Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://medusav.us.games-workshop.com/hobby/gaming/tactics/urban/samplearmies1.htm

Why would you ever give anyone this advice???

Because you'd be playing against them?

Whats the problem? Its a cityfight list. He has a nice infiltrating 4+ cover save army. I'd put more ehavy weapons in from habit but its my understanding guard forces are hampered by all the terrain and have problems getting any long range shots.

I like the psyker with force weapon (I can't remember are they like IC's or like vet serg's in CC). It would be ignominious to have the massive demon prince (or chaplain) get taken down by a lowly human.

The problems?

Shotguns.

Plasma Pistols on the officers.

The idea of using voxes.

A HSO command squad that has 4 plasma guns.

Sentinels with Lascannons and Heavy Flamers.

Melta bombs on the HSO.

A master-crafted force weapon.

I could go on. But no, the list is fine.

You're right I didn't see the plasmas/meltas on the HSO unit-only the platoons JSO's. If he has anything it should be morale oriented or maybe some flamers for a last stand situation. I still like the psyker with a force weapon (concept of killing a demon in HTH is cute) but too expensive to be worthwhile.

Arg he's got vets with only one special/heavy weapon. Whats the CENSORED about dropping cameoline for voxes? In a cityfight he's be giving up a 3+ cover save (assuming ruins) for a slight morale boost potential. I'd take the cover save and better use of morale/doctrines for leadership umbrellas. Personally I'd have switched out at least one JSO unit to flamers instead of plasmas-felt them to be a nice counterassault unit to surviving marines getting through the gunfire.

I concede the argument immediately-should have looked at this more closely.  Consider me suitably chastened :S

Don't worry. We still love you.

I think I would go with..

"Because you'd be playing against them?"

Ahh GW....

You've all obviously missed the point, and that is that you're supposed to 'have fun' and run 'fluffy' lists, and pay close attention to the 'spirit of the game' and the 'most important rule.'

But no.  You Cheddar McCheesy players will go out, and find effective units, and make lists that frankly would do well on the field.  For shame!  GW is obviously modeling for us the proper way to play 40k, and all they get is derision.  Sad...

And if you can't tell the obvious sarcarsm in this post, my condolences

jfrazell: The psyker with Honorifica and force weapon is one of my favorite little surprise units to use in the game.

He works best in a platoon command squad since he can utilize COD gaining him the extra initiative. He is an advisor not an IC so the other guardsmen in the squad are great ablative wounds for him. Finally, (as you pointed out) his ability to insta-kill your opponents high point IC's or monstrous creatures is rad to the max. It's even better when you show your opponent how much he costs in comparison to how much he killed.

12 points (Throw away psyker in HQ)
12 points Psyker
25 honorifica
25 force weapon
74 points total

Tangent aside, Lascannons, HK missiles and plasma guns have proven pretty worthless in the few small demo city games I've played. Our club actually has enough terrain to fill a 4' x 6' table so our tables look nothing like the sparse examples they show in the book. average open field shot is about 18" - 20." Plasma guns work worse than ever at killing anything besides the firer since at least the target gets a cover save! And ogryn actually outshine rough riders for the first time! Keep in mind that these are my experiences. Yours may vary depending on terrain and opponent.

I do like the fact that he used a doctrine point to buy back hardened vets though. I always seem to run out of doctrine points really fast when I buy back units like Command Squads and Demolishers.  Hehe, and that's just the glaring one.  You guys have already mentioned most of the good ones, but Light Infantry on the vets?  Light Infantry is my primary Doctrine but I would never use it on vets.  At least the other squads gain infiltrate.  I don't know if 10 points is worth move through cover alone.  Well, I guess you could put a sniper rifle in the vet squad!  Yeah!  then use the Master Sniper Strategem and really make them rad to the max!

Hey, let's do that!  Let's try to make the worst possible combination of strategem/doctrines for the guard!  I'm going with:

Priests, Techpriests, Mechanized, Jungle fighters, Warrior weapons

Master Snipers, Plunging Fire, Rappelling Lines

I said something dumb here, pay no attention to this....

Posted By Blank on 07/19/2006 12:22 PM

You've all obviously missed the point, and that is that you're supposed to 'have fun' and run 'fluffy' lists, and pay close attention to the 'spirit of the game' and the 'most important rule.'

