Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After the disappointing first film I went in with low expectations, and found myself enjoying it. There's much better action this time around and the changes made are at least as interesting as those in the 1984 film.

As an adaptation of the 1965 classic book its still as bad as the 1984 movie. Where that one skimped on Paul's time with the Fremen, and changed the ending, this one removes the guild entirely and it amounts at best to a backwater skirmish than a war that threatens the fate of the universe. The Sardukar are eyewateringly crap and the Corrinos feel like tourists who wandered onto a WB's set by accident. And Zendaya got so upset that she stormed off the set and called a cab...

"Drive me off this picture!".

Still a good slice of sci-fi action and worth seeing on the big screen.

Yeah an update of the Navigator and Emperor scene would have been great.

Honestly I felt like Christopher Walken was kind of wasted as the Emperor

Walken was a hard miscast.

I was reading the comments on Mark Kermode’s review the other day (he thought Christopher Walken was a bit empty and didn’t fit the role) and a lot of people were suggesting that that’s the point. The Emperor is just an empty mouthpiece for others*, so the fact that his character doesn’t have agency and doesn’t really do anything is actually the point.

* In the book, this is the guild, in this version they’ve made it the BG.

Also, while I’m not as harsh on it as SamusDrake, now that I think about it, they have kind of lost the “he who controls the Spice, controls the universe” element; it’s much more about the Fremen just being kick-ass fundamentalists than the fact that they literally control all of intergalactic travel and commerce. They talk about it a couple of times, but it’s not really the hammer at the core of the plot like it is in the book (probably tied to minimising the guild’s presence in the film).

I dunno. The mention how big of an issue it is that the Fremen are constantly destroying/cutting spice production and how it's causing a cascade of issues for everyone else.

The Emperor doesn't show up to feth with the Fremen. He shows up to put the Harkonens in their place for failing to meet the needs of the empire. Paul just uses it as the opportunity he needs.

Dune (the book) has a LOT of factions, characters, and themes. The job description for these films was to adapt the book in 5-ish hours of cinema that will attract general audiences.

Viewed through that lens and knowing that things had to be streamlined...I have a hard time making a strong case for the Guild getting more screentime. They're more of a behind-the-scenes power in the story, and not a direct antagonist to Paul.

I'd lay money that Villeneuve "saved" the Guild screentime for Messiah. We'll likely get the named Navigator character from the book in that film -- who does present as more of an adversary -- and that'll help audiences get their heads around that faction.

Finally got to see it and enjoyed it.

I'm not going to go over what has already been discussed I will just say that I feel they did the Sadaukar dirty. They are supposed to be an elite and dangerous force but in the film(s) they are incredibly basic, both aesthetically and in fighting. They never really feel like a threat and just seem to be jobbers.

What, you don't like the 'stand outside in the massive sandstorm' tactics?

Yeah, I would agree with that criticism. It seems that the director just wasn't really interested in showing any military aspects - I found most of the direction for soldiers and battle scenes to be lacking, despite every other thing in the two movies looking great.

This one was better than the first one in that regard, but it does make the Sadaukar look like chumps.

 Ahtman wrote:

I'm not going to go over what has already been discussed I will just say that I feel they did the Sadaukar dirty. They are supposed to be an elite and dangerous force but in the film(s) they are incredibly basic, both aesthetically and in fighting. They never really feel like a threat and just seem to be jobbers.

In the part one they were shown to be a threat at the very first fight, when they quickly killed Atreides force like they were nothing, after multiple failed attempts from Harkonnens. Later, in the movie they were sadly like you said.

Their intro, with the throat singing and drinking blood from crucified prisoners was pretty epic.

But they needed a more distinct look. They had beige armor and that was about it, while the Harkonans with the their pasty white skin and black leather were very distinct. Maybe they could have been more barbaric looking.

Ah well, it may have been too much to do. Honestly I'd have rather had the Navigators.

I think it was a bit of "Worf"-ing, like "oh these guys are real tough, but look how tough the Fremen are!"

But then they actually show the Harkonens being more of a threat to the Fremen throughout...so it doesn't quite work.

Agree on the navigators, a quick scene would be all that was needed.

