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I don’t get it, we enjoy Horus heresy (or I do) knowing the ending to that story. Are Luna wolf/sons of Horus players bitter at their genefather getting killed?

 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
Special Character wise, who apart from gods, undead and daemons are actually around during this setting?

Ikit Claw, Aekold Helbrass (other warriors of chaos?) maybe some elves and/or dwarves?

Ok this who i know was alive or active during the 3 Emperors Period

Empire - Mangus the Pious
Chaos - Valnir the Reaper, Scyla Anfingrimm, Aekold Helbrass, Arbaal the Undefeated
GreenSkins - Gorbad Ironclaw
Vampire Counts - Vlad and Isabella Von Carlstine, Konrad Von Carlstine, Manfred Von Carlstine
Tomb Kings - Settra, Khalida
Undead - Arkhan the Black, (Nagash was still healing during this time and was not active)
Skaven - Ikit Claw
Bretonnian - Repanse de Lyonesse
Dogs of War/ Tilea - Leonardo da Miragliano
Dwarfs - All of the Dwarf SCs where alive during this time, but may not hold their current positions. Gotrek likely has not committed his sin that let him to become a Slayer at this time. Bugman is young by Dwarf standards and may not have been born yet
Wood elves, High Elves, and Dark Elves - Elves are immortal and were likely alive during this time with one exception. Skraw the Falconer is considered young by Elf standards and may not have been born yet.
Chaos Dwarf - Astragoth was alive during this period
Lizardmen - All Slann

If i missed any i am sorry

 Paymaster Games wrote:

 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
Special Character wise, who apart from gods, undead and daemons are actually around during this setting?

Ikit Claw, Aekold Helbrass (other warriors of chaos?) maybe some elves and/or dwarves?

Ok this who i know was alive or active during the 3 Emperors Period

Empire - Mangus the Pious
Chaos - Valnir the Reaper, Scyla Anfingrimm, Aekold Helbrass, Arbaal the Undefeated
GreenSkins - Gorbad Ironclaw
Vampire Counts - Vlad and Isabella Von Carlstine, Konrad Von Carlstine, Manfred Von Carlstine
Tomb Kings - Settra, Khalida
Undead - Arkhan the Black, (Nagash was still healing during this time and was not active)
Skaven - Ikit Claw
Bretonnian - Repanse de Lyonesse
Dogs of War/ Tilea - Leonardo da Miragliano
Dwarfs - All of the Dwarf SCs where alive during this time, but may not hold their current positions. Gotrek likely has not committed his sin that let him to become a Slayer at this time. Bugman is young by Dwarf standards and may not have been born yet
Wood elves, High Elves, and Dark Elves - Elves are immortal and were likely alive during this time with one exception. Skraw the Falconer is considered young by Elf standards and may not have been born yet.
Chaos Dwarf - Astragoth was alive during this period
Lizardmen - All Slann

If i missed any i am sorry

By the time of the Great War Against Chaos in 2300 - all the major von Carsteins are destroyed or pretending (Mannfred) to be but most of the other major vampires from the other major bloodlines are about and active.

Twilight Pathways wrote:
Am I the only one who feels it's set too close to the End Times? Knowing that it all ends in just a couple of hundred years is a bit of a shame. I know there are reasons for setting it in this time period but it still feels a bit cramped

I agree its perhaps a bit of a cop-out, because I feel we've done "Big War against Chaos" multiple times at this point. (Admittedly, like super-hero origin stories, this assumes you've been here for decades, its potentially new for other people.)

But equally, if you go much earlier, it seems you are reduced to something specific (i.e. Empire vs Vampires, Empire vs Skaven) and I'm not sure what the other factions are doing. Which maybe isn't as much of a problem if you use the scope to write new stories, but that would likely cause lots of complaining. People like a setting.

Tyel wrote:

Twilight Pathways wrote:
Am I the only one who feels it's set too close to the End Times? Knowing that it all ends in just a couple of hundred years is a bit of a shame. I know there are reasons for setting it in this time period but it still feels a bit cramped

I agree its perhaps a bit of a cop-out, because I feel we've done "Big War against Chaos" multiple times at this point. (Admittedly, like super-hero origin stories, this assumes you've been here for decades, its potentially new for other people.)

But equally, if you go much earlier, it seems you are reduced to something specific (i.e. Empire vs Vampires, Empire vs Skaven) and I'm not sure what the other factions are doing. Which maybe isn't as much of a problem if you use the scope to write new stories, but that would likely cause lots of complaining. People like a setting.

