Anyone keeping track of the list of outstanding hangers on awaiting models?
I do.
Only the Narker is missing as a hanger on from the Book of Judgement. In total, we have 14 hangers on unaccounted for.
And that doesn't include the last remaining Brute and exotic beasts, the many Noble Houses, guilds and criminal alliances, and most Characters still missing as miniatures.
They were very good at releasing them slowly, untill the House books completely tripled the amount of special characters they had to include. I was surprised that the Aranthian Succession has most of its Special Characters accounted for.
Based on the Darktide video game. No word on pricing or availability yet. I'm going to make a wild assumption that it is going to be in normal retailers like Barnes & Noble or Target here in the US.
I really like that Darktide selection... Paint them in the same colors and that would be a pretty neat gang to run in the underhive against a Meat Grinder.
Those two figures are pretty boss in themselves. I just wish that these guys that they put out for Necromunda were easier to get. I go through my LGS it is not so friendly until I pull out the Credits for them.
Hive Secondus as a concept is pretty good idea, but it's going to get costly. I'm in it for a penny, and in it for a pound, though so I'll look on in interest.
I have my old figures, so running Spyer hunter teams isn't much of a chore, considering that I've run a Sawyer Family's scenario once or twice in the past...
I’m hoping for manky, wonky, radiation mutated Genestealer Hybrids. Something a little different, as befits Necromunda as a super zoomed examination of an Imperial Hive World.
Presumably at least a couple of unsolved rumour engines are from this, though it's hard to know exactly what. I can see this being splash terrain, though.
Well of the games previewed that day it's not HH or LI. I suppose it could be part of some 40k Imperial Agents line (radical Ordo Xenos?) but most likely Necromunda. Which, since it isn't a Genestealer (is it?), does kind of suggest the Necrohammer Quest notion that's gone about.
I'm a bit less convinced that's an Enslaver, it's got enough design in common with Tyranids it could be some form of Genestealer Cult wackiness, and that would fit more with what we know.
It reminds me of when everyone thought that Rogue Trader had Slaught minis, and it turned out they were just less exciting Nurgle mutants and they'd just done a slightly wider design range with them.
It doesn't contain the visual cues for Tyranids (the head plates, even if they are vestigial).
However based on the flying base stem, that model looks very small, like human head sized. I always imagined enslavers to be roughly human-sized in bulk - do they manifest in realspace using the distorted body of their original host, or am I mixing up my Rogue Trader aliens?
Patriarch wrote: It doesn't contain the visual cues for Tyranids (the head plates, even if they are vestigial).
However based on the flying base stem, that model looks very small, like human head sized. I always imagined enslavers to be roughly human-sized in bulk - do they manifest in realspace using the distorted body of their original host, or am I mixing up my Rogue Trader aliens?
They are supposed to be fairly large- 1-2m kind of size, which is roughly 12-25mm in 40k terms.
I do recall in the Deathwatch RPG suppliment 'The Nemesis Incident', written by Andy Hoare who is the head of the specialist games team, he mentioned Enslaver Behemoths, indicating they may come in different sizes (pure speculation on my behalf).
Not sure about the paint job, it looked at first to me like a head with a face hugger, not single entity if that makes sense. Like they were going to release a bunch of heads you can pop on any model for a psychicly possessed gang.
not convinced that this is anything to do with the tyranids or genestealers. i feel pretty convinced that it's an enslaver, but maybe i'll be pleasantly surprised
Where did they say that? Couldn't find anything in there posts there
Not going to dig for it, but the gist was that it was another "Incarnate" intended for the Gallet season along with the "intact" Cities of Sigmar buildings we keep seeing in the Cities of Sigmar stuff. Big ol' magma spider.
twoseventwo wrote: Presumably at least a couple of unsolved rumour engines are from this, though it's hard to know exactly what. I can see this being splash terrain, though.
I get the impression it might be a creature ontop of another thing, rather than the back section being an actual part of it. The 2 upper parts look like the other segmented limbs and seem to be wrapped around and digging in, rather than it being integrated.
Where did they say that? Couldn't find anything in there posts there
Not going to dig for it, but the gist was that it was another "Incarnate" intended for the Gallet season along with the "intact" Cities of Sigmar buildings we keep seeing in the Cities of Sigmar stuff. Big ol' magma spider.
Reading that thread, it seems you might be misremembering things? Found posts talking about it from December asking if Whitefang had gone any predictions wrong before, that spider gets mentioned as still not having shown up so some then speculate it might have been cancelled, but doesn't seem to have been Whitefang actually saying that.
Kanluwen wrote: Maybe it had something to do with something dealing with the reactions that Whitefang does?
Honestly, I've long suspected that WF asks for things to be deleted if they felt they were "talking out of turn".
Someone else did then say that it seems sometimes he mentions/reacts to things he just thinks are cool, then they just get taken as being a specific rumour.
Either way though he doesn't seem to have said that that rumour engine is cancelled, so it could still happen and i suppose could potentailly be relevant to this. They don't seem overly similar to me though being being insectoid.
I'm sure whatever they are isn't really important and not worth paying attention to. In fact I'm sure there is something more interesting the other direction.
The Spyrehunter suits look nice but I think I still prefer the Van-Saar arachni-rigs more. Regardless, nice to see some more models added to the range.
i'll finally be starting necromunda proper soon and i wanna start with escher but this is fully convincing me that van saar should be what i branch into after that
Seems we get at least one set of options for Spyrers.
One on the left is the classic bolt launcher and fistyfist. One on the right appears to have Volkite Serpenta type ranged, and proper rippy claws. Makes me want to know more, and see the other suit classes. Spesh as I’m now mildly hopeful we might get more than just four.
warboss wrote: The Spyrehunter suits look nice but I think I still prefer the Van-Saar arachni-rigs more. Regardless, nice to see some more models added to the range.
The most straightforward sequence of release is for each new Spyrer suit to come alongside each gang's new "Hive Secundus adventurer" specialists.
That would be a lot of kits, though. But I guess Delaque getting stiffed on their Ash Wastes rides indicates that GW aren't fully committed to giving every gang an upgrade for every "season."
edit: Although I admit I still don't entirely understand what this release *is*, lol. A self-contained board game? What does the "Zone Necromunda Game" stamp on the box convey? Will there be no generic multiplayer campaign style rules for this sub-setting? Or is that going to be in the additional book they tease at the end of the article?
Personally, id like them to simply make new gangs instead of bloating the ones we have. I could see the point for the ashwaste (vehicule), but does any of the houses really need new units in secondus hive?
But yeah, i should have left it at disappointing. Not weird at all in fact, as it's also less time consuming to do so
Space Hulk but on Necromunda with very doomed gangers rather than Terminators. So they've toned down the Genestealers to be very Impurestrain to give the poor saps half a chance.
Actually, with the Spyers, this is possibly more Aliens Vs Predator, the board game.
What other pairings look good? Malcadon/Delaque?
Regardless - this looks interesting! And the models look good.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Another book? Jesus, how much of a library is there for Necromunda now?
Described as softback, yet the mock-up picture clearly shows a hardback, no less.
The picture of the whole contents shows a softback book though.
Kind of disappointing that it's only a double-sided paper mat, not even carboard tiles like in the original box. Doors are going to be the only "real" terrain? Meh.
But I'll probably get it anyway.
Although, I did notice what looks like an Achilles Ridgerunner near the end of the cinematic.
edit: Although I admit I still don't entirely understand what this release *is*, lol. A self-contained board game? What does the "Zone Necromunda Game" stamp on the box convey? Will there be no generic multiplayer campaign style rules for this sub-setting? Or is that going to be in the additional book they tease at the end of the article?
Yeah, it doesn't seem entirely out of the question that this is the Necromunda version of Kill Team: Ashes of Faith. But the fact that terrain is coming and not in the box makes me lean the other way, that it's a new format of gangs consisting of elite leaders with traditional gangers as chaff, and the Genestealers being just one version of that. I wonder if there will be any types of elites other than Malstrain and Spyrers. There are plenty of 40k Imperial factions they could play that role for Palanites, after all, though I really hope they never put marines in Necromunda.
The Valrak video a few pages back that correctly-predicted Genestealer Cultists based on Hive Scum bodies also said something like "Necromunda will be the place for big impressive models for a while" so I could see that elite leader format being accurate.
I'm sure at least the malstrain Patriarch is in the way.
Oh, and lore-wise Spyrers are now Imperial House only, which I was wondering about since there are already nobles of very different sorts in N17 and some houses (notably Catallus) wouldn't seem the types to just send their kids out to mix it up with everyone else in the Underhive.
Unless I dreamt it there was very old lore suggesting Spyrer suits were Tau technology, but they've clearly not leant into that with this design.
Altruizine wrote: What does the "Zone Necromunda Game" stamp on the box convey?
I'm wondering if it is replacing "Zone Mortalis" games.
Originally there were
Zone Mortalis games. 2D games played on a board like n17 launched
Sector Mechanicus games. 3D games played on terrain representing a hive
This doesn't really make sense now as the Sector Mechanicus games mostly use 3d Zone Mortalis Terrain, and Zone Mortalis games use boards and don't use the plastic Zone Mortalis Terrain.
So I'm wondering if Zone Necromunda will come to mean 2d games, ash wastes for games outside of the hive and a new term for 3d games in the hive.
