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A news setting/expansion that features the armies that are not yet covered, of course this is possible

Problem is rather "when", as does not help to tell people their proper army book is 5+ years after release

and saying that pdf rules are enough when the core has army books?
Compare this to still need to use the 8th Index to play your army in 10th 40k, because having rules is enough and it is playable


And were are now all the people talking about Warhammer Fantasy was not worth keeping and needed to be replaced?
GW is picking the game up were they left it, so if it was not worth playing and a dead game back in 8th, why should the very same game now be different?
Why should it now not be DOA with the very same strategy that killed it?
Why should people now buy models that did not sell back than because they were just bad?

the only reason I can think if is because fanboys are going to spend a 1000€ per army, praising the 30 year old models being still better than everything and the rules the best ever seen without ever opening the boxes and playing the game



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the release/announcement

Looking at it again it very much feels now that it was cut down because they got a new deadline to bring the game back until the end of the year and this is the best they can do combined with not being allowed to use anything that is still in AoS (like they needed to wait for the Dawnbringer in AoS to be able to get Empire back to TOW)

Hence we see High Elves because there a new ones in AoS, Wood Elves because only the Spirits made it (and we don't get those in TOW -> old metal treeman instead of the new plastic one) but not Skaven because their old models are still the core of the AoS faction

My guess is we see the same as with Necromunda, a cut down release to get something this year, narrative books with armies to cover the next year, a proper core rulebook after that and army books following
and depending on how well this goes and if they get replaced /new models in AoS the next wave of narrative books followed by army books of the other armies

The link didn't say that the "outer" races weren't part of the game. It said that they weren't part of the narrative.

I read this to mean that the primary focus will be on the nine races interacting with each other. But you can still get the others appearing from time to time. Druchii, for instance, can show up anywhere and at any time due to raiding - either something aimed explicitly at the high elves (who, we're told, maintain outposts along the coasts), or a slave grab that's particularly prominent for some reason (maybe it delayed Empire troops needed for a campaign; or the locals mistakenly thought the raiders were High Elves from a nearby outpost, and a punitive expedition was launched). The core nine are going to get the most updates - at least initially (which will be an unusual situation for the Tomb Kings, to say the least). But I would be very surprised if the others didn't periodically make cameo appearances in the on-going narrative, with accompanying army lists for the armies showing up in those specific events.

For that matter, if the narrative ever reaches Praag, then the Dark Elves pretty much *must* show up at that point, since they launch a massive invasion of Ulthuan at the same time that the forces of Chaos are attacking the Empire.

Also, just throwing this out there with no supporting evidence whatsoever, but Malerion is still missing from AoS (add him to the game already!). It wouldn't surprise me if there's a desire to avoid doing too much with the TOW Dark Elves until after Malerion and his elves are (finally) added to AoS, assuming that GW hasn't decided to postpone that indefinitely.

Kislev has had miniatures and army lists for ages. So if they were covering existing armies they should have covered Kislev at least.

They mentioned chaos dwarfs! And they only existed as a forge World army by the end of the game...

I do find it very bizarre that out of the armies they have decided to focus on, daemons isn't one of them. Baring bringing back perhaps a handful of kits, you have most of of the range available in plastic already. They just need an army book and some unit trays. GW then have a set of plastic minis that require singular area of shelf space but lets people buy further into not one, but THREE main range games. Not to mention side games like AoS Skirmish, Mordheim, Kill team etc. (I didn't count 30k, as I'm not actually sure if they use the daemons in that, but maybe its FOUR main range games!)

Sure, they make a lot of money selling people multiple armies for each of the games. But even if someone is only buying that one single force, they now have them in the position to have them drop a bit of cash every year for every main game update at a minimum.

The narrative that the PDF only forces have been given is baffling to me. Clear communication from GW would have gone a long way again, a simple '16 Armies was too much for our team to release at once so we decided to focus on these for now' would have been clearer than 'These armies don't fit the old world narrative'. Honestly the 'narrative' has been pushed to fit the releases more like. Tomb Kings make the narrative, but DE are not currently raiding Bretonnia? VC are flat out asleep and refuse to pop out to the empire for fast food runs?

