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How do!

So with yesterday’s reveal show, the mystery of Spryers, and the question of “where do they get those wonderful toys” has taken a twist. And it’s an ongoing mystery which, over the years, has had some breadcrumbs along the way.

First, there was Outlanders, the Necromunda expansion. This was our initial introduction. Described as the children of Hive Nobility, sent over the wall to hunt the plebs for fun. The four classes (Orrus, Yeld, Malcador and Jakara) each wore self-repairing high-tech combat suits sourced from off world at great expense. Not only were the suits self maintaining, but like Spidey’s suit from Homecoming, as the wearer gained experience, the suits would self-upgrade becoming ever more deadly and efficient. But as to their original source? Very much a mystery left hanging.

Fast forward a few years, and the Tau Codex arrived. And with its samples of their language. Regard.



Gosh…don’t some of those words and meaning seem….eerily familiar. Maybe it’s just linguistic coincidence. But the Tau are know for battlesuits and a high level of technology…. Could it be the Spyrer Suits are Tau in origin? A tempting conclusion, I’ll trust you’ll agree, but one largely based on anecdote.

And there the mystery remained for many years. Until…Leagues of Votann.

That Codex confirms not only basic trade with the Tau, but the Kin posing as the Demiurge, once considered a separate race entirely. And of course, it was the Kin that first traded Ion technology with the Tau in the first place. This was a trading relationship closer than “you have X, we have Y, Swapsies?” as at least some Demiurg appear to be part of the wider Tau Empire.

In turn that brings up the tantalising prospect of loan words. That perhaps the Tau words above weren’t originally Tau at all, but Kin/Demiurg. It could be that it was trade with the Kin/Demiurg that provided the original battle suit tech to the Tau, which was then later adopted into the ones we see today. If so, it could be the Kin/Demiurg suit names became adopted into the Tau language? Kind of like how we’ll call any vacuum cleaner a hoover, regardless of manufacturer, or how a coke in certain areas is a genericised term for any fizzy pop? Whilst feasible, it’s a bit of a stretch overall.

And yesterday? Yesterday during the reveals show we learned just a tiny bit more. They’ve had a redesign to be exo-suits, rather than Iron-Man style suits. And during the chat, we’re told the incumbents undergo adaptive surgery, including lengthening the spine and removing the legs. “Little” nip/tuck stuff to make the human body fit the suit.

Of course we await further details in the coming book which I hope will provide a bit more clarity and concrete description of what adaptations are made. But for now? I wouldn’t rule out the Kin origin. After all, the body plan of a Kin is very different to that of a Human, so having arms and legs amputated or shortened to squeeze in follows that logic.

Except….the overall aesthetic is very wrong for Kin.



It’s almost insectoid looking, like an organic carapace of interlocking plates. Yet we have clearly Imperial weapons mounted - Bolt Launchers and the unmistakable barrel of Volkite. Which suggests there’s some level of Imperial Tech in there. But whether those are added at source from weapons provided as part of the trade, or are strictly after-market, performed upon Necromunda itself, we don’t and can’t currently know.

Taken together? I think it’s now less likely to be Kin technology, as being STC derived that has a pretty uniform design language and shape. These are awfully fancy looking by comparison.

What do you reckon?

I reckon it's close to what we could imagine Dark Age humanity to use close to it's zenith but adapted and jury rigged with the sort of tech common in the Imperium.

Could be DAOT tech mixed with Tau/Kin Tech, though Kin Tech is closer to 'peak' DAOT stuff than the imperial repurposed tractors and the like.

From several of the Dark Heresy books, we learn that weapons matching the (old) description of Orrus fists are archaeotech; and that a character who was clearly designed as a 'death cult assassin with Yeld wings' has a Jokaero-modified suit.


