Latest posts for the thread "Alot of new Marine info (again)"

Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

Gleaned the link from Seer (plastic rat):

http://www.war-hammer.com/php/viewthread.php?tid=2726&fpage=1

A few things that popped out at me;

"Scouts can deploy locater beacons which [b]allow for quick Deep Strike Assaults[/b]". Emphasis mine....units assaulting the turn they DS?

Scouts can lay booby traps...heard this rumour before but now confirmed.

Chronus in a Crusader will be sick. Ignores shaken/stunned and all of those twin linked weapons fire at BS 5. That's an Ork nightmare.

Tigurius[b] three powers a turn and allows reserve rerolls[/b]. This should go over well .

Shrike looks to be a beast...and makes the squad he's with inflitrate.....AND he gives the army fleet. I don't know how useful this is to marines though.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Reecius — GMT

hahaha. space marines, hooooo!!!!!

this just keeps getting better...and more rediculous.

hopefully when it all comes out it plays well and is not just stupid uber.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

Biggest thing I saw was:

"Land raiders and drop pods now have an increased capacity of 12 to accommodate 5 terminators and a character in terminator armor."

It appears that this drop pod is going to be for dreadnoughts and thunderfire cannons as well. I am scratching my head about the dreadnought thing though.

I mean. how the hell is it supposed to get out of that 5 door contraption.

Judging by this quip, it seems unlikely that GW will make a dreadnought plastic drop pod. sad.

there is a TON ofvery new info on that site!

nice find!

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

[quote=Hellfury]Biggest thing I saw was:

"Land raiders and drop pods now have an increased capacity of 12 to accommodate 5 terminators and a character in terminator armor."

It appears that this drop pod is going to be for dreadnoughts and thunderfire cannons as well. I am scratching my head about the dreadnought thing though.

I mean. how the hell is it supposed to get out of that 5 door contraption.

Judging by this quip, it seems unlikely that GW will make a dreadnought plastic drop pod. sad.

there is a TON ofvery new info on that site!

nice find![/quote]

I still can't get over the wording on the locater beacon. If it means what it says, I could see this happening:

Large Scout biker group turboboost first turn, deploy beacon
Second turn Assault Terminators w/ Chapter Master DS in and assault that turn

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius — GMT

Sounds like a specialist rapid assault strike force!

Shocking!

These are just rumors at this point.

And...let's wait to see some points costs before we bust out too many "Spase Marinez!! Hurr!!11!!!" comments.

Please?

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

[quote=AgeOfEgos]I still can't get over the wording on the locater beacon. If it means what it says, I could see this happening:

Large Scout biker group turboboost first turn, deploy beacon
Second turn Assault Terminators w/ Chapter Master DS in and assault that turn[/quote]

I somewhat agree.

I believe that the locator beacon could very well be just a teleport homer though, much like DA bikes have.

Plus the wording about deepstrike assaults I think you are reading a little much into it perhaps. I don't think it means what you think it means.

I think it is more of an assault in the sense of being a threat, not assault in the way of the GW terminology.

Kind of like: "Fulgrim leads the assault with his army" more than "Fulgrim assaults with his army the same turn they enter the battlefield."

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Jezrael — GMT

[quote=AgeOfEgos].

Shrike looks to be a beast...and makes the squad he's with inflitrate.....AND he gives the army fleet. I don't know how useful this is to marines though.

[/quote]

I can imagine two or three assault squads jumping their full movement, running a D6, and then assaulting with in another six inches could be a pretty nice ability. I should have stuck with Ravenguard. If DA green wasn't so much better looking then solid black....

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

Also, it looks like there is a confimation on the price of the drop pod as well.

I don't know what space marines tacticals go for in taiwan, but over here they are $35. This site lists them as J. Drop pods are also price code J.

hence Drop pods $35.

I would say this would be a confirmation of the drop pod price, but the codex is also listed as J on the site as well. We all know the codex is going to be $25.

Hmmm...what to think...what to think....

Alot of new Marine info (again)

mothman_451 — GMT

any one heard anything about the camo cloaks?

"scouts can be equipped with camo cloaks, granting the stealth special rule"

thats pretty nice if its a cheap upgrade

Alot of new Marine info (again)

mothman_451 — GMT

so what about the free specials and heavies in tactical squads that was rumoured could that be the free wargear upgrades they suggest?

hellfire rounds for scout heavy bolters is cool

and the change of the typhoon missile launcher is interesting and makes it a much more plausible choice if it stays cheaper than the assault cannon

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Death By Monkeys — GMT

[quote=Hellfury]Also, it looks like there is a confimation on the price of the drop pod as well.

I don't know what space marines tacticals go for in taiwan, but over here they are $35. This site lists them as J. Drop pods are also price code J.

hence Drop pods $35.[/quote]
BOLS is listing them for $30.

I don't know how effective they'll be, but I really like the new Scout Bike models, particularly the shotguns and the bike-mounted GL. Vanguard squads get Heroic Intervention to assault when they DS? And Kantor's Stormbolter is Assault 4 AP4? Crazy stuff, mang!

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

Yeah...but BOLS also get their info primarily from Warseer, Dakka and B&C. Regardless, I am not a fan of the site. Lauded as the place to find rumours, yet they are the ones who usually get the info last.

I am just commenting on how screwy the price is because it is listed as the same price as both the tac squad and codex, which we all know are two separate prices.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

blood angel — GMT

Tough 6 and feel no pain on that chap is pretty haus.

The UMs are getting a lot of nice special characters. I hope it clearly spells it out in the book that these characters are supposed to be for any generic marine army to avoid a lot of pointless 'fluff' arguments.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy — GMT

LRs and Drop Pods carrying 6 termies makes up for no more termie command squads.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

deitpike — GMT

a bit mistaken on the scout rules there
those special rules (booby traps and locator beacon) are for scout bikers, not scouts

locator beacon just makes units deep striking close to it not scatter

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

[quote=blood angel]Tough 6 and feel no pain on that chap is pretty haus.

The UMs are getting a lot of nice special characters. I hope it clearly spells it out in the book that these characters are supposed to be for any generic marine army to avoid a lot of pointless 'fluff' arguments.
[/quote]

Agreed. I am really kinda tired of the ranting philistine arguments regarding the mixing of different things like that. You want fluff? Go read a fething book.

Eldar set the precedent for this by removing the difference. You can take eldrad and yriel in the same army, why not SM as well?

