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For Night Goblins, they could just bring back the old ones from before 2006, which fit better to the common Goblins.

For Steam Tanks, they just could bend their own Background?

I don't think there's anything to bend, Steam Tanks are completely fine for TOW. They've been around for hundreds of years. If anything there should be more of them because fewer have been destroyed.

Do you think FW will also make some MTO type thing with all the resin kits they had?

 BertBert wrote:
Did they reveal yet whether all base sizes will be upscaled to the next increment or just 20->25mm?

To my knowledge GW hasn't said anything new on the topic yet. They probably don't want to give the game away before they have their own base packs to sell, for fear of customers turning to third parties.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Cathay used it way back before the time of Nagash and exported some to Lahmia to fight him.

It's best not to put any stock in what the Time of Legends books have to say. The author wasn't very respectful of Nehekharan history, to put it politely.

On the topic of Steam Tanks, they exist during the events of the Old World. Its creator, Leonardo di Miragliano constructed them in the 2000s, so if we are set during the 2200s, they've been active for about 200 years. In fact, there would be more Steam Tanks in service now, than there would be during the time Modern Fantasy is set, since about 4 of them get destroyed and they can't be rebuilt. We know of at least one Steam Tank that took part during the Great War Against Chaos, the Deliverance, and it was built in 2035.

Leonardo also created the Imperial School of Engineers in 2012. This is where we get the Steam Tanks and war wagons from. Before, blackpowder weaponry was simple cannons and handguns, but with the School of Engineers, we get repeater handguns, Hochland Longrifles, Grenade Launchers, and pigeon bombs. The First Helblaster Volleygun was made in 2253 and was an experimental weapon fitted on a Steam Tank, and was made by the same person who made the repeater handgun.

The most important part that changes in the 2200s is the founding of the first foundry and Imperial Gunnery School. This is where the current blackpowder weapons would be better refined and come even close to dwarf guns. Malakai Makaison is even a lecturer at this institute during modern Warhammer Fantasy.

Steam Tanks and other experimental weapons fit perfectly in the Old World. Maybe the Mechanical Horse and Helstorm are potentially made post Great War.

 Geifer wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
Did they reveal yet whether all base sizes will be upscaled to the next increment or just 20->25mm?

To my knowledge GW hasn't said anything new on the topic yet. They probably don't want to give the game away before they have their own base packs to sell, for fear of customers turning to third parties.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Cathay used it way back before the time of Nagash and exported some to Lahmia to fight him.

It's best not to put any stock in what the Time of Legends books have to say. The author wasn't very respectful of Nehekharan history, to put it politely.

Personally I feel the ToL authors did a great job of putting at least some flesh on the barest of bones that existed and given that Warhammer lore does change and shift through editions I think its as valid as anthing else.

Nehekhara lore before them was very vey sparse.

Agreed re the bases sizes

 CragHack wrote:
Do you think FW will also make some MTO type thing with all the resin kits they had?

I imagine they'll reserve that decision until they see how popular it is, but I would love a Merwyrm.

No. No you will not.

As gorgeous as the sculpt is, the production absolutely was terrible for the kit.

Regarding gunpowder, the Nuln Gunnery School was set up around the 1990s IC, according to WFRP2E, I'm not saying they will go with it (I bloody well hope so) but it's not a deal breaker for it either.

Vlad was decapitated by a cannon ball in Bogenhof during the Vampire Wars in both the Vampire Counts army books 7th and 8th editions (pages 15 and 12 repsectively), and Konrad army was mauled by Mortars at Kleiberstorf (VC8EP13,14,21,23. VC7EP16,17,31). The Vampire Wars was a little over 200 years before the Great War.

Leonardo went to the Empire and worked for the Prince of Altdorf in 2012 IC in the 5th edition Dogs of War timeline, so that's also before the Great War, which TOW is supposed to be set a short spell prior. He set up the "Stephan Franz School of Engineering" in Altdorf according to White Dwarf Magaine #296 UK (page 50) and made a lot of stuffs. Some contradictory lore about the Steam Tanks thereabouts, but one of the first Steam Tanks "the Conqueror" had its hull striking in 2025 IC (Unifoms and Heraldry of the Empire page 67), and Deliverance entered service in 2035 IC. Again, well before the Great War.

So that leaves just the Repeater Handguns & Pistols, Helstrums and Hellblasters, which were invented by Imperial Engineering School engineers, and never had a specific date of invention.

