Warcaster anyone?

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**Vertrucio**

With metal, the fewer pieces the better in my opinion. Although it's still awkward to have 4 identical squads marching around.

Most of the game customization within a squad is by adding attachments, which you don't have to decide on while list building, you just choose an attachment and pay the extra cost when you summon the unit in game.

**LunarSol**

I generally really like the dynamic deployment of the game. From what I've seen the game size scales fairly well to the point where a lot of the people I talk to that have it aren't really interested in hitting the 15 unit size game. Personally, part of the reason I'm waiting is just for a bit more stuff to release, since like MonPoc the composition seems to lend itself more towards specilization that spam and filling out an army now seems to require duplicates to replace later.

**Kanluwen**

Vertrucio wrote:
With metal, the fewer pieces the better in my opinion. Although it's still awkward to have 4 identical squads marching around.

Most of the game customization within a squad is by adding attachments, which you don't have to decide on while list building, you just choose an attachment and pay the extra cost when you summon the unit in game.

For sure! The only downside is that right now, only the Iron Star Alliance have a Unit Attachment(the Aegis).
Aeternus Continuum are confirmed to get one in KS#2, that's what the last Warcaster Thursday update was.

Right now is the only timeframe I really expect it to be an issue for these initial 3 factions. Once the 'second unit'(Heavy Rangers, Annihilators, the other Continuum unit) drops? It'll be a big shift in terms of what composition will look like--and once the KS#2 hits, even more. The Ranger Infiltrators alone for Marcher Worlds have been a big point of speculation.

From what I've been seeing, the variant warjacks and the standard warjacks are fairly compatible with parts which is

Note:
Not saying "BLAH! TERRIBLE!". I genuinely don't expect people to hit 15 unit cap for a year or so at least.

Right now, my 'goal list' is:
1x Ranger Fire Team
2x Hunters(I got two out of the Marcher World box since we backed, the normal and the variant)
1x Weaver
2x Dusk Wolves(I'm going to grab a B when it comes out)
1x Ranger Heavy Fire Team
1x Voitek Sudal
1x Mechanic
1x Strike Raptor

That comes out to 10 choices, one of which(Voitek Sudal) is a Hero Solo choice.

**marxlives**

Kanluwen wrote:
All in all, I'm pretty pleased with the stuff my brother and I got. We pledged for just a 'Head' to Head' and are waiting for the variant heads+weapons for the warjacks to arrive, but even if they're lost in the suckhole that is the USPS right now? That's no big deal, cause you can purchase them separately when/if you decide to grab the variant stuff later.

Biggest complaint I might have with the 'line troopers' right now is that there was no real interchangeability of parts. You can swap the heads, that's about it, on the Marcher Worlds Fire Team. The Aeternus Continuum stuff is two pieces, so you can't even do that.

I think they said that variants are a possible stretch goal for Kickstarter #2, but the big thing is new units and the Empyrean Faction are the focus.

Sidenote:
If you're not familiar with the army composition for games?
Up to 15 units(that includes solos) plus up to 3 Hero solos(none of which are out just yet, even for backers as far as I'm aware).
Up to 4 of a specific unit can be included.

So a Marcher Worlds list could be:
4x units of the Ranger Fire Teams
4x Dusk Wolf Light Warjacks
4x Hunter Solos
1x Weaver Solo

Then:
1x Voitek Sudal(Wildcard Hero, works for Iron Star or Marcher Worlds)
1x Artemis Fang(Marcher Worlds Hero)
1x Brobot Guy They Previewed Not Long Ago(Marcher Worlds or Empyrean)

The who way you pic 15 units and 3 Heroes and have a side bar or bench that you spawn from makes this a revolutionary game design wise for a 28mm+ sci-fi.

**Seabass**

hard pass, sadly. Privateer Press has become curse words with my local stores. Just too much bad blood there.

**aphyon**

Nope, i am enjoying mopoc and MK III warmachine for fun casual play from PPs offerings. i have infinity if i want to play skirmish level cyber punk/scifi. ( and i like the rules better).

**NH Gunsmith**

I REALLY wanted to like Warcaster, but the game just doesn't seem to do it for me.

Been warming up to the model designs... but the rules just aren't for me. Would rather try Infinity again with a different faction.

**Sunno**

People who backed the KS in the UK seemed to have got their stock last week.

Sadly I can find no stores stocking it. Not even a coming soon or preorder from any of the major or smaller stores that have a reasonable presence in the UK. Which doesn't bode well for the longevity of the game over here.

Thankfully WM/H is having something of an uptick over here in the UK. But not enough for store to invest in the new game. Which is a shame as i want this to do well for PP.

**Shrapnelsmile**

NH Gunsmith wrote:
I REALLY wanted to like Warcaster, but the game just doesn't seem to do it for me.