I am certain there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth though.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Eldramesha — GMT

[quote=deitpike]
locator beacon just makes units deep striking close to it not scatter[/quote]

In short it operates exactly like an Icon of Chaos.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

In short, it works exactly like a teleport homer, which is what it is.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Stelek — GMT

Alot of new Marine info (again)

deitpike — GMT

like a teleport homer, but for any unit deep striking (jump packs, drop pods, terminators, land speeders, etc)
Teleport homer only works for termies "teleport" deep striking

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Stelek — GMT

[quote=Hellfury][quote=blood angel]Tough 6 and feel no pain on that chap is pretty haus.

The UMs are getting a lot of nice special characters. I hope it clearly spells it out in the book that these characters are supposed to be for any generic marine army to avoid a lot of pointless 'fluff' arguments.
[/quote]

Agreed. I am really kinda tired of the ranting philistine arguments regarding the mixing of different things like that. You want fluff? Go read a fething book.

Eldar set the precedent for this by removing the difference. You can take eldrad and yriel in the same army, why not SM as well?

I am certain there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth though.[/quote]

Hilarious stuff!

Rar rar hurr?

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

warpcrafter — GMT

Points costs better go up, that's all I've got to say. WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

I guess being Chaotic in this day and age means giving up all your fancy equipment so that your younger loyalist brothers get to play with it.

Anyway, don't care about the rules, only that Tigurius is still in the book.

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

aka_mythos — GMT

*drool* scout toys...

I'm starting to see why one person said a while ago that even though the scout squad was downgraded a bit they'd still be worth taking and could get more expensive very quickly... too many toys.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

[quote=deitpike]like a teleport homer, but for any unit deep striking (jump packs, drop pods, terminators, land speeders, etc)
Teleport homer only works for termies "teleport" deep striking[/quote]

Hmmm you're right. That does appear to be the distinction.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

His Master's Voice — GMT

Shrike=new speed Prince?

Pedor Kantor gives +1 attack to all friendly modles within 12". Ouch

Typhoon is heavy 2. Yay

Thelion pins and rends with a bolter. Hurrr

Alot of new Marine info (again)

quietus86 — GMT

still no points listit so I em still not shure how over powerd they are if they are over powert only thingI em notising is that evry new codex gets one troop unit that is realy good for its points looks at rumors of tactical squad and looks at the shoota boy's

Alot of new Marine info (again)

smiling Assassin — GMT

Ahh.

If this ever gets to 6th Ed., the LEAST GW could do (for the poor, weedy, undernourished, un-loved SM Players with obviously a MASSIVE disadvantage to EVERY other army) would be to inpose some kind of Power for Commanders...

[b]Exterminatus[/b] - 60 Pts.

- On a 4+ (OOH RISKY) destroy every single fricking enemy unit.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Noisy_Marine — GMT

So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Valhallan42nd — GMT

[quote=Hellfury]Yeah...but BOLS also get their info primarily from Warseer, Dakka and B&C. Regardless, I am not a fan of the site. Lauded as the place to find rumours, yet they are the ones who usually get the info last.

I am just commenting on how screwy the price is because it is listed as the same price as both the tac squad and codex, which we all know are two separate prices.[/quote]

I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).

Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

[quote=Hellfury][quote=deitpike]like a teleport homer, but for any unit deep striking (jump packs, drop pods, terminators, land speeders, etc)
Teleport homer only works for termies "teleport" deep striking[/quote]

Hmmm you're right. That does appear to be the distinction. [/quote]

Well this would be an 'ok' combination with the new vanguard vets that assault after DS. Of course, once you lay the beacon down people will simply stay over 6'' away. I can't remember with the new rule book, when do you place DS units? Before moving others? If not and simply 'during the movement phase'....then you could move these guys, deploy beacon...then DS vets and assault...

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Schepp himself — GMT

[quote]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

And the moral of the story is, don't turn traitor kids, because only the losers turn traitor...

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. Isn't that how all roleplaying games work, the good guys get extra weapons and skills and girls and stuff while the bad guys are evil...and get nothing because they stabbed the npcs.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

reds8n — GMT

[quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

Really good dental- comes with the extra claws, horns etc.

That and a free bonus CC weapon !!

So... would it be too cheesy to use the loyalist codex for my chaos boys ? Given the boosts that the special characters seem to give much of/the entire army they are in I can see why the Imperium was perhaps quite happy to see people like Lucius and Fabius leave.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

His Master's Voice — GMT

[quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

You get to mess with Daemonettes.

Or Plaguebearers, depending on what you prefer.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Lormax — GMT

[quote=His Master's Voice]You get to mess with Daemonettes.[/quote]

They got nerfed recently too

Deamonettes, now with 100% less boobs!

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Grot 6 — GMT

Bring on the Cheese!!!!!

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Liber Chaos — GMT

[quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

Based on the current CSM codex ....

..... absolutely nothing.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Liber Chaos — GMT

[quote=His Master's Voice]

You get to mess with Daemonettes.

Or Plaguebearers, depending on what you prefer. [/quote]

But the new Daemonettes aren't even hot any more, unless you like the current gender-confused models.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Valhallan42nd — GMT

[quote=Liber Chaos][quote=His Master's Voice]

You get to mess with Daemonettes.

Or Plaguebearers, depending on what you prefer. [/quote]

But the new Daemonettes aren't even hot any more, unless you like the current gender-confused models.[/quote]

And that's the thing. Slaanesh does like gender confusion. S/he makes that dark nasty part of the Red Light District look like kindergarten. So, yay.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Tribune — GMT

HeroHammer = Fail

Meanwhile, scout bikes: New models, new rules. Quelle surprise!

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Lormax]Deamonettes, now with 100% less boobs![/quote]

And 100% less rules if you're playing CSM.

BYE

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Liber Chaos — GMT

[quote=Valhallan42nd]And that's the thing. Slaanesh does like gender confusion. S/he makes that dark nasty part of the Red Light District look like kindergarten. So, yay.[/quote]

Agreed. But isn't the point to seduce people first and then hit them with the horror of what they really are? The new 'nettes are about as seductive as ... well, plaguebearers. The prior bondage chick version is another story ........

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Tribune]HeroHammer = Fail

Meanwhile, scout bikes: New models, new rules. Quelle surprise![/quote]

Isn't it clear we've reached critical mass with Space Marine releases? After Drop Pods and Scouts Bikes, what's left? Well... nothing, which is why we have completely new units (Redeemer, Thunderfire, Sternguard/Vanguard Vets, loads of new special characters, Scout Speeders, Iron Breaker Dreads or whatever they're called) pulled out of thin air?

Marines had reached the point where GW couldn't realistically re-do the same thing for the 8 millionth time (recutting the Tactical sprues again would be costly and not worth it). We've got all the new Chaplains and Librarians, all the main units (Tac, Dev, Assault, Termy, Termy Assault, Scouts and Command) are all plastic. Hell, even the Commander is placstic. The Vindicator is plastic. The Whirlwind is plastic. Virtually everything has a model (except the Drop Pod), so the only thing they [i]could[/i] do was make up a bunch of new units that will either be retconned into the fluff or be 'recent discoveries of ancient technology'.

