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Hello all,

This is my first post, I’ve been doing a deep dive into 40Ks Titan sizes and wanted to write down my thoughts and findings. Apologies if it’s been done to death.

I think the current “canon” sizes are too small, from a tactical, engineering and above all thematic standpoint.

Part I: Current canon size

I’m mainly going to be discussing the Warhound as I believe this where the trouble started. The Warhound is listed on Lexicanum as being 14m tall. This is consistent with a diagram published by GW stating that a Warlord is 33m.

I believe the thought process for a Warlord being 33m comes from an extrapolation of the Baneblade and Warhound comparative size. The Baneblade is stated to be 13.5m long and carries the same class of weapons as a Warhound, Plasma Blastgun, Vulcan Mega Bolter etc… So the Baneblade model is 240mm long. That means The Baneblade is at roughly a 1:56 scale. The Warhound model is designed so that it’s weapons are roughly the same size. It’s model stands 250mm. So putting that through the scale and you get 14m tall for the Warhound. They have kept a consistent scale for all the Titans so you can go through and multiply the models height by 56 and you will get the current “canon” height.

This was a fairly reasonable way to go about sizing them.

Part II: The problems

The biggest issue is thematic. In my view Titans are meant to be a sort of 40K version of a surface combat ship during WWII. They are meant to be looming and huge, essentially immune to any firepower not specifically designed to damage them whilst being able to casually destroy all other land vehicles from stupendous ranges. Titans are tiny in comparison to current era ship. At 14m tall a Warhound couldn’t even reach half way up the side of one of the medium sized ore ships I deal with at my work. The Statue of Liberty on its pedestal is enormous in comparison to even an Emperor class Titan.

From a pseudo practical standpoint. The difference between having an admittedly advanced internal combustion engine (the Baneblade) to having an internal fusion reactor is huge. Figures I’ve seen put the difference in power outputs of being in the order of 4 million times greater in favour of the fusion reaction. In particular for the various directed energy weapons wouldn’t it only make sense for the Plasma Blastgun of a Warhound to be somewhat larger then a Stormblades which is running on an internal combustion engine?

I know 40K is the very softest kind of sci-fi and I have no issues with that but that only argues in favour of the absurdly large Titans as opposed to the canon micro titans.

I’m not concerned with Tabletop balance. It’s fine for them to be depowered and shrunk to fit on the tabletop but for the lore they should be vast.

They were that tall in the 80s when they were first released. The problem is fans' tendencies to overblow things and meme them beyond their original intent for coolness.

It's ok for things not to be superkewl mega gigant, they can be cool without that.

Sure, many people seem to prefer the idea of larger titans. Including a fair few black library authors who have mentioned larger sizes in their novels than are stated in the source books.
However I don't agree with your idea that the current canon size of titans was arrived at by extrapolating from the size of a baneblade. Simply because the titans (and their approximate sizes) came first.

The original Adeptus Titanicus rulebook from 1988 states:

Titans are divided into a number of broad types, depending on their size and function. Battle Titans and Emperor Titans are among the most numerous, but there are lesser types, such as the dreaded Psi-Titans, and the fast, lightly-armed Scout Titans.
Battle Titans stand between 40 and 80 feet tall. Each Battle Titan is protected by up to six Void Shield Generators, and armed with a a variety of weapons. Thus armed and armoured, these powerful fighting machines are the work horses of the Military Orders of the Collegia Titanica.
Emperor Titans are taller - some 70 to 100 feet tall - and considerably bulkier. They can carry even more Very Heavy Weapons than Battle Titans, making them fearsomely destructive machines. These massive Titans are among the most powerful forces deployable on a planetary surface.

This was the origin of titans in the 40k setting, and it roughly agrees with the current canon size. Slightly smaller even. I don't believe baneblades showed up until a few years later.

9 storey buildings are quite big. Lots of space in there for gubbinz.

I’m honestly a bit heartbroken to see that they were originally even smaller…

100ft for an Emperor Class… that’s tiny.

This feels like seeing The Big Banana as an adult.

Well clearly I’m wrong about them getting shrunk over time. Nevertheless, they should be much bigger…

The bigger you make titans, the less they're able to interact meaningfully with the rest of the setting - they wouldn't be able to take cover behind buildings, fit inside spacecraft, be threatened by any sub-titan enemies etc.

