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I didn't see anyone else throw one up so I took the liberty to make one.

Grab your Index Rules here.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/BrBEfwS94zTuHrZq.pdf

Let's discuss!

I'm liking how GSC fared with the Index, so far.

And, personally pleased that only the Patriarch has Epic Hero.

Points are out.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/oF1iWIkNsvlUHByM.pdf

Locus is must have. Fight First (to himself + unit) is very powerful buff and you can combo it with Primus which then grants re-rolls to hit.

Sad news is that you can only have Locus as extra character in Battleline unit so only Neophytes (don't) or Acolytes that still hit hard. So for Metamorps you can only take lonely Locus.

Or does it matter as you can take 3 for 120 points?

And to top it all, jam them in Goliath truck and, by using its handy Fire Support, grant the unit Re-Rolls to Wound.

The Atalan Jackals Demolition Run is nice for a lot of mortal wounds. Together with a Jackal Alphus with Master Outrider they get to do it twice a turn. And then add Prowling agitant to the Jackal Alphus to do it once in the enemys turn as well!

160+60+15 = 235points for an average of 11.5 MW. With a range of 9"+12"+6" = 27" threat range turn one. Plus another average of 5.5 MW if an enemy unit moves within 9" of them in the following turn. (not guaranteed, but likely)

I kind of expect this to be erratad eventually though.

Primus is 70! And the locus is 40. Adding them both to a unit of acolytes (150) in a truck (110) is 370. With the truck you can reroll damage to wound and reroll hits with primus.

Heavy mining tool deals some damage but it can be saved (ap2). Also this can be wrecked with interrupt stratagem and flamer overwatch. 370 might be to many eggs in one basket to spam it.

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone is having success with Cult Ambush? I had initially thought it would be a pretty cool rule, but reading the timing of it, I am now feeling like it is unlikely it will EVER trigger usefully. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the most likely scenario seems to be this; enemy destroys one of our units in their shooting or melee phase. Cult Ambush marker placed, and does nothing through our whole turn. Then in the opponent's turn they have the opportunity to remove the marker with any model or unit, just by moving that way (including reserves if they can drop close enough). If by some chance they don't remove it, they can then shoot or charge it (again before we can do anything). What are the chances it is still there?
Plus with that timing, if they destroy a unit in Turn 1, it doesn't become useable until the back half of T2 or T3 if we went first. If it gets destroyed again, we might see if again in T5.
When will this become useful? Only if we can pretty much fully engage the whole enemy force, or make the move to remove the token so unwise that they will avoid it.
Has anyone got any more insight than that?

Since no one else is posting, I will continue the conversation myself.
On reflection, i think as long as you have an Iconward, you can place a Cult Ambush blip fairly aggressively (and hopefully out of LOS) to either draw a specific unit away from a key point, or if they don't take the bait, move in close and shoot/charge them. That said, this will probably need to be ~15" from the point you want to clear so that they have to commit to a decent move. If you have a couple of units in Cult Ambush, the second one will have to be either less aggressive, or baiting the same unit... The way the Iconward Summon the Cult ability reads, it seems to be once per battle, no matter how many you have!

Also, what combinations of character, enhancement and unit are people thinking?
I am wondering about Primus + large Neophyte unit for more reliable shooting, Locus (FoA) with Acolytes for Fights First and extra Heroic, Biophagus with Metamorphs who benefit most from the Anti-Infantry 2+, and obviously Patriarch with 'stealers (no other choice) because they exchange useful rules - the Patriarch becomes Fa(s)t and Deadly, and the stealers get devastating wounds, even if it is just one Wound at a time.

Not sure who benefits most from Inscrutable Cunning, but totally agree on the post above about giving the Jackal Alphus Prowling Agitant to create another opportunity for free Mortal wounds.

Since you did not get any responce I will chime in. Loosing acolytes in melee is probably not so bad if it is your turn. They will just respawn the next turn. There is probably a list where that is good.

It is when your opponent kills units in his turn you have a long delay.

Mellon wrote:
The Atalan Jackals Demolition Run is nice for a lot of mortal wounds. Together with a Jackal Alphus with Master Outrider they get to do it twice a turn. And then add Prowling agitant to the Jackal Alphus to do it once in the enemys turn as well!

160+60+15 = 235points for an average of 11.5 MW. With a range of 9"+12"+6" = 27" threat range turn one. Plus another average of 5.5 MW if an enemy unit moves within 9" of them in the following turn. (not guaranteed, but likely)

I kind of expect this to be erratad eventually though.