The new designs are peak Nucromunda. It wasn't interesting enough without requiring cutting your legs off and then not being able to fit through regular sized doors, apparently...

i would point out that the insectoid look is shared across House Van Saar's equipment, and Van Saar are the house that is in highest demand by the upper hive nobiltiy when they buy equipment. so it could well be that whereever they get their suits, they are using Van Saar Augmeks and Teks to refurbish and modify them into the final product, which might well include modifications to the armor panel shapes to fit the desired aesthetics of the user (which would end up being Van Saar aesthetics, between what is en vogue and who's doing the work.)

I didn't think it was all that ambiguous:


There was a period immediately following the 3rd edition Tau codex release where people were all "Tau words sound like Spyrer names = Spyrer suits are Tau tech" despite the suits not even remotely resembling anything the Tau have technology-wise, and Necromunda being on the other side of the galaxy from Tau space

They're a mishmash of technologies from various places. some of it may be from the Tau via Kin trading, what's more likely is that each suit is bespoke, and "Orrus", "Yeld", "Jakara" and "Malcadon" are just broad categories of designs with similar capabilities rather than exacting blueprints that are followed to the letter.
So the heavily armoured spyrer suits are "Orrus" suits regardless of whether they achieve it through archaeotech, Eldar technology or bartered Tau/Kin tech. One may be entirely human technology whereas another could be barely recognisable melding of various xenotechs. this also accounts for the vast difference in aesthetics between the Orrus suit models (and they would diverge further as they gain boosts

Yeah, I think it's more to show that the Nobles of Necro have all the resources/ clout and really don't care so much about tech heresy. They have the funds, they have the shady dealings, they can get whatever they want. So, it could be Tau or any other race's tech and/or archeotech. Nobles prolly have good ties to the Rogue trader whose fiefdom they're under and the RT can commerce with xenos.. and they're out for profit.. SoooOOoo that's where they get their high-tech shiny killsuits.
I just want to know which family has access to the ancient Pict-film "Predator" and went "This! Make me THIS!!" for Malcadons..

There is also this in the back of Codex: Tau Empire (3rd edition):

So at least one Mechanicus adept thinks it is the case.

I think the explanation of Kin technology makes much more sense than Tau tech though. I like MDGs postulation that the Tau words are Demiurg loanwords.

On the loan words, I may have undersold its feasibility.

Look at Modern English. We have words like Curry, Pyjamas, Loot, Cot, Shampoo, even Candy from the various languages of the Indian Subcontinent. And their meanings are by no means the same. Derived from, yes. But different.

Curry for instance basically means “sauce” in Tamil. Shampoo is derived from a Hindi word described as meaning “to press, knead or soothe”.

And being three languages in a Trenchcoat with a reputation of mugging further languages for loose grammar, that’s just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to English.

Did you know the four cardinal directions take their names from a Norse Myth, named after the Dwarves believed to hold up the sky?

Another thought on the words that are similar - just to throw a monkey wrench in it.


Many codex are written from an "Imperial" perspective. Names of things are translated into Gothic (and then into English so we can read it ) so whilst an Eldar might call a Falcon Grav tank a Falcon Grav tank in their lore and stories; the actual name might not be "Falcon" but that is the closest Imperial word that translates too it/relates to it/ is used by the Imperials.


So it could be argued that the Tau and Spyers sharing similar names is purely a coincidence that two different Magos in two different regions of space translated alien tech and concepts using the same generic naming structure.



Also I think a lot of the debate also relies on the concept of how much of the tech is from one source and how much is amalgamated. The general evidence suggests that there's no one single source for the tech. That is a hybrid of multiple different kinds - from regular Imperial parts and weapons (makes ammo easy to get!) to more exotic Xeno elements. The latter of which isn't just a flex on how much influence you've got go gather that, but also a flex on how you've not been torn apart by the Inquisition for trading with Xenos.

I also think the self-repairing tech is not outside the ken of the Imperium. Space Marine stormbolters have self-repair technology in them. Most of the Spyrer suits look to be based on human technology (again, does not exclude the Kin here). The xenos components may even be to just fill in some of the gaps between STC systems or where some of the STC plan got corrupted or something.

Although the Imperium would probably treat Kin tech as xenos, especially if obtained via their Demiurg alias.

