Can you stack -1T debuffs?

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**Matt85**

At the end of the movement phase a GUO can give one target unit -1T until its next movement phase. My question is, does this stack? Can two GUO's give a unit -2T?

Thanks!
-matt

**Warboss Imbad Ironskull**

Matt85 wrote:
At the end of the movement phase a GUO can give one target unit -1T until its next movement phase. My question is, does this stack? Can two GUO's give a unit -2T?

Thanks!
-matt

Taken from page 17 of the 10th edition Commentary PDF, I've only copied sections relevant to modifying Toughness

MODIFIERS
Modifiers are rules that change a numerical value from one value to another. This can include the result of a dice roll, the characteristics of a model, and more. This section details how to apply modifiers in your games. In all cases:
1. All modifiers are cumulative.
2. If a rule instructs you to change or replace one characteristic with a specified value, change the relevant characteristic to the new value before applying any modifiers that apply from other rules (if any) to the new value.
3. You must then apply division modifiers before applying multiplication modifiers, before applying addition and the subtraction modifiers.
4. Round any fractions up after applying all modifiers.

Modifying Characteristics
■ Strength, Toughness, Attacks and Damage characteristics can never
be modified below 1. The exception to this is where a rule specifies
that you can change the Damage characteristic to 0, where this is
applied before any other modifiers

Modifying Characteristics by Improving, Reducing
or Worsening Them
■ Improving or Worsening Other Characteristics: When instructed
to improve/worsen a characteristic that does not include a ‘+’
or ‘-’ symbol, add/subtract the specified amount to/from that
characteristic (e.g. to improve a Strength characteristic by 1, add 1
to it).

Link to the PDF for direct reference
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/KBvH5h3oY5QREpmG.pdf

**alextroy**

As that ability is not a Aura, each use on a unit stacks to the limits of modifiers on Toughness.

**U02dah4**

Won't work at all events though

Wtc faq

". Abilities with the same name do not stack to the same unit unless explicitly stated so."

**Matt85**

Thanks all, this is important because as it stands Nurgle's strongest weapon is S8 and T10 stuff is rampant! I know technically I could use a demon from another faction but my army is more fun for me when it's "lore correct". I did manage to find a Forge World Plague Hunk recently, so a Soul Grinder will be possible when that shows up (the current Soul Grinder doesn't look right for Nurgle).

U02dah4 wrote:
Won't work at all events though

Wtc faq

". Abilities with the same name do not stack to the same unit unless explicitly stated so."

Interesting that WTC uses different rules than GW. Personally have never played at an event though, only with friends from work.

**tneva82**

U02dah4 wrote:
Won't work at all events though

Wtc faq

". Abilities with the same name do not stack to the same unit unless explicitly stated so."

What?

They should rename the game they play then if they don't play warhammer 40k as they clearly don't if they change rules.

**JNAProductions**

tneva82 wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Won't work at all events though

Wtc faq

". Abilities with the same name do not stack to the same unit unless explicitly stated so."

What?

They should rename the game they play then if they don't play warhammer 40k as they clearly don't if they change rules.

By that logic, you can change "Weapon Skill" to "Melee Skill" on all of GW's datasheets and rules, then rerelease it as your own ruleset.
It's still the same game.

Edit: I also would not be surprised in the slightest if that's actually how the people at GW rule it too, and they just didn't write their rules properly.

**tneva82**

We aren't talking about renaming but changing how rules actually work...

That's not renaming stats but actually changing how the rules work. AURA'S don't stack. Last time I checked GUO rule isn't aura. It also doesn't have wording that stops stacking like rules that actually prevent stacking. There's 0 reason to think GUO rule doesn't stack.

WTC just decided to change the actual rules just for fun of it. No different to say banning grey knights or tyranids just because they don't like them. Or prevent pre measure. Or changing movement to be 2d6 for infantry, 3d6 for vehicle because they feel that's more fun.

They can do so but it's not 40k then.

**DeathReaper**

tneva82 wrote:
We aren't talking about renaming but changing how rules actually work...

That's not renaming stats but actually changing how the rules work. AURA'S don't stack. Last time I checked GUO rule isn't aura. It also doesn't have wording that stops stacking like rules that actually prevent stacking. There's 0 reason to think GUO rule doesn't stack.

WTC just decided to change the actual rules just for fun of it. No different to say banning grey knights or tyranids just because they don't like them. Or prevent pre measure. Or changing movement to be 2d6 for infantry, 3d6 for vehicle because they feel that's more fun.

They can do so but it's not 40k then.

40k with a few house rules, is still 40K.

**U02dah4**

And some house rules do make for smoother events particularly when there are known contentions in the rules. I agree it would be better if it was not needed but with the quality of GW's writing it is.

**JohnnyHell**

tneva82 wrote:
We aren't talking about renaming but changing how rules actually work...

That's not renaming stats but actually changing how the rules work. AURA'S don't stack. Last time I checked GUO rule isn't aura. It also doesn't have wording that stops stacking like rules that actually prevent stacking. There's 0 reason to think GUO rule doesn't stack.

WTC just decided to change the actual rules just for fun of it. No different to say banning grey knights or tyranids just because they don't like them. Or prevent pre measure. Or changing movement to be 2d6 for infantry, 3d6 for vehicle because they feel that's more fun.

They can do so but it's not 40k then.

Pretending this is a slippery slope doesn’t make it one. It’s just a house rule to avoid butthurt and weird interactions. Many TOS movement such things and it’s still 40K.