Why not go MSU instead of full 10?

3x5 outriders with alphus in each for 435pts

Edit: Spotted the reason now, a dice "per model" in the jackal unit

About Cult Ambush. In my humble opinion, it is not quite as aggressive a tool as one might imagine, it is better for reinforcements behind our own front lines. But it is at its very best when you use it to play mind games with your opponent, and force them to make uncomfortable choices.

Most obvious solution is to place a marker where no enemy unit can go, deep strike or not. So close to your other units is the default solution. And the Clamavus can help with screening out deep strikers. Remember that if a unit dies in the opponents turn, you get a movement phase to protect your markers before they get to move or deep strike. But beware of consolidation moves, sneaky Eldar that moves after shooting, Grey Knights teleporting etc...

The much more fun option is to place the Ambush Markers in a place where your opponents deep strikers or fast moving units doesn't want to end up. Like in the back corner of their deployment zone.

Then your opponent can use for example 225 points of Grey Knight Terminators to drop in there and stop 75 points of Acolytes from being deployed. But that means those Terminators will be pretty useless as they slog across the board for several turns, instead of contesting a center objective.

Or your opponent can move one of their fast units there, but that means it will take two extra turns until that unit threatens your deployment zone.

Or maybe they can move an artillery unit away from camping an objective into a worse firing position, and giving up any bonuses for remaining stationary.

Or maybe they move a screening unit, and thus leave an opening where you can use Tunnel Crawlers to deep strike in a unit of Acolytes with 4 demo charges and blow up their artillery.

And if your opponent doesn't dedicate resources to destroying that weirdly placed marker you can deploy any recycled unit there. Like 10 Aberrants or 20 Neophytes or something else that can take and hold objectives nearby. And your opponent knows this, so they know they will be making a lousy trade off no matter what they do.

With several markers well spaced out you can drop in many units and converge them, or assist one of them with our fast moving units, BB-artillery, or something you have used Return to the Shadows on. It's flexible!

The Iconward can save one marker per game. The Nexos is awesome. (Bring two, one in each 20 unit of Neophytes for a free One with the Darkness) and it can also move one cult Ambush Marker 6" at the beginning of each players command phase. That can really mess with your opponents plans.

Bring several Acolytes with demo charges. They do a lot of damage once, then they get killed and give you a guaranteed Ambush Marker to mess around with :-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Inscrutable Cunning goes very well on a unit of Aberrants with an Abominant. A lot of points, but they will be a serious early problem and can soak a lot of damage. Plan to use One With The Darkness on them at least the first turn.

To really front load the table, maybe support with infiltrating purestrains to fight typical scout and infiltration units, and a Reductus for more annoyance.

I was reading a tactics post from frontlinegaming where the author seemed to think that Return to the Shadows allowed units to return to the battle via Deep Strike - but the way I read Strategic Reserves, they would have to re-enter the field via the table edges, since Strategic Reserves are defined as different from Reserves arriving another way, with Deep Strike specifically mentioned.as one of those other ways. I know the stratagem specifies the infantry unit must have the Deep Strike rule (which is a bit moot, given that all eligible targets/ GSC infantry have deep strike), but it doesn't say you get to use it to return... Thoughts?

You will have to read the GSC rule to see if the designer's commentary below applies.

Deep Strike (and Strategic Reserves): If a unit with the Deep Strike ability arrives from Strategic Reserves, the controlling player can choose for that unit to be set up either using the rules for Strategic Reserves or using the Deep Strike ability. This also applies if a unit with the Deep Strike ability is placed into Strategic reserves during the battle.

EightFoldPath wrote:
You will have to read the GSC rule to see if the designer's commentary below applies.

Deep Strike (and Strategic Reserves): If a unit with the Deep Strike ability arrives from Strategic Reserves, the controlling player can choose for that unit to be set up either using the rules for Strategic Reserves or using the Deep Strike ability. This also applies if a unit with the Deep Strike ability is placed into Strategic reserves during the battle.

This is indeed the solution :-)
Return to the Shadows places a unit with Deep Strike in Strategic Reserves. So they can be set up with Deep Strike. The stratagem says nothing to deny it.

Thanks for that - I did look in the commentary, but under Reserves and Strategic Reserves - I didn't see the section on Deep Strike!

In other news, giving the Kelermorph Focus of Adoration effectively allows the protection of Leader without the downside of Precision - just let him hang out within 3" of a battleline unit, shrugging off the wounds, and returning fire whenever the battleline unit is shot. He can even Deep Strike alongside their use of Tunnel Crawlers...