The only real clever release is the recut Land Speeder. Historically that thing has been a nightmare to construct, so recutting that makes sense (especially when you include plastic bits to make all the different types). But I expect this will happen to all armies eventually. Once you've re-released everything for the the 3rd or 4th time, you really can't do it a 5th time without looking like you're releasing the same model, but with a new hat. You have to just invent new stuff to add to the old stuff, to avoid going over the same ground and to make people buy new models.

BYE

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Lormax — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.]And 100% less rules if you're playing CSM.[/quote]

That pendulum is swung the other way when you play deamons, so par for the course?

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Valhallan42nd — GMT

That's what they have the soporific musk for, friend.

Either which, I like the new models. I just wish I liked their rules a bit more. I'd still like to see an non-ez-cheez plaguebearer.

We should also stop derailing this thread as well.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Lormax]That pendulum is swung the other way when you play deamons, so par for the course?[/quote]

No one ever '[i]played daemons[/i]' before they forced us to. Remember that.

You want more on this, ask Janthkin. He probably has a bigger daemon collection than I do and felt the impact of 'Generic Daemons' even more than the rest of us.

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Valhallan42nd]We should also stop derailing this thread as well. [/quote]

It's a thread about fancy Spase Mareins (HURR!) getting fancy new space toys (double HURR!). What else is there to do except bitch endlessly about either it, or how Chaos Marines have been shafted once again?

BYE

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

His Master's Voice — GMT

[quote=Lormax][quote=His Master's Voice]You get to mess with Daemonettes.[/quote]

They got nerfed recently too

Deamonettes, now with 100% less boobs!

[/quote]

I never said it's enjoyable. Unless we're talking about MY Daemonettes. Scarlet Johannson hits Jessica Alba driving a truck full of sharp objects. Miraculously there's no blood...

[quote]Marines had reached the point where GW couldn't realistically re-do the same thing for the 8 millionth time (recutting the Tactical sprues again would be costly and not worth it).[/quote]

AFAIK the next step with Marines is a complete redesign of the basic power armor. Look at Dainton's work to see how Goodwin wants SM to look like. But that's years away...

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

They need at least another edition with Marines after 5th before they do a complete redesign like the change between 2nd and 3rd.

The next line due for a complete redesign (ignoring Dark Eldar) would probably be Necrons. The only alternative is to give them loads of new options and squad upgrades (something that seems to be an anathema to Jervis) and recut the sprue.

Guard can be done over and over again (just make a new plastic kit - they're all the same anyway). They need Orks for another edition or so before they get a redesign. Eldar are probably good for another edition, but they still have things that could be redone (Wraithguard, Warp Spiders, Jetbikes, Shining Spears, etc.) so don't expect Eldar 3.0 before 7th or so Edition. Tyranids won't get one for a LONG while.

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

His Master's Voice — GMT

Well, according to Jes, the only line that needs redesigning are SM because their models don't match the fluff description. Take an average SM model and compare it to an average SM illustration and you'll see. All lines go through design evolution but SM are set for a revolution. But since revolutions (especially milk cow revolutions) are risky GW won't be rushing this one...

Alot of new Marine info (again)

BossBootFang — GMT

do any other Ork players want the Drop pod released so that they can loot it for part?

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Lormax — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.]No one ever '[i]played daemons[/i]' before they forced us to. Remember that.

You want more on this, ask Janthkin. He probably has a bigger daemon collection than I do and felt the impact of 'Generic Daemons' even more than the rest of us.[/quote]

I'm sure that Squat players, LatD players, Dogs of War players really feel sorry for that...

I modelled a number of triple las tanks for my BA army. They started sucking ass in 4th and are awful in 5th. My tanks have new weapons now. I modelled a number of death company with power weapons and power fists. What a waste now. I painted Rapier Laser Destroyers back from 2nd edition. Whoops. I used to run an allied Callidus Assassin (only her, I don't have an Inquisitor or his retinue). She's shelved. I bought or traded for 9 Land Speeders, then ordered the assault cannon bits from GW. They suck now. I collected a good 6-8 Rhino's for 3rd edition. Then the Rhino Rush nerf hit. I painted up 4 plasma cannons for my Dev's in 3rd. Shelved through 4th. I modelled a number of assault marines with plasma pistols for 4th, then the BA PDF codex hit. Waste of points. I bought the OLD Razorback that had a lascannon and twin linked plasma guns on the turret, painted it up and everything. That hasn't been able to be used for how long now?

I'm sure you get my point, I don't feel sorry. Adjust with the changes to the game.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Death By Monkeys — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.]he only real clever release is the recut Land Speeder. Historically that thing has been a nightmare to construct, so recutting that makes sense (especially when you include plastic bits to make all the different types). But I expect this will happen to all armies eventually. Once you've re-released everything for the the 3rd or 4th time, you really can't do it a 5th time without looking like you're releasing the same model, but with a new hat. You have to just invent new stuff to add to the old stuff, to avoid going over the same ground and to make people buy new models.[/quote]
Quoted for truth. I think this is going to be the nice thing about the Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer box - can make 3 different LRs from one box! Get some magnets and a few extra bits and you've got yourself a convertible Land Raider.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

oni — GMT

[quote=Valhallan42nd]I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).[/quote]
I agree. Tho I am less than thrilled about the lame banner ads. Especially the one that displays shit about Scientology.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

40kenthusiast — GMT

"So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember."

Lash, Obliterators, ridiculously good Troop choices that are also fearless.

Seriously, even if these rumors are true, how does it render Chaos Space Marines obsolete? So the Marines are getting some new toys. Maybe they'll catch up to CSM. Passing them would need more toys than the rumors have them, or an Ork style ridiculous point advantage.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

[quote=oni][quote=Valhallan42nd]I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).[/quote]
I agree. Tho I am less than thrilled about the lame banner ads. Especially the one that displays shit about Scientology.[/quote]

Heh heh, yeah....banner ads....

This forum could benefit from a roundup sticky of whatever the current subject is (like Seer does). Would save people from skipping over the angst to find the info.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius — GMT

[quote=AgeOfEgos][quote=oni][quote=Valhallan42nd]I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).[/quote]
I agree. Tho I am less than thrilled about the lame banner ads. Especially the one that displays shit about Scientology.[/quote]

Heh heh, yeah....banner ads....

This forum could benefit from a roundup sticky of whatever the current subject is (like Seer does). Would save people from skipping over the angst to find the info.[/quote]

Skipping the angst?