In the rules a Zone Mortalis game does not used Zone Mortalis terrain.
There are currently 2 different things in necromunda that are both called Zone Mortalis.
I just hope that scatter terrain is compatible with the ZM stuff. I really hate it when they make similar looking stuff that isn't actually compatible.
They don't need to be obnoxious about this, just put a Spyrer gang out. If they'd have put all the work they put into making mediocre Necromunda boxed sets over the last five years into fleshing out a Warhammer Quest game, we could actually have a great Warhammer Quest game and not realize we missed anything.
twoseventwo wrote: Unless I dreamt it there was very old lore suggesting Spyrer suits were Tau technology, but they've clearly not leant into that with this design.
I'm not sure if it was ever stated outright in any Necromunda content that the spyrer suits were Tau tech, just that they were of non-imperial origin, and therefore implying that they were xenotech. I believe the connection to the Tau came in the original Tau codex from 3rd (4th?) edition 40k, which contained a list of Tau words, several of which were identical (or very similar to) the names of the different spyrer suits, with the definition for each word roughly matching the style of the given suit.
In the rules a Zone Mortalis game does not used Zone Mortalis terrain.
There are currently 2 different things in necromunda that are both called Zone Mortalis.
Renaming the game type solves this issue.
Which, as you stated was a guess. The bit at the end about more ZM terrain makes me doubt that is what they are doing.
Breotan wrote: I just hope that scatter terrain is compatible with the ZM stuff. I really hate it when they make similar looking stuff that isn't actually compatible.
The scatter terrain in the boxed set? That's a reprint of the bulkheads that have been around for a few years (since the original new Necromunda boxed set iirc). They do not physically integrate with the ZM products, but they are "compatible" in the sense that you can place them on a table beside and around the ZM terrain. Y'know, the way all wargaming terrain was "compatible" for multiple decades lol.
If you mean the "ruined Zone Mortalis" terrain it will 100% be compatible with the earlier ZM products. You can see it in the backgrounds of the preview video.
My buddy and I were lamenting 10 days ago exactly how we wanted a boxed game for Necromunda, that didn't need any other rulebooks, that was a dungeon crawl/zone mortalis type game where he could play a genestealer cult and I could play some Van Saar.
It's almost like they heard us and somehow brought the product to market in ten days.....what great turnaround time, haha.
I don't think GW has ever made something I wishlisted before like that. I should probably go take a look at my monkey's paw and expect a 500 dollar price tag.
That all aside if this is not absurdly overpriced I am absolutely buying this.
Breotan wrote:I just hope that scatter terrain is compatible with the ZM stuff. I really hate it when they make similar looking stuff that isn't actually compatible.
They've been pretty good lately about all the plastic terrain fitting together. The Ash Waste habs, the new kill zone platforms, the old Necromunda walls & columns.
twoseventwo wrote: Unless I dreamt it there was very old lore suggesting Spyrer suits were Tau technology, but they've clearly not leant into that with this design.
The implication seemed to be more that the Tau might have encountered Spyrers, and that their language was influenced by them.
It would make no sense that the Tau were somehow creating archeotech fitted with technology which they didn't employ in their own suits, and spying technology which they wouldn't be able to access with their slower than light communications.
This looks fantastic to me. All of the minis look great, especially the mutated Genestealers and the Spyrers!
I don't even mind that they are including a couple of the same Hive Scum sprues, they are great for all kinds of humanoid conversions.
I'm very interested in seeing the rules, I'm assuming that it's a Necromunda-lite dungeon crawler, if so it could be a good way to introduce Necro to friends.
I'm hoping that the price will be acceptable, I'm very poor at the moment
The thing about spyrers enlisting gangs as meat shields is interreseting. At first I thought it was weird the Orrus would work alongside the VS.
I wonder if spyrers work as bountyhunters, or if you start out with the spyrer(s) and then recruit optional gangers.
Anyway, it sound much more fun than the oldmunda spyrer setup. Thinking about a gang dealing with that obnoxiuos brat sounds like a great narrative.
Do the genestealers level up? If one player is on a scripted adventure and the other is just running NPC genestealers this is DOA in my book, despite the Van Saar being amazing glowups and certainly look the part (of a far far more competent Prometheus crew)
Also does the book have rules to dungeoneer with all gangs or does the Delaque player get to wait for another 2 years for his DLC?
Breotan wrote: I just hope that scatter terrain is compatible with the ZM stuff. I really hate it when they make similar looking stuff that isn't actually compatible.
The scatter terrain in the boxed set? That's a reprint of the bulkheads that have been around for a few years (since the original new Necromunda boxed set iirc). They do not physically integrate with the ZM products, but they are "compatible" in the sense that you can place them on a table beside and around the ZM terrain. Y'know, the way all wargaming terrain was "compatible" for multiple decades lol.
If you mean the "ruined Zone Mortalis" terrain it will 100% be compatible with the earlier ZM products. You can see it in the backgrounds of the preview video.
The scatter terrain bulkheads are a slightly different scale to the full plastic ZM; they are sized to work with the original card stock ZM tiles (and possibly the original, original FW resin tiles), which is still used for the paper “play sheets” that now come in the box sets. They are not directly compatible with the plastic kits, sadly.
The Spyrer suits look great and the new box looks cool. I'm really curious about the game pitch for the box, I'd love it to be a functioning self-contained Necro dungeon-crawl campaign that we could play thru.
I think it's clear from what we know that there is indeed a self-contained two-player dungeon crawl in the box; the question is what else they're planning and if there's a campaign in the usual sense. It would seem a bit limiting for them to reintroduce Spyrers but only allow them to go up against Genestealers. But if there is a multiplayer campaign (STALKER-esque with the gangs starting off at the Dust Wall ready to go in and make their fortunes?), then what part will the Genestealers play?
Ahtman wrote: I guess some people are upset the mutated genestealers are going to be Necromunda specific type and not have 40k rules.
I can't imagine, outside of a tournament setting, that if someone mixed these in to a Tyranid army many would care that much.
my plan is to turn one of the six into a broodlord, then mix the other five in with my other purestrains. when there's already a mix of the 1st edition space hulk and the new kit, they can't be too ergregious
Well, that was a bloody good preview for fans of Necro - love everything about it - and I hope the start of exploring the other parts of Necromundan areas that have been hinted at since the Warhammer Day talks following N17! Hive Mortis (Scavvies), Sump Seas, Polar Scrap Spoils, the Great Fissure, the Navis Mortua, and the Eye of Selene. Thinking on it, each of those others could offer opportunity to introduce an apt new Spyrer/gang retinue pairing...
Flinty wrote: What does the hive mind think about the box set? Is it a FOMO one shot run, or is it likely to stick about for a bit? Budgeteer is keen to budget!
Impossible to say.
So far everything Necromunda model wise that isn't terrain has been long term. So in theory you can budget and wait to get the models on their own.
If you want the boxed set, most of those have been limited time products, even the core sets have sold out and changed steadily. So I would treat the core box as FOMO limited run. How long that limited run period is will be impossible to say until its released. It might be one and done or one with a limited restock period.
Flinty wrote: What does the hive mind think about the box set? Is it a FOMO one shot run, or is it likely to stick about for a bit? Budgeteer is keen to budget!
I'm thinking it might replace the "Hive War" boxed set and be around that thing's $170USD pricetag, if not a bit lower to match the current trend of cheap "core" set for a specialist game with a supplemental scenery add-on set. Like how Kill Team and WarCry have been going.
Flinty wrote: What does the hive mind think about the box set? Is it a FOMO one shot run, or is it likely to stick about for a bit? Budgeteer is keen to budget!
Given how poorly the Ash Wastes box sold, GW may well be under-printing this one to compensate.
Given how poorly the Ash Wastes box sold, GW may well be under-printing this one to compensate.
Because Ash Waste was overpriced and poorly marketed. The Mad Max idea is itself great (dunno about rules as i didnt play it) but there was only Orlock vehicle unit at start. Its 2 years and we dont have Delaque vehicle yet.
You could take Gencult vehicles. Sure, but there wasnt even one painted to show it (at least i didnt see one) in the rulebook. All in all it was very, very cheaply marketed.
Hopefuly this Secundus version will be much better. It could use a game system of players vs AI script.
Ash Wastes always felt like an idea that got a really great starting budget and then it got redirected mid-design. Leading to it being front-loaded with a bunch of awesome stuff; but running out of steam fast before giving each of the gangs their own vehicle.
In theory it should have had at least one multi-build core vehicle per gang and one character vehicle.
Given how poorly the Ash Wastes box sold, GW may well be under-printing this one to compensate.
Because Ash Waste was overpriced and poorly marketed. The Mad Max idea is itself great (dunno about rules as i didnt play it) but there was only Orlock vehicle unit at start. Its 2 years and we dont have Delaque vehicle yet.
You could take Gencult vehicles. Sure, but there wasnt even one painted to show it (at least i didnt see one) in the rulebook. All in all it was very, very cheaply marketed.
The other reason it was "poorly marketed" is that the word of mouth from the fans has things like "Its 2 years and we don't have Delaque vehicle yet " when they literally said that not every faction would get vehicles.
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Overread wrote: Ash Wastes always felt like an idea that got a really great starting budget and then it got redirected mid-design. Leading to it being front-loaded with a bunch of awesome stuff; but running out of steam fast before giving each of the gangs their own vehicle.
