Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 streetsamurai wrote:
You really think that people wont be upset if they spend hundreds if not thousands on kits, and spend multiple hours gluing, painting and basing them, only to see them replaced by much much better looking ones a few months later?

Given the new kits always come with a pretty hefty price increase, I generally prefer older stuff myself. And then when new kits come out, people dump their old stuff on E-Bay...

*watches people arguing over if they'd pay current GW prices for "old" kits*


You guys do realise that probably a good half or more of AOS currently on sale kits are "old kits" right?

Also there's a MASSIVE number of old metal ranges of models still on sale in various scales. Heck Reaper have a huge backlog of metal and resin and bones sculpts that are all pretty old.

Heck Tyranids are getting a facelift and a good chunk of their models, like Gaunts, are from 3rd edition.



You can argue all you want, but yeah people do and are spending money on older kits even if new tech, new sculpting styles and methods are around.

You know, i was looking through the site last night and the amount of old kits aren't nearly as prevelant as you think. The only armies that genuinely are are Beastmen, Ogres and Skaven as they haven't had a range refresh yet. The others that aren't unique don't contain that much old stuff either anymore.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
You know, i was looking through the site last night and the amount of old kits aren't nearly as prevelant as you think. The only armies that genuinely are are Beastmen, Ogres and Skaven as they haven't had a range refresh yet. The others that aren't unique don't contain that much old stuff either anymore.

Daughters of Khaine still have witchaelves and the cauldron; Flesheaters are all old models; death cart and necromancer are old; Dwarves, Dark Elves, bits of high and wood elf are all still pre AoS models. Slaanesh still has their old seeker riders, deamonettes, chariots and all. Khorne still have their skullthrower and demons and such.

There have been lots of updates ,but there's still plenty of old things kicking around that look fine.


Plus don't forget whilst you're all focused on the Knight, there were plenty of fairly new kits retired in the big change-over. Tombkings had some pretty modern kits (and honestly a good many that would look perfectly fine in AoS)


My points is the age of a kit isn't always important. If it looks good and people like it and want it then it will sell. Heck I've bought several old metal models (mostly leader types) just because I like the sculpt.

I think a lot of people who only played AoS would be surprised that Nagash was a Warhammer Fantasy model, though for End Times.

 Overread wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
You know, i was looking through the site last night and the amount of old kits aren't nearly as prevelant as you think. The only armies that genuinely are are Beastmen, Ogres and Skaven as they haven't had a range refresh yet. The others that aren't unique don't contain that much old stuff either anymore.

Daughters of Khaine still have witchaelves and the cauldron; Flesheaters are all old models; death cart and necromancer are old; Dwarves, Dark Elves, bits of high and wood elf are all still pre AoS models. Slaanesh still has their old seeker riders, deamonettes, chariots and all. Khorne still have their skullthrower and demons and such.

There have been lots of updates ,but there's still plenty of old things kicking around that look fine.


Plus don't forget whilst you're all focused on the Knight, there were plenty of fairly new kits retired in the big change-over. Tombkings had some pretty modern kits (and honestly a good many that would look perfectly fine in AoS)


My points is the age of a kit isn't always important. If it looks good and people like it and want it then it will sell. Heck I've bought several old metal models (mostly leader types) just because I like the sculpt.

Yeah, but it's nowhere over 50% of the entire range. Not anywhere close to it anymore.

Older models (pre end-times) were perhaps not as technically sophisticated, but they had lots of charm.
Also, back then the models were not sculpted mainly to look cool as high resolution close ups photos on the internet. They did fine just looking ok on the tabletop, preferably togheter with dozens tightly packed models in formation, painted more or less uniform.
Lots of people miss the simple, not fly-jumping models not covered in swirly gak.

Well, personally I actually like the modern dynamic sculpting too, but honestly, they often lack real personality and charm, IMO. I hope we can have both styles.