I'm just going to treat this as the biggest fantasy made to order they have done. I (personally) don't see the point in fully supporting a game on the off-chance that they *might* release model ranges or battletomes for the missing forces at a later date 'if the game does well' (The communities words, not GWs). If other GW releases are anything to go by, we'll only have a 5 minute window to buy stuff on preorder day anyway. I've already dropped keeping up with AoS as I got sick of the FOMO sales. I will thank GW for flooding the market with more of the old kits helping lower the 2nd hand price on them.

Tsagualsa wrote:
It's not said that they'll do the actual war, the game is set in 'the decades leading up to it' and before the rise of Asavar Kul - the Great War is something like the End Times were for a long time for classic WHFB: constantly looming on the horizon, not actually happening

That was not the impression I got. It felt more like The Great War Against Chaos is like The Siege of Terra: It's coming eventually, but that's the end game of this particular historical era.

I can't imagine they'll pass up the opportunity to make a Magnus the Primarch Pious model for the game.

Kislev was only ever part of the Empire and not there in 8th, so we don't know yet if those units are covered or not, same with Daemons as part of Chaos Warriors (rather than the stand alone army)

the stand alone list was part of a campaign removed by the End Times, and it is important for GW that the End Times are real and the older releases are not

Chaos Dwarfs fit as GW clearly stated that all armies/models that were there in 8th will be playable with TOW = CD are in, Kislev is out (and FW being something standalone that has nothing to do with GW and is not official anyway was an outdated view already back than and mainly pushed by some ETC players as they wanted to reduce the numbers of armies for that event)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Scottywan82 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
It's not said that they'll do the actual war, the game is set in 'the decades leading up to it' and before the rise of Asavar Kul - the Great War is something like the End Times were for a long time for classic WHFB: constantly looming on the horizon, not actually happening

That was not the impression I got. It felt more like The Great War Against Chaos is like The Siege of Terra: It's coming eventually, but that's the end game of this particular historical era.

I can't imagine they'll pass up the opportunity to make a Magnus the Primarch Pious model for the game.

well, HH did not start with the Siege of Terra and an Emperor model either, and still don't have one

Eumerin wrote:
The link didn't say that the "outer" races weren't part of the game. It said that they weren't part of the narrative.

I read this to mean that the primary focus will be on the nine races interacting with each other. But you can still get the others appearing from time to time. Druchii, for instance, can show up anywhere and at any time due to raiding - either something aimed explicitly at the high elves (who, we're told, maintain outposts along the coasts), or a slave grab that's particularly prominent for some reason (maybe it delayed Empire troops needed for a campaign; or the locals mistakenly thought the raiders were High Elves from a nearby outpost, and a punitive expedition was launched). The core nine are going to get the most updates - at least initially (which will be an unusual situation for the Tomb Kings, to say the least). But I would be very surprised if the others didn't periodically make cameo appearances in the on-going narrative, with accompanying army lists for the armies showing up in those specific events.

For that matter, if the narrative ever reaches Praag, then the Dark Elves pretty much *must* show up at that point, since they launch a massive invasion of Ulthuan at the same time that the forces of Chaos are attacking the Empire.

Also, just throwing this out there with no supporting evidence whatsoever, but Malerion is still missing from AoS (add him to the game already!). It wouldn't surprise me if there's a desire to avoid doing too much with the TOW Dark Elves until after Malerion and his elves are (finally) added to AoS, assuming that GW hasn't decided to postpone that indefinitely.

When they say a faction is "not part of of the narrative we’re telling with The Old World", they are literally telling you that it's not part of the game. The Old World is a game, the game will be expanded through narrative, if something is not part of the narrative it will not be expanded upon and therefore will not be part of the game.

They give a clear explanation as to why the Dark Elves are not in the game, presumably the Dark Elves don't launch any raids into the Ild Workd during the time frame of the games setting and are looking inward.
.
My take is that the narrative will never get to the Siege of Praag (article us clear on three separate occasions that the setting is the decades BEFORE this event, not "before and DURING", but if they did the fact that thr Dark Elves attacked Ulthusn at the same time does not mean they have to include them. These are two separate events with no direct interdependency between them, it's not like the Dark Elf armies are parked right outside the gates to the city.

 kodos wrote:

well, HH did not start with the Siege of Terra and an Emperor model either, and still don't have one

Yep, and the games been around for what 10-15 years?