In theory it should have had at least one multi-build core vehicle per gang and one character vehicle.
Again, they front-loaded it by managing expectations and saying "not every gang would get a vehicle".
The part that failed Ash Wastes, in all likelihood, is simply that they gave us the wrong terrain to go with it. Would have been a great time to push out a new set of Realm of Battle tiles with just generic "wasteland" vibes.
Overread wrote: Ash Wastes always felt like an idea that got a really great starting budget and then it got redirected mid-design. Leading to it being front-loaded with a bunch of awesome stuff; but running out of steam fast before giving each of the gangs their own vehicle.
In theory it should have had at least one multi-build core vehicle per gang and one character vehicle.
Again, they front-loaded it by managing expectations and saying "not every gang would get a vehicle".
The part that failed Ash Wastes, in all likelihood, is simply that they gave us the wrong terrain to go with it. Would have been a great time to push out a new set of Realm of Battle tiles with just generic "wasteland" vibes.
Agreed they front loaded it with that comment, which in itself instantly means a bunch of gangs and players are "not interested" and aren't customers of it. Again it just feels to me like the budget got cut during development or the focus got shifted or whatever and they cut their losses and did with what they could. Or it was always a plan to have it split in two and there's some Ashwastes 2.0 story and system that would have added more to other factions that we never saw.
IT just doesn't make sense to me to have a game mode that's new to a game and then exclude a selection of core factions.
Kanluwen wrote:
The other reason it was "poorly marketed" is that the word of mouth from the fans has things like "Its 2 years and we don't have Delaque vehicle yet " [b]when they literally said that not every faction would get vehicles.
Kanluwen wrote:
The other reason it was "poorly marketed" is that the word of mouth from the fans has things like "Its 2 years and we don't have Delaque vehicle yet " [b]when they literally said that not every faction would get vehicles.
In which article did they say that?
I recall it being said fairly early on in the marketing that not every faction would get one. I don't think they highlighted at the start which factions would and wouldn't get one. Which to me is a huge problem because it basically turns off people from being interested.
One thing I'd like to see in Necromunda - given their travels within the Imperium and putting on performances - is the addition of Harlequins. House Catallus sounds like they might fill that role, but I honestly don't know much about the lore of Necromunda.
I think if some kind of carnival-clown gang was added to the game, I might be persuaded to purchase a copy of Secundus...
frankelee wrote: They don't need to be obnoxious about this, just put a Spyrer gang out. If they'd have put all the work they put into making mediocre Necromunda boxed sets over the last five years into fleshing out a Warhammer Quest game, we could actually have a great Warhammer Quest game and not realize we missed anything.
There is a very soft ALIENS style adventure to be had here with the Ambot rules...
Ahtman wrote: Ignoring the pricing issue, compared to the Dark Uprising and Ash Waste boxes this new one is underwhelming.
This feels much closer to the Kill Team starter set, and if priced sensibly it would be a good starting point for beginners. £75 and I'd be interested as I've always been a fan of Genestealers and the Van Saar half of the set would be ideal for use in other sci-fi games.
SamusDrake wrote: One thing I'd like to see in Necromunda - given their travels within the Imperium and putting on performances - is the addition of Harlequins. House Catallus sounds like they might fill that role, but I honestly don't know much about the lore of Necromunda.
I think if some kind of carnival-clown gang was added to the game, I might be persuaded to purchase a copy of Secundus...
There were Brat gangs in Confrontation and they're mentioned in Newcromunda too.
SamusDrake wrote: One thing I'd like to see in Necromunda - given their travels within the Imperium and putting on performances - is the addition of Harlequins. House Catallus sounds like they might fill that role, but I honestly don't know much about the lore of Necromunda.
I think if some kind of carnival-clown gang was added to the game, I might be persuaded to purchase a copy of Secundus...
There were Brat gangs in Confrontation and they're mentioned in Newcromunda too.
twoseventwo wrote: Unless I dreamt it there was very old lore suggesting Spyrer suits were Tau technology, but they've clearly not leant into that with this design.
The implication seemed to be more that the Tau might have encountered Spyrers, and that their language was influenced by them.
It would make no sense that the Tau were somehow creating archeotech fitted with technology which they didn't employ in their own suits, and spying technology which they wouldn't be able to access with their slower than light communications.
That definitely wasn't what the implication was.
The last few pages of the 3rd edition Tau codex have a Genetor investigating the Tau. Regarding their technology, he discusses how they might be using their tech to sneakily monitor the Imperium and gather information. He lists the Necromunda Spyrers as one place where Tau Tech has got into the Imperium, and says they're potentially sending information back to the Tau.
twoseventwo wrote: Unless I dreamt it there was very old lore suggesting Spyrer suits were Tau technology, but they've clearly not leant into that with this design.
The implication seemed to be more that the Tau might have encountered Spyrers, and that their language was influenced by them.
It would make no sense that the Tau were somehow creating archeotech fitted with technology which they didn't employ in their own suits, and spying technology which they wouldn't be able to access with their slower than light communications.
That definitely wasn't what the implication was.
The last few pages of the 3rd edition Tau codex have a Genetor investigating the Tau. Regarding their technology, he discusses how they might be using their tech to sneakily monitor the Imperium and gather information. He lists the Necromunda Spyrers as one place where Tau Tech has got into the Imperium, and says they're potentially sending information back to the Tau.
But aren't Spyrer suits ancient artefacts passed down over generations, and the Tau only 'recently' became a space-faring race, and certainly one that never got anywhere near to Necromunda?
twoseventwo wrote: Unless I dreamt it there was very old lore suggesting Spyrer suits were Tau technology, but they've clearly not leant into that with this design.
The implication seemed to be more that the Tau might have encountered Spyrers, and that their language was influenced by them.
It would make no sense that the Tau were somehow creating archeotech fitted with technology which they didn't employ in their own suits, and spying technology which they wouldn't be able to access with their slower than light communications.
That definitely wasn't what the implication was.
The last few pages of the 3rd edition Tau codex have a Genetor investigating the Tau. Regarding their technology, he discusses how they might be using their tech to sneakily monitor the Imperium and gather information. He lists the Necromunda Spyrers as one place where Tau Tech has got into the Imperium, and says they're potentially sending information back to the Tau.
But aren't Spyrer suits ancient artefacts passed down over generations, and the Tau only 'recently' became a space-faring race, and certainly one that never got anywhere near to Necromunda?
I don't know where the idea that they're "ancient" artifacts has came from. The classic article written by Jervis Johnson just says is "Each rig is meticulously crafted off-world,a wondrous device of half-forgotten technologies worth its own weight in credits".
"Recently" for the Tau becoming spacefaring was/is at the time of M41.999 still several thousand years ago. The Kroot joined them in M38. The Tau themselves wouldn't need to get to Necromunda either, just their tech.
No guarantee that Imperial paranoia about xenos influence is actually accurate, of course.
It took me a while to like the new Orrus but I think I got there once I realised the Studio paint scheme was probably meant to be bling. If I end up with some maybe I'll give those those metallic colour-shifting paints a try.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't know where the idea that they're "ancient" artifacts has came from. The classic article written by Jervis Johnson just says is "Each rig is meticulously crafted off-world,a wondrous device of half-forgotten technologies worth its own weight in credits".
If the technologies are 'half-forgotten', that implies ancient Dark Age tech, not stuff bought off newcomer xenos.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I don't know where the idea that they're "ancient" artifacts has came from. The classic article written by Jervis Johnson just says is "Each rig is meticulously crafted off-world,a wondrous device of half-forgotten technologies worth its own weight in credits".
If the technologies are 'half-forgotten', that implies ancient Dark Age tech, not stuff bought off newcomer xenos.
That's making the assumption that the Imperium fully understands all Tau tech, though. Some of it could very well be based on ideas that the Imperium no longer has a full grasp of. Regardless though, it's the Tau codex itself that suggests the link between them.
Looking into it more it though turns out the place that quote I gave is from is technically not entirely canon, it's written by Jervis Johnson but it was published in the Fanatic magazine so its not entirely clear how much it is. Not sure where the original lore for the Spyrers was as Lexicanum doesn't give anything beyond a link to the GW site that no longer works.
Kanluwen wrote:
The other reason it was "poorly marketed" is that the word of mouth from the fans has things like "Its 2 years and we don't have Delaque vehicle yet " [b]when they literally said that not every faction would get vehicles.
In which article did they say that?
I recall it being said fairly early on in the marketing that not every faction would get one. I don't think they highlighted at the start which factions would and wouldn't get one. Which to me is a huge problem because it basically turns off people from being interested.
I doubt they said any such thing, and my instinct says Kanluwen is making it up.
I just skimmed ~10 of the Warhammer Community articles about the Ash Wastes releases and saw no such announcement.
For me this is a must have. I skipped the last 2 large box sets due to price, and got the rules on ebay and bought the minis later.
But this is all new, I have walls for terrain (MDF) so not worried about their absence and it returns to the under hive where the game belongs.
Also finally, genestealer faction rules.
Kanluwen wrote:
The other reason it was "poorly marketed" is that the word of mouth from the fans has things like "Its 2 years and we don't have Delaque vehicle yet " [b]when they literally said that not every faction would get vehicles.
In which article did they say that?
