Glad I wasn't the only one to think of the Brute Chopper from Halo when I saw that Goliath vehicle. Actually with that rear track it looks almost like a Chopper mated with a snowmobile or something.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not a fan of the bike, it's supposed to look fast but the track in the back does not say 'speed' to me.

For me, the design (with front tire) is almost perfect.
A snow mobile converted to fit brutal fighting in ash desert conditions

As for acceleration/speed with a tracked vehicle:
”How fast can a snowmobile accelerate? The acceleration of stock snowmobiles is about 4-6 seconds in a 0-60 run. Special drag snowmobiles accelerate much faster of course. The world record for 0-60mph is around 1 second!”

 Segersgia wrote:

TGG wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
Bike is clearly a stealth ork release

Everything's a stealth ork release

Speaking of Orks. With focus being put on the Ash Wastes, do y'all see an Ork gang making an appearance in the future?

I know *my orks* will be making an appearance in the future of the Ash Wastes... To many excellent vehicles not to...

The Gorvos Crime Syndicate Enter the Underhive With Inimitable Style… and Lots of Gunk Bombs

Nice enough models, glad to see some of the earlier books are still getting plenty of attention. The paintjob on Vunder's face could have been a bit more photogenic but you can't have everything.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not a fan of the bike, it's supposed to look fast but the track in the back does not say 'speed' to me. A wheel would have been so much better.

Considering many snow mobiles can achieve speeds of 100 mph, you may be right... j/k

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
And if there was any doubt, we're now definitely looking at a year or more of bike and buggies, whatever they can squeeze on a half sprue.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I mean the alternative is discarding all the gangs for a new location or just packing up their bags and calling it a day.

And when that day comes I wonder if they will reform the current Necromunda into a proper Inquisitor-like game?

Super unlikely on the second bit.

But, one can use the new vehicle rules and Venator Gangs to do a sort of Guardians of the Galaxy / Ravagers type game.

The Gorvos siblings are coming soon.

Chopstick wrote:
A combined box would be awkward for delauque since the brain fish need 2 sprues to make. So a 4 sprues box :

I just wish the upgrade sprue was bigger so we can have all the missing resin weapn and left/right version of all weapons. maybe a champ/female ganger/house hired guns kit

No he was wanting a new Gang sprue (as in a third) of basic gangers is how I read it.

Either way, I don’t see thathappening as that’s a cost of 6 new gangs minimum all getting a new/unnecessary sprue (particularly in their eyes/costings).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not a fan of the bike, it's supposed to look fast but the track in the back does not say 'speed' to me. A wheel would have been so much better.

Considering many snow mobiles can achieve speeds of 100 mph, you may be right... j/k

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
And if there was any doubt, we're now definitely looking at a year or more of bike and buggies, whatever they can squeeze on a half sprue.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I mean the alternative is discarding all the gangs for a new location or just packing up their bags and calling it a day.

And when that day comes I wonder if they will reform the current Necromunda into a proper Inquisitor-like game?

But would we really say a year or more? Second of 6 already revealed.
I could see that length (maybe a bit more then yeah) if everyone is getting a second vehicle.

Unless GW unexpectedly changes their approach, a year or more is correct. There are five house vehicle releases left, one of which we've seen. Coming, provided there are no significant delays, in August, November, February, May and August again. Which is thirteen months from this month's perspective.

A new sprue every three months is the routine. The only question is if the order is materially affected or if it's the same order, but with Orlock jumping the queue... Next is Escher then Van Saar then Cawdor and last and obviously least Delaque?!? What is Orlock get two vehicles...

beast_gts wrote:
The Gorvos Crime Syndicate Enter the Underhive With Inimitable Style… and Lots of Gunk Bombs

Spoiler:

This is what I want to see more of. The release of all the hired guns featured in the books has been painfully slow. How many guilds have miniatures? Two? Only Goliaths have minis for their noble house patrons. I love the designs in Necromunda but I’ve given up hoping that they’ll ever get up to speed with releases.

They honestly seem more interested in selling new books at this point, rather than actually giving us models for all the stuff in the books they’ve published so far.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
A new sprue every three months is the routine. The only question is if the order is materially affected or if it's the same order, but with Orlock jumping the queue... Next is Escher then Van Saar then Cawdor and last and obviously least Delaque?!? What is Orlock get two vehicles...

Unless they release another big box with terrain and 2 gangs with vehicles.

Hmmmm... the Ash Wastes roadmap *did* show the core box - followed by three books - followed by another box...

Pretty sure that's where they print all these vehicles, and the additional bug types for the Nomads. Hopefully even more rules for vehicle customization such as extra large vehicles.

I see the "gunk bombs" as.. "hair gel bombs" given the exquisite pompadours on the models..

New Escher hanger's on:

Shivver:



Apprentice Clan Chymist:

I don’t want to say it less I jinx it but I have to say so being about to say it I apologise for jinxing it….

It’s really feeling like FW have extracted their Necromunda Digit, as we’re getting backlog gubbins at an improved rate.

Still a fair old way to go (Guilds…we need more Guilds!), but improved pace is improved.


Righto. That’s that knackered, back to quarterly releases and yearly “and we start again” House books

I have no actual clue what the hell is going on with the first miniature.

She's looking into her Crystal Ball Servo-Skull to divine the future.

No, really.

But why does her skirt do-

Whatever it's doing.

Aesthetic breeze. Flutter flutter.

Could be an actually functioning vent duct nearby, could be her powers manifesting a chill breeze, just because its mostly enclosed doesn't mean the Underhive has no air currents, after all its in the background that some areas have there own weather patterns.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
She's looking into her Crystal Ball Servo-Skull to divine the future.

No, really.

And she has a towel like Saruman to cover it. Who knows what kind of infernal powers might look back?

warl0rdb0b wrote:
Could be an actually functioning vent duct nearby, could be her powers manifesting a chill breeze, just because its mostly enclosed doesn't mean the Underhive has no air currents, after all its in the background that some areas have there own weather patterns.

Not forgetting the rather nasty massive fan that appears in the Badzone Delta-7 tiles set. Tends to dominate the board as it sucks your gangers to their doom

There's a lot of nice touches on that model; the tarot cards, the veil, the cable-hair. Some fun Voodoo-Boys Cyberpunk vibes and that Chymist is the right kind of understated for me.

Convoluted concepts and sculpting there.
Not a good thing.

Necromunda Forever!

I quite like both of them. May add them whenever I do another FW order. The first would be fun to use as a priest for IG, and the second with a head swap could be an alternate DE lahamian

Removed.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Convoluted concepts and sculpting there.
Not a good thing.

Just curious, what do you consider convoluted about the concepts?

That's a really unfortunate skirt on the Shivver, and the painted on tiger stripes don't really help.

I think if you ditch the veil and clean up the folds downstairs, it's going to be a nice looking model.

I like the Chemyst - simple design effectively executed.

Chemyst is cool.

Don’t like the Shivver. Not up on the lore there, but not a fan of the look.

Removed - rule #1

I’m digging the new models, not sure about the paintjobs, but that’s an issue I have with most FW Necromunda models.

Jes Goodwin's original Escher are still the best.

JSG wrote:
Jes Goodwin's original Escher are still the best.

Probably some of his finest work as a sculptor. I think the new Eschers do a pretty good job of capturing the same feel though.

Not bad.

It would be great to get some of these, instead of just looking at them as pretty pictures.

Dropped around $200.00 on some trucks, then there was the Heresy stuff that sucking my soul.

My little guys live in the truck, and I'm working on a towed excavation platform with a crane and digging rig. Their home base is a cave system with IG crates and a fort with the shipping containers.

For a modeling tip- the spray foam in a can does wonders!

Ooooh. Interesting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/05/the-great-rift-hits-necromunda-and-stokes-the-flames-of-rebellion-in-a-new-narrative-expansion/

Proper “this is happening” narrative campaign.

I’m a bit conflicted. Necromunda has always been a “your dudes” game and I’m dubious about a ”controlled” campaign. Still, the article does reference new Escher vehicles, so there’s that

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ooooh. Interesting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/05/the-great-rift-hits-necromunda-and-stokes-the-flames-of-rebellion-in-a-new-narrative-expansion/

Proper “this is happening” narrative campaign.

Looking forward to the new stuff. Less so the implications to the lore; I kind of like that Necromunda as a setting tends to be its own thing and generally just cheerfully ignore events in the wider 40k world.

Something something campaign book, whatever, but...



...why aren't we getting figurines of fancy females favoring fashionable fur hats?

It's just neat. It's also the Vostroyan situation all over again. You'd think there was a market for elaborately dressed people in 40k or its side games. But no, not a single similar plastic kit in sight. Shame.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ooooh. Interesting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/05/the-great-rift-hits-necromunda-and-stokes-the-flames-of-rebellion-in-a-new-narrative-expansion/

Proper “this is happening” narrative campaign.

Looking forward to the new stuff. Less so the implications to the lore; I kind of like that Necromunda as a setting tends to be its own thing and generally just cheerfully ignore events in the wider 40k world.

It can be both

Like 40K campaign books, they’re more a Serving Suggestion. If it keeps content coming and the game on the shelves, I’m happy enough.

Hopefully we do, I think the Vostroyans are some of my favourite miniatures that GW have ever produced.

It's interesting certainly, I like the idea of the narrative campaign. I agree that part of the interest of Necromunda is that it is outside the bounds of 40k. This allows for all of the whackier tech that's abound and the great aesthetics. Although it is technically part of 40k, I see it really as a separate thing.

Time will tell what this will bring, but I'm certainly interested in how the Escher vehicles will look.

This expansion is the first chapter in The Aranthian Succession, a planet-spanning story that will change the face of Necromunda forever – assuming it survives…

Am I the only one who did a double-take at this? Not saying they're ending Necromunda, but if they were, I feel that's exactly how GW would have done it ...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ooooh. Interesting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/05/the-great-rift-hits-necromunda-and-stokes-the-flames-of-rebellion-in-a-new-narrative-expansion/

Proper “this is happening” narrative campaign.

Looking forward to the new stuff. Less so the implications to the lore; I kind of like that Necromunda as a setting tends to be its own thing and generally just cheerfully ignore events in the wider 40k world.

It can be both

Like 40K campaign books, they’re more a Serving Suggestion. If it keeps content coming and the game on the shelves, I’m happy enough.

Absolutely; I've no problem with more content. I just think with 'Munda I'd have a preference for the setting to be broadened (Ash Wastes is a great example; they've previously mentioned the Eye of Selene and some of the other 'lost' Hives, nevermind whatever the Delaque have buried in their weird little Eldritch murk) rather than a continuous need to nudge the narrative 'forward' or dramatically 'change the face of Necromunda forever' as that article suggests (appreciate this is likely just their usual WH:Comms spiel rather than us getting another Cadia situation).

I’m in two minds on the advancing narrative.

On one hand, it might help the overall setting, and to chart the possible transfer of power on a Hive World seems pretty interesting.

On the other hand? Proof is in the pudding. If the new background is poor, it could harm the game’s reputation.

I see potential in building some formal stories into the campaigns themselves. One issue GW has always had is that not everyone actually reads outside of the codex+rulebook. Broadly speaking a lot of gamers never touch Black Library.

Plus the story for the game will be optional; at its core you'll still have the same kind of missions and objectives and structures that you can put into your own campaigns and missions. Same as how narrative campaign books for 40K and AoS are basically a series of themed missions and objectives that you can easily adapt outside of those settings.

Really weird choice.

A) it seems really irrelevant to Ash Wastes. You know, the new expansion of the game that they... just started. Yeah sure, gangs A and B get some tonka trucks in the new book, but that was a given anyway.

B) it seems utterly detached from what Necromunda is all about- scum & criminals fighting in the Underhive. Not high level spire politics. Why in the world would it matter which NPC rules the planet?

Voss wrote:
Really weird choice.

A) it seems really irrelevant to Ash Wastes. You know, the new expansion of the game that they... just started. Yeah sure, gangs A and B get some tonka trucks in the new book, but that was a given anyway.