Other things that shouldn't appear as they are in 8th -- Reiksguard Knights, Altar of Sigmar (commissioned by Magnus the Pious himself after he became Emperor, so after the Great War), and all the Colleges of Magic stuffs.

Reiksguards are easily resolved, first as the video game Mark of Chaos simply called their Reikland Knights "Reiklander Knights" during the campaign, which is set right after Asvar Kul's defeat, GW can just invent a new Order of Knights; or, since they did get a separate kit in the 6-8th span, just let players color their own Orders. White-steel armour plus red plumes are that unique, com'on.

Altar of Sigmar is a chariot, just say Grand Theogonists had their own mounts, and war chariots had been an option some chose to build for themselves. That Golden Girffon is just some other statue made by a prior Grand Theogonist/Arch Lector, and Volkmar is not Volkmar, easy.

Oh, also in VC army book 8th edition page 15, Mannfred was cut down by the Stirland Count on a Griffon, so Griffon mounts are certainly not out of the question (because the Vampire Wars ended some 150 years before the Great War). There were also supposed to have Knights of the White Wolves riding giant wolves and Cockatrice-riding Knights in the lore text of the Demigryph Knights in 8th edition, long-lost to legends, but also viable to be added in TOW if FW so incline (will they? won't they? I dunno, not that invested in them either way).

The Wizards... now, I know some are expecting Warlocks/Hedge Wizards etc., also possibly implement some of them as priests (like of Taal for Amber, Shallya for Jade), and I see that. But, there's another possibility:

In fantasy roleplay 1st edition the Realm of Sorcery supplement, there used to be a lot of magical schools in the Empire -- to be sure the Colleges were still established by Teclis and law-codified by Magnus, but other existed for various reasons.

The Middenheim Guild of Wizards and Alchemists was built early in the 500s IC, because Middenheimers didn't care much for Unberogen laws. This led to a "Wizards' War" during the late 1900s when many of their wizards turned out to be necromancers and daemonologists. The guild had to clean house themselves. Notably, Dieter Helsnicht was "was a great and renowned wizard who lived in the Empire city of Middenheim during the Time of the Three Emperors" in the 4th edition Undead army book, and this lore stayed with him in 5th edition and 8th edition, though whether he was known as a Wizard in 8th during his time in Middenheim was not mentioned. Cubicle 7 revived the guild in their WFRP 4th edition remaster of the original Enemy Within campaign, and honestly I think it's workable for Middenheim to openly support the guild when the Wolf Emperor was bascially independent from the electoral system anyway.

And in Talabheim there's a separate school of magic in Realms of Sorcery, Talabheim Battle College was founded in 1361 IC by a hedge wizard (p37). 1361 is a good year because that's right after the still canonical separation of Talabheim under "Emperess" Ottillia. The original backstory of the Battle College was that Ottilia felt the pressure from the elected Emperor in Stirland and had to raise her defense. That's long rectonned, of course, since the subsequent battle between Ottila and the elected Emperor, as portrayed in "Empire At War" background book, featured no magic users on either side.

Now, I am of the opinion the Empire shouldn't have any (official) schools of magic outside of the Colleges of Altdorf, but, the Age of War and Three Emperors was a chaotic time, the other claimaints, especially Middenheim and Talabheim, which prosecuted the Sigmarite faith, had no reason to follow Sigmar's objection against sorcery and could have easily created their own haphazard magical traditions. Human magicians, after all, existed long before the Empire. These outlaw schools can then be purged and consolidated when Teclis arrived in the Empire and conducted his teachings of the human wizards as portaryed in 6-8E Empire army book as well as WFRP2E, thus leaving one, legally recognised school of magic in the whole of Empire.

It'd be fitting, in my opinion, that Talabheim fielding "not-Amber Wizards" in the form of Shamans, after the Taalic theme, and perhaps "not-Jade Wizards" also, being something something about Rhyea the mother goddess. Middenheim has the Shaman-theme covered with the Warrior Priests of Ulric, but they can leveage the guild to field Bright Wizards and Gold Wizards (what with alchmey and all that).

Marienburg, it's got a college of Sea Magicks in WFRP1E: Marienburg: Sold Down the River, so after the breakdown of Countess Magritta's election (mentioned also in Mordheim in 1970s), Marienburg would be effectively a separate claimaint, the school of "Sea Magicks" could then be used to house the Celestial, Light and Grey Orders. It's sadly that this "college" did not have a department for magic until after the great war, but Cubicle 7's 4th edition Roleplay supplement Sea of Claws stated that whilst the department of sea magicks was not officially established until 2310IC, study of magic existed before Teclis' arrival. So it can still fit.