I recall it being said fairly early on in the marketing that not every faction would get one. I don't think they highlighted at the start which factions would and wouldn't get one. Which to me is a huge problem because it basically turns off people from being interested.
I doubt they said any such thing, and my instinct says Kanluwen is making it up.
I just skimmed ~10 of the Warhammer Community articles about the Ash Wastes releases and saw no such announcement.
I don't remember that either. Even if they had said something like that, one would think it would apply to Corpse Grinders, Palanites, Venators and the other minor gangs. Not the big six.
I would never have expected Squats & Palanites getting vehicles before Delaque.
Kanluwen wrote:
The other reason it was "poorly marketed" is that the word of mouth from the fans has things like "Its 2 years and we don't have Delaque vehicle yet " [b]when they literally said that not every faction would get vehicles.
In which article did they say that?
I recall it being said fairly early on in the marketing that not every faction would get one. I don't think they highlighted at the start which factions would and wouldn't get one. Which to me is a huge problem because it basically turns off people from being interested.
I doubt they said any such thing, and my instinct says Kanluwen is making it up.
I just skimmed ~10 of the Warhammer Community articles about the Ash Wastes releases and saw no such announcement.
I don't remember that either. Even if they had said something like that, one would think it would apply to Corpse Grinders, Palanites, Venators and the other minor gangs. Not the big six.
I would never have expected Squats & Palanites getting vehicles before Delaque.
Squats got one in resin, and Palanites stole theirs from the Elysians, but point taken on Delaque. Maybe they would have stolen the Sandworm transporter from the Sisters of Silence.
I suspect Delaque are an abysmal seller. The lore and aesthetics have nothing to do with original Delaque so they piss grognards off. GW tried to force it by changing the starter mid edition to push Delaque with no luck and at this point they may just be silent squatted (existing but not actively developed). We're going on what, 2 years without a plastic release?
I got Ash Wastes, I got it mostly for the terrain and models, quite like it really.
what they needed was one or two "generic" vehicles, civilian types, like the Cargo-8, maybe something more "car" sized like a small Hilux, and then a generic bike
stuff any gang can use, alongside the more specialised stuff, and stuff that can also be terrain/mission objectives
this new set looks interesting, at a guess the naff board and lack of actual walls in the box is about trying to control the cost of the box to stop it being in "how much???" territory
even so I suspect it will be overpriced for what is in it
still have the delaque from the hive war box unassembled to do something with. the Escher from that set are excellent though
Guess GW find it hard to keep a game going where once you have a single box of figures the game is perfectly playable and the rest is entirely optional. sort of goes against the plastic crack business model
lord_blackfang wrote: Yea needed a generic buggy and generic truck (okay, we got this one, just with a bad sculpt and an unusually inefficient sprue layout) with merc crew.
Then House sprues with House crew and bespoke upgrade bits and maybe a bespoke bike.
I mean you do get the rules to make such things from other models, just seems curious for GW to provide that without such models
not to mention do them right and a reboot of Dark Future, on Necromunda if desired covering road wars on a trade route is basically a single book away
Mentlegen324 wrote: That's making the assumption that the Imperium fully understands all Tau tech, though. Some of it could very well be based on ideas that the Imperium no longer has a full grasp of. Regardless though, it's the Tau codex itself that suggests the link between them.
Why destroy anything potentially cool and/or interesting about the Spyrers by linking them to the... shudder... Tau?
Mentlegen324 wrote: That's making the assumption that the Imperium fully understands all Tau tech, though. Some of it could very well be based on ideas that the Imperium no longer has a full grasp of. Regardless though, it's the Tau codex itself that suggests the link between them.
Why destroy anything potentially cool and/or interesting about the Spyrers by linking them to the... shudder... Tau?
There's nothing remotely Tau-esque in their æsthetic. Volkite gauntlets, power claws and various other imperial cues. I wouldn't be surprised if the Orrus suits aren't actually derrived in some form from the Lorica Thallax suits. The Orrus remind me a little of of the Ursurax design:
That would really surprise me. I see people using Delaque bodies for conversions a lot online which makes me suspect they sell really well as kitbash fodder even if the gang itself is not very popular.
Spryers being linked to Tau did always seem a bit odd. I think MDGs theory in the lore thread of it in fact being Demiurg/Kin tech is much more plausible.
However, the original lore in Outlanders was written by Andy Chambers, who also later co-wrote the first Tau codex. So it isn't an accident, although obviously the Tau link is unconfirmed and based on in-universe perspectives. I think the original intent was probably Eldar tech though- the loadouts are nothing like Tau gear, but a lot are reminiscent of Eldar equipment like Yeld being very similar to Swooping Hawks and Malcodons pulling a lot from Warp Spiders (without Warp packs).
I'm very interested to see what they do with the new Spyrer lore once it is released.
Where the Orrus is classed as a Heavy Spyre Hunter, the Malcadon, Yeld, and Jakara are Light Spyrers. And while their looks have evolved, they all still function the same as they did when they first terrorised the underhive in 1996.
Cunningly tooled to fit the same sprue, these three variants share bodies but retain their signature armaments and unique methods of fighting.
The archetypes remain the same. The Malcadon is still a hyper-mobile brawler with paired claws and web incisors, though they now sport a drop rig and a grapnel launcher as standard, and may switch the claws for paired toxin whips. The Yeld is a flyer who can pick paired laser gauntlets or missile gauntlets, while the Jakara fights with a mirror shield and either a monomolecular blade or naga blade.
The kit comes with four bodies, and the armaments are interchangeable for a high degree of posability. This modularity also means that you can mix and match loadouts to create your leader, a Spyre Hunt Master skilled in numerous disciplines and, therefore, even more of a terror to dispatch…
We’ll preview some of the rules closer to release, but suffice it to say that each Spyre Hunter is pricy in credits and deadly in the field. But what they lack in numbers, they make up for in activations – of which they have four each per turn. The name of Helmawr will be whispered in fear once again…
I don't know if its the shared bodies or the paintjobs, but I'm not impressed. They look less distinct than the original metals. In fact, they just look like Van Saars.
I'm guessing the bottom one is the Autarch Hunt Master who took a Jakara weapon and a Malcadon weapon?
I like these quite a lot, the Orrus too. Was expecting them to be a while out to be fair but not complaining. I like the interchangeable bodies, should hopefully be quite a versatile kit.
While those new Spyrer models look pretty great in themselves....It's a bit disappointing how they've done them. Instead of having 3 very differently styled unique looking suits like the classic versions were, it's the same design and style, but with different weapon options. Makes them feel less like unique variants/patterns of Spyrer suit and instead there's now just a "heavy" and a "light" suit.
At first glance these are pretty cool, but the Malcadon(? upper left) pose is... uhh... wtf is happening with that model's pelvis? The torso armor is swinging left into the tiny stick leg and then the right looks like a decent kitbash from a slightly larger scale it's so much thicker.
NAVARRO wrote: Love them! Please tell me they are plastic?
They're saying it's four bodies on one sprue, so presumably plastic. But they might mean 4 bodies in one kit and it's two bodies per kit and the best use of a tactical rock to repose bodies we've seen so far.
Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced by these, but I also always hated the original Spyrer models and these are at least an improvement.
Are all 4 bodies female though? Could it not have been 2 male and 2 female? I have absolutely no issue with female minis (in fact would love more) but it just seems odd that the heavy Spyrers are male and the light Spyrers are all female....
Segersgia wrote: As to stoke the fires of the T'au origin, I just noticed that these suits are hooved. Even the Orrus is hooved.
These 'hooves' look nothing like Tau ones, though. They are clearly meant for human feet, Tau legs look completely different. If anything, they look like Admech 'hooves' (see say both kinds of Sicarians), which would neatly tie to Thallax theory.
Mentlegen324 wrote: That's making the assumption that the Imperium fully understands all Tau tech, though. Some of it could very well be based on ideas that the Imperium no longer has a full grasp of.
Pretty much yes? That was the original fluff at least, Tau tech is downright primitive compared to Imperial one, Tau just compensated by overloading weapons (even to the point of killing user, see fluff why most of their dangerous toys had 'gets hot' rule) and ignoring logistic issues by having very short supply lines compensating for drastically bigger ammo use and maintenance issues. Like Tau plasma was 3x the size of Imperial one while being also much weaker and firing half as often, or fusion gun being 4x bigger melta that had to be mounted on battlesuit instead of being light rifle and had shorter range on top of that.
At least that was the original Tau fluff, before clown writer who by his own admission never did math boosted all of their gak gradually to above Necron level (because that's totally what 'up and coming' race should have!) while also removing all the drawbacks and trade offs they had on their old gear
They appear to be gender none-descript, the chests are slightly pronounced but that heavily armoured region, the lighter frames can work with either male or female. With the Orrus they did say that the wearers are heavily mutilated to fit in the suits, so there's that as well.
The Tau link is somewhat muddied now, despite a couple of in-universe thing suggesting it.
It could be that wherever they’re coming from is a Matriarchal species, and so putting knokkaz on the design is just part of the aesthetic. Or, that they’re some other organ we stinky hoomans have no direct equivalent of. Like how Cow’s have that hand underneath them, for grabbing at the ground.
Segersgia wrote: As to stoke the fires of the T'au origin, I just noticed that these suits are hooved. Even the Orrus is hooved.