B) it seems utterly detached from what Necromunda is all about- scum & criminals fighting in the Underhive. Not high level spire politics. Why in the world would it matter which NPC rules the planet?

I think the relevance is that the Ash Waste Nomads are the descendants of the pre-Imperial ruling class of Necromunda, and have been running an insurgency in the ten millenia since.

I'm guessing they will see this as an opportunity to rise up (hence Aranthian Succession- the world was known as Araneus Prime before compliance). Having Ash Waste Nomads attacking en masse is both relevant to the Ash wastes and those poor buggers living and fighting out there.

Oh, and the gangs are the proxy forces of the Houses, who are all affiliated with Noble Houses that will be leveraging the Houses to improve their own positions in the Succession. So increased House-sponsored gang activity and outright gang wars is a given.

I don't think Gerontius Helmawr had a clearly established line of succession, so all the self-declared heirs are coming out of the woodwork claiming the throne. This may even put the throne of House Helmawr in jeopardy. Maybe one of the other noble houses sees its chance to take control and become the new ruling house. Clan Houses could see an opportunity to rise to become a noble house. Anyone that helps an heir or a new house take the throne could expect rich rewards.

Even for small time gangs, the effects can ripple out in the form of new contracts and jobs as the houses try to better their position. All the various rebellious elements on Necromunda can also see their chance as the authorities are distracted.

I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

I think it's a nice contrast to have some of the noble houses in the spotlight. The lower gangs are scum and criminals, true, but who are the real villains?

 Olthannon wrote:
I think it's a nice contrast to have some of the noble houses in the spotlight. The lower gangs are scum and criminals, true, but who are the real villains?

Everyone?
It's not really a setting that needs 'real villains'

Iracundus wrote:
I don't think Gerontius Helmawr had a clearly established line of succession, so all the self-declared heirs are coming out of the woodwork claiming the throne. This may even put the throne of House Helmawr in jeopardy. Maybe one of the other noble houses sees its chance to take control and become the new ruling house. Clan Houses could see an opportunity to rise to become a noble house. Anyone that helps an heir or a new house take the throne could expect rich rewards.

Even for small time gangs, the effects can ripple out in the form of new contracts and jobs as the houses try to better their position. All the various rebellious elements on Necromunda can also see their chance as the authorities are distracted.

I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

There’s even the chance for a Clan House to climb the ladder to Noble House. Which could be interesting.

Iracundus wrote:
I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

The whole thing is a ruse to get his enemies to show their hand. It'll end with a Godfatheresque montage of the would be usurpers being dealt with.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
I don't think Gerontius Helmawr had a clearly established line of succession, so all the self-declared heirs are coming out of the woodwork claiming the throne. This may even put the throne of House Helmawr in jeopardy. Maybe one of the other noble houses sees its chance to take control and become the new ruling house. Clan Houses could see an opportunity to rise to become a noble house. Anyone that helps an heir or a new house take the throne could expect rich rewards.

Even for small time gangs, the effects can ripple out in the form of new contracts and jobs as the houses try to better their position. All the various rebellious elements on Necromunda can also see their chance as the authorities are distracted.

I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

There’s even the chance for a Clan House to climb the ladder to Noble House. Which could be interesting.

I doubt that would happen because it might invalidate gangs for players, but at least in terms of background, there is the potential. After all, the noble houses themselves are of varying ages, with for example House Ty with its creepy Japanese masks is said in House of Shadow to be one of the youngest noble houses and looked down upon as "new nobility" by older houses like the Ulanti. That must mean they must have come from somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

The whole thing is a ruse to get his enemies to show their hand. It'll end with a Godfatheresque montage of the would be usurpers being dealt with.

We already had that with Vect in Commorragh. I'd rather not have a recycled plot.

If Gerontius has to survive, I'd rather he come back a shattered wreck and effectively a puppet of whoever the winner of the succession struggle is.

They can't do "House Goliath Again... now with Vehicles!", so are trying something different, and putting in the new rules via campaign supplements.

I don't have a problem with that. Makes for something new, rather than going over the same ground again. Again.

Iracundus wrote:
I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

The final book in the series starts with him walking out of the shower and saying he had the strangest dream.

Would be interesting if he "survived" as a servitor or servo skull.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They can't do "House Goliath Again... now with Vehicles!", so are trying something different, and putting in the new rules via campaign supplements.

I don't have a problem with that. Makes for something new, rather than going over the same ground again. Again.

Iracundus wrote:
I hope there is some outcome other than "Gerontius Helmawr wakes up from his medical stasis coma all healed. Status quo restored"

The final book in the series starts with him walking out of the shower and saying he had the strangest dream.

Walking out the shower as Suzzlebutt’s leg?

 Haighus wrote:
Would be interesting if he "survived" as a servitor or servo skull.

Or as a Helmawr Jar. Because that worked out so well for House Mung…

Voss wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think it's a nice contrast to have some of the noble houses in the spotlight. The lower gangs are scum and criminals, true, but who are the real villains?

Everyone?
It's not really a setting that needs 'real villains'

Incorrect Voss, it is always them rich basstahds up in the roof.

The current clan house alliances with noble houses (along with the house strength) are:

Escher Ulanti (chem trade)
Goliath Greim (military)
Orlock Ran Lo (bankers)
Van Saar Catallus (diplomacy)
Cawdor Ko'Iron (Ecclesiarchy ties)
Delaque Ty (creepy psykers, secrets + information)

As above so below. So I can see the struggle among the noble houses being mirrored among the gangs, with the noble houses hiring gangs to disrupt the activities of their enemies.

Iracundus wrote:
The current clan house alliances with noble houses (along with the house strength) are:

Escher Ulanti (chem trade)
Goliath Greim (military)
Orlock Ran Lo (bankers)
Van Saar Catallus (diplomacy)
Cawdor Ko'Iron (Ecclesiarchy ties)
Delaque Ty (creepy psykers)

As above so below. So I can see the struggle among the noble houses being mirrored among the gangs, with the noble houses hiring gangs to disrupt the activities of their enemies.

Delaque are also very closely linked with House Helmawr itself, which probably be relevant.

So is the necromunda gang going to visit other planets? We need spaceships for that.

 Haighus wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The current clan house alliances with noble houses (along with the house strength) are:

Escher Ulanti (chem trade)
Goliath Greim (military)
Orlock Ran Lo (bankers)
Van Saar Catallus (diplomacy)
Cawdor Ko'Iron (Ecclesiarchy ties)
Delaque Ty (creepy psykers)

As above so below. So I can see the struggle among the noble houses being mirrored among the gangs, with the noble houses hiring gangs to disrupt the activities of their enemies.

Delaque are also very closely linked with House Helmawr itself, which probably be relevant.

All the Houses can make some sort of claim to being linked to House Helmawr and claim that their area of strength is vital to any ruler and to Necromunda as a whole.

Iracundus wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The current clan house alliances with noble houses (along with the house strength) are:

Escher Ulanti (chem trade)
Goliath Greim (military)
Orlock Ran Lo (bankers)
Van Saar Catallus (diplomacy)
Cawdor Ko'Iron (Ecclesiarchy ties)
Delaque Ty (creepy psykers)

As above so below. So I can see the struggle among the noble houses being mirrored among the gangs, with the noble houses hiring gangs to disrupt the activities of their enemies.

Delaque are also very closely linked with House Helmawr itself, which probably be relevant.

All the Houses can make some sort of claim to being linked to House Helmawr and claim that their area of strength is vital to any ruler and to Necromunda as a whole.

Well, yes, but the others don't serve as the intelligence service of the House controlling the state. That puts Delaque into a very particular position if a change of regime is on the cards.

Yeah, the winning one.
Unless they do something very silly like make a play for top squid-man* themselves.


*because we all know what’s really going on there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The final book in the series starts with him walking out of the shower and saying he had the strangest dream.

I wonder how old you have to be to get that reverence

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I wonder how old you have to be to get that reverence

I'll be honest, that reference is almost before my time. I only know about it from my parents.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The final book in the series starts with him walking out of the shower and saying he had the strangest dream.

I wonder how old you have to be to get that reference

About my age, but I was more a Dynasty fan than a Dallas one. It's right up there with The Fonz jumping the actual shark.

I'm up for a Necromunda module. I guess it's like Necromunda Quest, but with rulers and templates. Not expecting anything fancy, but much better than the Book of Bikes.

It's part of the zeitgeist for anyone 35 or older I'd say .

Two factions per book? Master is very generous to Dobby.

The art they’ve shown looks amazing. Let’s hope FW actually gets round to making some minis. We’re still waiting for most of the guilds.

The power outage mention suggests maybe the guilds being responsible or being a target.

Of course it could also be as mundane as the promethium and electro guilds announcing that the fighting has led to higher inflation and prices due to a shortage of promethium or damage to existing infrastructure.

Iracundus wrote:

Of course it could also be as mundane as the promethium and electro guilds announcing that the fighting has led to higher inflation and prices due to a shortage of promethium or damage to existing infrastructure.

Where do people come up with these random outlandish ideas

Narrative campaign is interesting, provided they don’t blow up the planet!

Also, regular, free scenarios incoming!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/05/this-free-necromunda-scenario-takes-the-squats-into-the-underhive-alongside-a-psychic-ogryn/

I like the Awakened Ogryn, give the stupidest guy in the Underhive a mega brain and turn him into the Avatar of Khaine with Body of Flame

Being smart is not required to cast psychic power. Psykers use Willpower.

Ogryn, your Will energy is low. Do you have any potions or food? Watch that.

Chopstick wrote:
Being smart is not required to cast psychic power. Psykers use Willpower.

Were you kneeling when the joke flew over your head?

 Rolsheen wrote:
I like the Awakened Ogryn, give the stupidest guy in the Underhive a mega brain and turn him into the Avatar of Khaine with Body of Flame

Grimdark Professor Hulk?

 Rolsheen wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
Being smart is not required to cast psychic power. Psykers use Willpower.

Were you kneeling when the joke flew over your head?

No, I was just pointing out perharp you were mistaken casting psychic power require Intelligence instead of Willpower. In fact this guy has the exact same stat as a servitor ogryn, indicate that these guys didn't have any significant change to their mental capability, and it is stated that having "lack of imagination" actually is an advantage to help them survive the warp.

I must say that the concept of a psyker Ogryn is just nuts (in a good way).

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

About my age, but I was more a Dynasty fan than a Dallas one.

I'm somewhat of a Colbys connoisseur myself.

You just can't beat the UFO scene.

That was one of the neatest things I've seen all day.

Another raid scenario. Someone in GW really like to make endless amount of scenarios. Reiterating the same ideas: Settlement raid, Gang Raids, Manufactorum raid, desperate raid and now tech raid. Hunt for some archeotech. Sounds similar to archeo-hunters.

The scenario itself is broken in all the typical ways. Defender can simply voluntarily flee before the attacker has a chance to reach the objective. Requires an involuntarily failed bottle test, which is easy to trigger considering those rely on the starting crew size (which in turn wrecks a lot of scenarios, including this one if you want to stay for an honorable fight).

And another brute. On top of all the others. At least this one got some psychic powers to choose from, just stay away from the one that boosts an equipped ranged weapon (the awakened ogryn can't be equipped with ranged weapons).

A lot of fluff. No quality.

Sometimes fluff is enough...

Plus, Psychic Ogryn are cool.

And it is pretty well known that nothing they produce would satisfy Baxx anyway.

That's unfair. Newcromunda is a very sloppy game - the amount of time I see people asking "What books do I actually need?" on the Facebook groups is a testament to that - and Baxx is the one guy with the patience to go through and painstakingly catalogue all the issues of missing/incorrect rules.

 Dysartes wrote:
And it is pretty well known that nothing they produce would satisfy Baxx anyway.