Here, where getting all apoplectic at the mere mention of Space Marines?

Please!

Dakka should probably start issuing warnings every time someone says "Spase Marienz!!~!11!! Hurrr!!1!@~!!".

Well, every time someone says it and means it…

Or something.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Abadabadoobaddon — GMT

[quote=His Master's Voice][quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

You get to mess with Daemonettes.

Or Plaguebearers, depending on what you prefer. [/quote]
I think you mean "Lesser Daemons".

[quote=H.B.M.C.]Isn't it clear we've reached critical mass with Space Marine releases? After Drop Pods and Scouts Bikes, what's left? Well... nothing, which is why we have completely new units (Redeemer, Thunderfire, Sternguard/Vanguard Vets, loads of new special characters, Scout Speeders, Iron Breaker Dreads or whatever they're called) pulled out of thin air?[/quote]
Well, they could have gone the CSM route and started eliminating stuff instead.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Abadabadoobaddon — GMT

[quote=40kenthusiast]"So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember."

Lash, Obliterators, ridiculously good Troop choices that are also fearless.[/quote]
And what if you're undivided? Or do Word Bearers all of a sudden have Slaanesh princes and Thousand Sons in their legion?

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Lemartes — GMT

Scout rules sound about right. GW were not selling very many scout models after moving them to the elite section. Quick fix, make them ubber and they will start to sell again.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Noisy_Marine — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.]

Isn't it clear we've reached critical mass with Space Marine releases? [/quote]

I'll say. Bring on the plastic aspect warriors! And plastic sisters!

[quote=Lormax]

I'm sure you get my point, I don't feel sorry. Adjust with the changes to the game.

[/quote]

I'd be fine with that if all those changes didn't end up costing a lot of money. Or ripping the soul out of a certain army. I say keep yelling because if we yell enough GW might listen. I know it's a long shot, but it's possible. Heck, GW is actually doing timely FAQ's now and asking people to send them more questions.

[quote=40kenthusiast]"So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember."

Lash, Obliterators, ridiculously good Troop choices that are also fearless.

[/quote]

Lash is good, but cheesy in the extreme. I personally don't like using it because it's so powerful.

Obliterators are good, but even they get wiped out by focused fire. Everyone at my store know how good they are and always shoot at them first. I had quite a few games were my Obliterators died before doing anything meaningful because I failed my cover save, invul save, etc. Then again, I only have 5 so maybe I need to take more.

As for the cult troops: Plague marines are great, but expensive.

Khornze Bezerkers are ok. They're not great unless they get into CC, which doesn't always happen. Because who the heck wants to fight them?

Noise Marines I have no experience with until I get more sonic weapons.

And Thousand Sons, are good, but got nerfed by the new cover rules. Now that most things have a 4+ save, that ap3 isn't so good anymore. And again, they're expensive, and absolutely crap in CC.

I'm thinking my Black Legion my turn into Black Spikey Loyalists at this point. Or I'll just focus on collecting cool models, because these new rules are sick.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Grot 6 — GMT

Thats the problem though. GW HAD a way to continue to give players what they wanted all the while continuing to keep the SM's relevent. It WAS called, CHAPTERS.

We get the distinct pleasure of Slannish giving it to us, then coming behind it with it's nerf claw, cutting off the SM and throwing them on the floorhammer.
Now that the game goes large scale, we LOSE chapters and get the red, green, and blue ones.

Takes it a step backwards in such a way as to leave people scratching thier head asking what the last ten years were for.

I for one don't mind new, interesting and revamping it if it didn't work in the first place, but to rehash the same time and time again and then pull cheese out of your fourth point of contact and act like its exciting really drives it home how generic the poor dumb space marines are really becoming.

I do like the range, there is a distinct fell, a little more detail, and a good range of them, but damn, is it asking too much for a supposedlyu new and improved version of a game to come up with established standards coming out of the gate, instead of playing one upsmanship and nerfing itself out of existance?

Space marines are pretty much a standard, now how about lets look past the color and give up some goods as to WHY ELSE I should pick them, except on basis of color.

CHAPTERS, the other white meat.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

spaceman spiff — GMT

[quote=Hellfury]In short, it works exactly like a teleport homer, which is what it is.[/quote]

There is one other possibility in that it could work as a Teleport Homer that lets you DS off of it the turn the Scouts come in from a board edge.

The current Teleport Homer rules don't allow that. However, that is only spelled out in the wargear section as their is nothing in the 5th Ed rules that prohibits DS off of a Teleport Homer (or an Icon for that matter). 5th Ed allows you to make reserve rolls and then move on reserves in any order you want. If they lifted the wargear restriction then you could move the Scouts on and Teleport your Termies off of them.

However, if they did that and didn't FAQ Ravenwing and their Teleport Homers, I would be a bit

Alot of new Marine info (again)

brassangel — GMT

If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Noisy_Marine — GMT

[quote=brassangel]If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.[/quote]

Who said anything about losing all the time? I'm just saying that the CSM codex ain't that great compared to all the amazing new stuff SM's get.

[quote]
Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.[/quote]

Yeah, another opportunity to totally screw the pooch. Then again, they might be good. Who knows? Until we actually see the new stuff, which could be a long time from now, no one can say. In the meantime the current codex leaves me feeling ... bored.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Jayden63 — GMT

[quote=brassangel]If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.[/quote]

As long as you take some pretty specific stuff. Yeah thats true, the chaos codex can be tough. However, the old codex made a strong or at the very least competitive list using any of the options and Uber list if you just stuck with the broken shit. Truthfully it was hard to make a poor list under the old codex. Unless you were trying to play T-sons. Then well, it was business as usual in the screw over T-sons camp.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

[quote=Noisy_Marine][quote=brassangel]If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.[/quote]

Who said anything about losing all the time? I'm just saying that the CSM codex ain't that great compared to all the amazing new stuff SM's get.

[quote]
Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.[/quote]

Yeah, another opportunity to totally screw the pooch. Then again, they might be good. Who knows? Until we actually see the new stuff, which could be a long time from now, no one can say. In the meantime the current codex leaves me feeling ... bored. [/quote]

*Starts to type a reply than stares at your avatar*

*Starts to type again than stares at your avatar*

*Starts to....aww screw it, what's the story on your avatar?

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Boss_Salvage — GMT

[quote=Noisy_Marine]I'm thinking my Black Legion my turn into Black Spikey Loyalists at this point.[/quote]
I'm sure you've got more self-respect than going down that road, Noisy! I agree with your takes on the "Obviously Good" things people point out in the CSM book, including 1k Sons ultimately still being crap and Lash being so powerful I won't run it. The one thing that continually gets stuck in my craw though is chaos dread vs loyalist [i]dreads[/i] - WS 5 BS 5 reroll damage venerables, AV13 siegers ... If chaos dreads are stuck with no mutated hull at least let them have the old Crazed table where blood rage meant 2x attaks and fire frenzy doubled at the enemy first! FFS!