Likewise they told us from the getgo that the game was about the Imperial Civil War and that xenos were not Germaine to the narrative of the Horis Heresy... look at that, no xenos rules either.

Eumerin wrote:
The link didn't say that the "outer" races weren't part of the game. It said that they weren't part of the narrative.

I read this to mean that the primary focus will be on the nine races interacting with each other. But you can still get the others appearing from time to time. Druchii, for instance, can show up anywhere and at any time due to raiding - either something aimed explicitly at the high elves (who, we're told, maintain outposts along the coasts), or a slave grab that's particularly prominent for some reason (maybe it delayed Empire troops needed for a campaign; or the locals mistakenly thought the raiders were High Elves from a nearby outpost, and a punitive expedition was launched). The core nine are going to get the most updates - at least initially (which will be an unusual situation for the Tomb Kings, to say the least). But I would be very surprised if the others didn't periodically make cameo appearances in the on-going narrative, with accompanying army lists for the armies showing up in those specific events.

For that matter, if the narrative ever reaches Praag, then the Dark Elves pretty much *must* show up at that point, since they launch a massive invasion of Ulthuan at the same time that the forces of Chaos are attacking the Empire.

Also, just throwing this out there with no supporting evidence whatsoever, but Malerion is still missing from AoS (add him to the game already!). It wouldn't surprise me if there's a desire to avoid doing too much with the TOW Dark Elves until after Malerion and his elves are (finally) added to AoS, assuming that GW hasn't decided to postpone that indefinitely.

It says that are not part of the narrative for The Old World - as in, the game itself. When they say that those other armies aren't a part of this project beyond the free rules they're handing out just because people have those miniatures on their shelves, and they are not something being actively considered as part of this game, then taking that to mean they'll still show up and still get things is just odd. They outright say that the game only has rules to let you play those armies "as a service to fans" and "for old times sake", that is pretty much the same as saying they are not part of the game overall.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. They updated the faction listing. Funny.

 BertBert wrote:
I'm a bit surprised to see wood elves in there, but I don't hate it. Start with a smaller roster of supported factions and expand down the line. At least we are getting some solid info this time around.

They're smack bang in the middle of everything between the Brets and the Empire. It would be weird to not have them there.

Think of the big map from Total War Warhammer III. The Dark Lands were essentially this big empty "watch this space" for ages with a few random Orc tribes in there until the Chaos Dwarf DLC hit, then suddenly the entire area was filled with the faction that should be there. Can you imagine Athel Loren just being empty?

It makes sense geographically, but my point was rather that WEs are a fairly niche faction I wouldn't have expected to be in the focus right away. If we are going purely by geographics, High Elves have no business being part of the narrative outside of small trading settlements and Elftown in Marienburg, so GW's reasoning behind the inclusion and exclusion of factions in not that simple. I'm sure it's a mix of what they can justify in lore and whatever miniature ranges they deem most attractive or lucrative.

Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

Honestly, no idea. The new ones are basically impossible to rank up, even with bigger bases, and the old ones are a very popular classic kit. Marauders do not have that problem. It's feasible that the new Warriors can be used for e.g. Chosen in the context of TOW, and the classic kit gets re-released. But it's also possible that they double down on their 'the power of Chaos is at an all-time low' and shift Warriors to Elite or 1 per army and have the main body be formed by Marauders.

The new Chaos Knights and Chosen both come with Stormcast heads as trophies, and as I understand it they are sculpted onto components without alternative options included.
So that leaves 4 strong options:
A. Expect players to take a hobby knife to their new Chaos kits and carve the trophies away.
B. 1 in 5 Chaos Champions has apparently killed a metal wizard in personal combat.
C. Provide the old kits.
D. Never, ever mention it or visibly include the trophies in TOW media.

Personally I'm thinking D, with some players choosing to deal with A.

 BertBert wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. They updated the faction listing. Funny.

 BertBert wrote:
I'm a bit surprised to see wood elves in there, but I don't hate it. Start with a smaller roster of supported factions and expand down the line. At least we are getting some solid info this time around.

They're smack bang in the middle of everything between the Brets and the Empire. It would be weird to not have them there.

Think of the big map from Total War Warhammer III. The Dark Lands were essentially this big empty "watch this space" for ages with a few random Orc tribes in there until the Chaos Dwarf DLC hit, then suddenly the entire area was filled with the faction that should be there. Can you imagine Athel Loren just being empty?