These 'hooves' look nothing like Tau ones, though. They are clearly meant for human feet, Tau legs look completely different. If anything, they look like Admech 'hooves' (see say both kinds of Sicarians), which would neatly tie to Thallax theory.
Mentlegen324 wrote: That's making the assumption that the Imperium fully understands all Tau tech, though. Some of it could very well be based on ideas that the Imperium no longer has a full grasp of.
Pretty much yes? That was the original fluff at least, Tau tech is downright primitive compared to Imperial one, Tau just compensated by overloading weapons (even to the point of killing user, see fluff why most of their dangerous toys had 'gets hot' rule) and ignoring logistic issues by having very short supply lines compensating for drastically bigger ammo use and maintenance issues. Like Tau plasma was 3x the size of Imperial one while being also much weaker and firing half as often, or fusion gun being 4x bigger melta that had to be mounted on battlesuit instead of being light rifle and had shorter range on top of that.
At least that was the original Tau fluff, before clown writer who by his own admission never did math boosted all of their gak gradually to above Necron level (because that's totally what 'up and coming' race should have!) while also removing all the drawbacks and trade offs they had on their old gear
I don't recall anywhere it was stated back in 3rd or 4th edition that the Imperium perfectly understands all Tau technology. Much of it is definitely something they're aware of as they have equivalents as pretty standard gear, but when it comes to things like shielding, AI or anti-grav where it's entering into that lost/partially lost/uncommon/They just don't use it area of Imperial tech, that's a different matter - those sort of things can still come under the definition of being "half-forgotten" technology for the Spyrer suits.
Tau are absolutely behind the Imperium in every field of technology in "present" time, the difference is they're both moving rapidly but in opposite directions.
There's lots of things the Imperium can do but chooses not to.
The Imperium's greatest threat for a very long time was internal rebellion, not external invasion.
(Eldar are dying, Orks are divided, Chaos is pent up in the Eye of Terror...)
So they under equip the IG so Marines can always swat them down. They under man the Marines so IG can overwhelm them. They limit human power armor to a small group of fanatical warrior women etc...
It's meant to be a feature of Imperial governance, not a bug.
They absolutely have the tech to make an army of powered armored humans with jump packs and servo skull grenade launchers carrying melta and plasma guns, but then who would swat down those guys when they go all heretic?
There’s a difference between seeing say, a Drone, and realising it’s AI and uses anti-grav tech, and understanding how either of those things actually work. Even to an Adept of the Mechanicus.
lord_blackfang wrote: Tau are absolutely behind the Imperium in every field of technology in "present" time, the difference is they're both moving rapidly but in opposite directions.
The Imperium having examples of similar tech that outclasses the Tau doesn't mean that some of those things can't still be described as being based around "half-forgotten" technologies, though.
Well I wanted Spyrers, and this is what happens when you have to trust in GW. One model with slightly different arm options to represent three of the families, missing the look and the point of the original. Le sigh.
On the plus side, with scanning technology now producing perfect recreations, I may just get to scale the old metal models up.
I'm not so sure the original versions were that distinct from one another.
Orrus
Spoiler:
Jakara
Spoiler:
Yeld
Spoiler:
Malcador
Spoiler:
The Orris and Jakara look pretty similar, except for number of plates. The biggest difference is probably that the Orrus is a chonky male and the Jakara a more slender female.
Yeld has a similar assassin-style bodysuit to the Orris and Jakara, just with lighter plates and the big honking wing assembly setting the model sillhouette.
The original Malcador definitely looks very different due to the texture on the bodysuit, but bears some resemblance to the Yeld bodysuit profile.
I think the new more modular approach isn't too far from the mark.
Definitely vaguely similar on the old sculpts, but I wouldn't have a hard time telling them apart personally, versus literally the same model on the new ones. The original are about as similar as different marks of Space Marine armor, and for a lot of people I'm sure GW could just sell the same body with a slightly different head for marks 1 through 10 and they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But it's lacking something for me.
Not sure about these; I think I'd have to see them in the flesh.
I get the Studio's approach to paint schemes, but these are a bunch of rich kids on safari not a military or even paramilitary unit, no way in hell should they all have the same colour armour and mine definitely won't.
lord_blackfang wrote:Yea needed a generic buggy and generic truck (okay, we got this one, just with a bad sculpt and an unusually inefficient sprue layout) with merc crew.
Then House sprues with House crew and bespoke upgrade bits and maybe a bespoke bike.
We already got the generic vehicles in The Book of the Outlands. The ridgerunner, rockgrinder, wolfquad and jackal kits from the Genestealer Cult line.
They just never made any gang specific upgrades for them.
I did use Space Marine Scout Bikers, lightly converted, for my Palanite motorcycle cops (wastelander dirtbike).
Those are some pretty spicy looking Spyrers though. I guess if they are releasing them all in one set, then they are probably all going to have rules in the main book. A "Cinderak Burning" multi-book campaign is looking less likely now.
I think with different paint jobs the Spryers will look better but as presented they come across a bit "meh". The sculpts aren't bad but the color scheme will probably be what makes them stand out.
frankelee wrote: Well I wanted Spyrers, and this is what happens when you have to trust in GW. One model with slightly different arm options to represent three of the families, missing the look and the point of the original. Le sigh.
On the plus side, with scanning technology now producing perfect recreations, I may just get to scale the old metal models up.
Well, I never liked the original models. I thought they looked goofy and/or stupid, even for Necromunda stuff. So I never bought any.
Ahtman wrote: I think with different paint jobs the Spryers will look better but as presented they come across a bit "meh". The sculpts aren't bad but the color scheme will probably be what makes them stand out.
They are basically the same paint job as the Orrus from the big box. You're right though, a fancy schmancy paint job could do a lot to make them more individualistic.
Speaking of the big box, any bets on how long it will take the separate gangs to be released in individual boxes?
Ahtman wrote: I think with different paint jobs the Spryers will look better but as presented they come across a bit "meh". The sculpts aren't bad but the color scheme will probably be what makes them stand out.
They are basically the same paint job as the Orrus from the big box.
(Eldar are dying, Orks are divided, Chaos is pent up in the Eye of Terror...)
We didn't start the fiyah
...
Anyway. I'm not a fan of the shared bodies. On the bright side, it will be much cheaper to get a full collection this way (until they add a bunch of new suits I guess).
I don't know what this bodes for the rest of the sub-setting, since I thought they'd string out the spyrer suits alongside new gang units.
frankelee wrote: Well I wanted Spyrers, and this is what happens when you have to trust in GW. One model with slightly different arm options to represent three of the families, missing the look and the point of the original. Le sigh.
On the plus side, with scanning technology now producing perfect recreations, I may just get to scale the old metal models up.
Well, I never liked the original models. I thought they looked goofy and/or stupid, even for Necromunda stuff. So I never bought any.
Totally agreed. There are some truly great 90s Necromunda minis (the Eschers, the Orlocks) but I never thought those came close to living up to the concept.
Really digging these new Necromunda models! Despite having to feel more excitement for the upcoming Legions Imperialis stuff, I can't feel but slightly let down by those (it's just smaller 40k models, what about the weird funky stuff?). Necromunda on the other hand is going full awesome with these new releases. Haven't been excited about GW releases in a while, but these are really cool!
frankelee wrote: Well I wanted Spyrers, and this is what happens when you have to trust in GW. One model with slightly different arm options to represent three of the families, missing the look and the point of the original. Le sigh.
On the plus side, with scanning technology now producing perfect recreations, I may just get to scale the old metal models up.
Well, I never liked the original models. I thought they looked goofy and/or stupid, even for Necromunda stuff. So I never bought any.
They are kind of derpy, but it was GW in 1996, so there was a lot of derp at that time. I think if they had just been a little more generous with the kit and done one male, one female, everybody gets their own specific Ironman arc reactor chest piece, three very distinct head options, different foot options, and different elbow-down weapon arm options, along with the backpack options, all done in a specifically different style, it would work. It'd be really cool if somebody digitally sculpted new ones to match the old ones, but well, Necromunda just isn't popular enough to get much traction with sculptors though.
The big digital sculptors need lots of fodder to keep them going though. I mean Papsikels ended up doing sexy pin up femaliens… I can see a decent set of alt-spyrers coming out in the next few days on MMF.
frankelee wrote: Well I wanted Spyrers, and this is what happens when you have to trust in GW. One model with slightly different arm options to represent three of the families, missing the look and the point of the original. Le sigh.
On the plus side, with scanning technology now producing perfect recreations, I may just get to scale the old metal models up.
Well, I never liked the original models. I thought they looked goofy and/or stupid, even for Necromunda stuff. So I never bought any.
They are kind of derpy, but it was GW in 1996, so there was a lot of derp at that time. I think if they had just been a little more generous with the kit and done one male, one female, everybody gets their own specific Ironman arc reactor chest piece, three very distinct head options, different foot options, and different elbow-down weapon arm options, along with the backpack options, all done in a specifically different style, it would work. It'd be really cool if somebody digitally sculpted new ones to match the old ones, but well, Necromunda just isn't popular enough to get much traction with sculptors though.
Ahtman wrote: I think with different paint jobs the Spryers will look better but as presented they come across a bit "meh". The sculpts aren't bad but the color scheme will probably be what makes them stand out.
Definitely meh.
The power fantasy gang turned into Interchangeable Emmas.