[quote=brassangel]If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.[/quote]
Like Noisy said, the point isn't us wanting an AUTOWIN army, it's wanting any kind of depth and mutability in an army we love. And it's freaking called CHAOS, of all the codexes to steamroll flat

[quote=AgeOfEgos]*Starts to....aww screw it, what's the story on your avatar? [/quote]
German Games Day Chicks, Natürlich

- Salvage

Alot of new Marine info (again)

JohnHwangDD — GMT

[quote=Valhallan42nd]I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).[/quote]

QFT!
____

[quote=oni]
I agree. Tho I am less than thrilled about the lame banner ads. Especially the one that displays shit about Scientology.[/quote]

"banner ads"?

I use Firefox with Adblock Plus, so I am not familiar with this phrase.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

JohnHwangDD — GMT

[quote=Liber Chaos]But the new Daemonettes aren't even hot any more, unless you like the current gender-confused models.[/quote]
For the purported target audience of newly-pubescent boys, isn't that about right?

Also, wouldn't that be appropriate for the other stereotypical GW gamer - basement loner who's into she-male pr0n.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

JohnHwangDD — GMT

[quote=Lormax]I'm sure that Squat players, LatD players, Dogs of War players really feel sorry for that...

I'm sure you get my point, I don't feel sorry. Adjust with the changes to the game.[/quote]
*raises hand as a Dogs of War player*

I don't feel sorry at all.

Unless I get an Army Book that's stupidly good.

Then I'll feel vindicated.

Yes I know he can't see me... I like the sound of my own... uhh... typing...

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=JohnHwangDD]Also, wouldn't that be appropriate for the other stereotypical GW gamer - basement loner who's into she-male pr0n.[/quote]

What the hell kind'a people are you hangin' out with Jonny-boy if you consider [i]that[/i] a stereotype?

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Liber Chaos — GMT

[quote=Boss_Salvage]Like Noisy said, the point isn't us wanting an AUTOWIN army, it's wanting any kind of depth and mutability in an army we love. And it's freaking called CHAOS, of all the codexes to steamroll flat [/quote]

Exactly. I have won enough games with the new codex but it is simply bland in comparison to the old one. I don't do tournaments and I don't power game (never run 2X Lash Princes and don't plan to). I selected Chaos as my first army because of the character and variety of play styles you could create, not to win every game. Even some of my regular opponents have now asked me to start using my old codex because it is more interesting for them to play against than the current one.

Now, I don't begrudge any army their shiny new toys. It keeps things interesting. However, it is a little troubling to see my codex rendered generic and the new models like Possessed and Spawn (which are pretty cool looking) given iffy rules, and compare that to the new SM toys and rules. I can also understand how some of the other SM chapter players (e.g., DA, BT) feel and sympathize with them -- even if they are loyalist scum

Codex Legions? I'll believe it when I see it and don't expect that for a long time since other armies are in dire need of a new codex. I am also not convinced this was part of GW's original plan. I suspect it was more of an after-the-fact, CYA move when faced with some of the backlash from removing the legion rules in the first place. Anyway, rant over. Carry on.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Apone — GMT

[quote=JohnHwangDD][quote=Valhallan42nd]I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).[/quote]

QFT!
____

[/quote]

Seconded.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Beast of Nurgle — GMT

They could have saved a ton of money on printing the new SM codex by just having it be 1 page with 1 special rule: Marines Win.

Honestly... I know the SM are GW's "pet" army, but up till now they haven't truely shown favoritsm. This codex is just a big "screw you" to every non-marine army out there. They really should change the tag line of the game to "40k- the game of Marines. We only wrote other armies to give our marines something different to slaughter every week."

I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can? (It MIGHT be bearable if Vanguard vets are 0-1 but they'd never put a LIMITATION on their favorite army, would they?) Sorry, but that was the nail in the coffin.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

stonefox — GMT

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Valhallan42nd — GMT

[quote=Beast of Nurgle]They could have saved a ton of money on printing the new SM codex by just having it be 1 page with 1 special rule: Marines Win.

Honestly... I know the SM are GW's "pet" army, but up till now they haven't truely shown favoritsm. This codex is just a big "screw you" to every non-marine army out there. They really should change the tag line of the game to "40k- the game of Marines. We only wrote other armies to give our marines something different to slaughter every week."

I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can? (It MIGHT be bearable if Vanguard vets are 0-1 but they'd never put a LIMITATION on their favorite army, would they?) Sorry, but that was the nail in the coffin.[/quote]

[quote=Valhallan42nd]I was just as upset about the proposed changes as anyone else.

And then I sat and thought about it. Most of changes are to things that would not affact my list building. I don't use high-end high-costed killie squads, I don't think I'd ever deep strike a unit close enough to probably scatter into them and die, esspecailly a high costed unit, etc. [b][i][u]Most of these added units will just appear in high pointed apoc style games, and most of the better armies will focus on making balanced tight lists with proper support.[/b][/i][/u]

[/quote]

From another thread, but it bears repeating here. My advice would be patience when we don't even know how much all of this stuff costs. Epidimus with a solid mono-nurgle list or Bloodcrushers with Kiaros Fateweaver are just as bad as anything proposed here, if not worse.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius — GMT

Exactly!

How many Marine armies (4th edition) were actually 'top tier'?

Alot of new Marine info (again)

MagickalMemories — GMT

[quote=smiling Assassin]Ahh.

If this ever gets to 6th Ed., the LEAST GW could do (for the poor, weedy, undernourished, un-loved SM Players with obviously a MASSIVE disadvantage to EVERY other army) would be to inpose some kind of Power for Commanders...

[b]Exterminatus[/b] - 60 Pts.

- On a 4+ (OOH RISKY) destroy every single fricking enemy unit.[/quote]

Dude.
Don't be an ass. That's just ridiculous.

To be balanced, it would have to be about 100 points and then only on a 5+... and they have to roll PER UNIT, of course.

Eric

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

MagickalMemories — GMT

[quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

Eric

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Death By Monkeys — GMT

[quote=MagickalMemories][quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.[/quote]
And really, it's the pustules that make all the girls go weak in the knees...

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

[quote=MagickalMemories][quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

Eric[/quote]

That reminds me of when I was drunk in Tokyo...

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Orlanth — GMT

The more I look and hear the more depressed I am about the new changes. GW are getting more and more blatant, it was unsubtle enough when they made the Reaver titan 500pts underpriced (at a minimum) to try and sell models. This is far worse.

