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Does "characteristic" mean something specific in 40k? If yes, what is the definition?

It certainly seems that way, but is not clearly defined.


My research so far:

In the Core Rules, characteristic is only ever used in association with the numerical values of models, weapons and attacks. And seems to be different from for example the name and abilities of weapons, or any other abilities for that. (p37-38 for example)

In the Rules Commentary, in the section Or Better: Invulnerable save and Feel No Pain is listed as different things from "a characteristic preceding a plus sign."

(Minor side track: The word "preceding", instead of "including" or "ending with", implies the plus sign is not part of the characteristic. This is reasonable, even necessary, if it is a numerical value. But other parts of the Rules Commentary implies the + is one part of the characteristic, and the number is another part of it. For example "When improving a WS, BS, Sv or Ld characteristic, subtract the appropriate amount from the number before the plus sign,...")

And in the Rules Commentary section for Modifiers: "Characteristic" is used as an example of one type of a "numerical value". Thus implying it is a subset, or at least a partial overlap, of that category. This in particular seems to matter for point 2, which explicitly covers characteristics, and thus (implied) not other numerical values.


Two related questions:
- Is the Command Point cost of a Stratagem a "characteristic"?
- Is point 2 in the Rules Commentary section about Modifiers intended to include all numerical values in the game?

If either or both of those two are true, that would clarify the interaction of rules that lets a player use a stratagem for 0CP, and rules that increases the cost of a stratagem. If both are false, that interaction is still undefined. In my humble opinion obviously :-)

I have submitted this to GW's faq-mail, so hopefully it will be included in the next faq. But I am curious about what you think.

characteristics are unit and weapon stats, i.e. ws, bs, attacks, toughness, strength, leadership, save, etc.

Mellon wrote:
Does "characteristic" mean something specific in 40k? If yes, what is the definition?

It certainly seems that way, but is not clearly defined.


My research so far:

In the Core Rules, characteristic is only ever used in association with the numerical values of models, weapons and attacks. And seems to be different from for example the name and abilities of weapons, or any other abilities for that. (p37-38 for example)

In the Rules Commentary, in the section Or Better: Invulnerable save and Feel No Pain is listed as different things from "a characteristic preceding a plus sign."

(Minor side track: The word "preceding", instead of "including" or "ending with", implies the plus sign is not part of the characteristic. This is reasonable, even necessary, if it is a numerical value. But other parts of the Rules Commentary implies the + is one part of the characteristic, and the number is another part of it. For example "When improving a WS, BS, Sv or Ld characteristic, subtract the appropriate amount from the number before the plus sign,...")

And in the Rules Commentary section for Modifiers: "Characteristic" is used as an example of one type of a "numerical value". Thus implying it is a subset, or at least a partial overlap, of that category. This in particular seems to matter for point 2, which explicitly covers characteristics, and thus (implied) not other numerical values.


Two related questions:
- Is the Command Point cost of a Stratagem a "characteristic"?
- Is point 2 in the Rules Commentary section about Modifiers intended to include all numerical values in the game?

If either or both of those two are true, that would clarify the interaction of rules that lets a player use a stratagem for 0CP, and rules that increases the cost of a stratagem. If both are false, that interaction is still undefined. In my humble opinion obviously :-)

I have submitted this to GW's faq-mail, so hopefully it will be included in the next faq. But I am curious about what you think.

IMHO 'characteristics' is everything that you find on unit profiles and assorted cards; it needs to be separated from 'values' because some characteristics are expressed as random values (like 2D6) that need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, or reference other characteristics that are modifyable in the course of the game (e.g. degrading profiles for some creatures and vehicles, weapons that have a S value that derives from the S value of the wielder and so on (this one is deprecated in 10th) ) and so on. Thus, the characteristic tells you either a value or a method to generate that value, and the value itself is what is used for other rule sequences. In some cases the characteristic doesn't need to express a numeric value at all, it can also be a rules term like 'Automatic' or 'N/A', or in the past various templates etc.

For your related questions:

- Is the Command Point cost of a Stratagem a "characteristic"?
I'd say yes, and in some edge cases you use a value other than this characteristic (namely when an abilitiy sets that value to zero, or modifies it) - these abilities only influence the value in one case, the characteristic remains untouched.

- Is point 2 in the Rules Commentary section about Modifiers intended to include all numerical values in the game?
Possibly, but we don't have a way to know currently. FAQs for damage-reducing abilities points to 'yes' however, but keep in mind that this rule can be overridden by other rules telling you so specifically: if a rule tells you to modify a value by more than 1, for example, that still takes precedence.

Characteristics are defined on Page 38 of the Core Rules. Half are under Profiles and the others are under Weapons. That is is comprehensive as I see no indication that there are any other Characteristics in either the Core Rules or Rules Commentary.

Note that an Invulnerable Save is never referred to as a Characteristic, so it isn't one.

 alextroy wrote:
Characteristics are defined on Page 38 of the Core Rules. Half are under Profiles and the others are under Weapons. That is is comprehensive as I see no indication that there are any other Characteristics in either the Core Rules or Rules Commentary.

Note that an Invulnerable Save is never referred to as a Characteristic, so it isn't one.