Having a meaningful list of psychic powers that can be used by the awakened ogryn would go a long way. Didn't complain much about all the other outlaw brutes that were released in a free pdf a couple of years ago.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's unfair. Newcromunda is a very sloppy game -

That's not entirely a bad thing, just wait a second I'll get back to that. How many books do you need to play the original Necromunda? One, the redonculous hardcover that punishes my Billy bookcase. How many expansions were there for original Necromunda and how did you get them? Actually, I don't care because after the big-@$$ book the game was effectively dead. Got a reboot and some first party kit bashes, then torpor. And here we are five years after the re-re-boot and a punishing amount of books--and a metric ton of minis. Should the quality be better, absolutely! Should the Hive War book be available to buy like a super-sized White Dwarf to get people into the game, heck-to-the-ya! But instead we have a sloppy game that is playable, but most important still viable. I'll take sloppy over dead any day.

As someone not personally bothered by the sloppiness, as I’ve always tinkered with Necromunda?

It’s still a valid criticism. When I get my campaign going at Chaos Cards? I’ll be wheeling out my extensive, complete library of Necromunda rule books. I’ll be proper GMing, so no Gang, no vested interest, arguably best placed to decide any rules oddities.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have an idiot like me perfectly happy just to run the campaign. And that can make getting into the game tricky, because the rules are quite spread out.

Yes, strictly speaking you just need Rulebook and House Of of your personal preference.

But….which rulebook? Because they’re all subtlety different. Some incorporate FAQ, others don’t.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

That's not entirely a bad thing, just wait a second I'll get back to that. How many books do you need to play the original Necromunda? One, the redonculous hardcover that punishes my Billy bookcase. How many expansions were there for original Necromunda and how did you get them? Actually, I don't care because after the big-@$$ book the game was effectively dead. Got a reboot and some first party kit bashes, then torpor. And here we are five years after the re-re-boot and a punishing amount of books--and a metric ton of minis. Should the quality be better, absolutely! Should the Hive War book be available to buy like a super-sized White Dwarf to get people into the game, heck-to-the-ya! But instead we have a sloppy game that is playable, but most important still viable. I'll take sloppy over dead any day.

That's funny, the game ended up dying in the city I live because of the constant stream of books making people lose track (in addition to game and campaign crashing a lot). Regardless, it's pretty much subjective. My original comment was more on the objective side. A psyker with a list of available wyrd powers should be able to use those wyrd powers. Not having dead options is a pretty common and universal game design.

It's interesting that people think psyker ogryn is cool (well of course it is), but what makes you rely on GW to make one? Wouldn't an enforcer ogryn with shield be cool also? It would take me 10 seconds to make one. It's not exactly rocket science. Particularly when you don't need to think about quality or balance.

Baxx wrote:

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

That's not entirely a bad thing, just wait a second I'll get back to that. How many books do you need to play the original Necromunda? One, the redonculous hardcover that punishes my Billy bookcase. How many expansions were there for original Necromunda and how did you get them? Actually, I don't care because after the big-@$$ book the game was effectively dead. Got a reboot and some first party kit bashes, then torpor. And here we are five years after the re-re-boot and a punishing amount of books--and a metric ton of minis. Should the quality be better, absolutely! Should the Hive War book be available to buy like a super-sized White Dwarf to get people into the game, heck-to-the-ya! But instead we have a sloppy game that is playable, but most important still viable. I'll take sloppy over dead any day.

That's funny, the game ended up dying in the city I live because of the constant stream of books making people lose track (in addition to game and campaign crashing a lot). Regardless, it's pretty much subjective. My original comment was more on the objective side. A psyker with a list of available wyrd powers should be able to use those wyrd powers. Not having dead options is a pretty common and universal game design.

It's interesting that people think psyker ogryn is cool (well of course it is), but what makes you rely on GW to make one? Wouldn't an enforcer ogryn with shield be cool also? It would take me 10 seconds to make one. It's not exactly rocket science. Particularly when you don't need to think about quality or balance.

Is there some kind of artwork for the Psy Ogryn?

Baxx wrote:

It's interesting that people think psyker ogryn is cool (well of course it is), but what makes you rely on GW to make one? Wouldn't an enforcer ogryn with shield be cool also? It would take me 10 seconds to make one. It's not exactly rocket science. Particularly when you don't need to think about quality or balance.

Many of us don’t rely on GW especially if you were around from the start. GW games have never been particularly balanced or well thought out, it’s not a new thing. It’s part of why I often say that I had fun with Rogue Trader in spite of the rules. I don’t take personal offence when FW cocks up its own cut and paste, I just try to take it in the spirit it was meant rather than the clumsy execution. And for the record I’m not that enthused by psychic ogryn. But shield ogryn seems like something that should be a thing and can be if your arbitrator wants it. I don’t think of Necromunda as a competitive game so much as a emergent storytelling game…with miniatures. Since I grew up with vague, incoherent and poorly worded RPG rules I guess I’m just used to figuring out what I want from the game.

And that’s enough of that.

Is the psyker ogyrn an entirely new thing, or has there been hints of that sort of thing before now?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Is there some kind of artwork for the Psy Ogryn?

Sadly not - I'd love to see it though!

I’d start with the ogryn bodyguard from the traitor commissar set.

Surely this is a job for this bad boy:

 Flinty wrote:
Surely this is a job for this bad boy:

Cuz I'm Batogryn.</ultralowvoice>

whats with so many glass bottles on the armour?

 NAVARRO wrote:
whats with so many glass bottles on the armour?

Whilst I suspect you probably know, and indeed that is the joke the model is from the Water Guild.

 NAVARRO wrote:
whats with so many glass bottles on the armour?

Water Guild!

Personally I wouldn't base a conversion on that model. Psychic ability is a mutation. I'd prefer to use an Ogryn model that has more Ogryn to it and less metal and tech stuff to show that the prominent feature of the model is in the organic part.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
whats with so many glass bottles on the armour?

Water Guild!

That's shorthand for Greenish Liquid We Label Water, Conditions Apply Guild, right?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I’d start with the ogryn bodyguard from the traitor commissar set.

That was my instinct too.

New toys! Up for pre-order next week. Pretty sure the CGC upgrades weren’t previously previewed.

HEY! Whips are an Escher thing! Why do the wastelanders get buzz-saw whips!

Anything else? Article hasn't popped yet.

Loads of stuff, but this is it for Necromunda.

 Overread wrote:
HEY! Whips are an Escher thing! Why do the wastelanders get buzz-saw whips!

Those are Corpse Grinder Cult bits.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Anything else? Article hasn't popped yet.

Yeah, loads.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/14/sunday-preview-black-library-heroes-on-the-page-and-the-tabletop-amid-an-arcane-cataclysm/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunday-preview&utm_content=sunday-preview
More AoS than necromunda, really.

 Overread wrote:
HEY! Whips are an Escher thing! Why do the wastelanders get buzz-saw whips!

...they don't? There's two hands on them - it's a crooked polearm that the Corpse Grinder Cults can use. A buzz saw on a stick, if you will.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
HEY! Whips are an Escher thing! Why do the wastelanders get buzz-saw whips!

...they don't? There's two hands on them - it's a crooked polearm that the Corpse Grinder Cults can use. A buzz saw on a stick, if you will.

Yeah I kinda see that now - but my imagination now wants buzz-saw whips

Is that the first new weapon set that's resin, ever since they started making them plastic?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Is that the first new weapon set that's resin, ever since they started making them plastic?

I believe so. I guess Corpse Grinders aren’t considered one of the main factions so get lesser treatment.

I believe so, and good spot on it being Resin, on account it’s FW releasing it.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Is that the first new weapon set that's resin, ever since they started making them plastic?

I think so. I wanted to say the FW Escher Champions Weapons came out after the plastic Escher Weapons, but looking at the store pages the FW ones were 2020 and the GW ones 2021.

but everybody that got a plastic weapon sprue release had already had a FW resin weapons pack,

so we still don't know if the corpse grinders might not get a plastic sprue in a year or so

it's not double up so it's very likely resin.

Gives me hope that Slave Ogryn might get a weapon set.

They could have done with a head/mask set as well. Maybe one will follow, I suppose.

I'm not sure I think that a "heavy rock cutter" that appears to be just mechanical jaws on the end of a flexible wire is going to be very good at cutting rocks (let alone people - hold still while I attach the jaws, scummer!), but whatever, it's 40k.

I think you swing it at someone... I think!

Ambot weapon upgrades?

More seriously, will Enforcers get a weapon pack? And corpse grinders could use their second plastic kit since even enforcers have one.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Ambot weapon upgrades?

More seriously, will Enforcers get a weapon pack? And corpse grinders could use their second plastic kit since even enforcers have one.

All the enforcer weapons in the gang list are already on the sprues, refreshingly, so I suspect they skip that. Heads, though, would be nice.

Need an Ogryn and Squat gang upgrades. Squats need some more guns that aren't weird double barrelled/triple magazine'd monstrosities.

Some melee weapons would be nice!

Yep, Squats got diddly-squat by way of options in the kit :(

Oh LAWKS!

Models here but I can’t figure out how to share the rotational images.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/15/take-a-spin-on-the-escher-cutter-a-lightning-fast-jetbike-for-when-the-floor-really-is-lava/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Escher and Goliath rules confirmed to be in the forthcoming Cinderak Burning book.

I'm not too familiar with the smaller details of Necromunda lore, I could understand Van Saar and even to a lesser extent Delaque having anti-grav tech vehicles, but does it make much sense for Escher? Is it not something meant to be relatively rare?

Relatively rare within the Imperium.

But given Van Saar make fairly extensive use of it, seemingly not as comparatively rare on Necromunda. Especially if you’re not that bothered by Elf’n’Safety.

It'll probably cost a lot, so you only get a couple of them.

Anti-grav tech is rare, but based on the fluff in the warcom article these aren't necessarily anti-grav tech, instead it sounds like they take the F-4 Phantom approach to flight: “a brick can fly if you stick a big enough engine on it.”

EDIT - I'm also loving the tiger stripe and leopard print on those things, fantastic painting!

And we also need to keep in mind rare is a strictly comparative thing.

If perhaps 1 in 1,000 weapons is a Plasma Weapon, then in terms of stock Plasma is rare. But there’d still be millions, if not billions, in circulation.

Anti-Grav is also difficult to maintain, so less suited to warfare for certain armies. But again, that’s in comparison to stuff like the Leman Russ, Rhino and Chimera, where it would seem simply whacking it with a spanner works marvels a good percentage of the time.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Anti-grav tech is rare, but based on the fluff in the warcom article these aren't necessarily anti-grav tech, instead it sounds like they take the F-4 Phantom approach to flight: “a brick can fly if you stick a big enough engine on it.”

It literally says in the article they use anti-grav tech:

...strap some anti-grav tech to a big turbine...

Rare or not, I absolutely love them.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Anti-grav tech is rare, but based on the fluff in the warcom article these aren't necessarily anti-grav tech, instead it sounds like they take the F-4 Phantom approach to flight: “a brick can fly if you stick a big enough engine on it.”

It literally says in the article they use anti-grav tech:

...strap some anti-grav tech to a big turbine...

meh, missed that. I like my interpretation better.

I miss the times where gangs on Necromunda weren't better equipped and more technologically advanced than the majority of the Imperium's armies, even the comparatively elite, like the Scions or SoBs.

Also, seems these are Mounts, not vehicles. So they’re an equipment upgrade for Leaders and Champons. Specifically mentions Death Maidens too.

Genuinely tempted to get these just to have them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And we also need to keep in mind rare is a strictly comparative thing.

If perhaps 1 in 1,000 weapons is a Plasma Weapon, then in terms of stock Plasma is rare. But there’d still be millions, if not billions, in circulation.

Anti-Grav is also difficult to maintain, so less suited to warfare for certain armies. But again, that’s in comparison to stuff like the Leman Russ, Rhino and Chimera, where it would seem simply whacking it with a spanner works marvels a good percentage of the time.

