what do you think of them?

Cheers to all comments

Well, keep in mind that initiative 4 versus initiative 1 is not too much of a change when it comes to xeno. They are few xeno that are I1-4 that you will face with your termies and have a challenge. Maybe Necrons and Orks are the only ones where this is going to matter. Other than them, i don't see too many I2,3,4 xeno units that are going to assault/be assaulted by your terminators. So you might in fact want the two extra ap values in exchange for -1 strength and I1 with the axe.

Your choice in the end, but them being terminators, i wouldn't worry too much about anything swinging before them that ignores their armour (AP2 at initiative is few and far between), so you can realiably be taking those 2+ saves before you get to swing at I1 and AP2.

I was thinking on taking either mark of Tzeench on them or Slannesh mainly so I could have a good Invulnerable save or make sure I usually always go first in combat, not sure which to take...

just ordered some mauls from ebay myself, mauls are pretty legit

So everyone loves Power Mauls and yet everyone thinks AP4 is crippling on DWK.

Mind boggled.

I think if your going in a Metagame with them and your in a tournament full of marine players, then they maybe not so good...

However if you go into a tournament where there are as many Xeno players as there are Sphez Mahrine players then there ok...

Mauls are better against every target that isn't in power armor, so the real question when deciding whether or not you want to take Mauls is deciding how likely and how able you are to deal with Marines. Personally, if you are taking Bale-flamer Helldrakes (which you probably should be doing if you are chaos. If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does), you'll probably be able to fairly easily deal with MEQ, so you'll want to go either an axe or a maul on your termies.

Personally, speaking in terms of across all codices, I only take swords on models I want to have fight in challenges, on non-characters taking an axe or maul is usually a better choice.

 TedNugent wrote:
So everyone loves Power Mauls and yet everyone thinks AP4 is crippling on DWK.

Mind boggled.

Same here. Especially since DWK, unlike chaos termies, have a good inv save to fall back on while trading blows. And they can have a turn of going WTFPWN on pretty much everything guaranteed!

Power mauls are okay when facing power armor, and good against most anything else. Putting them on Chaos Terminators is a fine choice. Chaos terminators are already at a disadvantage against most loyalist terminators, so why try to shore up that weakness instead of making them good in a different role?

My current meta is very power armor heavy, but if your meta has xenos, then power mauls are money.

People are angry that DWK aren't hammernators, and that full hammernator squads are more expensive for Dark Angels. Never mind that DWK have better weapon skill, can be T5 3++ terminators when coming in from deep strike, and can basically destroy most other 'hammer' units in the game. And never mind that regular deathwing are now amazing at alpha strike shooting.

 TedNugent wrote:
So everyone loves Power Mauls and yet everyone thinks AP4 is crippling on DWK.

Mind boggled.

That's because the chaos dex sucks so much that they are happy just getting ap4.

Honestly ap4 isn't good on termies, stick to axes, striking at I1 isn't too bad with a +2 plus save.

mauls arent that bad on termies. Axes are better, but you should mix and match.

swords suck, if you are thinking of putting a sword on one, think about it. Pay the points. upgrade to a lightning claw. You will never be unhappy.

A CSM termite units should be (in order of decreasing number) Axes, Lightning Claws, Mauls, Chain Fists.

In the old Codex I used to have a Tzeence nator squad with pairs of lightning claws with Abbadon, they always payed their points back every game, but not im not sure, I am a bit hazardous to take Axes since these havily armoured units will go toe-to-toe with other units (such as MC and other nators, etc), and from past experiance with my Warpsmith Axes arnt the best, so I am a bit hesitant to use Axe's, but mauls seem so good when going up against an MC (with Mark of slannesh Il be striking first, and aginst most tanks im Str 6 thats a bonus IMHO)...

I'm sure I've seen some mathhammer somewhere that gives power mauls the edge of power swords, purely because of the 2+ to wound vs MEQ

Of course when you throw in Termies and or equiv then my mathhammer-fu isn't strong enough to run the numbers. I say magnetise the lot of them and if you need to change weapons on a game by game basis do it. There's no change in points afterall.

If only I could convince TO's thats an option!

ToWound Saved Wounds
sword 0.5 0 0.5
maul 0.833333333 0.555555556 0.277777778

As expected, swords are better vs MEQ, roughly twice as good.

If they have a 5+ invuln then its 0.3333 for the sword vs 0.27777 for the maul

If you are vs 2+ save then it is 0.083 for the sword vs 0.1388 for the maul

(all this is assuming you auto hit)

I don't have any of the books on me ATM but do mauls have concussive? If so you might want to go with a full weapon spread, if not maces and axes

This is the mathhammer for each weapon. This is a per swing chance to deliver an unsaved wound.
This is given MEQ statline vs MEQ statline.
Maul.... 13.8%
Sword...25%
Axe.......33.3%
Claw.....37.5%
Fist........41.6%
Because the claw is a specialist weapon, the Axe actually pulls ahead in action. This is due to the extra attack the axe gets that the claw does not.

This is given MEQ statline vs Necron Warrior statline.
Sword...25%
Axe.......33.3%
Claw.....37.5%
Maul.... 41.6%
Fist........41.6%
Notice how the effect of the maul shot up to be equal to the fist. Since the fist usually does not get an extra CCW, the maul actually pulls ahead.


This is given MEQ statline vs TEQ statline.
Sword...4.2%
Claw.....6.2%
Maul.... 6.9%
Axe.......22.2%
Fist........27.78%
As expected the effective rate of all weapons that are not AP2 just drops to the floor. The claw and maul in this case are beating out the power sword, because they are wounding either 75% of the time or 83.33% of the time.


This is given MEQ statline vs TH/SS TEQ statline.
Sword...4.2%
Claw.....6.2%
Maul.... 6.9%
Axe.......11.1%
Fist........13.89%
If the termies go from a 5++ to 3++ the durability of the unit to AP2 weapons doubles. That's why you see numbers half like such. While the previous power weapons are not that great, you will see that even a fist is only twice as likely to cause a wound as the maul.

Can we get some math hammer on MCs? I think there might be something there for the Powermauls over the others with the exception of the powerfist.

Its easy to do your own mathammer.

1) Open up M$ Excel.
2) In Cell 2A put your 'to hit' chance. (.50 for 50%)
3) In Cell 2B put your 'to wound' chance (.6667 for 2/3)
4) In Cell 2C put your 'failed save' chance (.3333 for 1/3)
5) In Cell 2D put your 'FNP Save' chance (1 if there is no FNP)
6) In Cell 2E put your 'Number of Attacks'
7) In Cell 2F put the following forumla in =SUM(A2*B2*C2*D2*E2)

Taa Daa! That shows you how many wounds something can do a turn.
Now that you have that, you can copy and paste it as needed to calculate any number of situations.

If you get a reroll to hit e.g. reroll 1s then do (chance to get a reroll e.g. 1/6) * (chance to hit when making reroll e.g. 4/6) * Number of Attacks
Then add that to the number of normal hits

Oh cool I didnt know that.