This is a good summary of what I had already researched and written in my post. Would you like to read it (again?) and think about if you have any additional information or analysis to add? :-)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:


IMHO 'characteristics' is everything that you find on unit profiles and assorted cards; it needs to be separated from 'values' because some characteristics are expressed as random values (like 2D6) that need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, or reference other characteristics that are modifyable in the course of the game (e.g. degrading profiles for some creatures and vehicles, weapons that have a S value that derives from the S value of the wielder and so on (this one is deprecated in 10th) ) and so on. Thus, the characteristic tells you either a value or a method to generate that value, and the value itself is what is used for other rule sequences. In some cases the characteristic doesn't need to express a numeric value at all, it can also be a rules term like 'Automatic' or 'N/A', or in the past various templates etc.

For your related questions:

- Is the Command Point cost of a Stratagem a "characteristic"?
I'd say yes, and in some edge cases you use a value other than this characteristic (namely when an abilitiy sets that value to zero, or modifies it) - these abilities only influence the value in one case, the characteristic remains untouched.

- Is point 2 in the Rules Commentary section about Modifiers intended to include all numerical values in the game?
Possibly, but we don't have a way to know currently. FAQs for damage-reducing abilities points to 'yes' however, but keep in mind that this rule can be overridden by other rules telling you so specifically: if a rule tells you to modify a value by more than 1, for example, that still takes precedence.

This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the reasoning.

What about other numerical values, such as the range of the Scouts ability? Or [Sustained Hits 1] Are those characteristics? The range of an Aura? The nr of models brought back by the Cult Icon?

Mellon wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Characteristics are defined on Page 38 of the Core Rules. Half are under Profiles and the others are under Weapons. That is is comprehensive as I see no indication that there are any other Characteristics in either the Core Rules or Rules Commentary.

Note that an Invulnerable Save is never referred to as a Characteristic, so it isn't one.

This is a good summary of what I had already researched and written in my post. Would you like to read it (again?) and think about if you have any additional information or analysis to add? :-)

I think agreeing with you and noting that nothing else is referred to as a Characteristic is adding something of value. YMMV

Tsagualsa wrote:
IMHO 'characteristics' is everything that you find on unit profiles and assorted cards; it needs to be separated from 'values' because some characteristics are expressed as random values (like 2D6) that need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, or reference other characteristics that are modifyable in the course of the game (e.g. degrading profiles for some creatures and vehicles, weapons that have a S value that derives from the S value of the wielder and so on (this one is deprecated in 10th) ) and so on. Thus, the characteristic tells you either a value or a method to generate that value, and the value itself is what is used for other rule sequences. In some cases the characteristic doesn't need to express a numeric value at all, it can also be a rules term like 'Automatic' or 'N/A', or in the past various templates etc.

For your related questions:

- Is the Command Point cost of a Stratagem a "characteristic"?
I'd say yes, and in some edge cases you use a value other than this characteristic (namely when an abilitiy sets that value to zero, or modifies it) - these abilities only influence the value in one case, the characteristic remains untouched.

- Is point 2 in the Rules Commentary section about Modifiers intended to include all numerical values in the game?
Possibly, but we don't have a way to know currently. FAQs for damage-reducing abilities points to 'yes' however, but keep in mind that this rule can be overridden by other rules telling you so specifically: if a rule tells you to modify a value by more than 1, for example, that still takes precedence.

This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the reasoning.

What about other numerical values, such as the range of the Scouts ability? Or [Sustained Hits 1] Are those characteristics? The range of an Aura? The nr of models brought back by the Cult Icon?

None of these things listed above (Cost of a Stratagem, Sustained Hits Value, Range of Aura, etc.) are Characteristics. Only the 13 items listed on Page 38 are Characteristics, for which each model/weapon has a Value.

Note that a rule having a Value, such as Feel No Pain or Invulnerable Save, does not make it nor the value a Characteristic. The Rules Commentary goes through great length to define things in a way to be clear those are not characteristics. Example:

Or Better: When referring to the value of an invulnerable save, the Feel No Pain ability, or a characteristic preceding a plus sign, a better value is one with a lower number before the plus sign. For example, a WS characteristic of 2+ is better than a WS characteristic of 3+. When referring to the value of an AP characteristic, a better value is one with a higher number after the minus sign (note that an AP characteristic of 0 can be considered to be an AP characteristic of -0 for such purposes). When referring to any other characteristic, a better value is one with a higher number. For example, a Toughness characteristic of 5 is better than a Toughness characteristic of 4.

Conmand Point cost is not a characteristic.

IMHO 'characteristics' is everything that you find on unit profiles and assorted cards; it needs to be separated from 'values' because some characteristics are expressed as random values (like 2D6) that need to be determined on a case-by-case basis,

RANDOM CHARACTERISTICS
Some characteristics are a random
value instead of a number.
For example, a model’s Move
characteristic might be 2D6", or
a weapon’s Attacks characteristic
might be D6. When a unit with
a random Move characteristic is
selected to move, determine the
entire unit’s move distance by
rolling the indicated number of
dice. For all other characteristics,
roll to determine the value on
an individual, per-model or
per-weapon basis each time that
characteristic is required.