I think for me the main issue is that it feels like it's watering down the themes of the different house somewhat, Escher aren't really the ones I'd consider anti-grav tech to be something that easily fits them compared to others like Van Saar. Now even the one that isn't really about that sort of rare high-tech stuff can get anti-grav as a relatively normal thing, rather than something that is more suitable with their idea in general.

Anti-grav perhaps. But Jetbikes do seem very Escher.

I’m still half expecting a tunneller of some kind for Delaque. Like a Mutant Nosediver from Thundercats.

Cawdor can have a Cartie and like it, pram wheels and all.

This make me think of Earthworm Jim.

And the last Goliath "bike" is a ripoff from Halo

So I guess that's the design teams MO. Copy it from video games.

Necromunda seems to be getting a bit silly.

 oni wrote:
This make me think of Earthworm Jim.

And the last Goliath "bike" is a ripoff from Halo

So I guess that's the design teams MO. Copy it from video games.

Necromunda seems to be getting a bit silly.

Necromunda has been getting a bit silly ever since someone decided that random gangers in the underhive should have more advanced and rarer tech than the vast majority of the Imperium's actual armies. Now it's just plain ludicrous.

The Gangs are essentially PMC in 40K.

Add in Necromunda being a major arms manufacturer world, and it does make sense. You cream off a tiny percentage of your output for home use, and you end up with comparatively well armed soldiers, even those that act as Cats Paws.

And there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of absolutely bugger all preventing a given group placing a moratorium on stuff they don’t think fits.

Getting Phantom Menace podracing vibes here. Pop two of them together, then a chariot behind them then cables connecting them. That would be a nice kitbash project.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 oni wrote:
This make me think of Earthworm Jim.

And the last Goliath "bike" is a ripoff from Halo

So I guess that's the design teams MO. Copy it from video games.

Necromunda seems to be getting a bit silly.

Necromunda has been getting a bit silly ever since someone decided that random gangers in the underhive should have more advanced and rarer tech than the vast majority of the Imperium's actual armies. Now it's just plain ludicrous.

I don't see how that's an issue. They're some of the wealthiest houses on Necromunda and aren't as bound by the limitations imposed by the rest of the Imperium. The Imperiums armie aren't meant to be equipped with the best - The logistics, bureaucracy, rules, Mechanicus's dogma etc that affect those aren't much of a factor for the Necromunda houses.

Nice, my only gripe is the lack of goggles or masks. That ash will causing a bit of eye watering for sure...

Just to add to this. People overestimate the rarity of Grav-technology in the Imperium. Plenty of Black Library books mention civilian vehicles that are anti-grav.

Add to that cherubs, servo-skulls, Grav-pulpits and even grav-chutes, which are used by guard regiments.

Meh. Necromunda is outside the realms of 40k for all intents and purposes. It's a different aesthetic, it's a different game and it allows designers to go a bit more mental with individual units. Necromunda has always been sillier.

Antigrav kit is still rare in the wider Imperium where normal things apply. There's plenty of ways you can make up a reason for how some Escher get the bikes. The article says they're still rare, mainly just for the leaders.

I would have liked the Escher to have something similar to the admech serberys robo horsedogs. I think that would have been closer in line to them. But the jet bikes are still pretty neat.

I hope Cawdor get something like a Snotling pump wagon.

I'd half-expected for Escher mounts to be beasts rather than vehicles, and I'd not even considered that they would be these magnificent beauties!

Looks to be four to a box as well.

Only 1 mask kinda oof, but overall as expected, nice firepower also.

Maybe Escher get grav-bikes because Van Saar are getting some kind of Tachikoma-inspired spider-bikes?

I would say the hyperbole is really ramping up though.

"...at staggering speeds, granting them a Movement of 9″". I thought Escher started out at M7. So the grav-bike can move along at the speed of a sprinting person. Staggering indeed!

grahamdbailey wrote:
I'd half-expected for Escher mounts to be beasts rather than vehicles, and I'd not even considered that they would be these magnificent beauties!

I was expecting a mix of beasts and bikes kinda like a certain dinosaur film

But I'll happily take jetbikes! Only thing that seems a little odd to me they are rather on the chunky instead of lithe side, but I accept that they are likely using lower level technology so something sleek like an Eldar bike is perhaps infringing on what other factions would bring to the table (like Van Saar).

TBH I was expecting bikes, but not jetbikes.

The blade on the front is optimistic. As if one of those things wouldn't disintegrate on impact if it ever tried to hit something.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Cawdor can have a Cartie and like it, pram wheels and all.

Are you kidding? The Cawdor car is going to be people powered. Literally.

Oh yeah, now we're talking! Those Escher jetbikes look great! Gotta have!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
TBH I was expecting bikes, but not jetbikes.

The blade on the front is optimistic. As if one of those things wouldn't disintegrate on impact if it ever tried to hit something.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Cawdor can have a Cartie and like it, pram wheels and all.

Are you kidding? The Cawdor car is going to be people powered. Literally.

I’d love it if Cawdor got bicycles. Just ordinary bicycles.

Bicycle infantry has a long and noble history Maybe not so useful in an ash desert

 Flinty wrote:
Bicycle infantry has a long and noble history Maybe not so useful in an ash desert

Yes, but their special rule is that a ganger on a bicycle moves slower than one on foot, but they can carry extra weapons in the basket on the front.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Gangs are essentially PMC in 40K.

Add in Necromunda being a major arms manufacturer world, and it does make sense. You cream off a tiny percentage of your output for home use, and you end up with comparatively well armed soldiers, even those that act as Cats Paws.

And there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of absolutely bugger all preventing a given group placing a moratorium on stuff they don’t think fits.

Maybe it wouldn't be so blatant if we weren't also somehow supposed to believe that all the other gangs, with their plasma rifles, grav-guns, anti-grav, speeders, jetbikes, power armour, exo-suits, robots and God knows what else are supposed to be an even match for the Cawdor, with their sharpened sticks and clubs.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Gangs are essentially PMC in 40K.

Add in Necromunda being a major arms manufacturer world, and it does make sense. You cream off a tiny percentage of your output for home use, and you end up with comparatively well armed soldiers, even those that act as Cats Paws.

And there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of absolutely bugger all preventing a given group placing a moratorium on stuff they don’t think fits.

Thing is, a lot of the stuff that the Necromunda houses are using isn't being manufactured for the Imperium at all. You can't "cream off a percentage" of something that isn't being produced. The implication here is the houses have their own secret factories producing kit that is arguably technologically superior to that of the Imperiums actual military forces.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 oni wrote:
This make me think of Earthworm Jim.
And the last Goliath "bike" is a ripoff from Halo
So I guess that's the design teams MO. Copy it from video games.
Necromunda seems to be getting a bit silly.

Necromunda has been getting a bit silly ever since someone decided that random gangers in the underhive should have more advanced and rarer tech than the vast majority of the Imperium's actual armies. Now it's just plain ludicrous.

I don't see how that's an issue. They're some of the wealthiest houses on Necromunda and aren't as bound by the limitations imposed by the rest of the Imperium. The Imperiums armie aren't meant to be equipped with the best - The logistics, bureaucracy, rules, Mechanicus's dogma etc that affect those aren't much of a factor for the Necromunda houses.

Counterpoint - with some of the kit that the Houses have access to, it would be like if the Hells Angels and the South Side Crips were running around fighting gang wars with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers. It doesn't make very much sense. Its one thing to not be bound by limitations and dogma, its another thing to actually be capable of producing kit of a higher level of technology than the society you belong to at large.

Just to add to this. People overestimate the rarity of Grav-technology in the Imperium. Plenty of Black Library books mention civilian vehicles that are anti-grav.
Add to that cherubs, servo-skulls, Grav-pulpits and even grav-chutes, which are used by guard regiments.

Black Library is non-canon and full of stuff that literally breaks the norms of the setting, so thats not a good argument. The "true canon", per GW itself, is whats published in publications by the design studio, and last I recall it said that the construction of jetbikes like that used by Samael of the Dark Angels and the Adeptus Custodes are basically a secret lost to time that the Imperium is incapable of replicating today. And yet, the roller-derby girls are blitzing around on them like its not big deal.

 Flinty wrote:
Bicycle infantry has a long and noble history Maybe not so useful in an ash desert

lol, Cawdor will get Penny Farthings with square wheels.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Gangs are essentially PMC in 40K.
Add in Necromunda being a major arms manufacturer world, and it does make sense. You cream off a tiny percentage of your output for home use, and you end up with comparatively well armed soldiers, even those that act as Cats Paws.
And there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of absolutely bugger all preventing a given group placing a moratorium on stuff they don’t think fits.

Maybe it wouldn't be so blatant if we weren't also somehow supposed to believe that all the other gangs, with their plasma rifles, grav-guns, anti-grav, speeders, jetbikes, power armour, exo-suits, robots and God knows what else are supposed to be an even match for the Cawdor, with their sharpened sticks and clubs.

Faith in the Emperor has a value all its own.

That bit of old lore about the Imperium not knowing how to make jetbikes never made sense to me. They can’t make a jetbikes, but they can make landspeeders?!

I think those bikes look great. I wish there were some way to use them in regular 40k

Serious Rey on chunky swoop vibe there.

I was pretty sure that Van Saar were going to get the jet bikes, but now I'm a bit stumped. They already have grav-cutters, which are jet bike like. They have a brute that is effectively a dreadnought. I joked about two person cutters with heavy weapons, but that's a joke--I hope. Data spider (hacker) and tachikoma could be cool if they thought about it. Hmm...

I wonder if Van Saar will more focus on armament. I mean, a Directed EMP is ideal in the wastes. Shoot your foe, shutdown their electronics. Take out the crew, replace the solenoid, and take the whole rig.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Gangs are essentially PMC in 40K.

Add in Necromunda being a major arms manufacturer world, and it does make sense. You cream off a tiny percentage of your output for home use, and you end up with comparatively well armed soldiers, even those that act as Cats Paws.

And there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of absolutely bugger all preventing a given group placing a moratorium on stuff they don’t think fits.

Thing is, a lot of the stuff that the Necromunda houses are using isn't being manufactured for the Imperium at all. You can't "cream off a percentage" of something that isn't being produced. The implication here is the houses have their own secret factories producing kit that is arguably technologically superior to that of the Imperiums actual military forces.

The components are being produced though, which then get crammed into whatever casing the gangs fancy. Are there any weapons/equipment that are entirely different, and that don't follow a well worn archetype that the low level of granularity in 40k as a whole hasn't specifically explored in the past (e.g. van saar laser shotguns)?

chaos0xomega wrote:

Counterpoint - with some of the kit that the Houses have access to, it would be like if the Hells Angels and the South Side Crips were running around fighting gang wars with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers. It doesn't make very much sense. Its one thing to not be bound by limitations and dogma, its another thing to actually be capable of producing kit of a higher level of technology than the society you belong to at large.

Except Necromunda gangs aren't US street gangs they are PMCs. They are proxies of the noble houses who are their patrons. So rather than Crips, Bloods and Hell Angels replace your statements with IRA, PLO, Hezbollah, ISIS, HAMAS, the Contras, Shining Path, ad nasseum. Also Necromunda produces a lot of kit for the Imperium so if a few (thousand) units find their way into the hands of "gangs" it's still a rounding error especially as some houses like Van Saar are the manufacturers of said weaponry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I wonder if Van Saar will more focus on armament. I mean, a Directed EMP is ideal in the wastes. Shoot your foe, shutdown their electronics. Take out the crew, replace the solenoid, and take the whole rig.

I'm really trying to figure out what they could cram on a single half-sized sprue. Two grave cutters and a techno-champion or one ambot means they could actually do a ridable think tank.

They don't need to be big. Here are a couple of half-assed versions I did far too long ago to be used as counts-as sentinels

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
That bit of old lore about the Imperium not knowing how to make jetbikes never made sense to me. They can’t make a jetbikes, but they can make landspeeders?!

Don't forget the Imperium doesn't treat technology like we do, nor even in a sane manner.