I realize I might be in the minority here but in the time I’ve been playing warhammer (40k and fantasy), some of my favorite painted armies to see on the tabletop were Brets. I went to the last games day here in the US back in 2013 and there was someone there playing in a tournament with a Bret army and I just marveled at every single piece in that persons army. The level of detail even on the old mini’s was absolutely incredible.

 nathan2004 wrote:
I realize I might be in the minority here but in the time I’ve been playing warhammer (40k and fantasy), some of my favorite painted armies to see on the tabletop were Brets. I went to the last games day here in the US back in 2013 and there was someone there playing in a tournament with a Bret army and I just marveled at every single piece in that persons army. The level of detail even on the old mini’s was absolutely incredible.

I've kind of been wanting a full mounted knight army for a while. AoS still holds cavalry back I feel by making them both smaller units at present and also not really giving them any stand out rules or operation outside of just being bigger infantry on lager bases.

Its just going to be subjective. If you like the old sculpts then that's great.

But for me at least some of this stuff is just bad. Compare say the 2002 High Elf spearmen, archer and Silver Helm sculpts to the newer (2020?) Lumineth stuff. I think they are just much better models. Will they rank up as well (especially the spearmen)? I don't know - but with bigger bases maybe.

Now did High Elves need a "good" Keeper of Secrets? Or "Malletmasters"? Or Kangaroo Cav? No I don't think so - and that's why people I think AoS is silly. But it doesn't change the above.

Tyel wrote:

But for me at least some of this stuff is just bad. Compare say the 2002 High Elf spearmen, archer and Silver Helm sculpts to the newer (2020?) Lumineth stuff. I think they are just much better models. Will they rank up as well (especially the spearmen)? I don't know - but with bigger bases maybe.

The lumineth are awful designs. There are some improvements over the high elf sculpts, in particular hand sizes, but the weird patches of scale armour, bows with multiple strings and silly hats are not great choices.

I don't mind the kangaroos.

Personally, I would spend current GW prices on certain old kits. Tomb King, even the older (and uglier, imo) models, sell for incredible amounts on Ebay. Same for a lot of heroes, lords, and named characters.

I'm hoping that they just return to a steady MTO system for characters that wouldn't exist during the Old World setting (Azhag, Thorgrim, Kurt Helborg, etc) since I'm not sure they're as likely to return

The Black Adder wrote:

Tyel wrote:

But for me at least some of this stuff is just bad. Compare say the 2002 High Elf spearmen, archer and Silver Helm sculpts to the newer (2020?) Lumineth stuff. I think they are just much better models. Will they rank up as well (especially the spearmen)? I don't know - but with bigger bases maybe.

The lumineth are awful designs. There are some improvements over the high elf sculpts, in particular hand sizes, but the weird patches of scale armour, bows with multiple strings and silly hats are not great choices.

I don't mind the kangaroos.

I don't like the Lumineth myself, but their designs are straight outta 80s/90s high fantasy and sci-fantasy comics, stuff like what Moebius etc. drew. It's a style that's beloved by many.

 Souleater wrote:
Are units such as Melusai likely to get rules in TOW?

Personally - with absolutely nothing to back it up - I doubt it. But it would be awesome if they did. I'd love to see Warlock Bombardiers get rules too.

And the opposite! I would totally dig Bretonnians and Tomb Kings rules for AoS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
Also, I will say, I'm fine with them releasing the knights again. They are damn good looking for their time, and still do relatively today. They were good kit.

Agreed. The Empire Knights too. I have really missed a number of "standard" fantasy kits like Knights, Men-at-Arms, Orc Boyz, Goblins, Empire and Dwarf artillery, and most of the High Elf range.

Bret knight looks nice, though black and red seems a bit weird as a choice for the representative studio army.