Teh new Spase Marienz Codex is designed to give Games Workshop a 3+ save against Hasbro, however profit warning reports are Ap2.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Rbb — GMT

[quote=MagickalMemories][quote=Noisy_Marine]So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember. [/quote]

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

Eric[/quote]

The perk used to be hooking up with daemonettes, but they even found a way to screw that up.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Abadabadoobaddon — GMT

[quote=Beast of Nurgle]I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can?[/quote]
That's because daemons are [i]daemonic[/i], not [i]heroic[/i], and thus can't use [i]Heroic[/i] Intervention. Everybody knows you need to be a [i]hero[/i] to assault after Deep Striking - duh! Silly daemon, rules exceptions are for marines!

[quote=Valhallan42nd]My advice would be patience when we don't even know how much all of this stuff costs.[/quote]
I don't care if they cost 300 pts each. What possible reason could there be to allow Vanguard Vets to assault after Deep Strike? I really want to get ahold of the new marine dex just to see what kind of bullsh!t fluff gymnastics they pull to justify this little gem.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius Walks — GMT

[quote=Abadabadoobaddon]That's because daemons are [i]daemonic[/i], not [i]heroic[/i], and thus can't use [i]Heroic[/i] Intervention. Everybody knows you need to be a [i]hero[/i] to assault after Deep Striking - duh! Silly daemon, rules exceptions are for marines!
[/quote]

Does this make Lesser Daemons the unsung heroes of 40k, or does their use of "Daemonic Summoning" as opposed to Deep Strike per se strip them of the honorific?

I am also looking forward to reading the new fluff . . .

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Death By Monkeys — GMT

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Orlanth — GMT

[quote=Abadabadoobaddon]
I don't care if they cost 300 pts each. What possible reason could there be to allow Vanguard Vets to assault after Deep Strike? I really want to get ahold of the new marine dex just to see what kind of bullsh!t fluff gymnastics they pull to justify this little gem.[/quote]

Actually they should be able to assault and deep strike, as they are elite of the elite troops. However that should be with an expensive upgrade, which is also available to CSM Raptors, which is mirrored by an exarch ability to leap from a transport into assault. Daemons should not be able to normally deepstrike and assault, but a special sorceror or daemon psyker power could 'hex' a target so that daemons can deeptrike into combat with it. These rules would make sense. SM vets and Raptors making 'breakneck' combat drops, Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions being acrobatic and leaping from Wave serpents. The idea of cursing an enemy so that daemons materialise right next to him to carry him off to the warp also fits. Heck, I should be writing the rules.

Everyone else should deep strike and assault the slow way.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Abadabadoobaddon — GMT

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

AgeOfEgos — GMT

[quote=Orlanth]
Actually they should be able to assault and deep strike, as they are elite of the elite troops. However that should be with an expensive upgrade, which is also available to CSM Raptors, which is mirrored by an exarch ability to leap from a transport into assault. Daemons should not be able to normally deepstrike and assault, but a special sorceror or daemon psyker power could 'hex' a target so that daemons can deeptrike into combat with it. These rules would make sense. SM vets and Raptors making 'breakneck' combat drops, Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions being acrobatic and leaping from Wave serpents. The idea of cursing an enemy so that daemons materialise right next to him to carry him off to the warp also fits. Heck, I should be writing the rules.

Everyone else should deep strike and assault the slow way.[/quote]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing more units have the ability. I think the Vets do pay for the ability though...it was said before they were around 30 pts/each. Pretty pricey for assault marine stat lines. Of course, they have more options than assault marines...but again that's even more points too. I don't think the vets will be that common (Perhaps Kantor armies?).

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Aduro — GMT

Space Marine Librarians can use two psykic powers in a turn and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Eldar, Demons, Inquisition and others already do it.

Space Marines led by a special character can assault a possible 24" a turn, and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Tyranids already do it.

Space Marines have a unit that can assault after Deep Strike and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Orks and Chaos already do it.

I'm sensing a pattern...

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Da Boss — GMT

I think it's a big deal because it takes what was unique and cool from those armies and gives it to marines. If marines get all the special bits from everyone else, then everyone else is going to be annoyed.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Iorek — GMT

Legoburner, is there a way we can set up some sort of mechanism to collect a nickel for all the mods each time someone panics about a new Codex?

(Should have done this YEARS ago).

When I regularly get tabled by n00bs using the new Space Marine Codex, I'll gripe. Until then, I just can't find the energy to be upset about it.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

I, for one, am not upset about this at all. I still despise the need for special characters (why can't someone just have the Sallie special rules without needing that Sallie guy to lead them?), but I think this Codex sounds fantastic.

The only thing I'm upset about is how Chaos got totally bonned by a bunch of unimaginative fuck ups when Loyalists get all the fancy new toys.

As I said, it sucks to be a traitor... but my Ultramarines couldn't be happier!!!

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Voodoo_Chile — GMT

I bought a Space Wolves army off a friend I had planned to turn into more Chaos but now I think Ill hold on. This Codex sounds great and if there is just enough momentum it might carry on into a Space Wolves codex of equal worth

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

Yeah I dont see what the hub bub is about regarding the sky is falling.

There are some really good toys, and a couple items I think is a little on the overpowered side.

But in general, I would say that this codex is toned down alot from what we saw in 4th ed. no more termie command squads, no more 2 heavys in 5 man termies, forced to take 10 tacs just to get any option other than bolters, etc.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Kallbrand — GMT

The problem isnt beeing tabled by noobs, if you know half a thing about playing you will be able to just manhandle them(as by pure definition they are noobs and thus dont know the game).

The problem is medium to experienced players against whom you will be fighting in an upphill battle and usually loose unless you can roll unstatistically good.

Also, the guys stating the "ppl always whine about new codexes" arent really on spot. Much(some are just made by trolls tho) of that whine have usually been made with valid points, everyone can see what is obviously broken by just a glance. Lash for example or the orc codex(before 5th ed) overall and we all know those were right, actually we all knew that from the beginning.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Valhallan42nd — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.]I, for one, am not upset about this at all. I still despise the need for special characters (why can't someone just have the Sallie special rules without needing that Sallie guy to lead them?), but I think this Codex sounds fantastic.

The only thing I'm upset about is how Chaos got totally bonned by a bunch of unimaginative fuck ups when Loyalists get all the fancy new toys.

As I said, it sucks to be a traitor... but my Ultramarines couldn't be happier!!!