It makes sense geographically, but my point was rather that WEs are a fairly niche faction I wouldn't have expected to be in the focus right away. If we are going purely by geographics, High Elves have no business being part of the narrative outside of small trading settlements and Elftown in Marienburg, so GW's reasoning behind the inclusion and exclusion of factions in not that simple. I'm sure it's a mix of what they can justify in lore and whatever miniature ranges they deem most attractive or lucrative.

It's Tolkienesque Fantasy. Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, and both Rivendell and Lothlorien Elves were always pretty near guarantees to be included.

 Asmodai wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. They updated the faction listing. Funny.

 BertBert wrote:
I'm a bit surprised to see wood elves in there, but I don't hate it. Start with a smaller roster of supported factions and expand down the line. At least we are getting some solid info this time around.

They're smack bang in the middle of everything between the Brets and the Empire. It would be weird to not have them there.

Think of the big map from Total War Warhammer III. The Dark Lands were essentially this big empty "watch this space" for ages with a few random Orc tribes in there until the Chaos Dwarf DLC hit, then suddenly the entire area was filled with the faction that should be there. Can you imagine Athel Loren just being empty?

It makes sense geographically, but my point was rather that WEs are a fairly niche faction I wouldn't have expected to be in the focus right away. If we are going purely by geographics, High Elves have no business being part of the narrative outside of small trading settlements and Elftown in Marienburg, so GW's reasoning behind the inclusion and exclusion of factions in not that simple. I'm sure it's a mix of what they can justify in lore and whatever miniature ranges they deem most attractive or lucrative.

It's Tolkienesque Fantasy. Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, and both Rivendell and Lothlorien Elves were always pretty near guarantees to be included.

It will be interesting to see just what they release or re-release for the Wood Elves. Their current stance got me thinking that it will probably be mostly non-spirit elves, with the odd non-spirit monster among them, and tree-people of all sizes are going to get a 'fluffy' reason for being AWOL in AOS-land.

 Breotan wrote:
- Necromunda (N17) saw significant releases in 2022 with the massive Ash Wastes box set, Nomads gang, Ridgehauler and vehicle upgrades for three gangs, Squats in plastic for the first time since... they were squatted.

Yes, which is why Necromunda does not qualify as a niche game in the same way as the examples I gave. It's front and centre right there with Blood Bowl in terms of mainline GW support.

 Breotan wrote:
- Aeronautica saw a campaign book, the Custodes aircraft, Aeldari Wraithfighters and Interceptors (both in plastic), and the Necron fliers.

All of those are FW resin, not plastic - with all associated quality problems and inaccessible pricing. Meanwhile, there is no starter set available for the game any more.

 Breotan wrote:
- Titanicus (AT18) did have a smaller release with the Dire Wolf, and some weapon upgrades but it was still something.

The fact that a single FW-only Titan and a handful of weapons is all the game has got illustrates my exact point. And again, no available starter set.

 Breotan wrote:
Yep, these games obviously died off as soon as they started (which is why they still have new stuff being released four or five years later).

'Dying off' doesn't have to mean completely discontinued, merely that releases are minor and/or limited to FW; I'd say that's exactly where Titanicus and Aeronautica fall. Given they are low-ish model count games they can, to a degree, get away with that, but it's not going to fly for ToW, which is going to require regiments of 20+ models. GW themselves have told us that not every faction is going to get full new plastic treatment (HH, and to a lesser extent Titanicus, prove that not even a one-faction Specialist game can manage that in a reasonable time frame), which guarantees some units will end up either in resin (and thus condemned to death by eye-watering pricing - just look at the Solar Auxilia) or only as MtO old kits sold for the same or higher price than they were originally.

One of the big reasons WHFB died was the obscene pricing for a functional unit. How could doubling down on that, without the excuse of model design costs for a lot of what will be available, lead to anything other than a second demise? After four years all we've seen is two character models and a handful of new parts, so how are we expected to see ToW as anything other than a flimsy excuse to try and sell old kits and a lip-service range of new models to all those GW alienated once already? If there were any kind of coherent and well thought out game behind all the smoke and mirrors, why do we know less than nothing about it after all this time?
It's a minimal effort project designed to exploit nostalgia; not a single bit of information we have about it suggests otherwise.