Empire Knights already looked outdated in the old days with the new light Cavalry kits

compared to the Perry Knights which are already old too, no real reason to buy the GW ones as they don't have anything unique compared to those

 kodos wrote:
Empire Knights already looked outdated in the old days with the new light Cavalry kits

compared to the Perry Knights which are already old too, no real reason to buy the GW ones as they don't have anything unique compared to those

What about the ones RIDING DEMIGRYPHS!?! Surely not a sign that GW was desperately searching for an excuse for new models.

 kodos wrote:
Empire Knights already looked outdated in the old days with the new light Cavalry kits

compared to the Perry Knights which are already old too, no real reason to buy the GW ones as they don't have anything unique compared to those

Of course there is a reason to buy them. It's just that you don't have it.

Completing your army with the same models so that it stays coherent is one of them.

Besides, there are Mantic Games fans of their outdated elves and still seek to buy them at this price. It's simply because they like them. That's why there are people who are happy to see the same bretonnian line coming back to life.


Obviously, that is assuming GW doesn't propose new miniature sculpts for sale instead.

I'm all for the old kits coming back into production in some manner, even if I will be disappointed at the inevitability (and near confirmation) of it being the 6th Ed. versions for Bretonnians (not that I could realistically expect otherwise). Give me a MtO run of the older 5th Ed. metals and I'd be far more excited.

I am sure there will be people paying 20€ or more for a single 20 year old plastic model because there is GW on the box because they like them more than the identical designed models from a different company that costs 2€ per model has better quality

given that people argue that Warhammer needed to die because of the low sales, coming back with the same stuff that did not sell just for those people that still want them, expect the price to be much higher than current AoS stuff simple because GW needs to make money with low amount of expected sales

of course I can be wrong, but taking the last Made to Order and CC model prices, expecting the old Warhammer models to be cheaper than ebay is naive

talking about the old metal stuff is a different story and there would be many more buying them because those were also the designs that sold well during the time Warhammer was still alive

Sarouan wrote:
Obviously, that is assuming GW doesn't propose new miniature sculpts for sale instead.

because this is what GW said, that they bring the old stuff back and not new sculpts of old designs

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
I'm all for the old kits coming back into production in some manner, even if I will be disappointed at the inevitability (and near confirmation) of it being the 6th Ed. versions for Bretonnians (not that I could realistically expect otherwise). Give me a MtO run of the older 5th Ed. metals and I'd be far more excited.

I think semi-professional recasting have taken much of that old metal marked already, and I believe GW knows it. Any return has to be the plastic 6th kits.

I see prices on Ebay being lower than they should be, also for originals because a part of the nostalgia marked can get their fix from recasting. It also seeps into the regular retro-marked when people who dont know they are buying recasts make their purchases, happy to get grail knights or dogs of war for what seems like a fairly decent price.

6th also seems to be a sweet spot as far as numbers of new players still around willing to pay for it. It launched in 2000, coincided with the rise of the internet era globalization of the game and the popularization of geekdom and fantasy when HP and Lotr became big hits. Anyone who entered during 6th era as teens are about 20 years older now, so 35-45 cirka, which means they have loads of money to spend, and are far more numerous than older grognards.

Same phenomenom is observable with the romantication of 3rd edition 40k.

I think we can bear a rebasing, and perhaps even dare dream of a relaunch of the Mordheim game in some version or another? Tuomas Pirinen and a few others were actually posting a photograph of themselves working at a table for a single project for GW last year. Could just be as consultants for The Old World, or it could mean more. I hope the latter.

 kodos wrote:
I am sure there will be people paying 20€ or more for a single 20 year old plastic model because there is GW on the box because they like them more than the identical designed models from a different company that costs 2€ per model has better quality

given that people argue that Warhammer needed to die because of the low sales, coming back with the same stuff that did not sell just for those people that still want them, expect the price to be much higher than current AoS stuff simple because GW needs to make money with low amount of expected sales

of course I can be wrong, but taking the last Made to Order and CC model prices, expecting the old Warhammer models to be cheaper than ebay is naive

talking about the old metal stuff is a different story and there would be many more buying them because those were also the designs that sold well during the time Warhammer was still alive

Sarouan wrote:
Obviously, that is assuming GW doesn't propose new miniature sculpts for sale instead.

because this is what GW said, that they bring the old stuff back and not new sculpts of old designs

eBay probably isn't the best point of comparison (even if it's the most obvious for the market in old miniatures) just because of the pretty wild variation in what sellers seem to think something is worth.