Plus the storylines they use to drive campaigns aren't going to go anywhere near "modern" (i.e. 200 years later) fantasy in the timeline.

 Just Tony wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:
Have to say I am relieved to see greatswords, as I have 3×25 of them painted up.

I also do like the fairly moderate fantasy elements. No hordes of pegasi or demigryps, but real hard men.

Do you guys think comp will be lords, heroes, troops, special and rare? And with % or with a number or picks, lik 0-4 special for a 2500 army?

If they use percentages to establish comp then I am out immediately. One of the many things that 8th Edition did that sealed me off of keeping up with Games Workshop games completely was percentages along with some of the other piss poor game design choices. If this is essentially eight but without monstrous cavalry, then I'm out.


Also, the last thread we had was locked because of the whole bunch of people nitpicking a bunch of minutiae from outside sources drowning the news thread with complete pendantry. Why are we starting this over again, people?

Isn't 6th the only edition that didn't use percentages? Off the top of my head, 3rd, 5th and 8th all did. Not sure about 7th.

I can;t recall which edition was best game wise but 6th had so much exploration and options for different factions and variant army lists - loved that.

Hoping that we get models etc for the different priests / warrior priests of different cults of the Empire in the new rules as Sigmar was not quite as pre-emminent in this period

I'm hoping for some awesome priests of Taal to add to my Talabecland army.

Tyel wrote:
Am I the only one who feels it's set too close to the End Times? Knowing that it all ends in just a couple of hundred years is a bit of a shame. I know there are reasons for setting it in this time period but it still feels a bit cramped

it is not about the setting being done
it is more about telling people that the other game is still the main game

is not like we know Horus would not win but still play HH, it is like announcing the new Horus Heresy game with the words "and the destruction of Cadia was already foreshadowed during the Horus Heresy"
this new game is about telling the story how Cadia was doomed since forever?


it just makes not much sense to tell people that the new game with an unexplored timeline and countless scenarios, is again all about the one event that actually killed it

 Just Tony wrote:
f they use percentages to establish comp then I am out immediately. One of the many things that 8th Edition did that sealed me off of keeping up with Games Workshop games completely was percentages along with some of the other piss poor game design choices. If this is essentially eight but without monstrous cavalry, then I'm out.

...what've you got against percentages, Tony?

Especially when I'm pretty sure you only need to be able to work out 50% and 25% of your total points budget to get the brackets - would it be less painful if they gave you a table with the breakdown for different sizes of game, but the % as a reference point if you were playing a value outside the defined ones?

 nathan2004 wrote:
I don’t get it, we enjoy Horus heresy (or I do) knowing the ending to that story. Are Luna wolf/sons of Horus players bitter at their genefather getting killed?

That’s not quite the same thing as knowing all the characters die like punks and the entire setting is destroyed, reduced to ashes, and the ashes salted. The 40k setting was a good storytelling outcome, and still lives. Nit at all the same thing.

It’s a weird hill to die on, there’s a wealth of stories, characters, campaigns that can be told within the Old World setting regardless of if in multiple generations of its timelines future it changed into something else. It’s your opinion and that’s cool, but it’s certainly a massive minority one.

Twilight Pathways wrote:
Am I the only one who feels it's set too close to the End Times? Knowing that it all ends in just a couple of hundred years is a bit of a shame. I know there are reasons for setting it in this time period but it still feels a bit cramped

I feel like setting it relatively close is the best way to get WHFB "back" as much as it can be. Far enough to leave a gap they can explore and do plenty with, but still not so much of a difference that it's basically a completely different setting.

 nathan2004 wrote:
I don’t get it, we enjoy Horus heresy (or I do) knowing the ending to that story. Are Luna wolf/sons of Horus players bitter at their genefather getting killed?

I think it's because HH started as a history and then became a setting, rather than the other way around. I agree, it shouldn't matter, but it seems to.

 kodos wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Am I the only one who feels it's set too close to the End Times? Knowing that it all ends in just a couple of hundred years is a bit of a shame. I know there are reasons for setting it in this time period but it still feels a bit cramped

it is not about the setting being done
it is more about telling people that the other game is still the main game

is not like we know Horus would not win but still play HH, it is like announcing the new Horus Heresy game with the words "and the destruction of Cadia was already foreshadowed during the Horus Heresy"
this new game is about telling the story how Cadia was doomed since forever?


it just makes not much sense to tell people that the new game with an unexplored timeline and countless scenarios, is again all about the one event that actually killed it

Makes no difference to me. I've never been worried about GWs ongoing story, be it WHFB, 40k, or AoS, just the ones that get forged on our tables.
I just want a decent rank & file fantasy game.