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

I think they go for the new kits. I think they will fit nicely in a square base unit, and the design looks almost like they intended them to look more old world than AoS. The same goes for the new goblin wolf riders.
On the other hand they might consider people just wanting to expand their old range, or people wanting nostalgia stuff like those classic goblin wolf riders instead of the new cool ones.
So the question is if its worth having two boxes for basicly the same unit. Probably not. What if they have a big discount box of fugly ol´ goblin wolfriders that people buy for AoS instead of the new design?

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

With the confirmed increase in base size I'm fairly certain it's going to be the new kits. Except if there is a different reason for that particular change.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They outright say that the game only has rules to let you play those armies "as a service to fans" and "for old times sake", that is pretty much the same as saying they are not part of the game overall.

It's worse than that.
If you're playing one of those armies then they'll technically be in the game, but as a legacy army.

Which is not a good experience. Having every game be an uphill battle because you've been left behind of the power creep wears you down and slowly builds up salt. Especially when there's no apparent intention to ever get to your army.
It'll be like using warscrolls against the extra rules of a Battletome or having an index army while everyone else is getting a codex (that when I left, what's it like now?).

The irony is that the main lines for this project (currently anyway) were cut and need reviving because (from what I gather) Bretonia and Tomb Kings were arguably the worst victims of this kind of thing in the first place.

GW keeps doing the same bs and will keep doing it.

 Fayric wrote:

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

I think they go for the new kits. I think they will fit nicely in a square base unit, and the design looks almost like they intended them to look more old world than AoS. The same goes for the new goblin wolf riders.
On the other hand they might consider people just wanting to expand their old range, or people wanting nostalgia stuff like those classic goblin wolf riders instead of the new cool ones.
So the question is if its worth having two boxes for basicly the same unit. Probably not. What if they have a big discount box of fugly ol´ goblin wolfriders that people buy for AoS instead of the new design?

They already showed the old goblin wolf riders, so chances are the kits is returning. It will be odd seeing both the 'old' and "new" versions of the same unit for sale but I'm a fan of mixing units like this. I think GW know though that the community tends to police itself, a lot of folk won't use the 'wrong' miniatures on the off chance of being shunned by their communities (However ridiculous that might be!)

As someone that has a main army of goblins, and having stormcast on squares for WFB, I welcome being able to buy old and new models!

Tsagualsa wrote:

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

Honestly, no idea. The new ones are basically impossible to rank up, even with bigger bases, and the old ones are a very popular classic kit. Marauders do not have that problem. It's feasible that the new Warriors can be used for e.g. Chosen in the context of TOW, and the classic kit gets re-released. But it's also possible that they double down on their 'the power of Chaos is at an all-time low' and shift Warriors to Elite or 1 per army and have the main body be formed by Marauders.

Gods, the marauders. Watch them do all this and still not update that sad little kit.

Voss wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

Honestly, no idea. The new ones are basically impossible to rank up, even with bigger bases, and the old ones are a very popular classic kit. Marauders do not have that problem. It's feasible that the new Warriors can be used for e.g. Chosen in the context of TOW, and the classic kit gets re-released. But it's also possible that they double down on their 'the power of Chaos is at an all-time low' and shift Warriors to Elite or 1 per army and have the main body be formed by Marauders.

Gods, the marauders. Watch them do all this and still not update that sad little kit.

It ought to be one of the oldest plastic kits still in production, right? Together with some ancient Skaven and Empire kits.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

It says that are not part of the narrative for The Old World - as in, the game itself. When they say that those other armies aren't a part of this project beyond the free rules they're handing out just because people have those miniatures on their shelves, and they are not something being actively considered as part of this game, then taking that to mean they'll still show up and still get things is just odd. They outright say that the game only has rules to let you play those armies "as a service to fans" and "for old times sake", that is pretty much the same as saying they are not part of the game overall.

A narrative isn't a game. A narrative is a sequence of events being told. They distinctly used the word narrative, and not the word game.

The reason we're told that those armies aren't part of the nine is because they didn't do much during the period. And that's fine. But not doing much, and doing absolutely nothing are not the same thing. For example, the Druchii do at least one very important thing during Asavar Kul's invasion, and that:s to launch an invasion of Ulthuan. So in that instance, they intrude on the narrative. They're still not really a part of it. They're still not part of the core group, as it's the only time they really make their presence felt during this period. But it's impossible to tell the narrative without an appearance by the Dark Elves.