PLEASE DO NOT START THIS AGAIN!!! WE HAVE ENOUGH THREADS ON FLUFF PLAYERS COMPLAINING THAT THOSE OF US WHO CAN DO SIMPLE MATH ARE POWERGAMING CHEESE PLAYERS!!!

THERE ARE 2 WAYS TO PLAY THE GAME FOR FUN/FLUFF AND TO WIN WITH OPTIMAL WEAPONS/SQUADS.

YOU ARE NOT 'supposed to' DO ANYTHING, YOU PLAY YOUR WAY, I'LL PLAY MINE AND RESERVE THE FLUFF ARMIES FOR A LITTLE KID'S SANDBOX COMPLETE WITH SOUND EFFECTS.

And in conclusion.... GW reads it, and they hope that someone will buy the stuff they show in a codex, because hey, how else are they going to sell that vox bit and sents withheavy flamers?

 

Er um I think you missed the "this is sarcasm" statement at the end.

Er um I think you missed the "this is sarcasm" statement at the end.

And then he accidentally hit his caps lock key and didn't realize it until half-way through his post. Man, his mind must be all over the place at work.

Er um I think you missed the "this is sarcasm" statement at the end.

Yeah, uhmmm, .... the a and cap locks are so close, sigh, I should learn to read and pay attention.... And yes working for a Jap accounting firm is driving me nuts that's why I'm quitting in 4 days woot!

Oh, sorry disregard my post.

foil, you're absolutely right, its horrible, cityfight or no.  Ig just cant fight HtH, all the wasted points on HtH gear are absurd.  IC anything with HtH weapons is just awful silly, who swings in time to use it at I3, almost no one, furthermore S6 power gloves dont even instakill multiwound foes at S4 or better, so why bother?  An embarasing list surely.

Also whats with the sentinels having a triple entry for counts as HQ, I assume its a copy error.  Bad editing.

Just more proof that the GW forums and threads aren't worth anything. An easy target to hit there.

An army in a GW publication/website is horribly unbalanced and features many different types of models. I for one am shocked at this completley new and utterly unexpected development.

Can anyone confirm whether or not Hardened Fighters applies to the advisors? It says that Hardened Fighters applies to the whole unit. Since they are part of the unit do they also benefit from the increased WS? I would think so since it applies to the Officer as well.

A force weapon on a psyker isn't a bad idea. makes for a great counter assault unit vs. termies. If you add a commissar with fist, a officer with PW and a psyker with force weapon, that seemsthat it would be enough to put down a termie squad. I'd rather have my Command HQ be geared for combat rather than shooting anyways. Either way, my guys ride in a chimera so they don't get picked off.

Capt K

Page 55 of codex IG defines "Guard Infantry" as (among other things) inclusive of advisors. The real question is: does it apply to attached independant characters? An independant commissar attached to a platoon command squad is what? I would consider all 6 men an infantry platoon squad for the purposes of Close Order Drill, but others may disagree. Thoughts?

Oh, and I've never used my honorifica/force weapon psyker on termies but I think you're right. They would do pretty well. For me the killer application for him is his ability to waste IC's in CC. That assault squad is pretty cool...until they lose their chaplain! Unfortunately, the unit usually loses the assault because even when he kills a 4 wound creature it only counts as 1 wound compared to the squad usually recieving...well, more than 1 wound!

So if I follow that right then if you upgrade your psyker to have a honorifica...that takes him to WS 4. Then you upgrade your command HQ with hardened fighters and now you have a WS 5, 3 wound model with a initiative of 4? That ain't too shabby. Heck If you had an HSO and a commissar in that mix, you'd have 3 characters with a WS5, two of which you can't single out in CC. Not bad at all.

Capt K

Actually I use a throw away psyker in the Company Command Squad first, then put my honorifca/force weapon psyker in one of my platoon HQ's. I don't use Hardened fighters that much because it really only keeps him from being hit so easily (4 or more instead of 3 or more). Usually he will need a 4 to hit at worst anyways. The real key is that with Close order drill on the Platoon Command Squad he's Initiative 5! Although you're stuck with a JO who is worse than a vet the commissar helps. Just make sure you pass that psychic test! Pow! Of course, at Ld 10 (base 9 + COD =10) that's not too hard!