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Was trying to get caught up on his background and reappearance (took a hiatus from 40k mid 8th edition) ... so sorry if this is either a silly question or something already answered and I didn't find it in my research. Could Cypher actually be one of the Alpha Legion primarch's? He's the shortest one, raised by the emperor and his tactics strongly favored subterfuge and guile. Where is he currently.... didn't he give back the sword? Thanks

Outside of bad memes, no.

The Lord Cypher was a title in the Dark Angels Legion and by the end of the Heresy, this was held by Zahariel El'Zurias. Zahariel was one of Luther's inner circle but traveled to Terra with Corswain and fought to defend the Astronomican from Typhus and the Death Guard.

Whether or not the current Cypher is Zahariel or another of the Fallen who took up the mantle is unknown but he is very much not Omegon.

 Gert wrote:
Outside of bad memes, no.

The Lord Cypher was a title in the Dark Angels Legion and by the end of the Heresy, this was held by Zahariel El'Zurias. Zahariel was one of Luther's inner circle but traveled to Terra with Corswain and fought to defend the Astronomican from Typhus and the Death Guard.

Whether or not the current Cypher is Zahariel or another of the Fallen who took up the mantle is unknown but he is very much not Omegon.

Cypher is not Zahariel as (spoiler for Pandorax)


IIRC someone else is Lord Cypher in the SoT books, so I presume it’s him unless someone else gets the mantle later in tEatD or the Scouring.

But at the end of the second Dark Angels HH book doesn’t Zahariel meet cypher from the future and say “I thought it was you…”

So the Cypher we know in 40K is an acquaintance

Also Cypher commands all of the fallens loyalty as long as he hold the lion sword. So it mus be an HH era DA.

Probably GW have created so many twists and turns there is not satisfactory answer anymore

Epithemius isn't Zahariel El'Zurias.

The Grey Knights were sent to Titan before the Siege of Terra even began and Zahariel didn't arrive on Terra until long after that.

Epithemius is still an ex-Dark Angel but more likely The Nemean who was a Knight Errant.

So correct me if I'm wrong.... Cypher briefly helped with Roboute's return in some way or form..... or was it more of a ...hey I'll hitch a ride and do a few nice things so they don't murder me outright?

Timas09 wrote:
So correct me if I'm wrong.... Cypher briefly helped with Roboute's return in some way or form..... or was it more of a ...hey I'll hitch a ride and do a few nice things so they don't murder me outright?

He helped - and afaik it wasn't a casual commitment, but he had an ulterior motive for doing so. There's a novel about what happens afterwards.

On a related note, do we have any idea how Cypher and his Fallen friends feel about the Lion's return? I finished listening to Son of the Forest recently, and it seems like the current direction is just to have the Fallen rejoin their primarch with minimal fuss and no mention of big schemes?

Which, I'm all for seeing occassional, refreshing moments of level-headedness in 40k, but it seems like this kind of downgrades the Fallen from mysterious schemers to simply being knights laying low until dad comes around to bring them back into the fold. Or was the mystique of the Fallen always more of a Cypher-only thing?

The Fallen aren't a monolith. They're individuals who rarely even meet another of their fellowship let alone engage in long term plans with them.

An important thing to remember is that not all of the Fallen will have been members of Luther's inner circle or even have any real understanding of what exactly was going on.
Some even consider themselves still loyal to the Emperor, if not the Imperium.

The largest gathering of Fallen was on Vigilus where they had gathered in secret before aligning themselves with Abaddon.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
On a related note, do we have any idea how Cypher and his Fallen friends feel about the Lion's return? I finished listening to Son of the Forest recently, and it seems like the current direction is just to have the Fallen rejoin their primarch with minimal fuss and no mention of big schemes?

Which, I'm all for seeing occassional, refreshing moments of level-headedness in 40k, but it seems like this kind of downgrades the Fallen from mysterious schemers to simply being knights laying low until dad comes around to bring them back into the fold. Or was the mystique of the Fallen always more of a Cypher-only thing?

I don’t like this significant change of MO for the dark angels. The all consuming desire to hunt the fallen makes them cool in my opinion. I assume that the Risen will only consist of those who can prove their loyalty and that they were not traitors on caliban. Many fallen turn to chaos or went renegade or worshiped Luther and I assume they still are in hiding and will be hunted.

What is interesting is that all of the fallen, regardless of traitor or loyal, will submit to cypher if he has the lion sword.

I would have thought it was cool if the Risen were the lions secret elite army, secret even from Azreal. Secrets are supposed to be what the DA are all about. I don’t want to see them become green ultramarines

mrFickle wrote:

I don’t like this significant change of MO for the dark angels. The all consuming desire to hunt the fallen makes them cool in my opinion. I assume that the Risen will only consist of those who can prove their loyalty and that they were not traitors on caliban. Many fallen turn to chaos or went renegade or worshiped Luther and I assume they still are in hiding and will be hunted.

What is interesting is that all of the fallen, regardless of traitor or loyal, will submit to cypher if he has the lion sword.

I would have thought it was cool if the Risen were the lions secret elite army, secret even from Azreal. Secrets are supposed to be what the DA are all about. I don’t want to see them become green ultramarines

In a way they are. There was a recent White Dwarf story that shed some light on this. The Dark Angels still hunt and lock away the Fallen. However, the Lion is the first to speak to them. If he deems them "clean" then he whisks them away, no further questions allowed. If he judges them tainted then they are left for the chapter to deal with. Not everyone in the chapter is thrilled by this as there have been several complaints by chaplains regarding this process.

As often, the game of telephone is less compelling than the actual lore.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Outside of bad memes, no.

The Lord Cypher was a title in the Dark Angels Legion and by the end of the Heresy, this was held by Zahariel El'Zurias. Zahariel was one of Luther's inner circle but traveled to Terra with Corswain and fought to defend the Astronomican from Typhus and the Death Guard.

Whether or not the current Cypher is Zahariel or another of the Fallen who took up the mantle is unknown but he is very much not Omegon.

Cypher is not Zahariel as (spoiler for Pandorax)

Spoiler:

Zahariel became a Grey Knight (Epimethus) and then subsequently stuck on Pythos for thousands of years before eventually being abducted by the Black Legion (which also caused distrust between the Grey Knights and Dark Angels as Draigo knew his history and thought the DA had been the ones to abduct him - Azrael was genuinely confused what Draigo was accusing him of)

IIRC someone else is Lord Cypher in the SoT books, so I presume it’s him unless someone else gets the mantle later in tEatD or the Scouring.

I do not think that is correct or at least not yet.