BYE[/quote]

I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

stonefox — GMT

[quote=Kallbrand]
Also, the guys stating the "ppl always whine about new codexes" arent really on spot. Much(some are just made by trolls tho) of that whine have usually been made with valid points, everyone can see what is obviously broken by just a glance. Lash for example or the orc codex(before 5th ed) overall and we all know those were right, actually we all knew that from the beginning.[/quote]

People are misinterpreting sarcasm for whining. It's not "Damn GW marines are overpowered!" It's "Ah, GW, there it goes with those marines again." [IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/stonefox01/smileys/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Astalado — GMT

I agree with allot of these new posts. Everyone is talking about Chaos and also Eldar and orks. What people don't realise Tau is now no longer able to viable in tournements. Tau can win when I can focus and destroy one space marine unit at a time. Now with these new abilities I will have 4 to five units of marines on me by turn two. And if the rumors are right and giving all marines 2 attacks because all have bolt and combat weapon. Thats 30 attacks against tau on assault. and I get int 2, str 3, T 3. Wow... I am dead. I have played tau sense the time they came out. I built a marine killing army designed that most marine army could only get 2 to 1 units a turn close enough to assault. I could deal with that with vespid and many Tau Warriors. The problem is this.. In fith addition with all the new mission in tournements dealing with taking objectives. Makes tau have to move to there death. I understand Chaos Player, Eldar and all worried, I am just saddened. I see Drop pods with assaulting marines, Fleet moving Assault marines. Infiltrating Fleet units (Shriek). Tau is Dead.. untill we get a new book in like I don't know a year maybe 2.

Sorry, I am not whinning. I am just making a point. Space Marines were designed to be balanced against the Demons.

How the armies will deal with this new Marines:

Eldar = Can move and handle this new rules. Player have to become creative
Ork = Da horde they have the toughness and numbers to deal
Nids = Speed and number, out assault them
Dark Eldar = Numbers, assault the marines do not allow the marines to assault
Necon = Shoot and move. Viel of darkeness to a area and kill the marines. Then move and do it again. Use moniliths to bounce around and keep the Marines guessing
Imperial Guard = I have seen this done. Tank, Flame Tank, Flame thrower and vet squads with Plasma guns. Use there armor and barrage and template them to death
Space Marines = Fight cheese with cheese.
Chaos Marines = Feel no Pain t 5, out assault them.

Tau = No barrage weapons except a tank with canister or a Ion gun, but not barrage. won't help - Crisses Suits to few in a squad and expensive and no inv saves unless you removes weapons but you need that, Fire warriors- to static and have no chance in hand to hand and with units deep striking into assault there is nothing to shoot. Vespid, can kill marines but are to weak to really take any fire and also can't fight and loved to be flamed or assaulted by drop pods. Broadsides... awsome but can only kill one or two a turn to easy to be assaulted. Getting a feel for this army... Kroot, to week and no power weapons to be helpfull in hand to hand. They will kill a couple but to darn squishy in hand to hand, Marines will kill more and then beat them in hand to hand.

Assault in this new look in the marines will be fun against chaos but broken against the tau.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Valhallan42nd]I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately. [/quote]

Done in the typcal ham-fisted, pendulum, overbalancing method that GW is famous for, and now Chaos players have to suffer for another 6 years while Marines get a really, really cool Codex.

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Antonin — GMT

[quote=Aduro]Space Marine Librarians can use two psykic powers in a turn and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Eldar, Demons, Inquisition and others already do it.

Space Marines led by a special character can assault a possible 24" a turn, and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Tyranids already do it.

Space Marines have a unit that can assault after Deep Strike and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Orks and Chaos already do it.

I'm sensing a pattern...[/quote]

... I'm not sure generic demons are on the same playing field as a bunch of veterans with power weapons and 3+ armor saves.

I sure wish my Khorne Berzerkers could charge a potential of 24" in a turn (and get infiltrate! Boy, people would go berserk if that happened). Which Tyranid unit are you thinking of? Do they infiltrate too?

I always thought that Thousand Sons were supposed to have the best sorcerors in the universe (maybe after Eldar). Silly me!

New name for SMs: UltraSwissarmyknifemarines - they do everything!

as people note though, we'll all get over it eventually. I do wish, as H.B.M.C. that the focus was not on special characters - that's annoying.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Astalado — GMT

Sorry had to edit my last post . and I agree with Antonin

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Wehrkind — GMT

In terms of DS and Assault, I kind of think all Jump troops should be able to assault after DS, considering they are flying to the spot, not teleporting or hopping out of a pod. I figure that would give them better ability to steer and hit the enemy.
I would say they should take a dangerous terrain test though to do it.

Generally though, I am still not too worried about the contents of the codex. I am jealous that Marines get so many different options and units, but at the same time I don't expect to see very many in any given army outside of giant games. I would prefer that all codex's have a huge number of different units and options instead of all being equally stripped down.

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Tribune — GMT

Here's that annoying pattern in full:-

[u]Rulebook Edition n[/u]
'No one is able to do [i]x[/i] cool thing that used to be possible, but now we got rid of it to improve the game balance'

[u]Codex A[/u]
'Apart from these guys, who get it because of their super duper specialness'

[u]Codex B[/u]
'And these guys'

[u]Codex C[/u]
'And err these guys'

[u]Rulebook Edition n+1[/u]
'Right then! To make sure there's better game mechanics and balance, we've done away with the ability to do [i]x[/i]'

[u]New Codex A[/u]
'Apart from these guys...'

Now [b]there's[/b] your pattern, Aduro

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Noisy_Marine — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.][quote=Valhallan42nd]I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately. [/quote]

Done in the typcal ham-fisted, pendulum, overbalancing method that GW is famous for, and now Chaos players have to suffer for another 6 years while Marines get a really, really cool Codex.

BYE[/quote]

Amen to that.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Ratbarf — GMT

[quote=H.B.M.C.][quote=Valhallan42nd]We should also stop derailing this thread as well. [/quote]

It's a thread about fancy Spase Mareins (HURR!) getting fancy new space toys (double HURR!). What else is there to do except bitch endlessly about either it, or how Chaos Marines have been shafted once again?

BYE[/quote]

You know for some reason I see the anti marine people saying this waaaaaay more than the actual marine people. I think the marine players have said it like four times in this thread and the anti marine players are well into the double digits...

[i][b]Edited out the flame- Marcus[/b][/i]

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Hellfury — GMT

Very constructive.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

JohnHwangDD — GMT

[quote=Astalado]What people don't realise Tau is now no longer able to viable in tournements.

Eldar = Can move and handle this new rules. Player have to become creative[/quote]
Tau = Can take Kroot and use Devilfish to move. Player have to become creative

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Ratbarf]So shut the feth up and stop saying it if you don't want to hear it you whining chaos space marines who lost all your cheese![/quote]

You're a classy guy.