Been warming up to the model designs... but the rules just aren't for me. Would rather try Infinity again with a different faction.

What were the most significant turn-offs within the rule set / gameplay experience?

**Sim-Life**

I have no faith in PP anymore. This feels liked the AoS of Warmachine but the company hasn't learned anything from their previous lines failure.

**LunarSol**

Sim-Life wrote:
I have no faith in PP anymore. This feels liked the AoS of Warmachine but the company hasn't learned anything from their previous lines failure.

Meh, I'll bite. In what way?

**Arbitrator**

It's interesting to me GW fail time and time again, but people will give them infinite chances. Other companies mess up once and they're sworn off forever.

I suppose that's really the secret to GW's success more than anything else.

**Robert Facepalmer**

I dunno, people that I have known that have sworn off of GW are pretty good about not going back. Meanwhile, there seems to be a constant flow of new players. That churn is the golden goose.

**Overread**

Robert Facepalmer wrote:
I dunno, people that I have known that have sworn off of GW are pretty good about not going back. Meanwhile, there seems to be a constant flow of new players. That churn is the golden goose.

There's a few factors:

1) Some of those who swear off online are just venting. They vent online and yet they might well be gaming the next week at the club; they just don't bother telling people online

2) Some will swear off but are, indeed, replaced by the recruitment of many more new wargamers

3) Some swear off and then begrudgingly return because its the only game in town and they either don't want too* or lack the skill/setup/understanding to establish and promote another game.

*I should note that its not easy to start a new game in an area so sometimes its not a person being lazy; it can be quite a big commitment in time and effort.

**LunarSol**

All true of WMH as well. The main issue right now is just that WMH doesn't have a very good entry point for new players, which GW constantly dumps must have entry points that appeal to existing and new players.

**Polonius**

Arbitrator wrote:
It's interesting to me GW fail time and time again, but people will give them infinite chances. Other companies mess up once and they're sworn off forever.

I suppose that's really the secret to GW's success more than anything else.

At the end of the day, I am more invested in my 40k armies than I am in my Warmachine army. I've stepped away from 40k when I wasn't having fun, and I knew what I wanted to happen before I returned.

40k is a big enough hobby that you can keep a toe in it through lore, painting, or hyper casual events as well.

I have hundreds of painted cyngar models that I'd love to use again, but I'm not holding my breath.

**Overread**

Yep and with the PG system gone PP has issues with recruitement. You'll always get people leaving, but if you can recruit as people leave you're fine.

You see the same with forums; forums these days have it hard on recruitment and every lost member is a blow. Some very active sites 10-15 years ago are ghost towns now; not because anything wrong happened. They just couldn't find a way to advertise and compete with Facebook and get high enough google rankings and social media setups.

GW has embraced all that- they are getting those high ranking;s they are spreading their IP wide; they've got stores and staff and front line troopers ready to convert new people; they've got specific game modes for beginners and smaller game formats for those new to the game.

**Polonius**

I think if you compare GW and PP, you can almost figure out why one rebounded from it's 2015 Nadir, while another cratered from it's 2015 peak.

I think PP and GW listen to different outside sources. PP listens to it's "fans" and players, while GW listens to it's paying customers. PP kept trying to make tournament players happy, even though they weren't buying nearly enough to keep them in business. GW basically wrote off tournament games, and focused on the people who, for whatever reason, kept buying their stuff.

**Overread**

At the same time its not one of the other.

If you look at Blizzard and esports (taht do well) and at games like Magic the Gathering - then the competitive end, run well, can be very profitable. It also has the big bonus of being very marketable. You can sell advertising space; you can promote it everywhere; you can use it to advertise your own product and generate hype and interest.

With a big playing population you can even ensure a healthy local level casual format system.

So in the end its not one or the other. GW could improve by focusing a bit more on tournaments. PP a bit more by focusing on newer gamers and getting fresh blood into their game. A tight rules system doesn't have to be unfriendly to beginners. I think it was in some ways as I recall back in 2nd edition there were tricks- like using charges (that fail) to run instead of runs. Things that a beginner won't get, but will tip the scales.

**Polonius**

Overread wrote:
At the same time its not one of the other.

If you look at Blizzard and esports (taht do well) and at games like Magic the Gathering - then the competitive end, run well, can be very profitable. It also has the big bonus of being very marketable. You can sell advertising space; you can promote it everywhere; you can use it to advertise your own product and generate hype and interest.

That's undneniable. One thing a buddy of mine pointed out that separates minis games from magic/esports, and also separates WMH from 40k? How long each game takes to not only play, but to set up.

You can rock out dozens of games of Magic in an evening, and video games can be reset and played at will. with clocks and only playing things to a tipping point, good players can get in multiple games of WMH on a work night. 40k takes all evening, and even four games in a full day is exhausting.