Many of the designs they use are not based on fundamental understanding of how something works and then using that understanding to make something superior for the war effort. It's based on a very specific set of designs that they are forbidden to change. You can forget how to make jetbikes and yet make landspeeders and hovercraft and such because you don't have the plans for a jetbike. There's no Standard Template for one, so you don't get one. Yes you have the technology to make them, but that would require tampering with already perfected designs and likely get you shot by the nearest Ad Mech.
The Imperium is full of tech that they either flat out don't understand how it works through to thinks that they understand but which are forbidden because it goes against the Standard Template. Technology in this setting, for the Imperium, is as much a religion as it is a necessity.


Also don't forget even if it were a sane world, the Imperium would hardly be the first army in the world to not use state of the art equipment. Remember the Imperial Guard are not the elite, they are the rank and file mass troops. What you produce for them has to be easy to make; mass market designs that are also easy to upkeep. It might be jetbikes are just not reliable; require more specialist upkeep, cost too much for general use. Especially when you have alternatives like rough riders and scout walkers which can do the similar job already. Add on top of that the fact that the Guard have to be mustered and formed on many worlds all over the Imperium. A tech that might rely on very specialised resources and such might be great, but it might not be the kind of design and setup that can be rolled out over the whole Imperium.


And yet for all that there likely ARE guard units that do make use of jetbikes. It's just not your standard issue equipment so we don't have models for them.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Counterpoint - with some of the kit that the Houses have access to, it would be like if the Hells Angels and the South Side Crips were running around fighting gang wars with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers. It doesn't make very much sense. Its one thing to not be bound by limitations and dogma, its another thing to actually be capable of producing kit of a higher level of technology than the society you belong to at large.

Except Necromunda gangs aren't US street gangs they are PMCs. They are proxies of the noble houses who are their patrons. So rather than Crips, Bloods and Hell Angels replace your statements with IRA, PLO, Hezbollah, ISIS, HAMAS, the Contras, Shining Path, ad nasseum. Also Necromunda produces a lot of kit for the Imperium so if a few (thousand) units find their way into the hands of "gangs" it's still a rounding error especially as some houses like Van Saar are the manufacturers of said weaponry.

Well, yes. That is actually my main beef with Newcromunda, because the bolded part is exactly what Necromunda gangs were supposed to be.

And there is nothing at all preventing you from running your gang that way if you so wish.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And there is nothing at all preventing you from running your gang that way if you so wish.

I mean, other than the rules, and being an donkey-cave for not letting other people play with the new toys, of course.

I can play by myself, but that's usually not very fun for a two players game.

I dunno about localised use of jetbikes. The jetbike thing comes from Sammael's fluff which states (taken from the Dark Angel codex 2006 edition, but I think this is still continued in later versions):
"At the time of the Horus Heresy, many Space Marine Chapters fielded jetbikes. these sleek craft allowed a single rider to soar across the battlefield at great speed, held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium. since those days the art of building and maintaining these craft has been all but forgotten by Humanity and it is regarded with superstition and distrust as the province of xenos races such as the Eldar and the Tau. The last of the Imperium's venerable "mark 14s" are thought to have been lost many centuries ago, and with them a glorious tradition of jet-cycle riding units stretching back to the days of the Great Crusade..." blah blah blah

On the other hand, the Custodes have them and grav vehicles in general are still definately a thing in the Imperium. Its probably just that the old Sammael fluff needs to be put to rest and smaller grav vehicles are just fine.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And there is nothing at all preventing you from running your gang that way if you so wish.

I mean, other than the rules, and being an donkey-cave for not letting other people play with the new toys, of course.

I can play by myself, but that's usually not very fun for a two players game.

But that wasn’t my claim there, was it? You can run a relatively low tech Gang if that’s your preference. Indeed you’re likely to end up more numerous than someone sinking Creds into higher tech, more powerful weapons.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And there is nothing at all preventing you from running your gang that way if you so wish.

I mean, other than the rules, and being an donkey-cave for not letting other people play with the new toys, of course.

I can play by myself, but that's usually not very fun for a two players game.

But that wasn’t my claim there, was it? You can run a relatively low tech Gang if that’s your preference. Indeed you’re likely to end up more numerous than someone sinking Creds into higher tech, more powerful weapons.

And the game makes sure to have a ganger cap on the scenarios, so... what does that earn me, exactly?

Potentially? Gangers with a wider selection of weapons. Such as a Basic Weapon, Pistols and CCW, making for a more flexible set of individuals.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Counterpoint - with some of the kit that the Houses have access to, it would be like if the Hells Angels and the South Side Crips were running around fighting gang wars with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers. It doesn't make very much sense. Its one thing to not be bound by limitations and dogma, its another thing to actually be capable of producing kit of a higher level of technology than the society you belong to at large.

Except Necromunda gangs aren't US street gangs they are PMCs. They are proxies of the noble houses who are their patrons. So rather than Crips, Bloods and Hell Angels replace your statements with IRA, PLO, Hezbollah, ISIS, HAMAS, the Contras, Shining Path, ad nasseum. Also Necromunda produces a lot of kit for the Imperium so if a few (thousand) units find their way into the hands of "gangs" it's still a rounding error especially as some houses like Van Saar are the manufacturers of said weaponry.

I was unaware the Imperium was producing Jetbikes, Hoverboards and Infinity-esque TAGs.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Counterpoint - with some of the kit that the Houses have access to, it would be like if the Hells Angels and the South Side Crips were running around fighting gang wars with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers. It doesn't make very much sense. Its one thing to not be bound by limitations and dogma, its another thing to actually be capable of producing kit of a higher level of technology than the society you belong to at large.

Except Necromunda gangs aren't US street gangs they are PMCs. They are proxies of the noble houses who are their patrons. So rather than Crips, Bloods and Hell Angels replace your statements with IRA, PLO, Hezbollah, ISIS, HAMAS, the Contras, Shining Path, ad nasseum. Also Necromunda produces a lot of kit for the Imperium so if a few (thousand) units find their way into the hands of "gangs" it's still a rounding error especially as some houses like Van Saar are the manufacturers of said weaponry.

I don't see any of those guys running around with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers either. The point which was apparently lost on you is that this is equipment that exceeds the tech level and capability of the US military itself. ISIS, Hezbollah, etc. are all using *lesser* technology, not *superior* technology like the Necromunda gangs are (except Cawdor, I guess).

Cawdor Redemptionist are not poor btw, they received direct funding from thane of Cawdor, the weapons are manufactured and modified with unique bits. Likely Champs and Leader of a non-redemptionist Cawdor gang can also be very rich and bought stuff off the trading post if they wanted too.

All I can think of is Sammael taking some Ravenwing out into the Ash Wastes on a training trip during a re-supply layover, and having his company watch the smug look slide off his face as some teenage gang-bangers swoop by.

The ensuing sulk will challenge the record of the Lion himself.

Imperial planets have a huge variety of tech levels. The Guard codex represents a kind of lowest common denominator- the minimum standard expected by the Departmento Munitorum and a standard most planets can achieve. However, we know that guardsmen can be much better equipped, although the current rules do not reflect it. For example, there are grenadier formations equipped to the standard of stormtroopers by default. There are units with universal bionic augmentation. There are regiments that can equip sergeants and officers with stormbolters or combi-weapons (the latter is from second edition, when the Guard range aesthetically matched Necromundan regiments, so it is reasonable to assume Necromundan officers frequently carry combi-weapons).

Most of this is similar to everything used by Necromundan gangs, but represents the gear that can be supplied and sustained by the wider Imperium. Van Saar is something of an outlier, but then they are also specifically hoarding STC tech that could see the whole House destroyed by the Adeptus Mechanicus to obtain. Plus, most of their stuff is just top-quality Imperial tech, nothing that we don't see in some form elsewhere.

 Flinty wrote:
I dunno about localised use of jetbikes. The jetbike thing comes from Sammael's fluff which states (taken from the Dark Angel codex 2006 edition, but I think this is still continued in later versions):
"At the time of the Horus Heresy, many Space Marine Chapters fielded jetbikes. these sleek craft allowed a single rider to soar across the battlefield at great speed, held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium. since those days the art of building and maintaining these craft has been all but forgotten by Humanity and it is regarded with superstition and distrust as the province of xenos races such as the Eldar and the Tau. The last of the Imperium's venerable "mark 14s" are thought to have been lost many centuries ago, and with them a glorious tradition of jet-cycle riding units stretching back to the days of the Great Crusade..." blah blah blah

On the other hand, the Custodes have them and grav vehicles in general are still definately a thing in the Imperium. Its probably just that the old Sammael fluff needs to be put to rest and smaller grav vehicles are just fine.

None of that precludes jetbikes existing though, only military-issue jetbikes that are presumably more rugged, robust designs, and capable of lugging Astartes. The way it is worded, it is the gravitic drives specifically that were difficult to build, but these are probably of an extremely powerful, tough, yet compact design suitable for military use.

Custodes didn't leave Terra for ten thousand years, so their jetbikes would not have featured until recently.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Potentially? Gangers with a wider selection of weapons. Such as a Basic Weapon, Pistols and CCW, making for a more flexible set of individuals.

I mean, all gangers can already have up to three weapons, so each and every one could have a basic weapon, a pistol and a CCW... I'm not sure how much more versatile would be to just add extra warm bodies to the mix.

I mean... I'm sure you could have a full roster of specific basic weapons and all, but... I can't see how that will be enough to beat someone who's just buying the killiest stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Counterpoint - with some of the kit that the Houses have access to, it would be like if the Hells Angels and the South Side Crips were running around fighting gang wars with railguns, antimatter grenades, and gigawatt lasers. It doesn't make very much sense. Its one thing to not be bound by limitations and dogma, its another thing to actually be capable of producing kit of a higher level of technology than the society you belong to at large.

Except Necromunda gangs aren't US street gangs they are PMCs. They are proxies of the noble houses who are their patrons. So rather than Crips, Bloods and Hell Angels replace your statements with IRA, PLO, Hezbollah, ISIS, HAMAS, the Contras, Shining Path, ad nasseum. Also Necromunda produces a lot of kit for the Imperium so if a few (thousand) units find their way into the hands of "gangs" it's still a rounding error especially as some houses like Van Saar are the manufacturers of said weaponry.

I was unaware the Imperium was producing Jetbikes, Hoverboards and Infinity-esque TAGs.

Seems you have to look into custodes and grey knights to see what's feasible for gangers.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Gangs are essentially PMC in 40K.

Add in Necromunda being a major arms manufacturer world, and it does make sense. You cream off a tiny percentage of your output for home use, and you end up with comparatively well armed soldiers, even those that act as Cats Paws.

And there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of absolutely bugger all preventing a given group placing a moratorium on stuff they don’t think fits.

Thing is, a lot of the stuff that the Necromunda houses are using isn't being manufactured for the Imperium at all. You can't "cream off a percentage" of something that isn't being produced. The implication here is the houses have their own secret factories producing kit that is arguably technologically superior to that of the Imperiums actual military forces.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 oni wrote:
This make me think of Earthworm Jim.
And the last Goliath "bike" is a ripoff from Halo
So I guess that's the design teams MO. Copy it from video games.
Necromunda seems to be getting a bit silly.

Necromunda has been getting a bit silly ever since someone decided that random gangers in the underhive should have more advanced and rarer tech than the vast majority of the Imperium's actual armies. Now it's just plain ludicrous.

I don't see how that's an issue. They're some of the wealthiest houses on Necromunda and aren't as bound by the limitations imposed by the rest of the Imperium. The Imperiums armie aren't meant to be equipped with the best - The logistics, bureaucracy, rules, Mechanicus's dogma etc that affect those aren't much of a factor for the Necromunda houses.

Black Library is non-canon and full of stuff that literally breaks the norms of the setting, so thats not a good argument. The "true canon", per GW itself, is whats published in publications by the design studio, and last I recall it said that the construction of jetbikes like that used by Samael of the Dark Angels and the Adeptus Custodes are basically a secret lost to time that the Imperium is incapable of replicating today. And yet, the roller-derby girls are blitzing around on them like its not big deal.

