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 Taarnak wrote:
I find it a bit disappointing that they decided to bring old models back for this personally. I understand that this is also probably a minority opinion. I have no old armies anymore so the basing question is a moot point for me.

I was fine with having old kits in production while they produce new kits for factions (and of course being the majority of stuff people have for a while- stuff to get by until they get to the faction properly).
I'm less fine with old kits being the majority of stuff in the queue (though several factions had really nice modern kits that were axed for no reason, particularly wood elves)

Combined with new bases, I think they've immediately made a mess, and there's going to be a lot of flailing (internally and among potential customers) until they decide to do a TOW 2.0 (like HH2.0) or... not.

I feel GW selling old plastics cheap is possibly optimistic.

All I really want is the Sphinx back and some new TK skellies that are actually usable, buildable models.

Tyel wrote:
I feel GW selling old plastics cheap is possibly optimistic.

Depends, if you mean real-world-in-absolute-terms-cheap then you're out of luck, if you mean cheap-by-the-standard-of-what -GW-customers-are-conditioned-to-endure-cheap there might be some hope left. Anyway, it's hard to judge the appeal of a classic, 'warhammery' R&F game where about 3/4 of your expensive, painted unit is effectively just wound counters in this day and age, we might see a surprise either way.

If they're bringing back classic kits, those molds are long since paid for. GW could sell them for cheap to entice new players and still make a profit.

It may depend also on how the rules are structured. If we're returning to units of 4x4 then there will be less need for hundreds of models just to assemble a core force.

Tsagualsa wrote:



I wrote my answer before i saw your substantial edit, obviously we share a point of view on this project.

No harm done.

I don't think anyone will defend goldhänders once more. Or bloodknights. hopefully...

GW prices are not based on cost but on the market

GW could sell most kits at 50% and still make profit but they don't do it

If GW wanted a cheap entry into the game, we would see an easy to build starter set
Just old kits coming back, good chance we see ebay like prices

 kodos wrote:

Just old kits coming back, good chance we see ebay like prices

So Tomb Guard for 100-300$? Hardly.

According to the GW web store 20 Night Goblins are $45 and 10 Empire Troops are $35. Since these are the same set that will be coming back to the old world it would be safe to say the price point is somewhere around there.

Alternatively, 20 KoW Goblins are $37.50 and the average Conquest 12 man warrior kit is $40 to $50 a kit.

I am inclined to say this is a wash.

 catbarf wrote:
If they're bringing back classic kits, those molds are long since paid for. GW could sell them for cheap to entice new players and still make a profit.

Since they cut their own tools, all of their plastics are orders of magnitude cheaper for them to produce than if they didn't. Since that is the case, ALL of their plastics could be a lot cheaper than they are. I don't see the old stuff coming back at a price point any cheaper than the new stuff, personally; old molds or not.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
According to the GW web store 20 Night Goblins are $45 and 10 Empire Troops are $35. Since these are the same set that will be coming back to the old world it would be safe to say the price point is somewhere around there.

Alternatively, 20 KoW Goblins are $37.50 and the average Conquest 12 man warrior kit is $40 to $50 a kit.

I am inclined to say this is a wash.

Wait and see prices brought back at $85 for night goblins and €65 for empire troops.

I'm glad I have stacks of backlog for WFB. Seeing kits return will help knock the insane prices down for things like tomb kings, but I feel sorry for anyone needing to start an army from scratch. One of the biggest issues I foresee is the unbalanced pricing.

They are going to have to juggle selling those 16/20/24 model sets in numbers that make the game profitable & playable, and still convince people that similar models for AoS in sets of 5/10 are worth the same. Or we are just going to see those bigger sets of plastics with huge price increases to 'match' the AoS pricing scheme.

With the cost of the 5 AoS goblin wolf riders, I dread to think what the old world set is going to be.

 catbarf wrote:
If they're bringing back classic kits, those molds are long since paid for. GW could sell them for cheap

Are we talking about Games Workshop here?