I have enjoyed reading the wide range of reactions and emotions. So much remains unknown that I won’t worry about it yet. I will probably pick up the rules at launch unless they are just recycled 8th Edition which I already own. No rank and flank games are played in my local area now. 9th Age was around for a bit but then died too.

It helps that my armies are Orcs and Dwarfs. I would like to add Empire if the prices aren’t sky high.

Nothing more to say other than “Ravening Hordes” not “Ravening Hoards”. Bash it, if you wish, but use the right name.

Tsagualsa wrote:

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

Honestly, no idea. The new ones are basically impossible to rank up, even with bigger bases, and the old ones are a very popular classic kit. Marauders do not have that problem. It's feasible that the new Warriors can be used for e.g. Chosen in the context of TOW, and the classic kit gets re-released. But it's also possible that they double down on their 'the power of Chaos is at an all-time low' and shift Warriors to Elite or 1 per army and have the main body be formed by Marauders.

This is exactly what I was doing with my Oldhammer army. I have the classic kit as my mainline Chaos Warriors and started a Chosen regiment from Khagra's Ravagers that I was going to expand out when the new AOS Warriors box came out. That plan fell by the wayside but now I need to see what TOW will bring.

I’m curious how the empire will be done. Aren’t a lot of their models covered in Karl Franz bling? Might make it hard to bring back curtain kits since apparently TOW cares about lore for their setting

 Mallo wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

James12345 wrote:
Do we think they'll use the new aos chaos warriors kits or bring back the old ones that fit better on square bases?

I think they go for the new kits. I think they will fit nicely in a square base unit, and the design looks almost like they intended them to look more old world than AoS. The same goes for the new goblin wolf riders.
On the other hand they might consider people just wanting to expand their old range, or people wanting nostalgia stuff like those classic goblin wolf riders instead of the new cool ones.
So the question is if its worth having two boxes for basicly the same unit. Probably not. What if they have a big discount box of fugly ol´ goblin wolfriders that people buy for AoS instead of the new design?

They already showed the old goblin wolf riders, so chances are the kits is returning. It will be odd seeing both the 'old' and "new" versions of the same unit for sale but I'm a fan of mixing units like this. I think GW know though that the community tends to police itself, a lot of folk won't use the 'wrong' miniatures on the off chance of being shunned by their communities (However ridiculous that might be!)

As someone that has a main army of goblins, and having stormcast on squares for WFB, I welcome being able to buy old and new models!

They also showed a picture of wood elves with an old 6th edition treeman, despite the fact that the "new" plastic treeman was released for 8th edition fantasy battle and should be the treeman of choise even for TOW.
So, basicly, the pictures showed in articles may or may not be just old nostalgia pics. Perhaps, probably, the guys writing the articles dont get alot of clear information either.

Eumerin wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

It says that are not part of the narrative for The Old World - as in, the game itself. When they say that those other armies aren't a part of this project beyond the free rules they're handing out just because people have those miniatures on their shelves, and they are not something being actively considered as part of this game, then taking that to mean they'll still show up and still get things is just odd. They outright say that the game only has rules to let you play those armies "as a service to fans" and "for old times sake", that is pretty much the same as saying they are not part of the game overall.

A narrative isn't a game. A narrative is a sequence of events being told. They distinctly used the word narrative, and not the word game.

The reason we're told that those armies aren't part of the nine is because they didn't do much during the period. And that's fine. But not doing much, and doing absolutely nothing are not the same thing. For example, the Druchii do at least one very important thing during Asavar Kul's invasion, and that:s to launch an invasion of Ulthuan. So in that instance, they intrude on the narrative. They're still not really a part of it. They're still not part of the core group, as it's the only time they really make their presence felt during this period. But it's impossible to tell the narrative without an appearance by the Dark Elves.

The game covers "The Old World" narrative, that is what it is for and what they are doing with it. Those armies have been outright stated to not be part of that, it is in effect the same as them not being part of the game, because that narrative is what supplements/additions will be themed around as and when they appear. They're getting the free rules just "for old times sake" as "a service to fans", and that's it for their involvement. If they were getting more, than they would be part of the narrative.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:

Gods, the marauders. Watch them do all this and still not update that sad little kit.