Titanicus portrays titans as much taller than the Forge World models.

In the Warhammer World dioramas they have a model with a single princeps in the head of a Warlord, whereas in the books there are two moderati as well, and it's portrayed as more of a room with a princeps floating in a chamber in the centre rather than a single seat.

There is a Princeps and two Moderati in the head of all the Forge World models, even the scout titans have this.

 Haighus wrote:
There is a Princeps and two Moderati in the head of all the Forge World models, even the scout titans have this.

I took these photos at Warhammer World just a couple of weeks ago:

 Haighus wrote:
There is a Princeps and two Moderati in the head of all the Forge World models, even the scout titans have this.

 dreadblade wrote:
I took these photos at Warhammer World just a couple of weeks ago:

That might just be the angle:

beast_gts wrote:
That might just be the angle:

I think you might be right. You can just see the top of the moderatis' helmets if you zoom in.

It's still a lot smaller than I imagined from reading the book...

Well gw just shrunk them further with li. Titan models were sized perfectly for 33m warlord in 6mm but li now 8mm. So unless models wrong scale warlord suddenly about 25mm

tneva82 wrote:
Well gw just shrunk them further with li. Titan models were sized perfectly for 33m warlord in 6mm but li now 8mm. So unless models wrong scale warlord suddenly about 25mm

Adeptus titanicus was always described as 8mm scaled by FW.

I dunno, the Warhound size sounds about right to me.

Take the Gundam series for example, the original series had the first Gundam (RX-78) to be 18 meters tall -- or 5.5 stories, and the antagonist Mecha, being the Zaku II, was just slightly shorter at 17.5m.

This allowed them to be basically used as general-purpose fighter jet as they are too small for space battleship fires. In the Battle of Loum, as shown in the OVA MS IGLOO, a 3D animated 3-episode special, the Zaku II was shown flying between the battleships of the Federation and destroying their bridges and munition dumps with "small arms" fire and bazookas.

Above Char Aznable's red Zaku II command unit stomping on a EFSF's Magellan-Class Battleship shortly before blasting her bridge with the mecha's tommy gun


Above: Zaku IIs swarming between the Earth Federation Space Fleet's Salamis-Class Crusiers

In MS IGLOO 2, the third and last installment of the MS IGLOO specials, they focused on the period of the First Year War when the Earth Federation haven't developed their mechas yet. We get to see how big the Zaku IIs are compared to EF infantry squads and even tanks.

Above, the lone survivor of a EF special anti-MS team was ambushed by a Zaku II that had hidden itself in a covered up quarry opening in the ground.


Above, a battle ground consisting of tanks and the Federation's mass-produced mecha ("GM", 18.5 meters height) at the Battle of Odyssa

The relative smaller sizes of the mechas in the Gundam franchise (usually 17 - 23m tall) allowed them to be present in cities and jungles

Above: one of the mass-produced RX-79G Gundams in the jungles of Africa as shown in 08 MS Team.

https://img10.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/webm/Gundam-Mobile-Suit-Gundam-mobile-suit-gundam-08th-ms-team-08th-ms-team-2207167.webm
Above: two veterans in RX-97G Gundams in urban combat

These qualities would also be need for the Warhound well since it's supposed to be a "scout" titan, meaning it is comparably lighter-equipped and less protected, but needs to be able to operate with limited support away from the main force in extended amount of time, which require it to be able to take advantage of cover and concealment against greater foes.

Getting one’s head around Titan size will also depend upon what art you were first exposed to.

The original Adeptus Titanicus? It was kind of all over the shop. The box art for instance.



But within the rulebook, you had more ‘realistic’ depictions. On sticks in my head of a Warlord hauling itself up using a handy building to blindside an Opponent, with civilian scattering. There it was much closer to the described scales. I’m afraid I’m struggling to find an online pic of it. But here’s a pic of a Reaver shown in too small scale.



2nd Ed was far worse for it, with even a weedy Reaver absolutely towering over ruins. It’s silly. Very silly indeed.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, please enjoy this bonus Titan based artwork of an Eldar Phantom Titan playing a little chin music, and putting a tu’penny one up a Warhound’s bracket.

That Reaver is just depicted fighting to defend a model village.