Charax wrote:
I didn't think it was all that ambiguous:


There was a period immediately following the 3rd edition Tau codex release where people were all "Tau words sound like Spyrer names = Spyrer suits are Tau tech" despite the suits not even remotely resembling anything the Tau have technology-wise, and Necromunda being on the other side of the galaxy from Tau space

They're a mishmash of technologies from various places. some of it may be from the Tau via Kin trading, what's more likely is that each suit is bespoke, and "Orrus", "Yeld", "Jakara" and "Malcadon" are just broad categories of designs with similar capabilities rather than exacting blueprints that are followed to the letter.
So the heavily armoured spyrer suits are "Orrus" suits regardless of whether they achieve it through archaeotech, Eldar technology or bartered Tau/Kin tech. One may be entirely human technology whereas another could be barely recognisable melding of various xenotechs. this also accounts for the vast difference in aesthetics between the Orrus suit models (and they would diverge further as they gain boosts

WAYYYYY back in the day, when I did painting for Fanatic studios, I'd painted up a new Spyrer model for them, which was never released, and was, effectively, a human-sized T'au battelsuit. This was the closest they came, I think, to making the link between Spyrers and T'au but, as it was never released, didn't really mean anything.

Don’t have any pics of that by any chance?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Don’t have any pics of that by any chance?

I wish I did, but unfortunately not.

Aww, poo! Wasn’t aware until your post that model even existed, so would’ve loved even a Photato of it.

grahamdbailey wrote:
WAYYYYY back in the day, when I did painting for Fanatic studios, I'd painted up a new Spyrer model for them, which was never released, and was, effectively, a human-sized T'au battelsuit. This was the closest they came, I think, to making the link between Spyrers and T'au but, as it was never released, didn't really mean anything.

Very interesting! don't suppose you'd be willing to do a quick sketch?

Charax wrote:

grahamdbailey wrote:
WAYYYYY back in the day, when I did painting for Fanatic studios, I'd painted up a new Spyrer model for them, which was never released, and was, effectively, a human-sized T'au battelsuit. This was the closest they came, I think, to making the link between Spyrers and T'au but, as it was never released, didn't really mean anything.

Very interesting! don't suppose you'd be willing to do a quick sketch?

I can't draw for crap, and it's 20 years' ago!
In short, it was a human-sized figure the same as the rest of the Spyrers, wearing what looked like a scaled-down battlesuit. His right arm was raised to the side and had a T'au plasma carbine-like weapon firing forward. Bare humen head shouting on top. I'd painted him in Tau sept colours, which worked tonally and made him different enough to the rest of the Spyrers. I'd done him around the same time I'd painted the Matriarch for them.
I'd painted so many figures for the Fanatic team that never saw the light of day. I wish I'd though to take some pics for posterity!

I wish GW would provide some story to explain this tech. It would be a very interesting story to see how people with the power use money, resources and politics to keep non approved non STC based tech away from the attention and wrath of the authorities.

And to see those that failed or perhaps were made an example of because they bent the rules too far.

They wrote in the new fluff that necromunda was too important to exterminatus due to the green steeler cult in hive sucundus (so they just nuked it from orbit to quote aliens)

So it would be good to see how the necromunda elites keep themselves too important to be punished for having some Xenos tech and what they hide.

Well, one thing we can’t accuse Newcromunda of is skimping on background!

Now I don’t expect a “Book Of Wonderful But Completely Illegal Toys” type in-depth. But hopefully we’ll get some real crunchy stuff all the same.

If the Tau have been using Spyrer suits to spy on the Imperium, either the reports hadn't returned to the Empire yet or they were not widely disseminated at the time the lore was written. When the Last Chancers assassinate a Tau commander, the high-ranking Tau they are collaborating with are shocked at the population of the hive world Kage is from. They probably wouldn't be if they knew about Necromunda, a world that almost certainly has a larger population than the entire Tau Empire at the time.

mrFickle wrote:
I wish GW would provide some story to explain this tech.