 Paymaster Games wrote:
According to the GW web store 20 Night Goblins are $45 and 10 Empire Troops are $35. Since these are the same set that will be coming back to the old world it would be safe to say the price point is somewhere around there.

Alternatively, 20 KoW Goblins are $37.50 and the average Conquest 12 man warrior kit is $40 to $50 a kit.

I am inclined to say this is a wash.

Those are some odd cherries to pick.
GW makes amazing models (for what it's worth, good luck actually playing games with them), but don't come anywhere close to offering valye for money.

Let's include a few more kits in the comparison before declaring it "a wash":
I see $55 for 20 goblins from GW.
$75 for 5 cavalry.
$40 for 10 from GW, for the older kits.
Or $170 for a 35 model start collecting.
$40 for a single plastic character.

Then $65 for a battle tome.
Mantic sell a rulebook with all the lists for $50.

$37.50 for 20 plastic Mantic infantry.
You can get 40 goblins and 2 mincers in a $45 Ambush starter though.
Ambush is the low points game mode aimed at getting new players in.
The $165 starter set has 80 goblins, an 18cm giant and 33 other models.

Resin from Mantic is more expensive though.
Mantic are making their resin models available as stls through a subscription service to address that though.

Tyel wrote:
I feel GW selling old plastics cheap is possibly optimistic.

Especially after what happened with the Steel Legion M2O pricing - though I appreciate that was metal, not plastic.

GW are currently having trouble making enough product to meet demand.

I think it's very optimistic to expect the old kits to be priced as anything other than comparable to 40k/AoS/HH plastics.

Yeah I assume that they will just use their standard pricing structure.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yeah I assume that they will just use their standard pricing structure.

Just look at how they're pricing current FW HH stuff - 35€ for a pretty plain SM Librarian sculpt. 35€ for a torso with an Assault Cannon to stick into your tanks. 45€ for one dude with a small-ish back banner. 50€ for a Terminator character with not much bling. If prices are anyway near that they're too high. If that one Bretonnian dude we saw in the sneak peek was 40€, not many people would pull the trigger for what ultimately is a pretty generic fantasy knight.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yeah I assume that they will just use their standard pricing structure.

Just look at how they're pricing current FW HH stuff - 35€ for a pretty plain SM Librarian sculpt. 35€ for a torso with an Assault Cannon to stick into your tanks. 45€ for one dude with a small-ish back banner. 50€ for a Terminator character with not much bling. If prices are anyway near that they're too high. If that one Bretonnian dude we saw in the sneak peek was 40€, not many people would pull the trigger for what ultimately is a pretty generic fantasy knight.

I agree which does not bode well for the range

 Mr Morden wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yeah I assume that they will just use their standard pricing structure.

Just look at how they're pricing current FW HH stuff - 35€ for a pretty plain SM Librarian sculpt. 35€ for a torso with an Assault Cannon to stick into your tanks. 45€ for one dude with a small-ish back banner. 50€ for a Terminator character with not much bling. If prices are anyway near that they're too high. If that one Bretonnian dude we saw in the sneak peek was 40€, not many people would pull the trigger for what ultimately is a pretty generic fantasy knight.

I agree which does not bode well for the range

Also, due to the game still being pretty far out (by what we've been shown so far) it has ample opportunity to pick up a couple of GW's typical price increases until release

 GaroRobe wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
If they're bringing back classic kits, those molds are long since paid for. GW could sell them for cheap

Are we talking about Games Workshop here?

Yeah, Games Workshop, the company that loves to fleece you for every dollar but also is willing to cut you a deal (see: Start Collecting, new edition boxed sets) if they think it'll lead to you spending more in the long run.

It's been a while since they killed Fantasy, but they have to be aware that the enormous buy-in cost was part of what sunk the game. Using the old plastic infantry as lead-ins to the more expensive characters and special kits you need to actually build out an army could be a viable marketing approach.

I don't know if they will or won't. Just wouldn't make assumptions about pricing yet.