 Olthannon wrote:
I'm hoping for some awesome priests of Taal to add to my Talabecland army.

4 flavors of empire sounds good. And mirror the four flavors of skaven, chaos and vampires, no?

Hope the game is closer to skirmish than the bloated 8th, of I have to take a pick.

Always thought all those army deal boxes from the early 2000s were perfect sizes for a 'large' force. I get headaches just looking at my enormous csm forces at 2000pts these days, and they are supposed to be elite and smallish forces.

If the game is all you care about, why even weigh in in the setting? The game means nothing to me (and others) without a compelling setting, a reason to care. Like the rules, hate the rules, they are their own thing and appeal to a different group of gamers.

MaxT wrote:
It’s a weird hill to die on, there’s a wealth of stories, characters, campaigns that can be told within the Old World setting regardless of if in multiple generations of its timelines future it changed into something else. It’s your opinion and that’s cool, but it’s certainly a massive minority one.

It doesn’t appear to be a “massive minority” here, or anywhere else The End Times comes up. Of course, we don’t know how many more people who feel this way have already left and aren’t even sticking around to post about it.

ccs wrote:
I just want a decent rank & file fantasy game.

oh well, then this is the worst possible place to look at (and without the story, there is not much left be excited about)

if you want a decent R&F game from GW, War of the Ring or Warmaster are your best option

the only reason I even care a litte about that game at all is the story line
the chance is very low that I play it even if the story is good as I don't expect much from the rules (and GW will find a way to mess it up anyway), but if the story is bad too, I am not even going to buy the books

 Dysartes wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
f they use percentages to establish comp then I am out immediately. One of the many things that 8th Edition did that sealed me off of keeping up with Games Workshop games completely was percentages along with some of the other piss poor game design choices. If this is essentially eight but without monstrous cavalry, then I'm out.

...what've you got against percentages, Tony?

Especially when I'm pretty sure you only need to be able to work out 50% and 25% of your total points budget to get the brackets - would it be less painful if they gave you a table with the breakdown for different sizes of game, but the % as a reference point if you were playing a value outside the defined ones?

the main problem in the past with % was the difference between Hero Hammer and an R&F game
if it is again all about Heroes and with the units being just there to increase the HP pool, there is not much point in making an R&F game

 Paymaster Games wrote:

 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
Special Character wise, who apart from gods, undead and daemons are actually around during this setting?

Ikit Claw, Aekold Helbrass (other warriors of chaos?) maybe some elves and/or dwarves?

Ok this who i know was alive or active during the 3 Emperors Period

Empire - Mangus the Pious
Chaos - Valnir the Reaper, Scyla Anfingrimm, Aekold Helbrass, Arbaal the Undefeated
GreenSkins - Gorbad Ironclaw
Vampire Counts - Vlad and Isabella Von Carlstine, Konrad Von Carlstine, Manfred Von Carlstine
Tomb Kings - Settra, Khalida
Undead - Arkhan the Black, (Nagash was still healing during this time and was not active)
Skaven - Ikit Claw
Bretonnian - Repanse de Lyonesse
Dogs of War/ Tilea - Leonardo da Miragliano
Dwarfs - All of the Dwarf SCs where alive during this time, but may not hold their current positions. Gotrek likely has not committed his sin that let him to become a Slayer at this time. Bugman is young by Dwarf standards and may not have been born yet
Wood elves, High Elves, and Dark Elves - Elves are immortal and were likely alive during this time with one exception. Skraw the Falconer is considered young by Elf standards and may not have been born yet.
Chaos Dwarf - Astragoth was alive during this period
Lizardmen - All Slann

If i missed any i am sorry

There's also a noteworthy Undead that was long gone by the time the End Times came, but was specifically active during the time period of TOW: Dieter Helsnicht, the Doom Lord of Middenheim. Among other things, he did a quest in search of the great necromancer Kadon, and met Nagash in his regenerating state in Nagashizzar, then returned to the Empire and waged war on the Middenheimers.

I would much rather they do new special characters than old ones, which based upon the named pretenders to the Imperial Throne, is what GW are going for.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If the game is all you care about, why even weigh in in the setting? The game means nothing to me (and others) without a compelling setting, a reason to care.