-Said every 40k fan about anything in 40k.

Some people really don't know when to leave the monkey's paw alone, do they?

 Haighus wrote:
If the Tau have been using Spyrer suits to spy on the Imperium, either the reports hadn't returned to the Empire yet or they were not widely disseminated at the time the lore was written. When the Last Chancers assassinate a Tau commander, the high-ranking Tau they are collaborating with are shocked at the population of the hive world Kage is from. They probably wouldn't be if they knew about Necromunda, a world that almost certainly has a larger population than the entire Tau Empire at the time.

Given Necromunda is literally on the other side of the galaxy from Tau space, such reports would take a long time to reach them, if they existed at all.
That distance is part of why i never gave much credence to that hypothesis. Especially when Necromunda has existing lore about local Xenos stuff in its background (the ones that destroyed the Araneus Continuity once the ironlords were subjugated by the imperium)

Trade needn’t be direct. In human history, it’s often the trader, not the craftsman/supplier that made the handsome profits.

After all, if I buy say, spices from India, in India, where they’re already plentiful, and take them to Europe, I can buy cheaply at source, and exploit rarity at market for the maximum profit margin.

I agree distance isn't a concern for obtaining the suits. Necromundan nobles will import exotic items from all over the galaxy via Rogue Traders etc. But distance is an issue for any supposed spying, as we are not aware of any (somewhat) reliable long-distance interplanetary communications for Tau that could fit in a suit. It is plausible they have begun seeding scout stations into the galaxy, but it is still probable that any hypothetical Spyrer scout reports have not returned to the Tau yet.

I agree the biggest issue with a Tau link to Spyrer suits is that they have almost nothing in common with Tau gear beyond being an armoured exoskeleton, and a lot in common with advanced human tech (like Thallaxii, which are directly comparable to Crisis suits). So any alien tech appears to be at most subtle components rather than wholesale manufacture, unless it is Demiurg tech which is actually just advanced human gear. Plus the weaponry loadouts and equipment are much more akin to Eldar than Tau.

In addition, the Tau seem to generally avoid sharing their high-end tech with allies, let alone enemies. I don't get the impression they are trading battlesuits with their own auxiliaries, so it seems odd they would trade their own cutting-edge military gear with an enemy nation.

I think it is plausible that Spyrer suits predated Tau involvement, but Tau battlesuit components have been incorporated to improve the interface/operation in some way. That seems the most likely extent of Tau tech.

Related to this, have the Tau been shown to use cybernetics at all? The requirement to remove the lower limbs is reminiscent of Kin and Thallaxii, but not of Tau gear.

The loadouts have always made me think 'Eldar' rather than Tau, and if there was any involvement of xenos influence for Spyers when they were first released the Tau didn't exist then so Eldar would be the logical step.

It could be just convergent evolution for designing a fighting rig for a non-augmented human who are concerned more with protecting their own life rather than human wave tactics, for nobles.

Of course, maybe a large majority of human tech from the dark age of technology was crosstraded from Eldar at the time (which would be trader's tools/protection rather than war weapons), since Imperial las, plas and melta weapons resemble Eldar equivalents. Of course we all know the real reason why they resemble each other from a meta perspective, but if the shoe fits...

At the time, GW were sowing the seeds of what was to come in terms of new races.

Dark Eldar get the odd, very rare mention as Chaos Eldar.

Necrons were heavily alluded to throughout GorkmaMorks.

And so I don’t think it’s entirely out of the question the Spyrer Suits were the first intimation of what would become the Tau - even if exactly who the point of origin of the suits hadn’t been decided at that point.

Its plausible, but when you have suit themes of:
-winged hunter with ranged laser weaponry
-agile spider with paired powerblades and web shooters
-graceful fighter with power weapon and mirror theme
-burly fighter with fists and a short-ranged surprise shooting attack
It seems like they are knock-offs of Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Howling Banshees, and Striking Scorpions (the last one is the biggest stretch).

I don't think the Eldar would trade tech for this, but they seem to have inspired the loadouts.