Luke82 wrote:
If you flip a 25mm base upside down, a 20mm base nestles in it quite nicely (and I would imagine 25mm bases will do the same with what ever base replaces them, too). Saves a fortune on spaced movement trays, and means models can be used in older editions as well.

Sir you are wise.

For the people chiming in about pricing, you'll realize GW sells 10 tactical (or intercessors) for $60 for 40k and 20 tactical MKIII for $80 for 30k right? Different price points can exist between different games, I think that example illustrates it perfectly and likely what we see in ToW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Luke82 wrote:
If you flip a 25mm base upside down, a 20mm base nestles in it quite nicely (and I would imagine 25mm bases will do the same with what ever base replaces them, too). Saves a fortune on spaced movement trays, and means models can be used in older editions as well.

After reading through all the criticism (some warranted) in this thread, it's nice to see something positive and incredibly useful posted here.

Prices will be better discussed when the miniatures will actually get released, anyway. We don't even know how many years it will take and in what economic turmoil we will be at that time.

Mozzamanx wrote:

So we now have a game mode that is not readily compatible with anything else and does not provide equal support to all its factions. For veteran WFB players it does not seem at all appealing to rebase anything, even if I end up playing TOW as a ruleset.

It's not for the armies you already possess for sure. The question isn't the same for new collections.

As for using them for other game systems...actually, other rule sets work very well with bigger square bases.It's just a matter of bigger footprint of the unit on the battlefield, that's all. It's not as game breaking as you may think. Well, unless you play hardcore competitive tournaments, but people recycling miniatures from another game usually don't use them for that reason anyway.

laser cut MDF base-conversion trays with a sheet of tin will still be an ideal means of playing ToW with old armies if ToW is any good, but I do like the 25mm upside down base thing. Bravo!

I'm still just glad to have to the old units coming back, even modern GW prices are a fraction of the ebay stupidity in recent years. If I could just get a High Elf Noble kit for less that $100 then that would be great. New kits will be lovely, but I am 100% here for old kits returning. $60 for Witch Aelves is dumb, but $120+ for 5 Dragon Princes is beyond the pale.

I really really REALLY hope the rules are based on the boxes. A return to the hordes units of 8th would kill this game dead dead dead dead dead. But man, if an elite unit of 10 Swordsmasters could be as effective as a unit of 20 Night Goblins then that would be amazing.

Dear GW, please bring back normal units max 20, elite units max 10, amen.

This is what a unit of swordsmasters looks like on flipped bases. It’s not perfect visually but it works pretty well, and can keep a bag of bases ready if you end up playing someone who is sniffy about playing on old bases.

Thanks for the picture, Luke82 ! Indeed, it's genius.

You will still need a movement tray in the end, though.

Yep, 100%. If you’re starting from scratch you may as well go for new base sizes, or the spaced trays. This idea is more for those of us already down the fantasy rabbit hole and facing a quandary about rebasing. I’ve got something like 90,000 points of painted stuff, all on their own home made magnetised movement trays, rebasing is just not really a viable option. This way I can quickly flip a lot of models into spare bases and repurpose some of my 25mm movement trays quickly and easily (we’ll have to wait and see on the other sizes though!)

chaos0xomega wrote:
A few months ago the warhammer Facebook page replied to me saying that they hadnt heard anything about plans to update the Daemon Prince but to keep an eye out in the future. A month later they announced the new Daemon Prince kit. The people that run the social media teams know basically nothing about long term plans and always frame everything in the context of "who knows what might happen woooo anything is possible ahhhh".

Wait, you think they didn't know about the new Daemon Prince and, that if they'd just been pre-informed about a new DP prior to your question that they would have told you and revealed it to the world via Facebook answering some random person's question? Really?

Oh man, if I could get Dragon Princes and White Lions kits...I would be pretty happy.

Still think it is just vaporware. I'm trying hard to expect nothing from GW so I don't feel let down.

Just wait until they release Epic, THEN we have a price discussion!

For the Empire - I wish they bring back the old early 2000s States Troops and those ugly 2006 ones stay with AoS or dissapear completely...