One thing I'm definitely handing to this film - the Harkonnens. Rabban is quite a coward and Feyd is actually lethal and scary. Even the Baron had some good moments in this one. But the Sardukar want their grav-suits back...

 Da Boss wrote:
Yeah, I would agree with that criticism. It seems that the director just wasn't really interested in showing any military aspects - I found most of the direction for soldiers and battle scenes to be lacking, despite every other thing in the two movies looking great.

That's kinda true to the source material if I remember correctly though. The actual "campaign and final fight" take up like an insanely low number of pages in the book and are kinda beside the point.

I'll say this, more than anything this director seems to have understood not just the material but the authors intentions and he's brought that to the masses which after the disaster of the 1984 movie is impressive.

In fairness, it doesn't matter how good your soldiers are at stabbing things if a dozen vacuum cleaner kaijus and 10 million zealots who grew up on a planet's whose atmosphere is 5% combat stims/Forced Evolutionary Virus by volume come charging at you and your shields dont work.

Yeah, I just would have liked some scene of them being particularly competent to highlight that they were a dangerous fighting force.

I agree with Hulksmash otherwise, they really worked to get the themes and messages across, at least as far as it went with Paul.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Yeah, I would agree with that criticism. It seems that the director just wasn't really interested in showing any military aspects - I found most of the direction for soldiers and battle scenes to be lacking, despite every other thing in the two movies looking great.

That's kinda true to the source material if I remember correctly though. The actual "campaign and final fight" take up like an insanely low number of pages in the book and are kinda beside the point.

I'll say this, more than anything this director seems to have understood not just the material but the authors intentions and he's brought that to the masses which after the disaster of the 1984 movie is impressive.

Yep!

I see people online say that Lynch's movie was truer to the book, and then I think of heartplugs and weirding modules and kitty milking and Paul making it rain and a bunch of other stuff that really has nothing much of anything to do with the book or its themes.

I think Lynch nailed the atmosphere of the setting with his film. So much so even the new film has to play some homage to the vision in that film.

The fact that a few things like Heart Plugs and the Weirding Modules feature and are so much a pat of the film that people easily forget that they weren't part of the book, is honestly quite impressive and I think shows how well it captured the feeling of the book.


In much the same way that Lord of the Rings films nailed it and will likely define how those characters, setting, world and all look for a very long time.




I would say that the opening and up until the Freman part the Lynch film feels better paced and sequences better between scenes. The new Dune feels like a few political groups also act differently and the pacing feels off between scenes to me at least in the first film. The use of 2 films gives it far more time and certainly he Lynch film suffers from having to basically skip huge chunks of the Fremen part of the storyline and compress what they do show into a rush for the final fight.

Were the weird modules the sound guns? I did notice a distinct lack of sound guns in this version. “My name is a killing word.”

 AduroT wrote:
Were the weird modules the sound guns? I did notice a distinct lack of sound guns in this version. “My name is a killing word.”

Sadly only exclusive to DUNE: The kick-ass 80s edition.

 Overread wrote:
I think Lynch nailed the atmosphere of the setting with his film. So much so even the new film has to play some homage to the vision in that film.

The fact that a few things like Heart Plugs and the Weirding Modules feature and are so much a pat of the film that people easily forget that they weren't part of the book, is honestly quite impressive and I think shows how well it captured the feeling of the book.

In much the same way that Lord of the Rings films nailed it and will likely define how those characters, setting, world and all look for a very long time.

I would say that the opening and up until the Freman part the Lynch film feels better paced and sequences better between scenes. The new Dune feels like a few political groups also act differently and the pacing feels off between scenes to me at least in the first film. The use of 2 films gives it far more time and certainly he Lynch film suffers from having to basically skip huge chunks of the Fremen part of the storyline and compress what they do show into a rush for the final fight.

I really don't agree much with most of what you're saying here, but to each his own.

David Lynch is one of my favorite directors, and Dune is one of my favorite books, but I just don't think it's a very good movie or Dune adaptation. There's some good visual design work there, but that only goes so far. And these films will be far more defining and influential over the long run. General audiences actually like them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Yeah an update of the Navigator and Emperor scene would have been great.