Black library is not "non-canon". It's just as canon as everything else is.

I think its more that GW's concept of canon is more one that they go for by aesthetics and feel rather than specific details and technicalities. Heck most BL books don't even describe many common things in detail - they give general details but never specifics. Which is honestly a touch smart as it means when GW updates the model it still fits into most stories unless they go really far off the original.


Plus because they've a long time line and a huge galaxy to play with they can have instances where two opposing views are perfectly accurate. Considering it can take years to travel across the Imperium its fully possible for technology to be "Lost to the Imperium" on one world and yet many systems over its commonplace technology.

chaos0xomega wrote:

The "true canon", per GW itself, is whats published in publications by the design studio.

This is not only untrue, but blatantly so. You're trying to put your headcanon in GW's mouth. Again.

Hell, GW declared the FFG books were canon. And even added places from them to the map in the main Codecies.

Cool jetbikes

 BaronIveagh wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The "true canon", per GW itself, is whats published in publications by the design studio.

This is not only untrue, but blatantly so. You're trying to put your headcanon in GW's mouth. Again.

Hell, GW declared the FFG books were canon. And even added places from them to the map in the main Codecies.

GW and BL brass have basically said as much in the past (okay, technically they said take what the design studio says as gospel and everything else as being subject to interpretation, but whatever, close enough). I suppose that may have been replaced with "everything is canon, not everything is true" or whatever more recently, but the point still stands. We know that Terminators can't do backflips, marines and eldar don't run around with multilasers as their primary weapon, (and marines most certainly don't rape eldar farseers to get their rocks off), etc. etc. etc. On an almost monthly basis something gets published in Black Library in direct contradiction to lore found in codexes and rulebooks. As these things both cannot be simultaneously true, one of them has to therefore be untrue (or, in more direct terms - not canon). Anyway, point is, just because a Black Library book says a civvie rides around on a jetbike for their morning commute to the skull farm doesn't mean its actually *true*.

Also, I'm going to need a source for your claim that GW declared FFGs books canon. Per ADB, the only sources officially authorized to create IP are and were Black Library, Games Workshop, and Forgeworld - he has specifically said in the past FFG were not included in this and that it wasn't clear exactly where things stood with FFG.

'Why yes, I do fly my giant engine covered in plasma guns around the extremely dusty and hazardous ash wastes while not wearing goggles'.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Also, I'm going to need a source for your claim that GW declared FFGs books canon. Per ADB, the only sources officially authorized to create IP are and were Black Library, Games Workshop, and Forgeworld - he has specifically said in the past FFG were not included in this and that it wasn't clear exactly where things stood with FFG.

There are far more controls in place with what GW does ever since the Goto Affair. Put simply, if GW doesn't want something published, it doesn't get published. If it gets published, it's because they're ok with it being part of 40k.

chaos0xomega wrote:
(okay, technically they said take what the design studio says as gospel and everything else as being subject to interpretation, ...

I would be curious as to just where this was said, and if it was, how many decades ago it was. Because I don't recall ever seeing anything from GW addressing what is and isn't canon beyond the very generic 'It's all canon and none of it is' statement from the Black Library guys.


But really, it's not particularly relevant, because the other fun thing about 40K 'canon' is that it changes. The art of jetbike building was said to be lost to the Imperium in older codexes, but the 6th edition DA codex mentions only that Sammy's bike is itself an ancient relic, and drops the part about jetbikes in general... presumably to allow for the introduction of the Custodes, but it also gives them some leeway elsewhere in the setting. Not to mention that the jetbikes being 'lost tech' while landspeeders still existed was always a little weird...

Combine that with the obvious tech level difference between Sammy's bike and the comparatively primitive flying turbines that they've created here for the Eschers, and I don't think there's a problem here.

The bike/ turbine engine rider looks pretty cool.

They honestly make me want to pick up a bunch of speeders, Old RT jetbikes, some flying wings, and Dark Eldar Scourge wings, Dark Eldar jet bikes, some Eldar jet bikes, and make a proper gang of them revolving around the gang leader riding the jet engine. Reminds me of the old Judge Dredd Flying bike/ Surf gangs.

I need to go back and read up[ on the make your own vehicle rules. I have a few flyer rider ideas, based on the Eldar's Viper and Jetbikes that would stand a chance for an outlaw gang.

Like the way they are going full Jet Girl with the rider.

SOMEONE needs to model up a flying rider with a cowboy hat, ALA Dr Strangelove.

Question- Is there a outlander Rogue Techpriest out there in the character lists?
Second Question- How many of those flying engines can you get for a gang?

I also understood the 'lost art' being that of producing new, relatively small antigrav capable of lifting armored Astartes aloft (and perhaps considerably higher aloft) and at great speed.

I didn't think 'antigrav' itself was lost, as Speeders, which can lift multiple Astartes, are possible. There's tons of very small antigrav, for things like servo skulls. There's plenty of relic antigrav for people with access to it, like Custodes.

I just thought that they were saying that mass-producing Astartes grade jetbikes was a lost art.

For all we know, Escher 'jetbikes' can't get much more than 3-4 feet off the ground, while Astartes Jetbikes may have been capable of altitudes of dozens or hundreds of feet.

I'm not crazy about the generally high level of tech available to people who can't consistently afford knives and gas masks, but that seems to be a lost battle already in Necromunda, where a gang of street ruffians can save up and buy a plasma cannon after one or two good hauls. I wish the Ash Wastes were a little more Mad-Max cobbled together promethium vehicles, but the dang thing does look cool as all hell.

Definitely like this jetbike. As far as the gangs being to well equipped compared to the Guard it happens all to frequently that the best the government can issue is not the best money can buy. Many cutting edge weapon systems and equipment like body armor were purchased and fielded using soldiers own money. During WWI you even had weapons like the BAR and Thompson SMG not issued to front line troops to prevent them from falling into enemy hands.

The Necromunda vehicles have really been an embarassment of riches for Ork players.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And there is nothing at all preventing you from running your gang that way if you so wish.

I mean, other than the rules, and being an donkey-cave for not letting other people play with the new toys, of course.

I can play by myself, but that's usually not very fun for a two players game.

But that wasn’t my claim there, was it? You can run a relatively low tech Gang if that’s your preference. Indeed you’re likely to end up more numerous than someone sinking Creds into higher tech, more powerful weapons.

And the game makes sure to have a ganger cap on the scenarios, so... what does that earn me, exactly?

There are a number of missions where your entire gang can enter play regardless of size.

Having many members also protects you from going into matches down fighters due to injury.

Lasgun/autogun spam is still one of the most powerful gang archetypes. Additionally, it comes online much quicker than some of the other power archetypes (and by now everybody should be familiar with the reality that a gang which does well early in a campaign can snowball into a top position).

So, yes, concentrating on having many low-geared fighters is a valid strategy, and you're not really giving much up by designing a gang that looks exactly like a powerful-in-game-Necromunda-gang would have looked like decades ago.

But the crux of your issue is here:

 Albertorius wrote:

I can play by myself, but that's usually not very fun for a two players game.

...you're more interested in running other peoples' gangs than running yours. Definitely entitled to that, but if it's the path you choose you should expect to do the legwork to find like-minded people.

 insaniak wrote:

I would be curious as to just where this was said, and if it was, how many decades ago it was. Because I don't recall ever seeing anything from GW addressing what is and isn't canon beyond the very generic 'It's all canon and none of it is' statement from the Black Library guys.

I would also like to know the source for that belief.

chaos0xomega is fond of quoting very "inside baseball" sources... sometimes I recognize them (reddit AMAs, Goonhammer interviews, etc.), but it really should be incumbent on a person to identify their source when they make an appeal to authority like that.

They needed to keep the art of jet bikes hidden off the books to prevent hoards of White Scars from requisitioning them.

Deleted

Da Butcha wrote:
I also understood the 'lost art' being that of producing new, relatively small antigrav capable of lifting armored Astartes aloft (and perhaps considerably higher aloft) and at great speed.

I didn't think 'antigrav' itself was lost, as Speeders, which can lift multiple Astartes, are possible. There's tons of very small antigrav, for things like servo skulls. There's plenty of relic antigrav for people with access to it, like Custodes.

I just thought that they were saying that mass-producing Astartes grade jetbikes was a lost art.

For all we know, Escher 'jetbikes' can't get much more than 3-4 feet off the ground, while Astartes Jetbikes may have been capable of altitudes of dozens or hundreds of feet.

I'm not crazy about the generally high level of tech available to people who can't consistently afford knives and gas masks, but that seems to be a lost battle already in Necromunda, where a gang of street ruffians can save up and buy a plasma cannon after one or two good hauls. I wish the Ash Wastes were a little more Mad-Max cobbled together promethium vehicles, but the dang thing does look cool as all hell.

I can think of a couple of reasons why jetbikes wouldn’t be widely issued to the military; from a sensible, real world POV, just because a bunch of gangers can cobble together a handful of working bikes, doesn’t make it cheap, safe reliable or supportable enough to be mass produced for the frontline (see Colin Furze’s hover bike. Or many of the other lunatic, potentially lethal things he produces!). In the insanity of 40K you also have to add in Mechanicum stamp of approval, which these things certainly do not have!

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
No comments on the Corpse Grinders weapons pack? In addition to being great for Necromunda, I think that they would be awesome on CSM models.

I think it's great. Also makes me hopeful that we might see the missing Ogryn Slave weapons sooner rather than later.

They should've made some grenade arms for the initiate, and some strap-on explosive. They also could use new sculpt honestly, Maybe female Initiate, or just more sculpt with better proportion and less stiff pose.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
No comments on the Corpse Grinders weapons pack? In addition to being great for Necromunda, I think that they would be awesome on CSM models.

I think it's great. Also makes me hopeful that we might see the missing Ogryn Slave weapons sooner rather than later.

Yeah, I reckon they'll just appear out the blue. Same for the Hive Scum, I reckon we'll get a bunch of generic weapons to equip them with

Hive Scum pretty much got most of the popular weapon option in the kit. Only weapons missing are maul, 2 handed axe and 2 handed hammer.

Chopstick wrote:
Hive Scum pretty much got most of the popular weapon option in the kit.

Yeah, but only one copy and one pose of each, per sprue.

On jet bikes, generally the Imperium restricts what it gives its own military, memories of the Horus Heresy are still fresh after all.

The IG could all have bolters and power armor but the Imperium chooses not to give it to them, reserving them for more trustworthy units. It's not hard to imagine that they limit jet bikes to a handful of units in order to keep them tied to the ground. Or that they suppressed jet bike tech for so long it has become almost lost.

Another possible way to go is that the Imperium needs equipment that can be used and repaired on (nearly) ever world and on pretty short notice. Perhaps Necromunda jet bikes rely on some quirk of the planet's magnetic field, or need some rare fuel or exotic mineral to work. The few Imperial jet bikes we see in operation have the advantage working anywhere. Desert worlds, the surface of asteroids, planet-sized factories, anywhere. While civilian made jet bikes crash outside of the environment they were built for.

It's not a great answer, the Ash Wastes are supposed to be a supremely hostile environment (though not so hostile as to require goggles, or dust masks, or covering your midriff) and gangs are supposed to building stuff out of discarded waste. But it is AN answer and can work with enough application of fluff.

The clan house vehicle are made in their house wasteland workshops. The gangs customize and maintain their ride, but they don't build it most of the time.

The Ash Wastes might be a wasteland, but its clear that the gangers that make it there have more resources than those at the very bottom of the Hive City itself.

Plus waste and rubbish are different things in different social setups. Necronmunda is a huge production site and each of the Gangs generally have those at least in the mid-tier manufacture sectors making stuff.

It's similar to how in something like Battle Angel Alita there's a huge settlement living off the rubbish of the higher-ups. That "rubbish" is things like cybernetic parts and more, which we today would consider super high tech, but which is waste in that setting.