There's also something about the waist and thighs on all of them (especially the Orrus) that just doesn't sit right.
I like the look of the new Spryers gang a great deal, and don't mind the interchangeable parts....though I do think maybe separate chest pieces would be cool. One thing I don't like is the studio painting them to look like one homogeneous, unified group. They are crazy nobles.....they need crazy individualized paint schemes.
I am hoping they have a spider like head with a bunch of eyes and "mandibles" kind of like the concept of the Malcadon mini way back when.
On the plus side, these new Spyrers are disappointing enough designs that the fact they're out of scale with my collection isn't a problem...
Given the rest of the Necromunda range, I had been expecting new Spyrers to be fantastic. Was really not expecting a bunch of practically identical models. And the fact they've leant into that by also painting them all the same is just a weird choice.
Steve May, the sculptor involved in the Spyrer project (stevepaintsandsculpts), posted his opinion on the Orrus,
"Getting to redesign the old Orrus Spyrer was a great project. They are such an iconic part of the original Necromunda, despite the models being s bit goofy.
Looking forward to seeing better photos of these, because I'm sure the paint job is better in real life. I envisioned them being more knightly, painted in house coloures (quartered or halved in bold garish block coloures). I feel this makes them look too much like Van Saar personally.
Design wise, these were a very long process. The original concepts were really not appropriate for Necromunda and couldn't practically be made into physical miniatures, so I had to design them completely from scratch.
These were one of my 'trainee' projects, and I'm very happy with how they turned out. There are a lot of options in the kit (some of which I have a feeling that may have been removed after I left, but we will see) so I hope they show them off properly. The backs of the models look very different to the fronts!
The caryatid was an idea I had to put in the kit because there was a big space on the frame. The idea for him was that he was pointing with his wing, which you can sort of see in the pic.
Disappointed he doesn't have the swirls painted on him, because I agreed not to sculpt them on, so they could be a paint effect."
I read somewhere that the torsos were changed. Also agree on the colour scheme, it ties them in a bit with the Van Saar (maybe they also worked on the suits? Not sure of the backstory) but honestly I think that they should've gone another way.
Interesting tidbit on the "alien" design of the armour, especially as it doesn't really tie in with any of the known races.
The real interesting tidbit is the sculptor churn. This artist's trainee project is barely just coming out and they've already left GW. Must be an absolute gakshow in there.
lord_blackfang wrote: The real interesting tidbit is the sculptor churn. This artist's trainee project is barely just coming out and they've already left GW. Must be an absolute gakshow in there.
That doesn't really follow. This is only one case.
Also GW seems to do a lot of short term contracts now, so whilst this might be their Training project in terms of learning how to work with GW; how to sculpt in their style; how to work for plastic casting in the design and so forth; it doesn't mean the sculptor had a long term contract. It might just be a short term one that GW will reach out too or offer work up too. Since GW gets to use the training model anyway GW doesn't lose out on training someone up even for part time work.
Overread wrote: Also GW seems to do a lot of short term contracts now, so whilst this might be their Training project in terms of learning how to work with GW; how to sculpt in their style; how to work for plastic casting in the design and so forth; it doesn't mean the sculptor had a long term contract. It might just be a short term one that GW will reach out too or offer work up too. Since GW gets to use the training model anyway GW doesn't lose out on training someone up even for part time work.
Not aware of any evidence of the use of short-term contracts for miniature designers and it doesn't seem to be the case in this instance either, since Steve May has described working on a significant number of models. I think the fact it was a "trainee" model just indicates he made it a while ago before deciding to leave.
I was reading it as a trainee for specialist games? Since he worked on a whole lot of models and was tutored by the Perry twins some years ago while working for GW (this from his own insta). But doing regular sculpting then (he talks about the 3d ups), or maybe it spent a lot of time in the archives since he mentioned that other people worked on it.
They probably keep the senior designers like Jes, while others come and go after a few years. I think the guy who did many of their cool buildings (Ray Dranfeld) is one such case (could be wrong on this one)
GW have always had a certain amount of sculptor churn, because their training is good but their pay is rubbish. There are a lot of ex-GW sculptors in the industry.
insaniak wrote: On the plus side, these new Spyrers are disappointing enough designs that the fact they're out of scale with my collection isn't a problem...
Given the rest of the Necromunda range, I had been expecting new Spyrers to be fantastic. Was really not expecting a bunch of practically identical models. And the fact they've leant into that by also painting them all the same is just a weird choice.
Yeah I wondered about that myself.
I like it for armies, but this is a small gang of elite individuals. Identical paintjobs are weird from a setting perspective.
But for a promo shot perspective, its asinine. It makes the kit look even more limited (and two of them are already on the same tactical rock, not that tactical rocks even make sense with the necromunda bases, and a third is also roughly in the same pose). No idea what thought process went into trying to sell these minis with this photograph.
Voss wrote: I like it for armies, but this is a small gang of elite individuals. Identical paintjobs are weird from a setting perspective.
But for a promo shot perspective, its asinine. It makes the kit look even more limited (and two of them are already on the same tactical rock, not that tactical rocks even make sense with the necromunda bases, and a third is also roughly in the same pose). No idea what thought process went into trying to sell these minis with this photograph.
Yeah, with the really busy armor styling, the coloring makes them visually indistinct. The green is lovely, but at a glance they just all look the same. If they had gone with, say, the green for the Orrus, dark grey for the Yeld, a deep red for the Malcadon and a blue for the Jakara, the fact that all of the armor is the same wouldn't have been as apparent.
Even better would have been to paint them up like crusading knights in fancy, individual schemes using house colors, as the sculptor said he expected.
lord_blackfang wrote: The real interesting tidbit is the sculptor churn. This artist's trainee project is barely just coming out and they've already left GW. Must be an absolute gakshow in there.
That doesn't really follow. This is only one case.
It is not, there's been quite a few examples of it. The Tomb king bone dragon is another example.
Voss wrote: I like it for armies, but this is a small gang of elite individuals. Identical paintjobs are weird from a setting perspective.
But for a promo shot perspective, its asinine. It makes the kit look even more limited (and two of them are already on the same tactical rock, not that tactical rocks even make sense with the necromunda bases, and a third is also roughly in the same pose). No idea what thought process went into trying to sell these minis with this photograph.
Yeah, with the really busy armor styling, the coloring makes them visually indistinct. The green is lovely, but at a glance they just all look the same. If they had gone with, say, the green for the Orrus, dark grey for the Yeld, a deep red for the Malcadon and a blue for the Jakara, the fact that all of the armor is the same wouldn't have been as apparent.
Even better would have been to paint them up like crusading knights in fancy, individual schemes using house colors, as the sculptor said he expected.
Yeah, I think that a different paint scheme would have helped a lot. I think the sculptor was right on the money and that these would look cool in really garish personal livery.
Yeah gotta say all the first comments saying it all looks too samey, my first thought was well I think they all looked close ish back then, it was the colours that really differentiated them from looking the same.
The originals were absolutely not visually similar. The Malcadon had his ribbed suit, whole the Yeld was more of a synthskin look. The Orrus and Jakara were similar in that they both had armour plates over a bodysuit, but the the Orrus was bulkier and the styling of the armour on both was different.
Vs these, where it's all the same armour just with different accessories. Aside from being harder to identify, it also makes them look mass produced, rather than individual, custom crafted suits.
lord_blackfang wrote: The real interesting tidbit is the sculptor churn. This artist's trainee project is barely just coming out and they've already left GW. Must be an absolute gakshow in there.
That doesn't really follow. This is only one case.
It is not, there's been quite a few examples of it. The Tomb king bone dragon is another example.
It's not another example, it's the same guy.
The very first sculpt he made for Forge World was Vunder Gorvos, who was released on 17th September 2022
The first release he made for Forge World was Klovis the Redeemer and Deacon Malkev who came out on 13th November 2021
Per his Instagram, his final day working for Forge World/Specialist Games/Games Workshop was 20th April 2023
The final project he worked on before his departure was the plastic Solar Auxilia Veletaris
The only thing I can see that he has said regarding his departure is that it wasn't the right environment for him, and every subsequent release he worked on has either been partially resculpted, or presented to the public without regard to his intent (Hibou Khan is much busier with more detail that he submitted, paintjobs that misunderstand what he was going for, his plastic designs have a lot of options stripped off of them and are assembled in suboptimal ways), so the only thing I can read into there is that he prefers to actually have proper control over what he creates and what happens with them (he doesn't believe the Bone Dragon is aesthetically or thematically suitable for Tomb Kings, and the designs he submitted as per his obligation to work on it ended up being covered up anyway by the contributions of other sculptors).
The peek behind the curtain of designs being submitted and spending several years in limbo before seeing a release is interesting, but a part of me feels we've always known the sculpting to released product pipeline was never First In, First Out (or at least hasn't been for decades)
Think I'll just grab some assassins as conversion bases for my Spyrers. I might keep the Orrus as is, the others aren't really setting the world on fire for me.
skeleton wrote: there where two more a patriarch and a matriarch. one had some mechanical tentacles
and the other wielded a chainblade deathreaper thingy.
I have a feeling we'll see them as named resin releases.
Given my previously stated opinions on Newcromunda it feels like kicking someone while they're down, but count me unimpressed. The Spryers definitely feel like cool figures that aren't Spryers.