BYE

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Gutteridge — GMT

just my 2 cents in,

unless you have seen the codex you can't really say much, unless you want to pointlessly argue about silly rumors go ahead, there is a 1% chance IT MIGHT HAPPEN!!! if your too worried then just keep saying to yourself, [i]'there going to be extreamly over priced [/i]*rocks back and forth continuosly*[i]'[/i]

Cheers,
Gutteridge

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=Gutteridge]unless you have seen the codex you can't really say much, unless you want to pointlessly argue about silly rumors go ahead, there is a 1% chance IT MIGHT HAPPEN!!![/quote]

I can say with some amount of certainty that the majority of what has been posted is 100% true.

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Abadabadoobaddon — GMT

[quote=Kallbrand]The problem isnt beeing tabled by noobs, if you know half a thing about playing you will be able to just manhandle them(as by pure definition they are noobs and thus dont know the game).

The problem is medium to experienced players against whom you will be fighting in an upphill battle and usually loose unless you can roll unstatistically good.[/quote]
No, the problem is Vanguard Veterans (veterans of 100 yrs) having same turn Deep Strike + assault while Raptors (veterans of 10,000 yrs) do not. The problem is Tigurius being equal to or better than Ahriman in the psychic department. The problem is Cassius having a higher Toughness than Typhus. And this has nothing to do with pts costs. It's just all retarded from a background standpoint. 1 on 1 a Night Lords Raptor who's been fighting since the Heresy should be at least the equal of an Ultramarines Vanguard Vet (and of course should cost as much or more).

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Drake_Marcus — GMT

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Drake_Marcus — GMT

[quote=Valhallan42nd][quote=H.B.M.C.]I, for one, am not upset about this at all. I still despise the need for special characters (why can't someone just have the Sallie special rules without needing that Sallie guy to lead them?), but I think this Codex sounds fantastic.

The only thing I'm upset about is how Chaos got totally bonned by a bunch of unimaginative fuck ups when Loyalists get all the fancy new toys.

As I said, it sucks to be a traitor... but my Ultramarines couldn't be happier!!!

BYE[/quote]

I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately. [/quote]

I completely agree with you and that's the problem. GW's Codexes are reactionary, they're emotional responses to the feelings of over/underpoweredness associated with codex they are replacing. A wargaming rulebook has to be written with an analytical mindset, not emotionally. This "we better make this army more powerful since it was underpowered before" BS only makes the entire game unbalanced. But the "nerf that rule/army- it was too powerful before" mindset is equally stupid. Simply put- GW serves no one by writing reactionary rules instead of balanced rules.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

JohnHwangDD — GMT

Except, of course, when a rule/army *is* too powerful...

For example, why didn't C: Daemons get Lash as worded in C: CSM? Why did Rending get toned down? Perhaps because they were too powerful as-is and as-used?

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

BrookM — GMT

I am surprised that those marines aren't getting something along the lines of the rumoured "platoon drill" that the Imperial Guard might be getting next year. I mean, regular guys can go *pew! pew!* and shoot through their own ranks without a hitch and marines can't, even though they gave up their testicles to become super humans that can do everything better. Well, except for the parts that actually require balls.

Hm, might the new codex be overcompensation for the lack of something like that then?

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius — GMT

It's official!

This thread is absolutely played out now!

Re:Alot of new Marine info (again)

Abadabadoobaddon — GMT

I heard that Marneus Calgar's Leadership goes to 11.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius — GMT

Spase Marinez Haterz, Hurr!!1!!!`!

Alot of new Marine info (again)

H.B.M.C. — GMT

[quote=JohnHwangDD]Except, of course, when a rule/army *is* too powerful...

For example, why didn't C: Daemons get Lash as worded in C: CSM? Why did Rending get toned down? Perhaps because they were too powerful as-is and as-used?[/quote]

Proving conclusivley that you didn't understand Drake's post at all.

BYE

Alot of new Marine info (again)

mothman_451 — GMT

so with pedro kantor and inspiring presence if a unit of 5 sternguard are within 12' does the unit have 11 basic attacks if charged or 15. if the former how would this work with mixed weapon squads(power weapons/basic, pw/pf/basic). just wondering if the unit gets an additional attack or each model. i would think each model gets the bonus( even though that is really powerful)but the wording (or posting) suggests otherwise

Alot of new Marine info (again)

enmitee — GMT

there are already a ridiculous number of marine players. yay for more! ¬.¬

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Salvation122 — GMT

Okay, so here, then.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Chaos come out, to much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Many players don't like the lists, and at GTs and cons and such the Dev team fields many questions about "OMG WHY DO THESE SUK NOW." Clearly the path they were going down (while, in my opinion, not a bad one to tread) was not well-received.

So, for the new Space Marine codex, they rework a lot of stuff. People then scream about how it's not fair and Chaos got shafted or whatever.

Is GW not allowed to fix its mistakes?

Isn't this more or less exactly what you said you wanted? Would you honestly prefer that everyone else got stuck with the same (in others' opinions, not mine) cruddy, boring, flavorless rules you have, instead of interesting and dynamic options? Or is the average dakkaite so fueled by schadenfreude that everyone else has to be just as miserable as they are? This is completely ignoring the fact that we have no idea how much any of these options are going to [i]cost.[/i]

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Jayden63 — GMT

Fixing the mistake would be to re-release a revised DA, BA, and Chaos codex. Not leave them vastly inferior for the next four years.

People want balance. GW wants sales. This is why we bitch about an overpowered codex and GW smiles as a new legion of 12 year olds beg momma for the shiny blue box.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

Alpharius — GMT

GW might still be able to 'fix' the BA and DA via FAQ.

GW claims that we'll get Chaos Traitor Legion codices for the "Big 4" 'eventually' (if you believe Jervis and JohnHwangDD ). So, maybe a 'fix' there, which confirms that the latest CSM codex was really Codex Renegades/Black Legion. Though that still leaves the major Undivided Traitors out in the cold.

The new SM codex clearly looks like a minor (or major?) repudiation of the "Jervis Philosophy", though we won't know for sure until the next 40K Codex is released.

Alot of new Marine info (again)

DarthDiggler — GMT

These Space Marines seem extremely... ahem... flexible. There is a wide variety of potential power lists from Brimstones thread. Some of them won't pan out as well as others and a few of them aren't gleamed yet.

It does appear that the Marines have the ability to field a list that, on paper, can hammer most power lists out there right now, however that marine list would be so specific enough that the marine player would have some trouble against another top list.

I will say this, I don't see any unit in the game that gives you the same bang for your buck as a squad of Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Terminators. Is there anything else in the game that has the survivablity of 2+/3+??? Backed up with the power of Thunderhammers.