Heck we do the very same thing, our waste junk phones and cars and such are shipped out to poorer nations where they are repaired, reconditioned and sold on again.

chaos0xomega wrote:

GW and BL brass have basically said as much in the past (okay, technically they said take what the design studio says as gospel and everything else as being subject to interpretation, but whatever, close enough). I suppose that may have been replaced with "everything is canon, not everything is true" or whatever more recently, but the point still stands. We know that Terminators can't do backflips, marines and eldar don't run around with multilasers as their primary weapon, (and marines most certainly don't rape eldar farseers to get their rocks off), etc. etc. etc. On an almost monthly basis something gets published in Black Library in direct contradiction to lore found in codexes and rulebooks. As these things both cannot be simultaneously true, one of them has to therefore be untrue (or, in more direct terms - not canon). Anyway, point is, just because a Black Library book says a civvie rides around on a jetbike for their morning commute to the skull farm doesn't mean its actually *true*.

Also, I'm going to need a source for your claim that GW declared FFGs books canon. Per ADB, the only sources officially authorized to create IP are and were Black Library, Games Workshop, and Forgeworld - he has specifically said in the past FFG were not included in this and that it wasn't clear exactly where things stood with FFG.

"Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex" - Marc Gascoigne, former Black Library Head, quoted by ADB. And, with Alan Merritt having directly overseen FFG's work, yes, it's cannon. Ask HBMC some time about the flaming hoops of bs they had to leap through *because* it was offical. The battle-cry for the Storm Wardens had to be revised almost 20 times because GW's IP managers were so far up FFG's ass over even the most inconsequential details.

 Flinty wrote:
held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium.

They had no problem with gravitic drives for speeders, hover tanks, and all the other ridiculous crap the space marines have, but they can't find them for jetbikes? Literally just use 1 from a repulsor and make it smaller...

Toofast wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium.

They had no problem with gravitic drives for speeders, hover tanks, and all the other ridiculous crap the space marines have, but they can't find them for jetbikes? Literally just use 1 from a repulsor and make it smaller...

My local Mechanicus Priest informs me that you can't simply make things smaller. The Machine Spirit can only be contained with a vessel of suitable size. Making the machine smaller would crush the spirit of the machine and cause it to wither and suffer. Such abuse of the Machine Spirit is not tolerable.

Toofast wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium.

They had no problem with gravitic drives for speeders, hover tanks, and all the other ridiculous crap the space marines have, but they can't find them for jetbikes? Literally just use 1 from a repulsor and make it smaller...

1st edition has suspensors (ripped straight out of Dune) that could be attached to any piece of equipment to make it weightless. If antigrav technology is now common place again,it’s a retcon of a retcon.

2nd Ed Space Marine. Flyers are introduced following Titan Legions. Because The Imperium had just rediscovered powered flight, hence the game hadn’t had flyers in it before.

 Overread wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium.

They had no problem with gravitic drives for speeders, hover tanks, and all the other ridiculous crap the space marines have, but they can't find them for jetbikes? Literally just use 1 from a repulsor and make it smaller...

My local Mechanicus Priest informs me that you can't simply make things smaller. The Machine Spirit can only be contained with a vessel of suitable size. Making the machine smaller would crush the spirit of the machine and cause it to wither and suffer. Such abuse of the Machine Spirit is not tolerable.

Magos Cawl disagrees.

SamusDrake wrote:
Getting Phantom Menace podracing vibes here. Pop two of them together, then a chariot behind them then cables connecting them. That would be a nice kitbash project.

Or go the other way and kit bash some Escher jet bikes from Star Wars pod racers.



Might be something that could be done with the Micro Machines versions as well.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I'm not too familiar with the smaller details of Necromunda lore, I could understand Van Saar and even to a lesser extent Delaque having anti-grav tech vehicles, but does it make much sense for Escher? Is it not something meant to be relatively rare?

because van saar sell their Antigrav generators everywhere。。。

Exactly, yes. Rare, but less rare for Van Saar.
Van Saar makes the weapons and equment for the hive. They keep some just for themselves, but expensive stuff, they can make a nice profit on.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
held aloft by gravitic drives the like of which are long lost to the Techpriests of the 41st Millenium.

They had no problem with gravitic drives for speeders, hover tanks, and all the other ridiculous crap the space marines have, but they can't find them for jetbikes? Literally just use 1 from a repulsor and make it smaller...

1st edition has suspensors (ripped straight out of Dune) that could be attached to any piece of equipment to make it weightless. If antigrav technology is now common place again,it’s a retcon of a retcon.

Current 40k still has suspensors in Killteam as equipment for Marines to reduce the penalty for moving with heavy weapons.

So I don't know if it's been outright stated how they work but it certainly seems to still function by reducing weight

Suspensors are either extra arm that hold the weapons or mechanical rigs fit into the wielder. Like the Orlock heavy weapon.

Lots of Goliath weapons are supported by a suspensor, allowing them to wield it and fire in 1 hand, although these are not supported in rules.

Chopstick wrote:
Suspensors are either extra arm that hold the weapons or mechanical rigs fit into the wielder. Like the Orlock heavy weapon.

Lots of Goliath weapons are supported by a suspensor, allowing them to wield it and fire in 1 hand, although these are not supported in rules.

Eh, no.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Suspensor

Also important to note that Escher are not normal humans. They're usually pumped full of performance enhancing drugs of all sorts. The extreme environment of Necromunda also brings forth people who are beyond normal. Then there's no respect for human lives, so they're willing to have a bunch of drug enhanced adrenaline junkies ride jet engines if it gives them an advantage. Also Necromunda is a factory planet, they're probably using discarded parts from the jet engine assembly lines.

And honestly, I'd rather have the rule of cool over adhering too strictly to whatever loose canon there is. If anything, 40k stagnated under all the self imposed restrictions to decades old writing.

If you have a problem with their lack of masks, then there's probably a forge world upgrade kit coming for Escher, just like there is for Orlocks.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Also important to note that Escher are not normal humans.

Neither are Goliaths. Or even Delaque these days.

Necromunda ain't what it used to be...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
Also important to note that Escher are not normal humans.

Neither are Goliaths. Or even Delaque these days.

Necromunda ain't what it used to be...

Current Necromunda is the hobby game that rich nobles in the Spire play to while away the hours, based on wildly exaggerated caricatures of downhivers they've heard from friends of friends of friends. "Those scum down there are barely even human! But they have exquisite and expensive toys, because I demand standards in my entertainment, what!"

Meanwhile, actual Eschers and Delaques and Goliaths sigh and drink their Wildsnake before heading out to scrag the neighbours' water still and teach them a lesson for what they did to Fred.

It's like how the original Starwing (Starfox) on Super Nintendo was about the grim and serious actual war, while Lylat Wars (Starfox 64) was the family-friendly action movie the survivors made about it afterward.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
Also important to note that Escher are not normal humans.

Neither are Goliaths. Or even Delaque these days.

Necromunda ain't what it used to be...

And it never was.

You can always play Nostalgiamunda any time you want. You’re free to dislike parts of Newcromunda (I doubt anyone likes everything). But this is the currently supported game and it seems to sell, so accept it for what it is or enjoy a retro campaign. There is no point in tilting at windmills, the old gangs aren’t going to revert to their ‘90s origins.

And remember for every one of you who is upset with what became of their classic gang, there are people like me who switched from team Escher to team Van Saar because of those changes. I also like the new Delaque; sorry-not sorry.

Now Baxx bitching about rules typos and poor organization, no easy way to get in without a guide—I’m on board that train.

Let's stick to the news and the rumours in topic eh?

New Goliath Forgeboss.





Front on, I don’t like it. There’s something just a bit off about the pose, like it’s been kitbashed and the angles don’t quite line up.

Could just be viewing angle. Could be the paint job, as the eyes don’t seem to be looking down the gun right.

Quite like the rear view though. Bionic arm and the axe are sweet.

Ninja'd!

The New Goliath Forge Boss is Coming to Renderize the Entire Underhive



Oh, and:

WarCom wrote:* You may think he has too many weapons but the Goliath gene-smiths have been hard at work to ensure their muscle-bound fighters can carry even more equipment, as you’ll see in an Apocrypha Necromunda very soon.

Should've give him a face with beard.

And that axe is ugly.

I think it’s the gun strap, angle and paint job.

With the strap and skin being similar tones (at least to my eyes), it makes the torso look bulked out on that side, and the axe head stops us seeing the other arm and toro side.

Combi-Bolt Pistol/Hand Flamer.
Combi-Bolter/Grenade Launcher.

I'm surprise his axe isn't a combi-weapon.

Great. A Goliath nobody needs and I could do a better job of kitbashing myself. How about minis for all of those guild delegations and Noble House patrons that don’t have minis yet instead?

Man, that is FUGLY!

A lolt of Forgeworld miniatures look kinda wonky to me these days.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New Goliath Forgeboss.





Front on, I don’t like it. There’s something just a bit off about the pose, like it’s been kitbashed and the angles don’t quite line up.

Could just be viewing angle. Could be the paint job, as the eyes don’t seem to be looking down the gun right.

Quite like the rear view though. Bionic arm and the axe are sweet.

Can´t unsee it now. Models not looking where the gun is aimed at is a serious offense in tabletop gaming.

I hope it is just a wonky angle. The rest is definitely paint job, as the gun straps, armour straps and skin tone all being similar kind of blends things into one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Combi-Bolt Pistol/Hand Flamer.
Combi-Bolter/Grenade Launcher.

I'm surprise his axe isn't a combi-weapon.

It's a combi-axe (or possibly combi-chain-axe), HBMC, in the same way that Chaos Terminators get combi-bolters...

The gun strap goes under the shoulder pad look odd, the shoulder pads are strapped to the suspender belts but the gun strap overlap the belt.

What the hell is that pose.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
What the hell is that pose.

Cheesy McBoring shoots a pistol while holding an axe.
Its...a basic goliath ganger from the original box set with five more layers of cruft and 'bling.'

Someone was a clear fan of digital sculpting layers.

He's got the flattest pose, most awkward imaginable, he's got a loadout that no sane man would ever give him, the shoulder strap is under his shoulderpad, he's not even remotely looking where his gun is pointed.


My God.

Surely a bolter/grenade launcher is a bit redundant in terms of weapon effect also it’s entertaining that the gl calibre appears to be less than the bolter. Unless it’s a stub cannon rather than a gl.

Egh. The paint job isn't doing him many favours, granted. The Dwayne Johnson resemblance is a little unnerving.

FW seem to have a preoccupation with making sure every weapon option from the main gang lists is available, but as a slow, slow trickle of questionable choices. Which is weird, since the Escher champs weapons set seemed a better way to do it. Maybe it didn't sell. So bolt pistol/hand flamer and bolter/grenade launcher are now covered, but on the same model. While most of the other combi-weapons were only available as part of the out-of-print resin weapon upgrades, and (presuming this one releases solo with no options) there is still no missile launcher, no multi-melta...

Let the people kitbash and get on with the alliance delegations.

 Flinty wrote:
Surely a bolter/grenade launcher is a bit redundant in terms of weapon effect also it’s entertaining that the gl calibre appears to be less than the bolter. Unless it’s a stub cannon rather than a gl.

Tell that to the Primaris


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also damn FW for wasting a Necromunda release slot on something that you could really easily kitbash on your own, and probably have it look better, tbh.

You know they had underslung grenade launcher attached to assasult rifle in real life.

Presented without comment.

Actually, I lie, I will comment. I made this, but prefer the 90s plastic Goliath’s sculpt. A phrase I have never uttered before!

It lacks heart. Like the gang boss is just going through the motions because dealing with incompetent underlings on a daily basis is about as soul destroying as the TPS reports to upper management after. It's like he just sighed, picked up his chain axe and mutters about why pay anyone when he has to do it himself...

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Presented without comment.