And as everyone has said, they really don't feel like unique,specialized, bespoke suits crafted for the nobility. They just look like another gang, possibly something advanced from Van Saar.
With the ever increasing creep in overdesigned gang gear, I was wondering how they were going to take it to the next level to represent heirloom archeotech predator suits. Incredibly underwhelmed with the answer.
Thinking about this some more, if they were going to go the identical suit route, it would have been better if they went with more options... Select a base suit of either the agile or tank type, and give them a broad mix-and-match armory, with the original archetypes becoming just a fluff name for those particular loadouts.
insaniak wrote: Thinking about this some more, if they were going to go the identical suit route, it would have been better if they went with more options... Select a base suit of either the agile or tank type, and give them a broad mix-and-match armory, with the original archetypes becoming just a fluff name for those particular loadouts.
I think that would have been a pretty good idea myself. Maybe add in a few new weapon options/wargear options. That way you would have more flexibility when building your own spoiled rich kid death machine.
It kind of dawned on me too how happy I am with the choice of a plastic kit, not because it is perfect by any means (I would have preferred a few more bits to make the archetypes a bit more unique- but overall I'm pretty fond of it), but because if they didn't do a plastic box they would likely have done all of the archetypes as a single resin miniature that is 40 bucks a piece with no options and would be much more of a pain to convert/kitbash.
insaniak wrote: I wouldn't expect so. The reverse 'knee' is the ankle joint, and their feet are in the lower 'leg' section - they're walking on tip-toes.
They stated in the preview video that they do, in fact, have their lower legs lopped off to fit in the armor, as well as some modifications to their joints and spine, as it's designed for xenos and not humans.
That feels like an unnecessary choice when the models have such human leg proportions, and a fairly massive departure from the 'joyriding spoilt rich kid' aesthetic of the original Spyrers.
One nice thing about being a spoiled rich kid in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future is that having your limbs lopped off so you can wear Xenos armor is basically an outpatient procedure.
Even better, you can get vat-grown clone legs when you're done.
Bob Lorgar wrote: So, is it a requirement for you to get your feet cut off to be a Spyrer?
I mentioned earlier, but I reckon the Orrus suit is based on the Lorica Thallax armour with the difference being that they aren't completely butchered but have to surrender a good chunk of their bodies to be implanted into the suit:
And the Spyers always had a variety of bionic doohickies grafted in for while they were hunting.
Add to which, showing that you've been on a Spyre Hunt by the fact that half of your lower body is augmetic is going to be a massive status symbol. Everybody they know is rich. Everybody they know can buy whatever, or whoever, they want. Not everybody they know can say that they punched a Genestealer to death.
I liked to imagine that after having their chest ripped out they would be swiftly teleported back tot he barge and a scene from a medical show with gurneys being rushed through the ship being played out.
insaniak wrote: I wouldn't expect so. The reverse 'knee' is the ankle joint, and their feet are in the lower 'leg' section - they're walking on tip-toes.
They stated in the preview video that they do, in fact, have their lower legs lopped off to fit in the armor, as well as some modifications to their joints and spine, as it's designed for xenos and not humans.
Might apply to all of them, but in the preview they were talking specifically about the Orrus, as it was the only one shown at the time.
insaniak wrote: That feels like an unnecessary choice when the models have such human leg proportions, and a fairly massive departure from the 'joyriding spoilt rich kid' aesthetic of the original Spyrers.
Yeah, seems like its grimdark for the sake of being grimdark
One of the other things that intrigues me, is the rumors of Space Hulk coming back with larger squares to fit the new larger terminators. If they go with a two-inch version, that would make it compatible with the current floor tile boards, which would make it a completely different type of game. The new Necromunda talks about more tunnel fighting, which would make for an interesting board and a lot of bottlenecks going from a single wide corridor to a large room, mixing and matching the two board types.
insaniak wrote: That feels like an unnecessary choice when the models have such human leg proportions, and a fairly massive departure from the 'joyriding spoilt rich kid' aesthetic of the original Spyrers.
Yeah, seems like its grimdark for the sake of being grimdark
It's also a very Cyberpunk thing, in an Edgerunners/Alita/GITS sense, tho? Which is obvi a departure from generic 40K but also fits where GW is going with the Van Saar redesign
Bionics are clearly fashionable in much of 40k society, and body modification is rife. This seems pretty small potatoes and entirely in keeping with the setting.
Yeah, that. Remember Inquisitor Bojack Horseman from the Eisenhorn series? At the top end of the Imperium, people are pretty into transhumansim, between the life extending drugs (circa 500 years potential), the assorted biomods (tails and animal ears are common), and the ease of obtaining not merely functional but enhancing bionics.
Edit: oh, forgot another fun correlating fact from the canon; retired Custodes (eight foot tall slabs of muscle) can take off their armour and blend into Imperial society to the point they can run spy rings without being instantly identified as Custodes.
Haighus wrote: Bionics are clearly fashionable in much of 40k society, and body modification is rife. This seems pretty small potatoes and entirely in keeping with the setting.
Yes, and no. I don't have an issue with it as a concept, because as you say, it's certainly fitting for the setting. My issue with it was really just that the design of the armour doesn't seem to actually make it necessary. If that's the angle they wanted to go with, the legs should have been more clearly non-human. Aside from the shins being a little skinny, the current design looks like human legs would fit in there just fine.
Haighus wrote: Bionics are clearly fashionable in much of 40k society, and body modification is rife. This seems pretty small potatoes and entirely in keeping with the setting.
Yes, and no. I don't have an issue with it as a concept, because as you say, it's certainly fitting for the setting. My issue with it was really just that the design of the armour doesn't seem to actually make it necessary. If that's the angle they wanted to go with, the legs should have been more clearly non-human. Aside from the shins being a little skinny, the current design looks like human legs would fit in there just fine.
It could be more for the extra joint than the angle, might give some extra dexterity.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It suits the, erm, suits, being of off-world and likely Xenos origin.
No it doesn't. In fact it makes zero sense with two supposed (according to fanon) producers of the suit because Tau and Votann both think Imperial body mods are barbaric and neither race practices any body enhancement unless necessary, never mind mutilating your body willingly to fit the suit (unlike AdMech who did that even in Mechanicum days). Both would think it's pants on head dumb, you fit the suit to the body not vice versa...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It suits the, erm, suits, being of off-world and likely Xenos origin.
No it doesn't. In fact it makes zero sense with two supposed (according to fanon) producers of the suit because Tau and Votann both think Imperial body mods are barbaric and neither race practices any body enhancement unless necessary, never mind mutilating your body willingly to fit the suit (unlike AdMech who did that even in Mechanicum days). Both would think it's pants on head dumb, you fit the suit to the body not vice versa...
Sure, but the suits aren't built for human bodies, they're built for xenos to wear.
The suit exterior aesthetics aren't so important IMO- they are playthings for rich nobles and get adapted by Van Saar. The exterior is crafted to suit human taste on Necromunda.
That would get him a visit from the Mechanicus to take it from them.
I rather like the idea of the suits having an "Unknown" origin... As to Necromunda, itself, it is quickly becoming my scratch to the gaming Itch I've needed for a long time.
The Secondus game is a pretty cool idea, and starting them out in the tunnels and ground floor is a really neat way to get it going again in the next hive. I'll be getting that new Kill Team terrain selection to start building up early.
I finally have the reason I needed to start downsizing a bunch of Nu-40k stuff that will never see the light of day.
His Master's Voice wrote: Have GW confirmed who made the suits? They looks neither Votann, nor Tau in appearance.
Is it even clear how Tau got their quick technological progress? It could be Tau-ish tech, but developed by a minor species in their empire, or have an even older origin.
His Master's Voice wrote: Have GW confirmed who made the suits? They looks neither Votann, nor Tau in appearance.
Is it even clear how Tau got their quick technological progress? It could be Tau-ish tech, but developed by a minor species in their empire, or have an even older origin.
Very rusty, but their “rapid” progress was over a couple of millennia, having gone from Neolithic to Space Faring. The Ethereals revealed themselves and united the species. And they found a ruined start ship on a moon, giving them a boost.
Now, in 40K terms that does seem quick. But look at our real world progress over the past 250 years. We’ve gone from sailing ships and muskets to space flight. And that’s without particularly unified peoples, and in the face of many, many wars.
Strip out stuff like the Dark Ages, so we never lost the knowledge and technology of the Romans and Egyptians? Where might we be now? Because I’m fairly sure the Greeks had figured out the principal of steam engines, but didn’t have the right materials to make it practical for industry. That “just” takes the discovery of steel to make real.
So, a fully unified species can progress really rapidly in 2,000 years.
His Master's Voice wrote: Have GW confirmed who made the suits? They looks neither Votann, nor Tau in appearance.
Is it even clear how Tau got their quick technological progress? It could be Tau-ish tech, but developed by a minor species in their empire, or have an even older origin.
I recall there's a good few hints around the lore and guesswork that Eldar have some hand in it somewhere. That doesn't mean they have a big hand and it could just be one sect/group not the whole race doing it.
It could also be one of those "Imperial scientist guesses that's what happened" approach and thus is possibly entirely wrong based in the character being poorly informed in-setting.
Tau advance is very very swift and considering how slow the Imperium operates, we have to assume that the Tau are abnormal in how quickly they advanced, otherwise the Imperium would have a lot more viable advanced Xenos species running around.