According to WarCom, there will be a rules article this week.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/29/sunday-preview-the-squats-of-jardlan-seek-aid-in-the-underhive/

I hope it's a summary of all the rules that'll be a non-starter for me. That way I know better than to spend money on the book.

They're getting that rules preview out early. Then again:

GW wrote:... our highly anticipated first look into rules from Warhammer: The Old World...

Maybe we shouldn't expect too much of a "first look",

I expect a "preview" which tells us just nothing.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/30/old-world-almanack-your-first-look-at-the-rules/

Nothing too dramatic there to be honest beyond magic being separated out between phases. Game structure seems to be at least tacitly very similar to latter editions. It's when we get into the meat of combat rules that it'll get particularly interesting.

Hope they go with universal special rules again like before

Well, that's not a huge picture, but it sounds nice so far. Excited to hear more over the next few months. Just a bit too far off to really care much, myself.

Interesting about magic being broken up into the phases. Need to see the full rules before I decide if I like it

It was a very safe preview.

Shows enough to showcase some differences from previous editions and get people talking. But not there isn't enough there for the neckbeards to really latch onto and complain about.

Some interesting tidbits there.

Obviously magic has changed quite a bit, but I’ll save comments for when we the bigger picture with all things wifwaf.

Rallying sounds interesting. More or less as it was, but -1 to Ld if below half strength, and you need a snake eyes if below 25%.

That, I think I like. Whilst we don’t know if I can overrun routed units, on the assumption that option is still there, I now have some kind of incentive not to - like the chances of a shattered unit rallying being pretty slim.

It also sounds like it’ll distract my personal pet hate - min maxxing and multiple small units.

Pretty sure they mentioned Pushed Back at an earlier juncture, but I’m very interested to find out more, as it sounds less like combat results are literally Make Or Break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Utter Speculation? Pushed Back strikes me as something that could be linked to relative unit size. Like, if I have more ranks, or more wounds (to allow Ogres and the ilk some literal heft) you might end up pushed back by the difference if I win combat?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Utter Speculation? Pushed Back strikes me as something that could be linked to relative unit size. Like, if I have more ranks, or more wounds (to allow Ogres and the ilk some literal heft) you might end up pushed back by the difference if I win combat?

Warmaster had literally that. The whole combat was pushed back a number of cm equal to the combat result. It would be interesting to see that make it's way into the 28mm game.

It’s going to be an interesting mechanic with any luck.

Whilst I barely dabbled with Warmaster, I’m a very old hand at Warhammer.

If I can no longer depend on driving my beloved Chariots into and over their target unit (multiple chariots on a single charge was my style, for maximum carnage), then they’re going to be more vulnerable than ever to being bogged down. Which I don’t necessarily consider a bad thing!

Likewise Deathstar type units may lose some appeal if there’s the same risk that despite a healthy combat win, their flanks will be exposed to a counter charge.

Very, very intrigued.

Pushed back used to be a thing back in days of yore. Some of us have wanted it back since it disappeared because it gave you a chance to literally drive heavy combat units off objectives if you had the numbers.

"Casting Value: 7+"

I'm wondering if it is going to be like earlier editions of where you had a pool of magic dice and pick out how many dice you want to roll to achieve a 7+.

The things I pick up from this article is: they will do army specific items and spells, and the stuff dont look to be gamechangers, yet usefull.

 Fayric wrote:
The things I pick up from this article is: they will do army specific items and spells, and the stuff dont look to be gamechangers, yet usefull.

The horn that turns off flying seems pretty game changing. Especially since it appears that it can be used every single turn!

Depends how prevalent flyers are in the game.

 SgtEeveell wrote:
"Casting Value: 7+"

I'm wondering if it is going to be like earlier editions of where you had a pool of magic dice and pick out how many dice you want to roll to achieve a 7+.

Unlikely since there's no single phase.

Sounds more like 40k/aos. Roll 2d6, try to get casting value, maybe have dispel there that needs to roll above what caster rolled.

 Rihgu wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
The things I pick up from this article is: they will do army specific items and spells, and the stuff dont look to be gamechangers, yet usefull.

The horn that turns off flying seems pretty game changing. Especially since it appears that it can be used every single turn!

What did it do before - its not a new artefact.

Completely new from the ground up! But also kept complexity from old editions!

In the realm of 'new from the ground up' I have... unkind... thoughts about featuring a reroll 1s spell.

Turn structure seems workable (and familiar). Return of morale is nice, though double 1s for <25% is just pointless rolling.