Minis games require room, a partner, and time to physically set up and tear down. You just can't get in the reps to playtest, or even build up a high level of player skill.

**Mr. Grey**

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**LunarSol**

Mr. Grey wrote:
more than once I've seen managers complaining about the difficulty of getting stock from Privateer.

Welcome to a world in which distributors won't restock product beyond it's initial release. :(

**Arbitrator**

Mr. Grey wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
It's interesting to me GW fail time and time again, but people will give them infinite chances. Other companies mess up once and they're sworn off forever.

I suppose that's really the secret to GW's success more than anything else.

Yep, they sure are failing a lot right now with their ever increasing profits even during a pandemic and higher sales year after year the last 4-5 years running. I don't know what it's like in your area, but in my local meta even a lot of long-term, die hard WHM players dropped the game like a hot rock and went back to Warhammer 40K when 8th edition dropped. Pandemic aside, my local game store(one of the biggest in the southeast US) doesn't even keep more than a bare minimum of PP stock on the shelves anymore. Rather, they do a weekly or bi-weekly PP order and more than once I've seen managers complaining about the difficulty of getting stock from Privateer.

That's my point. We're back to a similar position we were in 7th, wherein GW have cranked prices to the absurd, the balance is completely out of whack, they're doubling down on Space Marine explosions, etc, etc. By fail I don't mean financially, as even at their worst (7th) GW were still pulling in millions in profit, just that profit was shrinking more every year. Yet people will gripe, moan, bitch, whatever and see keep paying hand over foot for it. Most of the people who made WHM boom were disgruntled 40k'ers who were always going to go sprinting back to GW the second they started showing the slightest sign of improving. I'd say WHM is no in worse or better a position it was prior to 7th edition, it just had a very brief, but memorable, time in the sun.

**Mr. Grey**

deleted

**Valander**

Mr. Grey wrote:
I've also seen rumors that part of the issue with hiring new people is that PP doesn't wanna pay an appropriate salary for the area, and Seattle's cost of living is pretty high.

Both of these I can confirm as true. I had several friends who worked at PP, and confirmed that the pay rates are definitely on the low end for this area, and yup, Seattle area (even eastside) is bloody expensive.

**thesilverback**

I want to get into Warcaster but got to find the right faction.

So for right now playing Monpoc with the wife and kids.

**NinthMusketeer**

Arbitrator wrote:
Mr. Grey wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
It's interesting to me GW fail time and time again, but people will give them infinite chances. Other companies mess up once and they're sworn off forever.

I suppose that's really the secret to GW's success more than anything else.

Yep, they sure are failing a lot right now with their ever increasing profits even during a pandemic and higher sales year after year the last 4-5 years running. I don't know what it's like in your area, but in my local meta even a lot of long-term, die hard WHM players dropped the game like a hot rock and went back to Warhammer 40K when 8th edition dropped. Pandemic aside, my local game store(one of the biggest in the southeast US) doesn't even keep more than a bare minimum of PP stock on the shelves anymore. Rather, they do a weekly or bi-weekly PP order and more than once I've seen managers complaining about the difficulty of getting stock from Privateer.

That's my point. We're back to a similar position we were in 7th, wherein GW have cranked prices to the absurd, the balance is completely out of whack, they're doubling down on Space Marine explosions, etc, etc. By fail I don't mean financially, as even at their worst (7th) GW were still pulling in millions in profit, just that profit was shrinking more every year. Yet people will gripe, moan, bitch, whatever and see keep paying hand over foot for it. Most of the people who made WHM boom were disgruntled 40k'ers who were always going to go sprinting back to GW the second they started showing the slightest sign of improving. I'd say WHM is no in worse or better a position it was prior to 7th edition, it just had a very brief, but memorable, time in the sun.

This is the same WMH that offers models at GW prices with worse quality? Yeah, I can see why GW's 'failures' are more successful.

**Ghool**

Strange how any thread devoted to PP tends to evolve into what PP did wrong.
I didn’t pick up Warcaster due to the cost. With the shipping and exchange rate, just getting a single heavy would have cost around $75CAD.
While the models looked fine, sci-fi really isn’t my bag. So I passed. I haven’t been to the LGS in almost 6 months so I have no idea if it’s even there or how well it’s doing.

The game had some decent models but I have way too much to paint as it is. And as I get older, I’m finding I want to have whole armies and games painted. So I’ve been collecting less and competing projects more.
Plus, my interest has shifted more toward my first love of gaming - board games.

**Kanluwen**

As far as I've seen, it hasn't hit retail just yet.

I really have enjoyed what I've played with my Marcher Worlds.

**Overread**

I'm eagerly waiting for KS 2 and the alien race!