Actually, I lie, I will comment. I made this, but prefer the 90s plastic Goliath’s sculpt. A phrase I have never uttered before!

Take your exault, you've earned it!

The model is bloated and anti-synergetic. The axe is two-handed so can't be combined with the pistol in close combat. That could be circumvented by getting biceps skill. That's a very low-tier skill so comes at a cost of a really good skill that would actually boost this character. The bolter is always better to shoot with so no need for the bolt pistol. On the contrary, since it is combi, the flamer part will run out of ammo sooner. Then there are frag launcher and hand flamer. And not enough weapon slots to hold all of that (the axe takes 2 weapon slots). Could be circumvented by suspensor harness at the cost of 40 credits. Instead there will now be new genesmithing options? On top of the 30 already existing. And this is competing with top-tier stuff like +1 Wounds and/or Toughness. The minimum cost WYSIWYG is 370 credits. Not counting future genesmithing options to make it legal. 415 if including the bionic arm. GW recommends adding a 130 credits sumpkroc on top.

The whole weapon slot limitation is kinda a joke anyway. Load up a single character with all the special weapons, combi-weapons and two-handed close combat weapons you want. That's not exactly the road to victory. Can still look cool though.

Chopstick wrote:
You know they had underslung grenade launcher attached to assasult rifle in real life.

I realise this, but they are typically used to provide explosive heavy fire support in addition to the solid round assault rifles of the squad. Bolt guns already provide explosive heavy fire, making the grenade launcher somewhat redundant. I guess the ability to launch krak and other specialist load outs make it worthwhile.

That is one bland model.

I wonder if the whole nonsense right arm assemblage is a separate piece with the standard joint from the plastic kits. Take that away and maybe do something about the head and you have a decent basis for a high-ranking Goliath, I think.

If the combibolter is moulded to his side, though, yeesh.

 Flinty wrote:

I realise this, but they are typically used to provide explosive heavy fire support in addition to the solid round assault rifles of the squad. Bolt guns already provide explosive heavy fire, making the grenade launcher somewhat redundant. I guess the ability to launch krak and other specialist load outs make it worthwhile.

Frag adds blast which boltgun doesn't have. While frag is quite insignificant in Necromunda, it includes the magic keyword blast which grants a lot of loopholes to avoid pitch black, target priority and various special rules preventing targeting fighters (hey Corpse Grinder Cult!). It doesn't include krak however, not sure if it can be purchased separately. Ironically krak overlaps boltgun since both are medium/high strength with Damage 2. Boltgun however got rapid fire, while krak is single round with better strength.

Baxx wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

I realise this, but they are typically used to provide explosive heavy fire support in addition to the solid round assault rifles of the squad. Bolt guns already provide explosive heavy fire, making the grenade launcher somewhat redundant. I guess the ability to launch krak and other specialist load outs make it worthwhile.

Frag adds blast which boltgun doesn't have. While frag is quite insignificant in Necromunda, it includes the magic keyword blast which grants a lot of loopholes to avoid pitch black, target priority and various special rules preventing targeting fighters (hey Corpse Grinder Cult!). It doesn't include krak however, not sure if it can be purchased separately. Ironically krak overlaps boltgun since both are medium/high strength with Damage 2. Boltgun however got rapid fire, while krak is single round with better strength.

Sorry, I am drifting randomly through real life comparisons, that I should keep out of the N&R thread. I just thought that adding an explosive projectile weapon to an existing explosive projectile weapon seemed a bit redundant. Understand there are game rule purposes that make it relevant.

 Flinty wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

I realise this, but they are typically used to provide explosive heavy fire support in addition to the solid round assault rifles of the squad. Bolt guns already provide explosive heavy fire, making the grenade launcher somewhat redundant. I guess the ability to launch krak and other specialist load outs make it worthwhile.

Frag adds blast which boltgun doesn't have. While frag is quite insignificant in Necromunda, it includes the magic keyword blast which grants a lot of loopholes to avoid pitch black, target priority and various special rules preventing targeting fighters (hey Corpse Grinder Cult!). It doesn't include krak however, not sure if it can be purchased separately. Ironically krak overlaps boltgun since both are medium/high strength with Damage 2. Boltgun however got rapid fire, while krak is single round with better strength.

Sorry, I am drifting randomly through real life comparisons, that I should keep out of the N&R thread. I just thought that adding an explosive projectile weapon to an existing explosive projectile weapon seemed a bit redundant. Understand there are game rule purposes that make it relevant.

I know bolt shells explode, but I’ve never imagined they explode like grenades explode. More like they just really make a mess of the one thing they hit.

Bolt shells only explode once they're inside a target - hence 'mass reactive'. In terms of hitting stuff they're just really big bullets. Frag grenades are quite different - you shoot them through windows and doors to winkle targets out of cover etc.

Cover is a target. Mass is mass. Also the old OICW system was based on a 20mm explosive shell that could be programmed to explode just after it passed over intervening cover to do some top-attack action. As soon as you start running large calibre explosive shells in a high-technology environment, needing a separate grenade system starts to lose utility, especially given the wide range of bolt shells that apparently exist. However, in-game there are specific game mechanics that make it worthwhile.

I'm pretty sure the grenade launcher is supposed to be firing considerably larger shells, something like 40mm vs the .7 or so calibre of the boltgun (around 20mm). That is a massive increase in volume of explosive, esp. as the grenade launcher is probably lower velocity with a thinner-walled shell.

Part of the reason the OICW was dropped is the small shell didn't have enough explosive power to warrant the weight.

Basically, bolt rounds are armour piercing rounds with an explosive core to increase damage after penetration, similar to battleship armour piercing shells (but miniaturised with a rocket propulsion). Grenade launcher rounds are HE or probably HEAT for the krak grenades. Quite different intentions.

Mass reactive means that it litteraly reacts to mass not that it can tell when it's in a body.
If it hits anything with sufficient mass it explodes.

The boltgun is a heavier, shootie-wound weapon, it doesn't work like a grenade launcher.

Grenade Launcher- Blast template. It'll jam on you, and/ or blow up your own guys, that'll work like 50/ 50 percent of the time, unless you've got the skills to offset Special weapons... idiosyncrasies..

Boltgun, you'll be rolling Ammo Rolls all day, anyway.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/29/two-outlaws-one-kill-fist-no-mercy-new-goliath-hired-guns-come-to-necromunda/

New lads for the boys Much better, cool axe too. Still no beard head :(

The combi-plas looks great.

These are significantly better than the previous guy

It does indeed look ace.

But now I’m wondering how come it’s always Bolter/Something for a Combi-weapon.

I mean, not a criticising wondering, just as “huh, how come” wondering.

No-Neck and Long-Neck to the rescue!!!

Still only two guild retinues and one noble house representative has models.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It does indeed look ace.

But now I’m wondering how come it’s always Bolter/Something for a Combi-weapon.

I mean, not a criticising wondering, just as “huh, how come” wondering.

It's their theme. Other gangs have other combis.

I love the chainsaw mohawk.

The commercial repeats the current setting, outlaw/outcast & ash wastes, but the bases look like these were modelled for good old hive.

Baxx wrote:
The commercial repeats the current setting, outlaw/outcast & ash wastes, but the bases look like these were modelled for good old hive.

Because these were supposed to come out earlier, but it's easier to change the copy than the base.

Kill-Fist.

His name is Kill-Fist.


Uh huh.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kill-Fist.

His name is Kill-Fist.


Uh huh.

Should've gone with Kill-Fister, or better yet Kill-Fisto.

I can guarantee 10% more sales and 1000% more social media engagement.

Don't forget to like and subscribe for more marketing tips!

Zenithfleet wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
Also important to note that Escher are not normal humans.

Neither are Goliaths. Or even Delaque these days.

Necromunda ain't what it used to be...

Current Necromunda is the hobby game that rich nobles in the Spire play to while away the hours, based on wildly exaggerated caricatures of downhivers they've heard from friends of friends of friends. "Those scum down there are barely even human! But they have exquisite and expensive toys, because I demand standards in my entertainment, what!"

Meanwhile, actual Eschers and Delaques and Goliaths sigh and drink their Wildsnake before heading out to scrag the neighbours' water still and teach them a lesson for what they did to Fred.

It's like how the original Starwing (Starfox) on Super Nintendo was about the grim and serious actual war, while Lylat Wars (Starfox 64) was the family-friendly action movie the survivors made about it afterward.

I like this take.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kill-Fist.
His name is Kill-Fist.

Uh huh.

Should've gone with Kill-Fister, or better yet Kill-Fisto.
I can guarantee 10% more sales and 1000% more social media engagement.
Don't forget to like and subscribe for more marketing tips!

I don't play Necromunda (I just buy the terrain really), and if I did I wouldn't play Goliath (Cawdor, Delaque, and Van Saar are more my jam) - but if they named it Kill-Fisto I would 100% have bought it.

 Olthannon wrote:
I love the chainsaw mohawk.

I wonder if it'll do anything in the game, or whether it is purely there for aesthetic value.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kill-Fist.

His name is Kill-Fist.


Uh huh.

Should've gone with Kill-Fister, or better yet Kill-Fisto.

I can guarantee 10% more sales and 1000% more social media engagement.

Don't forget to like and subscribe for more marketing tips!

Doctor Fistenstein

 Malika2 wrote:
No-Neck and Long-Neck to the rescue!!!

He clearly donated his neck to his friend, so that way he could have an ironjaw but also show off his charming smile.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I love the chainsaw mohawk.

I wonder if it'll do anything in the game, or whether it is purely there for aesthetic value.

Goliaths have had chain-hawks since their plastic sprue (and one metal dude from back in the day) that have had no mechanical bonus, so I think this will be same.

Maybe that derpy champion last week was a reject sculpt for the project that birthed these guys? Both of them are decent enough.

There are already different named Goliath house agents and bounty hunters in House of Chains, with no models, but whatever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I know this is the potentially the dreaded "maybe it isn't FW" comment (sorry) but are these obviously resin? I don't have an eye for that. If they are moving to narrative expansions in Necromunda then perhaps they might start doing special characters in plastic (other than Kal Jericho).

There's a first...

They showed some of the guys from the upcoming campaign book, before the book is out. O.o

 Grot 6 wrote:
There's a first...

They showed some of the guys from the upcoming campaign book, before the book is out. O.o

And we're getting a 'Killfist' model before the existing 'Gunfists' hired gun!

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
There's a first...

They showed some of the guys from the upcoming campaign book, before the book is out. O.o

And we're getting a 'Killfist' model before the existing 'Gunfists' hired gun!

I guess.... Who comes up with those brilliant names? That's something I'd expect out of a kindergartener.

I see the first guy and keep hearing the short lady from Incredibles screaming "No Capes" as he gets pulled into some industrial machinery and blenderized.

For the Killfist guy - if it just had a few pistons, it could do a plausible Hulkbuster Ironman "go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep".

I also don't see how he swings that maul. Seems like the excessive length would get in the way, and his other hand definitely isn't free to help.

According to my analysis that guy is on *checks notes* ah yes, all of the drugs. I don’t think he particularly notices

Addendum - he also has a chainsaw on his head. Practicality of weapons may well be low on his list of priorities.

As for the name?

They’re Goliaths. You’re simply not going to get Lord Percival Cecil Smythington-Throat Warbler-Mangrove-Smith-Smythe-Smith, are you?

The Clan House respect strength. Get a bloody big meat pounder of a fist, kill a bunch of people with it, and you’ve got your name right there.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You’re simply not going to get Lord Percival Cecil Smythington-Throat Warbler-Mangrove-Smith-Smythe-Smith, are you?

Nor are you going to get Sir Strawington Mann.

My Goliath Boss was Clarance, just so you know.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You’re simply not going to get Lord Percival Cecil Smythington-Throat Warbler-Mangrove-Smith-Smythe-Smith, are you?

Nor are you going to get Sir Strawington Mann.

Well……you kind of can.



WWE Wrestler Brain “Monster Among Men” Strowman. Which is a pretty House Goliath name.