The Kelermorph can't lead a unit. So Focus of Adoration is useless on him. Also, he doesn't want to be in melee so Heroic Intervention is kind of bad. Are you maybe mixing up Heroic Intervention and Unquestioning Loyalty?

In general, the Kelermorph isn't that great. If he is close enough to shoot a unit, that unit is close enough to shoot at him, despite Lone Operative. So why would that enemy unit then shoot at another GSC unit next to him?

The responsive shooting can be useful if he has a soft target nearby, and an enemy unit far away shoots at a GSC unit next to him. But that is kind of hard to set up. And his average damage against relevant targets is unimpressive. Average 7 hits -> 1 MW and 4 wounds against typical infantry characters -> an effective 2 or maybe 3 damage, which is not enough to kill even a Farseer.

His potential max damage is high, and he pays an unfortunate premium price for that unreliable potential. I would rather spend those points on more reliable options.

Yup that's what I did! I guess Unquestioning Loyalty for oCP would be a bit strong! Oh well, another great plan foiled by the actual rules...

hangnailnz wrote:
Yup that's what I did! I guess Unquestioning Loyalty for oCP would be a bit strong! Oh well, another great plan foiled by the actual rules...

I hate it when that happens!

Here's another question for those better at reading rules than me - I can find the round one exception for models arriving from Strategic Reserve, but I can't find the equivalent exception for models in other types of reserve (ie Deep Strike). Can anyone help me locate that, or does this mean we can deep strike in round one, as long as it is not Strategic Reserve?

EDIT: found it myself, on the piece of paper folded into the Mission Cards box, which looks like a rules summary, but in fact introduces rules found nowhere else... Great job, GW design team.

hangnailnz wrote:
Here's another question for those better at reading rules than me - I can find the round one exception for models arriving from Strategic Reserve, but I can't find the equivalent exception for models in other types of reserve (ie Deep Strike). Can anyone help me locate that, or does this mean we can deep strike in round one, as long as it is not Strategic Reserve?

EDIT: found it myself, on the piece of paper folded into the Mission Cards box, which looks like a rules summary, but in fact introduces rules found nowhere else... Great job, GW design team.

It's the mission pack rule.

No ds turn 1 isn't core rule. Same as it wasn't in 9e. It always has been specific for mission pack. Some allow, some don't.

Core rules are at basic most permissive. Then depending on mission pack additional restrictions apply.

Neither rule nor LOCATION of rule has actually changed from 9th.

I haven't been through the updated datasheets in detail, but Cult Ambush now requires all models in the returned unit to be set up within 3" of the Cult Ambush Marker (could be a tight squeeze with big units...), and the Atalan Jackals Demolition Run is now limited to once per turn. Has anyone else noticed other changes?

You can find them in the erataed updates 1.2

The third update is that Cult Ambush is more explicit that it is an entirely new unit that is created. This strongly implies that one-shot weapons are to be considered not used for them.

It is good for demo charge Acolytes for sure, but when coming from Cult Ambush they still need to survive one shooting phase and one fight phase before they can attack.

You could drop them just behind a friendly unit that is about to be charged by a vehicle or monster, and then fire overwatch as it finishes it's charge move.

No one has posted for 6 months, so not sure anyone is interested... is the points drop on Purestrains going to tempt anyone to field them (or more of them) in a GSC list? Or is the lack of anything ranged still too limiting to see play?

i like GSC genestealers more than i do tyranid ones, because advance and charge plus infiltrators is some great range. the patriatch is better too, and can turn the unit into something pretty threatening... but this was the most inconsequential unit they could have buffed, and it's a pretty small buff, too. i don't think this meaningfully changes anything for the army

My cult has to work its way through the life cycle, so my army starts 'Stealer heavy.

I estimate it'll probably take 5 games to infect enough humans for my first full unit of Brood Brothers, but they can use campaign actions to create the first wave of Acolytes before there's a full unit to field, meaning that Acolytes will join the force shortly after the Brood Brothers.

But even before I decided to play this concept through, it's fair to say I've always believed that Purestrains really are the beating heart of the cult. If a vanguard starts with too few, the Cult can be doomed before it even begins.

Purestrains of the First Brood have to wait five generations before another of their kind will be born, and without them, the Cult loses its objects of veneration and inspiration. They lose sight of the divine form of the Four Armed Emperor