I'm glad for everybody getting to use their old models! But I feel like I can't be the only person excited because they are going to keep the same scale on future ones!

(I'm not always a fan of heroic proportions, but given that the problem areas are often things like hand size and torso length, and those are easy to fit with spare bits from victrix/WGA/and others, a little bit of hobbying for the torsos, I'm pretty happy.

And of course INTENSELY curious about what it will mead for lizardmen models.

 kodos wrote:
I am sure there will be people paying 20€ or more for a single 20 year old plastic model because there is GW on the box because they like them more than the identical designed models from a different company that costs 2€ per model has better quality

given that people argue that Warhammer needed to die because of the low sales, coming back with the same stuff that did not sell just for those people that still want them, expect the price to be much higher than current AoS stuff simple because GW needs to make money with low amount of expected sales

of course I can be wrong, but taking the last Made to Order and CC model prices, expecting the old Warhammer models to be cheaper than ebay is naive

talking about the old metal stuff is a different story and there would be many more buying them because those were also the designs that sold well during the time Warhammer was still alive

Sarouan wrote:
Obviously, that is assuming GW doesn't propose new miniature sculpts for sale instead.

because this is what GW said, that they bring the old stuff back and not new sculpts of old designs

WHFB had low sales/failed because it was difficult and expensive to get into, in part because of the large amount of models it generally required, and because it just didn't really get any significant attention from GW. Bringing the game back only to make the exact same mistakes that got it replaced in the first place would just be absurd. Even more so would pricing the kits at more than AoS stuff when that still uses quite a few of the WHFB kits anyway.

When you don't update anything for years, ignore fans wanting some form of errata and fixes that tournies turned to Swiss formats, and a model release that starved many a fan, yea, I would say low sales.

There was near nothing to buy for a large time, and when there was, it was already over.

 Overread wrote:
*watches people arguing over if they'd pay current GW prices for "old" kits*


You guys do realise that probably a good half or more of AOS currently on sale kits are "old kits" right?

Also there's a MASSIVE number of old metal ranges of models still on sale in various scales. Heck Reaper have a huge backlog of metal and resin and bones sculpts that are all pretty old.

Heck Tyranids are getting a facelift and a good chunk of their models, like Gaunts, are from 3rd edition.



You can argue all you want, but yeah people do and are spending money on older kits even if new tech, new sculpting styles and methods are around.

Please, give me a link to where GW is selling the last generation of Bretonnian kits. Those are the main ones I'm interested in.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Overread wrote:
*watches people arguing over if they'd pay current GW prices for "old" kits*


You guys do realise that probably a good half or more of AOS currently on sale kits are "old kits" right?

Also there's a MASSIVE number of old metal ranges of models still on sale in various scales. Heck Reaper have a huge backlog of metal and resin and bones sculpts that are all pretty old.

Heck Tyranids are getting a facelift and a good chunk of their models, like Gaunts, are from 3rd edition.



You can argue all you want, but yeah people do and are spending money on older kits even if new tech, new sculpting styles and methods are around.

Please, give me a link to where GW is selling the last generation of Bretonnian kits. Those are the main ones I'm interested in.

Nowhere. Yet. They're pretty much confirmed to be coming in some capacity though.

Screw new models, sell me old ones. I want metal Diaz Deamonettes and seekers on general release.

 The Phazer wrote:
Screw new models, sell me old ones. I want metal Diaz Deamonettes and seekers on general release.

GW prices would actually be cheaper than ebay prices for them!

So the Old World preview is being paired with HH and doesn't have it's own one like Sigmar or 40k....Is that to reinforce that Sigmar and OW can coexist like 40k and HH or is it because they aren't previewing a lot I wonder?