It ought to be one of the oldest plastic kits still in production, right? Together with some ancient Skaven and Empire kits.

My Hormagaunts stamped with 'Gamesworkshop 2000' say hi. Though they may soon see replacement (but not yet assured they will).

Eumerin wrote:
A narrative isn't a game. A narrative is a sequence of events being told. They distinctly used the word narrative, and not the word game.

The reason we're told that those armies aren't part of the nine is because they didn't do much during the period. And that's fine. But not doing much, and doing absolutely nothing are not the same thing. For example, the Druchii do at least one very important thing during Asavar Kul's invasion, and that:s to launch an invasion of Ulthuan. So in that instance, they intrude on the narrative. They're still not really a part of it. They're still not part of the core group, as it's the only time they really make their presence felt during this period. But it's impossible to tell the narrative without an appearance by the Dark Elves.

They do distinctly use game, too:

The game will be set firmly within the Old World itself – the lands between the coast of Bretonnia to the west and the Worlds Edge Mountains to the east – during the decades immediately before the Great War Against Chaos and the Siege of Praag.

Nothing in the rest of the article suggests that legacy factions will be involved in the game and narrative. Quite the opposite:

Much of the action in the first wave of books and supplements takes place in and around the Border Princes – the barrier lands between the Empire and Orc territory. Accordingly, we will be focusing on nine core factions.

These armies will have rules published alongside the launch of the Old World, and will be the pivotal players in the events covered in narrative expansions and supplements.

The battles of Warhammer: the Old World take place in the decades immediately before the Siege of Praag.

Certain factions people remember from Warhammer Fantasy Battles are not part of the narrative we’re telling with The Old World, but will be provided with rules at the launch of the game.

These legacy faction army lists will be made available for free as pdfs as a service to fans who have these classic armies on their shelf, so they can still bring them to battle for old times sake.

Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms are all based far from the Old World and, during this period, are very inward looking and insular races.

I'm not sure how much clearer it can be: The game is set in the Old World, decades before the Siege of Praag. The first wave of books and supplements are taking place in and around the Border Princes. Their focus will be on nine core factions, who "will be pivotal players in the events covered in narrative expansions and supplements". Certain factions are not part of the narrative they are telling with the Old World; four of which are described as "during this period, very inward looking and insular", while the remaining two are out of action due to events that occurred prior to where The Old World narrative starts, and neither will be making a return until The Great War Against Chaos in any true capacity. Stating that the non-core factions will receive legacy army list pdfs as "a service to fans/can still bring them to battle for old times sake" does not suggest they have any plans to give new rules, models or lore for legacy factions.

If TOW succeeds beyond GW expectations, we might see an expansion and further resources allocated to the Old World team, bringing those legacy factions back proper. At the moment though, this game is stated (by GW and by many of the player base) to be akin to HH. With the heavy emphasis that the narrative is taking place in the decades before the Siege of Praag/Great War Against Chaos, we aren't going to see Ulthuan invaded, VC returning, Skaven swarming to the surface, or see Ogres, Lizardmen or Chaos Dwarfs becoming part of the narrative.

Sethrut wrote:


If TOW succeeds beyond GW expectations, we might see an expansion and further resources allocated to the Old World team, bringing those legacy factions back proper. At the moment though, this game is stated (by GW and by many of the player base) to be akin to HH, and with the heavy emphasis that the narrative is taking place in the decades before the Siege of Praag/Great War Against Chaos, we won't see Ulthuan invaded, or Skaven returning, or VC coming out of hiding.

Importantly, due to the fact that they are essentially saying that they currently have no further plans for these factions, even if TOW were to be wildly succesful far beyond GW's expectations, design work would on these factions would just start then, i.e. when they realize that. The logistics, lead times etc. involved, we can reasonably assume, would mean that from that point out, these factions would still be multiple years away, as they'd need to find a release slot for them, do all the production and shipping steps and so on and so on. Which in turn means that they're at least half a decade away, even if TOW was released next year. We don't know how far into the future GW has planned their release schedules, but we do know that their 'tentpole' products are designed 3-4 years in advance. The schedule itself probably goes even farther than that, subject to operational and management changes.