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So this is inspired by a post by Catbarf in the "Has 10th drained the soul from 40k" thread.

CB suggested that some Dakkanaughts could benefit from experience in other, more modern wargames.

I'm not sure whether CB sees me in that group or not, but I certainly put myself in that group, because as I've said so often, I'm not a wargamer- they are fun enough when somebody else supplies whatever I need to play... But I'm a roleplayer at heart, and I like 40k because it caters to roleplaying more than any of the other wargames I've tried.

So my question is are there other wargames that cater to Roleplaying?

For clarification, RPG elements I'm looking for include mechanical faction differentiation, unit customization, ample lore to support faction identity, escalation potential, a progression system so that units can grow and change based on the action on the table over the course of a campaign; and certainly multiple systems for running campaigns. I also want a scale that includes vehicles- unlike most Dakkanaughts, I actually like Aircraft and Super-heavies, and think that 40k is better with them than without, but I don't require a game to have those- as long as each faction has a selection of distinct vehicles.

I think there might be potential in Battle Tech- when I played back in the day, the was a Mechwarrior RPG, which in hindsight could have been played alongside the table-top game. My thing with Battletech is that I think all or most factions have access to roughly the same list of Mechs, meaning very little visual faction differentiation. But it's been decades since I've played, and even then, it was a hanful of games.

Star Wars also has potential, but I'm not sure if there are enough factions, and I have no idea about how well it integrates escalation, progression and customization.

Finally, Infinity is also intriguing, but my concerns for it are the same as Star Wars.

Ideally I want robots and aliens to be as important and well developed as humans.

So, any suggestions or clarifications on any of the games that I think might scratch the table-top-RPG hybrid group.

I don't know that there are any games that meet your criteria. When I think of wargame with RPG elements what comes to mind are computer games like Dawn of War Dark Crusade and Soulstorm.

I can say that Infinity will not be to your liking though there is/was an RPG associated with it. On the business side, the rules are free, but the fluff is not. The plotline does advance periodically. There isn't a campaign system. The focus is entirely on matched play. The game itself is very complicated and unforgiving for new players. Mistakes are punished harshly.

Most i play are smaller scale.

-Mordheim is still a fav!
-Last Days by ash barker I highly rate as well for customisation. But it’s zombie apocalypse so not really factions, more group leadership types.
-Frost grave has a fun campaign but all wizards, if your groups willing there fan made stuff that’s amazing.

-Infinity campaigns are great fun, but less role-play. As it's more traditional tabletop. But there is a bit for it about to get in-depth if you want. The setting is perfect for it, and all the factions do get well setting support I think.

-Battletech campaigns can get full RP if you’re willing to put in the work. we are on a 9+month campaign right now that’s been awesome! I would highlight that why everyone can take (everything),there are faction lists and faction identities.
Mechs are much easier to get in different parts of the factions. It depends a lot on how much the group wants to go down into the depth it can have.
Worth it if players are willing!

-Full thrust has customisation that when used in a campaign is amazing, but the book keeping can get very intense.

-Warmachine has a Rpg that can be converted into the tabletop for campaign games with the game master needing low effort. If you did want to go that way.

-We also playing a Gundam campaign at the moment, there are a few rulesets usable. But all I seen can give a great experience for a more roleplay minded group. But is a bit of a wildcard. But customisable to an extreme extent.

Sorry it’s a quick list, I in a bit of a rush so I may come back and clean it up if I can.

Frostgrave and Stargrave are basically half way between a skirmish wargame and an RPG.
Also mini agnostic, so you can play with what you have.

Space Station Zero is designed to be solo/co-cop, but is a developing story that feels like an RPG.

The world building/lore for those is rather light, it's about telling your own story.

There are tons, you just have to look a bit further than the shelf of your FLGS sometimes.

Here are a few random examples:

- 5 Parsecs from Home/5 Leagues from the Border Lands
- Song of series
- Lunar
- Stargrave/Frostgrave/Rangers of
- Under the Martian Yoke
- Rogue Planet
- Rogue Stars
- The Rampant series of games from Dan Mersey
- Squad Leader
- The Doomed
- Turnip28

There are literally so many games that do RPG-Lite! I can not even list them all. However, this is more the realm of the Indie wargame and they are typically more model-vs-Model.

However, you can also find RPG-Lite elements in mass battle historical games as well.

Pretty much any skirmish miniatures game you can think of, at least the ones with campaign systems, are ripe for tons and tons of RPG-lite elements, as every model in your force can have both a backstory and an ongoing journey.

Aside from the others above:

-Dracula's America (wild west supernatural)
-This is Not A Test (literally an IP-free Fallout game system)

There is also a great campaign system for Battletech: Alpha Strike, by Jared Blando. Give your mechwarriors some backstories and then watch their trials and tribulations as they try to keep their mechs running. https://jaredblando.com/battletech

Good replies. You can also browse on LeadAdventures various forums, since such games often appear there. I'm in a similar situation, but for fantasy solo. Will return to playing such games after some Gloomhaven: Crimson Scales...