Honestly I felt like Christopher Walken was kind of wasted as the Emperor

So some opinions probably not really spoiler heavy but i'll spoiler tag em anyway as well as a bunch of spoiler heavy things.



I didn't have as many problems with this movie as i did the last one. All i could think about the last hour or so of the film is i hoped i could go to the bathroom after the 3 hour or so movie. Jeez that movie was long.

Got in to see it yesterday. First time my wife and I have made it to a cinema in a very, very long time, so was a good excuse to get out.

Loved it, although it didn't seem quite as polished as part one. Agree with the earlier comments about it feeling more disjointed, like too much was trimmed along the way. A few changes from the book, but nothing that we had issues with, although Stilgar being used for comic relief once his fanaticism kicked in was a bit odd.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

Spoiler:

I was actually really disappointed with how they humiliated Dave Batista's character in this movie. He loses every fight in less than like 5 seconds (including one fight where he kisses his brother's foot), has a massive breakdown fit and fails at everything he does in this one. I don't know the books but in some ways i feel like this would've felt insulting for Dave Batista to play this role for this movie but i don't know. I suppose it could've been worse.

Just got back from the theaters.

Incredible.

Denise Villeneuve's Dune Cinematic Universe is better than Star Wars.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Just got back from the theaters.

Incredible.

Denise Villeneuve's Dune Cinematic Universe is better than Star Wars.

Innovative and original movie trilogy (and then some less great movies) versus two adaptations that fundamentally change the story because apparently Dune wasn't good enough as written.

trexmeyer wrote:
...versus two adaptations that fundamentally change the story because apparently Dune wasn't good enough as written.

Movie adaptions of books will always change stuff, for a whole slew of reasons that have nothing to do with whether or not the original story was 'good enough'.

And that's not inherently a bad thing. To paraphrase Sam Raimi, if you're just going to tell the exact same story, what's the point? You already have the original story.

So I went to see it for a second time yesterday (an exceptionally rare thing to do for me) and have reached a conclusion on how I feel about this film.

I feel this movie represents a new benchmark in science fiction film-making and is worthy of sharing the company of some of my most beloved and cherished examples of the genre (Alien, Aliens, The Terminator, Predator, The Empire Strikes Back, Blade Runner)

I’m shocked I feel this way as, being a lifelong fan of films in the genre, it is a very rare day indeed such a film rolls around, but after watching it a second time this is indeed the case.

Taken as a whole these two movies do so many incredible things in such a new and refreshing way I really can’t see anything coming along in some time that will represent a similar moment. The originality of the filmmaking here is significant and in particular the thing that impressed me the most both times was the manner in which alien, science fiction concepts were given such a feeling of grounded authenticity that I found myself never once questioning the world of giant worms, antigravity soldiers and psychic shaman warrior prophets in which I was engaging. It all seemed… perfectly reasonable.

THAT is a major win for a film like this.

Furthermore, although I agree with many of the gripes in this thread, I think the central story and its themes were handled with intelligence and grace and the gravitas of the story was palpable. It provokes genuine moments of reflection.

Denis has crafted a science fiction epic of considerable force here. This is a rarity. I am very curious how he is planning on wrapping this up. I cannot quite see how a third film is going to do anything other than depress most people given where we all know Paul’s journey is heading.

What are your thoughts on how he’ll handle the next film people?

Regarding the Sadukar. I’ve only read the first book, and if I remember rightly the best that can be said of them is that Stilgar says they put up a good fight. But they still all die.

They seem worse than Stormtroopers in the regard of being built up to be dangerous but suffer from getting so easily beaten.

Theaters in Egypt and India have intermission as a standard. These two films certainly needed one.

 Souleater wrote:
Regarding the Sadukar. I’ve only read the first book, and if I remember rightly the best that can be said of them is that Stilgar says they put up a good fight. But they still all die.

They seem worse than Stormtroopers in the regard of being built up to be dangerous but suffer from getting so easily beaten.

We see the danger of the sardaukar in the first film, when they annihilate the Atreides. The Atreides army was generally more than able to fight off the Harkonnen troops, but the Sardaukar were a different matter altogether