Except that the Time of the Four Emperors and the Great War is a compelling setting. Yes, we know the major points of Asavar Kul's invasion, but just like the Horus Heresy, this is a chance to expand on the history of the setting and learn the details leading up to the Great War. To the characters alive during the decades living up to the End Times, this IS their Horus Heresy. It's literally the most significant event in Imperial history since the founding of the Empire. Hell, if it wasn't a compelling and memorable time for Warhammer players, why have so many play groups organized historical refights of the Siege of Praag through the decades?

 Olthannon wrote:
I would much rather they do new special characters than old ones, which based upon the named pretenders to the Imperial Throne, is what GW are going for.

They probably aim for something like 80-90% new characters with a handful of plausible old ones thrown in for nostalgia value or because it makes no sense that they would not be active. Some of them are also so old and forgotten that they're functionally new - Dieter Helsnicht for example has had his last official model in 4th edition and his last rules in 5th iirc.

Tsagualsa wrote:
Dieter Helsnicht for example has had his last official model in 4th edition and his last rules in 5th iirc.

Dieter had story in End Times: Nagash. They actually included a lot of "forgotten" characters in the storyline. I would love to see new rules for him, though.

It was a big reason End Times got so much publicity - so much returning nostalgia and characters (even if many of them wound up dead)

 Overread wrote:
It was a big reason End Times got so much publicity - so much returning nostalgia and characters (even if many of them wound up dead)

Agreed. At least we got to see Midnight, in a setting that had been 5 minutes to midnight for 20 years.

 Scottywan82 wrote:


Right, but at that point, Teclis was still recruiting hedge wizards to help. The colleges aren't formed until afterwards when Magnus concedes how helpful the wizards were in defeating Asavar Kul. I imagine the difference will be negligible, but it's neat as a concept. Gives someone more freedom to convert interesting human wizards that don't fit any of the college molds.

According to the recent Winds of Magic book for WFRP 4, Middenheim had openly supported and used mages for centuries before the colleges were created, to the extent that they had Guilds supported by the ruling bodies. The rest of the Empire were still not keen on magic and hunted down by Witch hunters. Assuming the WFRP books are being approved by the same team that is now linked to TOW, it might be a nice addition to Middenheim armies

 endtransmission wrote:

 Scottywan82 wrote:


Right, but at that point, Teclis was still recruiting hedge wizards to help. The colleges aren't formed until afterwards when Magnus concedes how helpful the wizards were in defeating Asavar Kul. I imagine the difference will be negligible, but it's neat as a concept. Gives someone more freedom to convert interesting human wizards that don't fit any of the college molds.

According to the recent Winds of Magic book for WFRP 4, Middenheim had openly supported and used mages for centuries before the colleges were created, to the extent that they had Guilds supported by the ruling bodies. The rest of the Empire were still not keen on magic and hunted down by Witch hunters. Assuming the WFRP books are being approved by the same team that is now linked to TOW, it might be a nice addition to Middenheim armies

The Wizards and Alchemists Guild has been part of the setting since WFRP1 its cool that its still there - there were def links with stuff in the AOS rpg books to the ongoing story with the Broken Realms so it seems likely.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If the game is all you care about, why even weigh in in the setting? The game means nothing to me (and others) without a compelling setting, a reason to care. Like the rules, hate the rules, they are their own thing and appeal to a different group of gamers.

MaxT wrote:
It’s a weird hill to die on, there’s a wealth of stories, characters, campaigns that can be told within the Old World setting regardless of if in multiple generations of its timelines future it changed into something else. It’s your opinion and that’s cool, but it’s certainly a massive minority one.

It doesn’t appear to be a “massive minority” here, or anywhere else The End Times comes up. Of course, we don’t know how many more people who feel this way have already left and aren’t even sticking around to post about it.

If your point was simply "The End Times sucked balls" then we're in violent agreement. But your point seems to be "The End Times sucked, therefore every form of Warhammer story/game/period set before or since also now always sucks forever more". Which is simply not the case.

I would think it is safe to believe Abhorash was around during this time? Be cool to have the first Blood Dragon Vamp.

 triplegrim wrote:
*pictures of WFB battalions*

Why you gotta hurt us like this, look at all that value for money.

As someone who was only playing in 8th I'm dead keen for TOW. These blog posts are very obviously "eh lets string along the hype train as slowly and gradually as possible".

I hope they do something really interesting with the setting, even if it means retconning. They should be able to show that with clever narrative you CAN have factions interacting in a way that fits the world and setting, without needing to flush the world down the toilet because of "waah it's too hard to make a narrative where the lizardmen fight the ogres, need new setting"