If the spyrer suits are Tau technology, if feels strange they focus on close combat and agility. Perhaps they could be some prototype superhero suits the physically awkward Tau nerds liked to imagine themself in.
His Master's Voice wrote: Have GW confirmed who made the suits? They looks neither Votann, nor Tau in appearance.
Is it even clear how Tau got their quick technological progress? It could be Tau-ish tech, but developed by a minor species in their empire, or have an even older origin.
I recall there's a good few hints around the lore and guesswork that Eldar have some hand in it somewhere. That doesn't mean they have a big hand and it could just be one sect/group not the whole race doing it.
It could also be one of those "Imperial scientist guesses that's what happened" approach and thus is possibly entirely wrong based in the character being poorly informed in-setting.
Tau advance is very very swift and considering how slow the Imperium operates, we have to assume that the Tau are abnormal in how quickly they advanced, otherwise the Imperium would have a lot more viable advanced Xenos species running around.
The Imperium notes Tau development is uncommonly rapid and speculates about outside interference. The Tau origin story about Ethereals (presumably from their own legends) talks about seeing lights in the sky and mysterious glimpses of half-seen figures prior to the sudden arrival of the Ethereals. Xenology (from the perspective of an Inquisitor being fed information by a Necron scouting force) points out the similarity between Ethereal forehead glands and the scent glands of Q'orl queens, speculating that the Ethereals use pheromones to control their subjects (Tau have an exceptional sense of smell). The captured Ethereal has feet not hooves though, which is weird. The Q'orl hate Eldar for stealing a Queen, and Xenology also has a recovered fragment from the Eldar talking of Tau as a bulwark against Chaos due to their lack of overt warp souls.
So nothing is confirmed, but the most likely course of events is that an Eldar faction engineered Ethereals based on Q'orl glands to control and unify the Tau as an anti-Chaos weapon.
Edit: oh, forgot another fun correlating fact from the canon; retired Custodes (eight foot tall slabs of muscle) can take off their armour and blend into Imperial society to the point they can run spy rings without being instantly identified as Custodes.
I hate that bit of fluff with so much hate.
At the very least there should be a bit about them needed to take polymopheme or spend some time in vats beings resculpted.
There was another one, The Last Church, where the Emperor passes for human through a psychic illusion but the priest can hear the floor groan with each step he takes.
I always figured the 8' version was the illusion...
Thing is when you consider how many regular citizens in certain environments can be gene boosted - a big person just doesn't mean "Marine". Look at the goliaths in Necromunda.
Granted that's not going to be universal and some Imperial societies might be might shorter on average; but with abhumans, gene modifications, bionics and more going on chances are a tall person can blend in pretty easily into Imperial society.
Edit: oh, forgot another fun correlating fact from the canon; retired Custodes (eight foot tall slabs of muscle) can take off their armour and blend into Imperial society to the point they can run spy rings without being instantly identified as Custodes.
I hate that bit of fluff with so much hate.
At the very least there should be a bit about them needed to take polymopheme or spend some time in vats beings resculpted.
There was another one, The Last Church, where the Emperor passes for human through a psychic illusion but the priest can hear the floor groan with each step he takes.
I always figured the 8' version was the illusion...
On The Emperor? If he can fool your eyes, he can fool your ears.
Edit: oh, forgot another fun correlating fact from the canon; retired Custodes (eight foot tall slabs of muscle) can take off their armour and blend into Imperial society to the point they can run spy rings without being instantly identified as Custodes.
I hate that bit of fluff with so much hate.
At the very least there should be a bit about them needed to take polymopheme or spend some time in vats beings resculpted.
There was another one, The Last Church, where the Emperor passes for human through a psychic illusion but the priest can hear the floor groan with each step he takes.
I always figured the 8' version was the illusion...
On The Emperor? If he can fool your eyes, he can fool your ears.
Yeah, I figure that was psychosomatic noise from the priest being slightly warp-sensitive. Kinda like that blind woman who could suddenly “see” in the presence of primarchs because their warplight.
As for the Custodes infiltrators; pretty much what Overrread said: with the right environment the locals could easily mistake them for some other kind of augment and even if speaking High Gothic with a Terran accent should be anomalous I’m sure they can learn the local dialect in a few hours no problem. And who would expect that bulk hauler synth-drone owned by the local Imperial Express depot was secretly the mysterious cloaked figure running the spy ring out of the spare room in the back of the warehouse?
My first thought on seeing the spyrers was to wonder if I could use one of the Blackstone fortress spindle drones as a head for them. Maybe that's where they come from? The designs seem to be closer to that than tau Or necrom. Or some other ancient tech, I'm sure the book will provide some lore on them.
James12345 wrote: My first thought on seeing the spyrers was to wonder if I could use one of the Blackstone fortress spindle drones as a head for them. Maybe that's where they come from? The designs seem to be closer to that than tau Or necrom. Or some other ancient tech, I'm sure the book will provide some lore on them.
I'm sure that the book will say "Redacted" or "Unknown Origin" or something of that nature.
The Imperium notes Tau development is uncommonly rapid and speculates about outside interference. The Tau origin story about Ethereals (presumably from their own legends) talks about seeing lights in the sky and mysterious glimpses of half-seen figures prior to the sudden arrival of the Ethereals. Xenology (from the perspective of an Inquisitor being fed information by a Necron scouting force) points out the similarity between Ethereal forehead glands and the scent glands of Q'orl queens, speculating that the Ethereals use pheromones to control their subjects (Tau have an exceptional sense of smell). The captured Ethereal has feet not hooves though, which is weird. The Q'orl hate Eldar for stealing a Queen, and Xenology also has a recovered fragment from the Eldar talking of Tau as a bulwark against Chaos due to their lack of overt warp souls.
So nothing is confirmed, but the most likely course of events is that an Eldar faction engineered Ethereals based on Q'orl glands to control and unify the Tau as an anti-Chaos weapon.
There's also a mention about how the crystal in the forehead of the Ethereal is structurally similar to Eldar crystals.
Overread wrote: Now you too can start to re-create Alien 2! All you need are a bunch of hormagaunts; a tervigon; a few corridors; guns and some scared gaurdsmen!
Oh, that's going to be a problem. I'm fresh out of scared Guardsmen. The Commissar shot the last one I had left.
It very much looks like GW went borrowing with Hive Secundus again. We're getting new Genestealers and the Patriarch is the appropriate stand-in for the queen. We now have guns and already had walls.
Kind of a shame GW picked the anime guys as explorers for the new box, but I guess you have to change the odd thing if you're going to copy someone's homework.
Hmm, I'm guessing they're going to be a bit small, but depending on how big they are, they could make good Tarantula Sentry guns in 30k. With a little bit of conversion work, of course.
Overread wrote: Now you too can start to re-create Alien 2! All you need are a bunch of hormagaunts; a tervigon; a few corridors; guns and some scared gaurdsmen!
Oh, that's going to be a problem. I'm fresh out of scared Guardsmen. The Commissar shot the last one I had left.
It very much looks like GW went borrowing with Hive Secundus again. We're getting new Genestealers and the Patriarch is the appropriate stand-in for the queen. We now have guns and already had walls.
Kind of a shame GW picked the anime guys as explorers for the new box, but I guess you have to change the odd thing if you're going to copy someone's homework.
But to be honest, I feel like treating the "gang" as one whole side of explorers is a bit...simplistic? The Tek Hunters, from what it reads as, are more filling the role of hunting party support for the Orrus.
Overread wrote: Now you too can start to re-create Alien 2! All you need are a bunch of hormagaunts; a tervigon; a few corridors; guns and some scared gaurdsmen!
Oh, that's going to be a problem. I'm fresh out of scared Guardsmen. The Commissar shot the last one I had left.
It very much looks like GW went borrowing with Hive Secundus again. We're getting new Genestealers and the Patriarch is the appropriate stand-in for the queen. We now have guns and already had walls.
Kind of a shame GW picked the anime guys as explorers for the new box, but I guess you have to change the odd thing if you're going to copy someone's homework.
Indeed, they could have gone for Necromunda Spiders Guardsmen, or Jagerkin for this one
I missed it on the first read-through, but it says the rules for the sentry guns will be in an upcoming expansion book. So presumably not the Hive Secundus rulebook(?). Hopefully we see it sometime this year. I am really excited to learn what happened to Haera and what Necromunda looks like under Ozostium's rule.
Wonder if the Grenade Launchers will be limited to Frag and Krak? Whilst not necessarily a good idea, a sentry lobbing smoke grenades could be a challenge. Stick your bonce out, lose LoS. Do it in the wrong order, and lose even more.
That was the original fluff at least, Tau tech is downright primitive compared to Imperial one, Tau just compensated by overloading weapons (even to the point of killing user, see fluff why most of their dangerous toys had 'gets hot' rule) and ignoring logistic issues by having very short supply lines compensating for drastically bigger ammo use and maintenance issues. Like Tau plasma was 3x the size of Imperial one while being also much weaker and firing half as often, or fusion gun being 4x bigger melta that had to be mounted on battlesuit instead of being light rifle and had shorter range on top of that.
writer who by his own admission never did math boosted all of their gak gradually to above Necron level (because that's totally what 'up and coming' race should have!) while also removing all the drawbacks and trade offs they had on their old gear 