Two Hour Wargames various genres titles.

Shadows of Brimstone, Mordheim, Necromunda, The Walking Dead...

I would probably look into some of the cool board games- especially cooperative board games like Shadows of Brimstone or Oathsworn Into the Deepwood that have a lot of those RPG type elements. There are quite a lot of them now, and I can fill you in on a much longer list should you care for it.

In tabletop wargaming, my first thought was Malifaux, but I'm not sure if whether it does all of the things you're hoping for. Infinity is definitely something you ought to look into.

You should look into the Skyrim and Fallout games from Modiphius.

And lastly, I get the impression that Conquest does many of the RPG type things that 40k does.

+2 for Stargrave, and Necromunda. Else, houserule it.

Battletech is certainly at the top of the list for what you describe. The force differentiation isn't as strong, but once you did into the lore you find that they're are allot of units that are unique to one faction and some that are greatly preferred by another. The cultures of the various factions are quite different.

The various rule sets can all be combined fairly seamlessly and Battletech has rules for...

RPG
Small scope ground/mech combat
Infantry Platoon combat
Company level ground combat
Battalion level ground combat
Space Combat
Overview rules for running system wide campaigns.

All this with one of the most extensive libraries of sourcebooks.


I can't think of many universes so similarly well developed and well integrated at multiple levels of play. However, if you're willing to work out the crossovers, there are multiple game universes that have both RPG and various levels of miniature gaming.

Star Wars
Warmachine
Warhammer "Old World" (you might consider Mordheim part of this)
LoTR
Fallout
And many more.

Or you could just dive deeper into 40k via one of the roleplaying systems based on it.

Really it just takes a reasonably interested AND committed DM to be willing to incorporate a miniature combat game into a corresponding RPG.

I am a long time Battletech player, and recently purchased Alpha Strike. So I'll add my support for trying Battletech. I've come to prefer Alpha Strike as it plays quicker and lets you play bigger battles. Original Battletech is crunchy, and lance on lance (4 mechs per side) can easily take 4 hours. This was not an issue in high school and/or college, but can be now. Many OG BT players dislike Alpha Strike because many details that make a given mech unique have been abstracted away, but if you are new to the franchise this probably will not bother you.

As for faction differentiation, that is mainly on the purchaser. Yes, many of the same mechs are found on every side of a conflict, but as others have mentioned, each faction has preferences. BattleTechWiki: BattleMech Portal If you visit the Sarna.net link, you'll see the faction divisions. Each faction section has the mechs they manufacture which would be your guide for building a "historically accurate" force. Unlike any GW game, you, the consumer, choose how you build your forces. So if you want to use only mechs that appeared in the first Robotech series, you can.* Or you can do something like I am doing, building a specific unit and using only the canonical mechs in it. In my case it is the early incarnation of the Black Widow Company of Wolf's Dragoons.

As for getting started, the Beginner's Box will give you a taste of the classic game, and Battletech: Alpha Strike the larger scale game. The miniatures can be used in both games. You can download for free the mech rosters from the boxed sets and Forcepacks at the CGL webstore

Another suggestion is Silent Death. This is tactical space fighter combat. One offs and campaigns are supported. While in the original game, factions were not different materially. However, with the release of more fighter designs and faction packs the factions now have different force compositions. They are even larger ships (see the Warhounds supplement), and which are proper targets for a Mark V torpedo (5d12 damage). A Mark V was often overkill on the smaller fighters, but still only had 1 HP versus point defense, so multiple smaller torps were the way to go, but with larger ships you do need the higher damage.

Silent Death - Available downloads
So the core book is listed at the top, and the rest are optional. If you'd like a mercenary campaign, get the Yoka-Shan Warworld pdf. That gives you that faction's lore and preferred fighters. They are mercenaries, so they can fight anyone. House Colos is essentially House Harkonnen from Dune with a Soviet Russian feel. A number of their fighters are essentially MiGs with sci-fi detailing. House Colos also uses a lot of ammo-based weapons (IIRC), so you can run dry in the middle of combat. The Night Brood are weird fungus aliens: while they are challenging to play against, they break a number of standard rules, so I suggest ignoring them at the start. Kashmere Commonwealth are basically Indian merchant princes, but who maintain strong forces for both defense and "collections." Hostile Takeover is about how the Espans try to default on debts owned to the Kashmere Commonwealth, who take that badly.

These space fighters were originally sculpted for the 2nd ed. Silent Death Starter box, so they are a cheap way to start building a fighter wing. You'll probably want at least two sprues since the training scenarios are usually two of [X] versus two of [Y]. The very smallest fighters are often fielded in groups of four.

*Robotech inspired, but not exact, the *Bleeps* at Harmony Gold have seen to that. Although the most recent Harmony Gold copyright lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice by the court. That's a polite legalistic way of saying the lawsuit was BS.